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Pull up a seat at our table, where badass women from all walks of life—fashion, beauty, design, music, philanthropy, art, and more—come together to share honest stories, serve truths, and dig into the realities of modern womanhood.
Johanna Almstead:
Hello, everyone. I am menu planning for my next guest and I'm super excited to have her. And I'm going to go kind of traditional, not that different than what I make a lot of the time, but I feel like this is... I make some version of this for her almost every time, or we cook this together when we're together. I know she loves it and I know that it'll make her really happy. So I'm going to start with a charcuterie board, big, beautiful charcuterie boards with some beautiful salamis. She just loves all of the salami, the soppressata, the hams, the sausages, all of that, and some really nice yummy cheeses. We're going to do some pickled veggies, giardiniera. We're going to do some beautiful olives, like a few different kinds of olives and some nice, there's this pierogi dough bread where they bake the pierogi dough into the bread with, I think, some cheese at a bakery near me. I'm going to get some of that.
And with all this yummy, salty meat and cheese, I'm going to make her a martini, I think. I can't remember if I've made her my recipe that I've perfected of the best martini ever. So I'm going to make her a martini. I'm going to start with that. And then I'm going to go classic kind of New York steakhouse vibes for dinner. I know she loves a big, beautiful steak. So I'm going to do a big New York strip. I'm going to do a bunch of really good sides. I'm going to do some roasted asparagus with a little Parmesan crusted on top. I'm going to do some sauteed mushrooms with garlic and oil. I'm going to do a potato gratin this time, like a kind of baked, not super creamy, but just a potato gratin or maybe a dauphinoise, something like that.
And then I am going to do a kind of wintery-fall version of a salad that I like to make. I'm going to do kale, roasted acorn squash, a little bit of goat cheese, a little bit of maybe dried cranberry and some roasted pecans. It's like kind of melding two of the salads that I've made for her before into one. And with dinner, I'm going to open a giant delicious Barolo, just like a big red to have with our juicy steak and all of our yummy sides. And for music, I'm really into Donny Hathaway right now. Maybe a little Dusty Springfield. Got to sprinkle in some Olivia Dean again because I'm very into her right now. Maybe some Leon Bridges, just like good groovy vibes just to make the night perfect.
My next guest is, I feel very, very, very lucky that I got to nab her when I could. She is hilarious. She is kind. She is powerful. She is strong. She is smart. She is a good, good human. And I'm pretty sure you're all going to be inspired by her. So I can't wait for you to meet her. Let's dig in.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Eat My Words. I'm super happy today because I have someone who is a dear friend, a former colleague and a member of my own personal board of directors. And I've been trying to make her do this for a really long time. She is a seasoned retail executive with 30 years of experience in the fashion industry. She's worked for incredible brands like the Gap, Kate Spade, Jack Spade, Tory Burch, and SoulCycle. She spent this last seven years at the Inimitable. I got the word right, Inimitable, Bergdorf Goodman, as their chief retail officer.
She is a leader, a merchant, a people person, and a trusted steward of many of the brands she has worked at. She served on the board of Pret a Manger during its growth period in the US and is an executive board member of the Fifth Avenue Association where she applies her great passion for shaping the future of Fifth Avenue. She is also a daughter, a sister, and an incredibly supportive friend who is not afraid to give me a little feedback sometimes. Melissa Xides, welcome to Eat My Words.
Melissa Xides:
Uh-oh. Hi, Jo. Thanks for the intro.
Johanna Almstead:
Thank you for being here.
Melissa Xides:
Uh-oh.
Johanna Almstead:
Thank you for taking the time out of what I know is a very full life, full, busy time of year. Thank you for being here.
Melissa Xides:
Well, you got me at the perfect time. I'm in fun employment mode for four weeks. I'm in between jobs, so it's like serendipitous right now.
Johanna Almstead:
I know.
Melissa Xides:
And so, way to grab me during this time.
Johanna Almstead:
Don't think I didn't strike while the iron was hot, or strike while the iron was actually cold when you were-
Melissa Xides:
I had no notice on this. When? Tomorrow? Okay.
Johanna Almstead:
Great. Perfect. You're done. Yes. So I did get to grab you on this teeny little break that you have between two crazy big jobs, which is exciting and not your usual daily life. You're like, "Oh, no, now I do podcasts in my free time."
Melissa Xides:
One and only and only for you.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, so let's talk about that for a second. How's it feel like to take a break for a minute? I mean, you're not taking a huge break, but how does it feel because you are a worker bee. So I'd love to know how you're spending your days right now.
Melissa Xides:
Oh, my gosh, it feels amazing. Well, first off, it's the first December I've had off in 30 years. Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
That's right.
Melissa Xides:
Isn't that unreal? I mean, literally, I've never had a December off. I've been working retail for 30 years and it's always been my busy month. And I am a geek of all things Christmas and retail, believe it or not. And so to have this month off, my last day was the day before Thanksgiving is really a joy. And I'm a mom of a 10-year-old Eleanor. And so to really be able to squeeze this time, we're both Christmas geeks, and so just to be able to do all the things has been amazing. Amazing.
Johanna Almstead:
You're just like a consumer. How's that?
Melissa Xides:
I am. I am.
Johanna Almstead:
You're just a Christmas consumer this year.
Melissa Xides:
I mean, well, the first week, my body sort of shut down. So I have this rasp in my voice because my body decided to just break down on me last week and that was like-
Johanna Almstead:
I'm sure.
Melissa Xides:
And then now I'm in listful stage and we're going to Wicked tonight. We are going to the opera on Thursday. We had the Christmas Spectacular on Monday. We just have an incredible lineup. And so I'm super excited before I start the new gig to have this time with her.
Johanna Almstead:
Amazing. Oh, what great timing for all this. That's so exciting.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. I'm very excited and feel lucky.
Johanna Almstead:
So I always like to tell people how we know each other because it's always fun and people always ask. And so we worked at the same company for seven years plus, I think, and we always worked very well together and navigated some hard conversations which are normal in the fashion world between merchant and PR person or retail side, buyer side, retail side and PR person. And I feel like we always got through that stuff and we always work-
Melissa Xides:
We want the polka dot bag.
Johanna Almstead:
Exactly.
Melissa Xides:
No, we want the black bag.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm like, "No, we need the elephant shaped clutch."
Melissa Xides:
Right. Right.
Johanna Almstead:
And we would travel together for events sometimes on behalf of the brand to cities around the US. And I was remembering one of the first meals I ever had with you, actually. I don't even know if you knew who I was. I was very new at the company. We were in Chicago, for a store event in Chicago. I was traveling with my then boss and we went to dinner at the Ralph Lauren Restaurant. Do you remember this?
Melissa Xides:
Oh, yeah, I remember.
Johanna Almstead:
You do? Okay.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. We have the event and wasn't Tim Gunn there?
Johanna Almstead:
I think it was a Tim Gunn event. Yes.
Melissa Xides:
I think it was a Tim Gunn event. And I remember we had a line down the block of the Kate Spade store and I dropped a fixture on my toe two seconds before the event.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes.
Melissa Xides:
And I was sitting in the back with almost like a broken toe and Tim was like, "What happened?"
Johanna Almstead:
Yes.
Melissa Xides:
But we went to the Ralph Lauren Restaurant and that was my first time there actually. And I've been back many, many times since because it's one of my favorites, but it was a great meal.
Johanna Almstead:
It was. And I was thinking about how my boss at the time looked at me. We were looking at the menu and I was used to entertaining editors who are not known for their big appetites or their freedom of eating. And I was looking at the menu, trying to figure out, and she looks up to me and she kind of whispers. She goes, "Don't worry. This crew likes to eat." And I was like, "Oh, perfect."
Melissa Xides:
And there I ordered the steak. Right.
Johanna Almstead:
Totally [inaudible 00:08:22] like steak, it could be, baked potatoes and we like all this.
Melissa Xides:
That sounds accurate.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. There we go. So I was like, "Oh, this is going to be good. I'm going to like these people. This is going to be all right."
Melissa Xides:
And we're still eating together.
Johanna Almstead:
I know. We get to have beautiful meals together all the time.
Melissa Xides:
All these years later, yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I know. So I was thinking about that. I'm like, we got to work together and then we got to be friends. Actually, we got closer, I feel like, after we left the company.
Melissa Xides:
We did, yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
And we get to do long, rowdy dinners together and gorgeous weekends at your beautiful home in Long Island. And soon you'll be coming to my new home for cozy weekends with lots of yummy food.
Melissa Xides:
I cannot even wait.
Johanna Almstead:
So yes, it's been funny, but I was thinking back, I'm like, we've shared a lot of meals and that was like the kickoff to our eating relationship.
Melissa Xides:
It really was. We've had some great times together. Gosh, that was a while ago.
Johanna Almstead:
That was a long time ago. What a wild ride it has been. So I always like to ask this question because it always fascinates me to see where people start, but where would you say your journey began?
