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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
00:00
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Restorative Man podcast. My name is Jesse French and excited again to be joined by my good friend, Cody Buriff. Cody, how are you today? Hey, how's it going? It's good to be here. Yeah, man. Good to be with you. Good be with you. And I am excited because today we're actually going to dive in a little deeper with you, Jesse, into one of your hobbies and what that means for your life. And we were talking and trying to figure out how to tee this up well. So I'll start with a story.
00:30
about that. want to set a little context, a little background. Like, first of all, I'm not like a master fisherman in any way, shape or form, but I did grow up fishing. Now my version of fishing growing up was like the lakes of the Midwest where you're bobber fishing with night crawlers for bluegill and bass and crappie and whatever. Um, you know, and the, uh, King fish to go after was the largemouth bass.
00:57
Yes. Yes. the one that stole all your bait was the tiny little bluegill. although yes, we can have another episode on I think the beauty of bluegill and the invitation there because I have a soft spot for them. So another episode we should return to be fair. have a soft spot for bluegill. I love bluegill. I haven't eaten bluegill since I was probably 12. Okay, but they are one of the best tasting fish. have never eaten them. I have just so I'm missing out.
01:25
Yeah, you gotta come out here where there are more bluegill and we'll make you some fish nuggets or something. Yes, please. Very small. Yes. But the story I actually was going to tell, my very first Grover treat in Colorado, you know, I was track one and didn't know what I was getting into. Didn't know hardly anybody. And we had a little bit of free time at one point during the weekend. And so
01:53
Me and a couple other guys actually went fishing. Now, I had never really been fly fishing before. OK, I had sort of learned how to cast a fly rod once in a field, but I didn't know what I was doing at all. And one of our mutual friends, Jacob Benson, was super kind. Yeah, super good dude. And he had enough gear and offered to let me use some of his gear and kind of show me the ropes a little bit at some. I don't know. What was the what was the river near there? I think it's the Colorado River.
02:23
Yeah. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Oh, I thought it was some smaller river. Anyway, whatever. think it was Colorado. Anyways, continue. It doesn't matter. doesn't matter. Anyway, so I go out my very first cast fishing, fly fishing. Never done this before in my life. Caught. I'm going to just try to be like super honest and say I think it was a solid like 14 inches. Come on. Come on. trout. So
02:52
I love this. And at this point, people who are listening are either like, swearing at you right now, or they're like, this is hospital man Cody. So it's like on either one of the polls, it's like, pure anger, pure joy for you. There you go. Okay, so like, that's a big deal. Do you remember like, take us into the moment. So you you get this fishhook, like, was it pure pandemonium? Did Jacob kind of like coach you through that? Were you like, what? Yeah, yeah, he more on that.
03:22
He was standing there kind of behind me to my left a bit and you know, I was trying to make sure I didn't screw things up too bad. I think I'm gonna break his gear and he hadn't, you know, bothered to try to talk me through like, how do you like Noah fishes hook or like, what do you do once you feel it kind of grab or anything like that? That was all instinct and I will claim that. Yeah, you should pride. But I guess like, you know, with Bobber fishing, like you just lift your rod up.
03:50
and you can hold the fish there and generally speaking isn't going to jump off. But apparently with fly fishing, you're supposed to like drag it up to the lake. Yeah, there's like some technique a little bit to like not snapping the tip it and yeah, yeah, it's like way more touchy. I feel like yeah. So yes, he was there like telling me, oh, this is what you need to do right now. Like don't lose it. He helped me land it so then that's so awesome Cody like.
04:20
And I would just say that is the even before we started recording. I'm like, that's the total exception. That does not happen. Like it's so, it's so, so fun for me to hear that that first cast first time going like this beautiful trout. Um, so that's, that's so good. Did that like start the addiction process where you no pun intended to like hook you and it was like, oh, this is fun. Cause that was a couple of years ago. Um, yeah. How has it unfolded since then?
