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The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
cal_2_04-25-2024_183704: Welcome to
the Grazing Grass podcast episode 109.
You're listening to the Grazing Grass
Podcast, sharing information and stories
of grass based livestock production
utilizing regenerative practices.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
Cal: You're growing more than grass.
You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle
thrive in their environment.
You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity
and reducing your operating costs.
You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.
The grazing management
decisions you make today.
impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.
That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials
of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow
techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.
In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.
Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,
but a legacy that lasts.
Learn more on their website at noble.
org slash grazing.
It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.
cal_2_04-25-2024_183704: On this
week's podcast, we're going to
talk about the Lasater Philosophy
of Cattle Raising, part two.
Episode 105 was part one of the Lasater
Philosophy of Cattle Raising, and that was
inspired by the Herd Quitter podcast, I
believe episode 163 with Allen Williams.
And he was discussing his cattle
raising philosophy and how
it's changed over the decades.
The Lasater Philosophy of Cattle Raising
is a book wrote by Laurence Lasater about
his dad's philosophy, Tom Lasater, who
created the Beefmaster cattle breed.
If you're interested in the book,
we'll put a link in our show notes.
Do not buy it from Amazon.
There are some used books on
Amazon, but they're very expensive.
You can order it directly from Amazon.
Laster Ranch, that's not the name of
the ranch, but I'll put the link in
there so you can get it and order it.
It's a very easy read, quick
read, just a evening read.
I really enjoy it and I
re read it every so often.
One thing with his breeding philosophy He
has five pillars or commandments, and in
episode 105 we discuss the first pillar,
which is to select for the six essentials.
And the six essentials are disposition,
fertility, weight, conformation,
milk production, and hardiness.
We didn't talk about fertility very
much, because to me, fertility really
follows under that second pillar of
reproductive efficiency, which is mainly
what we're going to talk about today.
So in that, let's, let's
talk about the second pillar.
Second pillar is reproductive efficiency
and Tom Lasater believes you should
keep 80 percent or more of your heifers.
In fact, he goes so far as to
say that the big error most
managers do is they sell heifers.
They don't keep them all.
He said, you should be
breeding them young.
and culling extensively on your cow herd.
You're breeding them young, you're
culling extensively on your cow herd.
Those heifers should be the
best genetics in your herd.
In fact, he goes on to say, If
your heifers are not better than
their moms, you need a better bull.
I think that's really true and
I'm not sure that's something
we often pay attention to.
I'm gonna have to say for us, we
are not doing a good job with that.
With my herd I'm keeping all my
heifers except I just sold 50 percent
of them to help pay some bills.
But I need to keep them all to,
to advance the genetics of them.
And going back to what Allen Williams
said in episode 163 of the HerdQuitter
podcast, he keeps all his heifers.
and breeds them.
And the ones that don't breed, they
go into a grass fed beef program.
And then your, your second point
that you lose a lot out is that first
calf heifer, does she breed back?
She breeds back, great.
She stays in the herd.
She doesn't, she moves into the
grass fed beef market because she's
still fairly young at that time.
Now
Lasater says you should breed them
for a short breeding window, 65 days.
at 13 months of age.
Yes, you heard me correctly
at 13 months of age.
He says at 13 months of age put bulls
in there with him That's the same age So
you're talking a 13 month old bull and
he puts them in at a ratio of one bull
to ten heifers And keeps them in there
for 65 days then pulls the bulls out.
He preg checks And the ones
that are open get sold.
Initially, I'm like 13 months of age.
That's producing a calf
at 22 months of age.
I'm calving in May, so those calves
are going to be 24 months of age
in May when they'd be calving.
So if I'm calving at 22 months of age,
I'm calving these heifers out in March.
So my first thoughts are,
I'm not a fan of that.
But then, I take a step back
and I think, That might work.
We had, probably 10, 12 years
ago, we had a set of heifers with
a young bull and they bred and
calved at 21 and 22 months of age.
We didn't have any problem with those.
Granted, calving them young,
you could have some problems,
so you got to be aware of that.
But, they, that worked out.
And calving ahead of the herd, and we
try and do this with dad's herd, we
always put the bulls out to the heifers.
a couple weeks in advance or a full
cycle 21 days in advance of the cow herd.
And the goal in doing that is so
those heifers get extra days to
breed back as a first calf heifer.
So if you, if you put a, put a bull
with them at 13 months of age and
they kept it 22 months of age, they're
getting instead of 60 days or 90
days before that bull's put in there,
they're getting 120 days, 150 days.
Might be some benefit to that.
So like I said, my, my knee jerk
reaction was, I don't like that.
