The Studio Demands It!

S7 EP11 | 35 years ago, Freddy Krueger was destroyed in Freddy's Dead: The Final Nightmare. The studio asks that all other Elm Street lore (New Nightmare, Freddy vs. Jason, and the 2013 reboot) be disregarded and a legacy sequel be pitched. What is the Dream Demon's place in a filmic world of Backrooms and James Wan films? 


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Creators and Guests

Host
Jim Burzelic
Host
T.C. De Witt

What is The Studio Demands It!?

Two screenwriters attempt to recreate, reimagine, or flat out fix, existing film franchises when 'the studio' demands...MORE FILMS! It's an exercise in creative thinking where they will challenge themselves to conceptualize, pitch, and craft a film based on the stipulations of a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. | Sixfive Media

T.C.:

Terminator. Terminator. Alright. Hello, and welcome to the Studio Demands It, a screenwriting series where we will conceptualize, pitch, and craft a film or show based on the demands from one of you listeners acting as a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. Overlord.

T.C.:

As professional screenwriters ourselves and massive cinephiles, we talk movies all the time. Movies. And we'd like to believe that we could meet any demand thrown at us right here on the spot. We will be your screenwriters for this episode. I am T.

T.C.:

C. De Witt. And joining me as always, is Jim OS Burzelic. Hello, Jim. What's your what's what is he what is your operating system?

T.C.:

I'm I'm curious. I I'm assuming that's what the OS stands for.

Jim:

It's a it's It a used to be beef jerky and Doctor Pepper.

T.C.:

Oh. Oh, yeah. That that was

Jim:

not operating system. But, you know, this this hardware is getting a bit older. Mhmm. Mhmm. And I gotta I gotta upgrade to to the newer Yeah.

T.C.:

The newer models nowadays. What is it? It's Centrum silver and Yeah.

Jim:

And and just a big glass of water. You

T.C.:

you showed me this thing a couple days ago that Terminator you did the Terminator thing that's what triggered this.

Jim:

Yeah.

T.C.:

Yeah. Terminator is Mac and Robocop is PC. Yeah. What what was this again? It was in

Jim:

the code some other guy two other white guys podcast.

T.C.:

Oh, okay.

Jim:

And they they they noted that that if you if you look at when the code is on the screen, when we see through their perspective Mhmm. We get to see commands, and Robocop has MS DOS commands. Right? Dot e x e, dot s y s files. And when we get Terminator Vision, you can see Apple.

Jim:

You can see Macintosh commands like QuickTime QuickTime.

T.C.:

And stuff like that. QuickTime file. Let's see. Hello. I'm a

Jim:

Mac, and I'm a PC. Barney if you want to live. Or alive. Yeah. You're computing with me.

Jim:

Yeah. There you go.

T.C.:

It's a a keen observation. It's one of those things that, like, no one ever ever would have been able to clock that little Easter egg if it weren't for the pause feature Mhmm. That was developed with home media that now in the Internet age, it's not just pausing. Now you can go frame by single frame.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

And and I feel bad for it sucks because, like, there are artists and and creators out there, filmmakers out there, animated movie artists, but filmmakers who who put little Easter eggs in there just for themselves. Mhmm. They they weren't trying to, like, get anything over on someone. Sometimes there's some pretty awful things in the Disney movies, but, like, having a single frame of, like, a nudie picture in I can't remember what animated movie oh, The Rescuers. There's a Playboy calendar.

Jim:

Oh, is

T.C.:

there? And, like, one single frame of it, and the courtesy of the pause feature, someone found it and was like, this parent group is gonna burn you

Jim:

down, rescuers. Subliminal. Yeah. Children all focused and saw that.

T.C.:

The Tyler Durden method of slipping in frames from porn.

Jim:

Yep. Oh,

T.C.:

is that a

Jim:

did we did we see that? Did we just see a giant Giant children just A giant giant giant thing.

T.C.:

He did more than a frame. That that that was on screen just a bit too too much. Oh my gosh. Well, anyway, your OS system seems to be working really well.

Jim:

Oh, that's good.

T.C.:

I don't hear the fan running right now, so you obviously are cool enough.

Jim:

Yeah. Yeah. This this program doesn't doesn't take too many doesn't generate that much heat.

T.C.:

Oh, okay. Cool. Yeah. Well well, is your operating system ready to do the demand for the day? It is.

T.C.:

Great. Oh, no. The heat. Alright. Well, Jim, our listeners have given us demands from studios all over the world, literally all over the world.

T.C.:

And you, you listening right now. Hey, I know you're new here. You might not know this, but you can send us any demand you'd like, and we will have to meet it right here on the spot. And when we reach the end of the episode, if we've done our jobs, we'll have pitched a full script. And when the end of the season comes, your demand could have helped us craft the script that will be greenlit by the fans for our fully produced feature length finale.

T.C.:

So thank you to everyone who has submitted. Please keep them coming. Today's demand let me bring it up here. Alright. This comes from Paulie at Bladefist Studios.

T.C.:

Okay. A Nightmare on Elm Street made six movies, but the franchise really okay. Made six movies, but the franchise because they made they made more than six movies. Yes. But okay.

T.C.:

Sorry, Polly. I didn't mean to interrupt. Six movies. But the franchise really found its footing in the trilogy of three, four, and five, which showed us that people could actually become powerful inside dreams and fight back. One of the things that always fascinated my studio is that there were hints that Freddie wasn't the only dream entity in existence.

T.C.:

What else is out there to face from the dream realm? Using the mythology of one through six and ignoring everything after Freddie's dead, give us a legacy sequel that feels like the best parts of Dream Warriors and Dream Master, Equal parts horror, imagination, and dark comedy. It's been thirty five years since Freddie thirty five years? Is that right? Yeah.

T.C.:

Thirty five years since Freddie was last seen? That can't be true. Yep. What what going on Wait. Wait.

T.C.:

Wait. Going up.

Jim:

T.C. Yeah. What year do you think it is?

T.C.:

Oh, no. Year is it?

Jim:

It's 1996.

T.C.:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes it '91.

T.C.:

Oh, because we're forget we're not using, like, Freddie versus Jason. Yeah. Because that would be in the '2 thousands. Yeah. And New Nightmare is not on the table?

T.C.:

Yeah. Okay. Okay. So then 1991.

Jim:

New Nightmare frames all of the Nightmare on Elm Street movies as fiction within that movie Mhmm. That is just utilized as symbolism, as as as a a face to take for the entity in that movie.

T.C.:

Got it. Okay. So thirty five years

Jim:

set. It was literally Wes Craven's first cinema commentary movie Before before making Scream.

T.C.:

Nice. Yeah, Wes. It's been thirty five years since Freddie was last seen after his daughter, Maggie Burrows, defeated him. Who are the dream warriors now?

Jim:

It was Molly.

T.C.:

Is it Molly? No. Oh, I'm checking. You can Okay. Read Yeah.

T.C.:

Would would would Polly, the Studio, get that wrong? Okay. Who are the dream warriors now? Is there a group protecting us? What are they fighting?

T.C.:

And most importantly of all, will Freddy Krueger ever return? Alright. Thank you, Paulie. Did you catch all that, Jim? Or

Jim:

you I did.

T.C.:

You're focused on your Maggie Maggie Burrows, you're you're you're fact checking that. Because she'd be the cop in six. Right? Or was she a cop?

Jim:

No. Not not a cop.

T.C.:

She was like a social worker. Right? Yeah. Okay. That's the that's the town.

T.C.:

It's it's ten years after four or five, and Freddie has taken over entire town and killed all the kids.

Jim:

Oh my god. Yeah. All that's coming up is freaking podcasts that are about

T.C.:

this. Well, that's what we're doing here now. So Polly, thank you for sending that in, and we will we're gonna dive in here. So this is a legacy sequel to A Nightmare on Elm Street. Okay.

Jim:

That sixth movie

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Is not called A Nightmare on Elm Street. It's just called It's called Freddy's Dead, the final nightmare.

T.C.:

Oh, okay. Well, I guess it still counts as part of the Freddy Krueger. This

Jim:

And I continue to be wrong.

T.C.:

Oh, is it Maggie? It is Maggie. Okay.

Jim:

Like, because so we did a little bit of prep. We we

T.C.:

We knew the studio was gonna ask us something Nightmare on Elm Street related.

Jim:

Yeah. And so we we we did a little bit of research, and we we watched some recaps.

T.C.:

Yes. We watched. We we refreshed our you know, you could have not admitted that and the audience could

Jim:

have just assumed we were But I have I because we just watched it and I could've swore, but I'm wrong. That's okay. I I no. I can't I can't do it. I can't ever not.

Jim:

That's okay. I gotta say, I I always say how the sausage is made.

T.C.:

Well, to to remind you, you named our female lead in the Wolfman, Molly.

Jim:

Right.

T.C.:

So maybe that's that's in Maybe. Can is your fan operating right now? Like, is the fan

Jim:

okay. I'm overheating. Okay. There you go.

T.C.:

Okay. So, yeah, you're Maggie. Who are the dream orgs? Think the key factor here is that Polly pointed out is that.

Jim:

What we what we didn't do in our recap is find out the reference he's making to other dream beings. I mean, obviously, the the weird fish monsters, the weird fish demons that come out of him in

T.C.:

the final nightmare. Says that it's that there's some sort of hint to I mean, we'll just take him for his word that there well, isn't there something about Freddie gets his powers from demons?

Jim:

Yeah. Could it could they they show us in that movie when when he's finally hit with the fire when the the parents burn him up. Yeah. As he's about to get burned up, these demon things Okay. Appear to him, and they're like, hey.

Jim:

Hey. We'll give you some powers.

T.C.:

You wanna keep killing kids?

Jim:

Powers to kill kids. He's like, yes. Yes. I don't wanna burn alive. I'm like, great.

Jim:

You gotta burn alive, though. Bye. Yay. And then yeah. And they're they're now the the unicorns from Charlie the Unicorn.

T.C.:

Hey, Freddie. Hi.

Jim:

Oh, my god.

T.C.:

You wanna kill you wanna keep killing? Make some knife clothes. Okay. So a legacy sequel now, I my relationship with Nightmare on Elm Street is pretty minimal. I I can remember an image of the first thing I ever saw from these movies when I was very young, too young to to I'd my brother was probably watching it on, like, WGN in the afternoon.

T.C.:

Mhmm. And I came my sister and I came downstairs, and we were, like, peeking around the bottom of the stairs to see what was on the TV. And I can just vividly remember, it's a kid in a bathroom stall, and he looks down, and there's these little, like, slug things that are just, like, shooting around the bathroom in in some sort of nightmare scenario. That might not even be from Nightmare on Elm Street, but my mind says it my memory says it was. And then me and my sister were scared by and cried, and then my brother got in trouble.

T.C.:

He shouldn't have gotten in trouble. No. We snuck down there. Yeah. That's bad parenting on my parents' part.

Jim:

I mean, it is, but also they didn't want your brother watching that.

T.C.:

He was fine. But, yeah, he probably shouldn't have been watching it.

Jim:

Yeah. Yeah.

T.C.:

You shouldn't have been watching it and your your brother and sister saw it. Now they're scared. Yeah. I was more afraid of Bigfoot, so it's fine. I thought Bigfoot would stand outside my window and scare me.

T.C.:

He did. What? Oh, god. I'm glad I'm on a 2nd Floor now. Wait.

T.C.:

How tall is Bigfoot?

Jim:

He's really

T.C.:

Oh, no. He's normal height,

Jim:

just real Bigfoot feet. That's why that's his name.

T.C.:

He's five foot eleven. Yep. Anyway, so my relationship with Nightmare on Elm Street is is limited to that experience. And then when Freddie versus Jason came out, I loved it. I was like, this is great.

T.C.:

It's insane. It's stupid. It knows it's dumb. It's just having a great time. And I I joke I said, that's my favorite one.

T.C.:

And then when we rewatched it, you were like, that's your favorite one, Yes. For nostalgia purposes, it is. But do you what's your like, had you seen them all before?

Jim:

Yes. Okay. In third or fourth grade is when I first learned about Freddie. I hadn't seen any of them, but other kids in my class were telling me about them. Mhmm.

Jim:

And I was terrified of Freddie. Yeah. And then I finally got to see Nightmare on Elm Street. Some of I'd it wasn't I didn't start with the first one. I think I started I started with four.

Jim:

Four is the memory that I have. Mhmm. The the the Dream Master. Dream Master. And I saw it on Super eighteen, a UHF station.

T.C.:

Oh, man.

