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You’re tired.
Not just physically; though yeah, that too.
You’re tired in your bones. In your soul.
Trying to be a steady husband, an intentional dad, a man of God… but deep down, you feel like you’re falling short. Like you’re carrying more than you know how to hold.
Dad Tired is a podcast for men who are ready to stop pretending and start healing.
Not with self-help tips or religious platitudes, but by anchoring their lives in something (and Someone) stronger.
Hosted by Jerrad Lopes, a husband, dad of four, and fellow struggler, this show is a weekly invitation to find rest for your soul, clarity for your calling, and the courage to lead your family well.
Through honest stories, biblical truth, and deep conversations you’ll be reminded:
You’re not alone. You’re not too far gone. And the man you want to be is only found in Jesus.
This isn’t about trying harder.
It’s about coming home.
Today's episode of the Dad Tired podcast is brought to you by Mr. Cool. You guys know that I moved from Oregon to South Carolina, and as it turns out, South Carolina has crazy hot summers, which made the garage completely unusable for me. Uh, I like to use the garage to work out, to work on the kids' bikes, to store stuff from the house that we don't use year round.
And it was just way too hot to be out there. We never would use it in the summertime because it was just way, way too hot. And so I was looking for a do-it yourself system, something that I could easily install on my own that would keep the garage usable year round. In the summers, I could turn on the AC out there and it would keep it nice and cool.
And in the winters, when it does dip down from time to time, I can turn on the heater. And just make that a family usable space all year round. I absolutely love the system. What I would actually do is use my app to schedule it to go on at certain times. So I would schedule it to go on at five or six in the morning before I would wake up and grab a cup of coffee.
And then as I wake up, go out there, the system turns on and it keeps that garage nice and cool and it's immediately ready for me to work out in the mornings. And I hadn't even had to think about it because I can preset that to turn on. Via the app. You can find out about all the Mr. Cool Products by going to mr cool.com.
That's M-R-C-O-O l.com. Again, mr cool.com, you can check out all their products. I highly recommend their fourth generation Estar DIY split system. You can check that out over on mr cool.com. That being said, let's jump into today's episode.
All right. Super excited to jump in my conversation with my best friend Casey today. I feel like I have an unfair advantage in life because I have a therapist best friend. So you and I have been friends since we were, what, 16, 17 years old? Mm-hmm. I think the last time we did this, we, we actually tried to do the map and I think it's now, then it was like 17 years now.
I think it's like. 38. 38 years, two years ago from 17. That's about 38 years. Yeah. Yeah. Three, almost four decades. Yeah, dude, we did an episode recently on the show where we were talking about friends, like having the kind of friends who you have no secrets with, who know who, all of who you are and like, and still love you, and just the freedom that you find in those kind of friendships.
You're one of like two of those kind of friends for me. Mm-hmm. Who just, you've seen me at my worst, you've seen? Mm-hmm. Literally the darkest moments of my life. You've been with me in those moments and Yep. Well before all the dad tired stuff, and I still feel completely loved and seen by you and. It's just super rare.
So I'm so grateful for your friendship. I wanna talk about you. You were just, I'm giving the audience context here, but you were just hanging out at our house for the last week. Mm-hmm. And as you always do, you help me think through stuff. I'm just trying to like watch a basketball game and you're just like, gimme go to the deepest parts of my soul, just like, come on.
Yeah. No, I love that about you. But you were asking me some good questions and just helping me tie some dots. Well, let me actually give some context here. I know I'm rambling here in this introduction, but just to give some context. So I was actually speaking at an event last weekend and you were here, you were going to that event with me and the night before the event.
We're hanging out with some of my neighbors and we're all just sitting around in a circle, standing around in a circle talking, and all of a sudden I'm like, I can feel what I normally feel the night before I go speak, which is starting to get like, I don't think it was anxiety, but just like my mind is now shifting from this conversation to.
Like, okay, I'm about to go speak. My mind is going there. And then all of a sudden I was telling you started to be like, well, what are you feeling? Like, what parts of your body are you just, you went into the mode. Yeah. And my back, my lower back starts to get tense, and I'm like telling you all these places on my body where I feel it, and you're like, okay, let's unpack it.
