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We are a podcast that aims to provide raw, real conversations about deep topics that concern a Christ-centered lifestyle.
We want to go where no one else wants to go, and we want to showcase conversations and topics that are not easily discussed. We do this by going in depth and providing a well thought and expressed conversation about these topics.
John:
Okay, so not all gods and spirits are benevolent. Now, I know a lot of us have had different experiences with this, but, Michael, we were chatting earlier, and boy, did you have a story on this one.
Michael:
Yeah.
John:
Take us away.
Michael:
All right. Where do I start with that? My goodness. I was seeking in the occult world from about 21. I had been brought up as a Christian, and I'd walked away, seeking the power of man, really. I was seeking to be a shaman and to find my feminine side. I was doing all sorts of reading, all sorts of occult books, everything you could think of—Carlos Castaneda, Carl Jung, shamanism for many years.
Anyway, one day, I'm in my barn, which had been converted into a house. I had this big door. It was about midnight, and I'm on my own. The door opened on its own. I saw the handle turn, and it opened. This presence came into the room. It frightened me. I thought, "What is this?" I'd never encountered anything like this. I ran out of the room and into another bedroom. Then I realized there was something that wanted to encounter me.
A month later, coming up to a full moon, I realized whatever it was, I was going to encounter that night. I was an adept at out-of-body experiences. I used to do a lot of it. I could come out of my body and fly around different places, up trees, around the room, and the local environment. I was used to that.
John:
So there's out-of-body traveling.
Michael:
Yeah, my mind's spirit was out of my body, and I could function in that spirit realm locally. That evening, I prepared myself—the moon was coming up. I did use some homeopathy, which can open actual gateways, and I needed to open this gateway.
I went off in the spirit realm, traveling down this road, and on the left-hand side, I remember seeing a big black dog with long legs. He was bouncing in front of me. https://www.supernaturalbreakthroughs.com/
John:
And this is in the astral realm?
Michael:
In the astral realm, yes. It was an astral realm dog, with a big, friendly-looking face. He bounced into the middle of the road, so I pulled up—about a meter off the ground in my astral body—and looked at him. I could see what he wanted. I said, "Okay, come in." He came up really close, and I saw his face come right into mine. He came inside me, and then he took me down into the underworld straight away.
He showed me a body encased in a gray blanket and said, "That's your own body. Now come with me." He took me off to various places, showing me things over the years.
One night, I remember him poking me awake, and I said, "What? What do you want?" He said, "Your ex is now sleeping with so-and-so" and gave the name. This was at 2 AM on a Sunday morning.
When my ex came home a couple of days later, I asked about it. She went white, shocked, and asked, "How do you know that?"
Michael:
I told her, "That's all I need to know. I've got a spirit here speaking to me."
John:
So you've got what people call a spirit guide.
Michael:
Yeah, a spirit guide.
John:
Showing you secret things you're verifying as real.
Michael:
Yes.
John:
So people might think that's good.
Michael:
Yeah, I thought it was good, too. I would ask, and he would tell me where people were. I even had someone with a small farm who dropped some hashes on the land. He asked if I could find them. I said, "Probably, yeah." I walked up the field, stood in a place, looked down, and there they were. He asked, "How do you do that?" I said, "Well, I've got a gift, some help."
John:
So at what point did you start considering that this might not be a benevolent spirit?
Michael:
It did feel dark. Things around me were feeling dark. At one point, it took me to a place where I could see spirits from the times of Genesis—people born without bodies to inhabit. They were looking for a host.
John:
So he's showing you these spirits are looking for a host.
Michael:
Yes, they're looking to inhabit a human being. That's where clairvoyants get their access—from these familiar spirits. I did all that. I did runes, and I was seeking to be a man of knowledge, seeking to find my feminine side to be a shaman.
John:
But you're starting to question, "Hang on, this doesn't feel right."
Michael:
Yes, I noticed there was no love. It was all self-seeking, and these spirits were seeking embodiment. I remember seeing some others and asking, "Who are they?" I was told, "They're going to a different place. They're Christians." That's when I started to question if I was on the wrong road because these beings were dead, looking for embodiment, and there was no love.
John:
These other beings were going to a place of light.
Michael:
Yes, and I was in this place of darkness.
John:
That’s wild. Hanka, you were talking a bit earlier as well. This reminds me of what Michael said about self-seeking. You mentioned you had a spirit—it could have been Satan—ask you a question. You want to talk a bit about that?
Hanka:
Yeah. Michael mentioned an out-of-body experience, right?
Michael:
Yeah.