Jim:

So it was edited for television, which meant all the scariest parts were cut out. And so I thought the movie was more terrifying than it was. Like, I by that point, I was in middle school. Yeah. So I I wasn't I wasn't terrified at the so right.

Jim:

So fourth grade, not allowed to see any of it. My imagination ran wild, terrified of Freddie. Yeah. Two, three years later, I'm in middle school, and I'm starting to become fascinated with all this stuff. And I see it edited for television, and my imagination goes wild filling in the most violent scenes.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And it's phenomenal. I think it's the best thing. Several years later, I'm in high school. I can finally rent these from Blockbuster, And I do, and I see them unedited. They're not nearly as scary.

Jim:

And I'm like, oh, I can appreciate seeing them in the r rated version, but, oh, I I got an appreciation for edited for a weird appreciation and understanding of that horror notion of less is more Mhmm. Mhmm. From I never put that together. I learned that lesson in storytelling from Nightmare on Elm Street being edited for television.

T.C.:

Amazing. Your your brain will fill in the gaps. Yeah. Your and it will make it much more terrifying than it ever could be on screen. Well, not ever, but pretty much ever

Jim:

Yeah. On screen. So from there, I saw I eventually saw all of them. Mhmm. But four was always my biggest memory.

Jim:

And I think her name was Debbie, the the health the health nut in four. Mhmm. The the way I always remember her like, we we just saw her face, and she didn't look anything like it. She has the big hair, but I always in my mind, to still, she looks like Tory from Saved by the Bell. Do you remember that character?

Jim:

Yeah. Of course. She's, like, two or three episodes Yeah. She's in the bus that everyone loved, and then she just disappears.

T.C.:

She we we we learned all about Tori. If you go back in time and listen to our our sitcom. Remember the nineties sitcom episode? Tori is our hero in that.

Jim:

But in in my mind She looks like Tori. Looks like Tori. Yeah.

T.C.:

Well, knowing as much as I do now about Nightmare on Elm Street, I did a lot of research for Friday the thirteenth when I worked on that project. Mhmm. Got to work on that thirteenth movie. And I did my research on Friday Friday thirteenth, so I certainly developed an extensive knowledge of that franchise. Going into Nightmare on Elm Street and and picking it up over time, like going and watching, I hadn't seen all six.

T.C.:

I'd seen probably like one, three, four, maybe the sixth one. Had like Breckenmeyer sort of stuck out in my head because he's in that one. Mhmm. But now now having engaged in it, like, oh, we also watched the movies that made us and that gave me an even another level of appreciation for what Wes Wes created. So knowing all that, we we have a lot of we have a deep well to draw from here.

T.C.:

Mhmm. Going off this this idea of a legacy sequel, it's been thirty five years since Freddie has been seen. The questions again are, who are the dream warriors now? Is there a group protecting us? What are they fighting?

T.C.:

And most importantly of all, will Freddie Krueger ever return? I I easily the most successful legacy sequel of all time has gotta be Top Gun Maverick. Sure. So just as a starting point there, I think Freddie has to come back. Right?

Jim:

Can you I think so. Yes. Unless unless we name this so differently. I, like, I don't think we could call it A Nightmare on Elm Street without having Freddie. Right.

T.C.:

Yeah. And then but then to that point, just because he's the legacy character, would think he would have to come back. Now I'm not saying we have to bring him back because even our demand isn't to bring him back. It said it said, will he?

Jim:

It's what else is out in this world?

T.C.:

The the it seems to me the most interesting thing is other dream entities that need fighting. But maybe there's a way to craft this so that the the fear and the specter of Freddy Krueger is the threat, and then he he manifests himself halfway through the movie or he returns at some point bigger, better, and stronger than he ever was before. Buff Freddie's back.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

But yeah. So I I don't know what's the best way to attack this. Do we think about what the villain is? Do we think or the threat is? Who are the dream warriors is a fair assessment here because if three gave us anything, it was the x men.

T.C.:

Like, it was a it was a

Jim:

Sort of. It it what three did is it finally delved into the into the notion of, well, if Freddie lives in dreams Mhmm. What are your dreams? And people dream about the things they like and the things they want to be. Mhmm.

Jim:

And teenagers particularly have have their their likes and desires. That's what the dreams are. And then Freddie will go into them and and spoil them and kill you with them.

T.C.:

Yeah. Use your own dreams against you. Yeah. Welcome to prime time, bitch.

Jim:

So so that that's really what happens there.

T.C.:

Well, also, movies are allegorical. The second one, for all for how maligned it is, is a very clear metaphor for being a closeted gay man Yeah. Or gay young man.

Jim:

I I think that's the only allegory Okay. Of them.

T.C.:

The the rest aren't they don't delve into, like, abuse or addiction or anything like that.

Jim:

I mean, well, they they touch on it in that, like, the punker in the dream warriors was addicted to heroin. So then in her dream, he's all like, I'm a get you with heroin. Syringe finger. Like, literally, it it zoomed past it. Her her the her needle points Yeah.

Jim:

Start kiss like like, pursing, like like, mouths. They want the needle. They want the needle.

T.C.:

I okay.

Jim:

So so they they do they they touch on addiction in that way.

T.C.:

In that way.

Jim:

They're not allegories for, I'm addicted to my dreams. You just gotta let them go. They, like, they don't do that. They're they're quite literal. Oh, you want some booze?

Jim:

How about we drown in it?

T.C.:

Oh, no. Oh, no.

Jim:

You are the booze, and I'm Freddie, and I'm drinking you.

T.C.:

Oh, Freddie. What a sense of humor on this guy. So okay. Another thought then is how tonally do we attack this? Because Jackie Earl Haley was probably a pretty good successor to Freddy Krueger's legacy, but that move

Jim:

He could've

T.C.:

he could've been. He could've been, but that took itself so seriously that it was just it was the gritty reboot of Freddy Krueger. It came out in the era of, like, gritty reboots for everything. Yeah. And it it just didn't work.

T.C.:

It didn't it missed so much of what why this franchise seemed to have a camp fun to it to begin with for all its disgustingness.

Jim:

It just a a real quick side note. All those gritty reboots happened in, like, the the the the twenty tens Yeah. The teens. What's funny is already by that point, the idea of the gritty reboot had been decades old and lampooned for years. At least a decade.

Jim:

Because gritty reboot like, gritty reboots were still happening then.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Even though they were they were much maligned and and mocked.

T.C.:

I think, you probably could we may have had even had this discussion off Mike once upon a time, but pointing to Batman Begins as sort of the catalyst for everyone going, oh, let's

Jim:

take before few that. Like, literally, Galaxy Quest has has a mock mocking point We're

T.C.:

we're we're splitting hairs on that, like, what what we're determining here. Yeah. Whatever the case, tonally, that twenty eighteen one didn't work. And so there is, in Freddie versus Jason, an actor who we saw, and we're like, holy shit. Why wasn't Zach

Jim:

Zach Ward.

T.C.:

Zach Ward tapped as the new Robert England, Freddie Kruger. Because this that's another problem. Robert England is Freddie Kruger.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

As much as Harrison Ford is Indiana Jones, we, it seems to me, at least for the time, unless we can do otherwise, no one's gonna accept anyone but him, anyone but Robert Englund. And seeing Zach Ward's face and how how he's so he can be so twisted and Mhmm. Has that Scuttfarkas laugh and and he's certainly a lot younger than Robert Englund. Robert Englund is well in his sixties now. So

Jim:

Well, Zach Ward's in his fifties.

T.C.:

He's still younger than Robert Englund. I'm not saying we have to cast him, but it's just so I go back to my main point, tonally, what kind of movie are we gonna make here?

Jim:

That's a good question. Are we going to make A Nightmare on Elm Street? Is it going is that going to be in the title? Because here here's the thing. Here's the premise.

Jim:

If the premise is to explore this world

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Essentially, so in in the year of Mhmm. What the recap we watched talked about these strange time jumps in this movie Yeah. About Springfield. Was Springfield? Springfield, Ohio.

Jim:

Was that the name of the town?

T.C.:

No. It wasn't No. Greenville?

Jim:

Yeah. I don't remember. Something Ohio. Ten years after the dream child is when Freddy's dead takes place, which sets it Springwood. Somewhere in the late nineties.

Jim:

Even though it's in '91 Yeah. Technically, it's it's set somewhere in the mid to late nineties.

T.C.:

Yes. Yeah.

Jim:

I forgot why I'm bringing that up. I'm losing my point.

T.C.:

Or are we going to call it a Nightmare on Elm Street? Right. Because Freddie's If dead was not

Jim:

if we're going to to jump off of that movie, how do we refer to it without immediately going, this is a Freddy movie?

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Basically, I think what we would have to do is we would have to start with some sort of dream clinic.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And they're doing weird cutting edge stuff there. Like, literally, they have a team that's like, no. The the dream it's a realm. We're gonna refer to it as the dream realm. Whatever we we'll call it whatever we need to to get money for funding.

Jim:

Right. But it's this place, and we need people to go explore it. So we have what's som somnambulism is sleepwalking. Right?

T.C.:

Yes. That that I I will take your word for

Jim:

it. Somn somni. Somni is sleep. Ambulate is to walk. That's why it's somnambulism.

Jim:

So somni means sleep? Som I'm trying to invent a word here.

T.C.:

Somnambulism. Somnambulism. Yeah. Somnambulism. There you Everyone has end of their word of the day.

T.C.:

Somnambulism.

Jim:

Because ambulate means to move. Ambulance. Yep. Emergency moving. So somnophobia would be fear of sleep.

Jim:

Yes. What we have is we have somnonauts. Somnonauts.

T.C.:

That is not fun to say.

Jim:

No. It's not. I was hoping for a more fun word. Sleep explorers.

T.C.:

Sleep ex well, having a sleep clinic that's getting some sort of funding to study sleep folk, but there is someone within that's like, hey, while this whole building, this organization is studying sleep behaviors and whatnot and we're funded federally or whatnot, every time we come across someone like you, new main character in this, your dreams are something a little bit different and you have you have something in you that allows you to do more than lucid dreaming. You can literally explore your dreams. Please, we'd like no. No. You're shaking your head.

T.C.:

No.

Jim:

No. Shaking my head. No.

T.C.:

Okay. Okay.

Jim:

No. Like, quite literally, they're a they've they've perfected it.

T.C.:

The face you made.

Jim:

Many decades literally have passed since the last time we've and and literally, they had to have several movies where people are pulling Freddie out of nightmares. They're pulling things into dreams. Yes. They're jumping into each other's dreams. Yeah.

Jim:

And it's only this sideways little jaunt that the people who survive so Maggie, and I think there's at least one sleep doctor, and then whoever else, they don't need many other people because, a, they can do

T.C.:

it. Mhmm.

Jim:

So if if anything, Maggie could still be special. She could be a character in this. Yeah. But really, they have everything they need to know how to induce people to sleep and then interact with their dreams. They have these studies.

T.C.:

I love that. My suggestion was recruitment.

Jim:

Sure. I don't need some specials. Okay. No. It could be could be anybody willing.

Jim:

But my point is I'm I'm I'm world building here. I don't even know if if where where this is necessarily gonna go. Mhmm. But without Freddie kinda blocking their way, they can start exploring the dream realm and mapping it. Okay.

Jim:

So Almost to to invoke something else more recent. So the Backrooms opened this realm, right, that they're exploring with this. This corporation is exploring it, but there is a notion that it's somehow connected to psyches. Whoever wanders in there, it reads their psyches. Right.

Jim:

I'm suggesting there is a dream realm. We all we all connect to it, but it is a shared place. And it doesn't have to be a corporation like that that is exploring this, but there would be moneyed interests that, sorry, burping. Either we go the corporate route where there is a corporate backing that wants to know, well, here's this thing. Here's this resource we have found.

Jim:

How do we exploit it? Mhmm. Or maybe it's a smaller group of people who are trying to keep it secret, trying to keep it away from people to exploit like that to explore it on their own. It's okay. And in so doing, as they go through dreams, there oh, there's crap.

Jim:

I was gonna connect it to a couple other notions. Oh, there are there are notions of there are there are already in in urban legends, right, modern myth Mhmm. There are shared dream places, and they they share a lot in common with the backrooms. They're like, you can go out and find Internet people Internet groups that are like, no. The backrooms are real.

Jim:

I've dreamt about them. I've gone there. And, like, people, like, say, oh, yeah. I've there and stuff like that. But, like, like, one of the known places is the empty shopping mall.