You know? I'm like, yeah, yeah. And for me, I was just, I'm pushing you. Yeah, you're, I'm getting you there. You know? Side note, as a therapist, you don't want to be doing therapy with your friends or family. Just as a, just as a I intentionally was, kept it light in surface. It was more friend of izing than totally therapizing, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's been our friendship for years. A disclaimer, even before you were like therapist Casey, you know, you just been a friend. Totally. But one thing, you were like, we, I remember we moved from outside into the kitchen and I would talk about, you know, my back, my lower back was feeling the stress and stuff, and you're like, okay.
You said the line, if your back, if that pain or that uncomfortable feeling could have a sentence, what would it be? And it took me a little bit to like figure it out. But I said I, I think I rambled through my answer, but I said something to the effect of maybe I'm not fully prepared for tomorrow. I. I could see you just light up like ding, ding.
There it is. You know, your body's trying to tell you something. So anyway, the whole point of what I want our conversation to be today for dads and for men is to really think holistically about this body and brain that God has given us. And you've really helped me think through. All the beauty of how God has created our bodies and brains to help us become fully the men that God has called us to be.
So I'll now step aside from my really long rambling introduction and tell me just some things you're starting to think and see from that perspective. Yeah. Well, what stuck out to me. Well, first of all, you know, as far as my credibility and credentials and where all of this is coming from, I'm a fresh graduate.
I have a master's. Just finished my, my master's like a week ago. I got about a year of clinical experience, which isn't very much. So this is all coming from a place of. Working on this myself, working on learning some stuff and some books, getting some theory, working this stuff out. So all you master therapists out there or whatever, you take this all with a grain of salt because I think this is just super helpful and I always love to work things that I, I learn out with friends and kind of work through it and like, Hey, this is this work?
Is this actually a thing? You know, I always kind of try. Do that with you and, and you know, a few others, but happy to be your Yeah, I think free Guinea pig. I get the free, free therapy. Yeah, free stuff. Yeah. And we've always challenged each other in that kind of way, and that's one of the main things I've appreciated out of our friendship and stuff.
But yeah, it's really interesting how I think, what I've noticed is that. Is that we kind of treat ourselves like we're brains on a thick, we think of our, our body, especially like from a Christian perspective. You know, we hear flesh and then, you know, the flesh is bad and, and all of these, and we just kind of like wrap everything.
Uh, put it in a box and then just call it bad, you know? And I think a lot of us think of our body and, and the things that come from our body, especially nowadays with things like anxiety and depression and stuff like this. Sadness and just like we look at all of these things as like bad and I think that it, they're, they're still created by God.
You know, they're still design in the human eye and the heart and the, the nervous system and blood flow. I mean, there's just so many things working for us. That are part of our body. There's urges and there's things that are the whole idea with the flesh. But when you look at your body or even your emotions or sensations as alarm systems, as just information givers rather than something that's like really bad, you know, like anxiety, this must be bad.
You know, all things anxiety, all anything, anytime. I feel that it must be bad. But when you look at that more from a, the perspective of. My body's giving me information right now. What is it telling me? Instead of just kind of like hovering it up. That was one of the things I, I noticed in you and what you were talking about.
'cause you weren't really present in that conversation with the neighbors. People were asking you something, you were kind of just throwing it out, you know, throwing a surface level. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy. You know. Oh, cool. You definitely, definitely, I noticed that where you switched into that just of kind of like, okay.
Jared's here, but he's not really present. And that's kind of why I was asking you that kind of was going on. And then I asked you about what kind of stuff was going on in your body. I think what's interesting about that is that you can have, you can take that scenario and kind of run back and forth the whole spectrum.
So for me it was, I was thinking about the next day and my body was trying to gimme some kind of signals about the next day. But you can play that in a scenario where. You are starting to feel your body is giving you some kind of signals. And maybe it's you're feeling that in your marriage or in your parenting, which every guy mm-hmm.