Melissa Xides:
I think my journey began when I was growing up and I never... In hindsight, I think I didn't realize I was going to go in retail, but I grew up with a mother in retail. And so my mother spent 30 plus years in retail herself in department stores. She worked at Abraham & Strauss and Saks Fifth Avenue. And so I would be 10 years old and I would go and she was also a single mom. And so she would bring me for childcare to sit in her office all day and put me to work. I would do like damages and things like that in the back of the stockroom of Abraham & Strauss. And so I think I just got it in my blood, but then she always tried to convince me to not go to retail.
Johanna Almstead:
Really?
Melissa Xides:
So when I went to college, yeah, believe it or not, I studied biology. So I did bio-
Johanna Almstead:
How did I not know that?
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. I was going to more from bio into sports medicine. I was always an athlete growing up. And then I went away to college and didn't love it. And so I came back and went to Hunter College locally and found myself taking a part-time job in the Gap at 54th and Madison, which is no longer there for 5.25 an hour. And so I was working-
Johanna Almstead:
$5.25.
Melissa Xides:
$5.25 an hour.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, my god, that's amazing. Okay.
Melissa Xides:
And I think the journey began with my mother because fast forward to that time at the Gap, here I am getting keys to the store within six months. It was a $5 million store and they're like, "You could be a manager." I went from doing fitting rooms, seller, sales associate into management and found myself on this managerial fast track with the gap. And so I think the journey in retrospect started because I had retail on my bones. I grew up with a retail mom my whole life.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. My grandpa was a traveling shoe salesman. And I always say, I was like, "I still work in shoes."
Melissa Xides:
Did he carry the shoes from door to door?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Yeah. And he always had a nicer car than my grandma because he had to drive into people's driveways. And so my mother, who was a feminist, always thought that that was kind of mean that my grandma didn't have this nice up car. But he had a fancy car.
Melissa Xides:
I hope she used it on the weekends.
Johanna Almstead:
And he would have pieces of shoes and would show up at your doorstep and measure your foot and stuff. It's crazy.
Melissa Xides:
Isn't that crazy? I mean, I remember buying encyclopedias from the door. My mother bought encyclopedias from the guy at the door. So yeah, I remember those days.
Johanna Almstead:
It's crazy. So I just learned recently at a party that we were both at how quick your trajectory was when you were at the Gap. You went from this entry level part-time employee at 5.25 an hour to assistant manager or manager very quickly. Were you always very driven or was this just something that came so easily to you and you were like, "I might as well just go and do it"?
Melissa Xides:
I really loved it very quickly. So I think it came easy. And I think first before the people development piece or people leadership piece was store standards. I maniacally clean, I love neat spaces. And so that was back in the day. Mickey Drexler loved a incredible looking store and I got known for like my denim walls and my khaki walls and my perfect folding with tissue, and I was really great at it. And so I think that was first and foremost like merchant, visual merchant standards and... Yeah, so I just spent six months doing that, but I wound up spending 10 years at the Gap. And I guess I became a store manager probably after year one. And mind you, I was going to college full time. So I had switched from Hunter to Baruch because I learned that I wanted to be a business management major and wound up graduating from Baruch with the business degree.
But what was great about the Gap was that they had tuition reimbursement. And so they wound up paying for college and I wound up taking 17 credits on Tuesdays and Thursdays. So I squeezed. I went from 9 o'clock in the morning to 9 o'clock at night taking 17 credits. And then on the other five days I was working full time as a store manager. And I wound up spending three years going to school doing that until I ultimately graduated college and really wound up going on the fast track from district manager to regional manager and so far. And then also, I think the claim to fame while I was on that 10-year run was always in flagship stores. I worked for incredible leaders. I'll give Carrie a shout out now, but she was one of my early incredible leaders.
But I worked for incredible leaders and they always wanted impeccable store standards with great people. It was like the epitome of what Gap was. And so I wound up running their flagships for them, 34th and Broadway, which was the number one store in the world and 54th and 5th, which was a brand new flagship. It was a number two or three store in the world and even got shipped to San Francisco and ran the flood building. It was influencing how the San Francisco region would run when they needed to really revive the Gap in those days. So it was an incredible 10-year run.
Johanna Almstead:
Wow. It's funny. First of all, I didn't know that the Gap did tuition reimbursement. How amazing is that? That's so cool.
Melissa Xides:
Yes. Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
And it's become a theme on this podcast and I think it might be like a fashion industry, a little bit of a funny, specific to the fashion industry of all these people who started working before they graduated college. And they were already in the industry and they were just like getting through college to do college, but they were like, "I'm already working. I've got my boots on the ground. I'm out there."
Melissa Xides:
Totally. I mean, I was a horrible student. I would finish the semester and cellophane would still be on my books. It was bad. I hope Eleanor will never listen to this podcast, but I was not a good student. I got by, but my real skills were in working and I was really ready to work, but I knew I needed the degree and so did both. But yeah, couldn't wait to get going.
Johanna Almstead:
And it's funny that those are the skill... You had this entire other skillset that was like, you were skyrocketing and you didn't have the skillset to be a nice student. It's funny.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah, definitely not. Definitely not. But I started working, I mean, not to pivot, but my first job was when I was I think 14, while I was doing babysitting and then my first job was like 14 in the church rectory. And I remember friends coming to visit and the fridge was filled with snacks and sodas and they would all come and visit me while I was like manning the rectory.
Johanna Almstead:
I love it. Oh, god, that's so good.
Melissa Xides:
So I loved making money early on, I guess, is the story.
Johanna Almstead:
You've always been very financially savvy, I feel like.
Melissa Xides:
I like nice things. And so I do like to make money. And that's growing up with a single mom and she bought a house and she really always taught me to work hard and play hard and be my own person when it comes to financials. So yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Did she teach you actual financial literacy too or was it more theoretical, just like make your own money and do it? Or how did you learn the specifics of it?
Melissa Xides:
I think she taught me how to save well. I think she taught me how to invest in a home and your property being a value that can really build. I have to say the 401k piece comes from that Gap experience. I had an early assistant manager who, when I was filling out all the medical benefits paperwork and things like that, she said, "You're going to do 6% on a 401k." And I was like, "No, I want 16% out of my paycheck." And she was like, "Trust me, you'll do it." And I had a 401k since I was 18.
Johanna Almstead:
Wow.
Melissa Xides:
And I try to pay it forward to as many people as I can, but it helped me buy my first house, taking a loan out of my 401k when the time came, which was pretty cool.
Johanna Almstead:
That's amazing.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
And it's so hard to know at 18 that that's going to affect your life in such a big way later.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. You need every dime you can get because you're buying your ramen noodles and you're trained there.
Johanna Almstead:
Your dollar pizza slices across the-
Melissa Xides:
Yeah, exactly. And so I'm making 5.25 an hour. It's like, "6% is coming out of this thing?" So yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. I remember actually sitting two of my girls down at Kate Spade when they started and they didn't want to do their 401k and I made them do their 401k and then I was like, "And you're also going to open up." I remember it was like Capital One 360. I'm like, "You're going to open up a savings account and you're going to have a little bit deducted out of every paycheck." And they were like, "Come on, Jo." And I was like, "I'm telling you, you're going to want it later."
Melissa Xides:
It's the best advice, start early before it gets too late and you get used to it. And then before you know, you have a little nest egg.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, so true. I'm not that good about it. Have you started that with Eleanor yet? Are you good about that?
Melissa Xides:
I started a 529. I can't say I'm super good. I mean, you get into these years where you have mortgages and all of a sudden, the amount that you can contribute gets harder and harder, but I did start a 529 for college because it's going to be rough by the time she gets into school.
Johanna Almstead:
So rough.
Melissa Xides:
Embracing myself.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I feel like we did that too, but I'm not good at the like, "Here's your savings account," and like, "Let this budget"-
Melissa Xides:
No, I haven't done that yet either.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, good. So that makes me feel like I'm not the total slacker because I look up to-
Melissa Xides:
No. No. Only 529.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. No, I'm not that good.
Johanna Almstead:
Guys, she's a disaster actually. Okay. When you were living in Brooklyn, being raised by your mom or when you were in college, running around, did you have a picture in your mind of what success or having it all looked like? Did you have any vision for that for yourself?
Melissa Xides:
No. I think it was just having food on the table. I know that sounds crazy. I mean, she didn't buy a house until I was in college. I have a brother. We were both in a rental, a three-bedroom rental. And so we were probably lower middle class or touching middle class, but just having any food that we can have and feeling like we could buy name brands. And my mother always bought me Esprit clothes and things like that, Z. Cavariccis and Champion sweatshirts. I'm going to date myself now, but having access to those things equaled success for me. It wasn't necessarily homes yet. And so I think that's what success looked like and working hard. I didn't have a vision of what the job would be, but I knew that my mother instilled a sense of a work ethic in us. And so I knew working hard was going to be part of the equation. I wasn't going to be a slacker about it.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. Did you think you were going to have kids? Did you think you were going to get married? Did you have a vision of any of that stuff?
