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The episodes are the weekly sermons from 922 Ministries (St. Peter and The CORE) of Appleton, Wisconsin.
Many people struggle to see God as good when they witness suffering in the world.
Some individuals havent found enough scientific proof for gods existence.
Some people are put off by Christianitys teaching that only christians can go to heaven.
Objections they happen all the time in the world around us. We see on tv how this plays out in courtrooms, lawyers, attorneys make objections. That's hearsay. Objections, it's not relevant. Objections happen in the business world.
Maybe when you're out shopping for something or someone's trying to pitch a product to you at your company. Like, objection. It doesn't offer the features that I'm looking for. Objection. I don't know if it brings the value that I need for the cost that it is.
Objections, they happen around boardroom tables and around kitchen tables. When people who are there discussing and debating a different topic, ways in which they want to spend money, people object. Because oftentimes we think our ideas, our thoughts, our path is the right path, and we object to the others. We undermine it, we speak against it for this reason or that reason. And then there's just the reality that objections happen in our homes on a daily and regular basis.
You might not hear someone say, I object, but on a regular basis, parents object to their. To their kids and their behavior, and kids object to their parents and their rules. Like, what kid? The first time, when asked, when told by their parents, your curfew is at midnight, said, how about 1230? I object, it's too early.
Like, objections happen all the time, each and every day.
And so we should all understand and have an idea of what an objection is. But just in case you don't, I looked up in the dictionary, and I used the Cambridge dictionary to come up with this definition. An objection is a feeling or expression of opposition, dislike, or disapproval. It's a reason for disagreeing. Like when you look around the world, our world today has become a battlefield of preferences, ideas, and insights that cause people all too often to simply raise their hand and have an I object moment.
And the spiritual world in which we live. For Christians and others, the religious world of today, it's also filled with objections. Like objections happen and have been happening and involves spiritual matters since the beginning of time, the fall into sin. Like, look no further than the apostle Paul 2000 years ago when he said in one corinthians chapter one, this reality, that there were people who objected to the cross, the message of the cross of Christ, is foolishness to the world in which we live. To Jews and Gentiles, like the message of a savior who was brutally crucified as the way to heaven, was foolishness.
They objected. Paul said, so as we consider objections over the course of the next few weeks, it probably doesn't shock you. You've probably encountered them. Maybe you have them. Like there might be some of you are here today who have some of these objections, the three we're going to talk about are other objections to God, to Jesus, and to Christianity.
Maybe, you know, people who are wrestling with them, and that's why you're here. Maybe why God wants you to be here for all these weeks is because maybe at some point you're going to encounter this and have to wrestle with this objection and the tension that's behind it and why it's real. And before we get into week number one, I feel compelled in light of the fact that we live in a world where there are objections, so much opposition, feelings of disagreement, that we might have to have a common ground for this discussion. And maybe in a world where we are so polarized to have a common ground and a common understanding about how we face, deal with and discuss objections, whether they're ours or others. And so can I convince you first and foremost, if maybe you take nothing else away from this series, maybe you never encounter this objection or have this objection that whatever objections you encounter in your life as a Christian or ones that you have, can I convince you to have at least this truth put into practice?
Like if you're taking notes, hold on to this. Remember this, I want to apply this today as I'm talking and pray our pastors do the same over the next few weeks, that when people have objections, we need to have conversations.
And here's my point. Conversations, not debates.
Like debating people when they have an objection is not going to create a come to faith moment. It's only going to create hostility. Like you might be right, you might have all the facts, you might know the truth that has set you free. But if you come with a hammer instead of with an open ear and an open heart, you are not going to do any good.
And if you are the one with the objection, can I convince you that I don't want you to believe the worst about the people who might speak into it from God's perspective, but be willing, instead of having a debate, to sit down at the table and have a conversation, to seek first, to understand before you seek to be understood, to believe the best and not assume the worst.
Like have conversations because you know what happens a lot of times when people have objections, there's something behind it. Like many people's objections to Christianity, to God, to the Bible, to Jesus, is because they had a bad experience in their life.
And sometimes the bad experience was at the hands of another Christian.
Like you're not going to find that out or understand what's going on if you come with the hammer and you don't have a conversation.
And here's the other thing about objections. They're oftentimes very personal and very emotional.