Has felt that. And I know there are some moms who sneak in here too, who are listening. Every wife and mom has felt that, like, in that conversation, there were signals happening that I was just packaging it all up as like, well, this is my normal, what I feel before, before a conference kind of thing. But what you help, if you even notice it, if I notice, I don't even notice those things, you know?
Right. It was all kind of blended together, and so I think what was helpful is to piece together or piece apart, tease apart. What is it that I'm feeling? Where specifically am I feeling it and what is the signal that that's trying to communicate to me? Mm-hmm. Which I think if you could learn those kind of skills, which you've really helped me start to at least think about them, that can be really helpful in your parenting and your marriage as well.
But you gave me a really good analogy about like just information givers when you're talking about alarms like fire alarm system and stuff. Can you tell us that analogy? Yeah. It seems silly to think of your body. Thinking of it as an alarm system is, is really kind of just a simplified way of doing it.
'cause your body's pretty complex, but I think it's easy, it's easier to start to understand these things when you think of your emotion, like anxiety as an alarm. And when you think of an alarm and what it does, the easiest alarm to think about is like, you know, a fire alarm and the purpose of the fire alarm.
You think of like the whole point of the fire alarm is to disorient you. It's to cause you to become uncomfortable. It's not supposed to be enjoyable. It's not supposed to be like anything that's pleasant, right? It's, it's, you know, you can't think it's so loud. You can barely hear, you know, barely kind of think.
And that's by design. You know, the person that designed the fire alarm is meant to, Hey, I want there to be a sense of urgency about this. This is really important, but really at what a fire alarm is essentially doing is it's giving you information, it's giving the closest people information, and that information is, there's smoke nearby.
That's it. It's just really intense. By design, so it causes all this, this stuff, and that's the whole point, right? But at the root of it is, it's okay, there's smoke nearby, but a lot of us, you know, when you think of stuff like that, we think about the uncomfortable parts. So. Rather than the information that it has to give us.
So now that I have the information, now I can work with what that information is. Okay, there's smoke, and now what do I, I kind of take that outta my body and I kind of put it in my brain, use my brain now and think about, okay, well now that I know that there's smoke, should I run for my life and grab the quickest thing, or should I take the bacon off of the the stove?
Right, right. That now gives me the option instead of just reacting when I'm comfortable and I'm okay with the fact of being disoriented or uncomfortable, I can now have a choice on what to do on, I can now look at my surroundings. I can kind of be present in the moment rather than just like, get me out of this.
Just kind of freaking out. Right. And not being able to handle that sensation. Yeah. That parallel you told me that, that that was super helpful because when you think through like the fire alarm. What could happen in the middle of the night, and for some reason I've had this, I think everyone's fire alarms seems to go off at like 3:00 AM when there's no smoke in the house, you know?
But so when that can't, when that happens, you just get so disoriented that you just, you could just run outta the house, or you could just like freak out and start spraying everything down with a hose. Or you know, a fire extinguisher or something like you, you just go over the top with the information given.
Yeah. And like what you said, yeah. You start reacting. What I thought what you said was helpful was like, okay, take that information. It's just giving you information and it might just be move the bacon, you know, like move the bacon. Mm-hmm. And where that analogy feels really. So direct is like when you think through a dad, and I'll just speak for myself.
When you just kind of fly off the handle on your kids, 'cause you're just feeling all the things and it all feels disoriented and blurry, you're trying to get 'em to bed and every kids are running and screaming and then all of a sudden one of 'em says something disrespectful. And that was like the final gasoline on.
And you're just like, you say something off the cuff, you yell, you say something sharp, you say something you regret. And the same thing happens in marriage. Where you're feeling all the things and as opposed to just saying, okay, I have information being passed to my brain. What am I gonna do with information?
Is it just as simple as moving the bacon, or am I like, am I getting the hose out and pouring out the whole pouring water on the whole house when really all I need to do is move the bacon? Right. And really to even go into a little bit more, like deeper of that analogy to say someone's a dad's just like really angry, super, something really happened that triggered them, maybe their childhood stuff.
Maybe they're just kind of dealing with just like this intensity and they're, they're wanting to like flip out, but really what's happening is, and, and a lot of times they're just not aware of it, is that if they were to stop and press pause and then take a finger and point to all the sensations that they actually have in their body.