Melissa Xides:
Always, always. Marriage for sure, but being a mom was always something that I wanted to be. And I knew I didn't want to do it early though. I didn't have Eleanor until I was 40. I probably would have had her earlier, had some infertility struggles along the way, but I knew I didn't want to have a kid in my 20s because I really did want to be as financially set and career driven as possible and focus on that in the early years, but knew that I needed to be a mom, for sure.
Johanna Almstead:
So let's talk about that a little.
Melissa Xides:
Did you, by the way?
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, yeah. I always knew I wanted to be a mom. Since I was little, since I was very little, it was just not even like a thought.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah, it was similar in that sense.
Johanna Almstead:
I didn't have as much around marriage. I didn't always picture a partner.
Melissa Xides:
Same here. I never had the vision of what the wedding day was going to look like and all those things. I was always a nurturer. You are too. And so I kind of feel like I always knew I wanted to take care of a family. I thought I'd have more than one, but yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. So let's talk about that a little bit because we both had these ginormous jobs and these ginormous careers that had us bouncing all over the place. Yours was mostly more domestic, but a little bit of international travel too. Mine was all over the place. And then we had babies around the same time. We were at the same age when we had the babies. And so how did that shift your relationship to work and your career? How did motherhood change your perspective? Or did it?
Melissa Xides:
I mean, I don't think it did initially, and that's part of the problem. So here's like a PSA on that. I was lucky because I left a 12-year run out of Kate Spade and Jack Spade at eight and a half months pregnant. And so that's when I was able to actually exit. And I said to myself, "I'm going to take this time and I'm going to take a year off and I'm going to enjoy the first year of motherhood." And then I was recruited to come join the team at Tory Burch. I remember interviewing the week before I gave birth to Eleanor and they said they'll wait for me. And so I'm like, "But guys, I'm going to be gone for at least six months, if not longer." And it turns out after three or four months, I was getting the call to say, "Hey, look, we're cutting."
I don't know. It was a massive amount of payroll out of the budget and you're going to want to be involved in this decision making. And so I came back early and my first two years of being a mom, I tried to do that job the way I always knew how to do the job, which is a massive amount of work and travel in planes every single week, and try to be this also mom to this now six-month-old and did that for the first two years. And not to get right into it, but my-
Johanna Almstead:
Let's get into it.
Melissa Xides:
But my marriage imploded as well. I kind of leaned on my ex-husband a little bit too much and a nanny and was not present on those first two years, and I broke. It was really tough. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
In hindsight, do you see, because I have my own ideas of what I did, but why do you think you weren't able to slow down?
Melissa Xides:
I've always been someone that has my own expectation of myself and sometimes that's higher than my supervisor could ever put on me. It's been my entire career. You're never going to tell me how to do my job more constructively than I'm going to tell myself. And I think that was my own demise.
Johanna Almstead:
Or be a harsher critic of you, I'm sure.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah, it was.
Johanna Almstead:
You're a much harsher critic on yourself than anyone could be.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. Yeah. And even while I had great moms around me, I was doing the job. I was traveling all over the country and getting to stores because I knew I needed to be in person as much as possible and that was the expense of myself. And then coming home and wanting to be like the most present mom possible and also wanting to face plant by the time the weekend came, but muscled through. And probably, not probably, I think what likely happened is my marriage took-
Johanna Almstead:
The brunt of it.
Melissa Xides:
The brunt of it.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. And so that's part of where we broke. And so when you fast forward, I mean, that was a massive learning. I had a really great run at Tory. It was such a beautiful brand and she was a great example of philanthroper and a mom herself running a beautiful pristine brand. But I was going through all that in those early days and had great leadership. But I think what the gift of you pivot, I did a small stint in SoulCycle, it was short enough that I probably won't spend a lot of time talking about it, because I think really the pivot into Bergdorf Goodman was the gift. And it really was getting this opportunity to kind of... Eleanor's now four or three and a half, four years old, and getting this beautiful job with the legacy brand and all the complexity is under one roof, and really incredible bosses and my immediate supervisor and then ultimately the president, but incredible leaders that allowed me to strike this balance of motherhood and also this complex role.
And so that's where I feel like I finally gotten to my stride. Unfortunately, I was divorced at this time, but at least as a mother, really was able to balance being a great mom to Eleanor and being present and then also feeling like I could lean into this job as well and striking that balance.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, having a job that you loved and really passionate-
Melissa Xides:
Loved. Loved and did it for the last seven years up until a couple weeks ago, which was really a gift.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
So you've said that your marriage was a sacrifice probably that you made. Are there other sacrifices that you made to get to this point? Because I feel like we all make them.
Melissa Xides:
I mean, the sacrifices that probably we all make in, I mean, massive amount of sacrifices in motherhood, you compare yourself to every mom that could be there all the time, or you think they're there all the time. And so you have this crazy perception of what that looks like, sacrifices to your friendships and wanting to be around for your friends more. But I think the older you get, the more you realize frequency doesn't matter as much as quality time matters. But in those early days, you put a lot of pressure on frequency and so you're always kind of failing at those things.
Johanna Almstead:
Totally.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. Right?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely, I felt like I was failing all the time.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. Yeah. Constantly. It's like you could never, ever nail it and you want to do more. So yeah. And also, you're failing in business as well. I mean, I ultimately always thought I could do more and was selling myself short on so many fronts because I was trying to strike that balance.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's like you don't know when you're in it and you just don't see it until you've got a little clarity later.
Melissa Xides:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
So when she is old enough to listen to this podcast, what do you want Eleanor to know about this time, about her life so far, and how you've been working and how you've been living and how you've been momming, and how you've been co-parenting? What do you want her to know once she has a little more maturity and can listen to this?
Melissa Xides:
Oh. Oh, my gosh. She's like my favorite human on the planet and gosh, we're not going to cry, are we?
Johanna Almstead:
We can. We're allowed to cry. People cry on this. I cry all the time.
Melissa Xides:
She's such a gift and she is the best girl. And I work hard for her to be able to provide for her. Her dad does too, I think, and we do a lot for her so that's why she feels like she's set and she could choose her own path. But I hope she felt like the quality time that I do give her felt like it was quality and she didn't always view me as the working mom. I will tell you, and I have the best mom on the planet myself, but she missed a lot. And I think she would agree with you on that.
She didn't have the flexibility. I think she was more of a shift manager than I became as an executive. So when she was working nine to six, it was like running a selling floor and she didn't have the time to be able to be flexible at all with her schedule. And so I was in sports my entire life. She missed a lot of games. She missed a lot of stuff. And I really, really try to not miss that much for Eleanor, or like when she's in chorus or camp visiting day or doing whatever that I'm trying to be as present as possible. And I hope she agrees when she gets older.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes. If she's listening to this, you should know that your mother just actually canceled a dinner that we rescheduled because you have a winter course concert, Eleanor. And she was like, I loved it though when you sent that text, you were like, "It's the night of her concert. I can't do it." And I was like-
Melissa Xides:
Oh, my gosh. And she is learning her words, we were practicing, and hopefully last year she got front row. I'm hoping she gets front row again. And so she's going to make us proud, but I couldn't miss it. And I so appreciate the flex on that one.
Johanna Almstead:
It was so sweet. And we're going to meet the night before, so it's going to be great, or the night after or something. I don't remember what we did.
Melissa Xides:
Before.
Johanna Almstead:
And you can tell me if you don't want to talk about this, but I feel like you and your parenting partner have really navigated co-parenting in a very beautiful way. When I think about friends that I have who have gotten divorced or separated or whatever and are co-parenting, I think about you guys as an example of really doing it quite gracefully and beautifully. And of course, I don't know everything that goes on behind the scenes, but what do you think the key to that has been for you? And do you agree with me?
Melissa Xides:
I do. I mean, I think I laugh because gosh, if he ever listens to this, he's going to be like, "She's not graceful." So he might chuckle about that because we definitely get into rips even to this day, but I'm pretty proud of us, I have to say. We are friends first and we're pretty obsessed with this kid. I mean, she's pretty great. And she's an old soul. I always say Eleanor is 10 going on 80. She's just an old soul and she's like, you want to show up your best for her. She just brings that out in you. And so him and I work really hard to be around her and be great for her and do family things. And even in the early days, I have to say, we used a mediator to get us through divorce. We didn't have to go through legal rigamarole and we navigated through that process as well as one can.
So I am. I'm pretty proud of us. And we go through stages. She's only 10, but we're like midway, I guess, through her childhood phases. And there's stages of when things get hard and when things get easier. And I'm pretty proud of how we've navigated. And I'm also grateful. We were on the Upper West Side for many years and I crossed over into Long Island City and he fast followed, which I so appreciate. And so now he lives 10 minutes from me. And that's like a game-changer, I have to say, because we're plugged into the same community. All her friends are the same. We're both equidistance to school five minutes away. And that makes bringing her up in the same neighborhood super, super easy. So that was, I think, the game-changer for us.