04:49
Uh, not a whole lot. I did come home and buy a fly rod and a couple of flies. I think I consulted with you to try to figure out what the heck I should even get. But yeah, I think I even bought them like used on marketplace or something. But yeah, I got a fly rod. used it. I've used it twice, maybe three times since then. Around here, like we just have a lot of trees. so fly fishing is tricky.
05:17
You can do it, but it's not easy where you're at. Like not as many trees. can. There's there's some more depending on where you go, right? There's yeah, some more options that was fair. So we're going to dive a little bit into fly fishing, but we're not going to spend the whole time on the intricacies of fly fishing because most of you don't care. There'd be like two guys maybe who would listen and you can out or tell us all the things that we're saying wrong, which is probably.
05:48
Exactly. No, we're gonna we're gonna use that as a little bit of an on-ramp into Jesse's life a little bit. So, but for those of us who are total noobs have no idea like what fly fishing is you've already started using some lingo like tap its tip it whatever I see right? I don't know. Can you just like give us like the quick beginners version overview of what fly fishing is? Sure.
06:16
And even now I'm like, I'm a little nervous of I'll say some things and I'm sure some of it will be incorrect. So hopefully we're like at 70 % accuracy is the close enough. So yeah. So, you know, you reference like spin fishing or Bobber fishing, right? Or you cast your bait out and you know, certain lures you'll reel back, right? But you know, like, cover fishing kind of just cast and wait. Fly fishing is very different in the sense that you are. Casting your rod back and forth called false casting where you have
06:45
You fly on your line, which we'll talk about in a second, but you're casting it above the water. Think red pit in or runs through it. I'm getting the line to the point where then you place it on the water. And if you're fishing on a river, we'll then allow that fly to drift down or alongside the, or in the current. And so the casting is very different, right? It's more active in the sense that you're adjusting your line. You're trying to place it on a specific place in the river. And then on river fishing, you will let your fly float.
07:14
for a certain amount of time and then you'll recast. And so the float, the drift will be, you know, five or 10 seconds, maybe longer, and then you recast. So just even the activity, right? The involvement is different than spin fishing where you just cast and wait. And so it's much more involved in that process. There's different types of flies that you can use, but ultimately, right, the fly is imitating generally a bug. And so that fly can either float on the surface of the water,
07:43
know, flies that are underneath the water called nymphs. And so you are trying to imitate a bug as in a lifelike way to have that your fly float on or beneath the water at sort of the same speed that a naturally a bug would to hopefully entice a fish to be able to go and take that. Your fly rod, it's most of them are graphite now. Sometimes they're fiberglass way, way back when they made really cool bamboo ones that were like would flex.
08:11
tremendously. And so there's more because you are loading your rod and manipulating your line to place it in a certain spot. The word I would use to describe your fly rod is it's dynamic, right? There's much more dynamic and responsiveness different than a spin casting rod where you kind of just fling it out and then let the weight of your bait kind of take it from there. So when you say dynamic, I think what comes into my mind is like it's responsive in a way that it like is kind of an extension of your arm. Yeah, that's a great way to put it.
08:41
And so the timing is so much of fly fishing. It's, it's not a game of force, which is hard for speaking with a broad brush, like lots of men, when they start think like, if I put more force into this, I will make my fly go further. And that's not the case. And so it's more of an adjustment of the timing of when you stop and when you move your arm. And so timing really adjusts and allows you to adjust your flight. And so that's why lots of.
09:07
women when they start fly fishing as adults will pick it up way faster than men because they're they're not under the like, you know, more I bench press this much. I'm really strong. I should get my fly to be able to go 60 yards. There's none of that. And they're like, I can more able to engage the timing of that. so I mean, this is whatever geeky nerdy like what happens when you
09:28
try to force it when you like throw more energy into it than is needed. Yeah. If you apply force into your line at the wrong time, which just creates more energy in the wrong spot. And so it really just jumbles your line in the air. And so when you pause correctly, you're allowing the energy to transfer from your arm through the rod to the line to the fly, right? And you're allowing that transfer to happen smoothly and correctly when you apply more force at the wrong time, it just like.