In that very moment. 'cause that's really what's putting them in this. They're so uncomfortable with what happened and what they're feeling with their body. They kind of have to just resolve it really quickly. And they either do it from how they've learned to resolve that or whatever it may be. Really what's happening is.
You have a headache, your body temperature's changed. Maybe your cheeks are a little bit red, you know, feeling red. Maybe you're, you feel tingling in your body, you know, or maybe your vision's kind of like you're losing your vision. And when you can actually identify that in yourself of what's actually happening, that's your feeling like you're losing your cool because you have a headache and it came on really quickly, or it came on, you know, and it's disorienting.
So when you can identify those things in yourself, just like you were talking about with your back, you know, or whatever it may be, when you can identify these things, you can, it creates space between it, it creates space between you and your disorient. You aren't rage, like you're just looking at it, you know, from a distance.
Yeah. So when you can see it, it creates distance from it. When you're aware of it, you can actually look at it and practice noticing it in the moment. And that allows you to now have choice rather than just to react like, okay, I'm just gonna run for my life, or I'm just gonna yell, or I'm just gonna do whatever.
But when you can realize that, okay, this is, I have a headache and my temperature's changed. Hmm. That's really what's happening right now. And I don't like it and it's really uncomfortable. But now that I'm noticing that, that essentially gives you a choice in the moment rather than just like at the doctor's office, you know you have that little thing that hits your knee and you just kind of react.
Right? Right. Not rather than just like a reflex. Does that make sense? Yeah. It's, it's, did I explain that? Well? I, I kind of ramble on stuff. No, it's, that's a really, it's, it's so helpful because I think that guys, I'm guilty. I would, I've talked about this for eight years on this show. Like I'm the emotional one.
You know, Layla is freakishly good at what you just described to the point where it's like frustrating for me. Um, but mm-hmm. She has literally said this, where she'll be like. Okay. I feel angry. Let me like take my anger, set it on the table, evaluate it. What is making me feel angry. I'm like, why do you have to be so like emotionally healthy?
You know, just like, let's fight it out, you know? But. But that's what you're describing is is what she does and it's so helpful. And I think a lot of guys, we just make excuses and we're talking about anger, but it could be any emotion, it could be anything that we're like, I'm just reacting. I'm just gonna react and do whatever I wanna do.
But to say to like have a tool, and again, I think this is so beautiful. I love the way you said like. All of the body is God's creation. Mm-hmm. And he's redeeming all of it for his glory. You know, it's not like we just have this spirit and we're just trying to, I think you, it's appropriate, there are times where Paul says, beat your flesh.
You know, like put your flesh in submission. I think that that, when we're talking about sin issues, absolutely. But even this is like putting your flesh in submission. Right. It's the same way of saying, I'm not gonna be led by all the emotions that I'm, feel all the um. Sensations or emotions that my body's feeling right now.
I feel really flush in my face and my temperature went up and my heart is racing. So I have no choice but just to scream at people. I can take control of my emotions. I can take control of my body and say, okay, what is my body telling me right now? These are the signals popping up on the dash, or this is the fire alarm going off.
And we talked about before in the podcast, like. How helpful it is for a guy to just take like a 30 minute walk that adds that separation. But I think what you're saying adds a whole nother layer to it where you're like, not only am I taking a walk, but I'm like you said, I'm pointing to the places that I'm feeling it in my body, and then I become more accustomed to, yeah, what I'm feeling.
It's almost less about controlling your emotions and more about working with your emotions. What are they saying? And then making it about like your thoughts. They aren't really always trustworthy. They are very trustworthy. 'cause they're, they're trying to help you. These emotions aren't against you. Like the, your body doesn't just like work against it feels like that.
Because of these types of alarms, like a fire alarm feels like, okay, this fire alarm's not on my side. Right? It, it's really annoying and I do not like it. You wouldn't go back to it later on and try and like, okay, how do I muffle this for next time? Right? How do I change this and make this just less like, just so I'm more comfortable, you know, when it's trying to let me know they're smoke.