Jim:

Okay. And and so these people talk about trying to meet up at at the empty shopping mall in their dreams

T.C.:

and stuff

Jim:

like that. And our our characters could be basically exploring these liminal spaces. So it's Trying to map them, trying to do things like that, and there will be beings that live in these spaces.

T.C.:

A bit a bit upside downy if we're looking at the Yeah. Absolutely. Stranger Things without being, like, a disgusting gooey

Jim:

Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't have to be gooey. It doesn't have to it doesn't have to automatically be dark, like, in Insidious. Mhmm.

Jim:

They have their whole the way they do the astral plane. They they have a special word for it. It's not quite the astral plane. It's not quite these other things. It's where these ghost demon things live.

Jim:

Yeah. It doesn't have to automatically be evil and upsetting.

T.C.:

Okay. It's just it's dreamscape. Yeah. So the an organization that is doing that and and dealing with the consequences of what they discover in there, sort of Men in Blackie, I guess. Like, they are a secret organization that's doing this, or is this a very well known thing?

T.C.:

Not.

Jim:

Off the top of my head, it would be neither. It's such a niche thing

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

That it would sort of be, like, this small organization off on the side. Nobody can see how to squeeze money out of it. There's nothing coming out. I realize I'm I'm it feels like I'm pulling all the teeth out of what direction do we go with this.

T.C.:

That's okay. You're you're you're you're introducing the world. That's five minutes of movie, and then shit starts going wrong real So

Jim:

Well, because ultimately, I I think Freddie is the antagonist Mhmm. Here. Oh, right. So where was I going with this? So so they're they're finding these liminal spaces.

Jim:

They're finding connections between them. They're they're plotting literally plotting out the the dream realm.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And there is belief that and and and maybe they they start finding proof of it that from the dream realm, they can actually find pathways to other levels of consciousness, including heaven and hell.

T.C.:

Okay. Alright. And Oh, Jesus. Yeah.

Jim:

And so Yeah. That's how Freddie makes his way back. They accidentally bust into hell, and they they basically let Freddie out.

T.C.:

Do they is it a okay. So they they the whole idea here is, oh, we're there's some altruism here. Oh, we're we're studying this beautiful landscape of the dream realm and but is the ulterior motive is almost Michael Crichton esque that the real goal here is to find heaven and hell. Like, that is their goal. And then coming across, like, we think this passage, this gateway, this this place here, if we cross this this space here, we believe we've found heaven, and sure enough, it's hell.

T.C.:

Like, it's the enticing thing. And then crossing there, is there an unleashing of other entities that they're able to face or experience, and there's no finer harbinger of all the dream demons than the one that the best they ever had, which is Freddy Krueger? Is this a is it could be could it be like a Stapuff marshmallow man situation where it's like they feared Freddy so much in going in this that they evoked him back into existence?

Jim:

I don't wanna do that because that suggests that what they summon isn't Freddie. It's just the face of Freddie. Yeah. It should actually be Freddie. Okay.

Jim:

It should act like, Freddie Kruger's soul has right? Has has gone to hell and become a demon itself.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

So he's he's no longer just a human soul imbued with demon powers from whatever pact he made.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

He is now the actual demon demon being, demon creature.

T.C.:

Do okay. So the the the demand here said the suggestion of other dream entities. So are are we gonna draw from any mythology here to imbue Freddie or to relate him to the other dream demons? I'm not saying we give Trials of Hercules here, but is there is there a way to dig deeper into the dangers of this nightmare realm that ultimately lead to releasing Freddie. And also, if Freddie is is released, is he released with the blessing of the of the dream entities, or is he is it an enemy?

T.C.:

Is my enemy situation here?

Jim:

Fair. My my notion my notion is it it should be the folly of the of the characters.

T.C.:

Okay. Like, they they They open the door they shouldn't.

Jim:

Yes.

T.C.:

Well, just the speaking of other entities like the Mara. Do you know the Mara? It's literally where the word nightmare comes from. Oh. The Mara is it is the sleep paralysis demon.

T.C.:

Sits on your chest.

Jim:

Right. Okay.

T.C.:

It holds you in place. It's Scandinavian, I believe. The the Mara is is the dream entity, the nightmare entity that sits on you and and

Jim:

I know about the night hag. Yeah. Yeah.

T.C.:

It's a it it it it infects you with terrifying dreams. So ultimately getting to Freddie returning and then unleashing his shenanigans on these these people who their hubris took them too far into the dream world. Sure. It's as simple as that. They they dug too deep.

T.C.:

They opened the wrong door. Freddie pops out. Kill. Kill. Kill.

T.C.:

Game over. And I don't know if digging too much deeper into other mythology makes us take it too seriously and therefore fall into the traps of similar to what twenty eighteen's Nightmare on Elm Street did. Because just saying they get Freddie back and he kills the person

Jim:

2013.

T.C.:

2033. I keep saying 20. Okay. They go down. They unleash Freddie and he kills.

T.C.:

That's the movie. Like, how do we we how do we fill this out? Right? If that's ultimately what happens here is that we have this organization who's exploring dreamscapes. Well It's at Freddy's Unleashed.

Jim:

So either either our movie, all of this stuff that we've described is the first well, actually, that that that touches on another conversation about horror movies is that the monster doesn't have doesn't have to be revealed within the first act.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. Technically, you don't have to get to the horror until if you do good storytelling Mhmm. You don't have to get the get to the horror until halfway or further into the movie. Sure. But either this story is most of the movie and it's and Freddie's released near the end That that was I think fits the demand more.

Jim:

Yeah. Or all of this happens within, like, the the the setup, and Freddie gets loose as sort of the turn into the second act.

T.C.:

Yeah. I my my instinct says to to wait to bring him back. So if the movie anticipates it, the audience is anticipating it, like, will we just get mentions of him? Will we see him? If we don't even call this a Nightmare on Elm Street, if we call this Dreamwalkers or something like that, and and that it's like, oh, this is gonna be connected to Freeland.

T.C.:

Oh, they keep mentioning him. Oh, there's the, like oh, and then he appears. There there could be some excitement in that. Thinking of other dream entities okay.

Jim:

You are right. Actually, up the night hag, bringing up the the the the the shadow figures, the the man in the hat.

T.C.:

Yeah. Do you know Baku? It's a Japanese dream dream entity.

Jim:

I probably don't know it by that name.

T.C.:

The Baku is a dream entity that is terrifying but eats nightmares. So it's a it's a benevolent dream being where where experiencing the Baku is terrifying because you can see what it's doing, but it it it wants to feed off nightmares. Okay. That's that's a Japanese folklore character Sure. That might be fun to I don't know.

T.C.:

Like, I'm just trying to think of other dream entities that might play some sort of role in this. I I had started making the suggestion that this this organization is one of the questions our our studio asked is, are they protecting us from nightmares? So having a group that isn't having a group that okay.

Jim:

Basically, Ghostbusters, but for dreams Dreambusters.

T.C.:

That that's kinda where I was about to go. There's an organization mapping the dreamscape.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

Within the organization, there are the enforcers. There are people who go in there with they're the they're the the military. They're the the the the guns. They are the they're the fighters. I don't give a shit what you're exploring.

T.C.:

Every time you open a door, I go in first because we don't know what's gonna be in there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the dream warrior.

T.C.:

We know that. Yeah. You want another Freddy Krueger? This is how you get a Freddy Krueger. And then we can have a scientist character and a, basically, a gun toting dream killer character.

T.C.:

Just as a suggestion of how we can face some other things and and develop the lore of the dream world and how it infects the real world. We might even be able to touch on some innies and outies severance style here of, like, who you are in the dream world is may maybe there's some of those enforcers live in the dreamscape. Like, they haven't been when's the last time you left here? May maybe some of the there's, like, there's one scientist who who won't leave the dreamscape because they're so, like, they wanna keep digging deeper. They gotta find that gateway to the next level.

Jim:

What do you think of the term, possibly as a title, and it it maybe it it evokes too too much of what close to what I'm possibly thinking. Dream gate.

T.C.:

Okay. So, like, Stargate esque?

Jim:

Damn it.

T.C.:

Yeah. That's okay. That's okay.

Jim:

You you got there too fast.

T.C.:

Dream gate. Yeah. I look. Well, please continue on there.

Jim:

That was that was really basically so I think one of the other problems that that I'm having closing the gap between is the dream creatures that you that we invoked you invoked Mhmm. With the Mara and and so forth. Those are things that already haunt people Mhmm. In the places they sleep. Our dream enforcers, exterminators, explorers, whatever, going into the dream realm, it's I don't really like, I don't know if that touches on because if they're protecting people, they should be basically, like, going neighborhood to neighborhood and, like, sucking them up from from houses because they would be manifesting

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

In places Mhmm. As opposed to going to the dream realm.

T.C.:

Does it make make does that make sense? Sure. We've we've used this reference before making them firemen versus some sort of enforcement.

Jim:

I don't know if that's as fun though.

T.C.:

No. I I don't know. Having a having a group of people who are just traveling searching out dream demons who are infecting neighborhoods.

Jim:

That sounds more like a TV show.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah. Having having a a like, they're on call. Like, they okay. We're sending you to we're sending you to Wyoming.

T.C.:

We have a threats of a dream We're the dream police. Dream police. Dream police. Being being aware of where entry point like, where are the dream where's the dream area the thinnest? So, like, spring Oh,

Jim:

okay. I'm into that notion.

T.C.:

That they're they're seeking out the where the veil is the thinnest. Mhmm. And they infiltrate the dream realms in certain places. So they they are aware the place they studied the hardest was Ohio. Mhmm.

T.C.:

Like, Elm Street was where this all began. That the the veil was torn down so significantly that a dream demon literally took over an entire town Yeah. And no one did anything about it. Yeah. And and he was dispatched by our our Maggie.

T.C.:

Mhmm. And now thirty five years later.

Jim:

Years later, what she what she did with talent

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Has been codified into skill. Yes. And we have we have three teams of experts

T.C.:

Mhmm. Of of varying levels of age and and and experience doing this that now go around protect protecting people. They they seek susceptible locations or locations where the the sleep gate has already the dream gate has already been thinned to the point that they're Bakus and hags and and but then okay. The idea that there's we got some kind of multi like, couple part stories here that's in act in these locations, they're using it to map out the dream world, the dream realm, and that the goal is to maybe one of the the Michael Crichton esque. There's always, like, an evil corporation

Jim:

guy to go there?

T.C.:

To get there and find heaven and hell.

Jim:

So I don't think he should be an evil corporation guy. I think they're one of the researchers just because this notion has occurred

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

To him or or or like he had he's he's hit on something that things will get him there because he is he has so much faith. It's just he's like, yeah. No. This this is what I'm looking for. Yeah.

Jim:

So so less less someone trying basically, like, I'm thinking about, like, Event Horizon.

T.C.:

Yes.

Jim:

And while the corporation wanted their ship back, they wanted their investment back, their goal wasn't to find heaven or hell. Sam Neill

T.C.:

Mhmm. Rest in peace.

Jim:

Rest in peace. He kind he also didn't necessarily want to open a gate to hell or go to hell. Mhmm. But once once the notion sort of got into him, he once he was infected by it, he had to seek it out. Yeah.

Jim:

And so this re this this guy who's been on the research team for twenty plus years

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

With all with seeing where all this is going, if he can prove the afterlife is real, if he can prove that these things that dreams are connected quite literally to our souls and that they can lead all the way to the the afterlife. Yes. And he can if he can touch heaven

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Oh my god. Not even the not even the material implications. Just the spiritual implications. I could reconnect with my love with my lost loved ones. I could connect other people.

Jim:

Yeah. Think of all the pain I could heal. Just just knowing that's possible.

T.C.:

And the the movies have already given us lore of this because we've seen the nun, Freddie's mother, Amanda. She

Jim:

Remember that name.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah. She had been from the afterlife into the real world, into the dreamscape. Mhmm. She's the one who pulled him in in five.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

So there is evidence within the mythology that there is hell and and heaven. Mhmm.

Jim:

Well, just the demons coming to Freddie and and giving him the powers. Yeah.

T.C.:

Okay. The the idea that there is a character who is obsessively trying to unlock those gate gateways

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

And and thinking he's finally done it and being dead wrong. Like, even having if if an before Freddie is is released. Yeah. Yeah. Having someone like like Morpheus.

T.C.:

Morpheus being the dream god who is

Jim:

It's funny. He's oh, I was I was gonna mention Morpheus and the whole idea of going to the underworld and, like, maybe there's a character, allo Morpheus

T.C.:

Yes.

