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Real faith. Real life. Hosted by Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown of Sandals Church, The Debrief Podcast goes beyond Sunday conversations—diving into the questions, stories, and struggles that shape who we are. Thoughtful. Honest. Unfiltered.
Welcome to the Debrief Podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown, where we take your real questions about faith, the bible, and culture, and give you honest practical advice you can trust. We're glad you're here. Now let's get into today's episode.
Speaker 2:Hey, Debrief listeners. Today is a really fun episode. We're gonna talk about the power and mysticism of the Holy Spirit. Should Christians manifest and can our loved ones see us from heaven? So you ready to get into those?
Speaker 2:I am. Okay. The first one comes from Colin in Canyon Lake, California. Says, with regard to the mystical nature of the Holy Spirit, we were wondering in our community group if the spirit moves in people or for people prior to their being a profession of faith. We were wondering if the Holy Spirit works in the lives of non Christians or only once they become Christians.
Speaker 2:Such a good question.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So Colin, just so you know, this is on my idea board for a sermon series for the next year. Literally, the series idea is called mystery, unraveling the second person of the Trinity because I think there's a lot of confusion Mhmm. As to the nature and person of the Holy Spirit. And just there there are some things that are confusing.
Speaker 3:Right? There's the spirit of Jesus, there's the spirit of God, and then there's the Holy Spirit. And so sometimes it can get a little confusing about specifically when is it the unique person of the Holy Spirit, and when is it the spirit of God, or when is it the spirit of Jesus. So this is a great, great question. I can't answer, you know, all of the mystical nature of the Holy Spirit, so I'm gonna just focus on your question.
Speaker 3:You were wondering in our community group, a, thank you for being a community group. It's so important that you're in spiritual community because this is the best place to kind of ask your questions and exercise your faith. So you said, in community group, if the spirit moves in people or for people prior to their being in professional faith. So, Colin, you've actually stumbled upon a really huge theological question within denominations. And so since about really the birth of Protestantism Protestants, there we go, this has been one of the questions.
Speaker 3:Because when the Catholic priests moved out and protested the Catholic church, this was one of the the huge questions of the Protestant movement. What is the role of the Holy Spirit in the lives of people before they get saved? And just so you know, this has not been settled. So I don't want you to feel like my answer is gonna settle it because people are gonna be on both sides. What I would say is clearly the Holy Spirit can move in the lives of people before they are saved.
Speaker 3:I would even say this, you cannot be saved unless the Holy Spirit is moving in you, convicting you of your sin Mhmm. And of your need to confess Jesus Christ as Lord. So I think we need the Holy Spirit to do both of those things in us and through us. And so and and and everyone would say, well, okay. Why is that controversial?
Speaker 3:Because then the issue becomes, can you resist the Holy Spirit? Can you say no to the Spirit? And I would say I resist the Holy Spirit every day because I'm a sinner. But yes. So I would say, Colin, the Holy Spirit moves in people who are not Christians prior to their faith.
Speaker 3:I would say people cannot get saved at sandals, let's just pick sandals, because of my message, like, because I'm persuasive or because I've made a good point or they thought I was funny. God uses the abilities that he's given me, but without the Holy Spirit, my talk cannot save anybody. Mhmm. So it's the cooperation of my preparation, the Spirit's work, and really the believer's heart. So so, you know, or the non believer's heart.
Speaker 3:So so what's happening? And by the way, this is also happening with believers because you can be a believer sitting in church and resist the Holy Spirit, reject the Holy Spirit, you know, rebuff So the Holy so that happens in churches all across the world. But we need the Holy Spirit to be a part of that because you have to ask yourself, I mean, there there's all kinds of religions in the world, how do you know which one is true? That's the Holy Spirit's job, is to point people to their sin. Right?
Speaker 3:So the reason there's good news is there's really bad news. Mhmm. So the Holy Spirit reveals there's really bad news. I'm a sinner. I need to be saved.
