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Brand to Scale is a podcast where we talk to business leaders and industry influencers about how they built their brands. Each episode dives into real stories about starting up, growing through challenges, and what success looks like behind the scenes. It's an honest look at the people and ideas driving business forward.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:08:21
Unknown
Yeah.
00:00:08:23 - 00:00:14:02
Unknown
Yeah.
00:00:14:04 - 00:00:39:03
Unknown
Welcome to Brand to Scale, where I explore the real stories behind visionary leaders making the everyday into something extraordinary. I'm Jess, your host, co-founder of alchemy and commercial director at Nick tasks consultancy and Training. Lifelong love of stories and endlessly, endlessly curious about the spark that drives people to succeed. Today, I'm thrilled to welcome Jitendra to share how he is creating his own alchemy in business and life.
00:00:39:05 - 00:01:08:01
Unknown
Welcome. Thank you. Yes, thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here with you. Thank you. I really appreciate the time. I know you're a super, super busy guy. It would be great to hear a little bit of background about you and your business mind. Sure. So I am co-founder of, or Mind Technologies. It's a generative AI, company, which is, particularly focused within the customer experience side.
00:01:08:15 - 00:01:31:10
Unknown
It's about 60 employees at the moment. We're spread between us, UK, India. And I have a couple of guys based out of the Philippines as well. So, doing extremely well, super busy for the last 12 months. We are looking to grow by about 150% this, financial year. So really looking forward to it. Ambitious, I love it.
00:01:31:12 - 00:02:07:05
Unknown
Yeah. Thank you. Right. Start. Now, behind every great business, every ambitious business is a founder with a story about how they got where they are. So tell me a little bit about your background growing up, where you grew up, and what life was like. Well, one of my favorite questions, you know, I must admit, because it gets me to go back to where my roots are and, really also, you know, make people aware about about the place that I grew up in.
00:02:07:19 - 00:02:33:11
Unknown
It's in the northeast of India. It's a place called Manipur. It borders the country of Myanmar. Or, you know, Burma earlier. That's what the name was. Some very pleasant and some very unpleasant memories and a lot of adventures. That's how I would I would like to summarize. Now, let me let me paint the picture. Imagine temperatures ranging from four degrees to 30 degrees during summer.
00:02:33:22 - 00:03:04:01
Unknown
Lush green paddy fields, fresh lakes, beautiful rivers, surrounded by hills, you know, not mountains, but hills, which you can climb in a day and come back. Right? It's really lovely to be there. It gives you more like the Southeast Asia vibes, although it's pretty much in India as part of India. So growing up in Manipur during those years was, was a blend of, vibrant community, and quite challenges as well.
00:03:04:02 - 00:03:27:11
Unknown
A lot of challenges. The valleys always buzzed with, markets which were run by women mostly, and, you know, there were lovely festivals like Java, with, with, good food and music. But the backdrop wasn't always calm. There was a lot of political unrest and economic struggles. You know, there one too many jobs.
00:03:27:17 - 00:03:52:03
Unknown
There were only just two government jobs. And outside the government jobs, there were just like, you know, teachers or teaching jobs. That's that's what was was there. So power outages were constant. Many times had to study under the lantern or the candle. I remember our house was the only one with, drinking water. So the entire community, about 50 houses would come every morning.
00:03:52:03 - 00:04:17:09
Unknown
And there was a certain window, you know, it wasn't available 24 by seven. So everybody would queue up just to just to draw water from, from, from the, you know, water that was being, being supplied. So that really kind of set the scene for me. I saw real life problems. I mean, that, that, that made me think also things like a value that really close to my heart is thinking beyond profit.
00:04:17:10 - 00:04:51:09
Unknown
You know, there's a world outside there which is beyond profits as well. So, so that really set something in me, I think, you know, which which made me feel like, okay, I should really, be an entrepreneur, be successful and and do something, you know, about real life, problems. Now, on the on, you know, while the ethnic diversity was a blessing, but I think it's a curse at the same time because if you go back, the, the ethnic, problems has been really there for a very, very long time.
00:04:51:11 - 00:05:22:09
Unknown
And, the proximity of the state to the Golden Triangle fueled the drug crisis, because in my youth, you know, heroin was flowing through, through the state. So hooking up many and, shared needles kind of caused a lot of HIV problems. So I lost quite a few family members to both the problems. So it was a stark lesson in how borders and poverty amplify addiction, chipping my resolve to become a successful entrepreneur and be able to solve, real life problems.
00:05:22:12 - 00:05:47:04
Unknown
And I think that's where it all began during this childhood. Wow. That is a story. So you. It's, beautiful, like really picturesque. But then behind that is a lot of challenges. And you saw some things, I guess that. Yeah. Fueled it at that time. Were you thinking I'm going to be an entrepreneur or were you thinking, I need to be successful so I can remove myself from this and have more options?
00:05:47:04 - 00:06:06:17
Unknown
Like what was the like? Did you have the entrepreneur language at the time? What was the thinking? Well, not exactly the terminology as, as an entrepreneur, but I think back in the days, businessman was more like a trade when we were growing up, I mean, everybody thought, okay, you know, you do business, and that's what.
00:06:06:17 - 00:06:41:16
Unknown
So we used to call it a businessman. So I wouldn't say I was thinking in the literal word entrepreneur, but businessman is what I thought myself to be, right? And funny enough, you know, I never imagined myself to be, going into any other profession. I thought, okay, I need to do some sort of a business. And that got seeded right, in my early days of childhood, and ever since, I've been really pursuing and really pivoting, you know, across my career and seeing, okay, how can I really, get going and become a successful businessman.
00:06:41:17 - 00:07:01:16
Unknown
And challenges, of course, has been many. Because, as I said, you know, even though the thought was there, right there, there was no ecosystem for anybody to pick up business. There was no access to finance. There was no, banks back then, you know. So it was it was very difficult to imagine how one would start, you know, there was a lack of mentorship.
00:07:01:16 - 00:07:22:20
Unknown
There was no community for anybody to start anything. And most of my uncles and aunts, we have a started something, even a small business, a fail miserably. Because the, the, the government had not created an ecosystem there. And I think, I think that's really where it began. And I never, imagined I would be here in the UK.
