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HR entrepreneur Mike Coffey, SPHR, SHRM-SCP engages business thought leaders about the strategic, psychological, legal, and practical implications of bringing people together to create value for shareholders, customers, and the community. As an HR consultant, mentor to first-stage businesses through EO’s Accelerator program, and owner of Imperative—Bulletproof Background Screening, Mike is passionate about helping other professionals improve how they recruit, select, and manage their people. Most thirty-minute episodes of Good Morning, HR will be eligible for half a recertification credit for both HRCI and SHRM-certified professionals. Mike is a member of Entrepreneurs Organization (EO) Fort Worth and active with the Texas Association of Business, the Fort Worth Chamber, and Texas SHRM.
I would argue that, organization that does not want to invest in training is not sustainable. They may have a niche and they can go for a little while, but they are going to suffer at some point. And by training an individual, it it not only makes the individual better for the organization, it makes them better for the personally for their family and the community and everything. So it's a win win. The value is there, more it far outweighs the cost.
Mike Coffey:Good morning, HR. I'm Mike Coffey, president of Imperative, bulletproof background checks with fast and friendly service. And this is the podcast where I talk to business leaders about bringing people together to create value for shareholders, customers, and the community. Please follow rate and review Good Morning HR wherever you get your podcast. You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, or at good morning hr.com.
Mike Coffey:As suggested in the opening, I believe that businesses operating in a free market, capitalist environment have a profoundly positive impact on society. Indeed, no other system has pulled people out of poverty and relieve human suffering more than capitalism. And in my experience, most business leaders want to be good corporate citizens. They want to leave the communities in which they operate better than they found them. And perhaps the way many businesses can most impact their communities, for better or worse, is through their people practices.
Mike Coffey:Joining me today to discuss how a company's people practices can make positive impact on their community is doctor Kenneth Nichols. Kenneth is a Navy veteran with over 30 years leadership experience, and he holds a doctorate in business administration and a PhD in product management. He is the founder of Nichols Leadership, a coaching and training practice deeply committed to unlocking the potential of individuals and organizations. Welcome to Good Morning HR, Kenneth.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Thank you, Mike. Thank you for those kind words as well. Happy to be here.
Mike Coffey:So we've known each other for a while. We work on the talent committee with the Fort Worth Chamber together, and and you're really tuned into what's going on in the business world, with regard to leadership. We've we've talked a lot about emotional intelligence and those things. But when we're talking about being a good corporate citizen, giving back to the community, those things almost sound trite, because it gets said so often. And a lot of those folks who are really just skeptical of business as a force for good kinda roll their eyes when they hear it.
Mike Coffey:But when you're talking about a business's responsibility to the community and a business doing good in the community, what does that look like to you?
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Well, now to start out the, sustainability, you're gonna be looking at the people, planet, and profit, and obviously, the organization is there to make money. But you wanna leave that community or I shouldn't say leave. You wanna improve the community as the organization improves itself. And you have to have boots on the ground, so to speak. Boots on the ground.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:It's always good to see leadership out and about in a community. I think that will remove some of the skepticism, because you see the individuals that are running the organizations actually, being a part of the community. And so projects like that real efforts like that really help, as far as trust. And, you know, trust goes a long ways when you're starting a business or you're, developing a business and you need to build that relationship. So that that's that's it in a nutshell.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:You know?
Mike Coffey:Yeah. I think a lot of what you see you know, banks are a great example. You know, the there's there there are very few large community events whether it's Chamber of Commerce or things that some bank doesn't have. You know, they're not underwriting it. They don't have their, their logo someplace.
Mike Coffey:And maybe that's a little bit of branding for them too, but at the same time, you know, I think banks, more than most other industries really realize why they need a healthy they need a healthy community. They need a healthy economy for the bank to thrive. They need that they need the businesses and the individuals who live in that community to thrive. And there's, there's, you know, they seem to get it and other businesses do too. And sometimes it's just, you know, throw my logo up there, but they're, you know, beyond just paying for events and helping sponsor those kind of things, what are ways that a company's people practices can impact the community?
