Swing Dance Society

On this episode of Exposure, host Tessa Kresch dives into the world of MSU's Swing Dance Society. Guests Rachel and Elijah talk about the history, culture, and impact of swing dancing. Discover how swing dance serves as a creative outlet and a means to foster connections beyond the university setting.

For more information, visit https://www.instagram.com/msu_swing_society/?hl=en or https://www.facebook.com/MichiganStateSwing/

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Exposure provides a forum for student groups and area non-profits at Michigan State University and the Greater Lansing area. On the show, you'll hear discussions about the groups themselves as well as the relevant issues of today.

Tessa Kresch: 00:01

This is exposures on Impact 89 FM.

Elijah: 00:05

W DBM East Lansing.

Tessa Kresch: 00:07

The show that lets you know about everything that goes on at the MSU campus that you otherwise might not know about. Tune in every Sunday at 9 AM. I'm your host, Tessa Creusch. Welcome to exposure. Hello.

Tessa Kresch: 00:20

Hello. And welcome back to exposure. You are listening to season 15. I'm your host, Tessa Creusch. Today, we're stepping into the rhythm of MSU's swing dancing society.

Tessa Kresch: 00:32

This group keeps the East Coast swing spirit alive. With lessons designed for all skill levels, we'll hear from Rachel and Elijah on what makes swing dancing so timeless. Thank you guys so much for joining me today.

Rachel: 00:43

Thank you for having us.

Tessa Kresch: 00:44

Yeah. Of course. Could you guys start by telling me a little bit about yourselves?

Rachel: 00:48

So my name is Rachel Roca. I am a 4th year PhD student in computational math, science, and engineering, which is a really long name. But I do work in education, and I am the current president of the MSU Swing Dance Society.

Elijah: 01:03

And I am Elijah Salahuddin. I am a grad student with the rehabilitation counseling program. I am an e board member at large, and I'm happy to be here.

Tessa Kresch: 01:13

So you guys both have majors not pertaining to the Swing Dancing Society at all. Is that pretty general for your members?

Rachel: 01:20

I would say so. Yes. We actually have a large member of very stressed out grad students. I think it's a a great place to, like, move your body. I think especially with us, I'm usually, like, at a desk.

Rachel: 01:33

So moving your body, being able to dance, but also socialize and listen to cool music. So I think it's a really nice combination of give it getting that movement, but also fulfilling, like, that social cup.

Elijah: 01:43

Yeah. And I can say as somebody who just joined the swing dance club this year as one of those dressed grad students, it really does serve as a great opportunity to make some friends, kind of get adopted by a whole friend group, and have some fun away from classes and all that.

Rachel: 01:58

We are not exclusive to grad students. So we have lots of undergrads, but we are also open to the community as well. And so we have lots of folks who are not affiliated with MSU at all who come join us to dance as well. So it's it's very much a larger community setting.

Tessa Kresch: 02:13

That's amazing. A big thing about swing dancing in general is the fact that it's social dance. Would you say that it's a good opportunity to meet friends? Yeah.

Elijah: 02:20

Actually, that's why I joined swing dancing in my undergrad at a different university. But I had no friends. I would out of state, didn't know anyone. I walked by. There were a bunch of people dancing in great outfits.

Elijah: 02:32

And I was like, I can go over there, make some friends, and it really helps you connect with different people in the community.

Tessa Kresch: 02:39

Elijah said why he joined. Why did you join Rachel?

Rachel: 02:42

So I also started swing dancing when I was in my undergrad, and I fell in love with it. It's just something to be said about spinning so much you can't think straight. Like, there's there's just such joy and a richness of both the tradition, but also new, you know, contemporary joy and, like, celebrating dance in general. And so the first thing I do did when I came to MSU was look to see if there was a swing dancing club I could join. And I was very happy to see that there was.

Rachel: 03:14

And then like Elijah, I just kinda got swept in, and here I am.

Tessa Kresch: 03:18

So you've been involved in the Swing Dancing Society for 4 years now?

Rachel: 03:21

Yes. Yes. And I've I've been on the eboard for 3 years.

Tessa Kresch: 03:25

That is amazing. So let's back up a little bit. What is swing dancing?

Elijah: 03:29

So swing dancing is a a partner dance that kind of started around the twenties. It's an African American centered dance where a lot of men will come together in little dance halls, have a lot of fun, and kind of dance around with each other. And then from there, it really branched out. There's a really cool movie. And if I'm getting the name right, I believe it's called Hells of Poppin'.

