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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
Today we're talking about a soccer club that your kid is definitely
not in.
Small roster, specialized coaches, kids graduating
into top Academies by the age of 13.
This isn't some fantasy.
It's real.
It's called Manhattan Kickers.
Our guest today is Evan Rosenthal, president of Manhattan Kickers FC.
Evan co-founded the club in 2001 has been running it for 2015.
25 years since, a former high school captain who played at
Washington University before injury ended his career.
Evan stepped away from the corporate world and rebuilt kickers around one idea.
Development is the product.
And this is't in theory, kickers has been an early stop
for players who have gone on to MLS academies like NYCC,
and Red Bull, and have also enjoyed success at the first team
level, both in the U.S. and in Europe
Alumni include names like Matt Miasca, Luca,
Koliesho, Johnny Shore, and Julian Hall,
amongst many others.
This is a club worth studying.
Absolutely fascatingating case study.
Most important is, you didn't say anything about my new background,
which is ironically, to our listeners and viewers,
I ended up traveling thousands of miles, spent thousands
of dollars to see my son play in England in a tournament.
So I guess I did not learn anything from this podcast.
Well, I don't know about that.
If you're going to travel and pay thousands of dollars for a tournament
you might as well face Manu, Liverpool,
and Man City's Academies.
I think it's a pretty good deal.
I hate when you put a positive spin on everything.
This is chasing the game, youth soccer in America..
Let's get started.
Evan, welcome to, uh, chasing the Game.
And, uh, on, on the record,
this is the closest I've ever
been to Manhattan kickers.
So I've, uh, I feel like I'm, I'm really,
I'm stepping up, uh, in, in the game here.
Uh, look, Manhattan kicker is,
it's got this mystique in New York.
You might not know it or pretend
not to know it, which is fine.
parents talk about it.
That's where all the
cool kids go play soccer.
The one you really want to be a part of.
Yeah.
Well, you know, when, this is
something kids aspire to, to get to
before everyone gets familiar with
the academy system and all that.
So, let's go, I mean, does this
mystique create pressure on you?
Well first, thanks for having me.
I, you know, I've listened to the
shows like I've, mentioned and I think
what you guys are doing is great.
I think the youth soccer world, there's
a lot of you sort of confusion and
frustration and things that aren't clear.
So I think any effort to.
Educate people is great.
So I'm glad to take part of it and, you
know, give you, you know, my point of
view from my experience of what I've been
doing over the past, you know, 25 years.
Can you just say that?
We didn't make you say that.
you
So,
well, and, and,
and,
and, and, and un,
un, unlike Liron, I ha I have
been close just on the other sideline.
um, which looked like our teams
were in a bit of a rondo for, uh,
for 80 minutes each go around.
So
It's, much, it's much, it's,
it's much better being on the
opposite side of a camera.
than it is on the sideline.
it's, it's true.
Um, so, so back to the question.
I mean, you, there's a
mystique around this club.
you've built something
special, almost a myth.
Is this something you're aware of
or is it something that is difficult
to live up to year after year?
Um, you know, when
you're on the inside, it.
Of the club, I hear, you know, praise from
different people, but we're just trying
to work hard and, do the small things and
coach soccer and, you know, create a good
experience for the kids, for the coaches.
So yeah, things go well, we hear,
praise, but it's not something we
focus on, it's just still youth soccer.
It's just such, like we were
talking about before, it's just
such a small corner of everything.
So it's fun to sort of be into it at the
level that we are and enjoy what we do.
And I say we, I mean our coaches.
but yeah, it's, it's just sort
of a day by day thing with
you know that it's, it's
not industry standard to say
good things about the club you
play in, or the club you left.
This is why I'm saying this
is not a, like a usual jargon.
it's, it's pretty extraordinary.
Everything you hear about, uh,
this club I was never a part of
or invited to, but that's, that's
We're open.
You know, it's, we're a small
club, so it's, it's easier
for us to, to hold standards.
we have, it's U six through U 12.
We have one team in each age group.
We, we, you know, we
don't carry a big roster.
all the teams, pretty much our
main trainings we're back to back.