Speaker 3:Then the Holy Spirit points you to the solution. Jesus is the solution and the only way by which people can be saved. And so that confession and it's not like it's not like the Holy Spirit does this without you. K? And so there are some people that would say, my Calvinist friends would say, it's it's all the work of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 3:What I would say is no. It's it's a cooperative movement with the the Holy Spirit convicting you, but God is not going to save someone that does not wanna be saved. So Holy Spirit is involved in that process, convicting you, letting you know, here's the problem, here's the solution, but you still have to make a decision. We are all responsible for our decision. And so you said, next, we were wondering if the Holy Spirit works in the lives of non Christians.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. The Holy Spirit can work in all kinds of ways. The spirit of God can work in both Christians and non Christians alike because the spirit of God is present on earth working. A lot of Christians mistakenly believe that the Holy Spirit's role only occurs at Pentecost. There's a great book written by Mark Driscoll that's called The Spirit Filled Jesus, and it actually reveals the Holy Spirit's role in his life.
Speaker 3:And the argument that Mark makes is that if Jesus had to be filled by the Holy Spirit, you know, to do what he did, then then then we have to do that. Mhmm. And and that starts at the conception of Jesus. That starts with John the Baptist leaping out, you know, towards Jesus in his mother in his mother's womb. So I I think it's so important that we we just realize that the Holy Spirit is present.
Speaker 3:And so the Holy Spirit can so how is the Holy Spirit present? It can convict somebody. Hey, we we need to go to church. Why would you say that? Why would you think you need to go to church?
Speaker 3:Hey, we need to go to Sandals Church. Hey, I just have this feeling. And so they might not be able to identify the spirit's power or the spirit's work, they would say, I'm feeling something, something is pushing me, something is directing me.
Speaker 2:Or sometimes I think, like, why did something used to not bother me, but now it does. Yeah. Right? Like, why was I okay with this before or not? Or have a sense of something that's right or was right, but now Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like, for example, you could drink like a fish in college, and then one day, you're like, I should I should stop doing this. And it's not like somebody said you had a problem, it's not like you don't like alcohol, but there's this conviction, and that's the presence of the Holy Spirit saying, hey, this isn't for you anymore, and you need to move away for that. So the Holy Spirit does two things, convicts us of sin and directs us towards Jesus, and really three things, and then empowers the believer with supernatural gifts. So I I think that's a great great question, but just know, you know, Sandals is a big church. People are gonna come from all kinds of different denominations, so there's not gonna be unity on this answer within our church because people are gonna be taught different things based upon, you know, their denominational teachings or preferences.
Speaker 3:But most denominations would say, you know, the Holy Spirit is at work everywhere in the world because he's doing his job, convicting the world of sin, pointing people to to the coming judgment and to the solution, which is Jesus. And so I I would just encourage you. This is we can pray the Holy Spirit into the lives of people. So for example, people will come up to me all the time after church in the lobby and say, you know, my son's a drug addict or my daughter-in-law cheated on her husband, and they'll say pray for them. So And here's the thing, God is not gonna coerce them to change.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. So what I do is two things. I ask God to remove the enemy. So if there's anything evil, right, you know, witchcraft, demonization, you name it, I I asked I asked God to remove that because I want it to be a fair fight, and it's not a fair fight if if you're wrestling the devil. So let's let's remove the devil from the situation, and then I invite the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 3:Because ultimately, the person has to choose to want to reconcile their marriage. The person has to choose to go to rehab. The person has to believe that they have a problem, whatever it is. And so the Holy Spirit is the nudging of God, hey, change your life. And so that's what it is, the encouragement of God, change your life.
Speaker 3:But it is not a force of God where it forces you to change. And a lot of us get frustrated with God because he doesn't make people change. And God no more makes, you know, your spouse change than he makes you change. He no more forces your children to change than he forces you to change. And so that's the role of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 3:It's a it's a powerful form of our conscience that is not coming from ourselves, but it is coming from the very mind and power of Supernatural? Yeah. It's supernatural. So that's a great question, Colin, and I think that this is the Holy Spirit nudging me maybe to do that series.
Speaker 2:Maybe?
Speaker 3:Yeah. It was good.
Speaker 2:Okay. This next one comes from Tiffany in Riverside and I think this is also such a timely question in regards to manifesting. Tiffany writes this, manifesting, it's been around just as long as vision boards, but I've heard Christians claim it as a spiritual practice practice of sorts, a way of bringing about their hopes and dreams. In the life of a believer, could it be likened to prayer or could it actually deplete our faith in God? Could it transfer power from him to us?
Speaker 3:Yeah, man. So this is there's a lot here, Tiffany. Thank you for this great question. So manifesting has just continued to grow in popularity, and basically, it's just a fancy word for name it and claim it. That's just kind of the underlying truth.