They're emotional and personal. You might not understand it because you haven't gone through it, but that person going through it, or having experienced that or having had that circumstance of their life happen, has wrestled with it, struggled with it, and looked for a logical explanation that goes against maybe the biblical passages and truths about, from what God says. And in order to really grasp the depth of it, we need to be willing to have conversations to understand the reason behind it, the people that are involved in it, the emotion that is real in it.
And if that's the only thing I accomplish for you in this series, that you're willing to have conversations with people who have objections, and if you're willing to be open to, to have conversations, if you have objections, I think I. That's a win.
It's a win because then it means that we have an opportunity to. To search for answers and because we're having a conversation. Before I get into week number one, please understand, in these three weeks, there's no way that we as pastors can cover every objection to Christianity known to man. We can't even probably cover, well, the three that we're going to talk about. Like, it's just touching the surface.
It's meant to begin the conversation. It's meant to make you think that when the objection is raised or you have it, that there's another side to it, that there's not just maybe one answer, that maybe the logic behind the objection and the answer you've come up with has a counter.
And so with that in mind today, I want to dig into week number one. Perhaps one of the biggest objections that people have when it comes to God and Christianity. And I would pose to you that it's oftentimes Christians who have it, or they're now former Christians because of it, or it's people who live in our world who've encountered Christians and they look at Christians and their beliefs and know the Bible a little bit, but then look at the world, and they can't help but object. Like, how does one believe in a good God when so much evil and pain exists in the world? Like, people object like, the world in which they live, the lens through which they're viewing things, the experiences that they've had, tell them that there is pain that is real and there is evil that exists.
And if there is a God that is believed to be good, why does so much of it exist. Especially why christians wrestle with this one. For christians, like why do horrible things and a lot of pain come to God fearing people?
Like, to really understand this, you need to put yourself in the shoes of someone who has experienced pain or been the hand of a victim of evil. Like to look at the world in which we live. Unless you've gone through it, you wouldn't maybe understand why this is such an objection. So consider the person who has been the victim of the abuse of a person who on Sunday comes to church and praises God, but during the week swings, fists and shouts, verbal accusations, or even worse, maybe physical assault. And you might begin to understand why someone would have this objection.
Or how about that person who since age ten was diagnosed with that disease and the doctor says there's nothing we can do. We can kind of try and mitigate the pain. But you are going to have chronic pain until the day you die.
And slowly it, day after day, year after year, the pain gets worse. And you wonder why, God, why won't you do something, God, why do you just leave me here, God, and not take me, God? Like, do you understand where this objection could be real? Maybe it's real for you.
So with that objection in mind, I want to give you the attention and the real objection and then walk you through, after considering it, see where it comes from. Seeking first to understand the objection before we seek to let God speak into it to allow him to be understood. And then I believe I'm going to give you three answers. They might not solve the problem, solve the objection for you, but maybe it'll cause you to question them just a little bit more, to consider it from God's perspective. Now here's the honest tension to this objection.
If then, if there is an all loving God, then he should stop evil and eliminate pain. Like Christians and non Christians alike all agree that when it comes to the God of the Bible, the God that's talked about in the book of the Bible, he is described as loving. Like non Christians know John 316, for God so loved the world, non Christians know that the Bible says God is love, and all of us have in our minds an idea and definition of what love is. Use the nine two two definition of love and you have you first is our definition. Like if we apply that to ourselves and then we apply it to God.
If God is you first, if he is an all loving God, if God is love, then he should stop evil and pain.
Like it makes sense, doesn't it?
Like it makes sense to me as a pastor when one of you sits in that chair and I hear the story. And my heart aches and breaks because of the evil that you've endured, the pain that you're going through. And I know that there are only a few things that will happen as you leave. You will remain in it for a while. It takes time to heal.
Like, the pain from some evil is so big, it will rear its ugly head over and over again. And as I sit there and wish that I could do something about it, and the question comes up, why is God allowing this to happen? Why won't God take it away? Why would God ever let it happen to me? Part of me wants to say, I don't know.
It doesn't make sense to me either. Because if I was God, I would take it away.
That's what that tension causes. Which leads to the real objection. Like, it's not really about God as love, but the real objection is an objection to an all knowing, all powerful good God. Like, if he knows it all and can do it all, then if he's good, he would, right?
He'd either take me from earth right now so I never had to go through the chronic pain or take it away. That would be good.
If he's all knowing and all powerful and good, then no person, no woman, no child, no teen, no college age student should ever be abducted and traded for sex. Like, right.
