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Interviews with world-class startup founders about their unique paths to uncover tactical insights they've learned about how to fundraise, grow, validate, hire, scale, and lead teams while building your startup.
Get full access to detailed takeaways on each episode, additional case studies, and more at join.foundingjourney.com
Children have playgrounds, and they have sandboxes and fun toys to play with. And the version of the adult's playground is starting a business.
Michael Houck:That's Andrew Young. After immigrating to the US, he got his cushy dream job in big tech, only to realize that it wasn't fulfilling.
Andrew Yeung:The thing I struggled with the most at Facebook and Google is that I felt like I wasn't using my full potential.
Michael Houck:So he set out on a mission to leave it all behind and became known as the Gatsby of New York startup scene.
Andrew Yeung:I know it just on the outside, it looks like I'm just throwing parties. There's a lot of work that goes into the parties.
Michael Houck:Now with his visa no longer tied to any employer, he's become a full time founder himself.
Andrew Yeung:Once I had started thinking about it and telling people, I realized, like, there's no turning back.
Michael Houck:He opened up and shared with me the hard truths of being an immigrant founder as well as how to get the press actually on your side, and the key to building trust quickly with strangers. This is Andrew Young's founding journey.
Michael Houck:Andrew, what's up, man? Welcome. Been a while.
Andrew Yeung:Hey. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to hear this. Yeah.
Michael Houck:So when we met, I think you were at Google. And before that, you've been at Meta working in product. And, you know, I did the Airbnb and Uber thing before jumping in and building LaunchHouse. It's a huge transition for someone to go through, you know, from the the kombucha on tap and the ping pong tables to being entirely responsible for other people's paychecks. What are you loving about that?
Michael Houck:What's that been like?
Andrew Yeung:The biggest thing is, you know, I read this quote a while back. It goes along the lines of, you know, children have playgrounds, and they have sandboxes and fun toys to play with and adults don't. And the version of the adult's playground is starting a business and being able to experiment with it, with the rewards being money, which is ultimately what, you know, a lot of people are interested in. So it's it's, like, it's felt like that exactly. You know, it's I felt like I've been able to tap into my creative side and try things.
Andrew Yeung:And, you know, I I think the the thing I struggled with the most at Facebook and Google is that I felt like I wasn't, you know, using my full potential. It was kinda like I was I was just jogging really slowly, you know, over a long period of time. And now I feel like I'm, like, sprinting, and I'm, like, doing a 100 burpees and, like, doing crazy pull ups. And I feel like I'm really, like, tapping into my full potential. So I'll say that it's been really fulfilling and, like, really fun and, like, really creative in in some ways.
Michael Houck:But you're becoming an Ironman.
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. Yeah. You know, one day, I'll physically do that, but not not quite there yet. May maybe like a half marathon runner or something like that.
Michael Houck:I guess, what's the other side of that coin? Right? Because I think, for me, I found an agency before I went to Big Tech, and it was really, really different than doing a a venture backed company. Your current business is, to my knowledge, not currently venture backed.
Andrew Yeung:Mhmm.
Michael Houck:What's the other side of that? What have been the kind of the challenges of diving in coming from big tech?
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. It's it's really hard, and you've probably heard this heard this so many times. It's really hard to turn it off from the perspective of, like, you know, your your headspace, but also your personal identity. You know, when you when you work for, like, an Airbnb or Google, your your professional personal identity is consistent. You're always known as the product person there.
Andrew Yeung:And and, you know, a lot of people, you know, they're they're sort of their egos and their self esteem. Unfortunately, it's kinda tied to your professional identity. And so that that's a consistent. And I think as an entrepreneur, if I have bad weeks, I sort of question myself, and I think about my self esteem. I reevaluate my self esteem, and I have a great weeks, you know, then I then I feel better about myself.
Andrew Yeung:So that fluctuates so much, and it's really confusing at the end of the day.
Michael Houck:What makes a great week versus a bad week?
Andrew Yeung:A great week usually comes after, like, a big project. So I recently did this founder conference, 500 people, and we spent, like, months planning for that. And it was so cool to see it come to life. And, you know, we did well. It did well as a project as well.
Andrew Yeung:And then so, like, 2 weeks following that, I just wrote this high, and I'm like, I feel invincible. I feel like I can do something even bigger. But then, you know, the flip side, all the bad the bad weeks are 3 months leading up to it, where especially for an events business. So, yeah, I feel like the good weeks usually come after, like, like, a a sale or a big win or a big project. And sometimes it feels like I don't know if you remember the scene in The Big Short where Ryan Gosling closed a deal, and he's in a gym.
Andrew Yeung:He's like, yes. You know, that's what it feels like. It's rare, but that's you know, those those are sort of the the the best moments.
Michael Houck:Do you think you're better prepared to handle the good moments and the bad moments after having worked in big tech? Like, is is one a not necessarily a prerequisite, but is one beneficial to now doing the other?
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Andrew Yeung:I think so. I I think if I have a bad week you know, I I worked in big tech. And so if I have a bad week and or if I have a really bad week and I'm like, I'm not meant for this, then I'm like, oh, that's cool. I can go back to big tech. I can go back to, like, a big company.
Andrew Yeung:And so, like, I'm like, what's the worst that could happen? You know, I've seen all this content online about the best founders have no option. But for me, it it's it feels more productive to have an option so you can be more playful and have more joy and treat it a little bit little bit more like a game versus if this was like life or death, then I feel like that wouldn't bring up, you know, your best qualities and your best work.
Michael Houck:Yeah. There's there's less desperation, but that's you, I think, treat decisions more objectively. You're not making decisions based on need, like personal financial need. You're making them based on what's best for the business or customers.
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. And I guess it depends it it kinda depends on the type of business you run. Like, maybe if the best thing for your business is that you should spend all night coding and building something, then then maybe that desperation is good because it sort of forces you to focus.
Michael Houck:But, you
Andrew Yeung:know, in my business, I I think my main job is to meet people and and to get them to come to my events. And so that comes from a place of desperation, and I'm like, please please buy this ticket or I'm gonna go out of business, then then it doesn't really work.
Michael Houck:Yeah. I don't think that's a strong sell. Yeah. I go back and forth on this because, you know, sometimes I feel like I waited too long to dive in and become a founder. Like, when I was at Uber, I took the job at Airbnb because I thought, okay, I'll get a different type of professional big tech experience before I'm ready.
Michael Houck:Right? But then looking back, I wonder if I was ready even before I was worried about that. Like, do do you ever feel that way?
Andrew Yeung:How many years were you at at a Uber and and, and sorry, Airbnb? Like, how many years were you in corporate big tech?
Michael Houck:I was in total, it was a little over 4 years.
Andrew Yeung:4 years? Okay. I was in yeah. About the same for me, but I I also had 2 years at some larger company that made telephones. Before that, I felt like I I could have done it maybe 1 or 2 years earlier, maybe.
Andrew Yeung:But before that, I wasn't prepared. I didn't have, like, the skills. I didn't know how to, you know, sell or I didn't know how to influence people or manage relationships. So I I need to at least, like, 3 to 4 years, before I was ready to take the leap.
Michael Houck:What can somebody who's in our shoes a few years ago do now to make sure that they are ready to take that jump? They're thinking about it.
Andrew Yeung:I think it's, like, just spending time with a with a ton of, like, early stage founders and maybe, like, at the c it's the seed or series a level, maybe series b where they have, you know, a bit of traction and product market fit. And, like, I think once an institution commits certain amount of money in your company, you know, you you've sold them. You sold them on the vision and on yourself. And so, like, spending time around these founders and understanding, you know, what skills they possess and, you know, how they built their companies and convincing yourself that you could do that as well. Once once you've done that, you're like, oh, I can do that.
Andrew Yeung:Like, all I could do all those things, so there's no secret sauce that I'm missing. Then you're ready to take the leap. I've thought about this a lot. Like, the the Google and the Facebook, like, analyst or product manager or software engineer maybe, there there's not much difference between their, like, skills and, like, an early stage founder skills from what I've seen.
Michael Houck:Mhmm.
