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Random people, random topics, talking on random sidewalks in the City of Saginaw, Michigan.
You ready to go?
Speaker 2:Alright. So is this live?
Speaker 1:Yeah. It is. It's live. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But Can you edit? Yeah. But it's record like, yeah. Of course, not gonna
Speaker 2:record it.
Speaker 1:I mean, sometimes I let the the first couple of seconds live be just because it's like homey, but this I won't because I'm about to slurp some coffee. Are you a coffee drinker?
Speaker 2:Love coffee. My favorite is mocha. Solid drink. See, drink.
Speaker 1:Love that you said that.
Speaker 2:Morning, but then it's like, okay, I need a mocha, like, during the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like a little, like, midday treat. I love that you said that because I used to be very elitist in in the coffee world. Like like, I wanted the best beans and the best grinder and those those fufu drinks are for other people, for peasants. And then I like, I had mocha and I was like, you know what?
Speaker 1:I've been missing out.
Speaker 2:I just I love it. I'm I'm like
Speaker 1:I need to humble myself and put some chocolate in there.
Speaker 2:See, I'm a chocolate fan. I love chocolate everything. Chocolate cake, chocolate ice cream, mocha.
Speaker 1:Yeah. All of
Speaker 2:it.
Speaker 1:I love it. Where do what like, where is your place?
Speaker 2:My place?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Where do I go? Yeah. Where do you go?
Speaker 2:You know, I really like Live Oak. Yeah. It's my favorite.
Speaker 1:I first
Speaker 2:out about it a couple years ago. Was this is at the time I was on my event.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Was that '22, I think, twenty three ish? And I went up to the Live Oak in Midland and I was like, oh my god. It's so cozy up here. Yeah. And then they came to Saginaw.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. So,
Speaker 2:yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Live Oak has a great vibe. The Live Oak crew, they're good people. They're like people first, coffee second, which I love. Gotta give a shout out to Red Eye because they're down the street.
Speaker 1:Love Red Eye. Love Live Oak. Great coffee places. Yeah. Local coffee is better.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:It's just better.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:No offense. You I won't name the malt mega chain.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But no offense to you guys, but local coffee is better coffee.
Speaker 2:Yes. It is. I love it.
Speaker 1:You, Alexandria, Renee, are you I was cruising social media Uh-huh. And I see your face on all these podcasts, and I was like, girl, I gotta talk to you. So so welcome to I mean, this is sidewalk talk. We're calling it sidewalk talks inside edition.
Speaker 2:Because I would not do it outside right now.
Speaker 1:So, like, sidewalk talks was is a great idea and I will continue it. But what I didn't account for was Michigan outside.
Speaker 2:I do not like the code.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So that we had the first blizzard and it was under 30 degrees and I said, yeah, this I don't know if this is gonna work.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. So I'm happy you moved it
Speaker 1:in. Yeah. So we're gonna go indoors. Healthier Me is the name of the podcast. Give me a little one zero one for the folks that haven't listened.
Speaker 2:Yes. Healthier Me is such a fabulous podcast. The idea came about, what, maybe, what was that, 2324? Look, I'm not good with time right now, but it came about because we wanted to open up conversations around people, who were on a health journey. So in Saginaw, what we learned in January 2024 at a press conference, it was Saginaw County Health Department, B.
Speaker 2:Will Saginaw and all the coalition partners. What we learned is that Saginaw ranked top, in obesity. So we were like ranked number one in the state. And so from there, the PR group within that, B. Will Saginaw from all the coalition partners, all of the PR people came together and we came up with ideas of what should we do?
Speaker 2:How do we get people to talk to their providers, work on their health, things like that. So from that, the idea came about with Reels, Instagram and then also podcasting. They knew I had my personal podcast and so they were like, okay, let's lean into this. And so I was like, hey, if you need a host like me. And that was crazy because I normally don't put myself out there like that.
Speaker 2:I get kind of nervous, but something just told me to just see what happens. And so they were like, okay. And so because I had built my own podcast and I knew like platform softwares to use, like equipment, Talking to you, you connected me to Renee from Live Oak, which connected me to Josh at the studio in Midland.
Speaker 1:Oh, cool.
Speaker 2:It was like those little steps and connections is how we landed in Atlanta
Speaker 1:to really? Do the
Speaker 2:So yeah. And then from there, figured out who to interview, reached out to people, then it was on and
Speaker 1:on I and love I love love the focus on health and specifically local health. Cause you can get all sorts of information on TikTok and Instagram, and it may or may not be good. Like I love the local people in the health field saying or I don't wanna say average citizens, but like just your regular people saying like like I am on my mental health journey. I I just love that. It like it hits different when you see, you know, Jimmy Green on a video going like mental health is important.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like the because who is this nameless faceless influencer? But when you see a friend, when you see somebody that you recognize saying like, hey, like this is important, it hits different.
Speaker 2:It does.
Speaker 1:So you it's your second season. Correct? You just launched your second season?
Speaker 2:Yep. We're launching well, yeah. We launched the second second season January 1.
Speaker 1:So talk to me about what season one was focused on. Talk to me about what season two will focus on.
Speaker 2:Yes. So in season one, it was all about that obesity conversation. I told you that Saginaw ranked number one. So the conversations were around health, fitness and we didn't care, you know, how you lost the weight or even if you lost the weight, just if you were maintaining a good health. And so all of the conversations centered around that.
Speaker 2:But what we learned in that first season was that there was always a mental health component or there was a maternal health factor. So it was a woman who had a baby and she was looking to bounce back and feel beautiful again. So we were seeing these little subsections of conversations happening even though we were focused on just becoming healthy as far as weight. And so from there, we went back to our coalition partners, the Be Well Saginaw coalition partners who are just different health agencies in Saginaw. So we went to a meeting, told them about having a second season and we wanted to lean into more of the maternal health conversation.
