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Summary: In this insightful episode, Elizabeth Stephenson, Sarah Hink, and Jen Bordeaux from New Direction Family Law discuss essential tips and advice for anyone preparing to go to court. Drawing from their extensive experience, they provide practical do’s and don’ts to help listeners present themselves effectively and navigate the courtroom with confidence. The episode covers everything from appropriate attire and punctuality to emotional control and the importance of honesty.
Key Points:
- Introduction and Overview (00:00:00)
- Hosts introduce themselves and the topic of the episode.
- Elizabeth and Sarah share their extensive courtroom experiences.
- Courtroom Etiquette: Do's and Don'ts (00:01:18)
- Importance of dressing appropriately for court.
- Avoiding casual attire such as running shorts, flip-flops, and tank tops.
- Respect and Behavior in Court (00:02:12)
- Respecting the judge and courtroom officials.
- Do not interrupt the judge or make inappropriate gestures.
- Punctuality is Key (00:06:00)
- Always arrive on time for court hearings.
- Plan your route and parking in advance to ensure timely arrival.
- Emotional Control (00:05:19)
- Importance of maintaining composure and controlling emotions in court.
- Avoid eye-rolling, sighing, and other negative expressions.
- Preparation and Honesty (00:12:12)
- Being prepared with all necessary documents well in advance.
- Always be honest with your attorney and in court to avoid damaging your case.
- Courtroom Procedures and Expectations (00:14:53)
- Understanding the flow of a court case and what to expect.
- The significance of hearing prep meetings and following your attorney’s guidance.
- Children in Court (00:10:41)
- Avoid bringing children to court unless absolutely necessary.
- Impact of childcare challenges for low-income families attending court.
- Community and Judicial Support (00:16:14)
- Appreciation for the judicial community and legal professionals.
- The importance of respecting the legal process and the roles of everyone involved.
- Conclusion and Final Thoughts (00:17:08)
- Encouragement to follow the discussed tips for a smoother court experience.
- Mention of New Direction Family Law's TikTok account for more insights.
Resources Mentioned:
- New Direction Family Law TikTok account for additional tips and insights.
Call to Action:
- Follow New Direction Family Law on TikTok for more helpful content.
- Reach out to your attorney with any questions or for further guidance on preparing for court.
Creators & Guests
Host
Guest
What is Ex-it Strategy?
Your no bullsh$t guide to divorce with experienced attorneys from New Direction Family Law and guests and professionals who have been there. Unfiltered discussions to help you move from victim to victorious and from bitter to better.
[00:00:00]
[00:00:18] Elizabeth Stephenson: Hi everyone. It's Elizabeth Stevenson with New Direction Family Law.
[00:00:23] Sarah Hink: And attorney Sarah Hink, Elizabeth Law partner, a new direction, family law, and partner in crime. I don't think we have any outstanding
[00:00:29] Elizabeth Stephenson: warrants out there, but
[00:00:30] Sarah Hink: no, not yet. Although if you
[00:00:32] Elizabeth Stephenson: call,
[00:00:32] Sarah Hink: they will not tell you to do you that. If you do, the only way to find out is to go to the detention Detention center.
[00:00:38] Elizabeth Stephenson: It's
[00:00:38] Sarah Hink: a trap though. Don't do
[00:00:39] Elizabeth Stephenson: it. We'll do it. Well stay away. Sorry. You know, we've been in, I had been in court like almost every day. I think it's January. It's, you know, it's a little court. Yeah, that's a lot of court. Everybody's been in court, everyone's been busy. So we just wanna, what do we wanna chat about today, Jen?
[00:00:53] That has to do with
[00:00:54] Jen Bordeaux: court. Hi, I'm Jen. Not an attorney, but the, or have any warrants that I'm aware of. We are gonna talk about some do's and don'ts of court and they may seem very basic and like common sense, but as we know, not everyone was blessed with common sense. No. So yeah, so we're just gonna go through some things that we see pretty commonly or that you guys see pretty commonly just to help some folks out that again.