Andrew Yeung:I think the difference is just, like, the risk taking. And so if you took my the cohort of, like, product folks I worked with at Google, if all of them quit and force themselves to start a company, I think they would do fairly just just as well as me.
Michael Houck:You know those day in the life videos from big time? Yeah. We have, like, the product manager at Google or whatever other company, or they basically spend, like, 0% of their day actually working.
Andrew Yeung:I
Michael Houck:think, you know, you and me know that those are obviously exaggerated, and they're trying to get clicks. But Yeah. Being a full time founder, you know, it is a big step up, I think, just the amount of time and actual work that you do in in any kind of desk job. Your to do list, like, it never ends. And so how have you sort of been able to still find time for the other parts of life as you've made the transition?
Andrew Yeung:It's been hard. It's been hard. I'm I'm really lucky that my girlfriend is, like, equally ambitious and understands, you know, where I'm at right now in my career. And she was previously a founder and, like, raised money and, you know, institutional money. And so she she gets it, and she's supportive.
Andrew Yeung:I think that's, like, the biggest bucket in your life. And, like, your partner understands the health stuff. You just gotta keep going on. And then, you know, the the fun personal stuff, that's the hardest part. Like, how do you make time for the fun personal stuff to ensure I I think there's been a few times in my you know, no.
Andrew Yeung:I've it's been, like, 10 months now, 11 months. There there's been a few times where I'm like, is this worth it? There's so much work. And I know it just on the outside, it looks like I'm just throwing parties. But there's a lot of work that goes into the parties.
Andrew Yeung:So, yeah, it's it's just having the discipline. And most people here here's where it gets really confusing. Most people don't have discipline to work hard. But if you're someone who starts a company, you probably don't it's more likely that you don't have this plan to help yourself, you know, take a break and enjoy yourself.
Michael Houck:That's true. I've definitely run into that myself. I mean, you mentioned sort of being around other start up founders. I would say that you actually have a leg up on a lot of other, you know, new founders because you've spent the last few years really deeply integrating yourself into, you know, specifically New York's startup community, but also the broader, like, online startup community. How have you been able to leverage that now that you are a founder to sort of hack the learning process for for building something new?
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. That's that's a really good question. Although, the obvious thing is, like, advice. So I just had coffee with, one of the cofounders of Lyft or the company Zimride that became Lyft. He's in New York visiting.
Andrew Yeung:And I just asked him questions for, like, half an hour. I'm like, what would you do if you're me? Like, you know, what kind of business do you think I should build? What do you think I should be doing differently? All these, you know, basic questions.
Andrew Yeung:And he's just seen it all from his peer group. And he's just seen you know, I think every path forward almost every path forward for me as a business owner and entrepreneur is probably mapped out. It's been done before. And I just I just can't see what those paths are because, like, I don't have peers that have achieved that level of success. And so, you know, talking to the people that have have seen it happen and understand the playbooks is is really helpful.
Andrew Yeung:That's number 1. And and then 2 is, like, I guess, when when you're when you're down, it helps to speak with another founder and know that, you know, they're share they share the same problems and just, you know, go into the sauna together to, you know, be emotionally be there for each other. But the the first thing is, I think and you probably have so much of this, but the first thing is so important. It's people who have seen who look at you and your type of business and your vision and being, like, not in a discouraging way, but in a way being, like, I've I've seen this happen in, like, these three variations to, like, a $10,000,000 business or a $100,000,000 business. And here's like, what you have to do.
Andrew Yeung:Just focus on these three things. And I think you can do it. And I've seen it happen, like, 80% of the time. And that's I think that's really encouraging.
Michael Houck:Yeah. I would imagine someone like that definitely, would have great advice. How do you get connected to the cofounder of Lyft, let's say?
Andrew Yeung:One of the companies he's building now is is around helping immigrants get visas. That was, like, a big passion thing for mine. You know, it was really hard for me to get a visa. It's one of the work reasons I'd left Google. It's I just didn't wanna be on their timeline and sorta, like, have the silver handcuffs.
Andrew Yeung:And once I had solved the problem and helped myself get a visa to stay in this country and build a company called Andrew's Mixers that sponsored my ability to stay in this country, I wanted to help others do the same. And so I I got connected with this awesome immigrant entrepreneur community, a lot of really amazing people, cofounder Lyft, cofounder VEMO, you might have met him too. Yeah. All these amazing entrepreneurs, and and they helped me write my recommendation letter and that kind of thing. So we just had a common sort of mission.
Michael Houck:I think we talked about that actually the first time we met in person ever. This was, like, couple years ago. You were saying that it was tricky, that you were in a tricky situation because you were you wanted to sort of start thinking about leaving and diving into your own business, but you were sort of you had those handcuffs. Like, what happened between now and then? Like, walk me through the the process.
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. So I remember meeting with you in Williamsburg, and I was like, how do I make money?
Michael Houck:And I
Andrew Yeung:was like, what are all the ways I can make money? And then and and you're very encouraging because you were like, you do it like this, this, and this. It's been exactly what I said before. Like, it's been done. Someone's done it.
Andrew Yeung:And so you just kinda follow this proving a road map. So so thank you for that. That was really helpful. I think when I when I started to lean into it more and when I started to tell more people that I was gonna start my own company, that activated all these networks that I didn't know existed. And so people made introductions.
Andrew Yeung:And through those introductions, let's say I closed, like, presales. And so when I had left Google on day 1, I had a soft landing spot where I'd add revenue immediately. Because I actually couldn't make money while I was at Google because of my Visa, while I was at Facebook, and I couldn't do that thing where, oh, I'll make a 100 k from my side project before I quit, you know, and I have this, you know, soft cushion. I couldn't do that. It was a hard cutoff.
Andrew Yeung:So I thought my way of doing it was, like, do getting precommits and getting LOIs and stuff, and that's exactly what I did. You know, I could talk more about it. But it's like it's basically an event sponsorship model. And then once I had started thinking about it and telling people, I realized, like, there's no turning back. I and I told my parents, I'm like, I'm thinking about quitting Google, and they're like, they're freaking out.
Andrew Yeung:It's kinda funny to see them freak out, and it made me wanna pursue it even more. Yeah. I and, you know, it's telling people telling people about it. It sort of commits you to doing it.
Michael Houck:Why did it make you wanna pursue it even more? That's an interesting comment.
Andrew Yeung:I I think there's, like, I guess, a rebellious part of me where, if they disagree, I'm like, I wanna prove them wrong.
Michael Houck:I can relate. Did you know that this was gonna be sort of the end game for coming to the US in the 1st place, like, when you first moved here, or is it something that you sort of decided and were as you got deeper into the startup community?
Andrew Yeung:I don't think I ever wanted to start a business. Like, my dream was, like, I just wanna be, like, an executive at Google, and that that would be I'm sure that's that would be a dope life, and maybe that's still in the cards. You know? A big tech exec or something and have a great have a big salary and have a great life. Pretty chill, I think.
Andrew Yeung:Pretty chill. But it was more so through meeting, like, people like you and all these founders in my network where I realized, hey. I I could build something. I think I could succeed at building, you know, small business, maybe, you know, medium sized business, and I would forever regret it if I didn't. And I could always go back to a safe place.
Michael Houck:You know,
Andrew Yeung:I could always get, like, a job somewhere, but I would really regret just not doing it.
Michael Houck:I think that's a realization a lot of people have the first time they start something because you're kinda it's kinda drilled into your head when you're younger that, like, oh, it's super risky to go off on your own. But, I mean, in my experience, like, the downside is lower than a lot of people think because the experience you're getting is so valuable for anything else you wanna do from that point on.
Andrew Yeung:I totally agree. I I guess that the thing I question a little bit more is, do people like hiring former founders? Like, let's say and I mentioned the scenario, which is, like, I can get a job again. Would people wanna hire me? Like, after you know, let's say I spent 3 years running a company, a random events company, and I try to get a product quote Google, like, would they wanna hire me?
Andrew Yeung:I actually don't know. My gut is, like, yes. I get a job, but probably not at the companies I worked at before. I don't know.
Michael Houck:Maybe like running an events part of the business, like a company that wanted to expand Yeah. Into events and have it be in house instead of paying someone for it.
