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Host Sean Frost is joined by experts in the manufacturing industry to discuss bringing big ideas to life. Join us every episode for a deep dive into manufacturing trends, processes, innovation, and how to be successful in the ever-changing world of manufacturing.
Ep14_RodHolter_final
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[00:00:00]
Sean Frost: So welcome to another episode of inspiring innovation. We release a new episode every second Tuesday of the month and just want to thank our listeners and our subscribers for tuning in today, we've got an exciting episode our audience is supply chain, professionals, sourcing people, engineers really anyone in the manufacturing space.
And today we're going to be talking about a hot topic, which is saving money and cost reductions, which everybody is interested in the manufacturing world and we've got a great guest to with a lot of expertise in [00:01:00] that area to talk to us today. So Rod Holter has a background in big box aviation with.
Big titles like vice president, general manager was in quality engineering has a lot of background with Cessna and some really big names and then got into private equity. Which I'm also fascinated to hear more about. Looking forward to digging into that and now a franchise owner of Schooley Mitchell.
So we've got a lot to dig into today. We're really excited to have Rod with us. And so thank you for joining us, Rod.
Rod Holter: Thank you, Sean. Glad to be here.
Sean Frost: Yeah. Yeah. Can you speak to your aviation days and your background there And how you got into the aviation world and what you did in some of those different big box manufacturers.
Rod Holter: Yeah, I've been in aviation or retired from aviation. And I tell you how many years I'm really old, but I, but over 40 years in the aviation aviation background. And [00:02:00] I started out more on the sidelines and support of aviation. So I was in production control, material management. And then then I worked into manufacture engineering and my background wasn't that, but that was a day when they had good mentor programs.
And I was, I've always thought that you just need to raise your hand and say I'm in, I'll volunteer. And I would do that regularly in my career. And that's, that always proved out to be a good thing, but I started out with in doing that at Piper Aircraft and And they said, I need somebody to go down to Florida.
Would you like to go? And of course, the young guy Florida, I'm in. And so I went to Florida and I helped start a new aircraft model up there. And then I looked at opportunities along the way, if it was the right time for me to move and change career, change companies, I would do that and I would be very selective about what I would do, but I.
I ended up working in [00:03:00] Nashville, Tennessee, with a company called Textron Aerostructures. And and I ended up retiring from Textron. They were also the owners of Cessna aircraft. And eventually that was my path to to Cessna was through through Textron Aviation. And I did. Did quite a stint there with them, but I was, I started out manufacturer engineering.
They moved me in. I was on this airplane. Nobody's heard much of called a B1B bomber. And I was the lead engineer on the wing assembly. And it was a lot different than building a Piper cub, it was completely different, but you learn your way through that. And it was it was a good career.
And I was, and I went from being an ME to the ME manager to the head of all the ME. And I knew that I felt like I was pigeonholed and I was always in a job that was on the sidelines. So I was in the support roles, whether it was materials production [00:04:00] control, material management, that type of thing or engineering.
And I did a thing the later the CEO said, be careful what you ask for. And so I, I asked for a meeting with him and I sat down with him and I. And I said, I think I do a good job at what I'm doing and you're probably going to keep me in that job forever if I don't ask to do something different.
And I said, I want to be engaged. I don't want to be on the sideline any longer. And, He appreciated the conversation and I went away and probably a month passed and I thought nothing's going to come out of that. And he called me to his office. And then said exactly.
Remember that conversation? Yes, we'll be careful what you ask for, because what you ask for is what you will get. And so he assigned me the role of promoted me to a director and assigned me two roles. I had two factories and one, one factory was where we were stationed in Nashville and the other one was in Columbus, Georgia.
Okay. he just [00:05:00] challenged me and said, I'm going to support whatever decision you make the Columbus, Georgia plant. We don't make enough money to keep the lights on. I want you to go down there and sort it out and decide what you want to do. And there were 64 people there.
Sean Frost: Wow.
Rod Holter: it was kind of small and, and I went down there and I knew what I needed to do.
But when I got down there and met the people, it was different. It was about now that every, the names and families and we made a deal. Between the people and I and I went out and did business development when it wasn't called business development. Back then it was just sales and won several large contracts.
And in a matter of a couple years, we went from 64 to 440. Nice. And turned it around and made it a profitable business. And that was my gateway into Cessna then. So it was, it was fantastic. It was nice. And from then on, it's been in. In building the product. So I've been responsible for the manufacturing of the airplane and or large pieces of and then [00:06:00] later in private equity.