We do the younger kids and the
older kids, and we have a coaching
staff that, pretty much is, knows
every kid in the whole club.
So our U 12 coach.
Those, all the younger kids are younger
team coach, they'll stay after and help.
So it's sort of a, we make it
very small so we're able to
really focus on the details.
And we have a lot of coaches who are, who
love what they do and are into it, that
we go over the details and we try not
to let things slip through the cracks.
And because we're small, you know,
I think it, as, as a director, I
think it's hard to even keep the
standards up in this small club.
I can't imagine a bigger club.
But, you know, I think that
our, our, the size of our club
helps, helps us focus on quality.
Can you
Talk a a bit about how you started it.
What was the philosophy
Where did you see the white space in
the market 25 years ago, as you got
into the youth soccer
world?
So it's.
How it happened was, I, I was
working at a, at a corporate job
after I graduated college, and
I had played in college, nothing
great in terms of my playing career.
I got injured and I, I didn't
think I'd be doing soccer.
And my brother was coaching
in the city at time, my older
brother, and he started coaching.
Yet there was a, like a community
recreation club that still exists
called the Manhattan Kicker Soccer Club.
And he, with another parent, a guy named
Jim Gilliam, who was really helpful
in the start of everything, decided to
take it into a more serious direction.
And at that point I took a team,
my brother took a team, my brother
was a director, and that's how the
club grew for the first 10 years.
And the idea.
There, there was no grand plan, but
it was just to do a really good job
and to really be intense and to,
you know, have higher standards.
Like, go back to that, those early times.
We, a small example is
like, we had training gear.
The kids wore training gear and
people were like, oh, these guys
are, they get too seriously.
Why would they wear the
same shirts in practice?
You know, the kids can wear
their, replica jerseys, but now
it's pretty, pretty standard.
So there are things like that that
we, we took seriously and were able
to, do something nice with soccer that
wasn't being done, by other clubs.
Both my brother and I grew up in
Cleveland playing club soccer,
and we loved our experience.
and I think that part of it, you know,
made us wanna have a, another offer that
experience as coaches to the next kids.
And we, we, we really liked like
the, the club soccer part of it
and being part of a good program.
this is superficial, but when I'm looking
around and, and obviously these clubs
have to exist, tuition, a business,
many of these clubs we're seeing now
actually extending the length of time.
Kids stay within a club, they'll
go all the way to U 16, 17, 18.
We just see 'em grow in
multiple layers of team.
You stop at U 12, that is not a usual
thing for a club at, at that level.
Was that a conscious decision?
Why?
Why was that decision
Well, it evolved over the years.
At one point we went to U 14, but
like, like I was saying, we have
one team in each age group, and a
lot of our kids are the top maybe.
Quarter or you know, depending on the
group move to the MLS clubs and we've
sort of supported that over the years.
And so by the time they get to that
age and move, we, it's, it doesn't
really make sense to continue having
a team if you, if you lose those
level of players and that we're not
gonna bring in players from elsewhere.
It, it changes the whole
dynamic of the team.
And then the other big thing is, is
it small sided to 11 sided and the
facilities needed and, and that stuff.
And then I think that the main reason
after all that, even if we had the
fields and the kids stayed with us,
is that we've gotten good at this.
We have a good sort of,
knowledge base of what we do.
So we sort of just try to keep making
it better and not try to expand.
And I think that's been a strength
of the club is, a lot of clubs the
coaches will wanna move up with.
Into the older ages.
So they lose that knowledge from the
younger ages and they have somebody who
maybe doesn't have a lot of experience,
but I've been doing this for 25 years.
You know, the main coach, Adamir, who,
who works with me, he was a player, he is
been doing this his whole life, basically.
we have that knowledge and we're able
to just help the other coaches and,
it, it gives us a huge advantage,
which I think is not common in, in
the, in the US as much to have, coaches
working a long time in these ages.
When, when you were, when you decided,
you and your brother, and then I guess
with Jim's, help at the beginning as
well, started to think about building
this, From a development methodology
perspective, what did you guys look
at and say, we want to be this and
we definitely don't want to be that.