Speaker 2:But again, it went to maternal health, infant, mental, and then also now substance use, which is also a big factor in Saginaw. So we're really opening up the conversation to different people and by far I'm just, I love it.
Speaker 1:This is so great because, I used to be I used to be in the fitness industry. I was a CrossFit coach. And, that's exactly what I found. Like, come to the gym to quote, lose weight or get stronger. You know, what fill in the blank.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that's that's like the surface level thing. But there's always another element, there's another context, there's another struggle inside that's really the thing that you've gotta focus on. It's not it's not just losing weight. Well, why do you want to lose weight?
Speaker 1:It's because I don't feel good about myself. Well, why like, tell me more about that. And then you uncover these mental health struggles or I grew with a verbally abusive parent and that made fun of my weight all the time. And if you don't address that, like you can spend all the time you want in the gym and you might be successful, but the magic doesn't really happen until you also address that Yeah. Element.
Speaker 1:And so what you've really transitioned to in season two is that, like, season one, obesity, other chronic diseases, and then saying, well, let's let's uncover that a little bit more.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes. I love it so much. Exactly. Exactly. So you you've recorded all of the episodes for season two.
Speaker 1:Tell give us like a sneak preview of
Speaker 2:Yes. So the first episode that just went out was with Donna Clark. She's the
Speaker 1:Oh, she's so great.
Speaker 2:I think that's where I saw her I think that's where I first saw her on Facebook and it was because of the host you did. Yeah. And thank you because the conversation that you're doing and also Christiana at That's What She Said podcast. Yeah. Like so helpful and it helps people to learn about someone else's story.
Speaker 1:That's why We've got our own, like, little networks and I just I love that. Like, I'm constantly texting Christiana like, hey, I just met this woman. She's amazing. Please talk
Speaker 2:to her. Yeah. Yep. Exactly. And it's also helpful.
Speaker 2:So that's how I came across Donna Clark. The And crazy part was I would drop off stuff at a May's house. And so didn't know, you know, who the executive director was, but saw that post and I'm like, oh, I need to talk to her. And then saw that she was also on Christiana's show. And so I listened to that podcast and I mean amazing stuff.
Speaker 1:Donna Clark I am team Donna Clark for Oh my god. She's amazing. And the the entire crew at at Emmaus House, like, they're exactly the right people in exactly the right places working with the population that they should. It's incredible what they do at OMA.
Speaker 2:It's amazing. I was like, we have to kick the show off with her conversation. I'm learning so much with that, but I'll be honest, the stories around addiction are just so powerful to me. And so her story, and then we did another story with Demetrius Braddock and Also a great story. I'm like, what?
Speaker 2:Yes. Like how do you go from this to being a millionaire? Like, how?
Speaker 1:Literally living in abandoned houses, literally on the brink of death because of overdose, and he hears a knock on the door and here's his sister and she found like, for no reason they hadn't talked in years. Yeah. And here he is gateway
Speaker 2:to And that was similar to like Donna's story, like her reaching out to her sister. And it's just like, there's always someone who's just, they want to see the best out of you,
Speaker 1:you know?
Speaker 2:And it's just, you may not talk to them in a long time, but what I saw in their stories were kind of parallel as far as their sisters, you know, coming to their rescue. So just, I mean, beautiful conversations. I got to talk to Bob Johnson and we know he was a journalist at one point and it's like, okay, now you're in the PR field, but him writing the story on his granddaughter, infant death became something that he became more aware about. We were sending over press releases because I work over at CMU Health And so the whole safe sleep conversation is also happening too. So it was like all of these multiple conversations happening.
Speaker 2:So I'm well connected to Bob and I will send him press releases and I'm like, Hey, you need to do a story on this, on safe sleep infant. And then he got impacted by that. And so sometimes you don't understand the effects of certain things until you go through it. And I think once it happened, it was like, oh, this is a big deal. And it's a big deal especially among black infants.
Speaker 2:In Saginaw County, they have a higher rate of not making it past their first birthday over their white counterparts. So just, again, Talk to him, to Charles Allen, also a mental health advocate. His interview, so many highs and lows, but I love that he just starts to sing and I'm like, oh, I love it. I know.
Speaker 1:Charles, whenever I get to you on this, like you're gonna have to close with the song.
Speaker 2:He's have to.
Speaker 1:And I know you have it in your back pocket. He's he's such a great musician, such a great dude.
Speaker 2:He is. He is so blessed. Crazy part, met him in church when I was younger. So Oh, really? Went to the same church.
Speaker 2:So it's just like all of these, like, many connections
Speaker 1:that I mean, that's Saginaw.
Speaker 2:It
Speaker 1:is. That's it. I was I was talking to Jimmy Green the other day, and I was just like, of all the communities that I work with, when when something happens, like somebody makes a post on social media, like Saginaw social media, like every single person in the city has seen that or knows about it in thirty two minutes. It's the craziest thing. And you see the connection and that's because of the connections.
Speaker 1:Everybody went to church growing up or they went to the middle school or they hung out or whatever. And then you just grow up and those connections make more connections and now we have such a connected city.
Speaker 2:It's wild. We're all connected though, just period, like in life, you know?
Speaker 1:It's
Speaker 2:I think, what is it, the six degrees of separation? Yeah. Yeah. I always say like, I'm just a step away from meeting Issa Rae, who I just, you know, because I'm not a hairstylist, so I just feel like I'm just a step away, you know? I
Speaker 1:love it. You mentioned the stories of addiction being so powerful, and I love that you said that because I am obsessed with these stories of these people fighting, overcoming addiction because they are some of the most incredible stories that you can run across. So I just wanna give a shout out to anyone struggling, overcoming addiction, like, you are a rock star. Like, you are doing things that are inhuman, like like you are superhuman. Like, I'm thinking, Phil, like, don't eat that donut, and how hard that is.