It was very important pieces that went into the aircraft.
Sean Frost: how do you transition from manufacturing into private equity?
Rod Holter: I was in my last big box company was Spirit Aerosystems for a period of time and I knew I needed to do something different. And I. Had just came back from an interview with this little company called Honda Jet, and they had offered me a job to, to be their chief operating officer and I was sitting there trying to decide, do I want to do that and which is going to be more of the same or something different and good Lord, about that time, a friend of mine, reached out to me.
We actually saw each other in the airport. I was coming back from my interview and he was going down the hallway. And he says, we were just talking about you. he said, I have an opportunity for you. And he introduced me to to a company in private equity where I was a general manager.
And I had had a couple of different facilities there I was responsible for. So [00:07:00] that was my Had no idea what I was getting into other than I knew I was going to do something different.
Sean Frost: Yeah. So were you. Overseeing more of the operation side or just, and looking at numbers and until
Rod Holter: the entire P and L.
So at that point, we're before in the big box companies, you were responsible. I was responsible for a budget. So a head count. Spend and things like that but never really like the entire material costs at that point because you had another materials group that did that.
So it was more around do you have the right staffing, the right people, the right training, and are you delivering a good quality product? and at that point around just shy of a billion dollars in revenue. Which was a big job, but it was actually easier because there was more processes in place when I moved over into private equity.
Now you're responsible. I was responsible. I say you were I was responsible for the bottom line, right? So I had [00:08:00] the whole P and L. So that had to, I had to fall back on some of my previous experiences and the material side, the engineering side and adjust. And it was it was the first the first, my first place job in private equity was tough.
It was hard it was intended to be a buy, a buy, improve and flip and they still own it. This was, 10 years ago. It's it's become a different a different strategy today than it was back 10 years ago. So I've been doing that for the latter part of my career.
Yeah.
Sean Frost: Yeah, I was going to say, it seems like there's a lot of stigmas associated with private equity and you mentioned the flip and why would you say that people get wrong about it and what is the shift
Rod Holter: to
Sean Frost: the day?
Rod Holter: I view that there's really two private equity Approaches and there may be more, but it's two that I'm certainly accustomed to.
One, [00:09:00] one is, as I just mentioned, you buy it, they buy the company, they improve it and then they flip it. And they sell it for a multiplier of the EBIT. and that's, one uh, one group. And then there's another group of private equity where it is very much, I'm going to buy it. I have a strategy.
I want to get into that business. I'm going to invest in it and I'm going to grow it and the returns out of that growth is how myself, the investor and my other co investors will get paid. So those two different kinds of groups, and I have those two different kinds of groups as, clients of mine today.
So I have two private equity groups that are our clients and the, I think the, the latter of the two the buy, invest, improve and and hang on to it and grow a portfolio. That is that is certainly. Gets mixed in when you talk private equity with the other, that is, I'm just going [00:10:00] to go through it and and get the best I can out of it.
And sometimes it's a little bit shallow in the improvements. So we have to be careful with that.
Sean Frost: Absolutely. And so I think that's also a good transition into Schooley Mitchell and how you got there. And if you don't mind just talking about what Schooley Mitchell is and then what you do as the owner of that.
Rod Holter: a little bit of why is I knew that I was I've been traveling a lot. Work. I was working out of state in Washington state. My family was in Kansas and I was there during COVID and could not come home and I was stuck. And I thought, this. I think I'm ready to go home.
Began looking at what other opportunities could there be? Cause I know myself well enough that I can't sit still. And so I, worked with a franchise broker and she helped me with Selecting the right franchise based on my personality, my, my hobbies, my family, what did I [00:11:00] want to do?
And so she did the interview. If you haven't been through the process, it's really a good process to go through, but she interviewed me. And then said, I'll come back in a couple of weeks and I'll tell you what I think. And she came back with eight different options for me to look at.
And Schooley Mitchell was one of those. I never even heard of Schooley Mitchell as well as you probably have never heard of Schooley Mitchell until you met me. It is it's the largest cost reduction consulting firm in North America. But a lot of people don't know about it. And it's And then you don't see a lot of advertising and that type of thing.