Jim:

That every time they go to the dream realm, like, he beckons. Yes. And he's like, yes. And, like, let's say they have some sort of meter, like, oh, we can only be in the dreamscape so long. Mhmm.

Jim:

Or we touch on the astral plane where I don't know how much you know about astral travel. The the theories I would talk about, there's the silver cord.

T.C.:

It

Jim:

comes from from, like, your your center, one of your chakra points

T.C.:

and faces.

Jim:

And it goes off. And there is talk. Like, when you go to that if you travel to the astral plane, there will be beings there that tempt you Mhmm. That tempt you away. Like, hey.

Jim:

Just give give me your cord or sever your cord. I need to come a little further. Never do that. Because if they do that, they'll either steal your cord, and now they have a pathway back to your body.

T.C.:

Yes. They do.

Jim:

Yes. Lost in the astral plane.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

But, yeah, you'll just get lost there if you sever your your cord. It could be something like that. Like, his cord is stretched so long, and Morpheus keeps beckoning deeper into the underworld.

T.C.:

And Yeah.

Jim:

And it's portrayed like the Greek underworld, which is a bit gloomy, but not not evil, not the act.

T.C.:

Yeah. Well, that's that that is my suggestion is they're the revelation and whether if it's this Morpheus entity that reveals it or they discover the scientist having a science a bad scientist, someone like Maggie who's leading this whole expedition and our more roughneck protector type character. Anyway, the implication is once that gateway is crossed, I think I have found heaven and or hell. The revelation from Morpheus or what is learned is heaven and hell aren't real. That that is that is something that you that that human humanity has created to answer questions.

T.C.:

The dream realm is real, and there are entities and places to go in all here, but you're not gonna find the good place and the bad place. You've been wrong the whole time. You do not meddle in places you do not understand because it's all bad. Like, they're like, no.

Jim:

See, I want it I I actually think it should connect to heaven and hell.

T.C.:

Oh, okay. Okay. I I I'm I'm willing to acquiesce to that. I I'm just trying to think of a plot element here to draw from. But

Jim:

I'll I'm I'm fine with, characters getting tricked, and I I I think the character is trying to find heaven. Mhmm. And I think him getting tricked into opening Hell. Hell Yes. Is the way to go.

T.C.:

Great. Okay. Then that I think I that was, like, one of the first things that we sort of

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

Cottoned on to. I think, yes, that getting to that point of we see them we establish the status quo of these characters that they are going to locations with thin dream gates. They are helping people fight dream entities in one form or another. And every time they go Okay. Yeah.

Jim:

Or okay. I'm putting the I I don't know if this is this is what you're saying, so let me repeat it back.

T.C.:

Yep.

Jim:

Our our enforcers who go there and they take out the night hags Mhmm. And the the the shadow people

T.C.:

They chase the Baku away.

Jim:

Yeah. And they they they do all that.

T.C.:

They feed the Baku and then let them go.

Jim:

Here's some bad dreams for you. Yeah. Oh, maybe maybe that's the of our movie. Yeah. We're we're making a family movie here.

T.C.:

No. No. No. No. This movie's gonna be gross.

Jim:

Oh, so the idea is they they the reason they seek out these thin places is because it is easier to get to the dream realm. So the researchers dive while doing that.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And the enforcers start taking out these monsters, which on unfortunately, rethickens to the the veil

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Which means they can't dive there again, which is why they have to keep looking for new places, and that's the clock our researcher keeps running against. Mhmm. He needs these guys to stop stop change stop making it less thin. Yeah. You can Just leave it leave it thin.

Jim:

If we leave it thin, more come through and they get a bigger

T.C.:

Just give me more time then. Give me an extra half hour, please. And I we've mapped No can do, doc. We've mapped so much. You

Jim:

gotta dream faster.

T.C.:

We've learned so many things. And it sounds like our doctor is the he's gonna be the catalyst that he's the one who unleashes Freddie.

Jim:

Yeah. Basically, what what I and what I'm wanting here is I'm wanting him driven not by greed or mustache twirling evil. Sure. He is driven by obsession. Yeah.

Jim:

He's a He means well. He truly does.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

But but, ultimately, he is he is blinded by his Ambition. Ambition and and obsession. Yeah.

T.C.:

And un unlocking that door, being beckoned to it in one form or another every that maybe we see a couple, like, a a single location to start the movie where they we see what these people can do at their best. Pretty standard openness movie.

Jim:

Okay. How how many not set pieces, but how many locations do we want them to go to before kind of the the final one?

T.C.:

It's a classic three three beats here. We see them succeed the first time.

Jim:

What

T.C.:

is The second time, we see our doctor push a little too hard and risk the team. Hearing a voice calling to him, you're so close. Doc, you're so close. And then getting to the third location where the doc goes off off tether. Where'd the doc go?

T.C.:

Went that way. He's mapping. No. He's not. He's off tether, and that's when the door is open and Freddie's unleashed.

Jim:

Okay. So that's the third one. Great. Here's and here's and now granted I understand advertising will reveal all of

T.C.:

this. Yeah.

Jim:

So we don't it doesn't have to be a Nightmare on Elm Street movie. It doesn't start in Springwood

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Ohio. It ends there.

T.C.:

Sure. Yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. We talk about the original researcher. We can drop names so anyone who knows the previous stuff knows her. She's no she's retired. She's old.

Jim:

She's retired.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

So she's, she's only ever referred to as one of the as the founder. Sure. One of the founders. And we're starting in other places, and the doctor suggests, okay. We need to go back to the founder's hometown.

Jim:

Call it the the doctor's hometown because that is where the veil is the thinnest, and I can get the I can dive deepest there.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And so that's why so we take it back to Springwood as the final. That's where Freddie was sent to hell. Yeah. And that's where they

T.C.:

unleash unleash him. Unleash dream hell. Dream What what do you think? Yeah. Yeah.

T.C.:

I think so. That getting getting back to to Elm Street, taking us back to Ohio. Where

Jim:

was Amityville set? Maine. Set in Maine.

T.C.:

Rhode Island. Amityville. Amityville is in yep.

Jim:

I I ask because could we set it in three kind of, like, notoriously haunted places that we can allude just veiled veiled the allusion to with reference. Right? So not say, we're going to Amityville, but, like, say, we're we're going to Rhode Island or Connecticut this city, Rhode Island or Connecticut or whichever to to to kind of loosely connect It's true. Where where's Crystal Lake? What what state is Crystal Lake?

T.C.:

Camp Crystal

Jim:

Lake? Yeah. Well, first off I know that's not

T.C.:

Amityville's in New Jersey. I apologize. The Crystal Lake was filmed in New Jersey, but I don't know what state it's

Jim:

supposed to was filmed in Illinois.

T.C.:

Yeah. Is Camp Crystal Lake? Right? I think it's supposed to be New Jersey. The way I did the fucking research on this.

T.C.:

Universal Lake in Friday the thirteenth is in New Jersey. I should just commit to knowing the answer because that's what it is. It's in New Jersey.

Jim:

They're both New Jersey?

T.C.:

They're both Interesting. Both East Coast haunts.

Jim:

Where's where's Halloween? Is is that Illinois?

T.C.:

John Carpenter's Halloween? Yeah. What is the name of that even that town.

Jim:

Right? Because it's filmed in Pasadena.

T.C.:

Yeah. It's it's just in Hollywood. You know, the real Oh my god. I can't remember the name of the town either. In it's it's Pasadena.

T.C.:

No. It's in it's in it's in Illinois. It's a it's like a hidden hidden hedonistic Haddonville. Haddon Haddonfield. Haddonfield.

T.C.:

Haddonfield. There you go. Yes. You're you're just saying, like

Jim:

I'm I'm just trying to name the the the start they start in New Jersey.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

They go to Illinois. Yeah. And they end in Ohio. Great. Those are the those are the three thin veil points they go to.

Jim:

Great.

T.C.:

Now the they that getting back to Ohio, much to this doctor's colleague, there's some sort of they they they seal that. Like, they finish that off. Going back is not something that Maggie ever wanted to do. But there's something suggesting after thirty five years, it's back to Elm Street. I mean, this this could even be called back to Elm Street and, like, there's a Ideally,

Jim:

that I wouldn't want the title to refer to Nightmare, Elm Street, anything, Freddie, none none of that because we're not bringing Freddie in until the third act.

T.C.:

True. But also if you think of New Nightmare, a lot of that has to do with the iconography before Freddie becomes Fudd. And not to draw from a movie we're not supposed to reference, but

Jim:

They also refer to it right away. Like, literally, hey. We're filming on Nightmare Street. Like, I'm pretty sure the cold open is a Freddie scene. Sure.

Jim:

And then cut.

T.C.:

Yeah. Okay. But we don't have to name this movie quite yet. But getting our characters there, Freddie's unleashed, all hell breaks loose. Now we have the and we'll keep this at ninety minutes like all the other movies.

T.C.:

We're we're about halfway through the movie when that when that occurs. Right? Is that what we're thinking? Or are you thinking even closer? Like, when is when is Freddie unleashed?

Jim:

In a ninety minute movie, three big set pieces. I think he's unleashed. Well, because the whole point is unleashing the whole point to this Mhmm. Is unleashing him, not bottling him, not defeating him, not bottling him. So he's unleashed at, like

T.C.:

Thirty minutes? Eighty minutes. Oh, like, all the way at the end.

Jim:

He's the third act.

T.C.:

Right. So how much horror, gore, and murder do we have up to this point? Because the this movie is really dull if we aren't killing people every fifteen minutes.

Jim:

Well, it's wait. It's dull if we are killing people?

T.C.:

If we aren't. Oh. If we are not.

Jim:

I don't know I don't know how true that is. How many people die in Insidious?

T.C.:

Oh, okay. That's that's fair. But going to the mistakes of that reboot is if we want to capture the fun of this gross, dark, awful horror movie.

Jim:

Okay. This does go back to the demand. If the demand is to explore the world, make a world of dream warriors and dream creatures

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

It doesn't mean we necessarily have to do the Freddie's funny quips and stuff. Mhmm. We need to build a world. We need to build a world so that when Freddie does come back at the end, when we go, oh, yeah. Freddie's There

T.C.:

he is. Yeah.

Jim:

It's it's a world for him to walk into and say, I'm king shit of fuck mountain.

T.C.:

So do you not imagine giving us all the, like, horror and gore up until Freddie?

Jim:

Weirdly, I imagine it a lot like Insidious. Okay. I think I think it's a lot of dream horror and gore. Yeah. So they're they're our our characters are going into dreams, seeing big terrible monsters, maybe seeing them do things to dreamers Mhmm.

Jim:

And defeating them. And then the the dreamers themselves don't physically die because these monsters don't necessarily have Freddie powers of affecting the physical world

T.C.:

Sure.

Jim:

The way he did. Then Unless unless I'm unless you don't want it, do you think there should be more terribleness?

T.C.:

As long as we're getting gory and bloody and disgusting in the dreamscape, I'm happy. But to motivate us to truly get back to Elm Street, having Maggie be our leader of this team, having just a glitchy feeling no? You're shaking your head.

Jim:

Maggie retired.

T.C.:

Okay. Who's ever been there? Unless you want

Jim:

character x.

T.C.:

Okay. I I'm at a loss then. I don't know what to do. I I'm I'm a I'm a little stumped right now then.

Jim:

I'm trying to say no, definitely not. I'm saying that where I was coming from was Maggie is a retired character. Maggie is not an element in this movie. Okay. If you want to have Maggie be an element to this movie, want her to be the main character.

T.C.:

We I just we have a lot of premise here. Well, I don't

Jim:

know the plot lot of premise. Right. But We're just gonna explore premise.

T.C.:

Okay. It's just a it's just a it's just a vibe, man. Yeah. We're gonna let Nicholas Winden reference.

Jim:

We're the age of vibe movie.

T.C.:

We're gonna let Ari Aster make this movie.

Jim:

Don't do that.

T.C.:

Here's my question. Who okay. We have this scientist character, but okay. Fine. It's not Maggie.

T.C.:

But having someone be our central character, it's not the scientist. The scientist is the antagonist of this movie Yeah. Through his actions, his or her actions. Sure. So having a character in this movie who leads this team and is is so focused and and having their own nightmares that they've been dealing with.

T.C.:

We can create a whole new backstory for someone who is who's dealt with trauma, who was recruited into this at a young age because they experienced some really, really deep traumatic nightmares that made them good for this.

Jim:

Alright. Back to the beginning, you said, hey, you're special. Yeah. We'll have a hey, you're special.

T.C.:

Just just to pre prologue this into the character.