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:You know, one of the things is like a, I don't know, maybe like a, walk, some kind of community walk. Something that's healthy. Partnering with, local let's say the local farmers to have some fresh produce at the finish line or something like that. All these things galvanize communities where it's very impactful, in the industry. And so, I think that's the way that the people wanna see and what they wanna feel.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:And besides a healthy community, as you stated, means, less time off at work, greater, reduction in insurance costs. And these things go far beyond just what you actually see.
Mike Coffey:And we all wanna live in communities, right, that are thriving. And I don't know anyone who owns a business, who who's an HR leader or anything like that, who doesn't want to see their employees succeed personally, but also, like, see their kids, you know, thrive and and be successful and move on, you know, to achieve educations and maybe jobs that their parents could have only dreamed of. And and I think, you know, certainly as a business owner myself, I love, you know, to say, you know, I love it when one of my employees has outgrown the company, when they've gone on to that next thing. And and I know that they're they're in whatever community they end up in. They're gonna be a productive member of the community and and and help produce, you know, just great things, in that community.
Mike Coffey:And I hope that their time at Imperative, whether it was, you know, 2 or 3 years or 5 or 6 or 10 years, help them along that way. So So when we're talking about the HR practices and how they affect the community, let's just start at the beginning of the recruiting you know, the employee life cycle, and let's talk about recruitment. How does how does your recruit how does a company's recruitment practice impact the community?
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Well, I'd like to see the, recruitment practice. 1, the recruiting should be reflective of that community that they're in. But obviously that gives you some diversity. But to be inclusive and and make the community feel like they're a part of it, it's good for growth. It's good for everything, like you said, the children.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:There are I'm sure there are quite a few individuals that probably could have outgrown their community, but they are so tight knit that they wanna keep their children there. They stay there longer, and it's just great for everybody. And also the company, most company would like to recruit somebody and keep them on staff until they retire. That's that's good
Mike Coffey:corporate law. Loves that. Yeah.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Yeah. Yeah. It's not always, you know, it's not gonna happen, but it could happen. And that's what, striving towards because of the cause, training, and you really get to know the individuals that are in the organization. The organization knows the community.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:And it's just a beautiful cycle when things like that happen. And also the recruiting, having recruiting events at a and, you know, sometimes they're at the corporate headquarters or wherever location is. But there's nothing wrong with probably having it at the local YMCA or something like that. That, allows people to feel comfortable and come in and even apply for the jobs. Also, some kind of training programs could be put in place that, you know, at the sometimes at the library.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Whatever it could be that would, enhance those individuals chances of getting jobs with that organization.
Mike Coffey:Well, especially yeah. And I think that's a I think a lot of employers are recognizing. Yeah. I can get the talent I need out of town, and I can maybe convince them to move to our community. And and and, you know, a certain amount of that's healthy for the community to have some, you know, new blood and diversity and all that.
Mike Coffey:But that's got an expense to it, You know, because you're relocating an employee. You're taking a gamble on on making all that investment in someone, to, you know, to bring it into the organization who has those skills versus looking at your current workforce or your current community and saying, here's a need here. And if we invest here, to develop the skill set we need, whether it's, you know, some sort of whether it's, you know, some computer based skills or some technical skills or, you know, pipe fitting, whatever it is that we need. If we can get someone in the community and we can train people in the community in a skill, that not only puts that person in a great job for us and maybe helps build a loyal employee base, but it also shows the community that, hey, we care about the community that we're we're an engaged employer and we're investing in the community. We're not just looking to bring in a bunch of strangers into the into the community for them to do the work and live in a suburb outside of town away and not be a part of the community.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Right. Absolutely. I it speaks volumes for the organization and the community. It's a it's a it's a cult a huge cost saver to invest from, promote from within vice bringing, you know, people in. And sometimes you have to do that, and that's good.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:But that strike that balance there, it's it's good for everybody. Not only for the, and and like I said, it also shows the community that the company is is, good for them and they can promote. They can get training. They can do, you know, everything. Almost like one stop shopping, which, galvanizes the trust in that relationship.