Speaker 1:And then you take addiction and and substance misuse and things like that, and that is a completely different realm. And you have people like Donna Clark overcoming that and fighting that every day and helping other women to do it. And so many other people. And they just they need so much more credit than we give them. Like, culture and society loves to say like, it's your fault, you're a loser, you're nothing, you're a waste.
Speaker 1:And if they only knew, like if they only sat down for twenty minutes and talked to talk to people and and understood a fraction of their situation, their mind would be absolutely changed.
Speaker 2:And like you said earlier, I mean, it's it's there's always a root to it. Yeah. You know, like you don't just have an addiction. No. It started from something.
Speaker 2:And for me, I think with these stories, I'm always trying to find a root because most of the time I don't know these individuals, sometimes they're coming from a referral. And so, you know, then I make the contact of like, hey, you know, can you send over your bio or whatever? And they'll send it and it could be long, it could be short. And from that I have to come up with questions. I have no idea, like no idea.
Speaker 2:I don't go to their Facebook page to figure them out. And so when I'm reading the bio, it's like, don't know, feel like it's almost like a God thing where I'm praying about it, you know, to make sure that I have a good conversation and that it does what it's supposed to do. But as I'm reading it, it's like things that just start popping in my head and I'm like, oh. Like even with Donna's story, one thing that I had I did listen to her podcast before, but it was her going through her mother's death and then learning that she abandoned her children. And I was like, oh my God, was like a generational curse, you know, where they abandoned each other.
Speaker 2:And even though it was a death, hers was a physical thing where she's still alive, but I'm so proud of her because she came full circle and broke that curse. Like that's how I looked at it. And so, just those conversations and then just even talking to mothers, we had Indigo on the show and her being a first time mom and coming from the aspect of not having government assistance or not having, you know, yeah, government assistance. She didn't have it, but she found a community that was willing to help her and her husband. And so just, again, beautiful, beautiful conversations.
Speaker 1:You said you're trying to get to the root of things and that it's a God thing. I love that you say that because I'm of the firm belief after thousands of these conversations that the act of conversation, in person, face to face conversation is a spiritual experience. There's no other experience on Earth that can replace it, like that is like Like activities, sure. Like you can ride a bike, you can go for a run, you know, whatever. They're interchangeable.
Speaker 1:But like face to face human conversation, there's something that happens physiologically, spiritually, personally to people when they are face to face talking to each other, exposing who they are and this is why, this is what I'm struggling with, this is what I love to do. These are the things that are important to me. And things in you bubble up, and now you're thinking and you're saying things that you never have thought or of or and you feel yourself being changed. It's it's absolutely a spiritual experience. It is.
Speaker 2:Listening. I don't think enough people sit down to listen to people. Mhmm. You know? And so, yes, everything you just said, that that happens.
Speaker 1:I struggle with that because because I agree. We don't we're not listening. Like, we're not listening to each other. And you we only you'll only see that happening less and less. Like like, we're so obsessed with social media, and we're so obsessed with are constantly like having a hot take on everything.
Speaker 1:And we're essentially being told what to think constantly by like what political party we're affiliated with or, you know, and we're constantly like, putting things out. And I really struggle with that because I see that happening. And then when I try to put, like, my own thoughts out into the world, I feel really reluctant about that a lot of times because of, well, what am I really do like, am I just contributing more to this this noise? Like, who am I to say anything? Yeah.
Speaker 1:And of like, am I contributing to this epidemic of just not closing your mouth and listening to people? Do you ever feel that way?
Speaker 2:You know, I don't I feel like I don't post much. Yeah. I mean, I do feel that way though. It's like, I don't yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:People talk people talk a lot. Yeah. And that's yeah.
Speaker 1:That's that's kind of what I've learned in this is like like we gotta we gotta listen to each other more. You do. What in kind of circling back to the healthier me part of this, and then we'll probably blow it up to the generally the podcast part. But thinking about all the conversations that you've had in season one and now these ones that we're looking forward to in season two, are there things that you have learned health wise where there's there's been moments you've in conversation where you're like, oh my goodness, like, I didn't know that or I gotta file that away because I did that wrong or, I could I need to keep that in mind or that's such a useful tip.
Speaker 2:Oh, that is a great question. So I'll be honest, in season one
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I have biases against like the way you lose weight.
Speaker 1:Tell me more.
Speaker 2:Look, feel like I don't because I don't because like I don't wanna offend anybody. Yeah. But I had so I was in the military, right? And then eventually once I got out, I got big, I got big. And then I got back into the gym.
Speaker 2:Well, I got into the gym and then I lost weight. So I did it in a natural way. And so when I will hear stories of people and the way they lost weight, so whether that was a surgery or a shot or things like that, in my mind, I was like, oh, you're cheating.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And that and that is so offensive and I'm just
Speaker 1:And the conversation being honest. Right now about like GLP one and peptides and things like same.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's like, oh, you know, you didn't do it naturally, but it's whatever works for that person. And one of the conversations that I had in the first season, someone brought up food noise and I'm like, well, what does that mean? You know, and so what they were explaining is that there's this constant voice that's telling them to eat. And so similar to an addiction, right?
Speaker 2:It's something that's urging you to do something. And at the end of the day, we all have that little voice. Just tells you to do different things. Some people it's, you know, watching things that you shouldn't be watching. It could be, using substances.
Speaker 2:It could be just being on social media too long. We all have it. It's just in our own little way. So, you know, it made me look back and say, you know, this person, they Why does it matter how they did it? Like they feel healthy, they look beautiful, they're exercising, that's what they needed to do.
Speaker 2:My journey looks a little different. It's still hard, you know, because even with them, whether they had a surgery or took a shot, it was still a difficult decision to make and they still had to do therapy about it, mental health, they had to talk to someone, they had to get coached for this. So I'll be honest, that was my original thoughts years ago. I used to think like, if I try to go get lipo, then I'm not doing it right. Have to work out and you end up killing yourself and then you probably eating more because you're stressing yourself.