Speaker 3:So I can speak this into existence, and I deal with this in my book Everyday A Miracle. You you can't name it and you can't claim it because it's not your name that does it, and you don't have the power to do it. So I wanna be really, really careful that we just don't believe that we can say things, we can't speak things into reality. Only God can do that. So here's where manifesting sort of is good.
Speaker 3:If I constantly tell myself I'm no good, I'm ugly, I'm a loser, I'll never I'll never get this right, I can actually create that reality for myself. So doctor Amen, we talk about him a lot. At Sandals, he calls them ants. You know, was it always negative thoughts, I think is what it is, is what what he talks about in his book. And so human nature is to be negative, and so this idea of manifesting could be to counteract that.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to speak about, you know, I'm not gonna speak about myself like I'm no good. I'm nothing. I'm not gonna beat myself down. What I can do is actually not manifest, but quote scripture and what God says I am and who God says he's called me to be. Because those things are true.
Speaker 3:God wants to manifest those things in my life. I think about the verse that you if you use for years for cultivate, that we are God's masterpiece and that he has preordained amazing things to do through us. Mhmm. And so that's out of the book of Ephesians. And so, like, God wants to do great things through me.
Speaker 3:I am not his trash, I'm his treasure. I mean, those are things kind of mantras that we can state, but we just have to be really careful that we don't make ourselves the source of our strength. That's what manifesting kinda it it it it causes me a bit of worry here. Because if you're your source of strength, right, so think about what the Bible says, I can do all things not through manifesting, but through Christ who gives me strength. So what is the source of my power?
Speaker 3:It's not my language. It's not my self talk. It's not my self buildup or my self hype.
Speaker 2:Or like it says in here, wishing. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I I think that positive self talk is important for the believer. I think the devil wants to tear you down. Mhmm. Christ wants to build you up.
Speaker 3:We're told in scripture to speak encouraging words to each other, to lift one another up, to build one another up because the world tears us down. It says, but I've heard Christians claim that as a spiritual practice, I I I would just disagree with that. I think that it's very, very dangerous, and again, because you're putting it on you rather than God. So as a way of bringing about their hopes and dreams, and sometimes what God wants to save you from is your dream. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Not everybody's better with more money. Not everybody is happier with a promotion. You know?
Speaker 2:No. We sometimes it's horrible to get what we want.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, Garth Brooks' famous song, I God for Unanswered Prayer.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 3:You know, this idea that that God had to say no to my request because he loves me. Mhmm. And so it says in the life of the believer, could it be likened to prayer? And I would say, no. No.
Speaker 3:Prayer is a request. Manifestation is like magic. So I'm I'm speaking this into existence. You know, it's like abracadabra. And I would say for the believer, that's not we we can't do that.
Speaker 3:We cannot manifest things. We can believe in God for things. We can hope for things. We can pray for things. We can ask.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. But I would say that manifesting, the very language is the opposite of humility. And I think what we need to do as Christians is we need to humbly ask God for things. We need to humbly go before the Lord because ultimately, you know, at the end of the day, he's gonna determine what we get and what we receive and
Speaker 2:Well, it seems like we also need to trust that he has best for us, and so when we you know, manifesting and saying, here's what I want to happen in my life, as opposed to the the posture of a believer being like, I actually want what you want from me, God, what you have for me, what you know is best for me. So here's what I'm thinking, I offer this in prayer, here's here's my heart's desire, but I'm submitting to whatever you have for me, trusting that it's best.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I would say there's two there's two problems here. So the one problem is manifesting. Right? So I'm I've declared it.
Speaker 3:I'm naming it. I'm claiming it. The other the other end of the spectrum is I'm doing nothing because it's all in God's hands. Both of those are problems. And so so so one says it's all God, there's nothing I can do.
Speaker 3:The other problem says it's all me and I just have to claim it. Both sides of that street are wrong. And and the middle is God, the Bible says, I know the plans I have for you, plans to give you a future and a hope, plans to profit profit you, plans for good, not for disaster. Right? So I don't need to manifest, I just need to trust in God's plans for my life.
Speaker 3:But here's the thing, the gospel is opposed to earning. You can't earn your salvation. It's not opposed to effort.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. That's good.
Speaker 3:So your grandpa used to say this. What he said something about your grandpa your your your mom's dad would say something about your feet. Oh, man. Well, I can't
Speaker 2:I know. I can't think
Speaker 3:of it
Speaker 2:either. It's totally right now.