Like you don't want it to be, you don't want to be comfortable in the same way. You want anxiety to be Anxie. Anxiety is a great thing. Fear, it lets you know something that's happening in the present. So if you, when you work with these things and you're okay to feel them, then you can work with the present and say, okay, there's something that I need to do.
And that's what we did with your like, Hey, I, I need to prepare a little bit more. You didn't just be like, okay, my back's hurting. I'm gonna go pop an aspirin and then I'm gonna get hit the massage gun and I'll be good. You allowed yourself to feel it and just notice it, and then that allowed you to now.
Discern. Yeah. Is this something that's trying to give me information or is this something and being present with it, I think is the key to helping it work with you and work for you. You know, just like your thoughts. I can have the thought of Jared just doesn't like me, you know, like he, he said this one thing, and I can have that thought, but it doesn't ne I gotta kind of work with that to like, okay, what evidence do I have that that's where, you know, things like that.
Does that kinda make sense? Yeah. It's a really nuanced conversation because. You think about the scriptures that say, be anxious about nothing, right? Like we talk, the scriptures give the sense that we're not supposed to have anxiety. But I think what you're saying is I think what we could do in our day and age is to take things like that and it's like, oh shoot, I'm feeling anxious.
I shouldn't feel anxious. So let me numb it. Yeah, I think we just kind of numb it quickly. Yes. And like you said, it, numbing can be as simple as, lemme go pop an aspirin and hit the massage gun and go to bed. It could be, let me watch some tv. It could be, have a beer. It could be look at porn. It could be having it like you could just keep going down.
Yeah. You could just keep going down that, that spectrum. But what we're trying to do in, in all of it is just to not be anxious. What you're saying is like the sensation of anxiety isn't necessarily bad and you don't have to be ruled by it. Yes. The key is to let it work in your favor, right? To give you the signals it needs to give you.
To figure out what I'm trying to think of, like what would that look like practically in a marriage fight? I'll give you, I'll give you a per, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Oh, oh, okay. In a marriage? Marriage, yeah. I was trying to think through it. In marriage, fight. Fight, like, okay. Yeah. You're feeling all the sensations in a marriage fight mm-hmm.
And everything, and you just like, you want to explode. Yeah. But how would you use that towards your advantage of like, what is the information? What are some examples where mm-hmm. It would be like, this is trying to give me some information. About what I'm feeling, and maybe it ties to, and you've talked about this before, like every fight is like necessarily, it's essentially one fight.
It's the same fight. Yeah. It's, it is. It's always the same fight. Yeah, for sure. There's different theory obviously on that, but anxiety's there to be able to say, Hey, I might get hurt in a few minutes. I'm gonna build up my defenses. I'm gonna try and protect myself because it hurt emotionally, or I'm, I'm about to get hurt in a way where I don't understand why it's hurting.
I don't really understand what it is. So to really just hear this and be like, okay, well this is more of a protective factor. This is just, all this is doing is just helping me, you know, to try and protect myself. I mean, if you think of anxiety just from a, a basic level, if you go and lay down on in an intersection.
And you close your eyes like you want your body, or if you're on the edge of a cliff, you want. Your body to give you some sort of like, okay, let's not be calm about this. Let's like get away from the edge right now you want your, and that's not a sentence, right? That is a sensation. That's where anxiety is.
That's where you want anxiety to be there. You just don't want it late at night while you're watching Netflix, eight o'clock or when you're, you know, just driving and then all of a sudden you're feeling anxious. You know? But when you can be a, when you can try and just notice when you can work on that.
We kind of talked about this. Had this kind of conversation a little while ago, but when you work on this kind of noticing muscle, when you can notice, start noticing these things about yourself rather than push it away. But just kind of like, look at it. What is telling me that I'm anxious right now? And have I felt this before?
Have I felt it like exactly the way it the way it is? And the way that I know that is that okay, my back is tense in the same way, in the same spot. You know, I've got a headache. That's how I know, and I've felt this before I've spoke, like you gave that example, I've felt, I felt this before. I spoke before, or I've felt this in a, in a fight or whatever.
