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Welcome to the Nimble Youth podcast, where we provide expert insights and valuable resources for parents navigating the complexities of their children's mental health. We empower parents to nurture healthy minds in children, teens, and young adults through real conversations.
Our team of seasoned professionals, including physicians, therapists and educators, delve into pressing topics, share research-based strategies, and offer practical advice for fostering mental and emotional well-being within your family.
Welcome back to the nimble youth podcast where we explore the challenges and opportunities of raising raising emotionally resilient kids and teens. I'm your host, Matt Butterman. Today, I'm thrilled to be joined by therapist and author Martha B Metzler. Martha has a new book out called Sandpaper Moments, and we're going to unpack how her unique analogy helps both parents and kids navigate anxiety, tough emotions, and those raw scratchy moments that can feel overwhelming. We'll also dive into the practical coping skills for anxiety, how nature can be a powerful ally in calming our minds, and most importantly, how parents can lead with purpose, not fear, when their children are struggling.
Matt (host):Now I usually begin each episode with some statistics that inform what we are about to discuss. But today, I wanna lead with some lines from the eighteenth century English mystical poet William Blake that really set up our discussion nicely. In his poem, Arguires of Innocence, Blake writes, it is right it should be so. Man was made for joy and woe, and when this we rightly know, through the world we safely go. Joy and woe are woven fine, a clothing for the soul divine.
Matt (host):Under every grief and pine runs a joy with silken twine. So tough moments are part of the human experience, but so are joyful ones. And by enduring misfortune, we are better we better know what happiness is, and the full portrait of life becomes clearer. And this tapestry of joy and woe, becomes our safety net, and we are stronger for it. And before we begin our discussion with Martha, we want to remind you that this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as medical or mental health advice.
Matt (host):Please visit a doctor, therapist, or other qualified mental health provider with any concerns about your child's mental health. So Martha, welcome to Nimble Youth podcast. Let's start with the heart of your book, Sandpaper Moments. What does that phrase mean?
Martha Metzler:Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. This the whole the mindset of Sandpaper Moments was born a few years ago when both in my office and then also just in my personal life and in my parenting, we kept describing the hard things as feeling like sandpaper kind of against our spirit, whether it was kind of just everyday anxiety or situational anxiety, whether it was a rejection that was experienced on a team or school, friendship hardships or relationship hardships, transitions, like whether it was going to college or starting a new, you know, high school or middle school. And all of it felt like sandpaper. Right?
Martha Metzler:And that roughness and kind of had this moment where it was like, okay, wait a second. If this feels like sandpaper, I don't just we don't have to get stuck in just the friction. Right? We can name it and acknowledge it. But then we actually get to recognize that sandpaper, yes, if we react with fear or panic or even kind of our own agenda, then it can rub us raw, right?
Martha Metzler:But if we start responding with patience and purpose and intention, it leads to our smoother edges. And so it's sort of this mindset shift that helps us weather the hard things that we go through. It doesn't take them away, right? That's a natural part of life. But what we can do is it helps our approach.
Martha Metzler:So it's saying, okay, we can actually respond with purpose and patience knowing this is not gonna be a thirty six second fix. This is gonna be a, okay, this is a part of our restoration. This is a part of leading us to smoother edges. And so is it uncomfortable? Yes.
Martha Metzler:But just like we don't get to test the immune system until we go through some sickness, until we encounter germs, then we recognize the strength of our immune system. It's the same thing with our mental health of, okay, when we encounter these hard things, these sandpaper moments, they are gonna lead to our smoother edges. They are gonna be a part of our restoration. And we can't have resilient kids. We can't be resilient adults unless we move through these hard things with the patients, but also with intention and purpose.
Martha Metzler:It's a super helpful visual for families to call back on. I know for in my family too, and then when I work with younger kids, I'll have kind of these rough blocks that I just can kind of get in the scrap yard. Have them write out kind of the hard things that they're experiencing or the hard feelings that they're feeling. And then I give them a little piece of sandpaper. I'm like, okay, so we don't have to stay just stuck on the roughness.