Like, no eight year old child who lives in his house with mom and dad or grandpa and grandma should ever be the one who takes the stray bullet through the window that was intended for somebody else. Wrong place, wrong time. Never.
Like, I get this objection. It's a logical objection.
But where emotion and things are personal, sometimes logic isn't the best thing to follow.
Like, when you're emotional, when there's something you're passionate about, when it's personal, like, sometimes we don't see all of the story, consider all of the possibilities. Like, this objection is an easy one to come up with when the pain and. And evil and circumstances are hard.
So can I at least pose the question to us that our thoughts and our ideas and our ways in which we would handle things regarding pain and evil can at least be put alongside of another possible path and answer, like, if you have this objection and it calls God who is good, into question because it's based on what you think it should be, the if of your life and what you think God should do, can I at least pose that the Bible would ask you to consider this God speaking? My thoughts are not your thoughts. My ways are not your ways, declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. Like, at least for consideration, God would have us seek to understand him as a part of this conversation.
If we want to seek to understand the objection, if we want people to have conversations and dialogue about this objection that might be real for you, we at least have to allow some understanding of God if his character and his goodness is going to be in question. God would say, your thoughts and my thoughts are not one and the same. And for the sake of conversation right now, I'm not saying God's are right and yours are wrong. He gets to slam you with an iron fist, and you just have to take it and accept it. But if that's the case and that's the God of the Bible that we're debating and he says this to be true, then can we at least consider his thoughts and his ways on the topic of evil and pain for the next few minutes?
Because I think when we do, we'll get some answers that might help us in the conversation. Answer number one, like when this conversation is had, it basically boils down to this fact that people look at evil in the world and they question God, but they forget where to point the finger. God would say, or at least consider possible places to point the finger. Like if you ask philosophers, if you ask experts, if you ask psychologists, if you ask people who, who dig into the topic of evil and why does it exist? There are several theories.
Theories. No one can prove it, going from blaming God or even force believing that evil exists as a part of God's plan, like he is the author of evil. Others believe it arises from human choice, as experts say. These theories explain why evil exists, why pain is real. But there's no perfect answer as to why.
Like experts would tell you there is no explanation. So it has to be on a list of possible ideas that it's not just God as the author of it, but there's other reasons. And answer number one that God would want us to consider up to this objection is this evil and pain only exists in the parentheses. Like, you know, parentheses captures something inside of it. Evil and pain only exist in the parentheses.
It wasn't at the beginning, and it won't be when it ends.
Like pain and evil exist in the parentheses of the fall into sin to Jesus return on the last day. Like pain and evil weren't there when God made all things, like the Bible says. So pain and evil won't be there in heaven one day for believers, God says so pain and evil and its reason for existence. Pain and evil is in the parentheses of this life, our world, and has for thousands of years. Because Satan rebelled against God, because Adam and Eve wanted to be like God, like the cause of evil.
The reason for pain is Adam and Eve and the fall into sin. It's the parentheses.
And ever since, every person has been born in this world dealing with its consequences.
Like, here's the biblical truth of those parentheses. God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. Genesis one, right at the end, there was evening and there was morning, the 6th day. Good, good, God said. Good, perfect, God said.
But something changed at the end of chapter two, when Adam and Eve had been created and they wore no clothes and there was no shame. Chapter three gives us the insight to Adam and Eve's desire to be like God. The devil's tempting them, and a result of that, God says to Adam, you're the reason for evil and pain. Cursed is the ground because of you. Through painful toil, you will eat all food from it, all the days of your life.
It'll produce thorns and thistles, you'll eat the plants of the field by the sweat of your brow. You'll eat your food until you return to the ground, you die. Pain, it's a consequence of sin, evil, since from it you were taken for dust you are to dust, you will return, like the parentheses of evil. And pain's beginning is found in the garden and the fall. But God promises it will end.
He says this in revelation, chapter 21. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. No more death or mourning or crying or pain. For the old order of things has passed away, like evil and pain only exist in the parentheses of the fall, to the return of Jesus. Before the fall, it was not here, so it can't be God's doing.
And after, God will make it so that it no longer is here.
And I think that's important to this debate and this objection, because the objection really points at the character of God, the actions of God. But those two actions tell us God is not the one who designed it to be this way, wants it to be this way, or will leave it this way. Like, please weigh that in the conversation.
