Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Hosts Spencer Horn and Christian Napier discuss a better way to build and strengthen teams in any organization.
00:13 - 00:22
Christian Napier: Hello everyone and welcome to Teamwork a Better Way. I'm Christian Napier joined by my co-host who's wearing a very bubbly shirt today. Spencer Horn, Spencer, how are you doing?
: Good Christian, how are you?
00:25 - 00:29
Christian Napier: I'm doing well. Can you believe that the year is halfway over? We're now in July.
: I can't, my goodness. I mean, it's happy Canada Day for our Canadian listeners. Happy Canada Day indeed.
00:36 - 00:38
Christian Napier: And you know, your parents, both Canadian, correct?
: Yes, my mother was Canadian. My father was German, then naturalized to Canada before. Yeah, That's right.
00:46 - 01:30
Christian Napier: All right. Well, III, we could just talk for hours, but I want to get right to our guests. Well, I'm super excited to have our guests join us today. We're super honored to have Selena Caro join us. So Selena and I first met on a podcast hosted by a mutual friend Melissa Arskug and She is a business executive. She's currently the vice president and a founding practice leader of Gartner so she works in Gartner's executive advisory services and Her team is they specialize in assisting fortune 500 Large company large public sector entities which I now belong
01:30 - 01:33
Christian Napier: to so and we're working with Gartner so
: I did not know that.
01:36 - 02:21
Christian Napier: Yes, yes. Helping them effectively establish enterprise governance and cloud strategy. She has a lot of expertise in a lot of different areas. And she's fantastic. I could read this bio, but we'd be here an hour because she has so much experience. She is amazing. Her functional expertise, where she's helping clients. Digital transformation, AI, which is a huge 1 now, e-commerce, cloud strategy, cybersecurity, where Melissa works, enterprise governance, M&A mergers and acquisitions, strategic partnerships, regulatory and compliance, holy cow, Selena, you do it all. Thank you for explaining it.
: It's not like she's brand new at this. She's been doing this for over 26 years and got her start with Anderson, which became Accenture. And so she's been working at a high level for years, yes?
02:33 - 02:33
Salena Accardo: Yes.
: All right.
02:36 - 02:56
Christian Napier: Well, I know we got a lot of questions because she has so many different areas of expertise and I know that she can add tremendous value to teams and And before we came on air, you and Selena had an opportunity to kind of brainstorm some questions. So I'm gonna let you lead it off Spencer, and kick off this conversation with our good friend Selena.
: Well, thank you so much Selena for being here. And 1 of the things that I was so excited about is we have quite an international audience that listens. And there's always interest in cross-cultural teams. How do we motivate, how do we engage, how do we work with international teams? And I'm so excited to have your experience and expertise in this and I'd like to start off by Asking you if you could just share some of the biggest challenges that you faced When leading international teams and how you're able to overcome those?
03:32 - 04:11
Salena Accardo: Yeah, no, absolutely. Thank you. First and foremost, thank you guys so much for having me. I'm honored to be here. Leading international teams, in all honesty, at its core is the same as leading a domestically-based team. With the exception is, you have to really kind of understand people and everyone's Cultural differences and their biases what motivates them what doesn't motivate them and really just making sure you're keeping the people at the forefront and that is you know the secret sauce in all honesty of leading an international team. I come from my father was an immigrant from
04:11 - 04:50
Salena Accardo: India came to the US in the 60s to go to school And so I was born here in the States, but you know for the most part. I was 1 of the only East Asians you know that were in my schools growing up and everything so and Learning how to interact with others was always a core facet of my upbringing, which I think is what has helped me being able to connect with others of various backgrounds and various cultural differences in my leadership journey.
: And so how did you go about building those relationships? How do you bridge those cultural gaps? I mean, I absolutely, 100% agree that relationships are that foundation of being able to do that. I mean, in my experience, it's just caring about people and being interested in them. But I'd love to hear your experience of how that works or some of the challenges that you experienced in doing that and how you're able to handle that?
05:19 - 05:56
Salena Accardo: Yeah, absolutely. So I think, and we talk about working with an international group of individuals on both sides, right? Them working with people who are based in the US and us in the US based with working with individuals in other countries and continents. It's a 2 prong approach. It's knowing the people individually and what motivates them and what they value, but it's also understanding the area that they are living in and where they're from and how work is done in those countries and what is considered valuable or not and being able to bring those 2 together
05:56 - 06:09
Salena Accardo: to make sure that you're working on the same objective and executing the most appropriately that fits both the organizational's needs and the individual's ability to deliver.
06:11 - 07:03
Christian Napier: And 1 of the questions I have for you Selena on this topic That I've seen in the work that I've done because I've done a bit of international work is How do we set aside assumptions on How work gets done? You know so I'll just to give a very a very small example so I did a lot of work in Europe and generally speaking the the way people write there The way people write there is more formal. It's more cordial. There you exchange pleasantries. You don't just like jump in and say, hey, I need this. Because
07:03 - 07:09
Christian Napier: it could be considered to be rude, you know? And I learned that lesson the hard way.