It's tough.
I think things have
evolved over the years.
I think we, the way we maybe
played 20 years ago is different
than the way we play now.
And I think the club has gone
through different kind of like eras.
I, I, the way I think of it is where
I, I've been here the whole time,
but different coaches have come
in and have had their influence.
You know, for a while we had a
coach, named Boris Bozic, who's a
Serbian coach, who went on to, run
the Success Academies, but he sort of
had a little bit of influence there.
And then we had a coach, Hector Nunez,
who was a Catalan and who coached at
Barcelona, and he had his influence.
Once Aaron, I think that the club adapted
a little bit to there, and now it's,
you know, with me as Asir, the, the
coach who I mentioned who grew up in the
club and we, we have our own way now.
So I think it's, it's
changed over the years.
I think style wise, it's, it's changed,
but we've always, the one thing we
that have stuck with us is, is futsal.
We play it intensely in the
winter, and that's sort of
influenced our style overall.
You know, we're, we value, decision
making is the key thing with, with us.
The kids have to be, we, we smart players,
of course, we like skillful players.
we like to keep the ball, we pass, we
like, intelligent players is our goal.
That's, that's a style we we wanna play.
it is beautiful football to watch.
What does the, there's a
sever a certain level of
commitment that comes with being a
kicker player and a kicker family.
What does that look like.
Yeah.
It's a big commitment I feel
for the, these kids this age.
But the commitment is more for
the parents than the kids, because
we train four times a week.
And for like a U 7, that's not a lot.
It's, you know, it's, it's a few hours.
It's like, but for the parent
in New York City, getting to the
field, the commuting, it's a lot.
It's, it's a lot.
So it's a commitment.
It's not for everybody to train four
times a week, hour and a half trainings.
so it sort of self-selects in a way.
we don't have that many kids
that try out for our club.
it is a commitment, but you know,
it, obviously you're training
four times a week at that age.
It, it pays off.
What's the barrier?
When you say you don't have a lot of
kids trying out for the club, what's
the, what do you think the barrier is?
Well, we don't, we don't recruit kids.
We don't advertise.
We'll advertise, like we have a summer
camp that we do, and that's sort
of separate from our club, but we
don't, we're not trying to get kids.
They, they come to us and we sort of make
it a little bit like not so easy to, that
we set the dynamic early in that, if you
wanna come, you, come to out, come to this
date, you know, that's the first thing.
We're not getting on calls
with parents and having long
conversations before they come.
do you find it's a hard sell for parents
to understand the, the U 12 cutoff?
I don't know, I think
it depend on the age.
Like if, if it's a younger kid, like
let's say a U seven, I don't even think
they're looking that far down the road.
That's so, so far down that maybe
they're not looking that far.
And, the benefit, what we have for us
is that we've been doing this for a long
time and there's been so many success
stories that we're able to use those
examples is how, how it works out well.
So I think people buy into what we
do because we've proven that it work.
It can work out well at the
end for whatever their goal is.
So let's try to break it down a
little bit, like what is really
a, a Manhattan kickers kid.
We had an interview with, our, our
last interview with was with a, uh,
Dutch coach who coaches u twelves and
is also a scout at the second, their
second division professional team.
And he talked about this idea of
looking for young kids that have motor
skills, this concept of motor skills.
You were, you were saying
something more about the IQ
of soccer even at a young age.
what is it that you're looking
for at that young age when,
when someone comes to kickers
We don't even, we don't have the
luxury to like pick kids, like a
coach at a big club would have.
You know, like when, when I speak to the
coaches at big clubs, they're actually
choosing amongst top a, a large group
of top players from smaller clubs.
We just take the kids who
come and try out for us.
So it's not like we have a big choice.
We look for potential in the
kid, obviously physically, it
depends what age, but it's.
More is their motivation, I would
say is, is the biggest part of it.
And, but as they get older, like a
6-year-old, motivated 6-year-old is great.
If he could come, he wants to be
there the whole hour and a half.
He's, he's focused.
We're all excited to get a kid
like that, but it's kind of rare.
But then as they get older, they have
to be able to keep up with the group.