And you know what else that whole truth reveals to us? Like, the tension that is here is the if and then of God being loving, then he would do blank. And people want an all powerful, all knowing God to act and be good and not allow evil and pain. You know, where those collide the garden.
Have you ever wrestled with the question or thought, why didn't God, who's all knowing, all powerful, when Adam and Eve turned their backs on him, wanted to be like, God, why didn't God just wipe them out before they could pass sin on? Like, if the God of heaven and earth could just speak the word and everything could come into existence, he could just speak the word and blow it up and start with human life again another time, right? Have you ever thought that? Have you ever wrestled with that? Like, why God didn't you do that?
Because God is all loving.
God loved Adam and Eve, and in the face of sin, God didn't want to start over and eradicate them. He wanted to save them.
Like, so when we question God's character about evil and pain and not loving, look at how God loved Adam and Eve in the garden and didn't wipe them out, but made a plan to save.
And that God, who was all loving, knew what the consequences were to that. By not wiping them out, pain and evil would remain until the last day and the return. Like God, you couldn't have it both ways with God. If he saved them and he loved them and wanted to rescue them, he couldn't just eliminate what they had brought into the world.
But here's the thing. If he is all powerful and as a result of his love, he didn't do that, maybe the all powerful God could use pain and evil for greater good at times.
That's what the Bible says. Like the apostle Paul, who went through pain, who endured imprisonment, who had thorns in his flesh, who probably had every reason to consider evil and pain in his life, and maybe shake his fist and question God and his goodness. The Apostle Paul said this in a chapter where he talked about suffering and what christians endure. And we know that in all things, God works for the good of those who love him, in all things, good, bad, evil, joy, pain, happiness. God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose in all things.
That's the Bible's answer. In all things. Like, God can work in pain and use pain. And I know, logically speaking, it might not make sense. I know it's not fair.
I know it is hard. Please do not leave here today if you are suffering with pain or know someone who's suffering in pain and tell them you have the answers and in the process minimize their pain. I do not want to minimize pain or evil, like pain, is difficult. Losing people we love is horrible, chronic pain. I wish it would be gone.
Losing children if you are a parent to deadly diseases, I wish it would never happen. If you're going through pain, if you've been the victim of abuse of any kind, I do not want to minimize it. I'm not trying to give you answers to minimize it. I'm just trying to hold up answers that might help in the middle of it, it that maybe, just maybe, God in the middle of it might work and use it for some good. Maybe someone else is good, maybe your spiritual good, maybe eternal good, maybe for someone else's physical good, because that's what God does.
The greater good. Like, look no further than Jesus. The apostle Peter in acts two and Pentecost said, God used evil for greater good, yours and mine. Listen to this. Jesus of Nazareth was accredited by God, to you, by miracles, wonders and signs, which God himself did among you, as you yourselves know, that God showed you who his son was.
God revealed over and over again how great he is and what he was doing. This man was handed over to you by God's deliberate plan and foreknowledge, like the God who's accused of not being good because evil and pain exist. Look at what God did. He used the plan of wicked, evil men who put him to death by nailing him to the cross. Like God and your greater good.
And my greater good is found in the act of God and the life of Jesus.
Like when we question how could a loving God allow evil and pain, a loving God sent his son, who was willing to endure the very pain of hell on the cross, so you and I would not suffer eternally because of evil or endure pain, the greatest of all pains, being separated from him forever. Like, that's God.
And that sounds really good for your and my greater good. Like God can use wicked things, God can use evil plans. God can use death and suffering. God can use pressure and pain for physical good, yours, mine, others, spiritually, for you or your family, eternally by bringing you home to heaven. The Bible says so.
Like, if you want to answer that, the greater good is an element in this, that when this objection is raised, Joseph would say so. Joseph, who was sold into slavery, his brothers who tricked their father, that he was dead, he spent 20 years, 20 years suffering at the hands of wicked people, dealing with evil and pain because of his brothers and others. And at the end of all that, he was up at the second in command in all of Egypt. He said, brothers, you intended to harm me. It was evil.
It was not good. It brought pain, but God intended it for good, to accomplish what is now being done the saving of many lives. Like, God used that to save millions of people. God used that to save the 70 people who were Joseph's family, who would otherwise die because of a famine. Like, that's God at work for the greater good.
But sometimes it takes 20 years.