: And so- You Christian can never be rude. Well, no,
07:13 - 08:02
Christian Napier: I mean, because, you know, here we value brevity and getting to the point and we don't want to waste people's time Which doesn't necessarily always translate well, so so how do you? How do you go about? Learning about these different expectations that exist internationally? I mean, I guess today you could just go online and just ask chat GPT or something like, hey, how do I work with folks in Switzerland or something like that but in your experience how do you go about actually learning those yeah how those cultural nuances proactively instead of making mistakes like I
08:02 - 08:05
Christian Napier: did and learning from the school of hard knocks?
08:07 - 08:41
Salena Accardo: Yeah, so that's a great question, Christian. And, you know, I can go back to my early days before, you know, the internet was really big and before we had chat, GTP, GPT, and we were, you know, learning on the fly. And I think the age old adage of first seek to understand, then be understood really comes into play here. So if I think back to my earlier experiences working with international teams, It was 1 of my very first assignments with Anderson is I actually got to go to Madrid, which was amazing. But I was working with
08:45 - 09:22
Salena Accardo: an international team on a project for a fashion house. And the first thing I had to really do was observe my coworkers. And kind of to your point, like a lot of times in Europe, they're a lot more formal and, you know, they exchange pleasantries and, you know, it's about working together. So I had to make it a point because I am a very direct and you know, want to get to the point I'm very action oriented. And so I had to make it a point when interacting with others to really see how they came to
09:22 - 09:30
Salena Accardo: the table and how they were processing information and how they were sharing information before I could get us to a point where we were working together in concert.
: And so in terms of time, I mean, tell me about, I mean, how long did that happen? Because for teamwork to happen, I mean, you can take a lot of time and not get that team united and focused on the same goals or you can have dysfunction that can happen because it's never handled right. What percentage of project teams fail? Over 40% and only 12% of teams worldwide are high performing. So how did you create that sense of unity? I mean, I love that you were watching and connecting with them, but what about, how did you
: get them to understand you and your way of working?
10:18 - 10:50
Salena Accardo: Yeah, so really I'm really open and I like to share the end goal, right? So this is what I'm being tasked with, making sure we accomplish. I'd like to understand from you how you would go about doing this right so that right away you're all focused on the same thing and then you're asking for insight on how they'd actually get it done so you're not imposing your thoughts on somebody else or your way of doing things We each do things differently. We all process differently. So You know I'm not not to say that like right off
10:50 - 11:10
Salena Accardo: the gate, when I was, you know, 23 years old, I was knocking it off the park. I have my fair share of black eye and bruises and apology emails and letters. I had to send myself, for not understanding people's point of view and how they were gonna come to ensure that we are making the end goal.
: So I mean, I'm putting you on the spot here, Selena, I'd love to hear an example of where you had a cultural misunderstanding. You know, we talk a lot about Europe and maybe, you know, you come, you have some of that East Asia, you know, route. But what are some of the differences that you noticed and where did you get, where did you get hooked?
11:32 - 12:12
Salena Accardo: Oh, gosh, I have so many stories. Okay, so let me give you the first 1 from Europe and I'll give you another 1 from Asia. So 1 from Europe that kind of stands out in my mind is I was leading a global implementation of a payroll system for my organization. And, you know, every single country has different taxation rules and different payroll periods and different payroll rules. And I was working with 1 of my peers who was based in the Nordics and He was a key stakeholder on the project, you know, but I was leading the
12:12 - 12:48
Salena Accardo: project and I included him in our stakeholder meetings and things of that nature and got his insight on the different countries requirements that are necessary for payroll processing. But I had a couple of internal meetings with the development staff that I did not include him in. He took great offense to that and got really, really upset with me that he said, I'm a key stakeholder for this project and I can't believe you had these meetings and didn't include me. And of course, I immediately was on the defensive. And I was like, well, I mean, it was
12:48 - 13:24
Salena Accardo: development. We were talking about integration rules and things that were going to be necessary. You already gave the business requirements. I didn't think it was necessary for you to be here, So I didn't include you. And he said, well, it would have been more beneficial for me to be included because while I gave you the business rules hearing the technical nuances to integrating the systems, I could also help you get past any unknown barriers before they actually occur. And when he said that to me, it really hit home. Like, oh my gosh, he's so right. Just
13:24 - 14:00
Salena Accardo: because he gave me the business rules, he gave me basically the happy path business rules. And I didn't even fathom that there could be Differentials that come up when you're integrating the various systems that we would need to do workarounds But how do we do that and meet compliance because we would in my scenario? We would do that we come across these issues and we would have to then revert back to you know Reconfiguration which would then increase the project time and he was right if he'd been included in the discussions from the get-go in Every
14:00 - 14:50
Salena Accardo: place then he could give us scenarios alternate scenarios to take into account if in fact we came across those issues So that's 1 And then another 1 from a Asia based standpoint so I had an entire outsourcing group technology outsourcing group that we were working with for 1 of the companies I worked at. And they're very hierarchical in the outsourcing group. So I had a couple of very strong architects that were based in Pune India and they did not agree with something that the enterprise architect had come up with And instead of letting us know, you
14:50 - 15:22
Salena Accardo: know, when the technical spec was written, they let us know afterwards. And, you know, I took them aside and I discussed with them. I said, well, if you saw this as an issue, why didn't you bring it up and they said well, you know The the enterprise architect had written it. I you know, I don't think that I had the ability to say anything and You know, so then kind of talking with them a little bit more realizing it's the hierarchical and that's the way life is and and so they that's brought into work as well
15:22 - 15:54
Salena Accardo: it made me realize there's a different way of integrating an entirely internationally based team so I actually put in for the next iteration of the project decision capabilities for everybody right they actually not just review but actually had the ability to formally approve it or not approve it and then give their reasons why. And putting that into paper and putting it into basically a contractual type of thing, they felt much more comfortable and safe to be able to give that feedback.