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. Or like like wedding planning. Again, the wedding planning, it's pretty lucrative.
Andrew Yeung:But
Michael Houck:Those margins are are very nice.
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Houck:So for somebody who was in your shoes, they don't know kinda what visa to go after or how to do that. And you you mentioned the other day the extraordinary alien visa. Like, what what is that? What's the process to go go get that? How can people do what you did?
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. And I guess, first of all, if if anyone is interested, please, reach out. Happy to help and introduce you to the right people and write your letter of recommendation, if it makes sense. Yeah. So extraordinary alien visa, there's 8 criteria.
Andrew Yeung:3 that you have to meet as a baseline. Ideally, you meet 6 out of 8 of those things to have a strong application. I don't remember all those categories at the top of my head, but something along the lines of you need a really high salary. In my case, I took my salary from Google. That works as well.
Andrew Yeung:You're paid well. You need press. You need to have authored original material that is significant. So ad press, and I wrote I wrote some stuff for business insider. You need to be part of a exclusive membership organization, like like YPO, for example.
Andrew Yeung:You need, like, letters of recommendation, and and and then there's probably, like, 3 other things along those lines. Like, you oh, the other one is, like, you have to have judged a case competition or something like that. So it's all these, like, random things. Like, it you know, the the visa stuff is so outdated, but it's all these random things that you should meet, like, 6 out of 8. And what an attorney or really good, like, immigration attorney will help you do is put together a case for those things.
Andrew Yeung:And for the for the things that you don't have, like, press, sometimes sometimes you can pay a service to help you get those missing criteria. But for the o one, yeah, 6 out of 8. At minimum, 3 out of 8, but you want, like, 6 out of 8.
Michael Houck:Yeah. That sounds, that sounds like a arduous arduous process.
Andrew Yeung:It was a lot of work. I, and it takes a lot of intention. I I joined, but I took a bunch of random jobs and roles just so that I can make that criteria. I joined the managing director of Techstars Canada gave me a role, connector in residence, just so I could, like, fulfill that. I mean, I I obvious you know, republic.
Andrew Yeung:So I I did work. You know, I I I did connect people, but I I did a bunch of random stuff like that. I, like, talked to Columbia Business School so I get letter of recommendation. So, yeah, you have to, like, actively, you know, do stuff for the application itself and, you know, for for most people at least.
Michael Houck:I think, you know, a lot of great companies have been started by immigrants. Why why do you think that is, especially in tech?
Andrew Yeung:Yes. I saw that stat somewhere, like Sergey Brin and Google. I don't know. I don't I don't know. I I think, like, immigrants have, like, a lot of hustle.
Andrew Yeung:I think that's really what it comes down to and, like, large chips in their shoulders. I was raised in China. I spent 20 years in China, and a lot of my friends were raised in China. And the way we were raised versus a lot of my American friends, not a knock on my American friends at all, but it's it's very different. Like, some of my American friends were raised constantly being told that, like, they were loved and, like, there's a lot of unconditional love and that they were doing great and that we're proud of them.
Andrew Yeung:And I think that's, yeah, that's probably the right way to raise a child. But in China, it's like, you know, my parents are like, hit me and stuff. And like, you know, that was a big thing, like in Singapore, like they would hit people at schools, the teachers would hit their students with rulers, hit their hands and stuff. I don't know if I'm going off topic, but, like, random stuff like that. And Asian parents just really are to their children, like, Southeast Asian and East Asian.
Andrew Yeung:And so when their kids come to, like, America, it's, like, massive chips on their shoulders. They don't think they're good enough, and the consequences for not performing are are really high. You know, as a child, if you get hit as an adult, that's like just scale that up. So, yeah, I think a lot of kids are just, or a lot of immigrants just chips in their shoulders, and they just have to succeed, prove themselves. And I think a lot of people build companies and wanna be entrepreneurs because they're chasing not just, like, financial rewards, but, like, status and recognition and significance.
Andrew Yeung:Those are all all the things that immigrants want and crave, most immigrants. So I think that's probably it. The
Michael Houck:higher the stakes, the more you have to be focused and sort of perform at your your peak capacity. Maybe unrelated, but one thing that you've done as you've sort of transitioned to become a founder that is definitely a signal that you're hyper focused and you're kind of all in is you've given up alcohol, right, despite sort of being around it more than ever at your events. What was that specifically, like, a conscious decision because you're like, alright. I gotta build this company, or was it just a unrelated thing?
Andrew Yeung:It was somewhat related. It was, I used to be a really heavy drinker, like, like, 10 tequila shots a night, heavy drinker. And, I threw one big party at South by Southwest. It was, like, huge. It was, like, 2,000 people or something.
Andrew Yeung:It was open bar. And I just woke up the next day, and I felt like And I was like, hey. If every single weekend and up to that point, every single weekend since, like, age, let's say, 20, I've been hungover. And I'd like you know, that killed half my weekend just gone Right. Activity wise.
Andrew Yeung:And I was like, if I keep doing this, I don't think I'll be able to achieve my goals, like, the goals I set for myself, like building a company and, you know, all these career milestones. And so I was like, let me just give this a shot or else I'm gonna regret it. Same threat of, like, regret. Let me, stop drinking for a month and see how I feel. And, also, at the time, a lot of people I respected and looked up to were, like, sober.
Andrew Yeung:Like, I remember meeting Sam Parr, and he he was, like, sober for, like, a decade or something close. My friend, Lori Siegel, she's sober for 13 years, and I was like, shit. That's so cool. Like, they don't need anything. Like, they don't they don't need booze when they go to parties.
Andrew Yeung:So I just wanted to try it out. And then I guess it kinda became identity, like, external identity, which is good because people don't expect, like, me to pay for all the drinks at bars and at parties. So it saves me, you know, more margin for the business.
Michael Houck:Is it basically normal at this point because you've been doing it for for so long now?
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty normal. I don't really crave it anymore or, like, it's just not a part of my life anymore at all.
Michael Houck:I have to mention our bet.
Andrew Yeung:Oh, yeah.
Michael Houck:Yeah. So you tweeted, I think this was, like, a year ago maybe, that in under 5 years, less than 50% adults in the US would be drinking alcohol.
Andrew Yeung:Mhmm.
Michael Houck:And we bet an Omakase dinner on
Andrew Yeung:Mhmm.
Michael Houck:So a year later now, do you still feel that the subway movement will grow to that size, or should I start picking up the restaurant?
Andrew Yeung:Honestly, to me, it's win win. Like, I get to have dinner with you, so it's a win win. That was just like a random take. I looked at some data, and I was like and I I just started talking to a bunch of people who, you know, were have had the same point of view as me on alcohol, and I was like, this is this could be a thing. So I, yeah, I, I'm still bullish on on that.
Michael Houck:Yeah. I'm I'm bullish on it too. Would love to have dinner with you or you or a winner of this.
Andrew Yeung:But Yeah.
Michael Houck:Okay. So let let's talk about the business and sort of the audience building that goes into the business. I think your, you know, your business is so community brand and audience focused. You start on that before you even started on the actual rest of the business. You know, you invested a lot of your financial personal capital into kind of cultivating relationship capital.
Michael Houck:Right? You threw a bunch of these events kind of at your own expense before you even started taking on sponsors for them. Why could so much focus on relationships upfront, and should more founders sort of follow that approach?
Andrew Yeung:For me, it was really just solving my own problem. I was like, I was lonely. I needed friends. It was COVID. Things were all shut down, and I just needed to make friends.
Andrew Yeung:And so I did it in a very authentic way and in a really fulfilling way. That's why I think the events resonated with people because they're like this host, you know, feels like he has the right intentions. And in a city like New York, it it was just incredible how many interesting people I could meet just by hosting a dinner. At least coming from, like, Toronto or China, I'd never met the type of people I met, you know, in New York before. I didn't think it could turn into anything.
Andrew Yeung:I didn't think it would turn into a business. I didn't see the value of bringing together a group of series a CEOs, at all, but I just wanted to meet them and, like, learn from them. And I also thought just, like, fanboy, that was cool. You know, meeting the cofounder of Duolingo is really cool. So that was it.