Elijah: 03:48

That has is one of, like, the first really good examples of swim and dancing being recorded. There's East Coast. There's Lindy Hop. East Coast is the 6 count. Lindy is 8 count.

Elijah: 03:58

And, yeah, it's just it was an opportunity for people to come together to dance and to kinda celebrate community and movement and creativity.

Rachel: 04:05

Exactly. It was inspired by the abundance of jazz music we saw in, like, the 19 twenties, thirties, and forties. The heart of Lindy Hop is in Harlem in New York City. That's where it kind of exploded, and we saw a lot of ballrooms and dancing and African Americans, like, really celebrating different types of influence, both from more traditional ballroom style dance, but also jazz and tap and, like, these new sounds that were coming about. And then so it started in New York, but it's kind of branched and traveled as people moved.

Rachel: 04:39

And so we have things like West Coast Swing. You know, it was an alternative form that started on the West Coast, things like Balboa. Was, founded in, like, a Pennsylvania not Pennsylvania. Peninsula in California in Balboa. Charleston, for instance.

Rachel: 05:07

So, like, as swing has spread, it has encompassed different variations and different styles.

Tessa Kresch: 05:14

Could you tell me the key differences between these styles?

Elijah: 05:17

My first thought is this step. So if every single swing dance kinda has a core aspect to it with regard to, like, the foundation, but then the steps and how you move can be different. So whether they consist of triple steps, whether they consist of kicks, and how that dance is formed and structured and how they look is main difference. So it might all be swing in that overall category, but the steps and the movements can be different.

Rachel: 05:43

We also see things I agree. Also things like tempos and stuff like that. Certain dances are better suited for different tempos or or rhythms, for instance. So, like, Balboa, is very good for faster songs and enclosed spaces. So you're dancing in, like, a crowded a crowded room.

Rachel: 06:02

You don't wanna bump into people. So there are some dances, you know, that maybe are a little bit more close quarters and somewhere you can kind of go forth and show yourself.

Tessa Kresch: 06:19

So with all these different kinds of styles of swing, do they have different kinds of music?

Elijah: 06:24

Some do. There are some songs that are made specific for certain dances. But the great thing about a lot of swing music is that the dances and the music are pretty flexible. So if you're like, oh, this song is pretty fast, but it still has that 8 count rhythm, you can dance any 8 count song to it. Sometimes even a 6 count song to it as well.

Rachel: 06:45

So we know that the that these dances were born out of, like, the jazz era, the twenties to fifties. We do try to play a wide range of music. Folks have different tastes. They wanna sometimes dance to things they know. They wanna also listen to some of these songs.

Rachel: 06:59

So we do try to play a a wide variety of songs that you do have those counts that you can still hear and dance to, and so the steps work. But so we normally play at at like a century's worth of music kind of covering a mix of everything.

Tessa Kresch: 07:14

That is fantastic. I guess I always thought that swing was associated with a certain kind of music. So that's really interesting that you really can dance to any 8 count song.

Rachel: 07:22

It depends on where you dance. There's things like modern swing or 2 step or country swing where folks have been also introducing a lot more contemporary country pop songs. So it depends on the community. Some folks think you should only dance to these decades of music. Some folks open it up a little bit more.

Rachel: 07:39

So it is not a consensus among swing dancers. Can you highlight a song that you associate with swing?

Elijah: 07:45

The first one that I thought of was Ain't That A Kick in the Head. I love that song.

Rachel: 07:55

It's a

Elijah: 07:55

very nice song. I think it is in that era too.

Rachel: 08:01

My favorite song till Lindy Hopes You is Solid as a Rock.

Elijah: 08:11

Solid as a Rock is good.

Tessa Kresch: 08:17

So when you walk into one of these Swing Dance Society's meetings or practices, what does it look like? Set the scene for me.

Rachel: 08:25

Yeah. So our normal so we meet every Thursday from 6:30 to 9:30. There's no expectation to stay the whole time. It's kind of broken up into 2 parts. So, expectation to stay the whole time.

Rachel: 08:34

It's kind of broken up into 2 parts. So we have our intermediate lessons from 6:30 to 7:15, and then beginner lessons from 7:15 to 8. So every week, folks are welcome to join. You don't have to have any experience. You could walk in without a partner, without ever danced before, and you're welcome, and we can get you up to speed and knowing at least the basic footwork in a in a turn or 2.