09:56
disrupts that whole extension of that process and you kind of blows things up. feel like there's probably like some kind of message, uh, analogy in there. There totally has to be one. there's friends of restoration projects who are way more math smarter than me. And even I've heard like the math equation or description of fly fishing is like one of the most complex things to represent mathematically because of like the complexity. So all that to say, that's a nerdy way of saying.
10:25
Part of what drew me into that was how dynamic and how participatory it was. Like I grew up similar to you would go and bait fish for bass and bluegill. And as a young boy was kind like, I was sitting on a dock waiting for something to happen. Right. And most of the time it didn't. And so, so when I started fly fishing, I was like, wow, there's so much more involved. Like I'm casting consistently. I'm trying to read the river to figure out where to cast. And it just felt so much more.
10:54
involved in a good way than just kind of the sit and wait. Typical way of fishing that I've been exposed to. Less boring. Less boring. Yeah. Yes. More fun. Now. Yeah. So that's a little, that's a brief little kind of snapshot to some of that. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Nice. feel like the other thing I'd throw out that feels different to me is like both the releasing of line and the reeling in of line is like,
11:23
just different. Like you pull the line out by hand when you're like, Yeah. Great point. Great point. You really strange. Yes. Most of the time, at least in Colorado, like you will reel line in sometimes, but really even when you catch a fish, like you're mostly stripping your line in by hand, right? Very different than bait fishing where you're reeling. Right. And so, right. Or you're like pulling more line out by hand to get more line so you can be able to cast. And so it is sort of this dance between the arm that's casting and your other hand that's
11:52
kind of managing your line through the reel. So, Interesting. Yeah. All right. Do you remember the first time you went? Yeah. So I was in high school and our family kind of annual family vacation was always up to this ranch in Montana. And most of the people that went there to this guest ranch would go because of the fly fishing. Like it was really, really good. They filmed part of a river runs through it, like on the ranch, this beautiful place, but most of the people would go to fly fish.
12:21
Our family would go, my brother and I loved to ride horses. And so that was the draw. So I would see these people come like year after year after year to the ranch, these like, you know, full on addicted fly fishermen. And I'm kind of just like, man, I wonder what the deal is. Like they love this. Also part of the context was my mom's dad was an avid avid fly fisherman and they grew up on a river, not far from here in Fort Collins and was just this really, really skilled fly fisherman. He died when I was in first grade.
12:50
But so there's always sort of this like fly fishing. He was a fly fisherman, sort of the family context of that. So one summer in Montana, I just thought like, I'd love to try it. It looks intriguing enough to try to try. And so I asked one of the guys who worked at the ranch, wait, would you take me out? And he was this college kid and was super generous and said, And so we went out and he just did a really great job. I think like the best teachers do in terms of
13:20
giving you enough instruction to kind of get you going, but not micromanaging and really kind of like letting the feeling out process happen and the trial and error. So I went with him and again, that dynamic process of casting just felt so new and so awesome. Like my casting was a hot mess, right? The line was going all sorts of places and yet that ability to be more involved, to try to read the river, to try to have the Rodbean extensions on my arm, all of that was like, wow, this feels really new and
13:50
I really, really enjoyed it. And so I didn't catch anything. I wasn't like Cody Buriff who got the sweet trout on cast number one, but there was enough then to say like, Hey, I want to do this more. And so went home, bought my own gear. My uncle is a fly fisherman. He kind of got me going a little bit. And then just went through some years of high school of just figuring it out. Right. And lots of trips coming home, totally like caught nothing. But again, so that was sort of the intro there.
14:20
Hmm. Well, all right. So you've mentioned a couple of different family members. Your uncle, your grandpa, who I'm assuming never got to take you fly fishing. Correct. Yeah. has, you know, relationship with uncle or even just the legacy from your grandfather impacted you in that hobby? Yeah, man. That's a great question. So specifically with my uncle, he was the one who took me and my brother bait fishing for bluegill. He just loves to fish. And so there's
14:48
Even when I was younger, he was the one who would do that. And then when I started to fly fish, we went and just have appreciated like his willingness to show and to teach. And so that was present kind of when I was in high school and so grateful for that. think what I would say to that though, and I love that you talked about your experience with Jacob is for me, it feels like I have a family of men who fly fish that I'm not related to. So my uncle taught me how and.