Andrew Yeung:Just, like, wanted to make friends. And I I think for the, you know, for the 1st 2 years, that's all I told people. I I got invited to be on the podcast and stuff and tell my story, and I was like, I just wanna make friends. And these are just meet ups for friends to make make more friends. And then, you know, a year ago, I I that's kind of like a hard pivot where I'm, like, focusing on founders, investors, and, like, tech professionals.
Michael Houck:You've met so many people as you've been doing this, having these dinners and and then bigger events. What's your best key for building trust with someone quickly when you first meet them?
Andrew Yeung:For building trust? I I it really depends on the context. But I you know, it's a combination of a sincere compliment that shows that you've done your homework and that shows that you're curious and interested about what they're doing since your compliment and, like, the right questions. I think if you have that 1, 2 combination, you do that in the first two minutes, it's it's likely that you'll have a good conversation with them. And, you know, the the prework leading up to something like that will prepare you for the rest of the conversation.
Michael Houck:It's funny because that it's pretty low bar. It's pretty easy thing to go out and actually spend a little bit of time to do that. But so if you will do that, it does stand out.
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. What I've realized is that, like, people all types of people are so anxious at events and nervous to go say hi to a stranger. Even like last night, I was in this room. There are a few billionaires in a room, and I I realized that nobody was talking to them. There's everyone is way too intimidated.
Andrew Yeung:So if you just do that one too, you come in prepared and you go up to them and you're like, yeah, I admire what you did with this company. And I have, like, one really specific question for you. I read your book or I you know, listen to your pod. Just one specific question. You'll you'll immediately stand out.
Andrew Yeung:Even with a, you know, a a billionaire is probably, like, you know, they have people flocking around them and they get tons of attention. But even with that combination, I I think, like, you'll be memorable.
Michael Houck:So you've then used this IRL community to influence and build up your online presence, your your audience online, and you've also used the resulting online audience to then draw more people to your IRL events. So this nice flywheel go, how does that work? What's every every, like, component that goes into that?
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Andrew Yeung:Yeah. So I guess let's start with the digital, the URL stuff. I post a lot on LinkedIn and Twitter, sort of an open call. For example, founders to join me for dinner or for breakfast or at this event, and I'll specifically craft the post in a way that makes the event very interesting. And, like, it's sort of like proof that it's gonna be worth their time.
Andrew Yeung:So for example, like, I'm doing a breakfast on Friday, and the room is full of 30 seed stage investors and founders. And, you know, founders have the comfort of knowing that they're in a room with their peers, nobody who's trying to, like, sell them stuff or solicit stuff, or nobody who's, like, way too early in their career where it's a waste of their time to be in that room. And then we'll do the event, you know, then the event is a whole thing. I make the try to make the event as effective as possible. And after event, I'll post about it and post pictures and proof and get the people in the room to help me, you know, to comment and engage.
Andrew Yeung:So there's, like, a ton of proof around it. And then I just I just keep running that. You know, 6 to 8 events a month. And I think over, you know, a few years now, I've sort of built my brand as, like, the events guy who, you know, who has, like, these curated rooms of, like, really strong individuals, but also, like, these very accessible larger rooms where anyone is free to attend. So there's, like and that's why I kind of rebranded a little bit.
Andrew Yeung:There's, like, different formats for different people.
Michael Houck:Yeah. I mean, let's talk about the rebrand a bit. The the new name, I don't know if I can I can share your name is 5? Right?
Andrew Yeung:Yeah.
Michael Houck:Yeah. What is 5?
Andrew Yeung:My first job ever, I worked at a company called Bell. They made telephones, but they didn't make telephones. They, they're named after the man who made the telephone. They're like AT and T Bank Canada. And they had this product called 5 Internet or 5 TV.
Andrew Yeung:And I named it 5 as a reminder to to never work a job like that again. You know, it was it was very, like, you know, I made a lot of friends, and I'm grateful for my experience there, but it was just so unfulfilling and, like, just bad use of my time, I think. You know, I'd I'd left I I left that company, and I'd left the the country. And I come to New York because I was like, I I wanna reinvent myself because I wasn't happy of who I was while I worked there. So it's a reminder of myself to and I thought it was kinda funny.
Andrew Yeung:And I talked to a few founders who had cool names with their company's cool branding, and they're like, yeah, the name doesn't really matter that much. So, like, alright. I'm gonna pick 5.
Michael Houck:Yeah. It's funny because I went through something similar recently where, you know, my newsletter had been called Houx newsletter. And then with the launch of this podcast and with the launch of our case study library and everything, we renamed all of it to founding journey. So I moved as a way from my name intentionally. Was was that a factor too?
Michael Houck:You just didn't want it to be Andrew's Mixers anymore?
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. There's 2 things. So one is that Andrew's Mixers was didn't represent everything we did. Like, we did conferences. We did CEO dinners.
Andrew Yeung:We did Lumos House, which is like a 3 day event series at a nice mansion. So Andrew's Mixers didn't represent that anymore. I also, like, I I created that name kind of as a meme. I didn't think it'd become a business, and it felt weird to introduce myself as founder of Andrew's Mixers. I just I wasn't so comfortable with that.
Andrew Yeung:So and then the other thing was, yeah, like, removing myself from it. We recently did a a 30 person dinner. I mean, Jacob, my chief of staff, he ran the whole thing. It was his dinner, and he hosted it under 5. So we're able to, like, scale, you know, without having my identity attached to it.
Michael Houck:Yeah. That gives you a ton of benefits, both in the short term and the long run. But, yeah, I think Andrew from Andrew's Mixer is Andrew from 5. Andrew from 5 sounds good. Let's talk about Lumo's house.
Michael Houck:You know, just mention that. You know, I had 1 house. You had Lumo's house, 2 houses. You were really smart about it in a way that we weren't where you only host these coliving residencies or experiences for basically, like, a long weekend. Right?
Michael Houck:So a few days. We did it for a full month. I think the way you're doing it dramatically reduces the likelihood of inter member conflicts and bad behavior by residents and things like that. But as somebody who sort of built up your personal brand and you're obviously on the radar of these sort of legacy media journalists having written stuff in Business Insider. Do you worry about the potential downside of posting these sort of things?
Andrew Yeung:I do. I guess the difference is 2 things. Like, one is it's not a sleepover thing. So it's actually just, like, day events and night events. But the it's one is, like, not sleep.
Andrew Yeung:Nobody sleeps over except for the crew. And then 2 is, like, the events end at, like, 10:30 PM. You know, we're doing 2 events coming up, 2 Lumos houses, San Francisco and LA. It's really small crew, like, 50.50 max in the room. So if anyone, like, gets weird, I can, like, kick him out.
Andrew Yeung:And, like, bedrooms are closed, and so there's, like, no sketchy stuff going on with security. And I mean, I hope I'm doing the right thing. But, yeah, I'm I'm very and, like, I I don't drink, and I'm very vocal about it. So people tend to not drink
Michael Houck:that much. And I
Andrew Yeung:have a bartender who, like, is watching how much they serve. But but, yeah, the main the main attraction of those are usually the dinners, and then we we start doing fireside chats. So in San Fran, we'll have Rajat from Lyft there. But Lumos has more of, like, events that take place in a mansion over the course of multiple days, less of, like, a sleepover thing.
Michael Houck:Yeah. The no sleepover is really smart. You know, we had the sort of caps on bartenders and security for this upstairs area and things like that, but there's still a possibility to, for things to happen. And I think the tough part is the more exposure you have, the more personal brand you have, you know, the higher likelihood that you get hit with a hit piece even if you do everything right. You know, I mean, we basically had one employee who got you know, who was upset that my cofounder had basically let them go and a member that we had to kick out of our community after they brought gang members to the house.
Michael Houck:Mhmm. And so even if you do the right things in those situations, your position sort of can make you a target for someone who's feeling vindictive. So it's like, you know, I hope you never have to deal with that stuff, but it sounds like you're doing all the right things to try and avoid it.