Or how about Isaiah? The righteous perish. No one takes it to heart. The devout are taken away, and no one understands that. The righteous are taken away to be spared from evil.
Like, losing a loved one, losing someone way too early. When a spouse dies of cancer and kids get left behind, when you look at it and go, that doesn't seem right. That person had so much to live for. Like, I think this too. Like, I think about myself.
Like, what if I died now? My kids, they need their dad still at certain times. And my grandkids, they still need me and my wife around. But what if God took me suddenly?
Like he's sparing me from all the evil and pain here? I get to go to heaven. As hard as it is to be here, sometimes God takes his people home. That doesn't make sense to us when, but he's bringing something better.
And sometimes he uses it for our spiritual good, to drive us to God. Look at the words of two corinthians. He says this. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to nourish. So big was the pain.
We despaired of life itself. We wanted to give up like God, just end it. Indeed, we felt we had received the sentence of death. But this happened. God used it.
Greater good. That we might not rely on ourselves, but on God. The God who saves, the God who loves, the God who says, in all things, I work for the good of those who love me, who are called according to my purpose. And his purpose for you and for me is to get us there on the other side of the parentheses.
And so if you have this objection, or know someone who does, if you wrestle with this from time to time, like, understand in the beginning and at the end, evil did not. And pain were not there. It only happened as a result of sin. Answer number two. The greater good, like, God did not wipe Adam and Eve out.
That's an all loving God. And he's a knowing God who can use it for good. History has proven it. But maybe I can give you one last convincing answer. It's the final answer when it comes to this objection.
Like, if you hold both of those things up side by side, I get it. If you wrestle logically with. I don't see, Pastor Tim, how there could be any greater good out of this, I don't see it. But at the same time, I understand that, that maybe, just maybe, I need to wrestle with the question. Am I qualified to question and judge God if his thoughts are not my thoughts?
Like, I don't get it, but I'm not sure I'm qualified to judge if those two things are even equal on the scale. When this objection comes up, can I ask you what the tiebreaker is like? Who gets to settle the tie?
Can I at least put in your heart and in your head Jesus. Like, can Jesus be the tiebreaker?
Because Jesus gets it.
Like, Jesus endured evil. Jesus endured the greatest pain.
Like he gave up the riches of heaven and came down to earth, was rejected, despised, crucified, bloodied and beaten so that you and I would be forgiven and saved. Can the objection to God and him being a loving God who allows evil, God, who doesn't eliminate pain? God. Can the answer be found in Jesus, who came and endured pain so that you and I would know no pain eternally? He was despised by men.
God gets it. Is the answer. A man of suffering familiar with pain. Jesus was familiar with it. He was despised.
He took up our pain. In fact, he was familiar with pain, but he also carried our pain, the pain of our sin, what we deserved. He was punished by God, stricken by God, afflicted. He was pierced, crushed for our iniquities. The punishment that brought us peace was on him like pain and evil.
Jesus knows he gets it. I don't want to minimize your pain, but Jesus, and Jesus wants you to hear it. He won't either. He gets it.
And so with all those things in mind, like, I don't know if I answered your objection. I don't know if I perfectly solved it, but if we're going to allow God to be a part of this conversation, can those answers at least be a stone in your shoe today? Like when you wrestle with this, when you have this objection, and maybe, just maybe, I'd close with this, speak to three different groups of people who are here today, those of you who have this objection or know someone who does, who are wrestling with this objection right now. To those of you who aren't dealing with pain and haven't been the victim of evil, and those of you who are in the midst of it right now, pain and evil are real in your life and in your world. To those of you with the objection, can I at least have you wrestle with that question?
Am I in the position to judge God? And is it possible that there's a greater good. And he gets it. To those of you who aren't suffering from evil or pain right now, can I convince you to not say, Pastor Tim, that was the biggest waste of 40 minutes of my life. Because someday down the road, you will endure some sort of evil and you will face some pain.
Like, can I encourage you to be proactive in your roots? Gather, group, grow. Continue to exercise them so that when pain comes, because it might come out of nowhere that you don't get bitter, that you might just remember that God is better.
And if you're in it right now, please hear me. There is hope and there is help. You are not alone. There are others who have gone through it. And we have a church family who wants to be there to support you in it.
But above all, you have a savior who gets it, like, I get why you're bitter. But he promises it can get better. And he assures us that one day we'll all be better.