: So, Selena, I just want to say 2 things, Christian, because I know you got lots to say about that. First of all, thank you, because real experiences are people are listening to this going, oh my gosh, that that same thing has happened to me and they can immediately relate to, you know, we're talking about all these differences. But we learn from we do learn from failure. But what I also love is you did 1 of the things that I was going to suggest as you were giving the first example, and that is, it's almost like make
: a team agreement before you get started. And so when you were talking about that example of the hierarchical structure and how that challenged you, you're like going forward, okay, let's make agreements about who's doing what, how do we disagree, how are we gonna run meetings? And you do that in advance, it's so much easier than going back when people's feelings are hurt and they're emotional. If you do it in advance, we talk about, what about this? And you're not going to get everything right in those agreements, right? Because you're going to miss things that you maybe
: not have thought of. But you can ask, how do you do this and how do we do that? And it's almost like you create a document of how we're going to operate for this project.
17:12 - 17:17
Salena Accardo: Exactly. And in project management, that's called a RACI. A RACI.
: We talk about RACIs, yes. Would you describe that? I think most people know, but there's probably a few people that don't know what RACI stands for. I know Christian's talked about it on the show before, but just give us a quick rundown if you're listening and you don't know what a RACI is.
17:35 - 18:10
Salena Accardo: So a RACI document is essentially a, it's also called a rapid document, but essentially it's who's responsible, who's accountable, who's consulted, and who's interested, right? Because not all stakeholders have the same level of influence. I think we've all been on the project where everybody who's in the room thinks they have a decision making done, right? Everyone thinks that they are a decision maker and that's, and you can't have 20 masters in a room to make something done. So You know who's accountable on getting it done? Who's responsible for signing off and ensuring that this is done
18:10 - 18:23
Salena Accardo: to the specifications? Who can be consulted for insight and and who's just interested Like this could be something that they could leverage for their larger group. It could be something that tangentially touches on where they're working. So-
: So did you ever fight it's a negotiation or a fight to see who's at what level?
18:28 - 19:00
Salena Accardo: Oh, absolutely. And just because you come up with the race, he doesn't mean everyone sticks to it. So yeah, I mean, I have a ton of examples on that too, but it is a really great starting point. And the other thing I would honestly say is, and this goes back to my first example of when I didn't include the key stakeholder in the technology and the technology development was, you know, really to a strong stakeholder analysis, really understand who are these individuals that would fall into these different categories of responsible, accountable, consulted. Anyone who has an
19:00 - 19:38
Salena Accardo: interest, just write them out. And then you can assign the right level role to them. But that also helps just across the board, get everybody on the same page. It helps you understand where people may be uncomfortable. So going back to the international side of things, right? And working with people who have different, you know, protocols and working and bringing that all forward onto the table. Most failure occurs because there's a misunderstanding of expectations. Point blank. It's not because the product was junk or because people didn't work hard. It was just a misalignment of expectations. So
19:39 - 19:43
Salena Accardo: do whatever you can in order to ensure that that doesn't happen. It will happen.
: By the way, that's the number 1 problem in personal relationships as well. That is a big, big trip wire.
19:50 - 19:57
Salena Accardo: Exactly. Exactly. I mean I'll share a little personal incident. I've been married for 24 years now.
: Congratulations.
19:59 - 20:25
Salena Accardo: Thank you. Happily married for 24 years. But you know, in that course, my husband and I were actually talking about this the other day, right? That obviously you've grown a lot as people and things have changed. But that was whenever we've had pretty big issues, it's generally been because we had a misalignment of expectations. So getting on the same page is always what's solved and coming to a negotiation and negotiated agreement.