Johanna Almstead:
I never really thought about that, but yeah, I guess it's true. I do have friends where the ex lives somewhere far away. And so the kids when they're with that parent, it's like they're removed from their everyday life. And I didn't think about that. Yeah, that makes sense.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. And you have to develop friends in both places or play dates or I wouldn't know where... If he was in a different neighborhood, I wouldn't know the parents of those friends in that neighborhood. And you don't even think about it in the early days because we got divorced unfortunately when she was quite small, but certainly now the fact that we have the same friend groups or moms and dads and we're both in the group. And most of the parents, they laugh because they're like, "How do you guys get along so good?" Or some people don't even see us as being divorced and it's just because we're so focused on-
Johanna Almstead:
Very civil.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah, we're very civil and friends and really have a great time with her. So we know the benefits of sticking together for her.
Johanna Almstead:
That's amazing.
Melissa Xides:
So thank you. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I've always just really admired it and respected you for it because I think it's not easy, and it's easy to try to control every aspect of it, which is-
Melissa Xides:
Oh, yeah. God knows I try.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm dying trying. That's what I'm doing.
Melissa Xides:
Control?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Control, what? Me? Did I mention my denim walls?
Melissa Xides:
Exactly.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, control. Okay. Let's talk about control. That's funny. So you've talked a little bit about being raised by a single mother and being raised in a retail environment. Clearly, you've always been savvy from a business perspective. Where do you think that comes from? I mean, being in charge of a retail floor is a lot of control, right?
Melissa Xides:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Do you think that that's something you identified really early? Like you said, you got the keys six months in to the Gap at your 5.25 an hour. Where does that play into your success? Where does that play into? I don't know. I just like to think about that as a really positive thing. You know?
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. I think I don't view it as control in that instance as much as I view it as my ability to spot talent and really not be intimidated by people who do things well around me. And maybe that's a little bit of humbleness and good listening skills, but I developed that knack really early on and was able to just start building teams around me that did it even better than me. And so when you think about even a great selling floor, and I was in a store the other day and I was like, "Wow, brick and mortar's really coming back in a good way," and one of the things that was great about the store was like the energy across the entire... When you walk into those environments where every single employee is dialed in or when you walk into a restaurant, everybody's on the same page and it feels like a symphony.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that.
Melissa Xides:
And in my early days, I felt like I was able to identify people who always brought something different to the table and could create an environment like that. And that became like my claim to fame. So I still feel like that's what I'm doing, is building teams, whether building teams or inheriting teams and bringing out the best in them. But I think that's probably the common thread.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. That's cool. Do you have any major moments in your life where you look back and you think like, "Wow, if I hadn't done that, my life would've been really, really different"?
Melissa Xides:
Oh, I mean, I guess walking into that Gap store and getting a part-time job was probably... But I think taking risks, I mean, I think about this period that I'm in right now and I think about... I'm one of those people that I stay in jobs for 10 years and I'm pretty loyal, loyal to a fault sometimes. And my first time leaving the Gap, I was on vacation and took a recruiter call and that's how I ultimately stumbled into the next thing. And from then on, I felt like if I don't start taking some risks in my career, I'm really going to start to get stagnant. And I've never really left the job unhappy. I think about Bergdorf or a Gap or Kate Spade, it's always been just such a blissful time and left it on a high. But part of the reason why I'm leaving is because I needed to take risks and learn something new.
Johanna Almstead:
Challenge yourself.
Melissa Xides:
So that comes to mind, and challenge myself. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. That's interesting. I do feel like that, I'm a little bit like that too. If I'm in something good, I don't want to mess it up and so I don't want to change it.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. Yeah, and it makes it harder to walk away. But then if you don't, what's the alternative? You wait until it's dead in the water and then you become resentful. And I'm not that kind of person. I'm an optimistic kind of person. I kind of thrive off the energy of other people. And so when I see that could potentially be diminishing down the road, I want to look for those exit ramps a little bit earlier.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. And kind of see what's the next, shake it up a little bit for the next challenges.
Melissa Xides:
Shake it up a little bit for myself. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I feel like that's good parenting advice though too, to remind our children of those things of like, "It's okay to shake it up a little bit."
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. I mean, I think my next gig, I can't really talk too much about it, but it's got travel is really prominent. And when I think about Eleanor and I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, I can't even wait for this next phase of going places with Eleanor and really experiencing life through her eyes." As a kid growing up in Brooklyn, I mean, I think the furthest place we went was Wildwood, New Jersey and Mount Airy Lodge. Do you remember that? Those were my two trips that my brother and I went to.
Johanna Almstead:
<< Beautiful Mount Airy Lodge >>
Melissa Xides:
Oh, my gosh, with the champagne glass filled with water and you're like-
Johanna Almstead:
Totally. The hot tub.
Melissa Xides:
That was it. And we lived in the arcade there. And so we didn't really get out much. I kind of look back at my childhood and think to myself like, what are the things that I can give to Eleanor that would really be great for her life? And travel is one of them. So she's been a few places already, but I really, really am excited about this next phase for us.
Johanna Almstead:
I think it's so cool too because I feel like you also kind of did... The other reason you probably weren't traveling is you also bought this beautiful home for you as a family in Long Island outside of the city. And so for so long, that was so important to you, is having this foundational place for her summers and for your weekends and whatever.
Melissa Xides:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
And that usually is a deterrent to travel, right? Because you like-
Melissa Xides:
It was for a very long time. My entire disposable income went to that house.
Johanna Almstead:
Exactly. And your time, you don't want to be away from it, right?
Melissa Xides:
Yes. Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
So I think it's lovely and serendipitous now that that's settled and done, and now it's like, you guys are going to go on to these adventures. It's so fun.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. I think it's another chapter for our lives. And I mean, life passes by so quickly. And so I think it goes by quicker if you're stuck in the same thing. And so when I think about my life in chapters, and I weirdly think in these 10-year increments, I do think about shaking it up every 10 years and how do you do that to spice it up and really elongate it as much as possible. The friends can stay. The friends and the family can stay constant.
Johanna Almstead:
But we're not getting dumped? We're not getting dumped with the job?
Melissa Xides:
No, no. I have the best friends on the planet. I really do. And I just cherish them so much and want to nurture them so much, but I want to take them into these new experiences and go into the next chapter. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
So fun. So excited for you. So you've had lots of achievements. Is there one that you're the most proud of? It doesn't have to be career-wise. It could be career, it could be family, it could be life, it could be love, it could be whatever. It could be pickleball. I don't care. Not that you play pickleball.
Melissa Xides:
I mean, I think Eleanor is... I know that sounds so cliche, but I did, and I do like to talk about this, I mean I spent five years in infertility clinics trying to have her. And could I have ultimately adopted? Sure. But I think every time I was going through the journey, I got a step closer to having a baby. And so I felt like it was a promising step, even though in retrospect, it was like five years of living in an infertility clinic and three miscarriages and a really tough journey. But I'm proud of myself for going through that. I mean, I lived in a doctor's office and I was like injecting myself for years and trying to do all the things. And it was not for the faint of heart, I will tell you that.
Johanna Almstead:
It was also when you had a ginormous job with a ton of pressure.
Melissa Xides:
It was. It was.
Johanna Almstead:
When you say you lived in a doctor's office, like you did, and you also worked like 97 hours a day.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. I would go in, I'd get to the doctor at 7:30 in the morning and be in the office by 8:00. And I also remember being on a board. You mentioned Pret, but I remember being like one of the only females on a board and injecting myself with progesterone and it makes your brain freaking crazy. And I'm going into hot sweats around a table of men who are already in their 50s and 60s. And I'm thinking to myself like, "I can't do this." And so yeah, trying to be a badass career woman and also have my own full-time job at Kate Spade at the time and try to go through all this infertility stuff was like, it was a tough journey and I was so grateful that it all worked out the end. She's the best.
Johanna Almstead:
Why didn't you give up? A lot of people would have stopped after a couple years.
Melissa Xides:
I think every step I got a little bit closer-
Johanna Almstead:
Because you were making that progress.
Melissa Xides:
Whether it was like, "Congrats, you got pregnant," okay. "Congrats, you're eight weeks in," and then I get an ectopic pregnancy, and so I just got a little bit closer and I had incredible doctors who felt that optimism and felt like it was going to happen. And I will tell you, I mean, we look back, we talked about tuition reimbursement with the Gap, but I talk about this all the time, it's like my greatest gift that Kate, not just my friendships and my experiences there was the fact that they paid for three IVF attempts.
Johanna Almstead:
Wow.
Melissa Xides:
And it was an incredible benefits program that supported young women with IVF treatment. And that was the gift, right? And so because I was able to have that, I was able to go on this journey to ultimately have Eleanor. So I think that's part of the reason why I stopped. I mean, maybe if it was the fourth time and I didn't have any more shots left, we would have stopped if it was completely out of pocket, but because it was available to me, I was able to keep it going. And honestly, sometimes I think about my life, I'm sure you do this to your life before kids and you're like, "Did I even have a life?" I mean, everything's after Eleanor. It's like the best, most enriched part of my life, is post having her.