Martha Metzler:Like, yes, it's there and we've named it. But now with some patience, we recognize like, let's start sanding this down. And so what it does is it gives them this visual to call back on in those moments. It gives parents a visual to call back on this moment when they see their kids struggling of, Oh, okay, wait a second. This is a sandpaper moment.
Martha Metzler:But this can be a part of smoother edges. This can be a part of their growing in in kind of that grit and resilience.
Matt (host):Right. And and that's that's really important. I think what you've done, you've not made the the sandpaper the the enemy, but it's something that you can embrace and kind of live with as part of growth. Right. Yeah.
Matt (host):And so you often say that one of the biggest factors in a child's response to anxiety is actually the parent's response. And how does parenting with purpose kind of fit into these sandpaper moments?
Martha Metzler:Yeah. You know, I think I had to come to realize both in my own parenting journey but also just in sitting with kids and that they feel the safest when they see that their parents are not afraid when they are feeling the hard things or when they're not okay. And so when we can kind of approach struggle when they are struggling with this sense of calm and kind of holding that sandpaper analogy helps us respond to their struggles with hope, what we have to do is kind of, I see two things we have to prevent as parents in the way that we respond. One, sometimes we feel like we have to absorb their feelings as our own. And so there tends to be reaction instead of a response where we, as parents, sometimes can take over the space when we see our kids experiencing feelings.
Martha Metzler:And I remember sitting with a precious teenage girl, she was sharing some just really hard things that she was going through. And my approach is, as long as it's a healthy and safe and nurturing environment, I really try to shepherd all of my clients to have their first place of belonging to be the home and be in the family. And so I was saying, Okay, I am hearing you. Have you shared this with your parents? I really feel like it would be helpful for them to know how you're feeling.
Martha Metzler:She was like, Oh my gosh, no. Because anytime I'm sad, then they are extra sad, and they freak out and they cry and I I don't want them to be upset. And so especially if you have a kind of a performative kid or a people pleasing kid, we kind of have to watch our reactions to make sure we don't take up the space with our own emotions and we allow them to, you know, we help them name their feelings and then allow them to have this space for what they're actually feeling. We validate it instead of taking up space with our own.
Matt (host):I suppose you don't want to amplify, you know, kind of what they
Martha Metzler:Exactly. Are going Yeah. Or just, yeah. Or feel like, hey, it's sort of sending also their message of like, actually, I'm not going to really validate your feelings. I'm going to take them over with mine.
Martha Metzler:Right. And that can just be an it eliminates the process for them to actually name what they're feeling because they're just watching our reaction, right? And then the other response we have to or reaction really instead of a response we have to watch is the and best of intentions, right, to swoop in and fix. And so when we see our kids have these sandpaper moments, even though it our it has had this protective nature, which is a beautiful thing, we've seen it kind of go into an unhealthy direction, especially just in these more recent generations. When we swoop in and fix as parents, it does kind of two things.
Martha Metzler:It sends a subconscious message that their anxiety or whatever struggle they're having, that it is something to fear, that it is bigger than they are, right? And so when we swoop into Fix, we're sending the message like, Hey, I actually don't think you can handle this on your own, so I'm a do it for you. And so then they're like, Oh gosh, well, mom's freaking out about my anxiety, so that means, A, it must be something to fear. And also, B, I can't do it, so I'm gonna wait for her to fix it. And recognizing, too, like for our kids, their feelings aren't meant to be fixed.
Martha Metzler:Now they can be regulated and managed, but not they, you know, it's okay to feel what they're feeling. But we have to kind of shepherd them too of, okay, what you're feeling's okay, now the way you're showing it, that that can lead that can be a growth opportunity for some smoother edges, right? And so like practically, how do you make space for this? Like when you're on you know, if you're holding the sandpaper analogy in the forefront of your brain, it does help respond to your kid's sandpaper moments knowing, okay, I'm gonna hold hope knowing that I don't have to panic about their sandpaper moment. I know that this is a part of their smoother edges.