00:07:22:21 - 00:07:44:12
Unknown
I would, I would migrate to UK, but I'm thankful to God. But, you know, I did think that I will turn into some sort of a businessman doing multiple businesses. And, I think I just am getting started here. Thank you. Getting started. It sounds like you have more than got started. What was the first spark then of what was the first business?
00:07:44:12 - 00:08:08:05
Unknown
What was the first venture? When you were living there? Well, this was my early 20s. After I graduated, I, as I said, you know, the backdrop was there were no opportunities, right? I mean, there were no government jobs, coming out or anything one could possibly think in the private sector as well. So I thought, okay, what should I do?
00:08:08:05 - 00:08:30:01
Unknown
So restaurant business was something that came to my mind and I saw, okay, a lot of, youngsters, need a place to just maybe sip a cup of tea or coffee and have some good food. So I thought of it more like, you know, people, early 20s, teenagers coming, having some food and spending some time there.
00:08:30:03 - 00:08:53:16
Unknown
So I created this, restaurant. It had around 32 covers, you know, 32 people could sit. It created a bit of, a place to sit outside and, you know, curated a menu which was fast moving at the same time. Not too much, so that it doesn't stress me out. Yeah. I had a couple of people, one was a cook.
00:08:54:08 - 00:09:17:20
Unknown
And then a couple of guys to help, and we started off. So that was the first thing. I mean, I remember I borrowed, like, I think was like, 450 pounds from my, from my mum and, and that's, that's where I started from. Yeah. It was a restaurant. Yeah. Wow. What was, what was the next step from that or what?
00:09:17:22 - 00:09:40:05
Unknown
And what challenges did you find within that? Because you're not in that industry now. Yeah. I'm assuming you didn't either fall in love with it or there was some. Yeah, that's not for me. So. Well, actually, to tell you the truth, yes, it was extremely successful. All right. So it was like 12 months down the line after after borrowing this money from, and setting it up.
00:09:40:07 - 00:10:04:23
Unknown
And I was really able to do well, early 20s. So the business was really doing well. Now, a couple of things that I did was, I was thinking one day and I said, okay, I cannot increase the space that I have. Right. But how do I increase my revenue? So. Very interesting. I thought, there is this, largest school, mom used to teach there, so I had connects there.
00:10:05:01 - 00:10:24:15
Unknown
So I said, okay, why don't I go and meet the headmaster over there and propose something? So I went there early, you know, young age and sat there and this, you know, priest was like, probably maybe in his, in his early 50s. And he looks at me and is thinking, what is he gonna say? So I said, okay, mom.
00:10:24:15 - 00:10:43:14
Unknown
Moment requested a meeting. So I said, okay, I want to supply fresh food to the children right. Every day. In your in your in your, in your cafeteria. And he looks at me and he said, okay, what are you going to give? So I said, okay, I'll make some dumplings and I'll make some noodles fresh one, you know, and will bring it.
00:10:43:15 - 00:10:55:14
Unknown
And he was like, how are you going to bring. It's like a few kilometers. I said, you know, I have a I have a solution to that. I will, I will bring it on a daily basis. So he said, okay, I'm fine with it, but you got to go and talk to the canteen manager. I said, okay, fair enough.
00:10:55:16 - 00:11:16:00
Unknown
So I went there, spoke to the canteen manager, and I said, okay, look, you know, this is what we're going to sell for. And, you know, this is your commission and we would like to keep it here, this thing. Okay. So, in fact, it was quite funny because we started making these dumplings and we started, you know, doing very well.
00:11:16:00 - 00:11:35:05
Unknown
And we were making, like, thousands of dumplings every day, you know, veggie and chicken dumplings and some fresh noodles. And I had a guy who would actually cycle in his bicycle and take the fresh food we had to reach at a certain time. So it was like, it was like a proper operations that we had started.
00:11:35:09 - 00:11:58:09
Unknown
So that that helped us like, you know, make our sales like, 2X3X, very quickly. And so started doing very well in 12 months down the line. I was actually about to open my second. So mentally I was, I was doing very well. You know, business was successful. And I was about to open this, second restaurant in a different location.
00:11:58:11 - 00:12:23:20
Unknown
And, as I mentioned, the, the there was a lot of political problems there. So there were a lot of insurgent groups there, you know, people who were operating as extremism so slowly, steadily, started, you know, extortion was rampant at that time. Okay. So, so, things happen, you know, when, when people figured out that you were making money, they wanted the money.
00:12:23:21 - 00:12:43:08
Unknown
So, it became a little uncomfortable, awkward, and then finally, I was the only son I got. Two siblings, lost my dad at a very early age, so mom said, okay, this place is not for you. It's too violent. It's full of problems. I say it, you know, I wouldn't ask you too much from life.
00:12:43:08 - 00:13:02:06
Unknown
I want you to shut the shop, sell it off, and then I want you to go to the city. You know, because you are not probably made to live here in this environment. So I said, okay, what do I do? And, again, mom, sense that, you know, I was young at my early 20s. I was also not backing down.
00:13:02:06 - 00:13:25:06
Unknown
Right. You're in a different attitude at that point in time. You know, you don't you don't feel scared of picking up a fight as well. Right? So I think she could sense that in me. So she said, okay, do this. So finally, without at that point of time, it was extremely difficult for me to be honest, because how can you walk away from something where you made it successful?
00:13:25:08 - 00:13:45:11
Unknown
You know, where you have actually got up early in the morning, and I used to walk to my restaurant because initially when I was starting out, you know, money was tight. So I didn't have the money to be able to buy a bicycle or to be able to buy a motorcycle or something like that. So I used to walk to the restaurant and I used to close in the evening, you know, straight after 14, 16 hours.
00:13:45:11 - 00:14:10:05
Unknown
And then I used to walk back in the night. Right. So extremely a lot of hard work has gone into it. So it was very difficult decision for me to really walk out of this. But then I said, okay, you know, let's see, you know, I sometimes have to place my trust in destiny as well. So I said, okay, agreed to mom, sold it off, and then, I did not know which city to go to in India.
00:14:10:05 - 00:14:34:18
Unknown
Right. So you've got like Bangalore, Mumbai, Kolkata, Delhi, Hyderabad, these are all big cities. And, I had no relatives. So a friend of mine was actually in Delhi, so I spoke to him. You know, those were days when you were not checking your emails and you didn't have mobile phones. So I emailed him, you know, he replied in a couple of days.