Speaker 2:So I'll be honest, that was something that I had to work through. As far as season two, I think it's just more, like I said, everything has a mental health component. So just listening to their stories, just, everybody's so different, but there's always that root. And when I think most of them have gotten to it and has worked on the healing or they're still in the healing process. So it's just been, it's been a journey for them and myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The Yeah. I'll I'll throw my head into that ring when when you said originally your perception was that these these other means other than diet and exercise or cheating. When it in my CrossFit like, if you know CrossFitters, they're they can be very elitist and like CrossFitter else, like I want to talk about CrossFit all the time. That was kind of my impression about like any other kind of fitness because I I believe that I had found this is the ultimate thing for everyone.
Speaker 1:And that was my perception at the beginning. And then as you become more health focused and a little less full of yourself, you realize like, are people getting healthier? Awesome. Like you want to go run marathons and that's your jam? Go go do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Please go do it. Yeah. Please go do it.
Speaker 2:I think I'll have that desire someday.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Not me. Like, you guys can have your marathons because that is not me. And then, also these these other means of weight loss and things like that, you know what? Like, are you taking steps to be healthier?
Speaker 1:Are you addressing other things other than just the health? Because that's true. Like, you can go to the gym too much. And like, well, we gotta address some mental health component there. Like, why do you feel compelled to be in the gym for four hours and it's unhealthy for you?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And what she said about there's always a mental health component, like it's in everything.
Speaker 2:Everything.
Speaker 1:Everything. You Is there I want to take this conversation to like a local focus. You you mentioned, Saginaw being number one in the state in terms of obesity?
Speaker 2:Yes. Yes. I can't I don't know for sure if there if that has changed, but in 2024, January '24, that was the announcement
Speaker 1:Yeah, by the that's also my understanding, that if it's not number one, it's in like the top three year or something like that.
Speaker 2:Very much so.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like Saginaw as a community is aware of that or is there a lot of work to do?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a great question. I'm hoping that they are becoming aware of it. Yeah. With the press conference, there was a lot of material that went out and then also that material was shared with the doctors. And so it was to open up the conversation around like your BMI and talking to your doctor about health.
Speaker 2:And it's crazy because it's such a sensitive topic for people.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:You know, to talk about your weight, but at the end of the day, you want to just have a healthier lifestyle so you can have a good quality of life. Like that's the main thing. I don't want to be 60 and I can't move, you know? So it's just really about the quality of life, which is why Healthier Me was developed as far as the show to talk to different people from their age groups, from race, whatever it was, it was to open that up. So we're hoping that the podcast is at least helping, but also that the providers are also doing the work with talking to their patients and then patients also being an advocate for themselves.
Speaker 2:Like no one's no one's coming to save you. You have to save yourself.
Speaker 1:That's true. So I'm kind of grappling with that right now as a dad, and I've got three kids and life is busy. And you just, like there's a little part of this sounds completely irrational, where there's a little part of you just like, hey, I just wish somebody else would adjust my health for me. Like, can somebody else work out for me? Or like, I wish I would just like be healthy.
Speaker 1:And I was having problems with my foot the other week and I was just like, dang, like Phil, you got you like the the only person that is going to save you is you. Like, you gotta you gotta do this. And I I agree so much. Like we have to be aware of it. Health also and Be Well is very understanding about this, is that health is also contextual.
Speaker 1:Like there's so many elements that contribute to health. It's like, yes, it's personal decisions and things like that, but it's also community in terms of poverty, in terms of access to healthy food, access to quality health care, like all of those elements. That's what I really love about Be Well is it understands that. Like, diet and exercise, so important. It will never not be important.
Speaker 1:We can't ever stop beating that drum. But we also have to take into account and address access to healthy food, healthcare, things We like need a team to be able to do that.
Speaker 2:Yes. And so on their website, they're actually, I think it's there, should be there, but it's a resource guide that lets people know, where they can go. We talking whether that's health, you know, different health agencies, I think it also lists Yeah. Food
Speaker 1:partners and things like that. So definitely go to our website, bewellsaginaw.org. I think I got that And if the website bounces, just Google B. Wells. So just the letter B and the word well all as one.
Speaker 2:Do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Because I think I think you're right. But just in case somebody's driving in their car and they look it up and like, This website Yeah. Is
Speaker 2:Google it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Google it. Google it. The this isn't your first podcast.
Speaker 1:The Healthier Me. No. Wait. Tell me about your first podcast.
Speaker 2:Okay. Let's get into it. Yeah. So it was called it's called Stay Dumb the Podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Explain the title to me.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. You got two ears, one mouth. It's about listening, you And so, just came up with dumb and I was just like, I was thinking about the word like, what does it mean? Because you know, could say dumb like you're dumb, whatever, but it's to be mute. And the way I took it is just like to be quiet, you know, and to listen.
Speaker 2:And so I just ran with the name Stay Dumb and it was, something that people did not like because I had a whole event and it was called Stay Dumb, the fitness experience. I had the networking I
Speaker 1:remember that. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And a lot of like I got some pushback.
Speaker 1:Because they didn't wanna be dumb?
Speaker 2:They didn't wanna be dumb. You know, and they wasn't listening. They wasn't listening. That was the problem. They would have went to the website and actually read, you know, it meant.
Speaker 2:But yes, I, just had that name and it was, the motto was say less, listen more. And so that podcast, when did I kick that? I don't even know. Guys, it's 2026 now, time is going too fast. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But kicked that off a couple years ago and it was something that I had always wanted to do. I always wanted to have a podcast, was always too scared, honestly.
Speaker 1:So Scared why?
Speaker 2:Putting myself out there. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I don't know what it is. The PR world and public relations are always behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:So you're writing the press releases, you're having the conversation with media, but you're behind the camera. So you can kind of like control the other person who's, you know, from your organization and tell them what to say and it feels so empowering. But when you tell me to get in front of a camera, I'm like, no. I am so scared. And so, even being on this right now, I know I've gotten better.