So like a U 10 would have to have
a significant amount of experience
and still be motivated and have all
the, the, the tools to jump right in.
But on a U 10, that's a great, you
just brought up, like, would that
be a cognitive thing that you see?
Okay.
There's a certain thing that says to
me, this is a Manhattan kickers kid.
Or is it, is motivation
really trumps everything
else?
I,
I feel, if, when we'll get excited
about a kid is he's really skilled,
has good ideas, knows the game,
isn't losing the ball all the
time, isn't making bad decisions.
and has sort of an extra sort of edge.
But again, there's all types of
kids that we'd be happy to get.
It's like there'd be kids who just,
oh, he'd be great for the team.
And then sometimes a kid will come and
we feel that he has huge potential.
And it, it's, it's all different.
it's hard to say 'cause it's, it's all the
different age groups and each case is so
individual, but we all know within, five
minutes if the kid that tries out will
In five minutes,
Evan, there are thousands.
of youth soccer clubs in this country.
very, very very few collectively play the
way each one of your age groups plays.
why can't more clubs do this?
And given what you just said around player
selection, you, you're not cherry picking
these kids in the most talented or the
biggest or the fastest or whatever it is.
You're truly developing them.
So what's the
special sauce?
Yeah.
It's, it's nothing, nothing too crazy.
You know, I, I feel the same way as you.
When we go abroad and we play in an
international tournament and all these
teams are, have all these quality
players, yet when we're here, we go
to a tournament and we don't see,
you know, could go to a tournament.
And not see any good, you
know, high quality players.
Compared to you guys, I've seen what
you've done in every tournament.
Everyone knows as a Manhattan kickers
team in that tournament, Laive we're
packing up, we're leaving early.
I think what I, what I mentioned
before is that we focus on these
age groups and the, you know, we,
we know what we're doing with these
age, age groups, like when we've gone
to the, Mediterranean International
Cup and we've, when you go there,
all the kids stay in the same hotel.
And we've been with Olympic
Lyon for a couple times and they
have the same guys every year.
Like me.
It's the same guys who, who stay
with this age group and they're
able to bring some, institutional
knowledge to these age groups.
It's not just a young
guy working with them.
And the same club Lyon is one of our
coaches played there, and when we, we
went on a trip to France and we played
at the club and the guys that the co
he's in his thirties now, and the guys
that coached him were still there.
And so I think, that part of us soccer,
i, I is missing, there are guys who've
who stay in the youth game and, are
able to really do, do a good job and,
and understand it, but it's, it's rare.
Most coaches, most clubs
throw young coaches.
At it who don't have the experience
to really get the most outta the kids?
I wanna pivot a little bit to something
Matt and I call the handoff because it's
so unique for your club because you're
developing such high quality players at
a very young age, and maybe you know,
a stat of how many of 'em make it to
MLS, next teams in the area, or there's
so many paths in, in New York City.
Is this something that's also part
of your coach training, is kind of
how to hand off a kid somewhere else?
Is, is this a process that you go
through or, and, and what happens
if a kid doesn't make it to an
established path in, in, in the area?
yeah.
Well, it's, it's individualized.
Again, it's not, I sort of work with
each family to figure out what's
best with them based on the level
of the player and where they live.
is an important factor as well, you know.
It might not be feasible to play for
the best possible team if it's, you
know, an hour and a half commute.
'cause we pull kids from sort of, if you
took Pier 40 as our center all around,
so into Brooklyn, Queens, New Jersey.
So let's say if you have a kid from
New Jersey, he's not gonna go, into
Brooklyn or Queens to play or, so it's,
a lot of it is geo, you know, geography.
And then we have maybe a select group
of kids who the MLS clubs are interested
in and they've already made it clear.
And so we, that, that's simple.
And we also have a relationship with
Met Oval, which, you guys are familiar
with and they sort of have, will
take all of our kids, not necessarily
on their first team, but they all
have a place there to play and even
if a, a kid is, you know, below the
level, they'll find a place for him.
So people don't know ml, they're also
an MLS next, their top team is MLS next.