00:14:35:06 - 00:14:52:22
Unknown
And then he said, you know, why don't you come to Delhi? I said, okay, fair enough. So he said, okay, on this date, you know, call me on this number. So I said, okay, fair enough. So I called him, you know, there used to be the STD booths right where you would die. So so I'm talking about like 2000, probably.
00:14:52:22 - 00:15:15:18
Unknown
Yeah. And then I call and then he and I spoke and he said, why don't you come to Delhi and we'll see, you know what? What we can do. And I was like, okay, what are you doing? So he said, I'm working for, jackass. I said, what is jacket? So he said, GE capital, you know, International services and in Delhi they've just started outsourcing a lot of work.
00:15:16:02 - 00:15:37:22
Unknown
A lot of, back office work, a lot of, customer service work. So, so it was just beginning the outsourcing was just beginning. And I said, okay, you know, I can understand that. You know, maybe I'll give it a try. So I took a train, came to Delhi, and, that's where, you know, I stayed with him, this friend of mine, and then, you know, applied for jobs.
00:15:38:00 - 00:16:00:12
Unknown
And within a week, you know, I was able to get a job with, same ge, but GE was, was was having a joint venture with state Bank of India, which is one of the largest banks in India, state owned bank. And they were coming out with credit cards. They were launching credit cards. So it was a joint venture between SBI and G.
00:16:00:14 - 00:16:22:04
Unknown
So I got a job over there in the customer service department, and I had to start really like, you know, from customer service, taking calls and speaking to customers and resupply required. Yeah. And it was crazy. I was so shocked that for six months I did not speak with anyone. I was like, I was like, what am I doing?
00:16:22:04 - 00:16:44:23
Unknown
What have I got myself into? You know, have hindsight. You know, it was it was for the good. But at that point in time, it was extremely difficult because my heart and my mind was in my place. I really loved, being there in this valley in Imphal, which is the valley. I love my place. And, suddenly having to let go of everything that you were.
00:16:44:23 - 00:17:00:22
Unknown
Because in my mind, at that point in time, I was on to something, right? I was starting my business. I always wanted to do business, and then having to let go of that and then run away from there and come to a city where you don't know anybody except for a couple of friends and start a completely different direction.
00:17:00:22 - 00:17:28:19
Unknown
So it was extremely difficult. It took me a good six, seven months for me to really, settle in, settle in? In there? Yeah. Are you looking back? Are you grateful to your mum for, you know, pushing you down that path? Like what? What would life have looked like now if you stayed? Absolutely. I'm totally grateful because I think that set the path for where I am today.
00:17:29:09 - 00:17:57:20
Unknown
To be honest, I think a lot of international exposure, you know, being able to work with a diverse workforce, different sorts of people, being able to experience a lot of different cultures, travel the was so, absolutely thankful, full of gratitude. But at that point in time, I could not understand that. Right. So obviously I went through this difficult moment in my in my life, but I am very thankful for my how life has turned out to be.
00:17:57:22 - 00:18:24:09
Unknown
What what do you think you learned from that experience of having to to go from a place you love, doing something you love, and then thrown into this whole new environment and having to start from scratch? I think, you know, somewhere I would say, you know, some may call it got, some may call it luck, some may call it being in the right place at the right time.
00:18:24:11 - 00:18:52:03
Unknown
Some may call it destiny. I do not know what name to call it, but sometimes I think, you just got to have the faith and trust, right? You may not know at that moment what is what is the right thing, but I think maybe there is an external force that does intervene at times. Right? Like this case, you know, I mean it sometimes I wonder that had I been stubborn, how would my life would have turned out to be right today?
00:18:52:09 - 00:19:23:15
Unknown
And it's difficult to imagine because it's not like things have become absolutely fine. They're, you know, the challenges that I mentioned still exist. You know, if you see, for the last two years, there is a huge ethnic, problem that's happening between there between my community and cookies. Right, which originally came in from Myanmar. So so there are problems still, you know, the problem still exists, the problems of the ecosystem not being there to create successful businesses and push people and the youth in the right direction is still does not exist.
00:19:23:16 - 00:19:43:05
Unknown
It's still a corrupt place. You know, it used to be very corrupt. It's still very corrupt. So I think I think it's not devoid of the challenges that we face. Maybe slightly. Some things have become better and some things have become worse. Like I was there a couple of years ago, and at least I know for sure that the water problem seems to have been solved right?
00:19:43:06 - 00:20:03:15
Unknown
Every household there when I was growing up, people coming in queuing up seems to have gone away. Right. So so some of the problems have gone away, but I think I think there are more complicated problems out there. So I cannot, I cannot fathom, you know, how it would have been. But I am glad that it turned out to be that way.
00:20:03:15 - 00:20:26:12
Unknown
And I'm also glad that I actually heard, you know, to what was being said or advice. So I think advice from maybe elders, maybe from people that know better, in life, I think is extremely crucial to listen, even in business. I think you know, there are this whole concept of mentorship, you know, somebody who is walk that path, right?
00:20:26:12 - 00:20:55:23
Unknown
Somebody who has built a successful business, successful entrepreneur, probably, who was raised successfully or exited successfully. I think there are valuable lessons in it. And I think that advice is very, very precious. So that's one thing that I would say I've really learned from it that, okay, you should stop and not always think that you know the best, but sometimes listen to somebody else who might be much more better and much more experienced in that particular space.
00:20:56:01 - 00:21:17:10
Unknown
Yeah. Who you surround yourself with matters, doesn't it? And, yourself with people who, yeah, like you said, have walked the path or seen things that you haven't seen and could give a fresh perspective as well, not just the people really close to you who, see the ins and outs. Yeah, 100% agree. So from dumplings to generative AI.
00:21:17:12 - 00:21:41:18
Unknown
Yeah, it's quite a journey. How does that I mean, I feel like that should be a tagline now, you know. Yeah. How how does that happen. So you're in in customer service now. You've got the headphones on. Yeah. Learning a completely new industry. Yeah. What happens between that period and, you know, the birth of your business. Like what what's going on here?