[00:01:18] Might seem like it should be known, but I will say, I mean, court can be
[00:01:21] Sarah Hink: scary if you think about it, especially it, you're going absolutely with like your children on the line, your finances is on the line. It's scary. That is like terrifying. So I tell a client
[00:01:29] Elizabeth Stephenson: like, if you're not scared and nervous, I worry, that worries me more than if you are because you should be.
[00:01:34] Yeah. And I always
[00:01:35] Sarah Hink: have to check myself because we go to court so often, right. It's like, you know, other day for us. I know it
[00:01:39] Jen Bordeaux: is very intimidating. I mean, I just went up to watch one of our attorneys, Chris Hicks, in a. Trial and with a jury trial. And I was nervous just walking in and I hadn't done anything wrong, nor was, I like, understand, you know?
[00:01:51] I
[00:01:51] Elizabeth Stephenson: know, but it's like I could, here's one, don't. I could start that on our list, but that's okay. Bonus, getting on off the elevator, down on the fifth floor, which is civil, domestic. Mm-Hmm. Violence or that court is, and then I went up to, down to child support in custody and this woman has a pair of like running shorts on a flops and a tank top.
[00:02:12] Yeah. Walking into the courtroom. It's like, man. Don't do that. Don't
[00:02:17] Sarah Hink: do
[00:02:17] Elizabeth Stephenson: that. That is on our list. Do wear appropriate attire. That is on our list. That's a do. Yes. And you think, you know, and I'm, you know, I'm like, if you, whoever wants to, whatever anybody wants to wear or wear, you wanna wear, but you gotta go in there making a good impression.
[00:02:29] You don't have to wear suit or business attire, but, but on a pair of slacks or Yeah. You know, a nice dress or It's good
[00:02:36] Sarah Hink: advice. But I was in child support enforcement this morning, so also on the fifth floor. Yeah. And you know, there's a lot of low income people there, underst. And you see a lot of that entire understand.
[00:02:44] So it's kinda like, then I like I look at everyone and I'm like, oh shit, I hate that we're all here today. I hate these people are having to be here today. They're missing work to be here and case gets continued.
[00:02:53] Elizabeth Stephenson: I'm just saying that I get it. But from a judge's perspective, I mean, you wanna go in there looking as best you can.
[00:03:01] Especially you can afford an attorney. Afford an attorney. That's right. So you probably
[00:03:04] Sarah Hink: afford some
[00:03:04] Elizabeth Stephenson: slacks. So that's the salt. And then don't wear your hat, you know? Take your hat off.
[00:03:07] Sarah Hink: Take your hat off. Be
[00:03:08] Elizabeth Stephenson: respectful. Don't. You know, if the bailiff tells you to take your hat off or turn your phone off, take your hat off, or turn your phone off.
[00:03:15] Mm-Hmm. You know, kind of thing. So, I mean, that's, that's all.
[00:03:19] Sarah Hink: And it's a, it is a little bit like tv. There's not a jury most of the time in the cases we do. No. But it's a, what we call a bench trial. So it's bench trial.
[00:03:27] Elizabeth Stephenson: Judge Judy, judge Judy Judge. So-and-so is sitting up there in a black robe and that's the only person that matters, has any say so in that whole courtroom.
[00:03:36] Yep. You know, so. You smile and you say, yes sir. No ma'am. You know,
[00:03:41] Sarah Hink: you do not interrupt them. You
[00:03:42] Elizabeth Stephenson: do not.
[00:03:43] Sarah Hink: Lord have mercy. I cannot interrupt them. I No, you do not want to.
[00:03:48] Jen Bordeaux: What, so have you, I mean, I'm sure you guys have seen, have you guys ever had any clients or opposing parties that have interrupted the judge, and if so, how did that go?
[00:03:55] Sarah Hink: Yes,
[00:03:56] Jen Bordeaux: not well.
[00:03:58] Sarah Hink: All the above. I've probably done it once or twice. I
[00:04:00] Elizabeth Stephenson: try not to, but I do every now and then. But clients will just go, I mean, hell yeah, they'll just go off.