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. I I got advice from, you know, one of the one of the really senior, like, GPs who's, like, who gave me some some tips from from your your scenario, and he's, like, always have, like, press ready to go, like, or PR strategy ready to go. Mhmm. And so I've been working on that as well. Just like, you know, you can, like, activate it whenever it's happens.
Andrew Yeung:So, I I think I think I'm doing all the right things. Fingers crossed. I mean, it's just so much out out of your control to an extent.
Michael Houck:Yeah. I mean, you're the Gatsby of Silicon Alley now. Right? So the press obviously likes you more than they liked us. But in in all seriousness, you know, building those relationships is tough, and you've done a great job with it.
Michael Houck:Do you think that, like, getting national PR or, I guess, just online traditional PR is something that more founders should invest in?
Andrew Yeung:I the only reason I wanted press in the beginning was for the visa. It's the only reason I wanted press. And now I I think it's cool, so I chase more press because I'm like, I think it's cool. I think if it depends who you're selling to. If you're selling to an audience where, you know, press is seen as as a, you know, a significant proof point for competency, then then I would focus on press.
Andrew Yeung:And, you know, I think that's actually a lot of business consumer, like enterprise. For example, I have a friend who runs, like, an insurance company, insurance tech company, and his buyers are all super old school, much older demographic. And they they're like, oh, Forbes, you know, amazing. We're in. You know, Forbes 30 to 30, we're we're in.
Andrew Yeung:So it just depends on, like, who your target audience is. But I think press benefits most people. I might be wrong there, but all the business I've seen tend to be consumer, and press is beneficial.
Michael Houck:What's the like, you mentioned your friend. What what value have you gotten from you know, do people recognize you more? Or, like, what's the the ROI for the business that they got doing so much of it?
Andrew Yeung:It helps me to sell to sell sponsorships for sure. And it helps me, you know, to get people into the room. You know, if I invite someone, I'm like, hey. Like, love for you to come to this dinner, by the way. You know, I've I've I've hosted a ton of these dinners.
Andrew Yeung:And the last one is featured in, like, you know, Fortune Magazine. Just I'll try to say it in, like, least less boastful way. So it's definitely helped. And it's helped with, like, the the personal branding stuff. Like, when people introduce me as, oh, this is the Gatsby.
Andrew Yeung:And it it's so cringe, but it definitely helps because people then will look me up after and be like, oh, this guy's, like, kinda legit, and we should, you know, give him 5 grand for his dinner.
Michael Houck:Yeah. I think that the I mean, that makes sense. I I think that the the tough part is that, you know, the the knock on traditional PR on social media is that traditional PR people are less pro tech than, you know, they they want them to be. Right? Like, even if you work with TechCrunch, you're not necessarily writing positive things about about tech.
Michael Houck:How how do you find founders can get around that and they're engaging in this way?
Andrew Yeung:I think the the underdog sort of framing is is strong is good. And so you'll see you're you're right. You'll see all these, like, traditional media, like, kinda on, you know, because that's what gets views. They'll on, like
Michael Houck:Right.
Andrew Yeung:Big companies and people with big brands. I I don't think I'm anywhere close enough to having someone write a hit piece on me. Like, someone tried, actually, and it just failed. No one read it. I'll send it to you.
Andrew Yeung:It's like, you can see it. It's like tech party planner faces the realities of building a business. I don't think anyone read it except for me.
Michael Houck:I I never heard about it.
Andrew Yeung:It was beyond a table too. So literally no my parents couldn't even read it.
Michael Houck:It'll it'll it'll get more views from this podcast than it'll.
Andrew Yeung:Like, framing yourself as, like, the underdog. And you're you're starting from a place of, like, scarcity, and you've you've done all this stuff to sort of help help others and and to build community. And that's my language, bringing people together. I don't charge for tickets. It's really hard to them a business that, like, really is helping, like, young founders.
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. And I, you know, I kinda it's not on purpose, but I kinda play into, like, the immigration angle a little bit. And that's a big part of my identity. I don't do it because I want good press, but I do it because I care about, you know, that. And like the, yeah, the the mandate of the business is to help people learn how to make money and how to build an awesome life and how to meet other people.
Andrew Yeung:And and, you know, it's really hard to on something like that. So for any founder who's like, they wanna avoid that, it's like, find the positives of your business and play into the underdog angle and, like, work work with someone to to shape your story. I I worked with this amazing woman, Lori Siegel. She she, helped Zuck form his story and Tim Cook back, you know, a decade ago, and she helped me put my story together. She she literally just sat sat down with me over lunch and over an hour, she's like, tell me everything interesting about yourself.
Andrew Yeung:And by the end of it, she'd written a paragraph. And I was like, holy crap, like, this made me you made me sound so dope. And that was actually what led to the Gatsby article. She made that introduction. I didn't pay her.
Andrew Yeung:She wasn't a consultant. She was just just a friend. So like, sit with someone like that, who like is good at storytelling. And maybe maybe you want to hire a PR person speak with for like an hour, 2 hours just to put your story together. Because while I think a lot of tech founders are great at building product and doing their thing, the storytelling is, like, a whole different game that I haven't even begun to explore.
Michael Houck:Wow. That sounds like a like a valuable a valuable meeting. I think especially less familiar with the storytelling side, having someone like that who can come in and help you find that narrative thread can be helpful for personal brand or also for a start up.
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. It's so crazy how, like, 1 hour how much of a difference an hour can make. And it's, you know, she came up words I never knew that I could use to represent myself. And and, like, part of it is, like, therapeutic too. Like, I was like, oh, shit.
Andrew Yeung:You make me sound way doper than I am. And and, like, maybe that's the truth. You know? In fact, that probably was the truth. And I was like, wow.
Andrew Yeung:I feel so great about this business. You know, it's not just an events company. It's like this, this, and this. And I was like, that's cool. Everyone should hire someone like that.
Andrew Yeung:And, like, do, like, 1 to 2 hours and and just, like, find another angle. Find find, like, the best lens you can use to represent your business and and your story.
Michael Houck:How do you think about that lens on, you know, traditional media channels versus social media? Right? So I think you do a really good job as you mentioned on on Twitter and LinkedIn. You've also got the newsletter where you, you know, push out all your events, but also write, like, founder essays, that are really good. How do you think about the lens you you put forward in in that sense?
Andrew Yeung:I I haven't had any, like, formal or professional help there, like social media branding and per you know, you know, that part of what I do. So I don't know if I'm doing it correctly. But I will say, like, every I've noticed like, I've gone through my tweets the past 2 years, and I've gone through my blog posts, and everything is, like, literally about, you know, helping people lead better or write better or, like, perform better at their job. And, you know, if and those are all just proof points that I care a lot about this kind of thing. And so I think it's it's very clear what, like, my goals and my missions are.
Andrew Yeung:It's not, you know, I'm not trying to sell courses or, like, I'm not doing this purely for profit. I'm not trying to squeeze, you know, money out of every single person I meet. It's more like I I care because I spend all my time, like, writing about it. And I think my writing needs a lot of improvement. And the the Twitter stuff needs a lot of improvement.
Andrew Yeung:I need a proper, like, audit and evaluation so I can, like, revamp the approach. But for most part, like, it's very clear what I care about. And I think if you simplify personal branding, it's people wanna understand, like, who you are, what you stand for, what problems you believe exist in the world, and how you're solving those problems. And even if you're not writing your tweets that well, it's clear what your intentions are. So I I would encourage people, like, if you're a founder and you're not, like, you know, creating that much content, but you are in a business or a vertical that that can benefit from, like, social media content, start thinking about all those things you can write about and write down a list of, you know, stories you can tell or tips you can give, all servicing, like, your your broader mission.
Andrew Yeung:And I'll serve and, ideally, that's a mission that your business services as well serves as well.
Michael Houck:Do you think all founders should build personal brands, like, even if they have very different businesses than you're at?
Andrew Yeung:I I don't think all founders should do it. I can I can you know, there there are probably some scenarios where a personal brand can either harm you or it can just take your focus away from building the business? I think I need I need, like, more time to sort of come up with specific scenarios. But for example, like a situation where it could harm you is in in a verticals where it is untasteful to be allowed about it. So maybe, like like, for example, if you're tech if you're a professional that works in, like, investment banking, it's just not part of the culture to, like, post about, like, how much money you make and and how many hours a week you work, and and it's just, like, part of that culture to be seen as a joke if you do that.