But as I think about it, I'm
not sure I don't like it.
In fact, I would love to, to
have a discussion about that.
So reply to, to wherever
you're listening to this.
You can reply, make a thread
in the grazing grass community.
What do you think about breeding
your heifers at 13 months?
versus 15 months.
Lassner goes on to say that if you're
having too many heifers, you know, you're,
you're breeding all those heifers and
then you're culling your cows extensively,
so you're improving your cow herd.
He says if you're getting too many
heifers bred, then go back to a
21 day breeding season for them.
I'll be honest, that scares me
to do Maybe as you work that
way that would be possible.
I'd be interested to know if anyone
out there's doing a 21 day breeding
season, heifers, cows, anything.
Now I can do that with my sheep.
It's amazing with the sheep
and goats, how quickly how many
they breed and how quickly.
My lambing season, usually after
three weeks, it's basically over.
So interesting.
And then I mentioned this a while ago,
but if their heifers are not better
than their mom's use a different bull.
If the heifers are not better than
their moms, use a different bull.
And one thing, when we talk about bulls, a
few generations of bulls has a tremendous
power to completely remake your herd.
Lasater says, any bull battery
will remake a cow herd in its own
likeness in three generations.
And I've heard that numerous times.
Of course, that's not three breeding
seasons, it's three generations.
I like to throw out the converse of that.
If you have cows you like, why not remake
your herd in the image of your cows?
How would you do that?
By keeping your own bulls
out of your best cows.
And let's capitalize or double
down on those cow genetics.
Of course if you're not there yet,
if your cows are not there yet, you
need to bring in those, those bulls
with the genetics to get your cow
herd where they need to be first.
But if your cow herd's there, I say
double down on your cow herd and
start using bulls from your best cows.
Now that's probably another discussion
deal, someone could, we could have
in the grazing grass community.
Now one thing he said I thought was very
interesting, popularity hurts a breed.
And you know, when I first hear
that, it's interesting, but
then I'm like, oh yeah it does.
Because he goes on to say,
the man hasn't been born who
will cull high priced cattle.
And that goes with any breeding stock.
You pay a large amount of money, It's
easier to forgive them not doing something
because you've got a lot of money in them.
However, they need to be culled as hard
or harder or harder than commercial cattle
because you're keeping seed stock out of
them or potentially keeping seed stock
to to breed for the next generation.
I had a cow kev last week that
I ended up pulling the kev on.
She keved a little bit earlier
than anticipated, but I saw she
was off by herself one evening.
Then when I went back
she was with the herd.
And then the next day she was off by
herself and I gave them a new paddock
and she immediately went over and grazed.
So I got her in later, and
the calf was coming backwards.
And if the calf's coming backwards,
it's not good, but it's not bad as
long as the feet present themselves.
In this particular case, the feet
were folded up under the calf,
so the tail presented itself.
So this is not a good situation.
I actually called my daughter, who's a vet
tech, and asked them what they were doing.
I said, I may need you all to come out.
I will let you know.
So I had her on standby.
I was able to get the calf out, had
to push the calf back in, get those
back legs up so we could pull it out.
Once I did that, I was able to pull it out
without a problem, but I lost the calf.
So that means on her line on my
records, I don't have a calf to sell.
So who pays her bill?
The cow does.
And I like this cow.
In fact, I've got a yearling heifer
out of her that I really like.
So, I was really disappointed.
And the calf was a heifer.
So, I was really disappointed by that.
But that's the way it works.
And, she's not going to
produce a calf this year.
So, she's going to go to town.
And just on that, on the record keeping
portion, Lasater has an interesting
philosophy on record keeping that
I know some people will agree with.
He says for the records we'd
like to keep, we don't need to.
He says brand those cows with the
year they were born, and then you
breed them as heifers, you preg
check them, cull any that's open.
Then as a cow, you preg check them.
If they're open, they get
sold when you wean their calf.
So every cow in the herd has
produced a calf every year.
So he's like, you don't need to know
this cow had this calf or anything.
You just need to know
the year they're born.
That makes it easier to cull
animals because you're not
seeing them as individuals, but
you're looking at them as a herd.
I, for one, I like to keep a few more
records of that, so I'm not quite there
on that, but that is an interesting
philosophy, and really simple, so
you can do it and keep them going.
Of course, if you're doing registered
animals, that's a little bit different.
You gotta be able to trace
them to the correct animal.
Now one thing moving on from the second
pillar, which the second pillar about
fertility and reproductive efficiency,
in my opinion, is the most important.
Now these, these are all
important, there's great things,
I love the six essentials.
The first thing, no matter what species
you're doing, if you're not getting
offspring on the ground and they're
not weaning them, you're not bringing
any money in if you're running a cow
calf or a lambing kidding program.