Jim:

Here's another world building notion.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

All dreams thin the veil. All of them. Good or bad?

T.C.:

Yeah. Okay.

Jim:

That so this organization, theoretically, will be in business forever.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Don't know who's paying them. Don't know how they're making money. Mhmm. But they'll always have work to do because all dreams scrape away at the The gate. The barrier between reality and dream.

T.C.:

Sure. Sure.

Jim:

This particular person scrapes away faster and more Mhmm. Than other people. Because every time they go to we open it up. They have trials. They're they're they're always they always have these open trials for dream analysis, dream stuff like that.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

And I sleep as short as possible.

Jim:

Things like that.

T.C.:

I have five I have perfected micro naps.

Jim:

And they I try not

T.C.:

to dream.

Jim:

They find this woman who dreams deeper than anyone else, and especially our obsessed scientist, wants like like, brings her, oh, we need to study her more. We need to see how she's doing this Mhmm. So naturally. And he's actually using her to get deeper into down the path.

T.C.:

I I like that. I would like to suggest though that whatever little intro we have that establishes this recruitment thing is like Jean Grey getting picked up in the X Men kind of thing. Like, it's quick and then and then we jump ahead and now she is an established member of this team that the scientist is always, hey, did you dream

Jim:

last night?

T.C.:

Like, a little little creepy, a little a little too pervasive in pervasive in his question like, doc, please, you this bothers me that you do this so much. I try not to dream, you know that. Now let's get, like, I'm leading this team. Let's go into our mission here. Or were you suggesting that she's a new entrant into this?

Jim:

I think I my suggestion was she's a new entrant. She's literally she's brought on, the scientist is using her as a tool Mhmm. Okay. Less and and the rest of the team, like, they're doing their thing, and maybe they're worried about it, but they also have their own responsibilities to work on. So they can't like, they don't necessarily know to police the doctor.

T.C.:

Right. Because they have their tasks Yeah. That they focus on.

Jim:

And as far as they know, he's doing what he's supposed to be doing. And if she's And she doesn't know any better.

T.C.:

Sure. She doesn't know any better because she's new to the team. But if she's brought on, does anyone keep an eye on her? Who's who's responsible for it? The doctor.

T.C.:

The doctor. It's just that, like, I have this new subject who has zero training in the dream world, and she's part of our team now.

Jim:

And that's why it goes wrong. Well, it's not she's brought on it, like

T.C.:

Does she go on the missions? Or she Yes.

Jim:

She doesn't go on a mission as personnel. Mhmm. She goes on the mission because the doctor uses her ability to get further.

T.C.:

Okay. It's putting her in a lot of danger.

Jim:

It is. She's our final girl. Oh, great.

T.C.:

Is she is she some sort of compass as well? Like Sure. We

Jim:

we That's

T.C.:

not bad. We we're we're constantly we've been doing this for decades now. We know how to find the veils, but for some reason or another, she she dreams of the place to go?

Jim:

Oh, no. No. No. I want the the doctor finds the thin places

T.C.:

Oh, and then brings

Jim:

her. And then she's she's the drill. Okay.

T.C.:

That's a good metaphor or

Jim:

a good I think I think that gets closer to what I'm trying to

T.C.:

convey Yeah.

Jim:

He with her.

T.C.:

He's definitely, like Like like, the

Jim:

way the the those bad guys in the dark tower are using psychics to Mhmm. Tear away at the the the The thingy. Think they yeah. That's what he's using her for.

T.C.:

Okay. Okay. So then we have our doc. We have this new girl, our our final girl. And

Jim:

Like like something about the way, like, they measure her dreams, and she dreams deeper and more vividly than, like, anyone else they've ever encountered. Mhmm. And very quickly, like, we find out maybe the doctor reveals what he believes that is. They don't have proof for it yet, but he believes that it's literal visions of

T.C.:

Heaven.

Jim:

Not just not just dreamscapes. But, yeah, her nice dreams are dreams of heaven, and her nightmares are dreams of hell. Mhmm. And he's trying so he's trying to use her as a compass in the dreamscape.

T.C.:

Yeah. Once he gets her in the dreamscape, like, alright. Does any of this look familiar?

Jim:

We're like, and with her, he can move faster than ever before.

T.C.:

Sure. So then while our our unit is taking care of whatever the the entity is that needs to be dispatched, whether it's a a a benevolent or malevolent entity, the doc is nefariously being like, yes. Yes. Take care of that. Oh, I'll get that sample in a minute.

T.C.:

Do you see anything? Point point you point you in the right direction. Sure.

Jim:

Yeah. Yeah.

T.C.:

Yeah. And then the two of them go off off together. Like, where'd the doc and the the new girl go?

Jim:

Sure.

T.C.:

Yeah. They're they're researching over there. Well, we need to wrap this up. We've been in here too long. Let's get out of this dream.

T.C.:

And then he brings her to the like, this gateway feels familiar. It's like, yes. Yes. Open it. Can you open it?

T.C.:

And then she opens it and out steps Freddy Krueger.

Jim:

Yeah. Okay. And then, right, he then he gets he gets his. Freddie gets him.

T.C.:

The doctor goes is the first big kill in the movie. Yeah. Yeah.

Jim:

Like, oh, no. My hubris.

T.C.:

And she runs away screaming back at

Jim:

the team. She tries to run away. Yeah. We get a chase a dream chase scene where Freddie's chasing but can't catch.

T.C.:

I missed this. Yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. That kind of thing.

T.C.:

And then she runs back to the unit, and she's like, wake up. We need to wake up. We need to wake up. And they're like, alright. Chill.

T.C.:

Where's the doc? He's dead. What what got him? Just said Alright. To

Jim:

Or or if it's that depending on how we wanna do it, Although, that could the first notion, he's dead. Oh, that means he woke up.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jim:

And they're very calm and casual So then because they've never run into any now maybe that's too late. Maybe that shouldn't be a third act kinda thing.

T.C.:

No. I think we're more, like, halfway point this. We've we've moved Freddie's appearance up to the midpoint.

Jim:

Because then when they do unplug and they're back on the Nebuchadnezzar He's like I mean, they're he's he's dead.

T.C.:

He's eviscerated

Jim:

in front

T.C.:

of them.

Jim:

And they're like, what the hell?

T.C.:

Yeah. And so Freddie has been unleashed. And and that's a if that's at the halfway point, forty five minutes into a ninety minute movie, now it's a matter of how strong is this thing? How do we kill it? What is it what is how does Freddie start infiltrating the real world and manipulating and killing this team to become more powerful.

T.C.:

And you can think about that because we're gonna take a break right here. How's that sound?

Jim:

Sounds good.

T.C.:

Alright. We're gonna take, as I just said, we're gonna take a little break here. So maybe go take a quick power nap and, come back and figure out how we're gonna hash out more of these details of whatever this nightmare is. Be right back. How how powerful is Fred Krueger now?

T.C.:

Like when he's So powerful. He's been trapped in this dimension, in this realm for thirty five years. Is he he's probably happy to be free, but he's he's probably pissed. He's he's ready to live up to shenanigans. Has he gained any new abilities?

T.C.:

Are we like, how close? I'll rewind a little. Oh, okay.

Jim:

Ultimate what it feels like we're making here, and I'm okay if this is what we're doing or I just wanna be on the same page. Yeah. It wasn't my intent to begin with. I feel like the demand leaves it sort of open kind of points in the direction. We're basically making the aliens of Nightmare on Elm Street movies here.

T.C.:

Right? That seems to be what we're doing. Yes. I I didn't realize until you articulated it, but yes, that does seem to be what we're doing. Now, if that wasn't your intention and you don't wanna do that, we can you you keep saying and

Jim:

you keep I kept thinking more like You keep saying flat flat liners Sure. Is what I was initially shooting for.

T.C.:

And you keep in citing Insidious as a it's a very different movie from Nightmare on Elm Street. It is. As a serious film, it is it's much more chilling than terrifying or even close to funny. Nothing there's nothing humorous or darkly funny in those movies.

Jim:

So a thing that's important to me about making something like this, nothing but Freddie should be funny.

T.C.:

Right. Right. Right. And I'm not suggesting we should have characters cracking jokes or goofing off. Think that's the mistake of the fourth one where everyone is like no.

T.C.:

It's the fifth one. No. The the one where they all graduate. It's I think that's

Jim:

I mean, that was that was one scene. What that was was what that was doing was it was showing a bunch of teenagers who are too cool for school.

T.C.:

Got

Jim:

it. It was a it was a little over the top. Yeah. But that's really all it was is it was, hey, it's the late nineties, early two thousand or early early ninety

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Late eighties, early nineties.

T.C.:

We're cool.

Jim:

We're rad. We're super it's the '90. Right? It was totally it's welcome to the nineties at

T.C.:

Got it. 'tude. Yeah. To to your point, no. We're not okay.

T.C.:

So we're not trying to be funny. Freddie should be the one that has, like, the the He's the one having a

Jim:

good time.

T.C.:

The dark the dark humor the gross dark humor, this doesn't happen till he shows up.

Jim:

But to that end, if if this is the aliens of of Nightmare on Elm Street Mhmm. That means the first half is filled with that means our other dream creatures actually can do things a little bit similar to Freddy, albeit not to the same extent, the same power. Like, right, like, the Nighthag causes asthma and asphyxiation and and things, and you, you can get scratched. Mhmm. Thing things like that.

Jim:

But our dream warriors, and we were asked for them, so maybe we should make two or three of them here. I've only really made the the doctor the doctor Smith of our of our setting.

T.C.:

Is that a lost in space reference?

Jim:

Yes. It is. Because I can't remember the Baltar doc Gaius doctor Gaius Baltar. He's the Baltar of our of

T.C.:

our setting,

Jim:

who is just essentially another doctor Smith. Gaius Baltaur.

T.C.:

That's an s g u refer or is that a no. No. That's Balestar Galactica reference.

Jim:

But they're both they're both traitorous doctors.

T.C.:

That's true. True. Okay. Before you elaborate, do you want to keep going in this direction? Because I feel like I pushed us towards aliens, and you were trying to push us towards insidious.

T.C.:

Because honestly, the very first question I asked was what the tone of this movie was gonna be. Sure. And I think we landed on two different tones. So I I wanna know, you've been pushing it more towards the darker you evoked Backrooms immediately. Insidious is what you said more than once.

T.C.:

So it seems to me you're looking more to create a chilling James Wan

Jim:

A little bit. I I wanna

T.C.:

movie that becomes Freddie's dark bullshit.

Jim:

Yeah. Bay basically, I wanna use the first act or half of this movie to build out the world. I thought I thought Freddie's dead did something really interesting. The the the recap we watched, the guy ridiculed it.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

I loved the notion that there was this this town with no kids. Yeah. And, like, discussing things in in real life, if all the kids in a town died, it'd be a very sad town. A lot of people would move away. Yeah.

Jim:

And it would probably be a ghost town, honestly. Yeah. It would be chalked up to, like, heavy metals in the water or something.

T.C.:

Instead, Freddie convinced the entire population of teenagers to kill themselves.

Jim:

Yeah. And then no one said or did anything about it, suggesting to me, there's ancillary influence there that not only did all of these kids die, but then the adults and that's I think in that movie, that's why they act so crazy Mhmm. Is they're also kind of influenced by this thing. The the the the dream state, the dream behavior

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Is becoming real. Right? Freddie has

T.C.:

a kingdom that he can manipulate in in real in awake time and dream time.

Jim:

Yeah. So I'm wanting to oh, so so thirty years later, he's no longer there, but we're gonna build a world where because we're playing in a world where dream creatures slash demons have the ability to affect the world in this way. Mhmm. What happens when humans realize their ability to manipulate these things? How far does that go?

Jim:

How far does it spread? I feel like saying, oh, it's it's widespread. There's a corporation of that's too much.

T.C.:

I think it's too far.

Jim:

That's why I think a small research team that, right, doesn't get wild funding, doesn't know how to necessarily capitalize on

T.C.:

what they've got. Their their front is a sleep study organization. Yeah. That's their front.

Jim:

Yeah. Yeah. That's how they get money. Right? Oh, this is here.

Jim:

Wear wear an apnea mask. Yeah.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah. And that's how they get their their funding and the money that they then use for their very small elite team that deals with

Jim:

It's it's also it's also cover for their their researching where thin places are. That's what I'm saying.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly what I'm saying. Yes. And so having a new they got this there are final girls in entered the equation.

T.C.:

We have this obsessive doctor who's been working on this for fifteen years now.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

Thirty five years since Sunny wait. No. Sunnybrook.