What you said there was really interesting about the defense mechanism for I'm about to get hurt. I think that's probably gonna resonate with a lot of couples. 'cause even for a guy, when you're in the middle of like, you can tell your marriage is about, you're in the middle of what's gonna be probably a fight or disagreement or some kind of friction with you and your wife.
Mm-hmm. You start to feel all those things. You might react out of anger or silence or whatever your tactic is, but all of it is kind of that, what you described, and I think it's really accurate, is that defense mechanism, which is, I might get, I might, yeah, safety, I might get hurt here, and so I have to put some kind of wall up, and I wonder if we could just become men who, like you said, grow that muscle.
So I know what I'm feeling right now when I'm about to get into an argument or disagreement or friction, I know what I'm feeling and I just say, instead of putting up all the walls, I just say, right now, I actually feel really scared that this conversation is mm-hmm. Gonna turn into something where I might get hurt.
Yeah. And, and like, yeah, that seems so simple, dude. But it would be like a life changing thing for, for every marriage. Well, that's the thing. Is that now, okay, let's just follow the track down. Okay. Now I'm feeling anxious. I notice that I'm feeling anxious 'cause my lower back or my top, my, my, I can feel these sensations.
This is how every time we're about to forget in a fight that I'm coming home. And it might be in the, the idea of I'm hurt now I'm getting hurt or whatever. But so, so you've got these signals that you're having and then what you're actually learning. And if you, if you look at that and you try and draw those sentences to those sensations and you say, okay, I'm protecting myself right now.
I'm gearing up to protect myself. Now when you think of that and you create that sentence, now you have something new to communicate. That's what's actually happening. You know, maybe you're arguing over the trash can or you're arguing over whatever it may be. You're having these arguments that are super, super simple and, and never the fight, the fights aren't ever about those things.
You know what I mean? They're never about like, who emptied the dishwasher or whatever, you know? Right. So you go in and you say in your mind, and you kind of process is like, Hey, I am putting up my defenses right now. I'm afraid that I'm gonna get hurt. Like you said, what would that now be? I've noticed that I'm putting up my guard now.
I commu Maybe you communicate that and say, Hey, you know what? I feel like I'm about to get hurt by you right now. That's what's coming up for me right now. I, I just, I don't want that. I don't want to hurt you. I don't know if that's something that you're feeling too right now. And then now you're talking about like the real stuff rather than the dishwasher.
When that was emptied and when that needs to be emptied and how promptly that needs to be emptied or whatever. It's, you know, whatever the silly stuff is. You know you, yeah. You said something when you were here just this last week. Like every fight is really about the same thing, or every fight kind of comes down to getting your deepest wound, getting poked and Yeah, that was one of the most convicting things you've ever shared with me.
'cause I'm like, if I reflect on the biggest friction points in my marriage. It was always, I can make a direct line to like my wound. Mm-hmm. Layla sticking a thumb in my wound from like Yeah. Childhood. Yeah. And that's why it's the same fight. You know, and this is a theory that this is like a kind of a, a relational theory based on this like type of therapy, emotional focus therapy.
And the idea is that when you're in basic conflict, you are like essentially by one small surface level comment. You're instantly going into the other person's deepest wound, and that's why you're yelling like two seconds later after the, I mean, why you're talking about spoons and, and bowls and why is this so coming up so much for you?
And it's, and it's, each person has this cycle of like, of unintentionally putting their wound in, putting their thumb into the other person's wound. And that's part of. Something that just to kind of be aware of and be like, Hey, I think, I think you're hurt right now. I think I got my, my thumb in your wound.
You know? Or that's how you're feeling about yourself. There's a process to work through that, but that, that's kind of the basic assumptions. If there's a couple that just feels like they're, it's kind of cyclical for them. They keep. Like the same argument keeps coming up and maybe the, the path that they got to that destination was different.
Dishwasher trash, too much work, whatever the thing is. How do you get to the point where you're like, where you can say what you just said, Hey, did I just like prick your wound? Or however you would say that. You know, like Layla has said that to me. We've gotten to the point where Layla said, has said that to me.