Rachel: 08:59

And those lessons, again, are open for everyone and there are no cost. And then from 8 to 9:30, we have social dance. So we play music, folks dance with each other. We'll do some line dances. It's a good time just to socialize.

Rachel: 09:12

And you mentioned the partner. So do people typically dance with the same partner every time?

Tessa Kresch: 09:17

Are you encouraged to switch?

Elijah: 09:19

Yeah. So, generally, we rotate during the lessons. So when you're there, everybody gets paired up with a lead and a follow, which are just the lead usually initiates movement and the follow responds to the movement. Yeah. And as we do the practice, we'll rotate.

Elijah: 09:34

So you might be dancing with 1 person, then we'll say rotate, and you'll have another person that goes you'll then go ahead and dance with. And then once you transition to open dance, anybody can ask anybody to dance with anybody else. But also if somebody does have a specific individual they'd like to practice with, we don't prevent them from just practicing with that person.

Tessa Kresch: 09:52

So we talked about these beginner and intermediate lessons. What did those look like?

Rachel: 09:57

Yeah. So they change weekly. Our beginner lessons, we always set up in a way that we want people to feel included for open dance. So we wanna make sure that they can do the basic steps, that they know at least 1 or 2 turns so that they feel comfortable asking someone to dance or for someone to ask them to dance and they feel empowered to do so. Intermediate changes, I think, a bit more than beginner.

Rachel: 10:26

And so sometimes we'll look at different types of swing dancing. We'll do Charleston series or Lindy Hop. Our beginner lessons are primarily East Coast. We will be having a West Coast series. Sometimes we invite different people to come to come dance.

Rachel: 10:43

But we really do kind of a ride range of things, and we we have different people teach. So the eboard kind of rotates as well as some outside folks.

Tessa Kresch: 10:50

What would you say is the most important skill for someone to learn swing dancing?

Elijah: 10:55

Why don't you just like the word acceptance of, like, yourself, of the dance, of the movement, of just letting yourself exist, try things out, have fun, be creative. Because my favorite thing about swing has always been the ability to be creative and find find out how you want to do the dance and how you wanna move. I think that's what makes swing a very unique dance style is that you can really create your your version of the dance while you're dancing it. And then also, you can connect with another person and then both of you can create how you 2 dance together. So I think that love love just kinda learning how to move, learn how to have fun with it, learn how to be silly.

Elijah: 11:39

But there's not too many places where you can't just be silly and goofy and fun sometimes. And so I think when you come into swing, it's like a new opportunity to rediscover yourself.

Rachel: 11:50

Yeah. I I think that's super true. And I I love to see the progression of just something simple. You get so much more comfortable, I think, as you get used to swing dancing with yourself, but also other people. And so it's always fun to see during lessons, like, one thing is, okay, getting comfortable in our holds.

Rachel: 12:07

Right? Like, what does it mean to be holding somebody's hand or having a hand on their shoulder for 2 or 3 minutes? And it's so funny to see as people get more comfortable with that, like in lessons, people are just like casually leaning on each other, holding hands. And I think that feels really nice. There's some way of just like relaxing into it, relaxing into your partner, relaxing into the music, and, like, just getting into that pulse and that rhythm, relaxing, like, into the floor.

Rachel: 12:33

So, like, you're really to think of the floor as, like, your 3rd dance partner. Right? And so I think very similarly accepting, relaxing, trusting in your body, your partner. We try to create as, like, safe and inclusive space as possible and just letting yourself go and relaxing into that pulse.

Tessa Kresch: 12:50

That's really beautiful. And for someone who walks in and might not know how to dance, maybe they consider themselves having 2 left feet. How would you go about teaching them?

Elijah: 12:59

Sometimes, when I tell people about swing and they say, I don't know how to dance, I say, I can teach you right now. And I think a lot of it is showing that dancing is just a way of moving. And so it's just a series of skills and techniques to get used to at the end of the day. Right? And so showing people that they have the capacity to learn, they have the

Rachel: 13:19

capacity to

Elijah: 13:19

move, and also showing that, you know, it's them learning how to move in the way that they like to move. I think that's how I usually do it. I'm just breaking it down to really simple like, here are the steps. Step in left, step in right. You got that down.

Elijah: 13:33

Now we step backwards. Boom. You bring those together. Now that's the the basic step.

Tessa Kresch: 13:38

And now you can dance.