Jim:

Maggie is

T.C.:

Spring Springbrook.

Jim:

Springwood.

T.C.:

Yeah. Springwood.

Jim:

Yeah. Maggie is the founder. Mhmm. If you want her to be a character she can be, I feel like that cuts to that that that involves somebody who's gonna have a bunch of competent oversight

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Which won't allow our scientists to get or maybe that's he needs to be more underhanded

T.C.:

I I like

Jim:

what he's doing.

T.C.:

I like someone who's who is manipulating the system because they've gotten complacent. I feel like it connects it almost too much directly back to back to Six.

Jim:

Six. It doesn't let the world breathe Mhmm. Without it, and suggesting that Maggie founded it, and she has retired because at this point, she's 60, I think. 35 plus how old she was there, I think, was 30. Yeah.

Jim:

So she should be in her sixties.

T.C.:

Yeah. Having her retired.

Jim:

Having her retired. And really what that does is it allows her to be in the next one. Like, what did you guys do to my company?

T.C.:

Sure. Yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. Slash what have you done? What have you done with my dad? Mhmm. You fools.

Jim:

You fools.

T.C.:

You you unleashed Freddie. Yeah. I definitely wanna discuss Freddie's fate in this, but we'll we will get to that. Yeah. Continue your world building here.

Jim:

Crap. Where was I going with right. So so maybe the monsters do a little more. Right? So our our characters look for people reporting scratches.

Jim:

They they look for paranormal result reports of ghosts, and they also look for more reports of nightmares and and poor sleep. And they they correlate all these things to be like, there's a thin spot. Yeah. So then we get to see some people get attacked, and we get to see our characters. If it is gonna be more aliens like Well which which is okay.

T.C.:

Yeah. I I think we can build to that. I think the even if we just template this over aliens that this competent group is moving into hell, dangerous territory, like like, game over, man. I don't want them to be goofing off like the roughnecks of or the marines of aliens, like, their whole jockeying and the oh, the the spaghetti scene as George Lucas refers to it as a spaghetti scene. It doesn't have to be spaghetti, but it's that scene where all the characters just sit around eating dinner and just establish their, like, their rapport and their every movie needs a spaghetti scene.

Jim:

You don't wanna have that?

T.C.:

No. No. In in the marines in aliens in aliens are it's very

Jim:

Oh, yeah. Because they're marines.

T.C.:

Right. And I Yeah. I'm saying if I'm saying if we are gonna model this after aliens, which again, I feel like I pushed you towards that, I think we maintain the tone and creep factor and the chills of Insidious and build up to

Jim:

I would like to suggest insidious, but a very specific part, which is gonna make it probably more lighter

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Than seems. The paranormal investigators that they bring in

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jim:

Those are our guys. Yes. We're gonna make a whole movie

T.C.:

about them. Okay. I think that splits the difference between being too much of an action movie, which it wasn't exactly my intention in what I was suggesting. Sure. I could see unless I'm thinking back to everything I've been suggesting.

T.C.:

It does sound more like fighting monsters. Yeah. Here's Freddy Krueger. No. I'm I think that's that slow chilling build

Jim:

to gonna have we're gonna have a bit of it. Because because I'm I'm fine. I'm embracing that. But it we're gonna also have a little bit of matrix here. Our characters in the real world, they're scientists.

Jim:

They're they're right? They do that. And then most of them will have one or two people that are like operators that hang out and watch, monitor our people as they sleep in the van or wherever they set up wherever they set up. Mhmm. And then the rest, they're dreamers.

Jim:

Yep. They go to sleep. And at least one of the characters does is totally, in real life, timid. But in a dream a bad he's a roughneck. And off the top of my head, his nickname, what it what they call they call him lucid.

Jim:

Oh. He's he's like the the strongest lucid dreamer.

T.C.:

He's Michael Bean in this? He's the

Jim:

Oh, maybe. Yeah. Sure.

T.C.:

He's just the badass. Okay.

Jim:

And and, like, literally, in the dream so, like, will be creepy monsters. We can establish them. And then when Lucid shows up, he kicks their asses Yeah. Because he is a he's a dream he's a dream, quote, unquote, master.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Right? Yeah. And and the thing is he's like, we can come up with specialties for each of them. That's sort of why I was gonna return there. Then we have an idea of who they are Mhmm.

Jim:

And then how they are going to deal with Freddie. Freddie. Mhmm. So, like, all the stuff they established in dream warriors and dream like, every time there was a scene where the dreamer, like, was able to kinda handle Freddie for a moment before Freddie turned it on him.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Lucid is is all of those people. Like, no dream no dream creature has gotten one over on Lucid. Truly a master. Yeah. He he, like like, he folds them into boxes.

Jim:

Like like yeah.

T.C.:

Well, given that okay. I'm gonna suggest this, but I understand the implication of this, especially considering the mythology. There is there is a precedent for familial ties within this universe is our lucid character, Maggie's son. Or we also have the character of Jacob on the table that is that would be

Jim:

37 Technically, Jacob is dead. Oh. That that Jacob is dead. The actual son hasn't been used. The actual Alice's son.

Jim:

Yeah. Right? Because because what what the recap, what we learned, the director of six Mhmm. Mhmm. Jacob in six with a kid with amnesia was meant to be

T.C.:

Alice's kid. He was John Doe. That was John. He

Jim:

oh, okay. Oh, I thought okay.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. Because he and he was meant to be Alice's kid Mhmm. And the director said, no. I don't that. And so he was just anybody He was just John Doe.

Jim:

And he died. Yeah. Technically, Alice's kid that was he was named Jacob? Yes. Okay.

Jim:

Technically, Jacob has not shown up.

T.C.:

So we could potentially make him right? Make him the our our badass We could.

Jim:

I'm I'm I'm not gonna have a hard stance against it. Mhmm. But my inclination is to not have any characters from previous thing. We can reference them

T.C.:

Got it.

Jim:

But they are not characters in this.

T.C.:

Okay. We we could even go so far as to not name this guy enough that the audience could go, I bet that's Jacob.

Jim:

Bet that's him.

T.C.:

Way we

Jim:

I'm I also I'm actually thinking he's pretty young. Okay. So if anything, he'd be the grandson. He'd be Jacob's son.

T.C.:

It's only been

Jim:

Or Maggie's son.

T.C.:

It's only been forty years since

Jim:

Yeah.

T.C.:

Since he was born.

Jim:

So Jake

T.C.:

Oh, yeah. You're right. Jacob They would make him, like, in his twenties. Yeah.

Jim:

No. Jacob would be in his forties.

T.C.:

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Your character this character could be in his twenties. Yeah. Got it.

T.C.:

Well, we we leave it up to the audience to decide to to fan theorize without actually stating it. That way, you don't have to get too lore heavy.

Jim:

Yeah. There'd be one dream cryptologist. So or, like I'm thinking, like, a cryptozool like, someone who knows what all of the beings are. They they categorize everything. Yeah.

Jim:

They identify the dream that they enter.

T.C.:

Our Newt Scamander.

Jim:

Thing yeah. Yeah. So so Lucid is our is our heavy. Mhmm. Whatever this character's name

T.C.:

Newt. Is.

Jim:

Newt Newt is our

T.C.:

Double reference because it's

Jim:

also Matrix. Also aliens.

T.C.:

Oh, yeah. Triple reference. Is

Jim:

our our our navigator. Mhmm. Navigator slash zoologist. Sure. We need at least one more.

T.C.:

Yeah. One or two other specialists to

Jim:

So maybe the navigator and the zoologist should not be the same person.

T.C.:

Yeah. Someone who yeah. We have we have our scientists, our heavy, our animal experts, our zoologist, our navigator. So maybe second in command Mhmm. And our final girl, that's five.

T.C.:

I think we throw a sixth in there. Oh, we have our operator out in the real world.

Jim:

So so I think we have one operator in the real world. That that's really probably all you need to really monitor. Mhmm. So there's two teams of three. Mhmm.

Jim:

One team dives for exploration and research. Mhmm. That's the scientist and and probably and maybe one other, maybe two others, and then our final girl is is jammed in there Okay. That our scientist insists on bringing.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jim:

She's right? Like, they they make this whole big he makes this whole big deal like, oh my god. You're you're this you're this deep dreamer. I would really love to study you more, and we do this thing. You would be very useful.

Jim:

So she's brought on she's she's sort of misled in a number of different directions. Mhmm. She is a new member of the team, but also she's kept in the dark about a lot of stuff. She's also our audience's perspect

T.C.:

Avatar.

Jim:

Avatar Mhmm. In into this into this world. But I think so yeah. So three researchers, and then three defenders slash, like like, actual, like, cleanup crew.

T.C.:

So a six person team dreams, and we have Mhmm. One or two operators on the outside? Yeah. Quote six, seven, eight. That's eight people to kill or Mhmm.

T.C.:

Attempt to kill. Yeah. Great. That's a good body count for this. Yeah.

T.C.:

Okay. So facing off a couple of things here and there, establishing these characterizations just just enough so they aren't caricatures. Our probably main focus is going to be our POV character with our final girl who asks the questions. Our hero in naming him Lucid is our Dan like character to draw from the franchise them itself. Our scientist is inadvertently the and no.

T.C.:

Not the antagonist, but essentially the the problem. The the this the the scientist creates the biggest problem here because then Sure. Unleashing Freddie, and now Freddie starts attacking and picking this team off one by one.

Jim:

If we do have other people to send with the scientists the the the yeah. The scientist doesn't have to be the one to die when the gate is opened. Freddy's unleashed. Mhmm. So we can have him running around trying to be like, no.

Jim:

No. I I just have to adjust my theory.

T.C.:

Okay. Someone else is gonna get murderized then. Maybe it's the map it's the navigator. The navigator is the first to go.

Jim:

It's it's it's a team of six. Yeah. Three stay back and kill monsters while three Yeah. Dive. So Yeah.

Jim:

So one of one of them.

T.C.:

Yeah. The the mapper. Sure. Yeah. So scientist mapper and new girl are the three.

T.C.:

Sure. Mapper gets killed. Mhmm. Scientist and the girl back. She's like freaking out.

T.C.:

He's like, oh, we should get out of here. Get back to the real world. We have our guy dead.

Jim:

Well and we actually what what'll be wonderful because leading up to that, I want the reason I'm I'm I'm saying maybe we do see some of some dream creatures have the bill ability to affect the physical world.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

We build up through the first and second act here as they fight night hags and stuff. We see them affect the the dreamers, and then our our dream team Mhmm. Goes in. We see them manhandle these dream beings. Yeah.

Jim:

But we also get to see them just affect a little bit and our operator be like, alright. We got this much physical manifestation and stuff like that. So then when Freddie does it, it is Blood. Right? Like like, if if it was one to 10 for what the the the Nighthags and shadow people were doing, Freddie is going to a 100.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. It's like like, they sit there and they see the navigator start start Blood. Seizing in the in their chair and they're like, oh, shit. What's going on here?

T.C.:

Oh my god.

Jim:

And then suddenly slashes and more like, oh, yeah. Okay. So so we get to see that. Mhmm. Then we cut back to the dream doctor and and final girl.

Jim:

They're they're they retreat back to where our our fighters are.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And they're they're not doing much. There's there's not much necessarily here or or or they're like, whatever. Like, we gotta go. We gotta go. And there, they don't understand

T.C.:

they can turn to the doctor and be like, what have you done? It's like, I I I let me listen. I can explain. I can explain. And it's already too late because Freddie's been unleashed.

T.C.:

Mhmm. And now what proceeds is a, the deter like deciding whether or they're gonna try to go take the offensive to go find him and fight him. B, don't go to sleep because this thing is this entity, it's Freddy Krueger. He's marked us, so he want he's gonna kill us all. So now we have the whole stay awake, whatever skill they have in that.

T.C.:

And okay. So then the two two final pieces of puzzle here not final piece of the puzzle, but two main pieces of the puzzle to consider here is why is our final girl ultimately so special that that she is there anything extra to her that she becomes the the prime target of all this? Or the one who survives? Or are we going to treat this like alien and we shouldn't necessarily assume she's gonna be our final girl?

Jim:

We probably shouldn't. Fuck. The way we introduce her, she's very clearly our final girl.

T.C.:

We could we could skip that introduction and just have it she's a new intern to this that she we could skip her being found and just get right to well, day one on the job. Let me know if you have any questions. You've passed all the like, are you sure you're ready for this? Yeah. Yeah.