15:17
and grateful for that. But I now have other men who I have fly fished alongside who I have learned from, who I have taught that feels like they're my family. And there's a sharing of that and an invitation to that that Cody man, like I could, I'll maybe share one story, but that place of invitation into fly fishing from other men, from me inviting other other men into that has held some of the like most
15:47
meaningful, significant moments, I think, in my life. And it feels like just this ripe, ripe space that God has shown up in some incredibly generous ways and this way of, I would say of like being fathered. Like you talk about Jacob saying, hey, come and join, right? Like, I've got the stuff, come be part of that. I think that invitation into that space where we learn, where other men can say, hey, come be part of this, holds more weight than just the hobby to partake in. Does that make sense?
16:17
Yeah, totally. All right, so yeah, I am curious. I was going to ask you. mean, it sounds like some of the most impactful experiences you've had weren't necessarily around like the fish you caught, although, you know, often that's fun memories. Yeah. But yeah, how has it been impactful for you? Yeah. So the very first Grove retreat that I went to, it wasn't even called Grove, but it was a restoration project retreat. I was there. It was a very small group of guys and
16:46
Like you, we had some free time in the afternoon and me and my good, friend, Justin Cohen was there and we brought our fly rods up there because it was summer and we love to fish. so without even overthinking, we were just like, Hey, we're going to go fish on the river. If any of you guys would like to come and join us, we'd love for you to come along. And so I think three guys did. And so just spent this afternoon teaching them being on the river.
17:14
And I was able to go with a good friend of mine and just how as it worked out, he was fishing next to me and he had never gone before. And so we were fishing and, so we get to a part of the river and he's enjoying it. We're just enjoying our time together. And he catches this great little like 10 inch brown trout and I freak out, right? Like just with excitement. I'm just so, so pumped for him. And a couple of casts later, he catches another one. So I was just like, so, so pumped for him. And.
17:44
just was so grateful. So later that night, and he was the only one who caught fish all day. Later that night, we eat dinner and we're all just sitting around the living room talking around what people did that day. And my friend starts to talk and he says, this was a big deal for me to go fly fishing. My dad was an avid avid fly fisherman who loved it. And I watched him him go throughout my childhood. And he never invited me into it. Fast forward.
18:14
to my career and some of the men that I, my colleagues, some of my best friends who I work with avid avid fly fishermen who never invited me into that. he said, so to be able to be invited into that today and then to catch fish, like just felt like this tremendous gift. And so that I say that not because me and Justin were like these pro guides, but because of like the deft hand of God of
18:42
like orchestrating this afternoon of goodness and gift and healing for my friend. And like those types of things, I will like give me that moment 10 times out of 10 versus the like 30 inch trophy trout story. Right. Um, and it just feels like as I've done it more and more, there are instances, there are stories like that that are not uncommon, that it actually holds this invitation for healing and goodness that has just shown up time after time. Okay. So I want to ask you a little bit more about that story.
19:12
if I can. It sounds like it was hugely impactful for your friend. And it was significant for you. Can you say a little few more words around what that was for you? That was probably the first light bulb moment for realizing like, we use the phrase a lot, what does it mean to understand your story and how you have been shaped? And the fact that our story is running throughout our lives.
19:38
And when he told that and said, story has been one of desire for fly fishing yet not being invited. It was this like, Oh my goodness. This reality of how we have been shaped in our life is so bedrock. It is not just my friend saying like, that was a bummer that my dad never took me or my, you know, my friends never took me. It was far deeper than that. And so that was this, for me at that point was this like epiphany moment of, our stories are.
20:06
profoundly impactful in terms of how we understand ourselves. And it is far deeper than just past events, but it is, it has, it speaks to our understanding of who we are. And so that, for me, that was a huge deal, right? To see that in real time in this really vivid example. But it also felt important because I got to participate in that. And we use that word a lot, but I got to invite him into that, to teach him some things.