Elijah: 13:39

Yeah. And I think it shows people there's a lot of that anxiety about worrying about being bad or worrying about being awkward. But showing, in one case, alright, let's just be bad and awkward because there's nothing wrong with that. But also, you can achieve and you can persevere and you can figure things out. And I think that level of empowerment and showing people that they can do things is something that I like a lot as, like, a a dance instructor.

Rachel: 14:03

I think one thing we also try to really cultivate is, like, a no judgment zone. So you never I've never at least seen in the 4 years I've been in the club, anyone even making jokes or making fun of anyone's. Like, there's none of that. So, like, you show up as you are, you try your best, you have fun. Like, that's all I care about.

Rachel: 14:22

I think one really cool thing about swing dancing is that there isn't, like, one right way to swing. It's built on improvisation. It's built on creativity. It's built on comfort between you and your partner in the music. And so even when we're we're dancing, like, we don't teach choreography.

Rachel: 14:40

We'll teach combinations. We'll teach turns. We'll teach footwork, but every dance is different. And so I try to encourage folks who feel skeptical. You can dance however you want to dance and, like, we support you and we're we're here for it.

Rachel: 14:56

So sometimes with beginners, we'll just spend 3 minutes, like, doing the basic footwork. We won't do any turns and that's totally fine. And I support that. And it's, again, getting people comfortable and building that confidence.

Tessa Kresch: 15:10

So you're kind of equipping them with tools to then improvise. Mhmm.

Rachel: 15:14

Absolutely. Would you guys consider yourselves dancers before you started swing?

Elijah: 15:18

Not really.

Rachel: 15:19

Yeah. I did like the, you know, the ballet and stuff when I was young. I actually had a lot of health issues. So there were several years where I couldn't walk, and I was on crutches a lot and pain a lot. So swing dancing, I think was a way for me to like come back and celebrate my body when I was able to move it and like find joy in that way.

Rachel: 15:42

So it was something I kind of always wanted to do. And then once I was doing it, I was like, this is great. Great. This is where I wanna be.

Tessa Kresch: 15:49

Does the organization mainly do these meetups or do you

Rachel: 15:54

guys do performances as well? We mostly have our our just Thursdays. We occasionally have other events. So for instance, November 16th, we have our fall flings. So we'll have our live jazz band and demonstration hall.

Rachel: 16:09

People sometimes use this as excuse and opportunity to, like, get dressed up. And so instead of our normal just DJing Spotify, it's really cool to dance with a band. And it's also super cool when you're dancing live. You react to the band, but also the band reacts to you while you're dancing, which is super duper awesome. And so I know in the summer, some of us did the, like, a COGS performance.

Elijah: 16:36

Yeah. So sometimes I believe we were asked to do, like, a little bit of a dance performance at the the graduate event where a lot where all the graduate students came together with a little bit of a dance in front of the stage. There are some opportunities where people want swing dances to participate. We can come showcase some of our skills. It also helps show the organization and bring some people in.

Tessa Kresch: 16:58

I wanna hear a little bit about this fall fling. Did you guys do this last year as well?

Rachel: 17:03

We try to do it on a yearly basis. Sometimes we get to do it both semesters. Sometimes it's it's 1 or or the other, just depending on organizational logistics, schedules, funding, stuff like that. So those are things that we always consider, but it's it's always a ton of fun. We have a lesson.

Rachel: 17:22

We'll do a beginner lesson for the first hour. So, again, you don't need to know how to dance. You don't have to have come to an event, one of our meetings beforehand. It's open to everyone, both in the MSU community and in the the broader, like, greater Lansing community. It's in demonstration hall, but there'll be there'll be snacks.

Rachel: 17:42

There'll be great music. There'll be lots of dancing, and we usually do a craft. So we need to figure that out. Awesome. I'm on

Tessa Kresch: 17:49

the edge of my seat. You said November 16th?

Rachel: 17:51

November 16th. Open the lesson starts at 8. It goes to 11. Like any of our events, we don't we're very lax, and so I think that's a a strength of us. So people show up when they want to.

Rachel: 18:04

Some people just show up for social dance. Some people show up for only one lesson. People leave early when they want to. There's no, like, real commitment. It's do what you can, show up when you can.

Rachel: 18:13

We're always happy to have you.

Tessa Kresch: 18:15

We talked about it a little bit earlier, but swing dancing has a rich history. It's kind of nostalgic at this point. What do you see for it for the future?