T.C.:

I I think I understand. We just learn as a go. It might be enough to go. That's our final girl. But do we do we want to make her any more special of a target?

T.C.:

Or do we treat this more like alien and aliens where it's circumstantial as opposed to the chosen one? Because there's a second thing that we need to consider here, but let's

Jim:

What's discuss thing?

T.C.:

What's Freddie what let's we need to discuss Freddie and and what we're gonna do with him, why he's here, like all his all the questions around him.

Jim:

Alright. So more of this movie is gonna be about Freddie than I thought. So that throws our three set map out the window. That's fine. Basically, we have we have one, two quick unnamed scenes to show our heroes being good at their job.

Jim:

Mhmm. And then this happens. All hell breaks loose. And this so this, I think, literally happens. So this happens at night.

Jim:

Our crew gets out. They're freaking out. We're gonna go back to the dream world as Freddie is is coming back. If we're gonna put this in Springwood Mhmm. Where he's reunleashed

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

He's going to jump into dreams, and we're gonna see random dreamers, and we're gonna see the random creatures that are there that have that our crew didn't get to to take out or whatever. And I think Freddie's gonna be like, hey. I'm in charge here. And they're like, who are you? And he's like, I'm Freddie, bitch.

Jim:

And but what's gonna happen is Freddie's now he's going to imbue these creatures Mhmm. With more power.

T.C.:

Okay. Pause that line of thinking, because I I'm not sure I love that. Let's back up here. Your initial notion that he doesn't show up till the end, sell that to me. Sell that sell it to me that Freddie's only in fifteen minutes of this movie.

T.C.:

Because that was your initial thought. Right? Yeah. Okay.

Jim:

Save the best for last.

T.C.:

Pitch that to me.

Jim:

Well, because this this is a as I understood the demand, they wanted there was more interest in meeting the dream warriors and other creatures in this world. Mhmm.

T.C.:

Which I I think we have done. We've established this. It's it's still not to interrupt you here, but it still comes down to then what's the big threat here? We can't just go from creature to creature. We still need the scientists trying to event Horizon essentially.

T.C.:

Yeah. Like, having that payoff with only fifteen minutes left of the movie. Okay. Let let me give you another framework that does this.

Jim:

Okay. Hellraiser. Mhmm. Pinhead and the Cenobites are in

T.C.:

Five minutes.

Jim:

Maybe five minutes in the movie. Because it's literally at the end when they finish the call and they show up, they drag them away.

T.C.:

Yeah. So it by that logic, if we're going to build up this movie with incidents with the threats of hell being open or heaven being discovered.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

And then Freddie comes out, it's show time, bitch. And he and he kills all eight of our main characters in the next fifteen minutes and then the movie's over. Why even use them? I'm not being I'm I'm not trying to challenge you on this. I'm just trying to figure out if that works.

T.C.:

Is that satisfying?

Jim:

It because I I I guess he would kill most of them, but it's now about our characters getting away.

T.C.:

Sure.

Jim:

And it's a it it basically, it's it's the grand opening. It it's a grand opening. So it's so it's been it's been this this seventy five minute buildup Uh-huh. Of look at this world. Check out this world, and now we're gonna open the open the gates to Jurassic Park and the Tyrannosaur is gonna come out.

T.C.:

What and when does that happen? That right. I was literally just thinking of Jurassic Park because the the the T. Rex attack is halfway through that movie. When the power goes out in Jurassic Park

Jim:

That's it's because that that's alright. I was trying to use other analogies, but you're using you're using the timelines of those more specifically. I'm thinking the timeline of Hell Hellraiser.

T.C.:

Sure. The the

Jim:

Freddie isn't the point. Mhmm. He's just the the the apex.

T.C.:

Right.

Jim:

He's he's the culmination. Okay. So And and so the the idea is, oh, we got this whole world. We we understand, and then our team can even be like, we're one of several teams. We're not the only dream warriors.

Jim:

These are just the dream warriors we've met, and they don't all have to die. They can get away for a sequel. Because maybe I'm also, maybe I'm misunderstanding the point of this legacy sequel.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Maverick was to revisit and and relive Top Gun. Right. It wasn't to open Top Gun, the franchise.

T.C.:

Well, let's go back to the demand. Going back to the demand.

Jim:

Let's go

T.C.:

back to the demand. Okay. Nightmare on Elm Street made six movies, but the franchise really found its footing with with three, four, and five, which showed that people could actually become powerful inside dreams and fight back. One of the things that always fascinated my studio is that there were hints that Freddie was the only dream entity in existence. What else is out there to face from the dream realm?

T.C.:

Using the mythology of one through six, and ignoring everything from Freddie's dead, after Freddie's dead, give us a legacy sequel that feels like the best parts of Dream Warriors and Dream Masters, so three and four, and equal parts horror, imagination, and dark comedy. It's been thirty five years since Freddie was last seen, after the daughter of Maggie Burroughs defeated him. Who are the dream warriors now? Is there a group protecting us? What are they fighting?

T.C.:

And most importantly of all, will Freddy Krueger ever return?

Jim:

Okay. Yep. Let's let's pivot Okay. With with however much of the show we got left. I still think our scientist is plumbing the depths of dreams for heaven and hell, mostly heaven, and he gets it wrong.

Jim:

Mhmm. And I still think that unleashes Freddie at the end.

T.C.:

Okay.

Jim:

It's it and, again, it's still a a a final act unleash. Mhmm. Our characters are chasing down other big bads that they have know of and cataloged. Mhmm. Have you heard of the top hat man?

Jim:

Yes. They're chasing the top hat man. Mhmm.

T.C.:

So that that's our main villain in this?

Jim:

Or the Sandman. Okay.

T.C.:

Oh. Or Morpheus.

Jim:

Or something. Or or Morpheus.

T.C.:

Or or like this.

Jim:

Or that's all the same dude.

T.C.:

Yeah. The yes. Yeah. Yeah. That.

T.C.:

So this isn't this isn't a Freddy Krueger movie. This isn't a return to Elm Street. This is dream warriors fighting dream things. Yes. And in the finale, the the final thing unleashed on them is let's say it's the top hat man slash Morpheus slash some sort of incubus who's like that they've been facing off this whole time, and he goes and he's like on the back ropes and he ropes and he opens a gate.

T.C.:

He's like, hey, if you can't fight me, you can fight one of my soldiers. And then Freddie Kruger steps out.

Jim:

I don't I don't don't care for that. I don't I don't care that it it

T.C.:

Then my then I go back to a question I said earlier. Sure. We might as well not even use Freddie.

Jim:

Okay.

T.C.:

Just keep him out

Jim:

of this. I don't I don't fully agree, but okay.

T.C.:

Well, I okay. I I agree gonna with have to say agree again then. I'm I'm not trying I'm trying to

Jim:

be Because because ultimately, this is Freddie's world. Right. Our our studio is fascinated by other Entities. Dream entities, and that's and I want I wanna explore that. Mhmm.

Jim:

But if if you we can't make a movie about different aliens in the alien in the xenomorph universe Mhmm. And not bring up the xenomorph.

T.C.:

So then I I I go back to them we need to bring them in sooner. It doesn't feel like enough to just have them in the last fifteen minutes of the movie. And I know you keep citing Hellraiser. Yeah. But there is so much death, murder, and destruction involving that stupid cube and that puzzle leading up to the reveal.

T.C.:

And the Cenobites aren't even the threat of this thing. They are just they are symptomatic of the evil that's unleashed by the puzzle box. The puzzle box is the evil. Sure. So I I centralized singular threat to these characters is important for this to be a movie.

T.C.:

If we're gonna tell the story of these guys fighting dream demons, it might as well be a TV show. And then we can just face off of one after the other and develop these characters and their and their personal lore over the course of multiple stories and eventually get to Freddy Krueger in some capacity. I I'm I'm worried that structurally, we don't have any the the main thing we have right now is this doctor who's who's obsessed with finding heaven and hell.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

Okay. I'm I'm I'm thinking this as I'm saying out loud. We have a doctor character who's been working for this organization for fifteen years. Yep. He he's he's one of the most important figures in this organization.

T.C.:

Mhmm. There have been losses over the decades. Okay. Because the dreamscape is dangerous one way or another. Sure.

T.C.:

He is our villain. He has been leading people and getting people killed intentionally or by his own hubris and getting away with it for ten years plus. Because he is so adamant about finding that gateway to the next realm that he will. And so we have this new girl. He will get people killed.

T.C.:

So have this new girl who enters the equation that he's using as his newest guinea pig, and she's the one who slowly pieces together. What are you doing? This is bad. You're you're gonna get the and and Okay. And she's she starts piecing together that this guy is a nightmare human because he is so obsessed with his own focused goal here that he doesn't care who he's a scientist who will sacrifice as many subjects as possible to to get the results he wants.

Jim:

Okay.

T.C.:

And then courtesy of his own hubris, when he is is essentially cornered, he unlocks the door that Freddy Krueger steps out of. But Okay. I don't know. Does that does that jive with what you were thinking mostly? Okay.

Jim:

I'll so I'll have it I'll have my fun and

T.C.:

games around that. Yeah. Okay. But elaborate then, like

Jim:

Fun and games. It's it's mostly about elaborating on the dream monsters. Yes. Right? The other dream creatures.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Right? Essentially, what we're what we're leading back to is we'll we'll be exploring, oh, here here's the night hag. Here's the shadow people, the top hat man.

T.C.:

The Baku.

Jim:

Right. The Baku. I'll I will probably even try to shove black eyed kids in there.

T.C.:

And incubus, succubus. Yeah. Any sort of dream entity. Oh, gosh. I just thought of the movie we could probably look to more than anything, Annihilation.

Jim:

Why Annihilation?

T.C.:

Because, like, Annihilation is an exploration of a place and an idea.

Jim:

Oh, as far as, like, exploring the dream realm? Just just

T.C.:

the the whole feeling of annihilation, it is a sing it isn't a singular threat that they're trying to find. It's this notion of this place is the threat, is the danger, and and how does it affect us personally? How does it affect the main the characters personally as they unravel because of the mistakes or the hubris of this villain who's getting them all killed?

Jim:

I'm I'm I'm I'm a let you handle that. I'm more I'm more interested in in quite quite literally, the the demand was fill this world.

T.C.:

With entities. Tell tell tell the studio. Tell me

Jim:

about this world. Okay. And so that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna make monsters. We're gonna where the characters are going to talk about and interact with these monsters.

T.C.:

Give me give me a rundown of the plot then. Go like, I know

Jim:

if It's it's everything you said. And then the the the fun and games is the the wildlife, if you will Mhmm. That they encounter as as they're as they go through these these things.

T.C.:

Is there any place for what their waking life is like? Do or do we just exist in the dreamscape the entire time?

Jim:

I I think so. I I think we get a few scenes of them outside Mhmm. Of of of the dreams.

T.C.:

And your suggestion that in the dreams, Lucid is a badass, but outside the dreams, he's a bit of a pushover

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

A a shrinking violet. Yeah. And seeing how these people interact in the real world and then how they interact in the dream world.

Jim:

Mhmm. Mhmm.

T.C.:

So using Freddie for just the climax that he appears, it's more of a more of a a a surprise. Yeah. Yeah. Discuss that. Let's let's think about how is he used, who's he kill, how do they kill him.

T.C.:

What's his fate? They don't kill him. And is it Freddy Krueger, or is it a thing manifesting as Freddy Krueger?

Jim:

I don't I don't want to use him unless it is him.

T.C.:

Great. Okay. So the doctor fucks up to the point of breaking the barrier that was containing Freddy Krueger. He comes out. Is he is he ready to go right away, or is he weakened and he gains strength?

T.C.:

Like he's I'm

Jim:

not sure. I I also, you had such a strong reaction to Freddie being here. I have I've I've pivoted a bit to take some of the emphasis off Freddie. It's not that a gate is opened and just Freddie steps through. Mhmm.

Jim:

I I also I still like, the doctor. Ultimately, it's it's he is the one who who says the thing that makes it happen.

T.C.:

Uh-huh.

Jim:

But it's it's him manipulating the girl to to open the door. Mhmm. Let's give her a name. Pandora. It that doesn't have the Pandora.

Jim:

Pandora. Classic name. We had an

T.C.:

Alice already in this in this

Jim:

Yeah. We

T.C.:

did. Franchise. What about a Dorothy?

Jim:

Sure. Okay. But the the the reason I say Pandora is, essentially, that's what I'm gonna suggest is Mhmm. The doctor in his search has been communicating with a dream being

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Who keeps telling him, it's this way. It's this way.