Speaker 2:I know I've gotten
Speaker 1:You're so good. You look charming and you hear
Speaker 2:Yeah. Whole mind is like, okay, what is he gonna say? I need to figure it out. So yeah, but wanted to start it and finally did I would go on live like on Facebook live, old a friend of mine, we would do it. And I was so happy that I had that little bit of experience of just going on Facebook live.
Speaker 2:I used to literally get scared. Mind you, I'm putting the camera up in my house and I would be like, wait, oh my God, like I'm so scared. And then after a while, you just have to do the reps. You gotta put them in. And so started doing it, started feeling a little bit more comfortable.
Speaker 2:We stopped doing the show and then I was like, okay, you you got podcast equipment. What are you gonna do with it? Are you it's go time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You either gotta do it or sell it.
Speaker 2:You gotta do it or sell it. Yeah. Yeah. And I wasn't selling it.
Speaker 1:So, I tell people that are like, people that are like, oh, man, I've been thinking about doing this podcast for years and years and years. And and the one piece of advice I give give to them is book your first five guests. Don't worry about equipment if you don't have it, just record the audio on your phone. Book your first five guests, do the first five episodes, put them out into the world. And if you like it, cool.
Speaker 1:But if if you don't, you don't have to waste another three years like wondering, should I start this podcast or not? Because we were talking about before recording, it's so much more than just having a fun conversation with friends or with experts or people that you admire.
Speaker 2:It is so much more. It's a lot of work.
Speaker 1:So much more work.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of work.
Speaker 1:But you where do you record your podcasts?
Speaker 2:So I was recording them at home. I've stopped recording them once, I started doing Healthier Me. Like once that kind of kicked off and I was putting more of my time and plus working nine to five, you know, I leaned more into the healthier me conversation, but at home I just would connect my equipment to my computer and I would just, record myself. It was, just me talking, giving advice, encouragement. And then, I did do a few episodes with guests and so I would go meet with them and set up a camera and this right here is a lot of work.
Speaker 1:It's And I was so much
Speaker 2:not on video side, I'm a photographer. So, you know, I could take a picture but setting up video equipment and one time I did a whole conversation with someone and I mean, we're going. At the end of it, like the camera just I was like, oh my god. Whole conversation just gone away. No.
Speaker 2:I was like, no, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing this. I gotta I gotta find someone who I can just who can produce it. Yeah. That'd be that.
Speaker 2:Who produces Healthier Me? JNC Media.
Speaker 1:Let's give them a shout out. Yes. Tell me about JNC. Yes. Because I don't know you guys and we should meet up soon, but talk to me.
Speaker 2:I told him off camera that you guys need to connect. So it's Josh in China. So that's it. And why didn't I know it was I didn't realize this until last year and I was like, wait. Where's that
Speaker 1:J and C? That's the J
Speaker 2:and C. So it's Josh and Chyna. They are a married couple. Josh handles the video, Chyna does the photography, but, so Josh basically produces this show. And so we go to his studio, which is in Midland.
Speaker 2:So if you've been to the Live Oak in Midland, you will see that it's a big building with different businesses inside one building and the studio is located there. So like I said, because of Phil, I met the owner of Live Oak and then she took me on a tour and that's how I met Josh and I was originally thinking about doing Stay Dumb podcast there. So when the I was like, okay, I can't pay you. I don't, you know, I don't have any sponsorships or anything. And so, the opportunity came around for Healthier Me and I was like, oh, there's an organization I can pay and I can go there.
Speaker 2:So it just everything is always connected.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's the way to do it. Yeah. I wanna give props to J and C because like, like Healthier Me, Logan Rachetty, Talk Midland, there. And then, like Adam Whitbro, I think I'm saying your last name.
Speaker 1:Right, bro? Like, every every everybody's producing their podcasts there. And I and I just I really love that. And I guess that's my piece of advice to to folks. Like, if you can hack it and you can pay them, please pay them Because you get to you get to sit down, you get to do the fun part, and you don't have to worry about the part that that bulldozes everybody that's trying to do the podcast thing.
Speaker 1:Because now, like, how do I pull the files from these cameras? And what about the audio? And I screwed this up. And now it takes you eight hours to edit one one episode, and you haven't even made those promo clips, and marketing is 99% of it. So, like, pay somebody else to do like, if you can, pay somebody else to do it.
Speaker 1:J and C, they do a great job.
Speaker 2:Great job. I love them over there. So
Speaker 1:nice. Give me more tips. Like if somebody's listening to this and they're saying, man, I have this great idea for this podcast, nobody else is doing it. What have you learned along this journey of being a podcaster?
Speaker 2:Oh, whatever. So I can call myself that, I can call Oh, man. A You just have to do it. Like what I have learned is that you and it's simple, but life is really simple. If you make it simple, do it.
Speaker 2:So if you do have the equipment, plug it in, figure it out, start learning it. If you don't, like feel sick, grab your phone and start recording. Just start recording yourself. Get on live, get on Facebook, get on Instagram and talk. I had someone reach out to me a couple years ago and they were like, okay, I see you're doing this and I wanna speak too.
Speaker 2:Like they, I guess wanted to be a speaker. Well, you have to speak. So like, how can anyone book you if you're not doing it, if they don't see anything? So sometimes it's just as simple as turning on your phone and speaking, talk about something, whatever you're passionate about, because why would I hire you to speak if I don't even know what you're gonna speak about? So you just have to start somewhere and make it simple for yourself.
Speaker 2:Sometimes we just over complicate things and we make it this big thing. I don't care if you're starting a business, whatever it is, where can you start right now? Mhmm. Like, take like Terry DePerrin, I just love him. He always say take the first step.
Speaker 2:Yep. Like, what's what's the first step? Take the first step. So that's my advice. And I I think it's really simple.
Speaker 2:Don't don't overcomplicate it.