Elijah: 18:23

It's just a fun way to engage and interact with people. The swing community as a whole, I've done things called dance exchanges. We will travel to cities for, like, a weekend, sometimes a whole week, learn new dance moves and connect with new people. And I think it's a it's a really fun hobby. It's growing.

Elijah: 18:41

It's really pretty to look at. I'm sure you could go on any social media and sometimes see people in floofy dresses and nice suits and they dancing around. It's just really fun. And I've made a lot of friends through the the dance community. I've been dancing for about 9 years now.

Elijah: 18:56

I think it's strong. You could look at the I believe it's called international Lindy Hop championships or American Lindy Hop championships and see, you know, if somebody's like, I wonder how far I can go with the dance. You can look at those. You can say, wow. There's so much creativity and expression I can do.

Elijah: 19:13

You know, I know what to do with my my wedding. I'm about to get wedding, married. Wedding, married. I know what to do because, you know, it's it's fun to learn how to dance. It's a a really big community with a lot of people, and there's so much growth and expression that's in it that I think it's it's it's just fun.

Rachel: 19:30

One really amazing thing, like you said, how much it's grown, and it's it's not just in the US. There's a lot of really amazing swing dancing scenes all over the world and bringing different regional variations. I mean, I spent some time in in Hungary and I was so surprised. I was swing dancing like 3 times a week. Wow.

Rachel: 19:52

I didn't speak Hungarian, but I didn't need to. And it was so, so cool to be able to just dance with people and find that, like, instant connection

Tessa Kresch: 20:02

Right.

Rachel: 20:02

Without knowing the language, without knowing, like, all of their culture. But just being able to have that connection was just super impactful and and and powerful.

Elijah: 20:15

Yeah. I think the great thing about swing is that we mentioned that it's very flexible. I have danced with people who would combine ballet with swing dancing. I don't know how, but it was really cool to kinda see different influences in people's dancing. I think that's something that's incredibly unique with swing is that it can be so different from place to place, from culture to culture because it's so accepting of different ideas and different movements.

Elijah: 20:46

There was one person, they could tap dance while they swing dance. And I had to wrap my head around how that was possible because you could you could hear the rhythm of the music and the rhythm of their feet. And you're like, you stop dancing because you're like, you're just such a cool person to be in the presence of. And, yeah, it's I think the the flexibility and the uniqueness really make it a great way to just show off and create the kind of dance that you wanna dance.

Tessa Kresch: 21:14

That is amazing. Would you say that there's any misconceptions about the art form?

Rachel: 21:19

I think one that we work really hard in our club is, like, gender roles. So a lot of the times, I think when you when you think about people swing dancing or ballroom dancing, you you have this picture of, like, the man leading and the woman following, and that's, like, the tradition the traditional role. Right. We work really hard to kinda dispel that. And so as Elijah was referencing, we always use lead and follow.

Rachel: 21:48

We don't, like, attach genders to it. I lead and follow. A lot of people in the club go back and forth and have different preferences. We have a lot of, like, queer and non binary folks, and I I think that being attentive to those misconceptions and making sure that we broaden participation for the art form is is is super important. So people don't feel excluded because they don't fit into this binary and that they can be in whatever role they they want to.

Rachel: 22:19

And that can change from song to song. I mean, it could change within songs. I have really fun dances sometimes where you can do the thing of, like, steal the lead. So, like, there isn't really one, like, lead or follow in any song. You're just kind of playing back and forth with it.

Elijah: 22:33

And one that I've seen is the idea that you have to do something specific. Sometimes you get into a dance and you get really worried about whether or not you're doing a good job at dancing. You can get wrapped up in focusing so much on, am I doing a good job at dancing, that you you stop having fun. And I know for a lot of people who are new, you can get wrapped up in moves. And that's one thing that I try to and I think the club does a really good job at it too, is making sure, hey.

Elijah: 22:59

We're here to have fun. We're here to express ourselves and to kind of let go of the idea that you have to do or be something specific while you dance.

Rachel: 23:08

I think another thing we try to focus on a lot is consent, which I think is super important. So with social dance or even in lessons, we don't wanna impose anyone in a situation they're uncomfortable with. And so there can sometimes be pressure in in some situations where you're asked to dance and you're like, but do I wanna dance? Maybe I don't wanna dance this song. And so we try to make it very clear.