00:21:41:20 - 00:22:07:12
Unknown
Yeah. No, it sounds and sometimes I find it funny too, right? I mean, when I think of my own journey. So. But you know what? I think it has given me a unique advantage. I feel that way, right? Because if you look at somebody who is only a good programmer, probably they don't understand the business context. And if you look at the business people, they do not understand the technology part.
00:22:07:12 - 00:22:32:07
Unknown
Right. But life has brought me in such a way where I think I can stitch between the two, and it's given me a very unique, understanding and a unique positioning for myself. Okay, I'll explain that and elaborate that. So I started off on the business side, so that helped me understand. Okay. You know, they were like, you know, screens, you know, it was mainframe, you know, where you wrote a command to see screens.
00:22:32:09 - 00:22:54:14
Unknown
So I think I had to learn around 80 to 85 different screens, you know, where you would go and look up the statement balance, because these are all legacy platforms for the banking, right? So it helped me understand the banking processes, how cards are issued and how underwriting is done. And because to be able to service a customer who has the credit Guardian is using, you got to you got to really know everything that's happening, right?
00:22:54:14 - 00:23:16:12
Unknown
Because sometimes they could be a block. You need to be able to remove the block and so on and so forth. So that helped me really understand the business process. Right? Okay. That okay, customer service is very important for any industry, any kind of business. And before customer service you also have the customer acquisition piece, right? Where somebody is inquiring and making whether they should buy that product or apply for the credit card.
00:23:16:12 - 00:23:48:18
Unknown
So you need to know the products as well. So that help me understand business process within, let's say a credit card industry. And from there on, I moved into a role of an analyst with American Express, and that made me understand a lot more better about how credit cards and financial services operate. Right? So slowly over a period of time, I had a bit of a background in programing at done some programing courses and during the three years of degree, some level of programing, but don't ask me to code because I'm not really, really I'm out of it completely, right.
00:23:48:22 - 00:24:23:02
Unknown
You can't get to everything. Yeah, exactly. So, so over a period of time. So the business process, the application started knowing it and then slowly starting that I started working for technology and it enabled services, where you are running call centers to back office and then you're also developing software. So I was working for an IoT technology after Mac and Express, and I was running, you know, a large set up of, a lot of business processes that were running for across customers from Australia, from us and, from UK as well.
00:24:23:04 - 00:24:45:17
Unknown
And that helped me really understand business process. Okay. And then I think I was a courier, so and that really helped me. I wanted to create things, you know, I wanted to be able to build things. So, so when I saw problems in running massive headcount, you know, early on, with a couple of real good programmers in the office, we said, okay, why can't we do this?
00:24:45:17 - 00:25:15:13
Unknown
We're going to have this real time reporting work on which we work on. So I started asking this question and slowly, steadily, we started building things that would help us in our day to day operation. And that's really where I think the, interest in technology came in. Okay. In this career then, with this company, one day, my, my, my boss called me and says, okay, you know, we feel like, I want to transfer you to London just like that, right?
00:25:16:05 - 00:25:36:11
Unknown
I was in Delhi, and, I had been to London for a meeting, meeting customers. I'd been to us, I'd been to Australia. And some reason I found UK weather, you know, London quite similar to home. Right. And and I was like, I wouldn't mind living here. Right. I never thought that that I would actually land up here.
00:25:36:11 - 00:25:58:02
Unknown
So out of the blue, my, my boss says, okay, you know, we're thinking of transferring you. So from, from managing operations for the company, I want you to move into a more commercial role, which is, client relationship and, sales. And I said, I've never done it. I said, no, okay. There's always a first time. So.
00:25:58:04 - 00:26:14:08
Unknown
So you're used to that by now, right? Exactly. And I just get thrown into it right. So I said, okay. So he says, are you not going to talk to your wife? I said, no, I am I'm sure she is going to be happy about it. And, and at first she was not right. I thought she would be.
00:26:14:08 - 00:26:38:14
Unknown
Yeah. And that is. I still regret it. 18 years I we've got married, and that's one point she, like you, didn't even ask. So I, I'm with her. Yeah. So I mean, I thought I was, I was taking a decision in our interest and for the future. Right. So we we came here, landed up in January of 2010, and it was the day I came here.
00:26:38:14 - 00:27:00:13
Unknown
It was like, as soon as I reached the hotel, I was supposed to, come for my induction and everything, and, it started snowing, so it was beautiful, you know, a real good experience in a long nine hours. Denies flight from Delhi. Then, come here. Land here. And you're just like, you know, experiencing snow falling for the first time in your life, so.
00:27:00:15 - 00:27:22:18
Unknown
Wow. Nothing short of a, you know, beautiful spectacle, right? It was an amazing experience. Yeah. So I really loved it. And then slowly, you know, took over my induction, complete it, went back, and then finally March 18th, 22nd, if I remember, is when I came back finally with, with the work permit and everything processed. So that's when that's when we landed.
00:27:22:18 - 00:27:46:02
Unknown
So worked with with it. I was managing the customers, managing, business, you know, trying to crack deals. I think, there's always a beginner's luck, like the way. So within six months, you know, out of the blue, in the new role, in a new country trying to settle, I landed a multi-million dollar deal, but I'm just going to stop you that I love.
00:27:46:02 - 00:28:15:14
Unknown
I love what you said about beginner's luck. And I was like. But I feel like that's got nothing to do with it. I feel like you just go headfirst and just try your best and see what comes out of it. So I think it's probably a bit of tenacity rather than the luck. I still am to figure that out because I still don't have an answer, because sometimes I feel there is there is a strong, you know, hand somewhere, something that happens and it just puts you probably in the right location.
00:28:15:16 - 00:28:35:01
Unknown
And, I mean, sometimes because I've also seen the other days. Right? I mean, I mean, on one hand things happen and on the other hand, you know, you, you, you, you work like 60 hours and you put in all the effort and then, you know, it's not working and you just can't understand and fathom, you know, what exactly is going wrong.
00:28:35:01 - 00:28:52:10
Unknown
Right. And I've been in those situations as well when, when you are pursuing a larger contract or a larger deal and you can sometimes it's difficult. You know, you've done the right things, you know, you've you put the best, you put the best people, you put all the stuff that you can put in a, in a, in a good proposal.