Hanka:
That’s what I experienced too. I was taken out of my body while I was asleep. It was really unusual because I couldn’t control getting back into my body. While I was out of my body, Satan was sitting in front of me and asked me a very specific question, something I would have liked to hear from my father.
John:
Wow. So it’s like he’s almost tuning into your innate desire or need.
Hanka:
Exactly.
John:
And then asking you a question.
Hanka:
Exactly. The question was, "How do you think you are doing?" I was thinking about all these wonderful things and explaining myself, all the attention on myself, how well I was doing. I thought I was serving humanity, and there was nothing wrong with it. But when I shared all the things I was doing, all of the work I was doing, he gave me a mocking laugh.
John:
Like mocking you.
Hanka:
Yeah, it was very unusual to respond like that.
John:
Why would he reveal that? Because you’d think, "Hang on, that’s sinister." We were discussing earlier how these malevolent spirits have this pride or disdain for us. I encountered, during a high dose of magic mushrooms, a being with the most intense hatred I’ve ever felt. It was prolific. I remember staring into this being, wondering, "What did I do to you? Why do you hate me so much?"
But listen to your story, Hanka. It’s like they can’t control themselves, and it makes you question, "Why are you laughing at me?"
Hanka:
Yeah, what kind of response is that? It’s definitely not coming from a place of love or peace.
John:
Definitely not benevolent.
Joao:
It seems like a common theme. When Michael said he didn’t feel the love and then Hanka as well, it reflects a lot of my journey. I was always seeking the highest light. I wanted the well-being of humanity. At first, I had a lot of experiences with love. Some of these beings seemed loving, but in the end, it was like the mask was stripped off, and I could see their true intentions weren’t to love. It was actually to drain people, to take host of them. I started seeing this false love, which gave me the contrast to understand that this wasn’t where I needed to be.https://www.supernaturalbreakthroughs.com/
John:
It sounds almost predatory, playing on your desires and fears.
Hanka:
Yes, very interesting. There are three universal fears in the world: "I’m not enough," "I don’t belong," and "I’m not loved." It’s like these beings are tapping into those universal fears.
John:
Yeah, so playing on that.
Hanka:
Yeah.
John:
It’s an intense thing. I don’t know if the listeners tuning in have had experiences where they've encountered a spirit that didn’t feel benevolent. Perhaps some might say, "Oh, that’s just my shadow, a projection of myself, an unloved part of my soul." Carl Jung has interesting points in this area. But in our conversation here, we’re saying, "No, these spirits are not projections of our own souls. They’re independent beings." Michael’s story shows this clearly.
John:
These spirits exist independently, in different realms, with their own intentions to seek gain from us, playing upon our fears and desires. So, from our experience, not all spirits are benevolent. We all agree on that.
Joao:
I had the same experience. It was very difficult to recognize that evil is a thing. Deep down, I wanted to believe that there’s only light, that everything has good intentions. Of course, we want that.
Michael:
They want your soul. That’s what they’re after.
John:
Yeah.
Michael:
I had a similar experience—an out-of-body one—where I was empowered, traveling up a road in my spirit. I came to the top of a hill with rocks on the side, and there were guards. I had enough personal power to go through. I started traveling across the wastelands, seeing dead animals, and I encountered a "burnt man." He was bigger than life.
John:
In the astral realm?
Michael:
Yes, in the astral realm. I was about two meters off the ground, traveling, thinking, "Where am I going?" Then I encountered this burnt man, and he said, "Come with me to the top of the mountain." In seconds, we were there. He showed me all things, all worlds, and said, "If you submit to me, I’ll give you anything you ever wanted." He wanted my submission. At that moment, a voice from the heavens said, "Michael, come back, will you?" And I went back on my silver cord.
John:
I like the "Will you?"
Michael:
Yeah, "Will you?" It was more than once.
John:
That reminds me, Hanka, of something you were saying earlier about the goal of these malevolent spirits—to defile us and gain access to us. Do you want to elaborate on that?
Hanka:
Yeah. What I’ve realized after walking with Christ for seven years is that it’s all about defiling your temple. As Christians, we don’t need to go to a physical temple to worship the Lord—it’s within us. The malevolent beings know who we are and what power and authority we walk in. For those who don’t know this, these spirits want to get into the body to defile its purity.
John:
This is why we see in many New Age practices, it’s all about opening yourself up. While that can make you more emotionally intelligent or sensitive, it also opens you up to negative forces. These beings want to defile you. Michael, you mentioned the black dog left a residue. It took years to clean that out. Is this what I’m understanding?