[00:04:07] Sarah Hink: Yeah.
[00:04:08] Elizabeth Stephenson: And some judges are very patient. I was in court and evidently judge, this judge, very seasoned judge, knew this person. Mm-Hmm. Knew he was crazy as he could be.
[00:04:18] So she let him go on and on a little bit. And then finally it's like bailiff's, come in, grab him, put him down the hog and hear him screaming, yelling, you know, she clears the courtroom, brings him back in. Sends him to jail. I mean, you know, that's what can happen.
[00:04:33] Jen Bordeaux: Yeah. What do you guys do? One of your client, do you just like cr but like, like stone face, but just inside you're just cringing.
[00:04:39] Like, no, please stop, please stop, stop. If it's your client, especially,
[00:04:42] Elizabeth Stephenson: or either you're talking or like you're in closing or the judge is giving the ruling and then your client starts talking to you or, or starts wanting to talk to the judge and you just go
[00:04:51] Sarah Hink: stop. Yeah. You just tell 'em to stop. Stop. I always give them my client a pad of paper.
[00:04:55] Pad of paper, paper and pen. I'm just write it down. Write it down, but don't write it furiously because during the trial you have to understand that we're listening to the witness on the stand. We're listening to the opposing counsel what questions they're asking. So if you're in my ear telling me things I can't listen to like three plus people at one time.
[00:05:11] Right. And you're watching, watching the judge and
[00:05:12] Elizabeth Stephenson: see what their expression is. You know, it's write it down. And then you're trying to figure out what your exhibits are. Write it down. Right. Keep your face in check.
[00:05:19] Sarah Hink: That's
[00:05:19] Elizabeth Stephenson: right. Just remind myself,
[00:05:21] Sarah Hink: get more Botox. Freeze it. Just freeze it all. Yeah, yeah.
[00:05:24] Jen Bordeaux: No, I mean, that leads beautifully into one of our, our don'ts is don't lose control of your emotions.
[00:05:29] And that includes facial expressions, eye rolling, sighing, like just, yeah.
[00:05:34] Sarah Hink: Yeah. And I mean, you wanna make sure that you're authentic. So if you are, you know, talking about a subject that is emotional, upsetting, it's okay to cry.
[00:05:42] Elizabeth Stephenson: Yeah. Don't sob hysterically. You know, but it is absolutely okay to do that. But everybody lies all the time.
[00:05:48] They lie, all the, I don't care what anybody says they do. They lie all the time. So if your ex is up there lying his ass or her ass off, don't sit by me rolling your eyes, throwing your arms up her rumming. Just put your head down, suck it up and swallow it.
[00:05:59] Speaker 4: Mm-Hmm.
[00:06:00] Jen Bordeaux: Basically.
[00:06:00] Elizabeth Stephenson: And once you walk out the courtroom, you can do whatever you want to.
[00:06:04] Jen Bordeaux: They'd be outta the courthouse. The judges will call you
[00:06:06] Elizabeth Stephenson: out in a second. Yes. And they'll call your family out. They'll call your girlfriends out in the back that are rolling their eyes at the Mm-Hmm. The guy that screwed around on you. Don't do that.
[00:06:15] Sarah Hink: Yeah. Don't, don't that.
[00:06:16] Elizabeth Stephenson: That don't do that.
[00:06:17] Jen Bordeaux: Yeah. Ugh.
[00:06:18] Yikes. Wow. This one seems pretty basic, but don't be late. I can't tell the number of times just from, you know, opening up the office and the morning perspective generally. And I know it can vary from county to county, which is all the more reason to support the argument of, it's very important you work with an attorney that knows the county that your hearing's in.
[00:06:36] Don't be late and, you know, we open up at eight 30 and people will be calling us at five minutes to nine and saying. Please reach out to my attorney so and so and let 'em know that I'm running behind, I got stuck in traffic and blah, blah, blah. Look that up the night before. Leave an extra time like you, this hearing is not new news to you and this gonna
[00:06:52] Elizabeth Stephenson: start whether you're there.