20:35
But that story so clearly like, yes, I participated in that and the goodness of God was orchestrating those events in terms of how that would happen. Right. And so it felt like a perfect example of the Lord saying like, come join me. And I didn't know that at the time, but like offer your passion, offer your invitation and goodness is in store. And so it was so clear that was not, that was not something that I engineered, right. It's not something that we, I planned at the beginning of the day, like, Oh, this is going to be the so
21:03
this amazing thing and it's going to be this epiphany moment was not that. And yet it was incredibly important. Yeah, that seems like a big, I don't know, mind shift, I guess, around what God does in our stories with other men, even in our hobbies. And the invitation that we offer to men and maybe even the invitations that we accept to join us. sure.
21:32
Do you remember when Jacob, like that interaction, even before you guys got to the river, like around fly fishing, like, do you remember kind of how that played out? Was that you saying, Hey man, I'd love to go like even that piece. What did, what did that look like? Yeah, I think it was similar to kind of how you, guys had said, I think, you know, he, or maybe he and another guy had mentioned, Hey, got some fly fishing gear. We'd love to invite anybody who wants to come and, having grown up fishing, but never been fly fishing. I was curious and.
22:00
I was like, well, this is my chance. If I'm ever going to do it, this is the time. And so yeah, it was just an open-handed, generous invitation. remember what that communicated like to you, Yeah, I think oftentimes when I hear men talk about their hobbies or things that they do for fun, it feels like it's exclusive. Yes.
22:31
and it's not something like, you know, to be invited to. Or if there's like a broad invitation of like, yeah, anybody wants to come, like, sometimes that's actually intimidating because it's like, well, I don't know anything and I don't want to be the guy who slows everybody down. know, I think in that moment, like something inside of me said, no, go for it. Just just go for it. See what happens. Yeah, I think that's so true. And I would say fly fishermen are
23:01
The stereotype and because it's often true is they are incredibly exclusive and elitist. Fill in the blank. it, like, and my friend's story of that is proof of that. Right. And I know other people look, but you're spot on. And I think people's hobbies can so easily be the source of exclusivity. And yet when that's flipped, right. When Jacob invited you to go with him.
23:31
when someone else says like, come join me in this. And then I would say like, not just tag along and kind of do your best to keep up, but come join. And I'm willing to like bring you into this to give you some instruction. God dang that is powerful. I think that those moments hold so much more than just the fun spending of time fishing or whatever the hobby is. Right? Yeah. There's something redemptive and restorative in it for sure. Different for probably every guy, but
23:59
As a whole, what about that is redemptive coding for men? think in my experience at least, and in my own story as well, like I think most guys have at least a low level degree, if not a significant degree of believing that they are outsiders. I think we as men typically believe that we don't belong, that we are imposters or are simply just not on
24:29
You know, part of the cool crowd, part of the inside. And so we believe that we are meant to live on the outside and meant to live on the fringes and not invited in. And so being invited in even in small ways is pretty significant for men. Yeah, I agree. think what's also like even maybe one step further beyond that. the invitation completely holds so much weight of the sense of belonging, like you're talking about.
24:57
But then some of the beauty of it too, when you are learning something new, it is like you're a beginner, right? You're not good at it. There's some vulnerability there. There's some vulnerability there, right? Like there is the, man, I'm trying to figure out how this is actually works. so for another man to then say like, great, I'm going to be with you there. And just cause you tangle your flyer line in the tree, I'm not going to leave.
25:22
Like even the belonging is communicated in the invitation to come and join. And it's also communicated in the, I'm with you and you don't have to be a pro at this. Like you can make a mess of this and it's good to be with you. Like your performance is not the critical variable here. Yeah. Well, that's good. That sounds exactly right. Jesse, I'm curious. So there's, there's a ton of value in inviting other men or being invited by other men into spaces like fly fishing and, and, you know, other hobbies.