Johanna Almstead:
So I wonder, how does this affect you? Because it's interesting, you just brought it up with being the only woman on a board with older men and how the benefits program at this particular company allowed you to do this. How does your lived experience as a woman affect how you are as a leader now? Because you are now in a position in companies where you can help affect these types of things. Do you think about that consciously? How does that work?
Melissa Xides:
All the time. All the time. When I think about when companies make decisions, I always think about what's best for the massive amount of the population. And every company, it was always different. I remember being at Tory Burch and the average age was 27 and it was largely female. And when I got to Bergdorf, it was a little bit older and maybe IVF wasn't necessarily the ultimate and most important. And so thinking about what's important for the vast majority of our employees and what are the employees asking for and let that guide our decision-making process. So that's why we have happy employees. But yeah, I do think about that all the time.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Melissa Xides:
I think different companies need different things depending on how the population is made up.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I think back about my transition into motherhood at the company that we were at, and I always think about how different it would have been if the leaders at that company had had kids, because none of them did. Right? A lot of the three or four up there that were making a lot of big decisions, I feel like that affects the culture and it affects the decisions and it affects the benefits and affects all those things. And I always think back on like, wonder what that experience would have been like if those people had had kids, because it's a very different thing.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. I have to say though, I mean, I agree with you, but I mean, we worked for leaders without kids and then ultimately in my later years, I did as well. And gosh, I got lucky. I mean, I really did get lucky with leaders who knew what to do with parents. Yeah. I mean, like I said, my early days when I did it wrong was mostly because of my own doing. I can't even blame the company that I worked for. But then ultimately when I got to Bergdorf, they were just so incredible around being pro parent for everything. And also, your peer group matters too, like working alongside a peer group that was like-minded like that helps as well because you can influence things too.
Johanna Almstead:
It's so true. Yeah. I think about it with like women who... We work in a pretty female-dominant industry, but I think about women who work in banking and finance and government, and that's a whole other hill to climb, I think too.
Melissa Xides:
I think so too. And I know it goes out. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. It's hard.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Is there anything that you've once believed about yourself that you've since outgrown?
Melissa Xides:
Oh, you asked this question all the time and I wasn't prepared for my answer on this when I should have been. I think I've outgrown, it's okay to be scared and uncertain about the future. I think in my early days, I would have wanted... It was the control in me and I think I would have wanted to control all of the outcomes. And I think when that happens, you don't really get a lot of transformational anything or you don't get any lot of exciting new adventures in your life. And so you have to embrace the uncertain now. And I've come a long way on that one. I mean, I look at like the next gig that I'm going into, and I'm not a subject matter expert by any stretch, and I'm really looking forward to plugging in and adding value, but also being a student to the business. And even at this stage of my career, being a student to the business is nerve wracking, but I embrace that now.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Getting uncomfortable in the uncomfortable, in the unknown a little bit.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I think that definitely has come with age for me too. My friend said to me one time, "You just need to get comfortable in the not knowing." And I was like, "What do you mean? Why would I ever do something like that? I'm never going to get comfortable in that." And she was like, "Just settle in for a minute and allow yourself to be a little bit raw and vulnerable." And I was like, "Oh, right. Right." Now I'm like-
Melissa Xides:
Right. It's hard.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, it's hard.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. I'm envisioning myself like Etman saying, "Tell me more about that. I don't really know about it." And those words when I was younger would never come out of my mouth. They would be in my head, but they wouldn't come out of my mouth. And now I feel like it's okay to say that I don't know what that means or I don't know where that is or how that should be running, because hopefully that's not the value that I bring today. I bring other qualities to the table.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. And also, I think it's easier when you feel more rounded out, when you're confident in more realms of your life or more realms of your career, more realms of your personality that you're... It's like okay to let go of one of those.
Melissa Xides:
Exactly. Exactly.
Johanna Almstead:
At least that's how I feel. I'm like, "No, I know how to do a lot of other shit, so I don't even need to know how to do that."
Melissa Xides:
No, it's the best time. I mean, it really is. It's the best part of aging, is that you could just chill a little bit and feel a sense of calm with these things. I don't look back on... It's also, I mean, going back to motherhood, I had Eleanor late. And so I think when you go back to what you were just saying about those moms that sit around in these companies that are very patriarchal, some of them are in there, they're moms in their 20s and 30s. So not only are they young in their career and they lack confidence, but they're also younger moms. And thank God I had her when I was older because I was a little bit more set in my ways and could do right by her, but it must be really rough.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, I think it feels like that would be a very hard position to be in.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Is there anything that you've said no to that you wish that you said yes to? Speaking of taking risks or not taking risks?
Melissa Xides:
No.
Johanna Almstead:
No. She says emphatically no. I like it.
Melissa Xides:
I'm just one of those people that I'm not a rear-view person at all. I just don't look backwards. I only look forward. So everything that I've done, I've done for a reason.
Johanna Almstead:
That's so true.
Melissa Xides:
And so I'm sure there were some moments along the way. I just don't even get my brain there to take the time to reference like, "Should I have done that?" So my answer is no.
Johanna Almstead:
I like it. Have you always been that way? Because I realize that I've always been that way. I remember being a kid and being like, when I was in third grade, I wanted to be in fifth grade. And when I was in fifth grade, I wanted to be in eighth grade. I was always looking towards the future and always looking towards this future life that I was going to have. And I don't know if it's a bad thing or a good thing. I don't know. We'll see. The jury's still out. But have you always been that way? Have you always been a forward-thinking person?
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. Yeah, I have been. And I'm a big visualizer. If I start to visualize how my life will play out, it starts to come to fruition. So I'm massive about visualization. I think now, I am forcing myself to live in the moment, especially in this four-week moment of fun employment, but I am literally trying to slow time down and it is a concerted effort that I need to make because I can't stop from thinking forward. But yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Is it uncomfortable? Is it hard for you? Because I have a very hard time with that too.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. Very, very. Yeah. I can't even give you the visual of what it looks like around here. I have calendars all over the place. I'm planning my life for the next six months and everyone's asking me like, "What are you doing? What are you doing?" And I think it's calming me down too. So there's something Zen about that because I'm plotting out what my future months and year could look like, but I also need to get out there and enjoy in the moment, too, when I plan on doing that as well. But it's effort. Like a freak.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. It's a huge effort.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah, you were like that.
Johanna Almstead:
I literally was just having this conversation with my husband about all this stuff I needed to get done and all this stuff, and I needed to ... And I was like, "But I'm so tired and I'm so brain dead and I can't do it." And he's like, "Just stop. You plan to break in for yourself. Go on the break, take a minute." And I was like, "But I can't do that either." I'm really bad at just slow down.
Melissa Xides:
No, you are. We are. I mean, I think about even when you feel like you've gotten your new home, you're always going to feel like your eternally need to evolve it. And I hope, and we'll do this for each other, that we just pause and stop each other in the moment because it's happening right before our eyes, all these incredible moments. I think about, I can't wait for when you open up your home and it's like, let's do it a lawn furniture and then let's do it again with a dining room table, and let's do it again on an incredible sofa with candlelight. We'll do it multiple, multiple times and we'll enjoy every single one of them. But if we wait until the last time to really enjoy it, we're going to miss a lot of years.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, that's such a good point. You and I are both really bad at that, of not having it be perfect, and allowing people into the process, allowing people into the messy middle, I think is very hard for me.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah, it is. It's waiting for the sun to moon, the stars to align before you allow it all to happen, and for people to come in will make you miss some moments. And I'm trying. I'm trying and I know you need to, too, because there's just not a lot of years left. So we got to seize these moments.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Okay. Well, this is like total counterintuitive to what we're exactly talking about, but I feel like, I always feel very strongly, particularly for women who are mothers and particularly for women who work their asses off, making sure you have time to dream. So what are you actually dreaming about? You're planning, fine, but like what are you dreaming about? Are you dreaming about anything? Are you allowing yourself time to dream?
Melissa Xides:
I mostly dream about my daughter growing up super independent and being incredibly happy and content with herself. That's the biggest dream that I have because that's the piece that is a little bit out of my control. And so I just want the best for her. That to me is the dream because I don't dream about retirement because I don't see myself stopping to work. I know this sounds crazy, but my mother still works to this day. I probably will too, not because-
Johanna Almstead:
How old is your mom?
Melissa Xides:
She's 79, 78. Oh, my gosh, she's going to kill me. She's 71. No.
Johanna Almstead:
She looks amazing. Are you kidding me?
Melissa Xides:
She looks amazing. She walks a mile and a half to work. She works in the neighborhood. She works four, five days, but she works because she gets a lot of joy out of it. And I sort of see myself... I always used to laugh with a friend, our mutual friend, Joe, who always say like, "I'm going to retire and be someone's stock supervisor." I'm going to come back and be his stock supervisor at 10 and really run his... But that I ultimately never see myself slowing down and I always see myself around great friends and I do that today. So when you ask me what do I dream about, it has only dreams like are around Eleanor and having great joy in her life, even far beyond my years with her.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. That's a good dream. I like that dream.