[00:06:53] And I've had 'em start whether my client's there or not.
[00:06:56] Sarah Hink: Yes. I've had that threatened to me. Don't like it, but
[00:06:59] Elizabeth Stephenson: yeah.
[00:07:00] Sarah Hink: Get there on time.
[00:07:01] Elizabeth Stephenson: Well, it says a lot, and think of it this way, it says a lot to the judge. Mm-Hmm. That if, if this was important to you, like Jen said, you would've. Checked on how long took you to get there?
[00:07:10] Right? Where am I gonna park? What's this gonna be? Well, how long is my walk? If you can't even do that right then this must not be very important to you. And that's a horrible impression.
[00:07:18] Sarah Hink: And there's 10, 20 other cases behind you of people that wanna get hurt. That's right. And they are there. That's right.
[00:07:24] Mm-Hmm. And the judges, you know, seeing that you're late and it's your cases up and you're not there, like that's a drain on resources. And our resources are limited. Yeah. For a lot of families that need court time and they don't get it right. Yeah, and I mean,
[00:07:36] Jen Bordeaux: and courts, from what I hear you guys say constantly, you know, courts always is so bogged down.
[00:07:40] I mean, how long is, let's say, wake County, like you gotta schedule a hearing? I know it probably depends upon what kind of hearing it is, but how long is it for scheduling hearings out right now
[00:07:49] Sarah Hink: Ish? I would say it'd be good to get in within six months sometime. You know, temporary hearings, you get an a date as soon as you, file for a temporary matter such as custody or child support or, or post-separation support.
[00:08:03] But those cases are set on days where the timeframe is really shortened. Mm-Hmm. Like you're limited in time, so there's a good chance you'll get in from a temporary matter in the first few months.
[00:08:11] Jen Bordeaux: Okay. But
[00:08:12] Sarah Hink: it can be a while.
[00:08:13] Jen Bordeaux: And there's the chance that that can be continued, from what I understand, can be continued.
[00:08:18] Sarah Hink: And then you're back at it again and it's just, you know, you wanna be prepared the first time you go and hopefully just get hurt and reached in court, which I can't,
[00:08:26] Jen Bordeaux: you know, I mean, I know this is where we started with the don't Be Late, which still don't be late. But the frustration for clients and, and for the legal team as well, for you guys.
[00:08:34] 'cause you have to prepare. You don't know. Everyone's frustrated in court. Yeah. No one's happy.
[00:08:39] Sarah Hink: Everyone's a loser. No, you don't wanna be there if. You can settle, resolve issues outside of court. That's what you wanna do.
[00:09:43] Jen Bordeaux: Yeah.
[00:09:44] Sarah Hink: But there's a reason why people break up and divorce. It's 'cause they can't come to an agreement on things.
[00:09:48] Yep. So naturally. You do end up in court for a lot of reasons and not a lot of cases, and you have the judge and you have to respect that judge. It doesn't matter what I think of the judge, opposing counsel thinks of the judge, what anyone thinks of the judge. That person is making a big decision for your life and you gotta respect them.
[00:10:04] Yeah, to show up on time, be respectful and answer, you know, the questions asked of you. Don't be sassy with opposing counsel. As much. I, I'm a sassy person, so I understand. I've seen sassy Sarah. Yes, I've been, it's a thing. I've been, I've been sassy with my questioning of witnesses and judges have, you know, once or twice had to be like Miss h, take it down a notch.
[00:10:25] So I get it. But, but that's the kind of attorney you want right there. Yes, yes, of course. But you have to respect the room and you're in and the people in it, for sure.
[00:10:33] Jen Bordeaux: Yeah. Absolutely. All right, so we got Don't be late, don't lose control of your emotions. Don't bring the kids to court. How, I mean, you know, I.
[00:10:41] Sarah Hink: So kids and the, when you go in the courtrooms, there's gonna be something on the door generally that says, and kids under 18, obviously kids, kids are under 18, are not allowed in the courtroom. One because you don't wanna involve them in your, you know, litigation, drama. Mm-Hmm. You know. Two. I mean, they just, you don't know what else they're gonna hear in there from other people's cases.