Mike Coffey:And I've I've heard over the years, some employers say, well, I don't wanna spend all this money on training my employees because then they can just leave and go join another employer and take those skills with them. And, well, yeah, they they may well do that. And that's in large part, you know, directly connected to how engaged that employer makes that employee feel and how how much, you know, how much loyalty do you develop and deserve from the employee, you know, beyond the fact that, you know, they show up every day and you give them a paycheck for it.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Right. So I I did training many years, you know, in air traffic control. And I would argue that, organization that does not want to invest in training is not sustainable. They may have a niche and they can go for a little while, but they are going to suffer at some point. And by training an individual, it not only makes the individual better for the organization, it makes them better for the personally for their family and the community and everything.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:So it's a win win. The the value is there more far outweighs the cost. So when I talk about training, I talk about value. I don't talk about the cost because once you get that training, it's yours. You're gonna have that the rest of your life.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:And so who can put a dollar figure on that? But the value is absolutely there.
Mike Coffey:You mentioned diversity a little bit ago when you're talking about bringing the community in. What does it talk more about having a diverse talent pool that reflects the community?
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Yeah. Well, so you like, we we talked about, computer back computer training or some technology training. And you may move your organization into a community that's, blue collar. So how do you balance that? You know, and and everybody doesn't wanna be in technology, but somewhere in between there lies a spot where you can train individuals that do want to be in there.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:So you see somebody that's, looks like the community in certain roles. Doesn't matter what the community is because it could be anywhere. And so that also, brings a comfort level to the work environment, the workplace, You know, a team of 1 is gonna be a solo team and that's not a very good spot to be in. Some people may like to work solo, but that's not good for the, overall business. So, when you when we look at things like that, you wanna figure out how you can balance the workforce, the workplace to where it it looks like it's legitimately okay to be in that community.
Mike Coffey:And I think that's, one thing that I know I've I've heard people say about some companies, they don't want people like me. Because I, you know, I I drive by there in the morning at 9 o'clock when everybody's walking in the door. None of them look like me or there none of those guys are local or whatever, and so they don't want me. And then I can say, well, so have you applied? And they'll say, well, no, because I don't have that feeling that they even, you know, that they even want me.
Mike Coffey:So and, a or they've just got the idea that, oh, I can't do that job. I can't work there. I'm not you know, I don't have the background or the education or whatever without even investigating what's really involved there. So I think it makes it easier for the employer to hire and to fill positions if they're communicating openly out to the community. Hey.
Mike Coffey:This is a place that you could work. And, you know, maybe you start where your skill level is, and it's not that that dream job you've got. But if you'll invest the time and effort and we'll invest the time and effort in you, that will get you to that that kind of role that you want.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:I agree wholeheartedly. So that's one of the things about community outreach where the community actually feels comfortable with leadership, you know, sitting down with them and they've seen, you know, the CEO or the vice president, what have you, even the frontline managers because that communication, a lot of information gets shared and that brings that fear down or that barrier, whatever it may be perceived as a a negative mindset. And so then you start making progress. But we have to, like I said, put boots on the ground and get out in those communities and and and sponsor events that, you wouldn't ordinarily do or maybe knew, may not. You know, one of the things we did in the military was probably once a quarter or something, we'd have some kind of community event, whether it's hot dogs, hamburger.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:But it just brought people together. And then people started building relationships and then it, you know, everything from there snowballs into something that's really, really good for the community.
Mike Coffey:I think one of the things that's really true is people are telling a story about your company. And if you don't if you're not actively connecting with them, that may not be a good story that they're telling themselves about your company. And so, you know, in the absence of something positive, we often go negative. Right? And so, you know, I think that's, you know, the things like that, just simple community outreach things could make a real positive difference in how how that organization is, trusted in in the community and how they, how they're just generally perceived.
Mike Coffey:I think another thing that we do when people think, okay, they don't want people like me or they don't want or I don't I don't I'm not deserving to be there. I don't have the skills or whatever. How we word our job descriptions and our job postings, especially, and, you know, how when we have a, you know, we need a we need a skill set, we need a position to be filled. How we communicate that out to the public makes a big difference in the kind of language we use. Do you have any thoughts around that?