Martha Metzler:But practically kind of your response as a parent is, okay, let's say they're coming home and they are really, really angry, you know, like if their anxiety comes out as anger, first we got to regulate our own, right? Like I call it settling the snow globe. We got to let our snow globe settle so that we can see what's clearly in the middle. And so you can say like, Oh gosh, I can see you're really struggling. Right?
Martha Metzler:So we're validating their emotions. I can see you're really angry and you're really struggling. And sometimes we know, like actually angry anger can be this mask for something else deeper that we're feeling. And so is there anything else you're feeling? Like what else is going on?
Martha Metzler:And just kind of let them explain it. And if they start to get to an unhealthy place of yelling or hitting you can say like, hey, All I can hear is the anger right now. Like, I wanna hear what you have to say, but we gotta get to what's underneath the anger. And and giving them if they need space, give them space, but getting them to figure out what's what they're actually feeling. And this is not a magical, okay, great, if I do these things, then my kid won't struggle or my kid will totally show me healthy emotions all the time or want to have this in-depth conversation about their anxiety.
Martha Metzler:But what it does is it change patterns. It changes the pattern of the way that we, kids, express emotions. Changes patterns too of the dynamic between a parent and child and the way that they experience emotions together so that we can change the pattern of I'm not gonna react to your reaction, I'm gonna respond. And so I'm gonna help kind of shift this place of, all right, I'm gonna help you get to what you're actually feeling so that you can regulate it. And I'm not fearing it.
Martha Metzler:I'm having a sense of calm and intentional response here so that you know whatever it is you're feeling, it doesn't need to be fixed, but also you don't have to fear it either. So let's get to what looks like on the other side of this.
Matt (host):Right. So what are some of the practical tools that you advise parents to use to help manage the anxiety that these moments can sometimes produce?
Martha Metzler:Yeah. Oh, I love a coping skill. My, some of my go to coping skills for, especially for anxiety or kind of any unhealthy thought patterns is, okay, like let's take the deep breath because I am a big breather. So we're gonna take a deep breath, but then we're gonna kind of create this like new neuro pathway of not going to a place of future or undoing the past or any unhealthy thought pattern by mindfulness. So take a breath and go five, four, three, two, one.
Martha Metzler:Okay. What are five things that I see right now? And I really encourage my clients and my kids too to don't just be like, lamp, poster, mama. Right? Like, no.
Martha Metzler:No. Really look. Okay. I see the way that the sun's shining off of that lamp right here. Okay.
Martha Metzler:I see the different shade of chair. Right? Like, really notice and ground yourself in those five things that you see. Have them close their eyes and get four things that I hear. Because when you can close your eyes, you do become a little bit more in tuned to what the sounds that you're hearing around around you.
Martha Metzler:Three things that I can touch, so I have them, like, really touch, you know, three different textures, temperatures. Two things I'm thankful for, and I can't I'm like, you can't just say, like, friends and family. No. So right? Like, you'd be like, no.
Martha Metzler:No. I want something specific. And then, like, let's level up to maybe even something to be thankful for about this current situation that you're struggling with. And then one thing you can smell. It's super helpful for sometimes like, if people know that they're in a really anxious season or it's like if your kiddo's struggling with dealing with a lot of anxiety, whether it's at school, you know, and they, they need kind of these grounding things and you're not there to really shepherd in the moment, having like a little ChapStick in their pocket that has a smell.