Melissa Xides:
And healthy friends, right?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Melissa Xides:
And healthy family and friends, right?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Gosh, that becomes like a much bigger thing I think as we get older. I feel like we didn't have to think about that so much.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
So while you're doing all this dreaming and planning and trying to be in the moment, how do you nourish yourself physically, spiritually, mentally, all the things?
Melissa Xides:
You mentioned my house out east. I have a house in Long Island and I think that is the place where I refuel. It's my happy place. It's surrounded by trees. I love looking at trees, and so I think that's how I refuel. And even if I go there and I'm doing house chores, it's like my friends laugh at me because I could be in the backyard like in my pajamas and it's 2 o'clock in the afternoon and I found myself gardening and I'm still like weirdly in the pajamas. Or I'm like, I have scissors-
Johanna Almstead:
Like hedge cutters.
Melissa Xides:
Hedge cutters, thank you. Hedge cutters, I'm doing the visual here, but no one can see me, but I have hedge cutters and I'm barefoot and trimming the perimeter of my garden. But that is definitely my happy place and I think that's where I refuel the most.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. It's my happy place too, I got to be honest. It's definitely on my list of happy places. I go to your house and I'm like, "Oh, it's right with the world." It's just such a beautiful-
Melissa Xides:
I love that. You make it super happy when you come. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Such a pretty place.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah, I love when you guys come.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So I know you don't take a lot of them, but you are taking a couple now. What is your idea of a perfect day off? Is it trimming the hedges in your pajamas or is it something else?
Melissa Xides:
No, it is. I mean, it is. And it's also like quality time with Eleanor. I mean, I'm in this moment right now, so I guess this is top of mind, but we have a good lineup for Christmas where we're staying local and we're taking New York by storm.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that for you.
Melissa Xides:
So a perfect day off is just to get in the city and explore all the city has to offer with her. Can't get more perfect than that.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I mean, it's such a magical time. I love this for you. My job wasn't as heavy in December. PR is not as heavy in December. So I mean, you always felt the pressure to be around. It wasn't like we took December off. But I feel like for you, you really have not had a true December off in 30 years.
Melissa Xides:
No. Not only was I working crazy hours, but I'm an overachiever. And so it was always at the expense of myself. And then I have to tell you, and Eleanor said to me, even though I had a little sick last week, but she said, "Please don't be sick for Christmas," because ever since COVID, I feel like Christmas Day, my body shuts down on me because I'm doing all the things up until that day and then I have nothing left to give on December 25th. And I'm taking care of myself so that does not happen.
Johanna Almstead:
Oof, that's kind of hard. That one got me in the heart hearing her say that.
Melissa Xides:
Yes. Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
I mean, I can relate. Mine was not necessarily always that, but it was like I've gotten sick almost every holiday in the last several years and it's brutal and you feel-
Melissa Xides:
It's brutal.
Johanna Almstead:
It's so brutal.
Melissa Xides:
No. It's with flu season. With or without a flu shot, I feel like our bodies are like... Ever since COVID, we've just been getting massively sick and it's hard to enjoy the holidays. So I'm hoping this one-
Johanna Almstead:
And it's also like you just grind. You're a grinder, I'm a grinder. We grind hard until the finish line.
Melissa Xides:
Until the finish line. Exactly. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Really, yeah.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. You talk a lot about like sometimes you just need to be horizontal because you've done everything and then you're shut. And I'm an extremist like that too. I roll hard until I can't anymore and then I collapse. It doesn't happen often, but when it happens, it happens. And I really need to just sleep and recharge my battery.
Johanna Almstead:
I have started, so this is not, I mean this is like not wellness advice for anyone, I'm not like, "Yeah, you should definitely do this." But I have started at least allowing myself that to happen sooner. So this happened, we're in the middle of moving our houses and packing our house and we were like, "This is craziness." And earlier in the week when I had gone hard, like crazy work hard, crazy house stuff hard, crazy, crazy many, many things hard and been just literally out of breath for days and days and days. And then I just had a day where I was like, "I don't feel good. I'm tired and I don't feel good."
And normally, I would have still barged through that because it was a Monday or a Tuesday. It was a weekday. It was like in the middle of everything day and this time I didn't and I was like, "I'm going to lay down." I did a bunch of stuff in the morning and I was like, "I'm going to actually lay down." And I laid down on my couch at two in the afternoon, which is very rare for me.
Melissa Xides:
Very unlike you. And the friend in me wants to say, "Good for you, you've done it." But I know some people listening to this podcast would have said to us, "You should have done it two days sooner."
Johanna Almstead:
You're like, dumb ass, you shouldn't have ever gotten your-
Melissa Xides:
Like you should. But I know you and plowing through sickness is par for the course. I am the same way, which is why my body shuts down when I take the day off and it finally is allowed to. But yeah, we really need to slow it down a little bit.
Johanna Almstead:
But I mean, because last Christmas I got pneumonia. I couldn't do Christmas because I had pneumonia and I was sick for six weeks. And that honestly, that was the only thing that was running through my head when I was not feeling good last week. I was like, "You can't get pneumonia again."
Melissa Xides:
No.
Johanna Almstead:
You cannot do that again.
Melissa Xides:
No, it's such a joyful time. You need to be there for the girls, do whatever we could do to not get sick. And I know you're in the throes of it, so take care of yourself please because-
Johanna Almstead:
I'm trying. I'm trying. I did. I laid down. I watched reruns of Downton Abbey. And that's like my soul medicine. So I did. I laid on the couch and just vegged and I felt better the next day. I woke up and I was like, "Okay, I can do this again." I was like, "All right." And so I'm like, "Okay, just do it sooner. Just don't plow through. Do it sooner, do it sooner." Probably again, like you said, two days earlier.
Melissa Xides:
And I mean, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm drinking less alcohol these days and I'm subbing with water. So hydration, it definitely helps. So stay hydrated.
Johanna Almstead:
I actually heard on Gwyneth Paltrow's podcast the other day, someone was like, "How do you get through the holiday season?" And she was like, "No alcohol in bed by nine." And I was like, "Well, that's not very festive."
Melissa Xides:
No, I know.
Johanna Almstead:
But I get it.
Melissa Xides:
But it's so boring.
Johanna Almstead:
But I get it.
Melissa Xides:
I get it too. I know. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I get it because it's such a long haul. And I think people who are not parents yet, I don't think, have quite the understanding of how intense it is to be doing the holidays. I think it's like people just don't get it until you do it. But that, on top of work, on top of all the other things, it just doesn't never end. So anyway, I can't say that I've been going to bed at 9 o'clock and not drinking every night, but that's okay.
Melissa Xides:
No.
Johanna Almstead:
Gwyneth is goals, hashtag goals. Okay. This brings us to the very, very, very, very exciting time of the lightning round of silly questions. I'm so curious because I feel like I know a lot of these, but I always like to see what people answer. So don't overthink this. I know you are very thoughtful. I know you are very precise. I know that you do things very well every time. So don't worry about it. Take a deep breath. Say what comes to your mind first. Favorite comfort food.
Melissa Xides:
Mac and cheese with a glass of wine.
Johanna Almstead:
Ooh, I like it.
Melissa Xides:
Preferably boxed mac and cheese, which is really terrible. I didn't think I was going to admit that, but I am.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, yeah. No. Dude, I'm into it. I love it. It's delicious. What is something you are really good at?
Melissa Xides:
Cleaning.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, you are.
Melissa Xides:
I know. It's so dorky, but I am. You'll want me around. I mean, if you need me to help unpack the house, I'm a pretty good project manager, but cleaning is my jam. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, God, you're so good. What is something you're really bad at?
Melissa Xides:
I am, and my friends will laugh at me at this, I am really terrible about choosing music and choosing restaurants, which is what you're great at. And the first, I call it food porn, but your first 30 seconds where you're laying out the music and the meal, I'm like all ears because I'm like Bebe Gilberto and all these. I am the worst. I will put the worst playlist on. And the same song could be on repeat like five times in a row. My friends are like, "Hello?" So picking music and picking a restaurant is not my thing.
Johanna Almstead:
Really? Okay.
Melissa Xides:
Although I love great music and I love great food, I just don't want to choose it. I just want to show up.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, I'm here to support you.
Melissa Xides:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm here to do that for you all the time.
Melissa Xides:
Yes, you do all the time. Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
I'll do that for you anytime. What's your favorite word?
Melissa Xides:
I thought about this a little bit and only because Eleanor brought it up the other day, but she said the word onomatopoeia to me in the right context, and I had actually-
Johanna Almstead:
She used it properly?
Melissa Xides:
She used it properly and I forgot the meaning. So I actually had to Google it and think about what the word was.
Johanna Almstead:
Onomatopoeia.
Melissa Xides:
It basically describes what the sound is. So if the word is buzz, it sounds like buzz and the word is buzz, that's onomatopoeia.