Speaker 1:That's such great advice because yesterday I was thinking about this to myself. It's like, do like, am I a writer or do I do do I love the idea of being a writer? And I think sometimes, and I'm not calling anybody out except for myself right now, sometimes I'm really in love with the idea of something, but I'm not really that. Because I'm not actually doing that. Like, if you're if you say I'm a public speaker and you don't public speak, you're not that.
Speaker 1:Like, you you love this idea of being a public speaker and one day you might be one, but if you're not actually doing it, you're not actually doing it. Yeah. And then, like, this podcast realm kind of falls into that sometimes. We like, we love the idea of being a podcaster. We love the idea of having a show having and great conversations, and I and that's great.
Speaker 1:But unless you actually do it, you're not that. So I love this advice. Like, don't overcomplicate it. Like, rent CMURC has a booth that you can rent out hourly, and you you use their equipment. You don't pay anybody to produce anything.
Speaker 1:It's they've got all the stuff. You just run it out for an hour, and you you've got kind of the the at least the audio gear that I have, and you just record it. And you just gotta do it. You just Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do it. Do it. Do it. Just do
Speaker 1:it. I
Speaker 2:think Nike said it best.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Talk to me. I wanna talk to you about the PR thing. Yeah. Because, like, I'm in more of the marketing world.
Speaker 1:PR is similar Mhmm. To communications and marketing, but in a little bit, like, different niche y thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So so first tell me, like, what do you do in PR? Like, what's the goal of PR? And then I kinda wanna break it down to, like, PR tips because, like, like, we've got a lot of Saginaw business owners listening to to this show. We've got people that are public facing in some kind of way. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And I just I just wanna say there's a lot of education in public relations that needs to happen.
Speaker 2:Oh my god. Thank you for saying that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, I'm throwing shade at anybody, like I'm not but there's a lot of learning that we need to do. So first, tell me tell me what's the goal of PR and then we're gonna break it down a little bit.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I'll be honest with you. When I first started off, I didn't understand what it was either. So I have to tell you, go back a little bit. I was in the military and I was a public affairs specialist.
Speaker 2:Basically it was a journalist for the military and all we're doing is communicating a message on behalf of the organization. So if you think about public relations and like journalism work, so you think about your Saginaw News, these are journalists, they cover stories on anything and everyone, right? A PR person covers a story based on the organization that they work for or brand or person. So that's basically it. You're just communicating a message to the public.
Speaker 2:You're building up that credibility, you are establishing a voice, a brand, and building up trust. So that's really what public relations is in this most simplified way.
Speaker 1:Also want to say too, and this is going to sound, this could sound gross to people, but hopefully not. There's also an element of, I don't want to say controlling because it's not that, and you can't control it necessarily, but like steering public perception of things. So, and I'm going to say more about that just because it does sound gross coming out of my mouth, but like, if you're not telling your story, if you're not getting the message out there, if you're not communicating, there's a vacuum that is going to be filled by somebody else telling your story for you. And like small businesses fall into this all the time. And like we're talking about, there's education.
Speaker 1:Well, small businesses say like, I'm gonna bake my cookies and they're really, really great cookies and that's all I need to do is bake the cookies. But if there's not a marketing piece, if there's not a conscious effort to relate to the public, that one bad review on Facebook just it has so much more power than if you nurtured that trust, that relationship with the public, because now that one bad review gets swamped out by 20 people going like, bro, you were completely off your rocker. These are the best cookies I've ever had. And so like there's an element of like you've got to feed you've got to tell your story to the public so that they understand what the truth is. And you can use that you can use PR in a gross way.
Speaker 1:Like it can be propaganda. You can. It can be absolutely propaganda. But if you're telling the truth, I think that's such an important part of PR, like you're telling your story.
Speaker 2:Yes. And that's what it is. You are telling your story and be in control of that. Don't let no one else tell your story for you. And just even in life, to me that's a life message as well.
Speaker 2:True. But yes, as you said with businesses and just using that as an example, I mean, there's so many businesses that can get a bad review. And then if you're an owner and you're going back and forth with this bad review, oh my god. Like, no go. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So if you have a publicist or a PR manager, they will tell you not to even respond. Don't respond to it.
Speaker 1:I heard the phrase, if you're explaining, you're losing.
Speaker 2:You are. Yeah. You know, and it just depends. And when I say don't respond, it just depends on what was said. True.
Speaker 2:If you know this person came into your establishment, depending on the circumstance, you have to use a level of judgment. Always apologize, you know, like definitely apologize, try to correct it if you can, but don't feed into it. Like you said, don't go back and forth. Just don't. Try to correct it, apologize and try to correct it if it can be corrected.
Speaker 2:But it's there's so many negative reviews and I don't know what it is about the human brain. We can get the 20 good ones, but we focus on the negative one. And it's just, again, that's also on a human level, not just PR, focus on the good too.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's, in the brain it's called negativity bias. So if you come from like a belief in evolutionary background, it's or even just survival, take evolution out of it. The idea that it's more important for you to be aware of risk than it is for reward, because if I'm in danger, my life could end. And so the brain is constantly searching for things that put me in danger.
Speaker 1:If there's food on the table constantly, like I don't have to worry about it. Like I don't to spend calories thinking about food that's in my refrigerator because I know it's always going to be there. But your brain is constantly searching for risk. And so now in the modern world where we're not hiding in bushes and we're not out trying to survive on the plains or whatever it is, we look at negative comments and interactions with people as threats and as a
Speaker 2:risk. And
Speaker 1:so the brain and that's why like negative news is so popular, like people are infatuated with negative news. Like why is that? Why are pages dedicated to negativity a 100 times more popular than pages that aren't? It's physiologically where it has a gravitational pull that positive things just don't.
Speaker 2:Very true.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That is so true.
Speaker 2:Do you
Speaker 1:see do you see more things happening on like social media, either from business owners or from folks or even individuals, like from a PR perspective that are just like your your your sirens go off. Like, no, bro, like, isn't what you do. Like, are you saying like like constantly engaging with negative reviews and comments and things like that? That is a no no. Do you see it?