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Yeah. Absolutely. That that that's true and I'm smiling because, you know, I did 30 years in the Navy and I did a lot of things. But when I retired, like, well, they don't understand the same lingo. And I'm looking at a job posting and I'm looking at this and I'm like, hey.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:I did that for, you know, 15 years. But, words and the language used don't match up, so we gotta figure that piece out. And, I know it's a lot of analytics and some computer stuff that can read resumes. But sometimes somebody needs to sit in a chair and actually look. Hey.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Take a look at this man or woman's resume and see if this, you know, if it matches. And let's have a conversation with them so we don't lose a great talent because the analytics didn't pick it up. Because that's, yeah, that's very true.
Mike Coffey:And let's take a quick break. Good morning HR is brought to you by Imperative, bulletproof background checks with fast and friendly service. For many employers, any review of a candidate's social media profile is taboo. That is a privacy line they simply are unwilling to cross. But within the confines of title 7 and other anti discrimination laws, a candidate's off duty conduct, including how they conduct themselves on social media, may be relevant.
Mike Coffey:For example, if the employee engages in illegal or negligent conduct on the job that might have been predictable and therefore preventable, had the employer simply reviewed the publicly available information about them on the Internet, the plaintiff's lawyers will certainly be using that information in a negligent hiring suit. So for some positions, threatening, coercive, or bigoted online behavior may be a legitimate concern. In other instances, references to personal drug or criminal behavior may be relevant. Imperative helps clients conduct necessary online due diligence while building guardrails around the process to ensure that irrelevant or potentially discriminatory information isn't provided to decision makers. You can learn more about the many ways imperative helps our clients make well informed decisions about the people they involve in their business at imperativeinfo.com.
Mike Coffey:If you're an HRCI or SHRM certified professional, this episode of Good Morning HR has been preapproved for 1 half hour of recertification credit. To obtain the recertification information, visit goodmorninghr.com and click on research credits, then select episode 152 and enter the keyword community. That's c o m m u n I t y. And if you're looking for even more recertification credit, check out the webinars page at imperativeinfo.com. And now back to my conversation with doctor Kenneth Nichols.
Mike Coffey:You know I've got a I've got a presentation I do at conferences around mitigating bias in the employee selection process. And a big part of it is thinking about, you know, correlation isn't always causation. And so sometimes we we, you know, I've always talked about the the engineering firm that only hires engineers from Texas a and m. You know? Because they've had past success and then you know?
Mike Coffey:And they've had successful engineers in the past, we we assume that that's gonna be the the path to replicating that success in the future, where, in fact, if, you know, you could hire engineers from the University of Texas at Austin and, and and get smarter, better looking, engineers from UT Austin. And so that's, and I'm I'm that's a gig because, our producer, Rob, who's sitting on this call with us, is, an Aggie, and I just did finish paying off a UT degree for one of my kids. So but I think we sometimes think assume that what we've done in the past is what caused the success. And not a lot of times, you know, if if if we crack those job descriptions just to get more of what we've had in the past, we may be missing real opportunities to expand and diversify our talent pool.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:I agree. I I was thinking about that earlier, and I'm glad you brought that up about the not just the community but the colleges around the community and surrounding and the, leadership in these organizations putting out a list. I I don't know. Whatever. And and look at all the surrounding colleges.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:So you gotta be able to pull talent from all of them to make it a greater mix, a more successful sustainable future. Because if you did hire all from a and m, you would end up very biased for 1 and it would be skewed to one side. But the University of North Texas or University of Texas at Arlington, SMU, TCU, Baylor. I mean, that's a huge, wealth of knowledge. Young knowledge still have to be trained regardless of what they graduate with because they're gonna go to the corporate and learn how they do it.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:But to have a talent pipeline from each one of those institutions has gotta be a huge plus. And if HR is not tapping into that, then they should figure out what they need to do, through collaborations, meetings, white papers, whatever it may be to get, to get those universities on board, even TCC. I mean
Mike Coffey:Oh, yeah. Yeah, the local community colleges
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:for sure. Right. Yeah. It's a lot and I would venture to say we need to look sometimes to go down to the high school level to have those curriculums tailored to better fit what's going on real time in the communities. That's a huge thing because as a young person, of course I joined the military, but there's not very many young people that wanna go 14 hours from home, for this new job, and you're gonna be completely, in a new community, new area.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:You gotta fly. Vikes drive, if you drive, you gotta have more than 2 days off but you know, your paid time off is not that significant when you first start. So, all those things are really matter, and they're important.