I listened to her explain the business and I said, I was on the other side of this. I was responsible for the PNL. I was spending that money. But I can remember sitting there looking at the accounts payable and getting ready to approve it for the month or the weeks and look at the spend and say, why does trash this, why does it cost so damn [00:12:00] much?
And you talk to your purchasing leader and he'll say, Hey, we negotiated it. And that's what it is. And he knew that what he was chasing more so was the direct cost products. He was chasing, do you have enough aluminum? Do we have enough parts to build the product we're going to deliver to generate cash and that tended to be the focus and not on the overhead.
So I, I looked at it and said, you know, I think this is something that I. When I'm sitting down with a a prospect I can relate to where they're at with my background and tell them what, how I feel about what I've experienced as I had in their same shoes.
Sean Frost: Yeah. Yeah. Now that sounds like a natural tie in for sure.
And it was good fit. I believe a great service for manufacturers and, other businesses to be able to take advantage of. So can you talk more to that? Basically why people may just accept that. The cost of doing business are what they are.
Rod Holter: [00:13:00] There's a lot of reasons. In today's world, it is staffing. There is just not. I find many of my clients, they just don't have the people to do to do the job. So staffing is one.
But the, really the, at the heart of it is the knowledge and at Schooley Mitchell we have 14 categories, cost categories that we are experts in and uh, the groups that support me and my franchise. Talk about waste for a second. There is a waste group and all they do is all day long is do waste deals.
They negotiate waste deals and so they know exactly what a 4 cubic yard dumpster is. That's empty twice a week. That's sitting in Long Island, New York, or it's in central United States or in California. I know exactly what that should cost because we have the data. So we have an incredible database because we have [00:14:00] close to 30, 000 clients, And so we have that data and our, clients don't have that data. They don't have that knowledge. And so that, that differentiates us from, purchasing a manager doing this job. And it's not that a purchasing manager is doing a bad job. It's they're doing the best job with the data that they have.
And so where we come in is we bring that additional data and dig a little deeper and, find out whether they're getting the best deal. Yeah. Have a story around that. A good friend of mine, a good friend of mine owns a manufacturing facility, a machine shop in the Wichita area.
And I went in to talk to him when I bought my franchise he's my customer number five, I think. And. I was sitting there talking to him and he said, we've already negotiated waste. We just got done doing that. And we negotiated small package shipping with FedEx UPS and, and we, we rang it out.
It was [00:15:00] grueling. We went back and forth with him and, and I said well, you know, part of the, the beauty of the Schooley Mitchell franchise is there's no money up front. It's a hundred percent contingent based. And so if I don't find savings, you don't pay me. And if I find savings and you decide you want to implement that, we share.
And so I said, why don't you just let me have a look just for giggles. And you'll, then you'll know for sure. And in about a month, we came back and. And I sat down with him and I said, so here's a $10,000 a year savings in your FedEx UPS and then here's another $8000 in your, in your waist, your dumpsters.
And he looked at me, he says, how the hell did you do that? you know, and as I've learned more, and I was relatively new at that time, but as I've learned more, when you're negotiating with somebody that is being the large part of their compensation is commission, they're not going to give you everything that's available.
They're going to give you what makes you happy. And when they [00:16:00] see your body language become happy. Then they stop. But if you're still pressing and they're good at reading it, they're trained to know how to read it and they know how much to give. And we're us, we were totally objective. We represent our client and we know what it should be.
And we drive to what it should be or better. And that's so we bring that knowledge. Nice. It's cool. Yeah.
Sean Frost: What are some of the other categories that are usually big drivers?
Rod Holter: Yeah, in the manufacturing side which the focus this is the focus here is there, there's, of course, there's always communications.
Telecom is what the business was founded on. So any kind of communication inbound or outbound, whether it's a mobile phones, desk phones voice over IP. Internet, all those costs are one that everybody has and we almost always find savings in that. It's a very high percentage. In fact, 95 percent [00:17:00] of the time we find savings.
That's how large it is. Yeah. Wow. And then the follow it up on manufacturing, the next two are waste and also a small package shipping. That's and which then also bleeds over into LTL. If they have, they're paying for inbound materials and things like that, less than truckload shipments.
So those are three of the large categories. And. And that's generally where we find the majority of the savings. But then the other categories like factory supplies, rags, and things like, things that are used in the shop. Yeah. Those are, those all add up. I'm sure. Safety glasses, you know, if it bleeds over into the medical side, Then gloves and then disposing of bio waste and things like that.