So that, that you're saying
So a lot of our kids go there,
but then, you know, it's not
convenient for everybody to go there.
So if there's a kid that lives, let's
say he lives in Westchester, I'll
reach out to New York Soccer Club and
say, Hey, there's a, there's a kid
that's graduating from our program
and I think it'll be a good fit.
And all the clubs are always happy to hear
you know, we have a good relationship
with clubs because we're not in, we don't
fight for players or, we, we don't have a,
a bad relationship with any club really.
So it's, it's nice and we don't have
any of that conflict that I hear about
with the older ages of taking players
and we're not really involved in.
how have you seen
the landscape both locally
and nationally change?
So you mentioned Met Oval, I
mean, You know, it was Med Oval.
It was Gotchee.
It was Manhattan Soccer Club.
what if I'm forgetting any of the
big ones aside from N-Y-C-F-C and
Red Bull and now there are probably
double that amount of clubs that are
MLS next clubs in the tri-state area.
Does this double the amount of opportunity
or does this actually saturate quality?
Yeah, it's watered everything down.
I think when they first started
to organize the leagues with the
development academy, when they had
a few clubs, the level was much
higher for those clubs, obviously.
You know, and now I feel that all the
clubs in the MLS NEXT is, the overall play
has watered down because there's, I, I see
it with kids, it's, they don't wanna, if,
if they feel they're gonna start for this
other team, they're gonna go there instead
of being a bench player for another team.
in the past they would've, had to
be a bench player for that team.
And so what have other kids, and it,
it would, it made those teams stronger.
So I think it's the, it's pretty clear
that the MLS next has been watered down.
it's the same kids.
You know, it's, that's the years the
I've been doing this for so long.
So the leagues are always
changing, but it's the same kids.
It's, it's the same
amount of good players.
It's, it's just repositioning the kids.
It's so, it's not gonna create,
just because they create more
teams in the league, it's not
gonna create players of that level.
So,
But, but you do know in the younger
ages, part of the unfortunate things
that probably have changed in the last
few years is almost the, the addiction
to, and we've had a, a couple of guests
here talk about this addiction to
tournaments and this winning mentality.
I, I know how important competition
in winning is to many of, of
my own colleague parents when,
when the kids were growing up.
Yeah, well, winning is
really important to us.
I feel.
I feel it's, it's important I think
for players to be a part of a winning
culture and to, and to expect to win and
to have that mentality when they play.
that's important, but it isn't,
like, it isn't the most important.
Thing.
For us, it's the competitions are sort
of a, a way of developing the players.
They have to learn how to play soccer.
You know, the soccer's a
game, it's a competitive game,
so they have to learn that.
But we're not gonna win at all costs.
We're not trying to, you
know, just, just win games.
It's not, we're not trying to load teams
so that they, they can win and play ugly.
And it's, it's, it's not our
goal to exclusively to do that.
We don't play in that many competitions.
Also, we play in one tournament, pretty
much one tournament in the fall, a
couple Futsol tournaments, And even
those, yeah, we, we try to win, like
our coaches wanna, wanna win, but I,
they also have to play the kids fairly.
They we're not, they have to
play the kids on the bench.
There's things that they have to do
that are gonna make it hard to win.
But, it's, it's a tough thing to manage
Well, and, and a lot of your
teams play at least used
to play up a year as well.
So I would argue that if, if winning was
the most important, and by the way, I
think those teams often won when
they were playing up a year.
But the point is you're not,
the goal isn't to win.
eight nil every match.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And yeah, we'll put our teams in
situations that are difficult and
you know, put the coaches, we'll,
put the players in situations that
aren't always, geared towards winning.
But then there's some, like when, when we
go on the international trips and we're
playing in a tournament that, if you
have to win your group to go on and play
the better teams, then it's sort of, we,
we let everyone know ahead of time that
the coach is trying to win this game.
We wanna go far, play the better
teams and the playing time's gonna
be exclusively what the coach feels
is gonna try to win that game.
So I think we're, we get to be really
competitive there and There was a,
player that came through our club and
he, he, on, on this subject, I feel this
is a, a, a good sort of story to tell.