[00:11:03] Obviously there's cases where attorneys and their client decide they wanna bring a child into court to either testify or talk to a judge. I mean, that's different. I always try to avoid that in my cases. I don't think children should be involved in that. But there are some certain scenarios where that might be a course of action you and your attorney decide to go.
[00:11:22] So that's not what we're talking about here. Yeah. But also going back to what we talked about before with child support enforcement, these, you know, there's low income people in there a lot of times and they don't have childcare. Mm-Hmm. So it is hard and it's, it, it's something we have to try and balance, especially with the court system to understand that, you know, they can't afford childcare, they can't afford hardly anything, and they're here trying to, you know, get their baby daddy pay some money and they should.
[00:11:47] I'm sorry, that noise scared me. Me. Send, send, send that money. Send that money on through. Send it. That's right. Yeah, so you know, it's like, it, like we said before, if you can afford attorneys, private attorney, then you know, don't bring your kids. To court, you can probably get childcare or have someone look them after them for you
[00:12:04] Jen Bordeaux: and you know, not waiting until the last minute.
[00:12:07] Generally, you know, your hearing date a long way in advance.
[00:12:12] Sarah Hink: Oh my gosh. Some people, so a lot of times I feel like I care more about the case than my clients do.
[00:12:16] Jen Bordeaux: Yeah. To general. Hopefully being able to, you know, find arrangements, get prepared. Yeah. Knowing that far in advance whenever your hearing is, be
[00:12:23] Sarah Hink: prepared.
[00:12:23] Get your documents that we ask for and on time so we can prepare and have exhibits. I dunno how many times I've sent lists to clients, weeks and weeks and weeks in advance of a hearing and they print and bring that shit to court on the court date. And I'm like, I can't use this. I've never, I didn't see it till now.
[00:12:39] I don't have four copies of this. What are you giving me? Like no. Yeah.
[00:12:42] Jen Bordeaux: That, you know, and that, I mean, that's big 'cause we even try, we start, we try to do it from the inception of them becoming a client. Right. You know, we send out an email welcoming them to the, to the firm and introducing their legal team.
[00:12:53] And then also, here's a list of documents that we need you to provide. Yes. We have a bold line in there. We cannot initiate any litigation until we have these documents and they still don't do it.
[00:13:02] Sarah Hink: No. Get your shit together
[00:13:05] Jen Bordeaux: and I'll get mine together
[00:13:05] Sarah Hink: and we'll go
[00:13:06] Jen Bordeaux: do this together. That that's right.
[00:13:07] That's right. Elizabeth kind of touched on this earlier. She was, you know, she's mentioned that everybody lies, but do be honest.
[00:13:15] Sarah Hink: Yeah, you should be honest because you never know which lie you're gonna get caught in. And if you get caught in the lie, that's like the worst thing for your case.
[00:13:22] Jen Bordeaux: Yeah. And always being honest with your attorney.
[00:13:24] Out of court as well in meetings. I know that we've had, you must be, you must, the, the instances where clients get up on the stand and then you guys got new news as they're reporting it live Yes. In court. Yes. And my
[00:13:34] Sarah Hink: face just drops again, back to needing more Botox to freeze it because I'd be like, sometimes I'm like, oh gosh.
[00:13:40] And I'm just like, get it, get your face back, Sarah. Get it stranded out. Because you're. Client and you'll meet with them. You'll go over their testimony and you'll go over the questions. You'll go over the exhibits one by one through the notebook, and they get up there and it's like a completely different person shows up.
[00:13:54] And I understand that it's stressful. Mm-Hmm. But take your time when you're on stand listen to the questions that are being asked of you. If it's your attorney, you know, listen carefully and ask, you know, answer just very directly. Don't go on tangents because you're. Court case is timed, and you might run out of time to present your case when opposing counsel is asking you questions, you know, don't make up answers.