00:28:52:12 - 00:29:09:22
Unknown
But still it's very difficult to figure out what went wrong. And and that's why, you know, sometimes I have not let that get into my head that okay. You know, it's all because of my effort or hard work, because sometimes I truly, I actually, honestly believe that sometimes it's not. So, you know, it's it's sometimes it just works like magic.
00:29:09:22 - 00:29:38:16
Unknown
And it's probably meant to happen. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a beautiful way of thinking about it. So I'm not going to I'm not going to say you're wrong because that's lovely. Yeah. Thank thank you. Yeah. So that's that's where I landed. And then it's been, it's been quite amazing thereafter. So coming to the technology. So of course, you know, when you go into customers and when you manage, then you see business problems, then you see that, okay, technology can solve.
00:29:38:16 - 00:29:58:20
Unknown
So you take help, you work with, you collaborate, and you try and do solutions that can really benefit customers and add value and have an impact. Right. And that's been a conscious effort. You know, one thing that I've learned is to be honest with customers, you know that if I can do something and think and solve something, if I cannot, then I cannot, right?
00:29:58:22 - 00:30:27:20
Unknown
And I think that has come. That's really helped me. That's really helped me in working with customers and building relationships. And then, I think heavy work in technology came between 2012 to 2018. By this time I had joined a company called, you know, integral of Technologies, which was again an IT plus a business process company specializing only within the travel sector at that point in time.
00:30:27:20 - 00:30:49:21
Unknown
Now, they may have diversified, but at that point in time it was solely focused in travel. And, you know, I was I was hitting the region, then started building. So I started getting into the sales leadership, commercial leadership role right from an individual contributor back in, in, in that role, with with an it. So that gave me a lot of exposure.
00:30:49:23 - 00:31:16:17
Unknown
I was able to travel. I was looking after UK, Europe and America as a market, successfully built, a good amount of revenue for them in those six, seven years. Taking the market size to, you know, a good, good size, you know, and then, worked with, with top travel companies providing technology services, providing business process services.
00:31:16:19 - 00:31:41:04
Unknown
So a lot of, you know, let's say, you know, the fortune 500 companies, which is within the travel space, from airlines to online travel companies, started doing a lot of them, very complex projects as well. You know, we did a large transformation project from legacy into OpenStack on the technology side. Now, while doing this, what I did was, there were many times where I could not understand.
00:31:41:06 - 00:31:59:16
Unknown
So I actually was curious, you know, so I would actually sit down with, with, with a technical guy like an architect and say, hey, listen, explain this to me, okay? Or I would, I would grab my customer, who was very good in it, and I would say, hey, I don't have a clue of what we are talking here.
00:31:59:21 - 00:32:24:02
Unknown
Can you sit down and explain to me? I remember one certification where we were talking of an airline reservation systems, and it was a complex area because it was, related with, you know, weight and balance, you know, for the plane to take off. And I could not understand a thing, in the meeting. So I went up to this, you know, to this customer, and I said, hey, can you sit down with me for an hour?
00:32:24:02 - 00:32:46:07
Unknown
You know, just just help me understand, you know, the basics, right? So I made that effort, and that kind of helped me understand business applications and the technology quite well. And that gave me a good view into into this. So I was able to get a sense of, okay, where it's going, you know, from digital transformation. Okay.
00:32:46:09 - 00:33:06:16
Unknown
You know, where is where is, the AI sitting in this? So it helped me really understand that part of it. And, that's how I got into this space because I thought, this is this is the way I see this as, let's say, you know, let's say back in the days you had a horse as a as a mode of transportation.
00:33:06:18 - 00:33:30:10
Unknown
And then if you told that generation that someday you will see drones and driverless cars and, you know, some of the things like, like if you shuttle in the kind of cars that are coming out now, I think it would be hard to imagine. So similarly, I see that, you know, we are there is a wave and this is a good wave in that sense.
00:33:30:10 - 00:33:55:02
Unknown
And I see that this is probably a good chance for the next couple of years to really get into it and to really lead, in this, in this, in this space. So that's the opportunity I see. I love what you've said about you mentioned it previously about the curiosity being a bit of a superpower. And I think that's like been a thread all the way through, hasn't it?
00:33:55:02 - 00:34:21:16
Unknown
You've gone. Yeah. I don't understand that. I need to find out more. I don't understand what the problem is, that I'm going to dig in to find out more. And curiosity. I feel, is a an underrated trait, to have as a business person or anyone really living life, you know, find out, ask more questions. And the great businesses are born from problems, isn't it, that that people have seen and explored.
00:34:21:16 - 00:34:49:07
Unknown
So it's really fascinating to to see that thread running through your your story. Let's talk about your mind then. So what is it, what problem to solved and where are you at currently with with that stage of the business? Absolutely. Thank you. I mean, I mean, I'll try and, you know, explain as, as simple as I can, because sometimes it can, it can get a feeling that, okay, we're trying to do too much.
00:34:49:09 - 00:35:23:08
Unknown
So let me first explain which segment of customer experience we're talking about. Right. So every organization, every industry vertical requires, as I mentioned on the customer acquisition. And after they have acquired a customer, they need customer service, customer support. Right now, if you look at this space, this is the space that I'm talking about. Because this is the space where I see there's a huge potential for us to do work with AI and and genetic AI and the LMS that is that is coming out every day, almost every day.
00:35:23:08 - 00:35:47:11
Unknown
Right? So all mine operates in this space, very conscious boundary that we want to operate because we understand this extremely well, not just me, but also the parent company that has funded all mine. As I mentioned, it is it has been there for 20 years operating in this space. So they operate contact centers and call centers across, you know, 40 locations and globally with 20,000 people.
00:35:47:13 - 00:36:10:08
Unknown
So this is a space that we all understand very, very well. Right. We understand the business process. Right. And then technology is what we want to use to improve those operational processes, bring efficiencies, increase productivity, reduce cost or increase revenue for our customers, have the impact, deliver on those business outcomes. And it's quite easy to deliver on those business outcomes.
00:36:10:08 - 00:36:38:13
Unknown
Right. So this is the space. So we ringfenced it that okay we will operate not everything. We can't do everything. So we will operate in this space because we know this space extremely well. Sensible start where you start where you're an expert. Exactly. And then we said okay, how do we make lives easier? Right. What can we create where either a call center agent taking a call, his or her life is easier, or a customer's life is easier, right?