Exactly. All those things. So we go over into that. If it's a fuel, we're doing deals on fuel to get the best deal, especially if a company has a large [00:18:00] fleet. Of trucks and cars. We do the fuel deals and things like that. So there's a 14 different commodities not any one company does all 14.
You can transport Schooley Mitchell into a medical field. You can go to a nonprofit. But I navigate towards manufacturing because that's my background. Yeah, for sure.
Sean Frost: Yeah, sure. Makes a lot of sense. You touched on this, but maybe we could go a little deeper on this, which is why is it difficult for manufacturers to negotiate good pricing sometimes with some of their vendors? Yeah,
Rod Holter: At the core is, is the knowledge, is having the data
that, that's the I think probably the single largest challenge and then second is time and where that relates to just there's other burning platforms going on right now. Give you an example. I did a call sales call. With the CFO and he said, Rod, [00:19:00] everything you're explaining, I know we don't do, and I know that money is just flying out the window.
It's, we're burning it up. He said, but right now I am dealing so much with inflationary costs and all my direct material spend. That's where it's all hands on deck. It's getting it in time. And. And also not paying an exorbitant amount where we, we won't be able to stay in business.
So that, that tends to be some is just focuses and other things that, bigger fires to put out and they let the other, the others go through. And if you take those 14 categories and you start, it's like death by a thousand cuts and you stack those all up. That can add up to be about 15 percent of the operating costs of the company.
And, but individually they're not. They're little bitty line items. And, but when you add them up, it can be a significant savings for a company.
Sean Frost: Absolutely. Yeah. That's great.
How can a company leverage [00:20:00] savings to further enhance their spending goals?
Rod Holter: I've been doing this about two and a half years now in, in this business and what I've, I just assumed that everybody will want to save money. And that was that was, no, that's not true, right?
Not everybody wants to save money. So I've run into business owners that have. That have, they have their lake house, they have a nice car, they're doing well, business is good, they're making a lot of money, and they just look at this and say, I don't want to put with it, and I never thought that would happen because the entrepreneurial spirit would say, you don't let that happen to you.
And, but but it does happen and and I've had others that say, we just don't have time. We're focused on this or we're focused on that. Yeah. And what I started doing is changing the conversation to what could you do with that money? So let's suppose we save you money and what could you do with that money?
And now I have a [00:21:00] conversation with them. If I see it going that direction, they're hesitating. And I said, what about your employees? Are you paying your employees enough? Do you have good benefits for your employees? Are you investing in the community? Are, what's your philanthropy budget look like?
There's other ways that you could take that savings and do good, whether it's internally or external to your business or the community that your people your team comes from. And then also you can invest it in new technology, maybe it's a new machine, maybe it's new technology you've been thinking about doing, but you really didn't want to spend the money.
This is found money now and you can go go grow that. So that's helped with opening the eyes of potential clients. and I think going at, when it comes to doing that and talking to the mentioned or supply chain, purchasing folks that listen to this podcast, I, one of my largest challenges I have is if I go against a purchasing [00:22:00] person and I would.
I would suggest to you that are in that business. Don't look at somebody like Schooley Mitchell as a threat. Look at it as an additional tool and because most of the encounters that I have, it's a threat. They believe that I'm going to make them look bad and what they're doing and I have a purchasing Director that I'm working with today and we have a prior relationship and so it works well and we talk to each other the right way and it works well and he's doing his.
Techniques and I'm trying to help him get to his goals and it works. So make sure you're open minded to that. And that's what I would say to the folks that are in the supply chain side, be open minded to having help because none of us know everything. The more expertise we can bring in the better off we are.
Sean Frost: [00:23:00] Now that's great advice. And that's funny that you would need to sell saving money and paint a vision of what they could do with it. but that is inspiring. I'm sure for folks that don't feel like they want to mess with it, to think about, how they could support their communities or their employees and yeah, that's that's.
But yeah not intuitive that's the way you were getting into everybody's
Rod Holter: busy and we're all busy. We're either trying to survive or we're trying to grow our business. And whatever that, whatever is keeping everybody busy. It's often quite a distraction towards some of the things that we offer.
And, And it's, it makes a lot of sense in relating back to like private equity, for example, when you save a dollar with private equity group especially if it's the type a, which is I'm going to buy and prove it and flip it, a dollar is not a dollar to them. A dollar is the, is a basis for the multiplier [00:24:00] of EBIT.