25:51
And I'm aware that there's value in doing it on, you know, some like alone, not aloneness, you know, not isolation, but secludedness at least, or something like that. What do you tend to prefer? Do you like to fish alone? Do you like to fish with others and why? Yeah, man, that's a great question. The answer is yes. So like, so I love to fish with other people and there's, there's a whole lot of scenarios where that can get played out.
26:20
I do love the chance to go with someone who hasn't gone and to just be with them, try to teach a little bit. Like there's a sweetness to that, that is so good. I also love to go and fish with other people where I'm not instructing, where we are, especially on rivers, like we are far enough away that there's no way to have a conversation in the midst of it, right? Like the river's too loud.
26:49
But you're aware of the other person, right? Like I love it when you fish on opposite sides of the bank and you're like, I can see what's happening over there. And specifically there's a couple of buddies that I have loved the fishing together and the like mutual revelry of caught fish together. Like there was a time on the green river with my buddy Justin and my buddy Bart, where again, we were spaced out from each other and we were in this.
27:17
like Red Rock Canyon and the like shouts of joy as we would see each other catch fish like on behalf of someone else. Like I crave those moments like the mutual celebration, the mutual delight on the behalf of each other. Like so, so good. And the other thing I love about that also is it like it breaks every single unwritten code about fly fishing being like
27:45
You barely break a smile. You're just like, ah, been there, done that. I've, you know, I'm not totally unfazed. Right. And so that space, gosh, to share with other people, that is so, rich. And I think as I've gotten older, like there is more of the recognition of the goodness of fishing by myself in a way that can invite, not always, but can invite my enjoyment of my own company, like that I'm learning.
28:13
Right. That can be so easy. can be much more easy. Like I want to go with someone else to teach. I want to go with someone else to enjoy, but also frankly, like it's great. feel some of the ego hit of like, Oh, they can see me that I'm like this good fisherman. Right. And yet to go by yourself, like is to enjoy your own company. Right. And to be invited into something that is hopefully deeper than the approval of others, like hopefully deeper than performance.
28:40
And I say that that's not always easy. Like totally. And yet I'm coming to appreciate that more. Hmm. That's good. I know during one of the father son backpacking trips I did a couple of years ago, I did some fly fishing up in like this Alpine Lake. I'm not sure. I don't remember which one it was or what it was called. There's something amazing. I was on my I was by myself doing it and you know.
29:07
guys, if you've never been into that part of the world, like the water is so clear. Like you can see the fish, which is not necessarily normal around here. is it. It's so funny. And like, think that afternoon, like I caught a handful of these just amazingly beautiful cutthroat trout. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the Ruby red throats and they're, you know, and it was like, again, like I barely knew what I was doing. And so it was like super exciting just to catch one. Like,
29:36
Wow, God, thanks. You know, and you watch him come up and grab it. And it was just kind of this like fun and yet kind of holy moment, you know, even just for whatever it was, 45 minutes or an hour. Yeah. Why do you say holy Cody? I'm totally tracking, but like make unpack that more of why it extended deeper than just, Oh, this is super fun. Yeah. I think for me, at least there is something sort of just generally holy when in the mountains.
30:04
when in the wilderness and by myself, I feel like not only is it quieter outside of me, it can become quieter inside of me. And fishing often like requires that quietness or calls for it at least. peaceful quietness. And so it allows you to start hearing maybe some of the things around you, you know, the wind or the birds or the whatever, but also start to hear
30:34
what's inside of you and, you know, and the Lord and his voice. And those are the kinds of spaces that feel like almost supernatural. Yeah. Yes. Totally agree. Yeah. I'll just say this real quick. There's this great quote, which I think speaks to what you're talking about and it's from Thoreau and he says, many men go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish that they are after.
31:05
And I think what you just said, right, is like, know what, what you were actually after at that lake was the space to hear the deeper voice of God, to hear the deeper like currents and tremors in your own life. Like it is actually, that was actually what you were most after. Yeah. Sure. Through the surface level of catching fish, but that deeper place was the desire. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I'm going to tee you up.