Speaker 3:Basically, the idea was that, you know, we we ask God for something, but then we we start moving in that direction physically. You know? And so, I can't think of
Speaker 2:That's what I was gonna say is when I think of this, I think that sometimes people could say I manifested something like they made it happen, but and they really might have. Like, I put effort in, I put in, you know, intention in, like, hey, I want this thing, and so I'm gonna work towards it. Yeah. But that doesn't mean you manifested it. It meant you went after a goal.
Speaker 2:You went after a dream. Yeah. You did your part. You worked hard to do it. And I I do think that there's a lot of people out there that just want God to just provide without ever us having to, like, put in Yeah.
Speaker 2:Where we wanna go, who we wanna be, what we want to develop into
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Based on the gifts that he's given us.
Speaker 3:Well, I think and I also think that the doctrine of manifestation robs you of the spiritual journey of suffering. Yeah. And so Mhmm. Right? Because none of us wants to suffer, none of us wants difficulty.
Speaker 3:When you you and I were on a plane last week, I never asked the Lord for turbulence. I mean, I don't I don't want that. But I may need turbulence to get me from watching the movie I'm watching on the screen and pray and talk to God. I mean, I might need that. I mean, sometimes our lives have to be shaken up for God to get, you know, our attention.
Speaker 3:And so your last sentence, could it transfer power from him to us? Absolutely not. You know, the Holy Spirit back to the last question. So if we go to Acts chapter one six, the Holy Spirit will come upon us, and he will come with power. So we cannot manifest the power.
Speaker 3:The Holy Spirit manifests power because power is coming from him, and so what we gotta do as Christians is make ourselves available to the spirit's power because that's where we do drive our strength. And again, back to Mark Driscoll's book from the last question, the spirit filled Jesus, even Jesus relied on the spirit's power. And so we just need to be careful that we we don't get prideful, we don't become arrogant, that we never think, you know, our effort comes from us, but our abilities come from God. Mhmm. So we we just gotta remember that.
Speaker 3:And so
Speaker 2:And to remember, like, I think, you know, the Bible tells us all good things are from God. Yes. And if you believe in manifesting, you think good things come from you.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That that's the negative. But again, I think it's important to think positive. It's important to imagine yourself being successful. Like, when I when I get up to preach, would it be healthy for me to imagine myself bombing, like being terrible?
Speaker 3:No. So I I I envision myself standing up, talking, feeling relaxed, being myself, trusting in the gifts that God's given me. But I also practice. I've practiced thousands upon thousands upon thousands of times so that when I get on stage, I can perform to the best of my ability. But manifestation, right, is this idea that before and I would say even without practice, without the discipline of of struggling and and growing through lousy messages which I've preached that somehow I can just say this.
Speaker 3:Again, it's really Manifestation is really magic. Like I can just speak this and and it will come into existence. And you know, so I'm against that. But I'm also against always being negative and being down on yourself because our thoughts about ourselves play a larger part in who we are. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:You know, for example, like, you know you know, you know, we've had two girls, you know, and you, you know, if if if you're telling yourself I'm ugly, nobody loves me, you're going to believe that, and then it's actually gonna change how you carry that out. Mhmm. And that's why it's so important to say, I'm the daughter of a king. He made me the way I am. Yes.
Speaker 3:I'm beautiful in his eyes. Those things are true statements. And so I can carry myself like a daughter of the king or the son of a king because that's who I am. And so I do think it's important Mhmm. You know, to build us up because the devil loves Mhmm.
Speaker 3:To manifest negative energy, negative thoughts, sinful thoughts, you know, you're no good, you're you're terrible, and it's important as a Christian that we remember who we are in Christ. But we can't manifest that. God did. We are new creations in him. We're not new creations because we say it out loud or we think it out loud.
Speaker 3:It's because of him. So that's a great question, Tiffany. And again, for anybody out there who has used this language, I'm not here to judge you. I'm just here to caution you and say, hey, I think there's some better ways rather than manifesting stuff. I would just have some Bible verses.
Speaker 3:Write some verses out that are true because God said them, and you claim those for yourself. I'm God's daughter. I'm God's son, and these statements are true for me, and I'm trusting in that when I go to this interview, when I make this investment, you know, when I do this because God is for me, and so that's important.
Speaker 2:So again, that's a great question. Okay. Final question for this episode comes from, I believe it's pronounced Lizette from Riverside. She says this or they say this, when you pass away, are you in heaven looking down at your family, children, and loved ones and wanting to be with them? Do you lose the desire to be with your children?