Speaker 2:I don't remember it was a business and they would just, oh, the business owner would just grind my gears and he would just go back and forth and I'm like, I should have reached out. I don't know. But then I didn't want to say anything. You just sit back and watch
Speaker 1:it, right? Think the point is like, like you're not gonna win. Like like you're not gonna win. And the goal is to either break even or win. And so if you if you enter into a game where I I sometimes explain it to people like you're not having the same conversation they're having.
Speaker 1:And so it doesn't make sense to talk. Like sometimes when I'm criticized online, like a lot of times it's like, I can have a conversation with you, but you don't really want to talk about this. Like you you're
Speaker 2:You just want to vent.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Or you want to make me look stupid or there's a bigger issue that you're trying to speak to and I'm the target of it, like and so if I jump in and we try to have these conversations, we're we're speaking essentially different languages. Yes. So in a business, when somebody has in in the comments and they're real going to town on this business, like, they're having a completely different conversation. Like, you're trying to protect your business and you're trying to explain and you're trying to defend your reputation.
Speaker 1:Yes. You're speaking a different language and all you're doing is giving ammunition and you're feeding these fires and things like
Speaker 2:Just don't. Yeah, don't participate.
Speaker 1:And if you do want to go back and forth, just say like, hop in those comments and say like, I've read your feedback, I'm sending you a direct message and we can talk there. Try to keep it private.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And then if they're like, well, this is public and I want this like, you don't have to play that game. Go back to baking your cookies and bake some really great cookies.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I think it was Drake. He said, if anything negative comes his way, he just waits seventy two hours and then it just goes away and it really does. Eventually the fire will settle.
Speaker 2:Just don't, again, it just depends on the circumstance and if you do need help, you can reach out to someone like me, PR manager or just anybody else, you know. But if if it's something that can't be fixed, fix it. Apologize.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Correct it.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:If they if you got the meal wrong. And the funny part is that people could get a meal wrong at a bigger chain restaurant.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Probably won't complain.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You're gonna go back but for some reason with a local person, you just it irritates me but that's on the the other side of the business owner.
Speaker 1:Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. But yeah, you control what you can control which is my awesome, my favorite model. Control what you can control. Apologize. Correct it.
Speaker 2:Like you said, take it offline. If you can, go to a direct message if this is on social media. And if not, if they don't want to, keep keep going about your day.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I and and I also wanna speak some life into some businesses or businesses that that have experienced this or you absolutely will. Like, if you make food or if you sell a thing, people are gonna come for you. It doesn't matter if it's the best thing in the world. Like, they're gonna come for you.
Speaker 1:And I, a bunch of years ago was, I came across this business that like, I'm not going to tell this story because it's going to be too identifying. But I will say, the thing like sometimes you're going to get feedback like this and you're going to think, this is going to end my business. I'm going to go out of business. This is destroying everything that I've worked for in my entire life, my life savings, like my business is going to close tomorrow. And I'm going to tell you right now, it is not.
Speaker 1:Like, it is not. Are you a good person, working hard, being healthy, like health conscious, like you're not making people sick with your food? Like are you trying and you're running a good business? You will survive. You will absolutely survive and you will likely thrive if you just keep going.
Speaker 1:But it's easy to look at these comments and say like, my entire life is over. And it's not.
Speaker 2:It's
Speaker 1:not. Are businesses a thousand times worse than yours that are still in business today and take heart in that.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yes. Especially the bigger companies, which had some major crisis communication things happening. So yes, they're still here. So you can survive it.
Speaker 2:It's just let the time pass.
Speaker 1:Are there PR tips that you say like people really gotten to know this or this is a mistake that I see a lot of folks make?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think, I don't know if it's a PR tip or a business tip, but I think in business, what I noticed with small business owners is that you think you can do it all yourself and you can't. Focus on your passion and allow someone else who is specialized in their work to help you. That's the only way you're gonna scale and grow. You cannot do it all on your own.
Speaker 2:It is just way too tough. Like I told you with this podcast, if I just kept trying to record it myself, too time consuming. I got a place I can go to that records it now. So look for people who are in different specialties. Again, maybe not a PR tip, but it's a business tip that will help.
Speaker 2:But I also encourage people to look into PR. Yes, you can do it on your own. You can find connections and, you know, figure out the journalist that's in your community, try to build a relationship with them and send out a press release or just even an email. You can do those things, but again, hiring help will be so beneficial for you because you don't have to worry about that. Also I would say as far as PR tips, some people will ask, well, how much should I pay for this type of service?
Speaker 2:Whether that's PR or marketing. You want to, I would say you should have built that when you did your business plan, but sometimes people skip the business plan, which is okay. Look at the revenue that you're bringing in and they'll say, I mean, there are different numbers that you can Google, but maybe upwards to maybe 10% to 15% of what your revenue is and allocate that for your marketing. So whatever your business is making for the year, just kind of figure out a number of what you would be willing to invest into a marketing plan because it is necessary if you want to grow. And also what I ask people too, I just, it's almost all this stuff is coming to my head right now, but their goals, like what's your goal?
Speaker 2:What is the end goal? And this is for me, I think it's life and business, but what's the end goal of this? You built this business, Where are we going? I need to know that because I need to know what story I'm going to tell people about you if I'm working with you. But where are we going?
Speaker 2:Where do you see yourself in the future? What is maybe that end goal, but what's also the five year plan? And some people will say, well, I wanna become a franchise owner. I want this. What I do then if they do decide to work with me is I build up a, it's like a PR proposal.
Speaker 2:And a part of that is a SWOT analysis. And so what I do is I'll compare them to their competitors in their field because we all essentially have competitors. And I will say, well, this is what they're doing. And you told me you want to get here. So we need to create a plan.