Like, I think I just like. Hit something, a nerve in you that I, that is much deeper than what we were talking about. Mm-hmm. And I didn't mean to hit that. Let's talk about that. But that takes a lot of practice and self-awareness and humility and empathy. Like how would a couple, if there's a guy listening, like how does he even start Yeah.
To, to breach that with his wife. Do these first, the three easy steps, right? No, no. It's, it's, it's not, it's a very complicated thing, but, and that's, that's the design of therapies, you know. Yeah. Gone through. But I will say, just from a practical note, you know, I think that could be just be helpful for just the random guy is really understanding what is your wound.
What is the wound that someone else has their thumb in? And really understanding just the whole process. When does that happen? You know, what's actually being affected? What do I feel? Do I feel, and, and by the way, just side tangent feelings as far as an actual true feeling, like frustration is one, but the frustration.
I feel annoyed. You know, things like that. Those are real feelings, but they're very surface level To really get down to like what is actually causing those things is like there's fear, sadness. Anger. Those are usually where you're gonna go to those, like those primary moments. It's obviously not happiness, right?
You're not kidding, you know, and the only other one is like surprise and disgust. So most likely those aren't the ones. So it's usually gonna be around anger or fear or sadness. Sometimes it's hard to do that with ourselves, is really admit to ourselves that we're angry or we're afraid to try and get that.
But that's what that deepest wound is, is triggering. Fear or sadness or whatever it may be. Understanding that about yourself I think is the first part. The other person isn't gonna think about and worry about your wound that you, you don't even understand yourself. So I think really understanding yourself and being curious about that part of you, I think can really help you communicate a little bit better about like, Hey, these are the times where I feel that this wound.
Is most hurt because when I was eight, this person said this thing and it was like devastating for me, and I think about it. It can come up in a second for me. I can probably ask you, you know, just even for the listener right now, I'm just like, I can probably just generally ask you, Hey, is there something that just comes up really quickly that in the middle of a fight or whatever it is.
It probably will. You could feel it right now. Come to the surface just of being like, Hey, this has affected me my whole life, and I could probably come up with a sentence to define it. You know, so just being aware in yourself of that I think could be really helpful. And start journey. Start that journey, you know?
Yeah. Spiritual leadership stuff, man. This is like, you wanna lead your family well, you have to dig under the surface and tackle these kind of things. And this is the gold man of like growing in manhood when you were describing that. I'll just share, I'll share something that I've been able to make those kind of ties.
It's, I'm embarrassed to say this, but they're like, there are certain personalities of men specifically. That are hard for me to be around. So if we just go in the order of what you just described. So what I would say. In a very surface level as I would just be like, oh, that dude's annoying. So I know I'm probably not supposed to say it as a pastor and a, you know, spiritual leader, whatever, but I feel that, you know, sometimes I'm around a certain per mm-hmm.
Type of personality and a guy, and I'm like, that's just annoying. Well, annoyed is not really what I'm probably feeling. And so, so annoying is the surface level. And then I take a shovel out of my soul and I, and I dig into that soil and I toss it and I go a layer deeper. Yeah. The next layer. Is, if I'm being self-aware, it's like, okay, what part of my body do I feel tension in when I'm around this quote unquote annoying dude?
Like kind of person. And usually it'll be some kind of insecurity, which is now we're starting to get closer to, I've taken another scoop of the soil and I've dug a little bit deeper. And insecurity for me is going to tie back to fear. So fear, I'm not good enough. I don't measure up in the circle. This guy is, it is not really that he's annoying, it's that he's starting to poke some of my insecurities and my fears that I can't measure up as a man.
Yes. And this, you know, this is hard stuff to admit, you know, but especially people Yeah, no, no. Publicly. It's easier to admit when you, you're just sitting in my leaving room and we're talking about this over, but dude, there's a specific, it was like a Wednesday. My freshman year in fall in California and I was just joined the soccer team and there were some juniors and seniors who were literally making fun of me from like head to toe making fun of me and I.
I remember the day I remember what I was wearing. I remember where I was standing. I remember the temperature of the, like, I remember everything about that moment and how it made me feel. Now you fast forward from freshman, you know, 15-year-old little Jared to 36-year-old Jared, and I'm around that kind of personality of the same kids, juniors and seniors who were making fun of me that day.