Rachel: 23:32

We actually demonstrate every single night after a lesson about that. It's okay to say no, and you don't need to have an excuse. And if you dance less one night, that doesn't mean anything about you or anything like that. You're allowed to kind of figure out how you wanna express yourself, when you wanna express yourself. And all of those boundaries are important and healthy and encouraged and that we don't want there to be any pressure.

Tessa Kresch: 23:58

I'm so glad you brought that up because it is so important with something as intimate as dancing with someone and touching someone. It's very good that you guys are emphasizing consent and boundaries.

Elijah: 24:08

I realized that we're so good at being consistent about it. I didn't even think about it as a thing we do because we're so natural about making sure we talk about it regularly.

Rachel: 24:17

Yeah. But I've been in different, like, swing scenes where it's like someone just kinda grabbed me. Mhmm. Like where there isn't that asking of like, oh, can I dance? Like the hands out and then all of a sudden you were being pulled in.

Rachel: 24:27

Right. And I'm sure that threw you off guard. Sometimes that can throw you off guard and sometimes you're like, okay, I'll just go with it. And then sometimes you're like, wait, what? So we never wanna put people in a position where they don't feel like they have the autonomy or that agency to, like, make those choices about their bodies.

Elijah: 24:44

A lot of times when I travel for dancing, for me, it was a good litmus test of the dance culture.

Rachel: 24:50

Mhmm.

Elijah: 24:50

Whether or not they talked about consent and agency and how they defined leading and following in roles. Because, you know, sometimes it's like, okay, what does that say about specific expectations that might be here? And am I comfortable with that because and so much of my foundational dancing, consent was always part of every single lesson. And we had that opportunity to kind of demonstrate and practice saying and receiving a no. That way, they can say, okay, this is normal.

Elijah: 25:20

This is what's expected. This is how to respond. You're all good.

Tessa Kresch: 25:24

For members and for you guys, would you say a lot of people are intending on continuing swing dance beyond college?

Elijah: 25:31

There are some people who continue beyond college. There's some people who don't. I think it's there's a lot of variance. I think it depends a lot on the area where they learn. Where I did swing dancing, you know, it was a big statewide thing.

Elijah: 25:44

So there were a lot of opportunities for me to continue all in dancing. Some people leave and come back. So I think I think everybody has a different swing dance journey.

Rachel: 25:54

It doesn't it certainly doesn't have to be limited to a campus experience. The first time I learned to dance, actually, the first time I swing danced was in Grand Rapids. Grand Rapids actually has a a huge swing dance society. That's not that's not linked to any, like, educational organization. And there's a lot of those all over where people just wanna come together and dance, and I think that's super beautiful.

Rachel: 26:19

It it just feeds me mind, body, and and soul. And so, I I think a lot of people in our club experience that in some sense, and I hope that they feel empowered that after they leave our group that they feel like they can search out other opportunities to dance in ways that ways that suit them and to continue kind of exploring. Like you said, that that journey, whatever that looks like for them.

Tessa Kresch: 26:47

I really like the idea of this being a space to kind of escape from university and all the stressors in your life. And it's amazing that it's just so many busy people who are making a choice to be there and move their bodies and meet some friends. And where can people find more information about the Swing Dancing Society?

Rachel: 27:06

Yeah. So we are on Facebook and Instagram. So you could find us on Instagram atmsu_swing_society. We are also on Facebook. If you just search MSU swing, you'll find both our home, like, club page, but also there is just an MSU swing community page.

Rachel: 27:28

So if you're interested at looking at other events in the area, such as Ann Arbor, Grand Rapids, even some things in Lansing that you can you can find what other swing communities are doing in the area to join them. And then we always have our mailing list that can be joined.

Tessa Kresch: 27:44

So if someone's interested in getting involved, their first step would be going to that Instagram, that Facebook, and going to a beginner class?

Rachel: 27:52

Yeah. Yeah. I think that would be the great first step.

Tessa Kresch: 27:56

And that's it for today's show. Thank you to everyone who's involved in the making of this podcast. If you like what you've heard, come back next week. I'm Tessa Creche. You've been listening to Exposure.

Tessa Kresch: 28:07

Thank you guys so much. This was this week's episode of Exposure. Keep in mind that the views and opinions discussed on Exposure are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect those of the staff at Impact 89 FM. If you're interested in going back and listening to our archive of stories, feel free to check out our website at impact89fm.org. And of course, if you're interested in what's going on next week, you can tune back in and we'll see you back here.

Tessa Kresch: 28:33

You've been listening to Exposed.