So to me, you gotta start at
reproductive efficiency and make sure
things are raising calves every year.
lambs every year, kids every year,
whenever you, you plan on that.
If they're not, you need to get rid
of them and get an animal that will.
And then you can start worrying
about the other things.
I think the argument could be made
that some of these other things, if
you worry about them in the beginning,
they'll help you get there faster.
But don't overlook that reproductive
efficiency, in my opinion.
The third pillar is performance
test in a constant environment.
And really what he's saying there,
performance tests your animals.
in a, in the environment they're expected
to perform under, or the, the environment
they're expected to produce in.
So when we think about bulls, we
want them forage produced, we forage
developed, because they're going to
be in forage conditions, at least for
me they are, maybe your operation is a
little bit different, but look at your
operation and however they're going to
be managed in your operation, that's
the way they should be developed.
And one thing, if you, If you
are developing them on feed or
whatever Lasater has a couple
things to say about that.
Fat covers a multitude of sins.
So You know, you get that animal fat, you
don't know what's hiding under that fat.
On the other hand, fat covers
a multitude of virtues.
So, it may be a pretty
good animal under there.
But feeding them hides a lot of that.
So make sure you, you get them
in the condition they're going
to perform under for you.
One thing I love about goats in
Oklahoma, there's a forage buck test.
And mainly Kiko, some
Spanish end up on it.
And those bucks are put out on grass.
Their rate of gain is, is measured.
Their fetal egg counts are measured.
And you're able to see which bucks
perform the best in that environment.
But that's the environment
you're going to keep them in.
As opposed to putting them in a pen
and giving them feed and seeing what
their average daily gain is on feed.
Along those lines Laster goes on to
state something that's pretty obvious,
but sometimes we forget, I've forgotten
this in the past, you take a, a animal
that's been fed and you put them onto
a forage only diet that animal may fall
apart, because they're not produced in
that environment, because we're going down
in nutrition instead of, instead of up.
On the other hand, if we take a
forage developed animal and we decide
we want to feed them, They will
perform better in that environment
because we're going up on nutrition.
Not too much on the third pillar, but
just that you want them developed under
a system like you're going to use them.
And the fourth pillar is eating.
Employ direct selection.
And the main thing we're talking
about here, select for the trait
sought so, what traits do you want?
And select for them.
And Lasater goes on to say, not
for a combination that you hope
will produce the desired results.
I was listening to a podcast the other
day about livestock, actually it was
about poultry, and they were talking
about selecting and each generation
what you're selecting for, and
they were making the point that you
really need to really choose a single
trait or Just a couple of traits.
If you go trying to fix the whole animal,
you're liable to lose some progress there.
So the fewer traits you're selecting
for, the faster your gain is.
Fastest progress in that genetic
development in that trait will
be by single trait selection.
Most of the time we want to do a
little bit more than single trait.
But if we get carried away and
calculate some kind of index or
combination that we think will work,
We're selecting for the wrong thing.
I like to think we're selecting
for a cow that will produce a calf.
I'm not trying to guess at
what traits causes a cow to
produce a calf and wean a calf.
I'm selecting based upon her weaning
of calf and a certain body weight or
percentage of her body weight because
we want the most pounds per cow.
And I say that most pounds per cow.
We want to optimize that because we
could get the most pounds per cow
by having, by having bigger cows.
But if we get the most pounds per
pound of, of cow, then, then we
can be a little bit more efficient.
I have to be careful with that
or I'll be moving towards that
combination of traits again.
With the fifth pillar, it's utilize
the adaptive powers of nature.
And what Lasater means by that, he just
asks those cows to do the impossible.
And he says, now wait, he doesn't ask
them to go crazy on the impossible.
But he just asks them to do more.
And I think the Herd Quitter
Podcast with Allen Williams
discusses this a little bit.
Let's ask cows to produce
without supplements.
I think that was the discussion
we had grazing grass community
about what are supplements?
What does minerals count as supplements?
But if you're asking your cows to produce
under those circumstances, if you're
asking cows to produce without deworming
them, the cows that produce are the
genetics you want as opposed to propping
up those other genetics so they succeed.
Now there's a fine line there.
You go cold turkey, and I say cold turkey,
I just recorded an episode with August
Horstman of Horstman Cattle Company, a
catch up episode that'll be available in
a few weeks here on The Grazing Grass.
And I know we talked about his
regenerative journey on episode 15 of
this podcast, and we'd like to say he
went cold turkey for regenerative ag.
He just, he found about it
and he went whole hog into it.