Speaker 2:And sure enough, again, that's business, but it's also marketing because we need to make sure that our goals align and that we can make a good timeline within that campaign. So a lot of stuff there, but yeah.
Speaker 1:I love it all because it connects so much. It connects so well to what we're talking about with Healthier Me because there's so many correlations, like your advice of just do it. Like in business and PR, like you gotta do the thing, otherwise you're not doing the thing. Well, same thing with health. Like if you're struggling with your mental health, you got you got to do something.
Speaker 1:Do something. Like, you got to do something. And I'm I'm I'm gonna just speak somewhat vulnerably as somebody also with those struggles. You sitting in your room, wherever it is, in your own head, you know, you're not getting the help that you need.
Speaker 2:Mm-mm.
Speaker 1:You're not getting the help that you need. And whether that help comes in the form of therapy, or in being physically active, or a good friend or just being more socially connected or like all of these healthier ways to help yourself, like, those are concrete steps. And I'm gonna tell you they they are so scary, and it's very, very hard. And the longer that you're stuck in the struggle, the harder it is to get out of there. But you got you have to break the loop.
Speaker 1:You have to break the loop, and you just do it. Like, I use this example. I was, the Saginaw County Health Department building had the mural with the birds. Kevin Burdick painted it. And it was kind of this symbolism of people struggling with with substance use.
Speaker 1:And so I did a series of interviews on the focus group that they brought together to kind of inform this piece of art. And this woman I interviewed, she was telling me her story of addiction and it was 2020 and she everything was shut down and she moved into a hotel. And she said, I knew when I moved into that hotel, I wasn't going to walk out of
Speaker 2:it. And
Speaker 1:I asked her why. And she said, you know, the, drugs are a challenge, but what kept me in that hotel was shame. It wasn't the drugs. It was the shame of talking to somebody about what I was doing. Like I knew it was wrong.
Speaker 1:I knew it was going to kill me. I knew it destroyed my life. And the weight of that shame prevented me from getting the help I needed. And so I moved into this hotel by myself because I needed to die alone in my shame. And she said the thing that saved her was the shutdown.
Speaker 1:Because when twenty '20 happened, and no longer could you meet in person with therapists, everybody started pivoting really hard to like better help and these remote therapy options. And she said she came across this advertisement for a text based substance use help. And she said, If I had to even call a therapist, I couldn't have done it. It was too much shame. But the fact I could text somebody and say, I need help, was the one little step that she needed.
Speaker 1:And she took that one little step and then she moved to remote therapy and then she moved to group therapy, peer recovery. She met somebody in that pure recovery group that eventually gave her a house and she was now living in this house. And so like you just please just take the little smallest little step. Like, go for a walk around the block that you've never done before. Like, you've gotta just do it.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. So you have to do it. Have the the fact it's an investment. Like, health is an investment. Like, the wheels aren't gonna fall off tomorrow, but they're gonna fall off in five years and ten years and now you're in trouble.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then having a goal, like, what is your goal? And what is your real
Speaker 2:goal? What is the real goal? Yeah. And I like, I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2:I love having those conversations with And it's so crazy. I was like, probably should charge. Because they get they, people just open up so much, even in that field of just PR and I'm talking about their business. Some you learn like this isn't really my passion, I really wanna do this. And I'm like, well why are you doing this?
Speaker 2:And you know, and so then it's like you're having almost a therapy session at that point. But yeah, I really love this work and I didn't understand it before because I just, again, was a public public affairs journalist or just writing stories. And so when I went off to college, I'm like, I'm just gonna be a journalist. But honestly, was scared. I was scared.
Speaker 2:I was like, I don't want to write a story and go find a story. I'm nervous about that. And then someone came in, says, switch it to public relations. I didn't have an idea. Start Googling.
Speaker 2:I'm like, I was the same. I'm just covering I'm the organization. I'm working for this organization and I'm putting their message out. Like that's all it is. I don't have to cover everybody's, I'm just covering theirs.
Speaker 2:And so I think another tip as far as public relations go, is understanding is you telling the story. So you can tell your story through social media that you control and own through your website, through videos, whether you're doing reels, TikToks, YouTube channel, it's everything that you control and the messaging you put out.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So that is essentially what the overall PR public relations goal is.
Speaker 1:I love it. If people want to find Healthier Me podcasts, where do they watch it? Where do they listen to it?
Speaker 2:YouTube, Apple, and Spotify, and anywhere else you can listen to a podcast. So understand podcast, I wanna I wanna put this out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:A podcast is audio, y'all. It's audio. So it is a podcast, but it's also, you can watch the videos on YouTube. Yeah. So yes, YouTube and then also Apple and Spotify, and then just go to be well, off.
Speaker 2:Go to their website.
Speaker 1:Do it. Yeah. And then if folks are intrigued by this PR marketing that you do, where do they find information about that?
Speaker 2:Yes. So currently I do work at CMU Health as a marketing specialist. Been working on safe sleep campaigns. So if you, need a doctor, definitely come over to CMU Health. But also, I own Rewrite Media.
Speaker 2:So you can go to rewrite, rerite.co, and that's my website, and we can connect. If you're looking for some public relations help and you want some management, come talk to me.
Speaker 1:Do it. Well, it's been so great talking to you, Alexandria. So glad that we are able to chat. Me too. It's been a few years since we chatted.
Speaker 1:But like I said before, we've been kind of keeping keeping in the know about what each other is doing. So I'm I'm excited for season two of Healthier Me. I'm excited for your PR stuff. I'm excited to see where where you you go personally. You're killing it with safe sleep campaign at senior because I see it everywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I also think about like, oh, I screwed that up.
Speaker 2:Like Look, we all
Speaker 1:have. Yeah. We all have. We're all trying hard. But you're you're trying hard for Saginaw and I know I just love it.
Speaker 1:So thanks so much for for the conversation.
Speaker 2:Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 1:You're awesome. I'm good.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy. Yay. I felt like I was like I'm like, I'm really leaning on the mic.