31:34
With a question around that. I remember it was probably a year ago or so. Maybe you told me a story where you, think you were on a family vacation or something. And I was like, uh, you had gone a couple of times and then kind of last minute took like whatever. don't even remember if it was like 15 minutes or something or something. there was something around that story that feels in line with kind of what you're talking about. And so I'm curious, can you share that story? Do you remember it and can you share it? And then.
32:04
Also like in so doing answer the question, like when you're out on the water, when you're out on the river, when you're fishing, what is it that you're searching for? What are you seeking? Yeah. So I think the story that you're talking about, it was a couple of years ago, I was just coming to the end of the three months sabbatical, which was just such a sweet rich time. And it was like the last week there of my sabbatical, I had spent five days at, uh, this
32:34
just awesome Airbnb in Wyoming, right on the river. I'd spent the first three days of that fishing by myself. My family came for the last couple of days. So it was our last day there and it was on a Sunday and I just had the itch of like, man, I, I'd fished the river the whole week. So I'd kind of figured out where some of my favorite spots were and just had this itch of like, man, I need to go one more time. And like kind of look at true addict probably, right? Like I need one more. And, um,
33:01
And so I got up really early on a Sunday and I was totally freaked out. like, Oh, people are going to be there fishing. It's on the weekend. Like was kind of all sorts of worried. And so I go and I get to this great, great hole that I'd fished over the week and ended up catching this just gorgeous rainbow trout. Like the biggest one that I had caught all week was over 20 inches. Just felt so, so grateful. And I'm standing there like after catching the biggest fish of the week. So.
33:32
so pumped and I have the thought like I know there is this one other hole and I have like 15 minutes right like I need to get back to the house and part of me just felt like how what what that feels like a recipe for disappointment or like an exhibit of pure selfishness you just catch the biggest fish and your response is how about one more um and yet I was like uh whatever forget it I'm gonna do it and so I
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go traipsing across the island to the other part of the river and start fishing this hole. Some of the backstory of that is like brown trout are just, I'm infatuated with them. Like the beauty that they have, I freaking love them. And that whole trip I had caught nothing but rainbows. Rainbows are great. Don't get me wrong. Had not caught a brown that whole trip. I'm fishing this hole and as I kind of work my way up, you know, catch nothing, catch nothing. I'm getting to the end of the hole and sort of it's becoming clear like, oh,
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you asked for too much or like, this is, you should have ended the story after you caught the fish, right? Like, so I keep, you know, classic fishermen, just one more cast, just one more cast and end up hooking this fish. And I'm like, just pumped. I'm playing them, trying to get them in close to my net. And he finally starts to get closer. And I see this like flash of orange in the water, which is not the color generally of rainbows.
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And I'm like, Oh gosh. And so I get it netted and it's just this brown trout that's coloring looks like it's on fire. Like it is yellow and orange. It's in the fall. And that's when Brown's like the colors are stunning. And so I'd get it netted and I'm just in awe. And again, feels like the just over the top gift and the phrase that like stuck out, I think even as I was processing it with a friend later was like,
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And some of what you were asking for, what you're after, like in that moment, there's the sense of like, here's goodness that is unearned by me. Like I only received it. I did not generate this. did not earn this. And like stories like that. And I think the deeper desire of fishing is really is after that, right? Like on the surface and there's the hope of.
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Yeah, it could feed my ego and I can tell people about how many and how big they were. But deepest is like, no, to actually receive goodness that I, I didn't earn, but I didn't generate like that is the restoring healing space right where it's the reminder of like, am a son. Um, and so. Yeah. Jesse, I'm, feel like there's other things like tied up in all of that as well. One of the things you kind of mentioned was.
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the idea that maybe you shouldn't desire more. And then it's not okay to desire more. That it's selfish. foolish. I felt foolish to... Yeah. I just wonder if part of what you found out there was like, maybe it is okay. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's absolutely true. Right in the face of your desire is good. Your desire is seen.