Speaker 2:Does God allow you to have those desires in heaven?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Lizette You
Speaker 2:better be missing me in heaven.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. I'll be missing Tammy, for sure. Lizette, here here's the truth is we we just don't know. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:You know, the most clear passages of scripture about heaven are very very quick passages. Like the apostle Paul says, in the twinkling of an eye, we'll be we'll be caught up with him. Mhmm. Jesus says things like to the thief on the cross, today you will be with me in paradise. Probably the most extensive teaching on life after death is in first Thessalonians chapter four, which we've all made at the rapture passage, but it's really not at all about the rapture.
Speaker 3:It's about comforting people whose loved ones have been lost. And so that's what's so sad, you know, people think it's, you know, it's all about the rapture being caught up in the air to be with him, but Paul actually says, I'm writing these things so that you will not grieve as pagans do, so that you will be comforted in the midst of the lost of your friends. But even those passages don't clearly speak to how things will be in heaven. And here's why, Lizette, we've talked about this many times on the debrief, because we are not supposed to be in heaven. We await resurrection for the new earth.
Speaker 3:And so when we talk about when we use the language of heaven, the verses that most people would go to are not heaven, but they are a new earth. So Isaiah sees a new earth, and on that new earth, a child will put its hand in the the nest of a cobra and it will not bite. The lamb will lie down with the lion, and it will not eat it. Mhmm. This idea that there's going to be a new earth, and a lot of Christians have lost that theology because we've made Christianity into dying and going to heaven.
Speaker 3:Christianity is about resurrected bodies, a resurrected earth, a new life on a new earth where there is no sin, there is no death, there is no cancer. These things do not exist anymore because sin has been driven out. And God now lives on earth with us. So so you gotta flip it, Lizette. We think that Christianity is me going to heaven to be with Jesus forever.
Speaker 3:What the Bible says is that it actually is Jesus coming to earth to be with us forever. It's actually very very
Speaker 2:So hard
Speaker 3:to very very different. Yeah. So what what do I think about this? You know, we use the language of heaven, and it's it's a simplified way to go. But when we die, you know, we will be with Jesus wherever that is.
Speaker 3:So wherever that is, he says to the disciples, do not be afraid. Behold, I go to prepare a place for you. If it were not so, I would have told you. So that's John chapter 14. So he talks about in my father's house, there are many mansions.
Speaker 3:So what he's saying is there's a room in God's house for you, but but that's temporary. And so when we read Revelation, what happens is heaven is coming to earth. There's a new Jerusalem, and it descends from heaven and it lands on earth, and that is where people go to worship God. And so there's this temporary waiting place, and we don't know exactly what it is, and we don't know exactly what we know. We have to go to the book of Revelation for that, and it seems like the saints are praying, so the bowls of incense before the Lord.
Speaker 3:Some saints are saying how long before they get their resurrected bodies, so the Lord gives them white cloaks to cover them, and he says it's almost time. So we we don't have a a clear picture of of what that's gonna be like. You know? So are you in heaven looking down at your family? You know, there's no specific verse to answer this question.
Speaker 3:Here's what I think. I think in heaven, we will be very aware of the people that we love. Love is something that transcends the physical life to the spiritual life. So I think we will still be very, very aware of the people that we love. Will we be able to see them or not?
Speaker 3:The only passage of scripture I have is Luke 18, and it is the story of rich man and Lazarus. And again, the problem with this is it's a parable, and parables have one meaning. And so I don't think the meaning is, you know, will you see your loved ones? But it seems to indicate that the rich man is deeply concerned for his family and friends. He's worried about them.
Speaker 3:Now he's in hell. He's not in heaven. So he's in anguish. He's in torment. He begs for water from from Lazarus, the the the poor man who only had dogs to lick his sores when he's alive.
Speaker 3:It's a very graphic story. And Jesus indicates in that story that there's a great chasm separating the living from the dead, and you cannot go back and forth. It's one of the things that makes Jesus unique is that he could go back and forth because he's the Lord of all. We are not like Jesus in that way. So I I think we will be concerned for our family, we will pray for our family, you know, but I don't have a specific verse for that.