Andrew Yeung:So or if you're building something that serves investment bankers, like using a founder example. So it it's like it's important to understand, like, you know, the cultures of of the audience you're you're speaking with. And then in other scenarios, like, if, you know, it can just take away your time, if you're building TikToks or you spend all your time writing threads. I think it's there's an important distinction be between, like, like, a creator founder, whether you're creator first or you're founder first. Like so for example, I I think I'm actually creator first where I start all this by tweeting and LinkedIn, you know, through LinkedIn, and I'm trying to build a business out of it.
Andrew Yeung:Whereas there are people who built companies and just wanna tell their story. So, yeah, it it sort of just depends on, like, what space you play.
Michael Houck:Yeah. I make makes me think about one of the more interesting essays I've read recently, which was that taste is eating Silicon Valley. Right?
Andrew Yeung:Mhmm.
Michael Houck:Where the tech and startup industry is sort of being taken over by taste and high quality experiences of products like linear rather than the sort of ship fast and and break things. Right? Do you think that's true? Are you seeing that in the communities that that you're part of?
Andrew Yeung:I read that essay too. She's, I think Anu. She's like she's an amazing writer. I love Reach. It's the only one of the only things I subscribe to.
Andrew Yeung:I don't know because I I guess I look a lot at at consumer products, like, you know, meetup apps and group chats, and I'm I'm I'm hoping someone will build something substantial there that can, like, solve the problem I used to have and something that I can use to connect the people in my in my events, in my communities. I'm always looking at these apps. And, you know, one side, I I've seen beautifully designed apps, amazing, you know, user experience, strong founder, good onboarding flow. Like, it just ticks all the boxes, but, you know, the product itself is just not not that useful. We're not that substantial.
Andrew Yeung:And I'm like, that kinda meets the taste requirement. You know? It's a it's a cool app. It's it's hottest, trendy. And then after you know, then the retention's not good because people end up deleting it.
Andrew Yeung:Versus on a on a flip side, you see things that are ugly and and do very well. And I think that's, like, the the more common example. So I I don't know if, like, this taste alone. You know? I I think the the fundamentals that that that essays seems to sort of discredit, like, maybe my interpretation is wrong, but, like, product fundamentals to build something that people need and and, like, find useful.
Andrew Yeung:And then and then maybe the the the taste and the stylistic elements comes, you know, or secondary. Yeah.
Michael Houck:It could also just be that we're, like, super early on that curve, right, of Yeah. Taste being a a factor that people care about. So might be, like, a a more future looking perspective. So okay. Let's talk a little bit about about events.
Michael Houck:Right? So you obviously know more about events than, know, just about anyone else that I know. I had an events business in college. I've seen the the highs and lows of that business too. From a founder's perspective, should founders be out there hosting events?
Michael Houck:Like, what kind of founders should be hosting events, I guess, is a better question.
Andrew Yeung:I see events as a founder, I would think I would try to understand, like, what events could do for for the business or for for myself. And so, like, if you wanna host events because, like, you just wanna meet other founders and, like, you need friends and peers, then I think that's a good reason to do it. If you wanna use events as a as, like, a let's say, consistent this is consistently. I think, like, anyone, you know, could could consider any founder should consider hosting a one off event once a year, you know, once every 6 months. That's fine.
Andrew Yeung:It doesn't take that much time and planning. You know, if you're doing, like, a launch event or something, let's say consistently, like, monthly or more. So if you, like, if you wanna host small dinners to meet other founders, I you know, to just for emotional needs and to make friends, I think that's fine. If you wanna use events as like a, like, b to b sales channel, and you're, like, selling to other founders or, like, you know, you're selling to engineers at Google or something like that, then I think, you know, that could be a good use of your of your time with the assumption that it's it's it's your team hosting it, not not you, like, spending your time doing event planning and organization. But if your company hosted, I think, you know, I've seen events to be a very strong b to b sales channel with with some verticals.
Andrew Yeung:But if you're doing it consistently to build your brand, I don't think that's a good idea, especially as earlier stage founder. Like, a personal brand or, like, company brand, I think you should be focused on more on, like, the conversion to get prospects in the room and like, you shouldn't be throwing parties every month just for the brand.
Michael Houck:So, obviously, it's better for especially early stage startups if these events can be sponsored. Right? They can partner with other people as well. You're the master at this. What can founders do to make an event attractive to sponsors?
Andrew Yeung:Oh, to sponsors. So sponsors will will sponsor an event. From what I've seen, they'll sponsor an event for two reasons. One is to make you happy and just to be a part of your network and, like, to do you a favor. And so, typically, you'll see this from, like, law firms.
Andrew Yeung:Like, for example, if you have, like, a law firm or retainer and you're, like, you're you know, they they have a lot of business from you. And one day, you're like, hey. I'm doing a launch event. I need some help covering the costs. You put in, like, 5 to 10 k.
Andrew Yeung:I'll probably do it as a retention tactic to keep you happy. In in my case, I I don't work with any larger law firms, but, you know, people put in a check for the event just to sort of, like, get into my good graces as weird as it sounds and to get maybe some introductions down the road. And I actually I've done that too. Like, I've sponsored an event. I sponsored an event last night where I'm like, I I I love this individual and, like, I wanna give back, but also I kinda wanna, like, tap into her like, their network a little bit if they have buyers in the room, like, specific prospects.
Andrew Yeung:And so to be to effectively sell to them, you should be very clear on who's in the room as clear as possible, as as clear as you can get. For example, I have 20 deep tech b two b founders who've raised between $35,000,000, with, you know, 10 employees with 10 to 15 employees and like 3 engineers on payroll. That's a very specific sponsor I'm thinking of as I say that. But that's an example. The more clear you can get, the better.
Andrew Yeung:And then your job is like, just fill the room with those folks. But but I do think like if you're a venture backed company, and and you have and, you know, you have deep pockets, it's probably not worth your time to go out there and sell sponsorships. That's a whole business on its own. You should probably just pay for the dinner if it's, like, $3 and just take it as, like, a cost, you know, customer acquisition cost versus, like, spending a week or 2 weeks mastering the event, like, logistics and then, like, selling sponsorships and doing, like, 50 sales calls, probably bad use of your time. So I just I would just pay for it, to be honest.
Andrew Yeung:Unless you have, like, a law firm that's like, yeah, we'll do we'll cover, like, 5 of your events of the year.
Michael Houck:What about the other side of
Andrew Yeung:the point?
Michael Houck:From a founder, someone's coming to be wanting to do events and wanting me to sponsor them. At what stage should I start to think about that? How should I evaluate if it's a good opportunity or not?
Andrew Yeung:You know, with an event sponsorship, you know, I guess the flip side of that is, like, if if there's a individual that you wanna build a relationship with because, like, you wanna sell to them or you wanna tap into the companies, their network, and sell to those people. So, like, a very specific reason, then then maybe it's worth, like, sponsoring just to build a relationship. I don't know if that's, like, a bad take, but that's how I've done it, and that's how I think through things. And then the second example of conversion, you know, if it's anywhere from, like, 3 to 5 k, if you're let's say, if you're a founder that's raised, like, a $1,000,000, it's really, you know, it's really small piece of that $1,000,000 and you're testing a new acquisition channel, I think it's worth giving it a shot. Now I would do it well.
Andrew Yeung:And, And, like, what I would ask for if you're sponsoring dinner is, like, you get to be in the room, you get the emails, and you get to give opening remarks and talk a bit about your product, then I and and the event is has to be very creative. Then I think it's worth trying as a as a acquisition channel just because I've seen it work so well for my sponsors. And if it you know, if it works well, I'll just, like, put more money into it and, like, scale scale that channel.
Michael Houck:I think kind of the third and final side of the coin is, like, as an attendee. Right? As a founder, you sort of get if if if you're chronically online like I am, you sort of get inundated with these invites to various types of events, conferences. But there's this inherent conflict between spending time on that and on growth and on building the product and on the rest of the business. I see some people kind of fall into the trap of, like, doing all of the conference circuit and the events, and they're sort of like playing founder more than being a founder.