Martha Metzler:Or, you know, a lot of people love these like essential rollers that have a smell. So they can kind of access that a little bit clearer. And what it does is essentially I I say it, it's like the the reset button for our brain. So it's like when we get the rainbow wheel of death on our computer, we restart it, right, and things work a little bit clearer because we've, okay, we've kind of taken it back down to neutral. Something that's also super helpful for kids, especially, again, when they are away from you, but experiencing anxiety is these, I have these beaded bracelets that I give away in my office.
Martha Metzler:And what I do is I say, I'm like, okay, if you are starting to feel that panic rise up in class or you're nervous and your anxiety is starting to get a little bit out of control, So just go around and you squeeze each bead, and you say, okay. Here's something I'm feeling. And then squeeze the next bead, and then here's something I'm grateful for. And you gotta go around the whole bracelet because what it does to me, one, it kind of redirects them and gives them a purpose with what they're feeling instead of just getting lost in the spiral. But what it also does is shows them this tangible way of experiencing both gratitude and the hard thing all in one, and in the same space.
Martha Metzler:Some breath work. I know people love the box breathing. And if that is your journey, I love that for you. Box breathing was never my journey because I'd be like, wait, which corner am I at? But I'd take the same prac you know, kinda same practice of rhythmic breathing and circulatory breathing, and I call it ocean breathing, where I picture an ocean wave coming in for four counts and an ocean wave going out for four counts.
Martha Metzler:And then I even add like a tiny little sway so that my mind and body are all connected in regulation. Because what it does and like no one's noticing, right? But it feels quite visceral when you are really attuned to it. Kind of a breath prayer or or breath mantra of, and it especially helps kids, but also adults of like, okay, I'm gonna breathe in as far as I can, say whatever I long to hear in this moment. So it's like, okay, this will pass.
Martha Metzler:And then as you exhale, like, release the muscle tension. Bring it again. I can do hard things. And as you exhale again. My youngest really likes to trace his hand as he breathes because it gives him, again, that mind body regulation.
Martha Metzler:For for people who are in a my college students like this because they can access some of the things, but the it's harder to do it, like, for a kid that's in the middle of a classroom. Right? But if you really are in the middle of a panic attack and you need a quick redirection, hold ice cubes in your hand, it's really hard to think about anything else except for the fact that your hands are really cold.
Matt (host):It grounds you.
Martha Metzler:Right. You're like, Oh gosh. Okay. And then again, this like, Okay, I'm going to get outside. I'm gonna get outside.
Matt (host):Yeah. That's a really big theme in your approach to this, right, is sort of using nature as a reset button. Right?
Martha Metzler:Right. Well, and it's, you know, I always feel cool. You know, was explaining this to this wake student guy that I see. And I was like, well, sometimes we just gotta keep it simple. Was like, y'all the life's complicated enough.
Martha Metzler:Sometimes we just need to get outside and breathe the fresh air. If you can, get some bilateral movement so that you can get clarity by running or walking. And he's like, Oh, you mean like touch grass? And I was like, Oh, is that a thing? And he's like, It's a thing.
Martha Metzler:And so apparently, touch grass is also a thing. So now I feel super hip, I'm like, You just need to touch grass. But I think it's because this transcends any genre. We have to sometimes go back to the basics. And so we need to be outside, right?
Martha Metzler:And I think that these coping skills to me are they're super important because the things that you'll never hear me say when your kid's struggling or even you're struggling is don't hand them a phone, don't hand them an iPad, don't go scrolling, don't go watch Netflix. That is not coping. That's numbing. That's self medicating. And it actually just that doesn't lead you to grit and resilience.
Matt (host):We've talked numerous times on this podcast about the issues with screen addiction and technology, using technology as a crutch as you say.
Martha Metzler:It's avoidance. It's not responding with purpose. It's avoidance.
Matt (host):Right. Exactly. So anxiety has been at the helm of a young person's day to day existence steering their choices, their moods and sometimes even their relationships, what does it look like to move forward toward healing and freedom?