20:27 - 21:11
Christian Napier: ["Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy"] All right, Celina, I got a lot of questions, but what I want to ask right now is, so you come from a consulting background. This adds a layer of complexity, right? Because not only may your consulting team may be international, but your clients may be international as well. So you've kind of you've double layered the complexity. Now put on top of that how we're working today With a lot of people working remotely with crazy time zone differences and everything so I'd like to ask as you see the evolving landscape and
21:11 - 21:50
Christian Napier: particularly I think for for people who are working in these consulting Organizations, you know, how do you navigate? These layers of complexity when it comes to working with international teams? Because you're working with them on your own team, you're working with your clients who may have international teams, and you're all over the place, and you're trying to do stuff online, and inevitably somebody's gotta wake up at 01:00 or 02:00 in the morning and take a call. You have experience with that, Christian. Just a little bit. How do you recommend people navigate all of these additional layers
21:50 - 21:52
Christian Napier: of complexity when it comes to working internationally.
21:53 - 22:25
Salena Accardo: Yeah, so you kind of hit it on the head when you said that we are basically globalized environment now, which is great. There's a huge benefit to that because what that means is you're not doing this alone And you're not doing it for the first time I've seen in my years as a management consultant that you know where I may have only had 3 or 4 people to interact with in an international basis. Now I have whole teams that I can interact with. So this is left works. These are people that I can contact to help
22:25 - 23:02
Salena Accardo: understand before the initiation of anything. Tell me what's going on. Is there anything I need to be aware of? I'll give you an example. A couple of years ago, Gartner asked me to help build out a business that they had in Lantam, so in Latin America. And it was a very, very different culture. So much so, you know, I spent quite a bit of time with the sales leadership as well as with the delivery teams that were out there to understand what it is that the clients expect. And then we worked together to articulate how our
23:02 - 23:31
Salena Accardo: product supports that and put together our basically our roles of engagement for our product for that area. And it was very different in all honesty than how we go to market in the US because it's again a different environment. So I think leveraging people who are in the areas that know what's going on and really soaking up their knowledge and not trying to be the army of 1 is the keys to success when you're working with international groups.
: Don't you feel, Celina, that when you do that, when you reach out to them and say, hey, you are important to the success of this project and I need you, that that's part of creating that United team. Absolutely. To make them feel valued. Everyone wants to. I don't know. I don't know. I'm this foreigner, right?
23:51 - 24:15
Salena Accardo: Right, but everybody wants to be valued. That's an inherent human trait. And so I think, you know, not focusing so much on the differences, but focusing more on the likeness and what is inherent to all of us is what is makes things successful no matter where people are located or what personal biases or thoughts they bring to the table.
24:17 - 25:01
Christian Napier: I totally agree with that. Ultimately, business is still run by people and the most important thing for people are relationships and relationships. They are strengthened when we focused on our commonalities instead of our similarities instead of our differences. 1 of the questions I have for you, Selena, in this rapidly evolving landscape, you with your experience and also working with so many different clients, you've got a pulse on where things are going. And so I'm curious to hear from you where you think this all goes in the future, as we continue to see new technologies, new ways
25:01 - 25:26
Christian Napier: of working together, We're seeing very volatile landscapes in certain industries, you know, so You know you as a person who has a finger on the pulse of business globally where do you see things going in the future, particularly when it comes to working with folks internationally?
25:27 - 26:06
Salena Accardo: You know, honestly, I think we're going to become 1 really great melting pot, 1 worldwide melting pot. And learning about each other's similarities and differences is just going to be the way that we interact with each other It's not gonna be something weird or something. You have to really think through. It's just the way we're gonna connect. And because you have to, nothing is sectionalized anymore, if you really think about it. Everything is being designed and being worked through from multiple individuals and multiple areas of the world.
: I think that's good and bad. I just went to Ikea the other day and I noticed that their menu has been a lot more Americanized, more homogenized and I'm disappointed.
26:31 - 26:35
Salena Accardo: I know, I'm so glad to hear that because I used to love to go to Ikea just to go eat in their little restaurant.
: Right, I mean, but it's like, so we're doing, I know this is a little side, but we're doing this, my wife and I love to travel, we love international food, and there's this Instagram page that has all these foreign foods and they always do like these top lists of foods and there's 1 for example top 50 casseroles from around the world and so every Sunday we're making 1 of those and yesterday was a finished dish and you know most casseroles have potatoes, but this had, what we thought said anchovies, but we misunderstood. It's kind of a
: spelt. And the only place to get that as a European store, it's a fish, it's a pickled fish. And so we went to IKEA and we got some pickled herring, but it wasn't exactly the same thing. But they just, they don't carry it all anymore because people, you know, us Americans aren't buying it. And I was like, oh man, it's kind of sad. Sorry, that was a little side, but I love some of the differences that I think, you know, unity is so important. We hear so much about diversity and we need to value some of
: those differences as well. And I think that on teams, we need to value the different perspectives that teams bring because if we're all too homogenized, we start making mistakes.
27:53 - 28:14
Salena Accardo: Yes, very much so. You get a lot of, it's not fair, things aren't correct. And you get a lot of disengagement in all honesty, right? And disengagement, in my opinion, is the Achilles heel. Like that is what will make, engagement is what's gonna make or break anything you do.
: And what do you think causes that disengagement?
28:17 - 28:21
Salena Accardo: I think not being heard or not being seen, again, it goes back- Not
: having spelt at IKEA?