[00:14:14] A lot of people feel like they have to answer the question. They have to tell this person what they wanna hear. Just something that I think naturally just happens. But don't do that. Don't guess at what the answer is. If you don't know, you don't know.
[00:14:25] Jen Bordeaux: Yeah.
[00:14:25] Sarah Hink: And you'll, you'd have to remind me, ma'am, or I don't remember.
[00:14:29] Or you're asking about a piece of paper. I don't remember what it says. Do you have, you know, can I see it? Or something like that? Yeah. Like you don't. Yeah. Don't make up answers.
[00:14:37] Jen Bordeaux: Yeah. And you're, and you're not going into the hearing blindly without any direction. You guys meet with clients to do hearing prep meetings so they know Right.
[00:14:45] What, what to expect and, you know, but assume quickly, just kind of high level, what goes on in those hearing prep meetings. Like what are you prepping your client for? Like how
[00:14:53] Sarah Hink: Well the general. Flow of the case for court to go through the exhibits. So I prepare exhibit notebooks and they're tabbed and you know, so they're familiar with what you're gonna talk about, what you're gonna see, what questions you're gonna ask them about the document to get it into evidence.
[00:15:07] Because there's certain questions you have to lay the foundation for in a general overview. And I tell them, I'm not gonna prepare specific questions for you because that's not really how it is. It's gonna be natural and flowing from your testimony, and it's your opportunity to tell the court your story.
[00:15:22] And then for the other side, you know, we. Ask them questions after their attorney does their direct testimony follow up questions, and that's more of a listening to what they have to say and then having evidence prepared to kinda catch them in a lie like we talked about before. And Hal mentioned before about not going off on a tangent when your own attorney asks you questions because you're timed when opposing counsel asks you questions.
[00:15:42] Go off on any tangent you want that's gonna use up that time, that's gonna, you know, you know, go to support your argument. So if they're trying to talk to you about one time that you sent a nasty, you know, text, start talking about how he sent 12 nasty texts before that one. So you're kind of like flipping it back on them and you're getting the opportunity to kind of like.
[00:15:58] Just go off. Yeah. In a nice way, not Right. Right. Doesn't mean that a bitchy way. Again,
[00:16:02] Jen Bordeaux: go back to controlling your emotions. Yes. Yes. Well, in all this, it sounds like not only do attorneys have to go to law school, but you guys also deserve Grammys. I feel like you guys gotta go in there and be actors a little bit.
[00:16:13] Yeah. It's exhausting,
[00:16:14] Sarah Hink: but we love it. I mean, love, you know, doing this for our clients and. We respect the judge and the system. We have a great community of judicial officials in Wake County and the surrounding counties and all the attorneys that we work with, a great bar in Wake County and that makes it a lot easier for us to go do these hard tasks.
[00:16:31] You know, recently I was in court you know, for a multiple day custody trial. My client was like, ah, damn, I know why you guys drink. And I'm like, okay, well I don't, as we sit here with wine glasses on our table, I don't go up and drink every night. But yeah, they're noticing that it's stressful and that we do is hard and, you know.
[00:16:48] It, it, it can be, but you know, listen to your attorney. We're the ones that have experience in the courtroom. And when you go there that day, it's gonna be stressful. It's gonna be hard. Get whatever rest you can. Don't be hungover though. Don't like, feel like you're gonna drink a bunch of wine and sleep 'cause that you don't sleep when you drink a bunch of wine.
[00:17:03] That's just something I've learned in my age. Be arrested. Yeah. Be
[00:17:08] Jen Bordeaux: all rested. And also if you're. Going to bed to get well rested. We were inspired by this today's pet topic by something we saw on TikTok because we now have as New Direction Family Law and TikTok account. So go follow us on TikTok.
[00:17:19] Shameless plug. Yeah. And you can learn all kinds of fun. Apparently there's divorce talk, hashtag divorce talks. I love it. So yeah.
[00:17:27] Sarah Hink: All right, all good things. Well listen to your attorney. Wear some good clothing and ain't that some shit? Some