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And it isn't foolish to desire for that. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I mean, I know you, you're not a boastful man. You're not a prideful. mean, we're all prideful to some degree, but you're not like, you know, crazy prideful guy who's always telling amazing stories about himself. And so there may been some of that in there, you know, whatever, but I just wonder if, yeah, there's this, the imitation of like, Hey, it's okay to have a little desire for more enjoyment.
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desire for more life. Yeah, the more goodness and a blessing of that. Maybe God has more for you. The other crazy piece of that story too, that I love, I've come to love more about it is from my phone totally spit the bit like two days before that. And so like there's no pictures of either one of those fish. Like there is no, there's no hit of like pulling the phone out and being like,
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Yeah, check this out. I'm such a big deal. there's that doesn't exist. And so the goodness of that only lives like in the retelling of the story. And I can tell you about that. Right. And it really is like only I know what those fish look like. And so when it happened at first, there was like a tinge of sadness of like, I can't share this with other people. Like they won't believe me or whatever. It's like, oh, no, actually you can. Uh huh. But it's different. Right. It won't be in this the general way that
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can blur that line of ego and approval and yeah. That's good. Jesse, for guys who are not fishermen and maybe aren't even sure how to have a hobby or how to have fun or how to invite or even be open to that kind of goodness for themselves, what would you say? I mean, I think I would say first, maybe to the men that
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that do have a hobby that is known that they're familiar with that they are comfortable in. I would say like, be aware of the breadcrumbs dropped by other men that indicate interest. Cause I think they're all over. Like the small comments of like, man, that sounds really fun to me. Or man, I never knew how to work on a car. Like I think those comments that breadcrumb other men's desire to learn to be invited are all over the place.
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We just missed them. And so I would say to all of us, like, if we are willing to be aware of those, to not just have our little tunnel vision on like the activity itself, but to say like, oh no, other men could have interest and to then be the initiator. So I would say like to that group of men. And then I would also say to those of us, right, who feel like we're on the outside, who feel the desire to learn something. It is so risky to express.
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Interest to say like hey, would you take me or I'd want to learn like I it's not lost on me What a gutsy and risky move that is because it risks the further confirmation of like no I am on the outside and The willingness to do that. I think it allows some of that to happen So when both parties are willing to engage in that to invite and to say like hey Would you take me when both are willing to risk that in that way? I think there's so much goodness that can happen because both sides will discount what they bring
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Right. We will discount, Hey, either they don't want me, they could, they I'm on the outside. They'll discount it that way. Or we can also discount it of like, whatever I fly fish, but that's not a big deal. I'm not pro or you know what I mean? Like both discounting can happen. And so when each party's willing to offer that or engage that, think there's so much. That's good. I think for the guys who like, maybe that's not their situation. Maybe they, they don't know what they're interested in or they don't have a hobby and.
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don't know what to do. I talked to a lot of guys, I asked the question you've mentioned before, what do you do for fun? I mean, probably half the guys that answer say they don't know, they don't have a hobby. They haven't had a hobby since they were in high school or college or something. And they're 20 years into their career and family at this point and have kind of lost that spark. And I would say to those guys, give yourself permission.
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And maybe more than just give yourself permission, but actually demand it of yourself to carve out some space and time to answer the invitation, to try some things and find something that is enjoyable because there is an invitation from the Lord that he wants to show you a part of himself. He wants to reveal a part of you and how he made you to be and who he made you to be in those spaces that cannot come out.
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when you're in the space of work, when you're in the space of dad, when you're in the of husband or whatever, the playful and the struggling through some of the like playful, like there is something there for all men. It doesn't have to cost a lot of money. You don't have to spend a couple hundred bucks on fly fish gear. know, it's possible. Amen. Brilliantly put. And that is because it holds, it will have to be fought for.
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Right. There is a risk to go into that and, um, because it holds just what you're talking about, right. It holds that weight and it holds that goodness and that uniqueness. Yeah. That's good. Jesse, thanks for inviting us into your life and your stories and your experience. Yeah, man. Yeah. Thanks for asking Cody. Thanks for, yeah, your curiosity and the conversation is sweet. man. Thanks for joining us everybody.
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We'll see you next time. Adios.