Johanna Almstead:
Why did I think onomatopoeia was the one that's like, it's spelled the same backwards and forwards? What's that?
Melissa Xides:
That's oxymoron. Is that? No.
Johanna Almstead:
No, that's not oxymoron.
Melissa Xides:
Oh, gosh.
Johanna Almstead:
But you're right. No, onomatopoeia is. It sounds like it buzz.
Melissa Xides:
Yes. But now it's going to drive me crazy. What is that?
Johanna Almstead:
Slurp is?
Melissa Xides:
Slurp is that. Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Onomatopoeia. Okay. I'm going to look at it.
Melissa Xides:
What's the backwards and forwards? Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Someone's going to look it up for us.
Melissa Xides:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. And they'll comment.
Melissa Xides:
But she said it in the right context. So now it's like a sing song-y in my brain and I was really impressed. So I feel like that's a good word.
Johanna Almstead:
That's a good word.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
We need to use that more often.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. What is your least favorite food? I feel like you're a pretty adventurous eater. What's something you will just not do?
Melissa Xides:
Oh, do you know this about me? Well, condiments.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, wait, I do know this about you. It's so weird you guys she doesn't use any condiments.
Melissa Xides:
It's weird.
Johanna Almstead:
Not just one, not just ketchup.
Melissa Xides:
I'm a pain in the ass. I don't eat mustard, mayo, ketchup. And Jo makes a great salad dressing and she has to hide that she puts mustard in it all the time. And I pretend it's not in there and it tastes delicious, but for some reason I hate condiments. Every time I order sandwiches, I have to order it without condiments.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So this feels more like a kind of generality subject matter as opposed to actual taste though. Do you just hate condiments as like a thing or do you actually-
Melissa Xides:
Well, no, because I do like things like chimichurri. I do like some dips. So it's not all condiments, but mayo, mustard and ketchup, mustard being like enemy number one.
Johanna Almstead:
But you eat my salad that has it in the dressing. So you don't hate it.
Melissa Xides:
I know, but the rest of the salad is so good and you put minimal mustard in and then I convince myself. But if I were eating mustard, even if I was smelling it, no.
Johanna Almstead:
But you feel that equally strong about ketchup and mayo too? You don't like any of that?
Melissa Xides:
Well, any order, it's mustard, ketchup and mayo because I can eat mayo in chicken salad.
Johanna Almstead:
Do you eat like tuna salad or chicken salad?
Melissa Xides:
I do.
Johanna Almstead:
You eat too.
Melissa Xides:
And I eat mayo and only that, but only that. So there's an order, but mustard's like enemy number one.
Johanna Almstead:
Wow.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
That's wild.
Melissa Xides:
It's weird.
Johanna Almstead:
I did know that. I forgot, but I didn't think that that would necessarily be your least favorite food. That's saying a lot.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Least favorite word.
Melissa Xides:
Least favorite word or maybe the way it's said is so at the start of the sentence.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, okay.
Melissa Xides:
Embedded with like vocal fry.
Johanna Almstead:
So, Melissa, I was thinking that maybe we would like eat some ketchup together.
Melissa Xides:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
So I'm going to really need you to eat some mustard.
Melissa Xides:
So there's like condiments on this sandwich. So yeah. Come on.
Johanna Almstead:
What are you going to do when Eleanor was a teenager? Because I feel like that's going to come up.
Melissa Xides:
No, it's going to drive me crazy.
Johanna Almstead:
It's going to come up.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah, it's going to come up. And so is vocal fry and it's going to send me over the edge.
Johanna Almstead:
Love it. Okay. Best piece of advice you've ever received.
Melissa Xides:
Best piece of advice I ever received or maybe best piece of advice I live by is never waste a good crisis.
Johanna Almstead:
Ooh, tell me more about that.
Melissa Xides:
My team at work will laugh if they hear this because I do use it a lot. But I'm a transformational leader. I like to bring out the good in situations. And anytime you have a crisis, it's an opportunity to do something different and to really look for silver lining in it and show up the way you want to show up. And so I think about, gosh, the pandemic, which was horrendous, but from a work perspective, like what do we need to get out of this? Or anytime there's just like some sort of crisis, I sort of dig deep and say like, "What do we need to get out of this? And how do we need to shape how the culture operates?" Probably use it in my work life more than personal, but even in personal, it's a learning opportunity. So never waste a good crisis.
Johanna Almstead:
Are you able to get there quickly? Because I feel like part of what happens to me in crisis is the like "gaah" first. I'm actually good into stepping into action, but the being able to not feel like the sky is falling all the time. Or you're just like, "The sky is falling and I'm going to still do this"?
Melissa Xides:
I have my moment. I'm pretty good in a crisis, I have to say. So I stay calm. But then maybe once I have a chance to reflect on my own, I definitely break down. I'm not going to say I'm strong and stealth and can kind of get through it. But if there's something happening, I try to be as introspective as possible and bring out the best in the situation. Almost to the point where it's like rose colored glasses.
Johanna Almstead:
Like a little too Pollyanna?
Melissa Xides:
Yeah, there's a little bit of that for sure. And sometimes I'm premature with my Pollyanna-ish behavior or reaction, and that drives people crazy. So there's pluses and minuses, for sure, but I think, in general, I'm a person you would want in moments of adverse moments.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Okay. So this is a good-
Melissa Xides:
Never waste a good crisis.
Johanna Almstead:
Never waste a good crisis. If your personality were a flavor, what would it be? Definitely not mustard.
Melissa Xides:
No, it wouldn't be mustard. I know this is one of your questions, so I did think about this a little bit. So can I say affogato? Is that a flavor? Because I feel like I consider myself boring, so I'm vanilla.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Melissa Xides:
I'm in bed by nine, I'm boring, but then every once in a while, you can pour espresso over me and it spices the heck out of it up. And so I have that zest too. Flavor profile on the interior is vanilla and then with the espresso kick to it, I would say affogato is my flavor profile.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm going to disagree with you on the boring part, but the combo, I think-
Melissa Xides:
I mean vanilla's still a good flavor.
Johanna Almstead:
Vanilla's still delicious.
Melissa Xides:
It's pretty consistent. It's reliable. I consider myself reliable.
Johanna Almstead:
And I wouldn't ever really call you racy. So I feel like vanilla's not far, but I would argue with the boring, but that's okay. You do you.
Melissa Xides:
Reliable.
Johanna Almstead:
Reliable.
Melissa Xides:
I do think I'm reliable.
Johanna Almstead:
Delicious, yummy. Okay. But I do feel like the combo though, because the espresso really gets in there.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah. Yeah. And I could be spicy. And I'm a Gemini, so I have those two, that juxtaposition of there's a crazy in me somewhere and sometimes it comes out in good ways and bad ways. So yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Okay, I'll take it. I'm into this for you. This is good. Okay. What'd you have for dinner last night?
Melissa Xides:
Oh, gosh.
Johanna Almstead:
Don't lie.
Melissa Xides:
No, a Greek burger, a feta and spinach Greek burger with cut-up cucumbers and cherry tomatoes with a glass of wine.
Johanna Almstead:
Yum, that's very healthy. Yummy.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah, it was. It was. No carb. I was surprising myself. No carb.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. But you didn't probably put tzatziki on it. Do you like tzatziki? Does that as a condiment?
Melissa Xides:
I do.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah, no, exactly. That's why I shouldn't say it's all condiments. Not all created equal.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Did you put anything on it?
Melissa Xides:
I did. I put lemon juice and olive oil. And I had it for lunch again today too.
Johanna Almstead:
Yum. It's really good.
Melissa Xides:
It was good. It was good.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Last supper, you are leaving this body and this Earth tomorrow and you're moving on to your next chapter, what are you eating tonight?
Melissa Xides:
So I'm not saying this just because it's you, but I am really hoping that you would cook it for me.
Johanna Almstead:
Really?
Melissa Xides:
And Michael too. Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, Michael needs to cook.
Melissa Xides:
Yes. Because for your audience, I mean, you guys by now know that Jo makes a mean meal, but one of my most memorable meals are yours where you're walking into this incredible charcuterie, cheese and meats and breads and oils and everything. And then Michael's in the kitchen and he's making this big, fat juicy steak and great sides and grilled veggies. And you have a famous kale salad that I love. Maybe has a little bit of mustard in it. I don't know, but we're going to pretend it doesn't.
Johanna Almstead:
Allegedly.
Melissa Xides:
But that would be a pretty incredible last supper.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, my God, I'm so honored.
Melissa Xides:
Would you do it, you think?
Johanna Almstead:
Of course, I would. Are you kidding me? I get excited even if someone just invites me to theirs, but let alone be the one to cook it for you, I'd be psyched.
Melissa Xides:
I mean, I would help. I'd be in the kitchen too. But if you guys were leading the way, I would follow. That would make me super happy.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. And what would you be drinking with this? Or I'm just providing all the drinks because I'll do it? I mean-
Melissa Xides:
No, for sure you are, but like some big red Italian wine to go along with it. Lots of it.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. I feel so good about that. Guys, and also she's referencing one of the first dinner parties that was an inspiration for this podcast, actually. It's what made me think about that.