Hanka:
Yes, absolutely. Something else that came to mind is that these beings need access to different territories. For that, they need a human body, a human vessel. Many people are working with spirits, thinking they’re doing good because, in the beginning, the spirits give so much love. But eventually, the reality is revealed. The veil is torn apart, and it becomes clear that these spirits have their own agenda. https://www.supernaturalbreakthroughs.com/
John:
Got it. I want to wrap up this point and then talk about the contrast with beautiful spirits, holy spirits, that love us. Everything’s a contrast in experience. For me, coming to terms with this, when I encountered that fallen angel on a high dose of magic mushrooms, it shocked me. It took me months to recover from the hatred and intent it had toward me. It didn’t make sense because, like Joao, I believed in love.
It’s hard to accept at first, and for those listening, if you’ve experienced something similar, I get you. It’s not easy to come to terms with. These are our stories, and it took years of encounters to get to this point. But for me, the contrast became more apparent when I experienced the Lord Jesus. The light is so much higher. Michael, when you saw the Christians, you noticed the light was different. Let’s talk about the beautiful contrast.
Joao:
Yes.
John:
The atmosphere changes here. Everyone’s smiling. So, don’t all jump in at once.
Michael:
Okay. Where it started for me was that I was working at a Christian’s house, painting. She used to come out with coffee every afternoon, and we’d talk about spiritual things. I was into meditation and frequency stuff at the time. She was a bit challenging, and I thought, "Oh, she’s just a Christian."
But all of a sudden, she spoke a word from the Bible—something like, "The Word of God is sharper than a two-edged sword, dividing soul and spirit." It went inside me like a sword, and I turned around and said, "Ow, how do you do that?" That’s what the Spirit of God does—He knows how to get your attention. I had all these things I was doing, but I didn’t know how to speak a word that could go inside someone’s body. Three months later, I gave in. It was powerful.
John:
So that was your contrast of power, like what we see in the Bible, where there are demonstrations of power over other gods and spirits.
Michael:
Yes.
John:
It got your attention to seek out what the born-again experience was all about. What about direct encounters? You encountered the black dog, but you’ve also told me you encountered Jesus walking into a room.
Michael:
Yes.
John:
You noticed with the black dog, there was no love. It was a void. These spirits are trying to occupy other bodies for their purposes. Let’s talk about the contrast of encountering a benevolent spirit, whether it be an angel or the Lord Jesus Himself.
Joao:
I definitely have a story. In my journey, I had a lot of encounters with different beings, different visions. But one time, I was completely sober, and I closed my eyes and saw Satan. It shocked me, and I decided to meditate for hours until I could overcome it. I was deep into it, and I couldn’t. The energy of this dark being was too strong. Then, all of a sudden, I reached a very deep place, and this piercing, blinding light appeared. It was only for a second, but the condensation of love and power in that light was immense. In the midst of the light, I saw Jesus with His arms open. https://www.supernaturalbreakthroughs.com/
At that time, I wasn’t actively reading the Bible or attending Christian places. It was a sovereign encounter. The voltage, the quality of the love in that light, was of a much higher order than anything I had ever experienced before. My spirit recognized it instantly. From that moment on, my whole walk changed.
John:
Wow. Your story reminded me of where my pivot took place. I had refunded all my coaching clients and took a break because of my encounter with the fallen angel. I was living in Bali, and I went to this small church. I couldn’t believe I was going to church after all these years in mystical arts. I had despised Christianity, but the pastor told the story of the prodigal son, and it was perfect for me.
A friend of mine, Brendan, prayed for me at the end, and I felt power like I’d never felt before. I’d worked with powerful shamans and spiritual leaders, and they even used to refer to me as enlightened because of the kundalini experiences I’d had. But here in this little church, this power was beyond anything I’d known. It shook me. I couldn’t deny it. It was the contrast I needed to begin my journey back to Christianity. The power of the Lord Jesus is beyond anything else.
Hanka:
I received a huge revelation when I gave my life to Jesus, but I wasn’t baptized yet. I learned about the Last Reformation, and I realized you don’t need to do much to get healed. You just lay hands on people and say, "In the name of Jesus Christ, you are healed." I had been initiated by a shaman and worked with gurus, but nothing worked like that. Many people go to gurus and get healed, but then they need more healing, and it never ends. With Jesus, it’s simple. Less is more, and His yoke is easy and His burden is light. That was true freedom.
John:
Love it. Thank you. Thank you to everyone for tuning in. We hope you found something valuable in these stories. We appreciate you.
Hanka:
Thank you. Bless you.