He won the NCAA
Championships with Clemson.
his name's Colin Johnson.
He just, retired.
He was in the USL if he's ever hears
this, I'm not embarrassing him, but he, he
wrote me an email after they won, he was
at Clemson and won the NCAA championship
about how the kickers impacted his life.
And it taught it, it showed him what
it is to be involved in a winning
culture and how important that was.
And then he's, since then, he's, he's,
that's what he's wanted to do with soccer.
That's what he's enjoyed about it.
And that's what, that's
what's motivated him.
And he talked about how, how special it
was he was on the team that I coached
early on that, that we won tournaments
and we'd go on trips and win things
and how, how that made the enjoyment of
the game that much more so, you know.
It's, it's a hard thing to balance
the winning or, you know, a lot of
it comes down to playing time is what
sort of prevents sort of the team
from really winning, making sure all
the kids, the, the, get to experience
the games, but it's a hard balance.
But winning,
do you handle that in such a, I mean, this
is not a cheap experience to be part of,
yeah
it's in our club, playing time is earned.
I feel that you, there's a no-win
situation in the playing time.
Like if you go down to the coaches who
are doing, it's a no-win situation.
If you decided to say, Hey, everybody's
playing equally, it's not fair to the
kids who are working twice as hard to
play the same as the kids who are maybe
missing practice and not working hard.
It's just not fair.
It's not, they don't,
they're not earning it.
So we feel it needs to be earned.
The kids need to show up in
practice, listen to the coach.
You know, work hard and then
they can earn their playing time.
So,
if a kid's doing all of that, a
player's doing all that, they'll,
they'll play, they'll usually
succeed if they're doing that.
But if a player is not ready to
contribute to the team, who hasn't
been focusing in practice, yeah,
the coach doesn't need to play.
And we try to communicate all of this
upfront so that there are no surprises
and it's sort of expected in our club.
People know what they're
getting into with that.
I mean, what I
Love about this is,
that these are ultimately
life lessons, right?
I mean, winning, winning is actually
really important, but doing it in a way.
That aligns to the
mission is most important.
Right.
And it's the same thing
with earning, playing time.
well, that may be really
difficult for a U nine player to
hear or a U nine parent to hear.
The reality is that,
either that kid is gonna show up to
training and work that much harder to
get the place, or the kid will eventually
maybe fall off or find another club or
or whatever whatever it is.
But I think that these are
well difficult at times.
They're good lessons to learn and
I think that's probably what builds
the community that is kickers well
beyond when they leave as U 12 players
I, I think the, the families who come
to our club want that environment.
They want their, the, their
child to earn what they get.
And I feel it, it, it works out.
But you know, there's always issues with.
of
Course
And, you know, that coach is, it's
hard for a coach to manage it.
You know, I, I don't know how much
coaching experience you guys have, but the
sideline coaching.
Incredible amount of experience.
What do you mean
the time in the game flow differently as a
coach, it's, it's, it's a time, you know,
you have to have a watch, you have to be
looking because time is, doesn't play the
by the same rules when you're coaching.
So it's hard, it's a hard thing
to manage the playing time.
And it usually takes with our
club two coaches on the sideline
to make sure that we we're fair.
two coaches on the, so how
many coaches are in a training
session per, per kid, let's say?
Because you have, how, how many
kids do you have in a
we're pretty, we, we, our typical
training, we'll have at least
two coaches with the team,
and what's the size of a team?
per age group.
You said one
10, 12 kids.
Yep.
Well remember
Laron, they're playing
uh, they get up the,
the most is nine v nine,
what I was saying.
We have small teams.
Usually it's, we, a lot of times we
have more than two coaches out there.
So our, well, well, our co
our practices go back to back.
So the coaches from the first training
stay for the second, and the coaches for
the second oftentimes come to the first.
We have coaches sometimes that just come
for a day, a week, just to help out.
My, my feeling is that director is
that, yeah, we, I wanna, I wanna
have a lot of coaches around.
I want everybody to feel supported
and having a good time with it.