Mike Coffey:And and one thing the military does, I think, better than the private sector has traditionally done is develop competencies. I mean, there are precious few recruits in the in the military branches who have the competencies to just do basic things, you know, that every every member of the military has to be able to do, you know, to fire a weapon, to clean a weapon, to to do the basic things. And they train them in those competencies, and they give them specialties, and they train them. They don't send them off necessarily to to college for those you know, they're they're really competency based and more and more employers, are moving away from degrees. You know, if if I'm hiring a computer, programmer, I don't care that this guy got a computer, programming degree 20 years ago because whatever he learned 20 years ago is probably not nearly as relevant as the competencies that he can demonstrate right now.
Mike Coffey:And so I think you mentioned the community colleges. I think we're gonna see a lot more employers begin to focus on less on 4 year degrees for a lot of positions and more on competencies. You know, maybe, you know, recent certifications, or other ways that they, you know, that applicants, can demonstrate they've got those competencies. And now I would guess that that is only going to open up their applicant pool much wider. If I can you know, instead of having to enroll in a 4 4 year program or a 2 year community college program to to get the certification in order to do this job.
Mike Coffey:If I can if I can do this online course and learn to code, in Python and and, you know, at a basic level in 4 months or 6 months, I'm way ahead. You know, that and that's gonna make that's just gonna open a lot more, job candidates up to that for those employers.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Yeah. I agree. I like that. I'm a big proponent of trade schools,
Mike Coffey:with
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:community college and and certifications. And I think that's part of what's missing in our schools now. We don't do as much trade stuff as they did back in the in the eighties or whatever. What what those skills do is also give the individuals they learn a critical think. They actually are spot on a job.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:They know how to do the job. They love those jobs, and it also leans more towards being a better communicator. If you're a critical thinker and a communicator, I think I can train you to do anything because you you you have it.
Mike Coffey:Right. You and I are on that on that that committee that the former Chamber of Commerce has put together to try and address the the shortage of, you know, so called people skills, but they're really, you know, soft skills, but they're really people skills or power skills. I mean, they're really those hard things, and a big one there, I think, is critical thinking. And I think you're pretty you're an advocate that we can we can train people to this isn't something you have or don't have. We can train people to think critically.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Right. Well, one of the reasons they don't think critically is their communication skills are so poor, in lack of a not really poor, but they just don't they don't have to use those communication skills because of technology and phones and computers and stuff. You know, have a, a sit down conversation, with your parents or, you know, grandparents or somebody where you really get that knowledge and wisdom that makes sense, you know. And I I think I heard you say, one of our meetings that your your, children all you sit down and have conversations, so you know they know how to communicate and stuff like that. That's very important.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:I was talking to a group last week, on Monday about the same thing. The younger people, lose out on a lot of knowledge, family knowledge, corporate knowledge, by not having those conversations with their grandparents and their uncles and aunts, you know, like we did. Of course, we didn't have all this technology. So some of those conversations are are are funny, hilarious, and some of them are not so funny, but you get knowledge from it. You learn things from it that otherwise you wouldn't, get, like mentorship from, grandpa.
Mike Coffey:Exactly. And I've I certainly had that. And you mentioned grandfather. My grandfather was best man in my wedding. I, you know, he he passed away a few couple years ago, but I, he he had a giant impact on how I see the world and think about things.
Mike Coffey:And if I've got any success in my life, you know, he's got his fingerprints on it. But people some people don't have those relationships growing up or it's too late for those you know, they've spent so much time in their phones that they can't really, you know, they you know, it's they've missed those opportunities with their family. What about internal mentorship or coaching programs? Do you think that young you know, bringing those younger workers or those those workers who don't have that experience and sometimes they're not young. Sometimes they're 30, 40 years old, which is young to me, but they don't have, you know, they don't have they just haven't been in roles where they've had that experience and to and to really be contributors to the organization.
Mike Coffey:Maybe they need those. Talk about mentorship, coaching, and what do you think the role of that is in bringing in those kind of skills?