00:36:38:15 - 00:37:01:05
Unknown
And that's where the thinking came in from. Okay. The inception was when the company itself grew to around 8 to 10,000 people, and we required tools and technologies to be able to manage that kind of a diverse workforce across different locations. So we needed something known as the employee lifecycle management. And that was the first software that we developed.
00:37:01:09 - 00:37:37:02
Unknown
All right. And that's how it was. It was born. And over a period of time we saw, okay, how do we continuously now bring in more products that can really enhance and that can make things much, much better? So one of the tools that we have is very interesting. So let's say you and I are talking, we can take the call recording, drop it into our AI tool and the AI is this, let's say to our call, the AI can just go through it in a few, let's say 30s or within a minute and really give us a concise of what has happened and even rate it.
00:37:37:04 - 00:37:59:05
Unknown
Okay. So now now, why is this important in this particular context? As I mentioned, that we understand this very well. Now when you are running large contact centers, and when I say large contact centers, like for example, let's take any of the banks or any of the travel companies, they all have a lot of headcount doing customer service because there are millions of calls coming in.
00:37:59:07 - 00:38:22:14
Unknown
There are a lot of emails coming in. There's a lot of chat that's happening, and today it's become even more complex. So in this space you have the complexity of volumes, and then you have the complexity of multilingual because not everybody speaks English. All right. So that's why it's a complex area. Now imagine if you're receiving, you know, 15 calls in Norwegian.
00:38:22:19 - 00:38:45:10
Unknown
You still need a couple of people to, to be able to answer, even if the volume is low. So there is a lot of things that's happening in that space. Right. So therefore the application of genetic genetic AI agent I sorry, the generative AI is is absolutely, important here. And we see a huge fitment there that this is where you could.
00:38:45:14 - 00:39:09:19
Unknown
So this tool actually is implemented in about 64 projects at the moment after we launched. So it has been a immensely successful tool. So you can monitor anything from 1% to 100% of interactions that's happening, whether it's on email or on for now. Why this is important is because if you were to do this manually, you can only monitor like 1 or 2% of the sample.
00:39:09:19 - 00:39:29:04
Unknown
So that means let's say if you're receiving 1000 calls today, you could barely listen to 1 or 2% humanly. But with the AI coming in, you can deal with it. You can crunch the information you can listen to. Okay, what your customers are saying, take the voice of the customer and really make good improvements that can impact your customer experience, right.
00:39:29:06 - 00:39:47:13
Unknown
So this is one of the tools. The other product is called Aria. As you as you know, my name is Justin. Talk show. Very complicated, difficult to pronounce. So I was inspired by Aria Berta, who gave a concept of zero to the world. But Aryabhata is a is a bit of a tongue twister for the Western world.
00:39:47:13 - 00:40:13:00
Unknown
So I said, okay, I want to give it a simple name, so that's easy. So I said, okay, we'll keep it as Aria, you know. So Aria, what I thought is that if I can put this engine in a real time call when somebody is assisting, a customer and, and an aria is able to become like, assistant, copilot to the customer service agent because there are tons of information right?
00:40:13:00 - 00:40:33:03
Unknown
Like, for example, let's say you're in a bank now, the amount of information that you need to know from all sorts of products to all sorts of things that needs to happen, it's too much sometimes for, for for the customer support agent. Right? So it's an assist. It also listens in, at the back end and greets your call or greets how you're doing.
00:40:33:04 - 00:40:51:00
Unknown
It also coaches you continuously because when you when you put this in a, in a human to human scenario, you know, you could have one supervisor is to 20 customer service agents. Right. So it's not a 1 to 1 ratio. But if you have the AI and it's robust, continuous improvement can be brought into a one is to one ratio.
00:40:51:00 - 00:41:15:06
Unknown
Because the AI can operate at a one is to one level. Right. So those were some of the benefits that we saw. And therefore we came up with Aria. That's the other two. And the third tool is you know voice bot where you can have a conversational human like, conversation, which can take, you know, calls which are, let's say, situations like, for example, your call center is busy just in an example.
00:41:15:06 - 00:41:39:16
Unknown
Right. And but there are still sometimes demand. Right. And people are calling in, you don't have people to take care of those. You could divert this into the voice bot and they could take care or, during the night, you could diverted into the voice bot. It talks like a human. It's well trained. So it can take and handle at least, a certain amount of calls, that are coming in in decent way.
00:41:39:16 - 00:42:06:17
Unknown
Yeah. And if you integrate it fully, then it's able to process a lot of transactions as well. So that's the other other one that, we have come up with this is fascinating. And I can I know that there will be hopefully people are listening, but there will be questions around, does this mean that there is potential for this to, take people's jobs, you know, will we need call center operatives?
00:42:06:17 - 00:42:27:23
Unknown
I think you've mentioned a few times you still need people, and I'm of the mind that AI is a tool to improve people's jobs and efficiency. So that would be the way that I would think. But the way you've described it seems like there would be potential almost for AI to to do that job. Is that how you see it or is there no risk there for that?
00:42:28:01 - 00:42:49:20
Unknown
I see it's it's hard to predict, to be honest. Very. You know, first of all, I must I must really acknowledge that because because when I say hard to predict, it's because it's difficult to imagine. It's difficult to sit here and imagine, you know how it's going to be looking like. Right? Just like somebody who was using the horses and carriages.
00:42:49:20 - 00:43:20:14
Unknown
And then if you were to tell them, you know, driverless cars, it would be very hard for that person to really imagine. Yeah, they're right. So it's very difficult today, right now to imagine this. However, I do not believe that it's going to replace humans, right? I believe it's going to be a co-creator, because if you look at the application today, right, most of the technology and most of the gen AI and the AI that's coming is more of a co-creator, it's more of a copilot, right?
00:43:20:19 - 00:43:51:19
Unknown
It's not really replacing. And then, of course, there will always be exceptions. They will always be. And that has to be handled. What it does is, is, is basically, it is able to really help you when it comes to volumes and complexities, where a human is unable to handle. So let's say if you are a HR, okay, and you have just received today 5000 CVS now, yeah.