If the coaches are motivated and enjoying
it, then they're gonna do a good job
if I don't want them to feel isolated.
so I put a lot of effort into
making sure that we, we have a good,
you know, player to coach ratio.
In the, in the interview again with
the, with the Dutch Academy coach.
from starting at U 12, they
have five coaches per per team.
So obviously, I guess you're onto
the key to success, which allowed
you to create, such incredible
talents, which we're gonna pivot to.
we couldn't do this episode
without talking about your,
your number one, export into the
professional world, Timothy Chalamet.
And so I'd like to focus
on that a little bit.
And lo
Liron has seen Marty
Supreme,
seven
abso Yeah, absolutely.
Softie Brothers.
yeah, but all right, we won't talk
about him, but, but, but we can talk a
little bit about what do you see when
you have a 9-year-old Johnny Shore
on your team, or, uh, Julian Hall.
Like, you gotta see something, right?
There's
gotta be something that's differentiates.
Jonathan, we saw it when he
was, you know, four years old.
Let's talk, tell us.
Yeah.
He, from the first practice he
came to, he just had a different
focus, different understanding.
it was, yeah.
It was something else.
He, he, he was the most advanced youth
player that I, that I've ever seen.
did he, ha, did he have moments where
That slowed down and others
were catching him, or was it,
was his path fairly linear or,
You know, it changed once he left us
at N-Y-C-F-C things, you know, I, I
didn't monitor as closely, but when he
was with us, he was so far, advanced,
he was, could play three years up.
He, Tommy played four
Three years up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that's really the window.
no problem, doing that.
And yeah, he, he, he was great.
And he also comes from a, a, a really
supportive family who could have gone
the other way with a player that they
could have, been arrogant and wanting
to take him everywhere to play.
And they just trusted our, our system.
And his dad was even volunteer,
was on, out of the board of our
club, but was really involved.
And I, it just, it every,
everything sort of went.
They, they, they handled having
a player like that really well.
So it was, it was a great, it
was a great experience having
him in the club in general.
Just, you know, setting the
tone for the rest of the club,
both the player and the parents.
The, we had a, a may, maybe you know
him, uh, he was the previous, uh,
director for N-Y-C-F-C Youth Academy.
Uh, Morton Gunn.
And he said
he, he, he coined the word, rockets.
And he said, when you see that rocket,
you kinda, you know, that's the rocket.
And is, is this what it felt like
to have someone like Julian or
uh, Johnny on, on your teams?
Yeah, it's exciting.
You don't, you wanna do everything you
can for them, you know, you know that
it's, there's real potential there.
Like another example with Jonathan, we
were, took a U 12 team to Spain and we
asked him and his dad if he could come
with the team just to, he wasn't at that
point where, where he was could play
with that group, but just to experience
it, just to be the, come on the terms,
sit on the bench with the guys, do the
trainings, just, just soak in being
in, in Barcelona and the environment
so, you know, we're trying to do
everything we can to make sure that his
experience goes well and that he can
sort of soak in as much as possible.
W wouldn't it be amazing if the US had
a, compensation system where, a, a small
development club could benefit from this?
I don't.
Wait, what?
Wait, should I have not said that?
I don't know.
But with players you don't always,
obviously it, I, I feel it's pretty
obvious if a kid has potential, but
there's a lot of other factors that go
into it and how their parents approach
it, and that could take them off the path.
But,
explain that.
like,
in what, what, what, like, in what?
In what sense?
like if, if they're, if, if they're not
sort of dedicated in the right way, if
they're focused on the wrong things,
if they're, they wanna post, Instagram
videos of a kid dribbling through cones
or if they wanna focus on the team,
that, that, that, that's a big one.
Now I feel that is, can.
Throw kids off what the sport is, so,
'cause soccer's a team sport and
if you're a really good player, you
still need to focus on the team.
That's where you learn everything.
It's all about playing for the team.
So I feel that is, is gets a lot of
good players off track, is that it
becomes about them and they, they
lose focus of what the sport is about.
And you've, you've seen that firsthand
with, talent in, in your club.
Yes, yes, yes.
Mm-hmm.