28:24 - 28:31
Salena Accardo: That I think is more the fact that the customer base in the area is not purchasing that product and it does have a shelf life.
: Of course, of course.
28:32 - 28:45
Salena Accardo: Or if you went to other areas in IKEA, other IKEA that have larger communities of individuals who purchase that, then you would actually see it.
: Right. So I interrupted your thought. I mean, I'd love to hear what you feel like. I mean, not feeling important is big, but engagement is such a huge issue that every team is looking for. And I think the things that you've been talking about are very, very important for engagement, feeling you're important, feeling that you're involved, knowing what your roles and responsibilities are, knowing how you are impacting the project. Those are all things that we've talked about so far. Is there anything else that you've done being interested in them and knowing them?
29:20 - 29:56
Salena Accardo: Well, and it's also goes to what is a value to each individual person. So 1 of the benefits I've had in my career is I've had the opportunity to lead multiple levels of individuals. So I've helped the early career individual who just is trying to build a career and wants to go up the corporate ladder to the person who's already had a very spectacular career. And now they're looking just to do something that's meaningful and engaging before they go into retirement and 1 thing is similar across the board for no matter if you're a brand new
29:56 - 30:06
Salena Accardo: individual in your career or if you're on the mature end of the journey is that you just have to feel like what you're doing meets your internal goals.
30:08 - 30:51
Christian Napier: Okay, I'm coming back to the food. So the reason I'm coming back to the food, Spencer, to your point, I mean, sometimes, you know, we see this in the world sometimes the the you know Western culture kind of going in and dominating, but I will say here in the States in the last probably 10 years We've had an explosion of regional cuisines available here You know my son lived in Africa for a while in Uganda and Ethiopia and when he came back He's like I really want Ethiopian food well they opened up an Ethiopian food restaurant
30:51 - 31:08
Christian Napier: here in Salt Lake City. There are a couple of them now. You know, we can get cuisines from, from a lot of different places on the planet that we didn't have access to 10 or 20 years ago. And you're like, well, what does this have to do with the topic? Well, what it
: has to
31:08 - 31:38
Christian Napier: do with the topic is that we have something in common. When you start having a conversation, you mentioned from someone from Pune, Well, I happened to be in Pune and you know people brought their local dishes and it was amazing or you know, you start having a you can have a conversation about food and it can help break down barriers and it sounds really silly and simplistic but sometimes, you know, just those little things can make a big difference and I'm curious to get your take on that Selena
31:39 - 32:16
Salena Accardo: no absolutely so I went to college in Louisiana, so I went to LSU from my undergrad to my aster's And loved it, But Baton Rouge is a small town, right? It's a small city and it had no variability. So, you know, they probably had 3 Italian restaurants when I was growing up there or went to school out there. You know, mostly everything was Cajun restaurants, the native food of that area. But you know, you couldn't, there was no Indian restaurants. There might've been 1 Thai restaurant. And then when I got my job with Anderson, I moved
32:16 - 32:53
Salena Accardo: out to Dallas, which is a huge multi-cultural city. And I got the opportunity to try lots of different cuisines. I remember my boyfriend, not my husband, had come out to visit me and we went to this Ethiopian restaurant. And we both, we couldn't see it was really dark because they, the restaurant was eating in the dark and we both ate freshly cut jalapeno peppers. Suffice it to say, we probably drank 2 gallons of water a piece to calm down. But my point being is then fast forward to, you know, a year later, and I'm on a
32:53 - 33:30
Salena Accardo: project, and I'm working with someone who was the child of an expat, and actually had spent time in Africa, and had gone to international school in Africa for several years. So we ended up having a great conversation about the food and then I got a better understanding of why I ate a while I was given a plate of freshly cut Hot jalapenos with my food and how I was supposed to eat it versus how I did eat it. So I think you're right on right on target, right? It's we've become a very multicultural environment across all
33:30 - 33:47
Salena Accardo: areas. And while more areas are progressive than others. I was in Louisiana a couple of weeks ago and I'm happy to say there was lots of international restaurants there now for the size of the area. So it's permeating across the entire world.
: I think that you're both right and I'd like to add not just appreciating the differences in foods, but actually sitting down and having a meal together is 1 of the best ways to find commonality and appreciating people's food. I know that when I go around the world, people watch me because they give me their local dishes and they're like, and sometimes they're hard. I mean, I've been in Lebanon twice and we went, My host took us, my wife and I and a friend, to this amazing restaurant, which was run by 1 of their friends. And we
: had all the wonderful regular Lebanese food, but then they brought out some of the real stuff to see what we would do. I mean, I'm talking about sheep's intestine stuff with sheep sausage, goat hoofs. And I ate it all and they were like, you're now Lebanese. And so just the fact that you appreciate their food, and most of it was amazing, The goat hoof, do it if you're invited to do it, but I didn't like the little hairs that were still on it. But just the fact that you are, yes, appreciative of their culture and their
: food, just, I mean, it's just such a wonderful experience and having those meals together and those shared experiences are a great foundation to building trust and relationship.