00:43:51:19 - 00:44:13:21
Unknown
If you were to read that manually and short list, it's probably gonna take a long time. Right. And then add to it the pressure to be able to really sift through it, because the candidates are not waiting for you to call back because they will find another job if they don't get it right. So you are in this pressure cooker scenario, right, where you have different things to happen.
00:44:13:23 - 00:44:36:09
Unknown
So so that is where I see the use coming in strongly, because the AI then can pass the resume isn't a very, very quick, fashion. And then yeah, help make a decision that, okay, these are 1000 which looks good. This is the job description that you have given. Right. And that is where it's extremely useful. So I don't think it replaces that human element.
00:44:36:09 - 00:45:00:02
Unknown
But what it does is compliments the human to become far more productive, far more efficient. And that's where I think the use is going to be. Yeah, I agree, there's the the explanation. I can't remember who said it, but AI is not going to take over jobs. It's going to take over the jobs of the people who aren't using AI or something to that effect.
00:45:00:02 - 00:45:29:09
Unknown
So the people who are not adopting it, are going to be left behind almost, I suppose, and that I guess that applies to businesses as well. Have you met any resistance? From, you know, businesses when you're, you know, pitching this idea or support? Well, resistance not to the concept, not to the solutions, but I think, people are not taking decisions as quickly as we thought they would.
00:45:29:09 - 00:45:50:11
Unknown
Right? That people would jump and enterprises would be, oh, you know, wow, lo and behold, this is it. You know, let's just get on to it. So that's not happening. People are carefully cautious. You know, and I think rightly so, because, you got to evaluate everything, right? So that is definitely happening. It's not like, you know, every customer that we talk to is saying, hey, you know, let's sign it.
00:45:50:11 - 00:45:59:01
Unknown
You know, here's the contract. Now it's I think people recognize that. Yeah, exactly. I'm using that.
00:45:59:03 - 00:46:21:02
Unknown
Brilliant. Yeah. I think it's, I mean, it's an interesting topic in in AI is definitely a hot topic. At the moment in terms of your, you know, you've done a lot of things, you've been really curious. You've transition between industries, learned a lot. You seem like the type person is always going to be learning and asking questions.
00:46:21:21 - 00:46:49:20
Unknown
Which I think is, a valuable trait in any entrepreneur. But how how do you personally stay focused and motivated, especially with, you know, challenging time situations, going into different environments and having to, you know, up, uplift your life into a different city? Like how how do you stay motivated, to keep going. Thank you. That's a very important question.
00:46:49:20 - 00:47:10:17
Unknown
I think, it's it's very important, you know, because sometimes it can really get overwhelming, like, like you said, I think I try and think of myself, as much as possible in the purpose, you know, really being very clear of that. Right. Okay. What am I trying to do, you know, at any time or let's say a period?
00:47:11:05 - 00:47:29:12
Unknown
I think anchoring in purpose is something that I do very often really try and be very clear of my purpose. Right. What am I building? Why am I building? What am I doing? You know, what is my role here? Even. Even, you know, when I came here, you know, new country, I was very clear. Okay.
00:47:29:12 - 00:48:04:03
Unknown
You know, I need to be, transitioning into this commercial role, right? And that was my purpose. And I need to be successful. So there was no, question of not being successful. And that kind of motivated me to really, put my heart and mind and soul into into into it, it it it also stems from the fact that, you know, as I mentioned, growing up, seeing so many different real life problems, there was this innate desire to be able to make an impact and solve those kind of problems.
00:48:04:03 - 00:48:27:10
Unknown
Right. And I think that also motivates me. And, when, when the path is murky, as I mentioned, I always go and find somebody to talk to hook who with whom I can collaborate, seek advice. And that could very well be my wife. It could be my ex-boss, it could be anybody who I think may have the right advice for me.
00:48:27:12 - 00:48:46:04
Unknown
Right? If it's if it's financial, I try and find somebody like a chartered accountant or somebody like that who is more experienced, know more knowledge. That's good. Yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah. Exactly. And and if it has been something legal, then I go and I have a very good friend who's was a lawyer and I speak to him and they say, okay, look, this is the situation.
00:48:46:04 - 00:49:05:05
Unknown
What do you think? You know, what's your situation? Right? And I think going to the right people is, is always important, right. Like marketing as a as I mentioned. Right. I mean, going to that person who really has done it, it makes a lot of difference. And, and then I, I carve out time for reflection. So that really helps me.
00:49:05:15 - 00:49:30:18
Unknown
I cannot operate with a cluttered mind. So it's important for me to really, for my head to be really clear. So that means, I, I walk a lot. I go out for a walk, you know, quite often it helps me clear. And, sometimes is spending time in quietness and a bit of meditation also is very, very helpful because I think that helps you avoid that tunnel vision.
00:49:31:11 - 00:49:54:03
Unknown
Sometimes you could you could get into that, and everything is, is moving so fast in today's world. Right. So I think that that clarity is, is very important. And it's also important to understand the fact that you will not have clarity by just sitting here. You will have clarity as you iterate right as you go through the process.
00:49:54:05 - 00:50:12:18
Unknown
You know, I mean, when you start thinking of building, you know, entrepreneurship is not like, okay, oh, this is my idea. This is what I'm thinking, okay. It's going to be a hit. It actually doesn't work that way. You got to be really adaptive. And I think you got to really pivot and you've got to take each day at a time.
00:50:12:18 - 00:50:32:13
Unknown
But be very clear during that time. Right. And and keep your head very, very clear. So I think those are some of the things that has that has helped me. Stay sane. Yeah. And and it works for me. You know, I'm not sure how it works for others, but it's worked for me. Like, you know, being able to practice this.
00:50:32:15 - 00:50:59:21
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? I, I read something once around, creative people or creativity comes to people in periods of solitude and quiet so that you've got that, space for ideas to float in, move around a bit and float out again. Or doing something really like manual and mundane, you know, like I said, walking, walking into that, chat.
00:50:59:21 - 00:51:20:12
Unknown
People get ideas in the shower. You know, all of that sort of, sort of narrative. But yes, it's interesting point on the reflection, because I was having a conversation with a leadership coach this morning and she was saying that, you know, she often gets to a point, you know, 2 or 3 months down the line and is always looking forward, like, what's the next thing?