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:I think that's huge. And, mentorship is, one that's unlike coaching. Coaching, I can you can coach somebody from point a to point b and as far as specific time or period, as where mentorship is, you know, I'm sharing my life experience with you. And, if things go well, we should be friends for, you know, forever, and you'll take that and reinvest in somebody else. And I I generally mentor about 6 people at a time or whatever.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Various things. Still have some that, call me from the military, but it's huge. And talk about the educational space. I can see where mentorship and coaching is missing. I don't know if it's because of funding or, you know, connect the dots, but mentors and coaches are always needed.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:I'm a mentor and a coach and I have a coach. So
Mike Coffey:Yeah.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Yeah. So you you it it all works together. It just opens you up to a, to be more of a broad thinker. You'll learn things that you wouldn't ordinarily learn, especially when you're talking to a mentor. And the communication is enhanced by sitting there talking to somebody that has more knowledge, wisdom, and experience in whatever you you're talking about.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:So that's an added benefit. And I know I've never worked in a corporate organization other than, you know, I was in the military, but the
Mike Coffey:It doesn't get much more regimented than that
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:though, does it? Yeah. So the the, the fact that people are gonna say, Well, I don't have enough time to be a mentor. The organization needs to figure that out so you can build that within the scope of of of a individual's job. And, that would help tremendously, because you don't want to hire someone and send them out there on without much experience and make things worse, you know, could mess up your brand.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Or, you know, it could turn the individual to where they don't like working there anymore because they don't have enough help or they don't it was a bad experience.
Mike Coffey:And and that's, you know, when we're talking about impacting the community, you know, making that investment in in somebody to to set them up with a mentor, that's gonna make a giant impact on how your company is perceived in that person's circle. You know, you know, they look over and they say, you know, old Johnny was a knucklehead, and they hired him. And and, you know, I've watched him grow in this role, and, you know, he's got this mentor who's made a difference in his life, and and that's all because he took this job at this company. They're gonna remember that company in a positive way. Just like when people of your generation or my generation hear Tylenol, the first thing we think is the tampering scandal in 85 and how well Johnson and Johnson handled that, that crisis.
Mike Coffey:But we'll always remember whenever we hear about tampering pills or anything like that, we're gonna think of Tylenol. And I think that's the same way goes for and I'm sure Johnson and Johnson wants me to just quit using that example. But, but I'm sure the, the reality is is that in the community, whatever community you're in, the people around know who's benefited from from those kind of programs, and they're gonna think more highly of you. And you are, and it sounds real self serving for the employer to say that. Right?
Mike Coffey:You know, I want people to like our company. I want, you know, people to buy from us. I want them to support us. But at the same time, it's also giving back into the community. So it's not just a one-sided transaction.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Absolutely. And I I I like the analogy you used with little Johnny because my experience has been once I mentored little Johnny, he takes it upon himself to start mentoring other people. And if it's done properly, the person that he mentors will mentor someone else. And so you have that false force multiplier effect, and everybody has benefited from it. Everybody's happy about it.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:And it's just, you know, it's a it's a game changer like you said. It's really a game changer.
Mike Coffey:We are right up on our half hour. Any last thoughts about, how a a company can, meet its responsibility and build, you know, support in their community?
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Just come out boots on the ground, upfront, open conversations, share information with the not only with the staff and the employees, but with the community as well. That goes a long ways of building that trust and that relationship. And when that happens, good things happen.
Mike Coffey:And we just scratched the surface of just really the the recruiting and the just, you know, to in general onboarding of an employee. So much more to talk about in the employee life cycle. So, with your permission, I wanna try to get you back on here, Kenneth, and we can finish that employee life cycle conversation.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Okay. Sounds good. I'm all about talent management as well. So perfect.
Mike Coffey:Well, thank you again for joining me, Kenneth.
Dr. Kenneth Nichols:Thank you for having me, Mike.
Mike Coffey:And thank you for listening. You can comment on this episode or search our previous episodes at goodmorninghr.com or on Facebook, Instagram, or YouTube. And don't forget to follow us wherever you get your podcast. Rob Upchurch is our technical producer, and you can reach him at robmakespods.com. And thank you to Imperative's marketing coordinator, Mary Anne Hernandez, who keeps the trains running on time.
Mike Coffey:And I'm Mike Coffey. As always, don't hesitate to reach out if I can be of service to you personally or professionally. I'll see you next week, and until then, be well, do good, and keep your chin up.