So if you save a dollar for a private equity group, they look at that and say, That's $10. That's not $1. That's $10 because that every dollar saved drops right down to the bottom line. It's all sunk costs. So if you get that, those dollars back it's profit. Yeah. So multiply it and it's the multiplier.
Yeah. So I have one client, you know, you save them $150,000 a year. And so you're talking about over, over a million dollars and that's how they view it. Yeah. So everybody should look at it as it's not always just the actual savings. That's what that savings can do. And one of those things you need to ask earlier about what do you, how do you talk to different owners that may not ask them, I said, are you preparing for sale or are you thinking about selling your business one day, or are you going to hand it over to to your children or somebody like that?
And if you're preparing to sell. This could make a big [00:25:00] difference in how you retire, how you walk away.
Sean Frost: Yeah. And that's a really prevalent point today. That's, a lot of the workforce is turned over and retired. And I've heard the same thing from a business ownership standpoint.
There's a lot of people that are, are uh, getting ready to do just that. Yep.
Rod Holter: There's a great deal of folks that are in my age group That are getting ready to retire out and not all have an exit plan. You have an exit strategy, they may not have a family to turn over or a family doesn't want to do the same business that dad did.
And they how do you take care of that? How do you take care of your employees that are there? That, that got you to that point. Yeah. Those are all considerations.
Sean Frost: Yeah and, I'm not sure I don't remember off the top of my head how long you've been with Schooley Mitchell, but I did wonder it seems pricing, negotiations, all of that stuff.
been flipped or [00:26:00] discombobulated at least since, since COVID. And so I was curious what your data has said in terms of any large changes or dynamics that are worth discussing potentially for our manufacturing audience at all.
Rod Holter: Of course, costs are going up with everybody. It's going everybody is faced with inflationary pressure.
So the, one of the ways to combat that is, is by getting the best deal you can get from your supplier. So why would you pay? Somebody that hauls your trash off. That's not critical to your to delivering a component to your client. It's just a, one of those necessary evils.
Why would you pay more than that? I had a potential client that we're talking with now and And he said why would I want to pay the trash guy more when I could take that savings and use it on my employees? I said, you're getting it. That's exactly the right thing.
And so those kinds of things the, and [00:27:00] their costs are going up to their fuel prices have gone up, everything that they do is going up too. So the deals are a little bit more difficult now than they were a few years ago. But they're still there and there's still significant savings and a company is doing well and growing.
And if they're growing fast, sometimes that's. That's a good thing for Schooley Mitchell because when they're growing fast they tend to are focused on what's causing the growth and direct product costs. I have enough raw material and they're focused on that and making sure they deliver to the client customers and maybe not so much on the The hidden costs.
So it's it's still a good viable business.
Sean Frost: Definitely. Definitely. I feel like you're personally calling me. No, I'm just kidding. No, Polo is growing fast. But it did make me think of to, you know, we have a really talented logistics person and she always alerts our [00:28:00] sales team, Hey, This is the estimate of the impact of the bridge that fell in Baltimore and what amount of cargo ships that might tie up and that could mean to, traffic and the impacts that it could have.
And this is the way you can communicate to your customers. And it seems I don't know that this to be true. Maybe it's just because we have 24 7 news and apps and feeds and all that kind of stuff that alert us to world events frequently, but it does seem like there's a lot of things that have impacted.
Freight and trade and things like that. And so I didn't know if that was a trend that that you've seen. I mean, fuel being one of them already that we've discussed, but other world events that, that have led to Costs going up in, in some of those arenas.
Rod Holter: Yeah. And it, And it has, and it's made, it certainly has impacted it.
And so it makes the. Maybe a better the real really good deals, a little more difficult to get, but it [00:29:00] doesn't mean you still can't get there. And it's also. The big thing that's relevant in that is where is my client today? And they can be sitting in a spot where they're so far away from an average deal and have been doing it for years that one client $35,000 a year in FedEx UPS shipment savings.
And. they have not had any discounts for ever, just never negotiated never even knew they, they could part of it's teaching to you. So as I'm talking, so why do you ship with two carriers and why are you shipping the two and not one?
We want to make sure we keep the drivers happy. That's the folks that are working in the shipping area. So we want to make sure that we keep them both happy. So they service us well. You're, what you're doing is you're hurting your volume. And you're, so you're not getting the breaks on your volume.