35:14 - 35:48
Salena Accardo: You know, it's Funny that you say that because yesterday, just yesterday, my husband and I got invited to a lunch. I have a cousin that still lives in India and her son lives here in the US. So she was here visiting her son. So they invited us to meet him out for lunch. And We went to a private dining area and they had Indian food that they were serving. My husband, who's not Indian, loves Indian food. And he ate not only his entire plate, but then half of my plate too. And my cousin was, you know,
35:48 - 36:06
Salena Accardo: she was like, Oh my gosh, you like Indian food? He's like, I love Indian food. He was like, I'm always so excited when Selena says, Hey, it's time to go visit, you know, an uncle or a relative and you know, we pick up Indian food regularly. And they were so enamored with the fact that he appreciated the food.
: And you build instant rapport, don't you? Instant rapport.
36:11 - 36:21
Salena Accardo: He's always been like that. And so like my whole family from, you know, 25 years ago, when I first introduced him, like he always ate their food, so they always loved him. They're like, oh, we love him, he eats
36:21 - 36:21
Christian Napier: our food.
: See? Christian and I could talk about food for the rest of the day, but you said something earlier, if I can change the subject, you said something earlier about your experience in supporting leaders at all levels? I mean, people just entering their career, people that were more senior and experienced. What, how are you able to build credibility and trust with people that are already at experience level?
36:48 - 37:23
Salena Accardo: Yeah, that's a great question, because I'll be honest with you, with a lot of people that I lead now, they have better careers than I've had. And so, you know, that can be kind of intimidating, right? I think my approach that's been successful is I really value them and what they bring to the table. And I really do want to understand their thought. It's never a top down approach on anything. I mean, obviously, of course, I have to share with them what's expected of each of us from a corporate level in terms of our measurement metrics
37:23 - 38:04
Salena Accardo: and things of that nature. But really valuing and hearing them on the experiences they've had in the past and they've brought to the table and how they've dealt with different experiences and having real discussions has been Invaluable and building a really strong team culture. So my entire team, you know, we have just a wonderful rapport We're all friends with each other You know, We really do collectively work together for the betterment of all of our clients. And then from a career aspect, when we're doing career planning, it's really understanding, okay, so tell me about, what are
38:04 - 38:33
Salena Accardo: some things you didn't get to do that you wanted to do? Because everyone has those stories too, right? I've got, I've had a great career, but I always wanted to do this, right? So is there an opportunity to expose them to those types of situations? What in technology, because we're technologists, right? And what in technology is really, are you finding really interesting? Are you reading about at night? Because we're all nerds, we all read about technology at night. But what is it about technology that you are reading about, that you wanna experiment more with, what can
38:33 - 38:51
Salena Accardo: we do there? Because half my team likely, they said this is their last job, they're not going to another job after this, they're gonna go into retirement. So what is it that I can do to get them engaged and excited about what they're doing today and not just be a countdown clock.
: So I just have 1 follow-up question because I think that's a great answer. Part of the reason for the question is I see lots of project managers that are not valued, unfortunately, by the C-suite. And there are people that are up and coming in their careers as project managers and they want a seat at the table, so to speak. How do you get that? How can they do that? How can they make themselves more relevant to the C-suite in a way that self-advocating for the value that they bring to an organization and building that credibility and
: trust with the leader. So that's part of the basis of my question. It sounds like you've done it well, but what advice would you have for someone else that may not have that yet?
39:41 - 40:16
Salena Accardo: Yeah. So project management in and of itself is beginning and an end. It's a transaction. It's an enablement function and mobilizations. And the biggest thing that I have seen and I did myself early in my project management career was I focused just on the project. This is the project as it was designed. This is what we delivered it. This is the, you know, so just kind of that triple constraint area and just did that. But I didn't actually understand and apply it to the business and what's it doing for the longevity of the business. So my
40:16 - 40:44
Salena Accardo: advice to, you know, project managers who really want to move up and be recognized for the strategic leader that they really are is to make it a point to understand how the project they're working on impacts the business and can expand the business's footprint or help them move into other verticals, whatever it's doing, but really understanding it from that perspective. So really get to know the business strategy of the organization you're doing the project
: for. Great answer. Great answer Spencer
40:55 - 41:35
Christian Napier: you know on that project management theme. I think that dovetails nicely with the working with people on your team who may have a lot more experience than you because it can be a challenge at times when you're when you have to manage a project and you've got people who've been on They've been around a long time They may have more experience than you do And you as a project manager may feel like you're lacking in authority you can't actually make decisions so you're relying on them And so I think this topic is quite interesting. And so
41:35 - 42:22
Christian Napier: Selena, you gave some very good advices which was recognize people for the value that they can bring. But still, you know, I think people in that project manager role can be they They they feel fear right like oh, I know I Have a lot of trepidation Because I don't necessarily have a lot of authority and I am working with people who have a lot more experience than I do in certain domains and so how would you recommend to Someone in that position maybe a project manager. How do you? How do you overcome? That fear Maybe a
42:22 - 42:27
Christian Napier: bit of imposter syndrome to actually be effective and get things done?