Michael Houck:How do you make sure that you stay on the right side of that?
Andrew Yeung:I think the the short cop out answer is that if you're, like, a serious founder, it should be pretty obvious. Like, you should know why you're going to so many events. And, like, there there you know, I know some very serious founders who go to a lot of events, but they go they join these founders dinners because, for example, at my founder dinners, everyone stands up and introduces and introduces themselves, and they sell to other founders. So by going to one of these, you know, dinners, you you that's like a sales it's a sales thing for you. I I know.
Andrew Yeung:I I think if you spend all your time, like, going to events, like, 3, 4 times a week, and it's not for sales or it's not for fundraising, you know, it's inevitable. And and it's like, there's there's very little I can say to be you know, to convince you, you know, to to turn you into a strong founder. Like, if that's your natural instinct, like, get all these events. And this goes back to, I guess, like, more founder fundamentals, but understand, you know, why you're going to so many events and, like, what the specific outcome you want from that is. There's no specific outcome and you're going because, like, oh, there might be, like, a cool person here, then it's probably a bad a bad reason.
Andrew Yeung:Another thing you can do is, like, in a very polite way, you can ask, like, who's gonna be in the room. So you know ex you know exactly who you can meet and, like, what you're gonna say to them. And it's gonna make it more mechanical, but it'll be a much better use of your time. And a lot of people have asked me that. And I I I won't, like, share names for privacy reasons, but I'll be like, these are the profiles that are gonna be there.
Andrew Yeung:And usually that's good enough, you know, for these founders. So, yeah, ask ahead of time and, like, know exactly what you're getting into and try to find events that have, like, an out where you don't have to stay for, like, 3 hours.
Michael Houck:I know when I've gone to your events a bunch of times at this point, especially the the Junto Club series that you do, you send detailed emails ahead of time with, like, groups of people who you think should meet each other and they're all on the thread. And it makes it really easy to just get in there and actually make it valuable right away because you've done the work for me. Right? You know, I had somebody in one of those groups offer to become my cofounder.
Andrew Yeung:And Yeah. Cool.
Michael Houck:Ended up not building that company, but, you know, the offer was there and the person was super legit. So how do you sort of engineer those serendipitous introductions? Any any good stories around that?
Andrew Yeung:People have, like, dated. Yeah. People have, like, dated and, like, people have, like, angel invested. I I this guy, Jun To, that wrote, like, 2 100 k checks in 2 of my friends' companies. Yeah.
Andrew Yeung:All all sorts of, like, productive business and, like, social stuff happens, which is great. Yeah. It's funny. A lot of founders come, like, for the social aspect, as as well, which, you know, totally what it's meant for. I understand that, like, attending one of these events, no matter how accomplished you are or how confident you are, is still nerve wracking.
Andrew Yeung:Like, it's hard to go in a room with a 100 people and, like, introduce yourself. So I I just try to make that process easier. So when you walk in, there's, like, now we have, like, a check-in person who's, like, very friendly. You're assigned by good color. So, you know, it breaks the ice.
Andrew Yeung:You know, you see someone else with a blue sticker, you're like, hey, we're both in the same group. And then you can connect with people ahead of time. And to, you know, in in the past, how I've matched people up, I do these groups of 10, you know, 10 groups of 10 for a 100 people. I'll match together, like, either people with, like, common goals, like fitness is a common goal, and so I put them in the same group so they have yeah. I don't want them to be talking about that the whole time, but it's a good icebreaker or, like, similar role profiles, like CEOs in the same group and creator type founders in the same group.
Andrew Yeung:So, honestly, there's no magic recipe. I just try to do my best of putting people in the same group that I think can get started with the least amount of, like, tension and small talk.
Michael Houck:We were always trying to, like, guess what the the commonality was, and that was the best part of the icebreaker. Honestly. So let's work on that. For 5, have you thought about the path of of fundraising? Obviously, the events model, typically not a venture backed venture scale style business.
Michael Houck:Have you thought about a way to position it that way? Is that part of a goal that you have, or is it, hey, this is a bootstrap business that you just really wanna build?
Andrew Yeung:I wouldn't fundraise for 5. I've been offered, like, very fortunately offered, like angels and stuff, but I care too much about, like, freedom, you know, my own freedom to, like, do whatever I want and, like, change the name to 5. And, like, to do, like, a whole different event format and to, like, try these new business models. And, like, I mentioned the playground thing earlier. That's I care most about that.
Andrew Yeung:I don't even know what I would do with more money, to be honest. So maybe I'm I'm definitely not the right person to run a venture backed company for for Vibe. Definitely not for me. Just care too much about my, like, autonomy.
Michael Houck:I love that answer. I think a lot of a lot of founders are feeling that way right now, even with software businesses. You know, you've also been on the other side of the coin, the other side of the table with my old lead investor from our seed round, Launchess, Jesse Middleton at Flybridge. And you guys have started, along with some other great folks, Next Wave. Tell me about Next Wave, and, you know, do you see yourself going full time on VC in the future?
Michael Houck:What what's the ambition there?
Andrew Yeung:So Next Wave is a pre seed fund that's backed solely by a Flybridge, and it consists of, I think, 10 or 12, sort of, like, partners who have the autonomy to write checks and decision making power on a specific check size. It's a smaller check size than normal. It's all sort of, you know, veteran founders except for me, but, like, most of them is veteran founders and, like, executives who wanna learn more about VC, and this is their taste. You know, this is their way of getting into it. So, you know, Lindsey Kaplan, the founder chief is in it.
Andrew Yeung:And then, you know, like, Faye Goldman for Brex. So it's really solid group of, like, operators, ex operators. And, you know, I've learned a lot about, like, how to evaluate companies because we get to hop on a call with Jesse and his team. The thing I don't like about VC is, like, so much of it is saying no. And I'm so used to saying yes to founders and, like, inviting to the vets.
Andrew Yeung:And, like, you know, my whole mission has been, like, helping people make friends. You know? I started with that. Now it's, like, helping people learn, you know, from more experienced founders. I'm doing the summit on the 25th, which you should come by, by the way, if you're free.
Andrew Yeung:And it's, like, got the cofounders of, like, DocSend and Chief and Demo, and they're just speaking to a 100 founders. It's a very curated room. And and so that's been my whole mission. And now I'm getting all these calls and, like, saying no. And, honestly, it's really draining.
Andrew Yeung:And, like, I I have some founders that I haven't responded to in 3 weeks I feel really bad about because I don't know how to say no. So I don't really like it that much, to be honest, but still still learning. You know? I'm still learning. I like the idea of how, like, horizontal you can go and how broad you can go to learn about these new industries.
Andrew Yeung:And but I don't like the actual act of, like, saying yes or no.
Michael Houck:Yeah. You say no way, way more than you say yes in BC. Yeah. It's tough. It's tough to say no.
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. Especially if, like, they're your friends. You know? And I I have founders who have been to my events for 2 years over, like, 15 events. And I was always like, I'm gonna help you.
Andrew Yeung:I'm gonna help you. Like, you're an awesome individual, and I'm gonna help you. Like, I didn't say I'm gonna help you, like, raise money, but I was like, I'm just gonna help you as a person because, like, I think you're awesome. And then they're like, oh, like, now you're an investor. Like, do you wanna invest?
Andrew Yeung:And I was like, yeah. You said you would help me.
Michael Houck:Those are really hard conversations to have. Like, you do wanna help them. You actually do. But an investment decision is is different. It's different.
Michael Houck:So no no full time VC in your future, your founder for life.
Andrew Yeung:Not in your near future, but I'm I'm still, like, trying to understand, like, the career path a little bit, you know, of a, let's say, solo GP. I've seen some really interesting business models that I think could be really fulfilling. For example, there's a lobby capital, and they have an events business, and they have a fund. So it's kinda like money, you know, imagine, like, money 2020. The guy who runs it also has a fund.
Andrew Yeung:It's like because, you know, the event business is your cash flow business. And, like, because you have so many awesome people in the room, you can leverage that for deal flow. Like, that to me, like, it kinda goes hand in hand. So I wanna explore that a little bit more. But, yeah, so far, it's like the VC stuff hasn't I won't say it hasn't been fun, but it's been a little bit unexpected.