Martha Metzler:Yeah, I think we experience freedom kind of when we have this mindset shift of like, okay, I'm experiencing anxiety but it's just a part of who I am. It's not all of who I am. And I have everything that I need to respond to this with purpose so that it leads me to smoother edges. And so we can kind of manage it with our coping skills, our toolbox, a good community, isolating. You know, we know enough now, which is this great, you know, awareness of neuroplasticity of the fact that our brain can learn a different way.
Martha Metzler:And so I think that our freedom comes when we know that, you know, anxiety is gonna be a part of life. It just is. We're human. But we do get to make sure we show ourselves and we show up for ourselves to not let it get bigger than we are. And so with the right responses and the discipline, right, like we get to kind of train each time we experience a sandpaper movement or anxiety, like, okay, I have everything that I need to not let this get bigger than I am, and I have everything that I need to manage this.
Martha Metzler:And so we can kind of shift towards, okay, we're gonna cope, I'm gonna recognize my strength and my grit. I am you know, it allows you to start developing. The more you train your brain and train your responses to anxiety, the more confident you get to recognize, okay, I can actually just put anxiety in its place. And it's, I am experiencing some anxiety, but I'm not an anxious person, right? Like not allowing it to become your entire identity.
Martha Metzler:And that you can manage it. You can actually train with a lot of discipline. And unfortunately, it's not a thirty second TikTok quick real fix. It takes daily showing up for yourself towards health and wholeness. But what we know is you're not going to get to those smoother edges without that patience, without that grace for yourself and knowing that grace and grit can go hand in hand.
Martha Metzler:And it's such a freeing dynamic when you allow both those things to coexist by both recognizing what you're feeling, but also recognizing that you can manage it so that it doesn't get bigger than you are and doesn't keep you from living this full life that you were designed to experience, that you were to be a whole person. And that means gonna be some rough stuff too.
Matt (host):Right. It's what Blake said, you know, it's joy and woe. Right. Yeah. They're weaved together.
Matt (host):Exactly. That's the human experience. It's a hopeful message, it's a powerful message. It's not about eliminating every rough edge, it's about, learning to make them smooth out and you grow stronger in the process.
Martha Metzler:Yeah. There was a my oldest son who's sort of like 14 going on 45. And he I was kind of describing some of this to him and this I was like, Man, but y'all just want this quick fix and it's not. Like, I want a quick fix too, but like it's just not. We gotta kinda daily show up.
Martha Metzler:And he's like, Oh, well So you know it's kinda like quicksand because he's a big scout and he loves all things survival.
Matt (host):Right? And,
Martha Metzler:and he said it's like quicksand to where if you're sinking farther and farther down, it's like, okay, you can't wait for someone else to save you and you can't make these big dramatic movements. You actually just have to move like one little movement at a time and then eventually you get to shore. And I was like, well, that's pretty brilliant, bud. Yeah. And I think that's what people can hold on to when they are watching their kids experience sandpaper moments and when they're also parents are experiencing them within themselves.
Martha Metzler:We had the opportunity both to model the way that we move through our own sandpaper moments with hope and purpose. But we also get to shepherd our kids in the way that like, okay, we're in it for the long haul. Like we don't fear it. We could just daily show up with purpose and intention and know that it leads to our smoother edges.
Matt (host):Absolutely. Well Martha, thank you, so much for sharing your insights and giving us, such a vivid and practical framework for parenting with purpose. Your new book is called again Sandpaper Moments. It's available now at local bookstores here in our home base of the Piedmont Triad area of North Carolina, but also on Amazon. And, you can learn more about, Martha at her website, www.marthametzler.com.
Matt (host):And, find Martha also on Instagram marthametzler. And to our audience today, thank you for your time. And if this conversation resonated with you, please do share this episode with another parent who might be navigating their own sandpaper moments. You can also find resources and past episodes at www.nimbleyouthpodcast.com. Until next time, I'm Matt Butterman reminding you that growth often comes through the rough spots.
Matt (host):Let's embrace them together.