I think when you, when you start
thinking about using these powers
of nature, I think that's a great
way, but there is a fine line there.
Because if you are not sustainable
in making money, Your farm's
not going to be here long enough
for it to make a difference.
So, if you, if you make all these
drastic changes and say, Hey, my cows
are going to have to produce without
any supplements, without anything.
If you end up with half your herd
open because they didn't breed
back or they didn't wean a calf or
something, is that sustainable for you?
Only you can answer that question
because I don't know your farm structure.
I would assume it's not
sustainable unless you have some
off the farm income coming in.
But that's a decision you have to make.
But if you have to supplement, if
you have to do something to help
prop them up so that you get decent
percentages, know it's a temporary fix.
And Allen Williams talks about this.
If you're supplementing or providing
something extra for them, the goal is
to do it temporarily until you get your
animals where they can do it on their own.
So that's going to take a little
while, but you do have to look at your
farm and make sure it's sustainable.
And one thing that Lasater talks about,
It's talking about having that first calf
at 24 months and every year afterwards.
He says those cows will do it
I don't remember if I shared
this story on episode 105.
I'll go ahead and share it today.
It's been a couple weeks
so I don't remember.
I remember as a kid and I
don't recall this happening
but dad has shared it with me.
since then, but he was running about 20
cows and he had a fair number of them.
Or when he went to wean calves, he
only had so many calves to wean.
So he had a fair number
that didn't wean calves.
And he had read this book and
thought, I, I'm doing that.
So he sold those cows
that didn't wean a calf.
His next year he went from, and I'm
going to make up numbers here because
I don't know the numbers, but he
went from like a 50 percent calf
crop to a hundred percent calf crop.
Granted, a smaller number of animals,
but his expenses were lower because
he didn't have any freeloaders.
So that goes back to reproductive
efficiency and making sure that cow gives
it 24 months and every year afterwards.
And if we're asking cows to do
that and they're not able to do
it, did we mess up somewhere?
Lasater also goes on to
say, Quit worrying about.
Unimportant traits.
And for laster, coat color.
The color of cattle was not important.
Now I think some people could make
an argument that color is important
in certain markets depending on
how you're marketing your animals.
But we shouldn't be worrying about that.
Now I argue the point on that.
I get a certain intrinsic value from
seeing my herd look very uniform.
and I have preferred colors
that I want to see out there.
However, I don't want to select for
those colors and hurt other selection.
So if I have two animals of equal
quality, I pick the color I want.
Now if I, if my best animals are
not the color I want, then I'm just
going to go with that and maybe I'll
get to the color I want later on.
Or the other thing is, if you're going
out and buying good quality animals,
buy good quality animals in the colors.
you like, but just be, be sure
you're buying quality animals,
not because of the color.
And I do think that
intrinsic value is important.
It doesn't pay too many
bills, but I do enjoy it.
So I have to decide what
value it provides to me.
So that's the five pillars that
Lasater has in place for his
philosophy of cattle raising.
To select for the six essentials.
That's to focus on
reproductive efficiency.
Performance test in a
constant environment.
Employ direct selection.
And utilize the adaptive powers of nature.
Now, the book I'd mentioned,
it's a pretty easy read.
It goes on to cover a few other
things like feedlots, suspension
fences and suspension gates.
And it talks about utilizing
a dead man's corner.
And as far as he's concerned, that's
the best corner or brace you can put in.
Also talks about tax and land ownership,
and then the origins of the beefmaster
breed and how that got started.
And then it finishes up with a
two page summary of the Lasater
Beefmaster Standard of Excellence,
which is very much his philosophy.
I think that, that two page
summary is really good.
But, like I said, I
really enjoy this book.
I think it ought to be on your bookshelf.
And it doesn't matter if you're
breeding cattle, goats, sheep, pigs.
I think it works for whatever
species you're using.
It gives you something to think
about and a road map to go from.
I know when we start talking about
drought plans and we get into that
drought, if I have a plan that's on
paper, it's easier for me to follow
and not make emotional decisions.
I think the same goes
for your breeding plan.
Having it on paper makes
it much easier to follow.
And not make emotional decisions.
Like that cow.
I'm, I'm a little disappointed
I lost that calf the other day.
That cow has to go to town now.
It's part of my breeding philosophy.
Because I want cows that are productive.
Calve every year and raise a calf.
Because, or in spite of me.
So I hope you've enjoyed this episode.
Next week we are going to talk about
cattle colors, the genetics behind that.
And that's really, you know, I
mentioned it here just a while ago,
but then there was a post earlier
on my Facebook about the color of an
animal, and that really fascinates me.
So I, right now, that's what
I've got to leave scheduled.
So we'll talk about that next week.
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