So those are things that, you know, you, [00:30:00] sometimes it's not necessarily a negotiation. It could just be a process change. It can be, we look at it and say, you're doing, 50/50 here, why don't you do more like 80/20 and then now you're going to reach thresholds where we can get discounts for you.
Sean Frost: Do you get into processes generally at all? That might be. Attractive to you coming from the background that it's hard
Rod Holter: for me to not do that because you sometimes I see that and I can't help myself, right? But I try to I'm coaching myself to stay, stay within the bounds of what my.
My franchise is and I partnered with other people now. Uh, I have a process a consultant that's really good at that. So if I see an opportunity like that, then I'll refer him in. And then likewise, if he sees opportunities, are they in one of his clients? He refers me into them as well.
And so we stay in our specialty areas. Even though I could go over and cause I'm a [00:31:00] greenbelt in, in lean as well, six sigma lean. And yeah, and I love that stuff. You know, Getting waste out is just a lot of fun and, and uh, knowing that you can, you just make somebody. Made somebody's job a lot better, higher quality job, not as strenuous and not as much walking back and forth and things like that.
But I try to stay away from that as much as I can.
Sean Frost: Yeah well, uh, Well, that's, that's exciting and interesting. And anything else that, that we we should be discussing with this audience,
Rod Holter: I think that the audience just be open to help it and please don't view that help as a threat, view it and sell it as I'm bringing a resource in to help us even get better.
And I think what's nice about our model, and it's not like a lot of consulting models is the Schooley Mitchell model is there's no money up front and you spend some time getting us some data. And then [00:32:00] with that, then we go out and do the negotiation and the deal, and then we bring that recommendation back to the client and the client still can say no, which is frustrating or disappointing sometimes for us.
We do a lot of work and then they look at it and say. No, I don't think I want to do that. And so you just have to say, okay, why would you not want to save 150, 000 a year? And so, you know, there's always other things that roll into those decisions that. That that can cause somebody to make a decision that you've been at the surface looks really like a, maybe not such a smart thing to do, but they have good reasons underneath.
And maybe it's the something to do with credit card charging and processing. And we do merchant services and, and something, you know, if you're going to pass that on to your client, sometimes that can be viewed in a bad way. And they're looking at saying, I'm not so sure our clients would like that. And that might cost us business.[00:33:00]
So the, they're trying to they're weighing that out as we're looking more at. Here's the opportunity for costs that, but look at, don't be afraid to look at anything that didn't challenge at all it's and know that you don't know everything. When you have somebody that's a generalist they're doing 20,000 foot flybys and pilot terms and where you have a group that just focuses on one commodity and that's all they do all day long they're down at the landing.
They're they know exactly uh, uh, what it should be and let them use that knowledge to. To make you look good,
Sean Frost: if you will, right? Absolutely. Yeah. It's baffling to me that people are hesitant to save money.
Rod Holter: It's uh, you know, the, the, maybe he has a Midwestern. It's
Sean Frost: hard for me to understand.
Rod Holter: Yeah. When I get to the right the right level in the organization, the right people that then the sale [00:34:00] is is pretty easy. It's getting to that person and it's sometimes difficult to do, but it's, it makes sense if you're the business owner.
Also, often it just makes sense. Why would I keep doing this? If I can. I can put that money into one of the other things we already talked about. Absolutely.
Sean Frost: Yeah. That's great, Rod. And we appreciate you coming on and, and uh, sharing, sharing some tips on, on how we can save money and how Schooley Mitchell could help you do that.
So
if
Rod Holter: you, If you're interested, you hear this and you're interested in finding somebody to help the way Schooley Mitchell operates, we're not bound by geographic locations. So anywhere in North America, if you're listening to this and you'd like me to have a look and, and help you uh, you can go online and find me on LinkedIn and, and connect with me and we'll uh, we'll get after it really quickly.
It's a pretty, pretty fast process.
Sean Frost: That's great. Our audience is national. It seems like everywhere we [00:35:00] go, somebody mentions something about they saw on the podcast.
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of inspiring innovations. We appreciate you listening. We appreciate you subscribing. That should get you notified of every new episode when it comes out. And if you comment, we always love to look at that feedback and we may uh, even try
announcing our guests ahead of time so we can get some questions that might be of interest to you in the future here. Again, thanks for listening. We appreciate you and we hope you find some ways to save money or, or reach out to Rod and he'll do it for you. So thank you.