: Good
42:29 - 43:06
Salena Accardo: question. Yeah, so it's a couple of things. 1 is you need to do some self-reflection, right? Why do you feel intimidated because in this instance you are peers? You are not that as the project manager Some project managers can be heavy-handed So they let that fear and that imposter syndrome manifest in an inappropriate way. They're heavy handed. They're hard to work with and people just hate working with them. Well, you're never going to get to the end result if you're hard to work with. That's just the net of it. And I think my advice to younger
43:06 - 43:41
Salena Accardo: project managers is when they're working with more senior individuals, is again, looking at them as if they are, because they are, if they're mentors in their specific areas. So really understanding what they're saying, what they're bringing to the table, working with them to put that into a time box deliverable because that's the PM's job. But making sure you're doing it with them is really the key. You learn a whole lot along the way. You can't help but get smarter when you take that approach.
: We have 1 area that we want to talk about before we run out of time. And we're getting close to that. But 1 of the things that we promised our listeners, Selena, is that you would give some experience about how you've harnessed emotional intelligence to foster authenticity and, and, and understanding in the workplace, how has that served you? And, and how can, how can our listeners benefit from it or develop that?
44:14 - 44:58
Salena Accardo: Yeah. So first and foremost, it's never a done journey. Like I'm always looking for ways to be a better person and to be a more collaborative individual. We all have our biases. We all have our preferences for things. So in working in large team environments, it's critical to really understand, again, the motivators of others and how to harness that appropriately. A Couple of things I would really recommend and it's things that I'm working on myself on a continuous basis Right is 1 is persuasive communication, you know really really kind of hone in on the type of
44:58 - 45:38
Salena Accardo: communication that is necessary in order to get things done and that's that really does go to empathy because you're not going to persuade anyone to do anything or work with you on anything if you're not being honest and and truthful in your interaction with them and understanding what their constraints are. So I think that's 1 of the key areas. Again, too, it's just always being a lifelong learner. Never lose that. Every person you meet has something to teach you. And so that in and of itself, it really what builds internal empathy is your interaction from each
45:38 - 45:47
Salena Accardo: person teaches you what's going, what is of importance to somebody. It could be just that person, but it's still important to them and it's just going to benefit you to know that.
: Can you give us an example of how emotional intelligence helped you navigate a difficult situation? Just I want people to understand the benefits of continuously learning as you suggest.
46:03 - 46:53
Salena Accardo: Yeah, so I had this individual who reported to me and she had a very great career. I had worked for Fortune 500 and reached a really nice level. The thing I noticed is while she was very confident in certain areas of her work, she was not, she didn't have a very broad experience base. She had a deep experience base but not a broad experience base. And being a management consultant, you have to pull on all areas. And her uncomfortableness with her lack of breath would manifest and show itself as, as nothing was fair. You know, it
46:53 - 47:27
Salena Accardo: was always a conversation about, this isn't fair. Why am I being held to this account? This act and the other. And it's 1, I kind of put myself in her shoes and really understood her background Like let's talk about the past experiences. You've had you know where did you really feel most comfortable? Give me an example of when you thought things were fair It was That's how I was able to actually hone in on, it's not that she thinks things are unfair. It's just that she's uncomfortable when she's placed in situations where she doesn't have previous
47:27 - 48:12
Salena Accardo: experience. So it helped me then help her by saying, it appears that it's these types of situations that may present uncomfortably to you, which then makes you feel like you're in an unfair and no win situation. So how about we work on improving your depth of knowledge in these areas that haven't been brought to you previously before. And then being able to put a time, measure around that, like let's do a couple of things and let's see how that goes. So finding her some peer mentors, exposing her to some self study, and then doing some one-on-one
48:12 - 48:12
Salena Accardo: coaching.
: That is an awesome example, awesome example, because I love the fact that you tied persuasive communication to empathy. And you were showing empathy for this individual instead of saying, you know, you're in a high performing environment. There could be a temptation to say, just get over yourself and suck it up. You know, we're, we get paid a lot of money to do this. What is your problem, girl? And you didn't do that. And I think that was, and there's pressure to do that in your environment. And I know the world that you live in, it is
: just get stuff done, right? And stuff is the nice way of saying it. It gets stuff done, but you are getting stuff done. And sometimes there's this paradox is that sometimes you have to go slow to go fast. And when you slow down and take time to understand what's really going on, that's when you can really pick up the speed. And, and I'd love to hear how what happened. What was the result of that approach with her?
49:12 - 49:24
Salena Accardo: Yeah. So it was, it was quite successful. She, she appreciated it, right? She wasn't taken aback. Like you're saying I'm terrible. Like to, to your point, you know, I've done that in the past. I'm not going to lie.
: Christian, you mean,
49:28 - 49:44
Salena Accardo: reported to me that, look, I get it, that it's hard, but that's what we're paid to do. And, you're making X amount of dollars and you know, you're a senior individual. What do you, then maybe this isn't the right role for you. Like that was my response.