Michael Houck:Anything unexpected on the founder side?
Andrew Yeung:Honestly, everything has been unexpected. I didn't think it would be this much work. Like, 6, 7 days a week, I was like, oh my god. Way more than I thought it'd be. Like, I haven't had a weekend in a while.
Andrew Yeung:But it it's also like, it reminds me of, like, when I was addicted to video games, and I loved playing and I could play all day, but then I would feel like shit after because I was staring at a screen for too long. It's like the same exact feeling. I could work all day because it's so fun, but I just feel like shit after. And then honestly, like, I know this is kinda contradictory, but besides the volume of work, it's been, like, a little bit easier than I thought. Like, sales has been a little bit easier than I thought.
Andrew Yeung:And maybe that's because I've spent the past few years building building the brand. But, like, the b to b sales thing has been you know? And I'm selling to, like, these large enterprises, like, some, like, public companies, but it's been, like, a little easier than I thought. I think maybe because my contract size is smaller, and they can just put it on the credit card.
Michael Houck:Yeah. I think you did the right work upfront too. And I think more founders as they're thinking about jumping into something, you know Mhmm. Rather than just jumping into the first thing they see right away, maybe take some time and build up that personal brand, build up that awareness of who you are and what you're doing, what you care about like you did. So I think it's it's a huge asset for you.
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. I think I think that's right. Building your credibility and trust. And so that's why, you know, on this on this on the theme of, like, big tech to founder, you get a lot of I I've seen a lot of big tech execs that leave to start companies, and they have so much credibility from their network Right. When they leave that it's so much easier for them.
Andrew Yeung:And it's and it's hard to do that if you dropped out of school or, you know, if you're 1 year of working at some random company and then you know? So the credibility piece help absolutely helps a lot. And it's also, like, solving a real problem. Like, I didn't sell until people are begging to buy. That makes sense.
Andrew Yeung:Long before I started the company, sponsors came to me and were like, can we please, can we please sponsor this? And so maybe that was, like, a sign of, like, small scale PMF.
Michael Houck:But Yeah. It's a it's event market fit. Right? Well, okay. We have a couple little rapid fire out there questions I like to do with folks.
Michael Houck:You up for that?
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. Let's do it.
Michael Houck:Cool. Okay. So first one, who's an investor that other founders should take capital from other than yourself and and Next Wave?
Andrew Yeung:I think taking money, it's important to take money from an investor that can offer more than just the money. Maybe that's an obvious statement. But if an investor has deep expertise in the space that you're building in or, you know, more of what I've seen, which is if an investor has distribution and that they have an audience and they can for example, you know, I think Rex Woodbury, it's a big newsletter. He just started a fund, and he talks about his companies in such an organic way where I'm like, I clicked in almost every single company. That's, like, immediate.
Andrew Yeung:You know, that's your go to market. You just get featured in their tweet or their newsletter. So any investor I'm biased toward investors with large networks, with influence, and with distribution. That's probably my first my instinctual answer.
Michael Houck:What's one thing that you would change about the startup world?
Andrew Yeung:You know, as as much as there is as much education as there is in the space already, like, you have conferences, which by the way, most of the conferences are kinda useless. Mhmm. Just sponsors paid to speak on the stage. Literally pay money to speak. That's why I wanna do my thing, you know, on October 25th.
Andrew Yeung:There's not not a lot of good material on on how to get stuff done, and and you're doing this, which is great. You know? It's like how to raise a seed round and how to build a company and and things you should look out for. And and if you get really specific, it's like, if you're gonna raise a price round, you know, things you should avoid and, like, I I feel like there's so much noise. And so I think there should be more transparency from founders who are open to being vulnerable and revealing, like, the true behind the scenes.
Andrew Yeung:And I feel like I've talked to founders who, like, posture, and they're like, oh, I did this, this, and this. And really, that wasn't those weren't the drivers behind how they achieved success. And then I've talked to other founders who are really honest and and, like, here's what we did really well, and here's where we messed up. And I think we need more of that. Nobody ever likes talking about where they messed up and where luck played a role.
Andrew Yeung:So I'd love to have more of those conversations.
Michael Houck:Yeah. That's totally true. That's why over the summer, I interviewed, you know, 60 founders who've raised money, and we wrote case studies about every single one of them. And we've sort of packaged them up under this new founding journey. Brand script and just read them.
Michael Houck:People are super candid because, you know, it's it's not totally public. It's behind the paywall. And so they know they're just talking to other founders.
Andrew Yeung:And I've noticed, like, a lot of founders who've, like, shut down their companies are obviously a lot more honest, and that's where you can get some of the insight best insight on, like, what you should have done differently. Yep. But nobody talks about shutting down their companies. I they're actually startups now that help founders shut down their companies. It's kinda intriguing.
Andrew Yeung:Venture backed companies.
Michael Houck:I forget the name of it. Ryan Hoover sent me one, when he was investing in it.
Andrew Yeung:Forgot
Michael Houck:what it was called. Sunset? I'm not sure.
Andrew Yeung:Sunset. Sunsethq.com. Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Houck:Okay. Next one. What's one piece of advice what's your number one piece of advice for a first time founder?
Andrew Yeung:Find a mentor. You know, find someone who's done it before. And, you know, you can listen to them, but you're not gonna do what they tell you to do because, like, you know, we're stubborn people. You're gonna, like, learn it for yourself, but just find someone who's, like, done what you're trying to do before.
Michael Houck:I love that. I think more founders should do it. You can see around corners. Okay. Last one.
Michael Houck:This is Peter t o one. I love this question. What's something that you believe in? Doesn't have to be startup related, but can be. Something you believe in that most people disagree with you about.
Andrew Yeung:I'll go back to what I said earlier that I really believe there's very a very minimal skill gap between that associate at Google and, like, the founder. And if you're someone working, like, a tech job and you manage to get in, you know, you're probably at a certain level of competency, and you're wondering if you can do it. I think you should try because you surprised yourself. And, honestly, today, I I felt, you know, I built this events company, and it's it's done, like, pretty well. I was, you know, making more a lot more than what I was making at Google.
Andrew Yeung:And I go back to see my colleagues there, and I'm like, there's no difference between us. Like, you're just as competent as I am. I you know, some situations I like I'm like, I still feel like You're still way smarter than I am. And if you just, like, took the leap and, like, just tried it, like, you could you could just get you know, you could build a business that's, you know, whatever doing just making you more than you're you're making now. So, I think there's this belief where people put founders on a pedestal and, like, they've done some extraordinary, and they have, but I think you could do it too if you just took the risk.
Andrew Yeung:Well,
Michael Houck:give yourself some credit, man. You actually took the risk, and I think it takes some intelligence to see that that's actually a good and, like, a rational move.
Andrew Yeung:A lot
Michael Houck:of people don't see it that way.
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. Appreciate it.
Michael Houck:Well, cool. Andrew, I think a lot of people probably already know where to find you, but where should people go online to to find you, to follow you, to get involved in your events, all that stuff?
Andrew Yeung:Andrew Young on LinkedIn. My handle's tagline is I build tech communities. So, like, LinkedIn is probably the best place now. I I don't know what's happening in Twitter. There's so much spam everywhere.
Andrew Yeung:So go LinkedIn. I'm gonna be posting more there.
Michael Houck:Cool, man. And people should subscribe to your newsletter too. All the events you post them in there, that's where I get to sign up for them, check what's going on. So, cool. Well, hey.
Michael Houck:Thanks for coming on. It was great to chat, catch up, and, maybe I'll see you on the 25th.
Andrew Yeung:Yeah. I'll see you soon. Thanks for having me.
Michael Houck:Of course, man.
Michael Houck:Thanks for listening. I write up my main takeaways from every conversation and make them available to all of our members at foundingjourney.com, along with a bunch of other perks and more content. If you found this conversation valuable, subscribe to Founding Journey on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or whenever your favorite podcast app is. I post a new episode every Thursday. Also, consider leaving us a rating or a review.
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