T.C.:

Come. Come.

Jim:

And he believes that it's it's, like, it's leading him to heaven because

T.C.:

Angelic voice. Yeah. Sure.

Jim:

Yeah. And ultimately, it's not, and they get to this thing, and there there's a a thing a a some sort of confrontation. Maybe it's it's he's being tricked with some sort of dream glamour

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

But the others aren't. So, like, what are you doing? That's clearly a Gollum. Yeah. And he's like, it's not a Gollum.

T.C.:

It's a pretty angel lady.

Jim:

Yeah. And but he somehow gets Dorothy to bust in this one last door.

T.C.:

Yes.

Jim:

This because this is it. We're here. The the angel says it's here. Yeah. Yeah.

Jim:

So he needs so it busts that open, and it's and it I said Pandora because it's literally a Pandora's box. It's hell be unleashed. Freddie's gonna step through. That's the one we recognize, but other terrible demons are gonna the weird swimmy demons, those will come through.

T.C.:

Basically, every every thing we ever saw in this franchise.

Jim:

Kinda. Yeah. But demons Ghosts. Demons are gonna come through. So we've through the movie, through eight the the first seventy minutes of this movie Mhmm.

Jim:

We get an an Audubon guide to to dream creatures.

T.C.:

Speeding through the dream world. If you look to your left, you'll see an incubus.

Jim:

And and then here at the end, boom, the gates to hell have been burst open, and hell has been unleashed into the dream realm.

T.C.:

Okay.

Jim:

And so demons have have are are are now back out are in here.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Freddie will just be one of them and essentially the face of them. Mhmm. They're not necessarily he's not necessarily the worst

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Thing. He's definitely at the Or mouth biggest or whatever. Say hello to my little friends

T.C.:

Yeah. Bitch.

Jim:

That kind of thing. Yeah. That that's essentially what I'm I'm see and he he and or the demons that come out cut down to a couple of our characters Mhmm. Here. And in this this final act, I realize that's that's super late.

Jim:

Now it's a matter of escaping from the dream realm. Yeah. Something happens something happens in that in that final thing that traps our characters there. The deal that the doctor makes is he secretly or or or just somehow he cuts everyone's silver cords. That's the deal he makes with the angel.

Jim:

Like, no. You you can't open the gates to heaven when you are still tethered to earth.

T.C.:

The the the deep they've gone deeper. Like, if we have an operator on the outside who is monitoring all this is like, what where the the I can't wake them up. Yeah. They're they're off monitor right now. Where are they?

T.C.:

They're no longer showing up on on on they're Yeah. And so he he has trapped them past a point of no return, and they didn't even realize it.

Jim:

Yes.

T.C.:

Like, he and and we've lost

Jim:

And so now they're now they're running. They're running from from everything.

T.C.:

We have to get back to it's a little inception y. Right? We have to get to a certain level to kick I

Jim:

forgot to invoke I wanted to invoke Inception earlier as well.

T.C.:

Dream dream dream stuff all all day along with Inception, but this is a horror movie. Yeah. And we could have lost a couple characters along the way in a

Jim:

couple Up to this point? Yeah. Yeah. We probably should have.

T.C.:

Because I like this, like, this doctor's negligence causing deaths, and he's had been able to cover it up to this point. But our our new intern here, she Dorothy is is And to to Justice Trish. To invoke

Jim:

an earlier episode. We can even have it be like Event Horizon where a couple people are lost in earlier encounters Yes. Because of quote unquote accidents.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

But it was either the doctor sabotaging a thing because they were about to find out and tell someone Yes. Or even his angel guide traps them somewhere and and and kills them or entices them Mhmm. Or something like that.

T.C.:

Yeah. And then once that gateway is open, they are all all they can do they can't shut it. All they can do is flee and get out. And now they've escaped, but oopsie. Yeah.

T.C.:

The the the it's the the the things are free. And and now there is no happy ending here. This is like we we may have gotten

Jim:

out, but And if we are in Springwood for this Yeah. I like they get out and they're like, and it's like what? Two, maybe three of them are still alive, if if not just Dorothy. Yeah. And and so our operator and and and whoever, our our our survivors Yeah.

Jim:

They're like, oh my god. Well, we got out. They're they're free. The hell's hell's broken open. Mhmm.

Jim:

And we just hear screams throughout the town.

T.C.:

And they've lost. They yeah. They failed. Mhmm. They the the the dream the dream gate has crashed.

T.C.:

Dream crashed.

Jim:

Dream crashed.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah. And there there this is not a move that resolves itself with the happy ending. It resolves itself with, like, the nightmare is real. The nightmare is alive and back, and we and we have failed.

Jim:

It is right. Like, is that is that the the demand to to be, like or

T.C.:

or should we There wasn't anything that demands say we had to have a good ending, like a happy ending here. And if you look at something like the crazies, has a similar ending. Like, we got away from the city, and we're going directly to another city that has crazies. So Dawn of the Dead, like, if there's zombie apocalypse scenario, doesn't end with them curing zombieism, World War z aside.

Jim:

So this is this isn't hell on Earth. It's hell on dream.

T.C.:

Hell on dream. Nightmare A Nightmare on Elm Street. Hell on dream. Boo. That's a terrible title.

T.C.:

That sounds like a knockoff. There were somnonauts. Somnonauts. And yeah. So our at least our final girl gets out, and our doctor probably gets it the worst, probably last.

T.C.:

And and all these entities, including Freddy Krueger, are now available to terrorize the world. Yeah. Way to go, dream nuts.

Jim:

A nightmare on Earth Street.

T.C.:

Okay. Alright. I I'm that does that not feel No. No. I I I'm trying to think if there's anything left hanging there that we can't elaborate upon to to strengthen this pitch because I think we've we've gotten ourselves here pretty well.

T.C.:

It's it's that or

Jim:

okay. I I'm just I I'm nervous about the idea of invoking the world of Nightmare on Elm Street, but never bringing in Freddie.

T.C.:

Well, I think we have to. If it I've my my

Jim:

only concern other thing is we don't ever do that. We just have new

T.C.:

Dream Warning.

Jim:

New bad guys. Yeah.

T.C.:

Then we can't call it Nightmare on Elm Street.

Jim:

We

T.C.:

can't. We it just exists solely in that universe for people to put two and two together. Yeah. That was my argument earlier of, like, if we're only gonna use them so little, we might as well not even use them at all. Sure.

T.C.:

Because I I I do I I I'm okay. I like what this is. I could see this really working as an exploration of terror. It it does feel more event horizon y than I think we realized it was going to, which is fine. I mean, I have nothing against that.

T.C.:

If we really wanted to capture the fun of A Nightmare on Elm Street, then Freddie comes in halfway, and then we start picking people off left and right.

Jim:

Oh, that that was the other reason to so yeah. The fun. Do our dream warriors have the fun?

T.C.:

Well, I it's Oh,

Jim:

there there I think that's that's where we put the fun in. It gets a little more evil dead.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Our dream monsters are a little more deadite as in, like, they have their own fun and they have their quips, and then our dream warriors come in and they are not what the dream creatures, for the most part, expect.

T.C.:

We're not used to this. Yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. They're used to dream victims.

T.C.:

Yeah. Smile for the camera.

Jim:

Yeah. As as as these creatures get pulled into our capable trained dreamers

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Scenarios.

T.C.:

Yeah. Our our dream masters.

Jim:

Dream

T.C.:

dream warriors dream masters. Dream warriors. Yeah. Which could just be the name of the movie.

Jim:

Dream warriors. Dream soldier. Dream soldier.

T.C.:

Because it's nightmare A Nightmare on Elm Street three Dream Warriors. Yeah. So we could just call this Dream Warriors.

Jim:

We could.

T.C.:

And or yeah. Yeah. Dream Dream Warriors probably feels like because we're not evoking A Nightmare on Elm Street specifically.

Jim:

Dream Warriors isn't a great horror movie title.

T.C.:

Nightmare Warriors. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna wrap it up here. You do a little more brainstorming as we typically do.

T.C.:

I I do wanna know, Polly, how did we do? Did we did we explore the entities of the Dreamscape to your liking? Did we did we answer all your questions or or or specifically your demands here? You gotta let us know. And you listening, you gotta let us know at wherever you are.

T.C.:

You can message us directly at studio demands dot com. Find us on Instagram at studio demands it, if you want to find this episode specifically. And if you're not already, please subscribe to wherever you would like to subscribe to us because that's nice. The more subscribers we have, the better we get out into the algorithm. And you can find us on YouTube and TikTok where we post video content, including material that hurt on the show, and Facebook as well.

T.C.:

If you wanna find us over there and like us on Facebook. Also, the clips we're posting to YouTube and TikTok and Facebook are nice, little tasty morsels that you could use to share the show with people, because they're just three minutes or less, and kinda give a a nice little quick hit of what each episode is about. Jim, where else can people find us?

Jim:

Reddit at r/studiodemandsit, and at Discord on Discord, go to our website studiostudiodemandsit.com, and there should be an invite link at the top of the web page.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah. And if you want even more, you can find us on Patreon for a couple bucks a month, episodes early, commercial free, extended double length episodes, and even a bunch of movie commentary tracks you can dive into that also have hidden episodes within them. Or if you just wanna subscribe for the hey of its, we do have some free free stuff as well that we give away every now and then. But, lastly, give a big thank you to David Geisler and everything he does for our show and for the network.

T.C.:

Check out another Zelda podcast and all the other shows that he is responsible for. We love him for it. Thank you. Jim, you've had some time to scratch your beard Yeah. And run your fingers through your hair.

T.C.:

Yeah. What do got?

Jim:

Yeah. There there there would be another approach Mhmm. And that would be introduce Freddie Mac. Right? Like we we we From the get.

Jim:

We we zoom through the there's this organization. They do dream stuff. Yeah. They've been interacting with stuff back and forth. And very quickly, they accidentally unleash Freddie.

Jim:

Yeah. Get right to him. And the thing they keep going back to the heaven hell thing because he died. Right. So his soul went to hell.

Jim:

Mhmm. So we have to get him out of hell. So just dreaming him up isn't gonna work.

T.C.:

Right. We have to

Jim:

break that barrier. Yeah. So they do that. And then the rest of the movie is them trying to deal with the fallout of this. Like, how do we deal with hell in all of these?

Jim:

Everyone is literally having nightmares. Nightmares are everywhere. Freddie's running rampant. Mhmm. Like, he doesn't even care about these dream warriors because he can get anywhere and everywhere.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Be because it's the the place you cut me off before the the the suggestion that he busts out and he starts saying I'm in charge because he's a demon now. He doesn't need demons to charge him up. Mhmm. He has the powers, and he's imbuing other things with power now. Yes.

Jim:

Yes. So our characters have to scour the dreamscape Mhmm. For the rest of the movie trying to nail down Freddie, because he's it's it's no longer him stalking them. They have

T.C.:

to stalk him. And he's just having a feast of Yeah. Of terrors around stone sunny Sunnydale's.

Jim:

Spring Springwood. Springwood. Well, and and or beyond. Mhmm. The because the the the image that I I said from it was from the third one?

Jim:

It was from the third one that I absolutely loved, which is how I would have it. Like, when the Elm Street sign shot up out of the ground, I wanted that to like, I loved that. That was really evocative to me, and it's

T.C.:

The Elm

Jim:

Street can Elm Be Street can be anywhere.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Return to Elm Street. Sure.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. And and because Freddie would be introduced so quickly

T.C.:

I'd call it I'd call that nightmare return to Elm Street.

Jim:

Yeah. Sure. A nightmare on Elm Street, everywhere's Elm Street.

T.C.:

That's what the TikTokers would call it. Yeah. Alright. Cool. You you you've you've you've given the studio more than enough to think about.

Jim:

Hopefully. Hopefully, they like one of them and don't say, we're gonna we're gonna go

T.C.:

Go different direction.

Jim:

See some other writers.

T.C.:

Go different direction. Cool. Alright. Well, what's your favorite, dear listener? Which one of these pitches?

T.C.:

The one we spent most of the episode on or each subsequent shorter one that we pitched?

Jim:

Or what other ideas do you have? What did we miss?

T.C.:

Mhmm. Yeah. You tell us.

Jim:

You tell us.

T.C.:

Come on. Tell us.

Jim:

It demands from the studio. Yes.

T.C.:

Okay. That's it. Well, until next time. We know who we are. I'm T.C.

Jim:

You are T. C. Yeah.

T.C.:

I need no outroduction. Oh, callback. Did you listen to the last episode? You should.