: That's what initially would go through my mind. I know I'm not judging anybody who thinks that.
49:50 - 50:24
Salena Accardo: But this individual, you know, this example, I love this example because it was a really big growth opportunity for me as a leader of leaders. And also it really did show me that I could make a difference with very senior individuals in a very difficult situation. And, you know, it worked like a charm. She took it really well. Like she didn't take it on the defensive. She, You know, she was really appreciative. She was open. We did a lot of planning on, you know, here, OK, here are a couple of courses that I think you should
50:24 - 50:53
Salena Accardo: take. Were you dummy or, you know, into learning? Here's a couple of mentors that I want to mentor. I want to pair you with where you're going to have bi-weekly conversations with to understand that you know their body of knowledge Because that's the areas you're struggling in and then we're gonna have executive coaching sessions, right? I mean, I'm gonna coach you On how to you know get smarter faster and be more efficient. Because that was the other thing that things were so hard that it was taking her a long time to do things. And she felt
50:53 - 51:22
Salena Accardo: like she had no work-life balance, which is gonna lead to burnout, which is gonna lead to a whole slew of other things. And I really appreciated the things that she did well because she did do things well. And it was really important to say, look, you know, I hear what you're saying. You know, we've all been there. We're all better at something than we are on other things. And it's just the way we have to approach it is with that learner's mindset. And we'll get there, we're smart people. And that's why we're in the high paid
51:22 - 51:47
Salena Accardo: jobs and doing really well in our careers is because we are intelligent, we're problem solvers. So let's net this problem out and let's get going. And it worked great. I mean, and it was a continuous thing. It was not something you just say okay we're gonna do this for 3 months and we're all done. No it was you know a good couple of years that we continuously evolved but a couple of years of you know continuous strong performance and continued engagement. Strong performance and continue to engage with.
51:56 - 52:38
Christian Napier: Wow, I think this is an amazing example of, of humility as a leader to be willing to say, okay, let's see if we can actually figure out what's going on here instead of, as you said, Spencer, just get over yourself and get her done. And then coupled with that humility was your willingness to invest in someone. You know, you invested a lot of time in that individual. And I think that means a lot, not only to the individual, but I think for other people who may see on the team, hey, this, this person and this organization
52:39 - 52:48
Christian Napier: is willing to invest in me. And when you feel that, then you deliver engagement goes up.
52:51 - 53:17
Salena Accardo: Absolutely. And the way you think about it, in all honesty, right, is if you go the first route of suck it up, you're getting paid to do it, and if you don't do it, get out of here and I'm gonna find somebody else. Think about how much time you have to invest in them to bring them up and you don't even know if they're gonna succeed in any area versus you've got someone who's a performer, you've got someone who's doing well, they just need a little more support and a little more specialization and you can do
53:17 - 53:20
Salena Accardo: that, right? And it's a win-win.
53:21 - 53:25
Christian Napier: I think it's awesome. Well, Spencer, do you have any other questions?
: Yeah, I have lots, but we're out of time and I'm so happy with the answers that we got. So I won't be greedy.
53:34 - 54:15
Christian Napier: All right well we thank you Selena for investing an hour of your extremely busy schedule to come and have a conversation with us. You shared so many great lessons and I know that we just barely barely scratched the surface of your experience so if viewers or listeners That are watching or or listening to this podcast want to connect with you Learn more from you see how you could potentially help them or maybe the other way around, maybe they could help you. What's the best way for people to connect with you?
54:15 - 54:41
Salena Accardo: Yeah, no, absolutely. So first of all, thank you guys for having me. I really enjoyed this. The best way to connect with me is on LinkedIn, Selena Ocardo, and I am active on LinkedIn. I do check my messages. So if you send me an invitation request, Also send me a message and let me know that you saw me on a teamwork podcast and you want to connect and I'm happy to connect with you. And then, you know, wherever that conversation goes from there, I'm happy to engage. Well
54:42 - 54:54
Christian Napier: thank you so much, Selena. We really appreciate it. Spencer, You spent decades helping teams achieve higher performance. If folks want to connect with you, they contact you. What's the best way for them to do so? You know,
: it's LinkedIn, but you make me sound so old, Christian decades. But hopefully that means wisdom, right?
55:01 - 55:03
Christian Napier: Yeah, it could be 11 years.
: And Christian, I mean, isn't he awesome? Selena, he's just, I, you know, we, we've known each other how long over 20 years, right?
55:16 - 55:17
Christian Napier: Yeah.
: And, we've had this, this is our fifth season with the podcast and so I'm so fortunate to be able to work with Christian and I and I love when when people I know get to meet him so how can they find you Christian
55:30 - 55:46
Christian Napier: well we'll just make it 3 for 3 on LinkedIn, I guess, right? Yeah, just look for Christian Ape here on LinkedIn. Happy to connect with people. All right, well, thank you listeners, viewers, for joining us for this wonderful hour. Please like, subscribe to our podcast, and we will catch you