Speaker 3:Will you be wanting to be with them? Here's where it gets tricky. Heaven is about wanting to be with Jesus, and a lot of us forget that.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:So it's his house. And so if we still want to be with them, I think we will come to the to the understanding that our friends and family made choices that we wish they didn't make, but ultimately, those are their choices. Nobody's forced to live in God's house forever, and God will not allow anyone in his house without the blood of Jesus saving them. It's his house. He makes the rules.
Speaker 3:So do you lose the desire to be with your children?
Speaker 2:I wonder if that's if if the the better question and not Yeah. Might be not do we lose a desire, but I think we'll have a greater perspective. Yeah. So it wouldn't necessarily be about in my opinion, like, losing the desire, you would we're I just think we're gonna have we have such a broken perspective right now about things, and we'll have a different perspective.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We'll see things we don't see. We'll have an understanding, and we'll have, yeah, just a different perspective about it. Yeah. Because I I can imagine, you know, wonder I've wondered this myself. Am I gonna be longing to see you and longing to see the kids?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Will that be like? Or my my grandkids? Well, I hope so. But and so I understand the question so deeply.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But I think where I refer to is I think I'll have a whole different perspective, and so that won't be my question anymore.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Lizette, I think what Tammy's saying is wise. I can tell you this, I talk about this in the book Everyday a Miracle, but we had a good friend of ours commit suicide, and I was really torn up about whether or not he was in heaven, and I believe Jesus appeared to me in a vision and told me Stephen is in heaven. He is with he is with me.
Speaker 3:He is with us. He spoke in Trinitarian language. And I mean his first words, you know this word, do not be afraid. Mhmm. I mean, in the same way that that's what God says that, you know, constantly in the Bible.
Speaker 3:And and the reason God told me not to be afraid is because I was afraid. It was a very frightening. Frightening is the wrong word. It was a powerful experience where I I felt intimidated by it. So so I would say this, if God answered that prayer for me here on earth, I would imagine that somehow he's gonna minister to us in heaven and because he loves us, and he knows God knows what it means to love.
Speaker 3:Like, he he knows what that means. He knows what it means to be bound up with someone and to care for them. We have to remember the Lord Jesus's last words where he turns to John and he says, John, here is your mother. And what he's saying is take care of my mom. This this is the son of God that's dying for the sins of the world.
Speaker 3:And yet in that, Lizette, what is his concern? His concern is for his biological mom. So that tells me that God cares about his family, and I would think that he's going to allow us to care for our family. But I I I I think what Tammy said is right on. In some way, our perspective will be changed and we won't be hopeless.
Speaker 3:We won't despair in heaven because of the choices of our loved ones. And, you know, I mean, there are some things in this life I I I wish I didn't know, and I'm hoping that in heaven there are some things that we we don't have to know because, you know, once you experience some things, it's it's hard to unravel that. So this is a great question, Lizette. I wish I had a better answer for you than this. God is good.
Speaker 3:He loves you. In heaven, it's gonna be awesome. And so I I don't know how we unpack loved ones that I'm assuming maybe aren't there or we miss them. Mhmm. But, you know again Okay.
Speaker 3:The other thing is, Lizette, as we wrap up, I think our perspective of time will be totally different. You know? And we all experience this when we go to sleep. Right? So we go to sleep.
Speaker 3:Tammy and I are at that age where this is what we talk about every day, how was your sleep? It's super exciting. But, you know Oh, that's good. When you have great sleep, what does that mean? You laid down, and you woke up, and you were in a timeless state for eight hours.
Speaker 3:And so I think heaven will be similar to that because I think if we were aware of time there like we are here, it would be it would be painful. So but I don't know that.
Speaker 2:Alright. Well, thank you, Matt. It's so good. Thank you guys for listening. If any of these questions today might help someone you know and you love or or remind you of conversations, we would love it if you could share this episode with them.
Speaker 2:Another way to support is if you appreciate this podcast and see its meaning, you can go to sandwichchurch.com backslash support. Do that there and subscribe to us wherever. And then most importantly, the purpose of this podcast is for Matt to get a chance to answer your real questions. And so you can submit your questions at sandalschurch.com back
Speaker 3:back Backslash.
Speaker 2:Slash the debrief.
Speaker 3:Yes. There we go.
Speaker 2:Okay. Until next time. We'll see you guys later.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening. We hope this conversation helped you grow in your faith. If you've enjoyed today's episode, make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe on YouTube so you don't miss what's next. You can also stay connected by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok for behind the scenes clips, highlights, and more ways to engage with the community. We'll see you next time right here on the Debrief Podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown.