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In this episode, guest host Derrick Sier from Reverb Mentoring joins us for an honest conversation about the challenges and growth that can come from interracial mentoring. Together, we explore how differences in upbringing, culture, and lived experience can shape relationships, and how humility and listening open doors for deeper understanding. Through a Christ-centered lens, we discuss how mentors can create safe, compassionate spaces where every young person feels seen, valued, and supported.
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https://www.reverbmentoring.com/
https://www.restoreokc.org/
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If this podcast has encouraged or equipped you, would you take 30 seconds to leave a 5-star rating? On Apple Podcasts, scroll to the bottom of the You Can Mentor page and click “Write a Review.” On Spotify, go to our page, click the three dots next to the settings wheel, and hit “Rate Show.” It helps us reach more mentors like you.
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https://www.reverbmentoring.com/
https://www.restoreokc.org/
--
If this podcast has encouraged or equipped you, would you take 30 seconds to leave a 5-star rating? On Apple Podcasts, scroll to the bottom of the You Can Mentor page and click “Write a Review.” On Spotify, go to our page, click the three dots next to the settings wheel, and hit “Rate Show.” It helps us reach more mentors like you.
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Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
Welcome to the YouContour podcast. This is Zach, and I'm with my friend Derek. Derek, say hello.
Speaker 2:Hello. Hello. Don't we look fancy in our glasses, Zach? People have no idea how not serious we are.
Speaker 1:Oh, man. Derek and I, guys, just just to paint a picture, Derek and I are both wearing glasses, and we look so smart. Oh my gosh. So smart. Mean So smart.
Speaker 1:Look at me. I'm in a vest. I've got glass. There's books behind me. I mean, I am just the smartest mentor ever.
Speaker 2:The only thing we need now is, like, tape in the middle. We do we know why people wear the tape? What does the tape do?
Speaker 1:I don't know if the typical quote unquote nerd has actual tape on his glasses or if that's just a thing that people like us think that nerds have on
Speaker 2:their glasses. We should we should ask some real life nerds. Like, I know a few, I'm a ask them. And they're self proclaimed. It's not me, like, identifying them or making fun.
Speaker 2:They're like, I'm a nerd, theater nerds, book nerds. Like, I'm ask somebody.
Speaker 1:Or like a, you know, one of those, like, pocket protectors. I have never seen a nerd wear tape on their glasses for a pocket protector, except for in the movie Revenge of the Nerds, which we probably shouldn't talk about on this podcast.
Speaker 2:Never in real life have I seen Yeah. Tape in a pocket protector. I've never seen it Yeah. In real life. Ever.
Speaker 1:Man, what a great start to this podcast. Okay. Well, today, Derek, we are not talking about nerds. Are talking about something much different than that. Mentor should probably be.
Speaker 1:Let's go. We're talking about race. And I know. I'm just I was telling Derek earlier just I feel so weird talking about race. I feel awkward.
Speaker 1:I feel like I don't know what I'm gonna I 100% feel like I'm gonna say something to offend someone.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's just but, hey. If if I have to talk about it, I'm gonna talk about it with you because
Speaker 2:I love that, man. Yeah. Appreciate that. And it and here's the cool thing about it. Like, I think, when people hold those things inside and they don't talk about them, but yet they use them as like a parameter to operate and to engage people.
Speaker 2:It's like, I'm not talking about it, but I'm using it to engage people. I feel like that's almost worse than coming out and saying it and engaging people from a place of authenticity through that lens and in that perspective. Think a lot, we all have biases. We all have these preconceived notions, these lived experience, shared experience that we carry around and we engage people with and through. But I don't know that people feel safe or comfortable enough in shared and mixed spaces to talk about those things that they hold and the lens that they see through.
Speaker 2:And so I think if we're going to do that, if we're going to create space where people feel comfortable enough to do it, like, let's do it then. Like, let's talk about it. And so my hope is that that's what happens. I'm confident that we'll share that space together. We're safe.
Speaker 2:We're comfortable. Let's jump into it.
Speaker 1:This is a safe place. Everything's cool. We're cool. Everything's good.
Speaker 2:Everything's fine. Everything's fine. Now I don't know what happens when we release this episode. I don't know what's going happen then, but I'm here for it. Let's see.
Speaker 1:Let's see. It'll be great. Okay. So I've known Derek for a couple years now, and so that is just such a key factor in us being able to have this conversation because I do feel like I'm talking to a friend, which is a big deal. And so Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Kind of what what my goal in this is, kind of what my purpose is, is I I'm gonna try to ask Derek some of the questions that I believe most mentors who are white have but might not feel comfortable enough asking someone who is not white. Okay? And so just to kind of paint a picture of our audience, most of the people from my perspective that tune in to the to this podcast are typically white mentors, and their mentees are not white. Most of most of the kids who we serve are black. And so, so yeah.
Speaker 1:So we're just gonna have an open and honest conversation. And so the first question that that I have, Derek, is this. What are some of the unique challenges that kids who are Black might face that us white mentors might not understand?
Speaker 2:Yep. Yep. I think I've been around this long enough coming up on twenty five years being a mentor and working with kids, youth serving organizations where I hear all the time that it comes down to decision making. Like you choose better, you do better, you think better. And I think that is such a short sighted, that's such an incomplete assessment and observation of how people get into situations and how they get out of them.
Speaker 2:Right? It's like, I think of my bad habits that I have of maybe my poor eating or not exercising or bad sleeping habits or potty language, right? It's like for people to tell me, Derek, just exercise. I know that. Derek, just eat better.
Speaker 2:I know that. Derek, just go to bed on time. I know that. Right? It's like, Derek, just stop saying those bad words.
Speaker 2:I'm like, I know that. This, you're not telling me anything that I don't know, but the process in which I've gotten here, the habits that I've developed, the type of eating, the type of sleeping patterns, the, you know, like this lifestyle is something that has taken place over time. And so what I hear a lot of mentors, and this is not, not just, racially, but specifically I hear this from white men talking to black males is they, they reduce the idea of becoming better, of being different, of getting out of your situation, of just decision making. And I think to understand where people come from would add some more context and nuance to that statement. And so I think that's probably the biggest misunderstanding is that you chose to get there.
Speaker 2:And then even if you did not choose to be in this situation, you can choose to be out of it. That's so incomplete. And that's so short sighted.
Speaker 1:I was having a conversation, with a older, well heck, goes with my dad. And we were kind of talking about what I do and things like that. And he made a comment, something to the effect of, well, they they, like those kids, just need to work harder. If doctor Ben Carson can do it, then why can't they?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, okay. Like, objectively, I can see where you got there, but it's so much more complicated than that. Every person is different, every story is different, and everyone has different opportunities, different mentors, different doors being opened. And so to say, well, this this kid experienced the same thing as that kid and this kid made it out, so why can't they? Well, this kid who we're talking about is probably the one out of a thousand, the one out of ten thousand kid.
Speaker 1:Whereas most kids, if they experience the same things, they, aren't gonna have what it takes to overcome that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I think to add some more nuance to that statement of they working harder, I know a lot of people that had positions, power of influence, security, whether it's financial or social, and they didn't work hard at all to get there. Doors open, they were handed the opportunity. They didn't earn them. While they're there, they may steward them well, but to say that working hard is the linchpin to the door of success is also inaccurate and it's incomplete, it's shortsighted.
Speaker 2:To say that means that everyone that has gotten a position has worked hard to get there. I also know people who work really hard, who hold two or three jobs down. They don't sleep well. They don't eat well only to remain in poverty their entire lives, working hard. I'm talking about hard jobs.
Speaker 2:I'm talking about multiple jobs, long hours. And so working hard while it sounds good and it fits the all American dream is also an incomplete statement and shortsighted, and it doesn't have the nuance that should be given to people in different people groups.
Speaker 1:Man, so, like, I wanna talk a tad bit about, the perspective that some people see whenever they think of mentoring. Okay? So tell me just, like, what are some of the common perceptions you hear or you kinda are able to identify whenever you see kind of a upper upper to middle class white male entering into these kinds of mentoring relationships?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's the white savior complex. It's the guilt that moves people. It's the shame. It's the power dynamic. It's the, if they only knew or if they only had, you know, it's kind of this downward flow that people feel like they can come in and change a narrative, change a situation.
Speaker 2:And we do want that from anybody, from anybody that has done some work, that has been doing some work, that's accomplished and have done some things. Hopefully they had some people giving them information and they learned some things. The hope is that they are now also using that experience and that information to provide it to someone else so they can do those things. But there's a stere stereotypical person that we've all seen in mentorship that they come from across town, from their, their house, their two parent home. You know, I'm just being all stereotypical here and there, you know, whatever it is, whatever stable situation they come from and they trek across the city and they go find this poor black kid whose mom is whatever, whose dad is and their siblings are, and they live in this house and they go to this school and you find that Hallmark movie of him taking that kid out to breakfast and lunch and buying them shoes and, you know, exposing them to all these different things.
Speaker 2:And then they, something happens in the mind and heart and they end up becoming a B student and they play a sport and they go off to college and, you know, it's like this, this thing that happens. And I think what I believe happens in the minds of white people when they come over and they don't carry this dynamic of curiosity, but also having some things to contribute is that they believe they can come in and change the whole situation just by being in this space. And that is, that is, as far from true as I can even paint the picture. And you think that you're going to come in with all of your knowledge and experience and change your kid's life tomorrow, then you actually set that kid up for disappointment and failure. And so I think that's probably the biggest thing that I see oftentimes is let me leave the safety and security of my home and my marriage and my family and my faith and my finances.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to go across town to the worst parts, the worst schools, to the worst kids. And I'm going to get down on one knee and I'm going to grab that kid by the face and I'm going to say, you are special. And you know, they're going be like, I am. And they're going to change the kid's whole life. I think that's the dynamic.
Speaker 2:And whenever I see someone come into a mentoring program with that perspective, I don't give them a kid. I let them just watch. You don't get a kit. You show up, you watch, you serve, you empty trash, you play games, you serve pizza, you, you don't get to, you don't get to have a kit because I can see that from a mile away that you're coming in with the wrong intent. I need to soften you.
Speaker 2:I need to change you. I need to let you see what we do and how we do it. Because if I don't, you're going to mess up a kid and we don't want that.
Speaker 1:Okay. So there's a lot right there. Right. And I just kind of want to share my story. Okay.
Speaker 1:And so, man, that and this is what is so important for me to say before I kind of tell you my story, right? Like, my heart was good. My intentions were good. I thought that I was doing the right thing. I just didn't know any better.
Speaker 1:And so what I'm about to say is really the foundation to why I started this podcast is because whenever I first got my mentee, I mentored him for a couple years, then he came to stay with, me and my wife. And he's a good kid, man. Such a good kid, smart kid. He's a leader. I mean, just a total stud.
Speaker 1:He was everything that you just mentioned. Right? Mhmm. He came from a single parent home. He had he was he had older brothers, all incarcerated.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. He made bad grades. He was an athlete. He was a smart kid. And Derek, I would have never said it.
Speaker 1:But when I started to mentor him, I pretty much said to myself, okay, now that this kid has me, the only question is, is he gonna go to Stanford or is he gonna go to Harvard?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because just wait till I get ahold of him. I'm gonna turn his grades around, and I'm gonna make sure that he goes to all the football camps, and I'm gonna make sure that he learns how to work out, and I'm gonna make sure that he talks to all the coaches in a way that's kind. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And Derek, this is what's so crazy. For the first year, worked, man. It worked. He went from, from, you know, barely passing all of his classes to A on a roll. He went from, you know, being okay at sports and now he's starting safety, you know, playing varsity football.
Speaker 1:The first year, everything went great. The second year, things kind of started going a tad bit downhill. The third year, he got incarcerated. Yeah. And as I think back to that relationship, I see a couple things that, man, I just wish that I would have known.
Speaker 1:I I cared way more about his grades than I did his heart. I cared way more about if I'm being totally honest with you, I cared way more about how his performance was making me look
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Than I cared about his past. And just like what you said, you know, trying to trying to connect the dots and be kinda curious about, how have all these things impacted him? How how how could the fact that he is, you know, a single mom or that he's moved, you know, six, seven, eight times, how how might all of those things be, a factor in how he sees himself or how he right? And so, and so, man, I as I look back now and say, what would have I done differently? Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, there's a number of things, but I would have asked a whole lot more kind of questions. I would have been way more patient. I would have just loved him for who he was. I would have cared way more about his heart and his story than his performance. And I would have really given the relationship over to God and saying, Lord, you love this kid way more than I do.
Speaker 1:It's not my job to fix him. It's not my job to save him. It's my job to love him. And then, God, I I'm going to ask you, Lord, would you transform him in your perfect timing? So
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. That's so good, man. And, you know, I'll add to that. I think there's think when we think about mentorship and our investment of time and money and resources like connections, one of the reasons that adding, I believe this faith component to it is because if you leave it up to us, we can only get that kid as far as we can take them.
Speaker 2:Right? But like in partnership with Jesus, the heart of mentoring taps into a place. It gives us access to conversations and family and friends. And if we listen to the Holy Spirit, we can prompt conversations and connections in ways that just us alone being intuitive, we won't have access to. And I think that's the thing when we think about mentoring, especially through a faith lens, it's like, I need to understand my heart and my intent and my biases and my lived experience as I'm coming into this relationship, because I'm not trying to carbon copy myself.
Speaker 2:I want this human to become the best version, God's version of success for him. I want to know because, cause grades are going to, are going to fade. Sports are going to, are going to fade. Money's going to fade, but the heart of the person, the soul of that person, if we can connect with that, then the byproduct of that relationship and the change in the heart, it will just come, it will just manifest. Right.
Speaker 2:And not to say that we shouldn't talk about homework and responsibilities and duties and chores, but I think when we come into a connection with a student, with a kid, and we're talking about change, improvement, advancement, we're talking about sustainable impact, I think we have to look past the rest. Because I can tell you, I can tell you, have you seen The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind? No. It's about this kid over in Africa. And I just talked about this with my mentor in class.
Speaker 2:I said, over the year during that time, maybe even now, he was trying to sneak into schools. Kids are sneaking in schools, right? This kid was, he was using the lightning from a thunderstorm with the window open so that he could do his homework. He was using the light to do his homework so that he could pass his test in class. And so it was just, when think about him getting poor grades, him getting poor grades wasn't because he wasn't studying, it was because there's other factors at play at home that impacted his ability to retain information.
Speaker 2:And so oftentimes, and I'm wrapping it up, I took the long way to get next door. When we talk about these kids that have these issues, we wouldn't find them any help, right? When we talk about their grades, the grades, they are just the fruit of the root issue. And if we get to know a kid and who that kid is, and the family and the friends and the community and cultural and social dynamics, we're doing way more good than making sure they make it to football practice and making sure they are able to pass their tests and to make sure that they can eat. We can do those things.
Speaker 2:Yes, those are some needs that we can meet. But unless we address those rooted things, unless we're aware of those and how to navigate that space and how to handle that with grace and dignity and how to honor their lived experience while exposing them to a world they may not have ever seen and not been for God placing us in their lives instead of losing. I think that we do a disservice and an injustice to mentoring unless we do it that way.
Speaker 1:And I wanna change the perception of mentoring. Right? I mean, because by its very nature, it's very simple. You go hang out
Speaker 2:with a kid. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Sure. But it is so complex. And so I would say this, you know, let's say you guys go to church and your church is like, hey, we're gonna go to the we're gonna go to China, and we're gonna be missionaries. Mhmm. But before we go, we know that we can't just go over there and just do exactly what works here in our own church.
Speaker 1:Talk to time, and we have to learn their culture. We have to learn their customs, and we have to figure out what's important to them. And we have to learn their history. We have to learn only then, and that takes a long time. Only when we come in humble and as learners and then slowly go there and get to know people slowly but surely.
Speaker 1:I mean, this takes years. Right? Only then do we have a shot at doing what we hope to do.
Speaker 2:That's so good.
Speaker 1:It's it's the exact same thing with the kid next door. You might mentor a kid who comes from a different culture. Might mentor a kid who you don't understand their story or their values. You might live in a different world than them even though you live just a couple, you know, houses down. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But we as mentors, we have to come in humbly. We have to come in asking questions as a learner saying, I might have kids of my own, and I might know how to parent them, but I don't know the first thing about this kid, and I don't know the first thing about this kid's story. And I'm not gonna act out in fear, but I'm gonna be patient, and I'm going to trust that if I ask good questions, if I learn their story, if I get to know their mom, if I get to know their dad, if I get to know their uncles, if I get to know their school, if I get to know their then then and only then do I have a shot of doing what I ultimately want to do, and that's build a relationship with this kid. Yeah. The last thing that I want people to do is to hear this and be like, well, if I'm white and my mentee's black, I'm screwed and I'm and I might as well not even quit.
Speaker 1:Right? Or I might as well not even start. Yeah. But instead, what I want us to do is to to come in with wisdom and to come in humbly. The best mentors are the ones who are the most humble.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, you know, when I think about you, talking about coming in with this curiosity, There's a, like when I do mentor training, I say that there's three phases of like movement when you engage. One, you find shared space. Shared space can be a school, it can be a community center, it can be whatever it is, shared space, shared space. Once you have been within, in that space for a while, I think the next space that you should visit is their space.
Speaker 2:So you figure out what their space, whether it's sports, it's where they hang out, whether it's their home, whether it's their church. And the very last space should be your space. Oftentimes our mentors come in and they want to, you know, I can show you the world, you know, indescribable for they want to take this kid and, you know, take them to their home and their friends and the lake House and Disney World and Six Flags Over Texas. Oh my God, you've never ate at a steak house. They take them to a steak house and you know, they do all these really cool things.
Speaker 2:Buy them all this, like, that's the last phase. The first should be shared space. The second is like, to their space. Because what I find oftentimes is that, in an attempt to get to know a kid, you don't like, if I talk to a kid and I'm asking them questions and I'm seeing them in a space that is not theirs, I get to know more about that kid, meeting that kid's friends and families, seeing where they live, seeing, meeting their coaches, meeting their teammates, meeting their classmates, meeting their teachers, meeting other mentors or caring adults in their life. I get to know more in those first two phases than I ever get to know about a kid if I take them into my space.
Speaker 2:Why? Because when that kid is in my space, especially if it's not the same or a similar space, if it's something, that's completely different, they act and behave differently. They've never been here before. And so you're not getting an authentic version of who they are. But if I know a kid and I can get to know them by knowing their surroundings and their sort of like spaces where they feel comfortable, where if I make you angry, fine, I'll get out this car and I can walk home, right?
Speaker 2:If I get to be in a space and I get to see how mom and dad and aunts and uncles and grandma, the food that they eat and the communities they live in, and you know, get to see that, then I'll know which spaces to take them to. I'll be able to prepare them to engage in those spaces. I won't parade them or my little minty around like it's, you know, some prize or something to be, you know, whatever it is. I'm just saying like, I just think it's so important when you come from different backgrounds, different cultures, different sides of town, different upbringing. When you, when you come from a different space as a mentor's job, it is your job to come to the side of the mentee.
Speaker 2:You're supposed to be on there. You're supposed to get to know them. You're supposed to be asking questions about them. They'll eventually get to know about you, but this isn't the Derek show. It's not the Zach show.
Speaker 2:It's the kids show. Mentoring is all about them. It's all about what do you like? What are you interested in? Who do you want to become?
Speaker 2:What areas in your life suck? How can we improve? Like it's about them. And when we spend the big chunk of that upfront time getting to know them, being humble and curious and coming into their spaces and eating their food and subjecting ourselves to their music and their TV shows and their side of the city, when we do that, we earn the right to introduce them to something else that we also find value. We earn the right.
Speaker 2:We earn the trust and the respect. We earn that by going into their space, making them feel comfortable, meeting their folks, meeting their people, seeing how they grow. We earn the right by doing that. We don't do it the other way around. Can mess it up when we do that.
Speaker 1:Man, Derek, like, as I, as I hear you talking, it's the first thing that comes to my my mind is, like, that that is what Jesus did with us. Like Mhmm. Jesus came into our world. Like Yeah. Jesus went to the house of Zacchaeus to eat dinner.
Speaker 1:Like, Jesus went to the tax collector Matthew, and he invited like, he he went into their spaces. Yeah. And, man, I am
Speaker 2:I
Speaker 1:mean, why don't we do this? There's a number there's a number of different kinds of reasons. One, it's fear. You know? Well Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I'm I'm terrified if I go into that part of town or I'm terrified you know, I'm so scared. It you know, Maybe it's dangerous. Maybe it's this. Maybe it's that. Right?
Speaker 1:Other one is just it's just uncomfortable. Is so uncomfortable to go into a new place with people that you don't know and be different. Okay. Well, if that's true, which it is true, imagine how your mentee who's eight years old, who's 10 years old feels going into the exact same spot with you and your people. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so, man, it is our job as mentors to serve first. Is our job as mentors to go to them. It is our job as mentors to be uncomfortable so the mentee can be comfortable. Is our job to honor them and to honor their families and honor their cultures. And, you know, it's not our job to cast judgment.
Speaker 1:It's not our job to say, oh, I I won't. I I won't go eat at that place or I won't go to to to that part of town. No. Yeah. Like, we we enter into their world, and then we love them just as they are.
Speaker 1:And that man is just going to help us be the best of mentors possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that space is not only just like physical space. Like, that kid has like mental and emotional space. That kid has, you know, I think if I had to walk a mentor through spaces, it would be, you know, academic space, it would be social space, and that social space includes friends and sports. If I had to say which next space, I would talk about music and movies and the arts and entertainment.
Speaker 2:You know, like when we say go into their space, eventually you'll end up in their neighborhoods and in their homes and, you know, with their families. But initially there's spaces that we can get into that's uniquely them. And that feels uncomfortable as well. I can't tell you how many times like I'm asking my kid, you know, what he listens to and I'm listening to this music and to me, I'm like, this music sucks. It is horrible.
Speaker 2:I hate the message. It reinforces, you know, negative lifestyle and imagery. Like it sucks. But when I am able to listen to it and this thing, when I'm able to listen to it and not flinch, when I'm able to listen to it and reserve judgment, not preserve it because I don't, I want my view of it to change over time, even if it's just a little bit, When I listen to it and I'm able to meet them in that space, the credibility that I get goes so far because they've been so used to people that look differently than them casting judgment or looking on what they do and how they do it very differently when I'm able to, like this is one of my first assignments that I get working in inner city schools, which are predominantly black and brown. You have people that come in and they start asking questions like, what's their favorite food?
Speaker 2:Like, what's their favorite music? What movies do they like? What entertainment? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know. And I'm like, how long have you been hanging out with this kid? Three months? Those are the first questions that I'm asking. And so they come back and they're like, oh man, they like spicy Cheetos or they like Takis.
Speaker 2:I'm not buying them that crap. I'm like, what are you bringing them? They're like fruit. I'm like, are they eating it? No.
Speaker 2:Okay. So let's, let's wait till bringing fruit, right? Let's start out with Takis, They're already eating it. Let's start out with some candy. Let's start out with, and I'm saying like, there's these spaces that we can, when we're invited into those spaces, whether they're social, emotional, whether they're physical, we have to be able to steward that well because that invitation has another invitation on the back end of it.
Speaker 2:That initial, they're trying to see how you're going to respond because there's all this life that I believe they want a caring adult to be a part of, but they're not going to give you access to mom, dad, brother, sister, you know, my house or my home, if you can't handle music and talkies well. Right? Another thing is we can't go in as mentors kicking doors down demanding access. The access that we preserve and that we are able to honor the most are the spaces we're invited into. So when a kid, there's a lady that I work with and she has a son and he comes around the house and he wants to give people like gum and candy.
Speaker 2:And she was like, I don't care how dirty those hands are. I'm learning to open my mouth and take whatever that kid, because that kid, this can't be special to this four year old, this five year old. And when he's sharing it, that means he's letting me into some space. When we do this as mentors, when we're going into spaces that are not ours, whether they're physical, emotional, social, when we're invited into this space, our job is to steward it well. And so being uncomfortable is a huge part.
Speaker 2:Being in their space is another. Being invited and not kicking down doors, not demanding that, you know, we do it my way or the highway. I think those are ways that we are able to have put roots into a mentoring relationship.
Speaker 1:I I think Doctor. Karen Purvis, she founded GBRI out of Texas Christian University, and she has this philosophy of just saying yes. So it's like, how how can I say yes to this kid as as as much as I possibly can? If a kid's like, can I have a piece of candy? Yes.
Speaker 1:Can I, you know, do a cartwheel? Yes. Can I go take a lap with you? Yes. Can I have a a hug?
Speaker 1:Yes. Right? And and it's you are to a kid who most of the time people say no to. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 1:You are developing this, oh, that is my mentee. That's someone who says yes to me. And then after a month, after two months, hey. Can I tell you something that's difficult for me? Or, hey.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Can I tell you about this hard time I had on Tuesday? Right? So it is it is this, like, how can we accept them just as they are, And how can we love them? And how can we share what they think is important?
Speaker 1:How can we also see that as, hey. Yes. Not only is that important, not only is what you're giving me important, not only is what you say important, but you're important.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And add to that as well. And I love this conversation, by the way. I think, being able to, this is the work that mentors have to do before they enter into these spaces. Being able to identify what you will do and what you won't do, what you'll say yes to, what you'll say no to.
Speaker 2:A lot of that, I think I'm making the assumption that mentors are doing their work on a mentee. Like they're doing some background checks, some information, they're asking questions beforehand, which I think we all should do. In fact, I love giving mentors two things. One, a mentee profile and saying this, this is the age of the kid. This is where they go to school.
Speaker 2:This is what they're interested in. Are you interested in this kid? And they'll say yes or they'll say no. The second thing that I do is I have a mentor assessment and I'm like, okay, do you want to come in, once a year for mentoring activities or do you want somebody that you can meet with weekly? What age?
Speaker 2:How active are you willing to meet with this kid in school, outside of school, meeting the families, like all these different things, because I want to set you up for success. And I find that the mentors have the most, the greatest amount of success when they're able to tap into that pre work before they commit. Because what I don't want you to do is to commit to a kid and you can't honor that commitment because they've had that before. Yeah. I don't want you to be so excited about doing the work that you, that excitement fizzles and it fades.
Speaker 2:And so I think a lot of that work when I'm, when I'm, when I go in with the mentality of I'm going say yes to these things, or I'm willing to do these things, I think it allows us to have a more honest, interaction and connection in the moment versus us trying to decide something long term or existential with the concept or question that we have not yet considered. And so that's a lot of the mental training that goes on the front end before they even get an opportunity to sit with the kid one on one unsupervised.
Speaker 1:Man, I just love all of that stuff, like creating a mentor kind of profile, you know? Like getting down to, hey, how often do you want to see your mentee? How often do you right? And so on. And so that is that is so so helpful, Derek.
Speaker 1:Okay. Hey. As we kind of start to kind of finish up, what is like pretend like I'm coming in and I'm saying, hey, Derek, I want a mentor. And Yeah. You see me, you see that maybe I don't have any experience.
Speaker 1:Maybe I'm white. Maybe I go to, you know, have a big house, quote unquote, kind of a perfect family.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What are some of the things that you would tell me?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I would want to have a conversation and learn more about who you are as a person, kind of your upbringing, your childhood, your family structure. I want to know what you think about some religious things, faith and some spiritual things. I wanna know some political things that you stand for and some social things. I wanna know how you feel about gender and race and culture.
Speaker 2:And I want to know what you feel about education because I know that my organization stands for one thing and every mentor that comes through the door may not align with my mentoring organization, but you'll align with someone's. And so I've been in this game long enough to not be foolish enough to take any caring adult that wants to be a mentor. Like, I think I've seen so many traumatic experiences come from that of somebody that comes in and was like, Hey, I want to hang out with kids. And people are like, great. Because then, you know, warm body and a pulse, that's somebody who's going show up, you know, consistently.
Speaker 2:I've seen that go horribly. So if somebody comes through the door and they are, they want a mentor and, know, if it had the marks that we just said, from other side of team, maybe, you know, they're rich and I deal with, you whoever it comes from this home structure. I'm gonna do a lot of work. I can do it with any mentor, but I think with certain mentors that come through that I've seen kind of this time with, I'm just going to sit with you for an hour, you know, and I want to meet with you again next week. And I want to invite you and see how you engage in a group setting.
Speaker 2:And I want you to meet other mentors. And I'm going to say that I'm almost, I almost want to run you away, right? I want to see how much you want to mentor. And those are the questions that I'm with. So if you're the person, especially for me and any organization, for me, want you to be able to answer those questions and be honest with yourself and say the answer that I want to hear.
Speaker 2:And I think those are some of the things. What do you believe mentorship is? What's your background with mentorship? What's your experience with children? Where do you come from?
Speaker 2:What's your family structure? What do you believe about faith in God? And, you know, like I wanna hear all those things and I'm gonna be like, okay, cool. And not that we have to disagree on all those things, but if you stand in a different space, I'm gonna be like, okay, I think that that's good. We need different people to kind of stretch and challenge our kids, But would you be willing to engage this way?
Speaker 2:I think is what I would do. I'm trying to run away mentor. I really want to put them in uncomfortable space because their kids are gonna be uncomfortable. Our kids are always uncomfortable. Always having adults tell them what to do, how they do it, sit in a classroom, be quiet, raise your hand.
Speaker 2:That's the wrong answer. Memorize the test. They feel like they have no control. And so why would I put them in another situation where they feel like an adult doesn't care about who they are, where they come from, what they want to do, who they want to be. I want to have people in the room that are very excited and furious and intentional about supporting and serving that kid.
Speaker 2:If you have an agenda and you're trying to come in and make these little gingerbread cookie shake kids out to be who you think they should be, then that's not for you. But if you want to come in and serve kids and families and communities to have long term sustainable change, and you wanna learn about them and do it through that lens, then I think that's the best way for it to be done. I always
Speaker 1:say it's our job to make a disciple of Jesus, not of you. Right? And and, man, just like, I am mister I don't like conflict. I don't I don't wanna have the hard conversation. Come on.
Speaker 1:Come one. Come on. Mentor. You wanna hang out with kids? It's awesome.
Speaker 1:You know? But things have changed since I've had my own kids. And if you run a mentoring organization or if you oversee mentors, just imagine if it's your kid.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And asking those hard questions. Hey. Tell me what you think about Rez. Hey. You do understand that your kid is probably experiencing a, b, and c.
Speaker 1:Tell me what you think about that. Asking those hard questions face to face, staring at them, and holding that tension, holding that kind of weirdness.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's uncomfortable, but you the kid is worth it. Kid is worth it. And so, man, we, as the adults, we, as the protectors, we, as, I mean, we hold open the door or we get to shut the door on who impacts our kids, on who interacts with our kids. And we owe it to them and we owe it to their families, we owe it to their moms to care enough to make ourselves feel a little bit uncomfortable by asking these vital, kind of questions.
Speaker 1:Right? And so
Speaker 2:Yeah, believe so. I hope so.
Speaker 1:For sure. Cool. All right, man. Well, Derek, that's all we got for today.
Speaker 2:Can I say one more thing? Every, every, every mentor that I know that has done mentoring the right way or ends up doing it the right way is changed by mentoring. If you want to get to know different people and you want to challenge what you believe and why you believe it, I think you get into mentoring. I think it's an easy way to challenge who you currently are and what you believe and why you believe it. I've welcomed so many people.
Speaker 2:During COVID I had this thing called porch time and it was outside of my front porch chairs, you know, eight to 10 feet apart. You know, we were trying to follow all the guidelines. You bring your own coffee, I'll, you know, I'll make mine. And initially people wanted me to come to their neighborhoods. I'm like, man, I'm always going to other people's side of town.
Speaker 2:I'm always going to other people's homes. I'm always, you come to my porch, come to my porch. And I got so many people to come to, to, to my side of the city. And they had not been over there before. Not like this.
Speaker 2:They come and they do events and they eat at restaurants and they go for, you know, activities or whatever. And then to come and sit in a neighborhood, to sit in a community. And I wanted them to see me wave at my neighbors. And I wanted to see, I wanted them to see kids riding the bikes up and down the street and playing in front yards and families barbecuing and people coming home from work. And I just wanted them to see, and a lot of people, not everybody, a lot of people that came over, they're like, man, this is not at all what I thought the East Side Of Oklahoma City to be.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, Oh, what did you think was going to happen over here? And, you know, get to hear how they see a group of people. And I'm like, I want to challenge you. I want to challenge that narrative that you see on the news that you hear in music and movies, that you heard from somebody who learned from somebody who heard from somebody that you saw at a Walmart that you, you know, like, I want to challenge that. And I want to bring you over here more often.
Speaker 2:In fact, I want to introduce you to other people who live over here. I want you to go to church over here. I want you to shop over here. I want you to eat over here. Come over here.
Speaker 2:And a lot of my mentors that drive into communities and drive back out, I encourage them to come and hang out, just come hang out, come hang out. And so for anybody that's listening to this and you feel like you have a different mentality of, you know, the stereotypical, avatar poster child for mentoring. If you feel like you want to get to know a different community and different people who will be voting, they get into mentoring, get into mentoring, find you a kid that is so different from you that you believe is going to challenge what you think, why you think it. I think that is the fastest route towards empathy, towards compassion, towards change. You think about, you know, let's, let's talk about Jesus.
Speaker 2:Jesus was like, kids are always alone. Let them through, let them through, like, come on in. Like he's, he's in people's homes, he's hanging out and the people that, you know, thinking Jesus shouldn't be there. That's where wherever they said Jesus shouldn't go, that's where he went. Wherever they were like, Jesus, you there?
Speaker 2:He was like, yep. And it was my homies. Like, know them by name. I'm down here all the time. I'm eating food with them.
Speaker 2:You know, like, I'm saying like, I want people literally to go to the other side of town to hang out with people that cannot be more different from them. And if you go with clean hands, a pure heart, pure intentions, and you're highly curious, and if you leave your judgments and your biases at the door and you just go to connect with people, you'll find that we're more similar than we are different. And I believe that compassion will grow when we put ourselves in difficult places. Now be wise, don't go get robbed. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:Like, don't, you know, don't, don't go, you know, with an open wallet per se. But I will say it's getting people in uncomfortable spaces and around places that they wouldn't normally be with people they wouldn't normally hang out with. I've seen a lot of change happen quickly, with that intentionality at the forefront of them. Think that's it.
Speaker 1:Man, the craziest thing about mentoring, everyone wants to get in it to transform a kid's life. And if they stick with it long enough, they are the ones who get transformed.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's
Speaker 1:the craziest thing. Absolutely. It's amazing. You know? But, it's good, Derek.
Speaker 1:Super thankful for you, man.
Speaker 2:Thank you, sir.
Speaker 1:Tell people how to find you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely. Derek Sire on, all social media handles, or you can go to mentoring.com. You can also check me out at restoreokc.org. Restore, rest0re0kc.org.
Speaker 2:Can find out more about all the mentoring, they get cool youth facing programming or youth service programming that we're doing, those two places.
Speaker 1:Awesome, Todd. I hope you guys took away a ton. And remember, you can mentor.