What my surface level is. Is, I'm annoyed that dude's annoying, but really what I'm feeling is like, oh shoot, I'm 15-year-old Jared who feels insecure around this guy, and he's p pricking my, uh, insecurities and my value as a man. And this is where gospel spiritual leadership happens. And this is why these body signals and the stuff we're talking about is so important so that I can feel all of those things.
From getting past the annoying to feeling the sensation in my body to being self-aware, to making direct ties back to childhood, to say that is not what those boys said about me is not who I am. I'm a delighted son of the most high God. This is who I am regardless of what I can accomplish today as a 36-year-old.
And regardless of what I look like or sounded like or acted like as a 15-year-old boy, and so. This is why I'm, I'm just trying to like tie a bow here. 'cause I wish we could do like multiple counseling sessions for me and for the guys, but just for us to say like, why are we talking about this stuff? It could feel like, you know, foo fu like, what dude do we need?
We don't need therapy. We're, man. It's like, bro, whoa, whoa. This is the kind of stuff that changes us. Woo. Yeah. What did I say? Foo Woo. This is the kind of stuff that changes us as men and as a result, I end up being a better husband. Father and disciple. So anyway, that was a long rant, man. I'm gonna give you final last words, bro.
Any, any final thoughts on that? Yeah, well, I mean, I think that was, that was good. I, my hope and prayer for my friends and my family and myself and the stranger that I am able to talk to or impact, you know, is just. It's, it's really hard to feel the good emotions, you know, like peace and joy and you know, when you aren't okay to feel the other emotions as well.
You know, you can't just shut off the bad ones and feel the good ones. You know, it's kind of like. Like an electrical panel. Like you can't just, there are aren't, you know, it's not just, okay, let me flip off the quick kitchen and do all that stuff. You gotta, it's kinda one switch you can either feel or you don't feel.
Mm. And I think that being okay with anxiety, being okay and letting it be there and realizing that what I'm feeling in my sensations right now, just a headache, it's just my temperature changing and my body doesn't know how to give me sentences. It doesn't know how to give me a formulated thing. So it just has to.
Warn me of these bullies that I had in high school or that it's, all I can do is use my digestive system, or my brain, or my skin temperature to let me know something that, Hey, this something's not right. And then I use my brain to work through whatever that is, whether it's valid or not, you know? But I, I give that just a, just.
Yeah, just as like a, as a hope for people to kind of get to that point. And I'm still learning it. Obviously this is like a lifelong thing, but to be really helpful. Well, man, I appreciate your wisdom and your humility and your friendship. You have such a deep empathy and love for people. I wish you could just sit one-on-one with all of our guys, dad tired guys, and just help them process the way I feel really lucky to get that with you.
Um, thanks man. I think that maybe the homework for you as a listener. Appreciate that, bro. I feel like the homework for the listener is, whenever you're listening to it, this episode, just try to spend the rest of today and over the next couple days, like as those sensations come up, instead of just numbing them out, which is usually our first response.
Like, I don't wanna feel that. Let's get away from that feeling instead of running from the fire alarm. Or muffling knit, just say, Hmm, I wonder what my body might be trying to tell me. And again, I just think everything like God doesn't waste, you know? Like he's the creator. He's the one who knit that body together so beautifully and so strategically.
And I think he in tandem will use your body and his spirit to just be like, all right, let me talk to you for a minute. Don't muffle it out. Mm-hmm. That's really gracious of a God to do that for us. 'cause. Every other animal's just flying on instinct, you know? But we've got this whole part of us, you know, mind, body, soul, spirit, like all of it.
To just take all that information to help us become the man God's called us to be. So bro, love you. Thank you, thankful for you, and thanks for giving us your wisdom today, man. Of course, man. Thanks for having me.
Hey guys, as always, I hope that episode was helpful for you on your journey of becoming more like Jesus and helping your family do the same. Again. If you haven't jumped into our Family Leadership program, we would love to have you dive in, get to know you a little bit better, and challenge you to become the man God's called you to be.
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