Melissa Xides:
Jo used to have a really great apartment in the Upper East Side, right?
Johanna Almstead:
West.
Melissa Xides:
West Harlem. And the elevator used to open right into the apartment. It was so swanky. And I remember those elevator doors opening up and seeing what the spread looked like and thinking, holy shit, I am in heaven right now.
Johanna Almstead:
You've died and gone to heaven.
Melissa Xides:
And that visual stays with me. And she still executes it like that. But the first time to ever see it, your jaw's on the floor, you cannot even believe the spread that you're about to encounter. It's the best.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, I love that. I love about pictures in your mind still.
Melissa Xides:
It goes down as one of the best. It's my inspiration.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, that's so good. I love that. Okay. Have you ever had a moment in your life where you've had to eat your words?
Melissa Xides:
I mean, yeah, I'm divorced. Yeah, all the time.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, my God. I almost spit water everywhere. That was my favorite answer ever. No need to explain. I'm divorced.
Melissa Xides:
Yes. I eat my words all the time. I'm like notorious for blurting out my thoughts before I really think them through. So yeah, I would say, all the time.
Johanna Almstead:
Are you really notorious for that? Because I feel like-
Melissa Xides:
Oh, my gosh, yes. I say what I think all the time. People know where they stand for the most part. I think I'm respected for it, but sometimes I'm premature in saying what I think and it can come across as harsh sometimes. So when I think about it, yeah, I do that a lot.
Johanna Almstead:
And then do you take it back ever?
Melissa Xides:
Always. Always. I'm my worst critic and I'm super humble. So even when I don't need to take it back, I am trying to take it back and my friends are like, "Would you stop? Oh, my God." They're immune to it now. And most times, like I said, it's favorable. It's not harsh, but sometimes I eat my words and I'm the first person to admit first.
Johanna Almstead:
All right. That's good.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
If you could eat one food for the rest of your life every day, all day, what would you eat?
Melissa Xides:
Bagels, New York bagels.
Johanna Almstead:
New York bagels.
Melissa Xides:
Oh, yes. I can eat it for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Johanna Almstead:
What do you put on your bagel?
Melissa Xides:
Cream cheese, red onion, tomato. But then I feel like if it was like every meal, then I would doctor it up differently for every meal. I mean, I can do-
Johanna Almstead:
All right, do you do lox?
Melissa Xides:
I don't. I don't do lox.
Johanna Almstead:
You don't do lox.
Melissa Xides:
But veggies and cream cheese and all sorts of different types of cream cheese. I can even do a bagel for dessert with cinnamon raisin cream cheese, the sweet cream cheese and make it sweet. Yeah. Yeah. All types of stuff on a bagel. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. You may have answered that. You sort of answered this already, but maybe it's not the same place. Where is your happy place?
Melissa Xides:
I did answer it. It's my house or someplace where there's green trees, but my weekend house is definitely my happy place.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. What do you wear when you feel like you need to take on the world? Like you have a big meeting, a big interview, a date, something where you need to like own it?
Melissa Xides:
I think it's more than an article of clothing. It's a great blowout.
Johanna Almstead:
You're not alone in this. People have said this.
Melissa Xides:
I have crazy, kinky, curly hair. And so like blowing it out and not having my gray roots come out, it's definitely when I feel my best. But I do own, I bought... In my years at Bergdorf, you can imagine, I've accumulated an incredible wardrobe and one of my happy pieces is a great black Valentino blazer. It's got like a floral applique on the cups and I love it. I feel like I wear the heck out of it. It's amortized. I love getting good use out of investment pieces like that and I could wear it with jeans or with a dress or with great slacks. And so that's probably my power blazer, but it starts with a good blowout.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, that's going to be like one you hand down to Eleanor too.
Melissa Xides:
It is. For sure.
Johanna Almstead:
That's going to be like, she's like my mom. I have this amazing jacket for my mom.
Melissa Xides:
Definitely. Yep.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Go-to coping mechanism on a bad day. What do you do?
Melissa Xides:
I call one of my closest friends and he knows who he is, but we just shoot the shit and work it through with each other as much as possible until he makes me crack up laughing and then all is better in life. And I try to do it whether it's... and he does this too, but it's like the commuting times. So that's why I could drop it before I get in the door. But that's a massive coping mechanism that I have that I appreciate.
Johanna Almstead:
That's amazing. And does he know if you're calling, is it always like I need to work something out then?
Melissa Xides:
I hope that that's not the only reason why we speak. I really hope that he knows that it's balanced, and I hope that I do it equally for him, but I guess it's a lot to bear. And I've had some crazy years too that he's gone through. But yeah, I think he knows, but I try to also make it happy calls too, so it's not just like spewing on your friends, which is not really a nice thing to do. And I have a few friends like that, but this one specifically is a coping mechanism because it always ends with an incredible amount of cracking up or inappropriate behavior that makes me laugh so hard that I forget what the day was about.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that. That's a great coping mechanism. Okay. Dream dinner party guest list, dead or alive, and they're all going to come. So no one's going to reject you. So don't feel like worried about that. Who are you inviting?
Melissa Xides:
This is lame, but it's not any kind of celebrities. I think it's my friends.
Johanna Almstead:
That's not lame.
Melissa Xides:
I've never been this starstruck kind of girl. Even in my years at Bergdorf where everybody comes in, I never flinch with stuff like that. And so that's not where my curiosities lie. My curiosities lie in my deep friendships and getting to know how life is going for them. So sitting around the table with incredible friends would be like dream dinner party, every time.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that. I love that. I'll come cook. What is one thing you know for sure right now in this moment? In this moment of pause for you, in this moment of planning and trying to be present, what do you know right now?
Melissa Xides:
I think I mentioned it before and it's like, it's okay to be scared of the future.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Melissa Xides:
It's okay to be scared of the unknown and sit with that. Even though it doesn't feel great, I know it's healthy and it's healthy to be curious. But curiosity begets being uncertain, and so that uncertainty is daunting.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. But you're okay with it.
Melissa Xides:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I love that.
Melissa Xides:
Kind of? Kind of.
Johanna Almstead:
Kind of. Kind of.
Melissa Xides:
Keep telling myself that.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm okay with it.
Melissa Xides:
Exactly. I'm okay with being uncertain.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, I am so, so, so grateful for you as a friend and as a guest today. I'm so grateful that you took the time out. I'm so grateful that you overcame the uncertainty of wanting to be a guest on this podcast because guys-
Melissa Xides:
Oh, my gosh. I can't believe I did this.
Johanna Almstead:
... I think she might have been my most reluctant guest. I'm pretty sure you are.
Melissa Xides:
It's my first podcast and my last, although I did have fun and you did make it so great, but I know no one else is going to do this good of a job in making me feel this comfortable.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, you might just have to make a return on this one. You don't have to go do other ones, but you might be a return guest on this one.
Melissa Xides:
Fair enough. This was super fun.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm so glad it wasn't torturous for you.
Melissa Xides:
It wasn't. And, Jo, I have to say, I know a lot of guests say this to you, but I'm just so proud of you. I see how hard you work and I know the kind of person you are and you deserve this so much. And I just really enjoy. We just got, what was that, the year-end recap and I'm like your number one listener.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, my God, I love that. Thank you.
Melissa Xides:
Or your podcast is my number one podcast, but it's probably also because I listened to all of my friends twice, because I love hearing their voice in yours, but I'm just so incredibly proud of you. You're doing such a great job.
Johanna Almstead:
Thank you so much.
Melissa Xides:
And so I couldn't say no to you as much as I hate doing these things. I really just couldn't say no because I want to support you endlessly.
Johanna Almstead:
Thank you. Thank you so much. I feel supported endlessly. I feel grateful and so, so, so very happy to have had you. This has been a gift. I feel like this is time we don't usually get.
Melissa Xides:
I know.
Johanna Almstead:
And I hope that you can enjoy these moments of respite and time for yourself. And I appreciate you giving me any of this free time that you have. So thank you, thank you, thank you.
Melissa Xides:
It was a joy. Thanks, Jo.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, that was so fun. I just adore her. I could do this all day. It was actually like a proper ketchup that we needed. I hope you all enjoyed that episode. I hope you learned something. I hope you felt inspired. I hope you laughed a little bit or I hope you felt seen or heard or understood. As always, I am so appreciative of you for tuning in. If you're not doing so already, please follow us on social media or at Eat My Words, the podcast on TikTok and Instagram. If you know somebody who you think might enjoy this episode, please send it to them. You can copy it and just send it over text. You can send it over social media. You can send it over email.
Every time you share these episodes, it helps us grow our community bit by bit and we are forever grateful for it. So thank you, thank you, thank you. And we will see you soon. This podcast has been created and directed by me, Johanna Almsted. Our producer is Sophy Drouin. Our audio editor is Isabel Robertson, and our brand manager is Mila Bushner.