00:51:20:12 - 00:51:40:14
Unknown
What's the next thing? And then forgetting to take a moment to reflect on all of the, the work and progress that's gone. And I think ambitious people tend to do that don't they. Like what's the next thing. Where am I going next. And not reflecting enough on on what's gone before. So it's good that you're taking that time.
00:51:40:16 - 00:52:10:05
Unknown
I do process and process and like you said, it's probably, helping create those ideas. That isn't it. If you're taking that time. Well, I'm sure you're familiar with the bag. Yes, absolutely. Yes, of course you are. What? I mean, you've you've moved, you pivoted, you transitioned. So what is the next? And for everyone listening, it stands for big Hairy Audacious goal.
00:52:10:07 - 00:52:50:02
Unknown
So what is your. You'll be happy. Where are you going next? So, with regard to all mind. Right. You know, I think as I mentioned earlier, about 150% growth is what we are looking at this year. I think that is one bag. It's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a it's a good number to go after. So immediately for the next 12 months I think that's, that's probably, you know on the commercial side in what we are doing on the, on the personal side, I want to be able to take time out at least a week to week and, go trekking in Nepal.
00:52:50:02 - 00:53:14:04
Unknown
So that's been something on my list for a very long time. Right. So, if I can do that over the next 12 months, then I think, I'll be quite, quite. I'll consider that as achieving my bags for this year. After after the after this year. It's, it's, it's it's a little unclear at this moment because, there are various options.
00:53:14:06 - 00:53:32:05
Unknown
And as I mentioned, you know, there are certain plans of the parent company as well. So it's slightly unclear at this point in time, but I, I'm pretty sure that for this 12 months, you know, these two probably would be, might be, for the next 12 months. Brilliant, brilliant I love I love people's backstories. I'm like, what is it?
00:53:32:05 - 00:54:00:23
Unknown
Tell me, tell me. That's wonderful. That's wonderful. Do you have, do you have a drawer or a pull back to where you grew up to look at solving some of those problems you mentioned earlier because you've you've said about the drawer and your values and things like that. And I'm wondering if there might be a future where you've discovered a way to solve some of those problems somewhere, yourself maybe, or with a new business.
00:54:01:01 - 00:54:25:08
Unknown
Absolutely. That's, that's that's always in my mind. So, there are certain problems which I feel, although I could, I won't I mean, I wish I could do something, but sometimes you are so challenged that it's not. It's not something that you can solve so easily. Right. It's become so complex. Yeah. So. So there are things that are close to my heart.
00:54:25:09 - 00:54:47:04
Unknown
Like, for example, one thing that always bothers me is like, how do you create an ecosystem so that, you know, for the youth, you could you could make entrepreneurship accessible. Maybe, maybe get more involved in the startup side. Maybe, maybe create some ecosystem there. So that's a that's a conscious effort, which I keep exploring, trying to see if there is a way in.
00:54:47:04 - 00:55:19:10
Unknown
It's not easy being here. And then especially the last two years has not been easy because it's been extremely unstable. Politically. So that's a difficult thing right now. However, in whatever small ways, and I cannot share too much details, but, I did meet, some officials and, I did, I did a POC for them using AI, which can solve a lot of things that's happening there, which is unaccounted for.
00:55:19:12 - 00:55:53:09
Unknown
Okay. And because of my confidentiality, I cannot I cannot elaborate too much, but very interesting problems. So these are like real problems, but real problems that the government is facing. Real challenges. And, we see I could potentially help and we did Apoc policy was extremely successful and we were we were having conversations for further, you know, elaborating and taking the proof of concept into a full time, solution.
00:55:53:11 - 00:56:16:06
Unknown
Unfortunately, the government collapsed. So we are where we are at this point in time. So we just hoping that things stabilize. So it's a it's a, you know, it's it's a bit of a disappointment for me personally, but, I was so excited finally being able to do something, you know, there. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure you'll find a way.
00:56:16:08 - 00:56:37:17
Unknown
It's something I'm looking looking forward to it. Yeah, yeah. Oh. That's wonderful. That's really. I mean, some things are going to be out of your control on there, and you need to do what you can do. Yeah. So yeah, the, the effort and the, the willing is there, but sometimes you just can't. Yeah. Yeah. The, the time I spend so interesting, I feel like we could talk for hours.
00:56:38:14 - 00:57:06:17
Unknown
Speaker I'm going to end on, on a question that, you know, ties it back up with the word alchemy is really important to me, right? Because I feel like the people that I talk to who are doing amazing things are literally creating something from nothing. And I think that story is wonderful. So imagine you've got a personal alchemy formula.
00:57:06:19 - 00:57:28:02
Unknown
What's the one ingredient you can't do without and Y in your recipe pot? Oh, wow. Well, well, that's a tricky one, but I think, I think I'll, I'll stick to the question and just mention one. You can have more than one if you like one, that's fine. You know, as a stick to the to the to the question.
00:57:28:02 - 00:57:49:18
Unknown
So I think the one ingredient that I can't do without is, curiosity because, you know, it sparks that drive that everything else like innovation, resilience and impact, right, that we spoke of. Because, you got to ask, you know, what's possible, what's broken, you know, how can we do better? And what impact does this have? You know what?
00:57:49:20 - 00:58:20:12
Unknown
Whatever I'm doing, you know, is this is this really innovation or am I just not innovating and just trying to make a quick buck? Yeah. So I think I think these questions only comes in once you are curious and you want to really find this out. And, and I would say that is is very, very important. I feel, you know, because without that I would have probably not been able to ask the right questions and go down a path that is much more clear.
00:58:21:11 - 00:58:47:11
Unknown
So I think curiosity definitely should be should be that ingredient. I love that that is a great, great answer. And I think that would be in my recipe part two. Definitely. Yeah. Thank you so much for your time. I feel like we probably need to bring you back in a year or so to see if you've managed to, you know, get more detail on that project that you were talking about, and seeing where you're at, see what country you're in for.
00:58:47:12 - 00:59:07:11
Unknown
Star. What industry? I think that would be. That would be brilliant. But I really, really appreciate your time is really fascinating. Absolutely. Jess, it was a pleasure. Thank you so much. And I would love to be back. Thank you. Brilliant. Thank you very much. All right. Thank you. Have a good day. Thanks. Bye bye. Alex, you can come back in now.
00:59:07:16 - 00:59:08:11
Unknown
Thank you. So.