Or just like a parent who feels like,
okay, that my kid's exceptional,
it's because of me and I'm
gonna dictate what he should do.
Even though that parent might've
never played soccer, this might be
their first time through the youth
system, they're still don't trust
what, what the coaches are saying.
And I see things go off
in that direction as well.
Whereas like a player like Jonathan
or like Julian's another one, his
parents or The Luca Koleosho, who's
one of our players to come through.
They just, they, they came to us because
they wanted help with a kid who's
showing a lot of promise in soccer.
And we helped them.
It's not, I don't want it, it's
not us that made the player,
we just didn't, mess it up.
We just, do the right thing with them
and guide them in the right directions,
give them the right experience, the
right coaching so that they can, you
know, reach close to their potential.
So even for Luca, you saw very early on
yeah, Luke Luca was, yeah, rocket
would be a good way to describe him.
'cause he was fast.
Yeah.
He,
he's playing in, in for Paris
FC in the French League one.
Yeah, he's, he's moved
around a little bit.
he hasn't really settled in,
but he was a ex amazing player.
He was just watching him run.
You know, I, I remember being at
Fields where there'd be a baseball
game next to us on a field, and
they'd be watching him, like pointing
at him to 'cause how fast he was.
You know, it just, it was so obvious to
anybody how, how, how fast he was and
how aggressive and intense so he was.
It was pretty obvious with him
Just a, just a question on the,
the
the US
system and then comparing
it to, to Europe.
So I would imagine
that parents continue to consult with
you even as their kids move on because
of the experience they had at Kickers.
And
even though,
you don't have
as strong of opinions on the
older age groups, 'cause you're
not living that every day,
What are those conversations?
like with some of the elite players
who are in the US still at maybe at
16, 17 years old, playing for at MLS.
Either
Academies
or they've moved onto the
first team that think about or
have thought about, or even
if it's younger, even if it's at 14, if
they have the opportunity to go overseas,
what do the conversations look like?
And are people really
hell bent on trying to get
over there if they can?
yeah, a lot.
I still keep in touch
with a lot of families.
They like to use me as a resource to get
sort of unbiased, you know, information
by the way, which is what I'm
gonna do from this point on.
I just wanna establish that
so you guys can laugh all you
want, but, you'll, you'll see
they know that I'm, I have the
same goal as them, is the best
interest of the, the player.
So they'll ask me, but every,
every situation's different.
I think there's a lot of frustration
with the, the players that are here, that
that is, is what, even at the, if they're
doing really well at the top of the
heap, I feel there's a lot of frustration
with this, with the system in the us.
is
that's from a
a soccer perspective,
development perspective, that's
from, the
lack of
competition.
Yeah, I think all of
inability to to call their own shots
and move on where they wanna move on.
or all of the above.
the structure here is difficult.
It's, it's a difficult, it's not
structured that well to have, from my
vantage point, again, I'm not in that
world enough, but there's it, it doesn't
seem like there's, when, you know, we go
abroad and we see other countries, they
have more higher level opportunities
for kids to play it like the 16 to 18
level, where here it seems like there's
like a missing, a couple missing links
into where they could be playing.
know, like a example with Luca, one
time we were over in Spain when he was
playing in the U 19 Copa del Re final
when he was 17 and it was televised
in Spain and we watched it, and I was
thinking the same thing for a 17-year-old.
It doesn't exist in the US to
have a high level game like that.
As a 17-year-old, they're playing
real Madrid in the finals, at a
stadium and that sort of level.
Maybe, at that point realizing that
it's, it's just if you're a really
high performing 17-year-old, maybe
they push 'em into the MLS next.
There's really no
Next pro.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it, it's, I feel that is, that is
like a gap in the US system that that
seems to, you know, limit the players.
But, but even for the,
even for the stars, right?
Like if you think about like a, you could
talk about Julian or, or, or Jonathan
Shore, like in inside our circuit.
Obviously these are rockets
amazing stories, but in a way.
It's not, it doesn't kinda perforate
outside of a very close circle of, of
people who know who those kids are.
It's not like the MLS or whoever
is behind all this is, is, has made
the extra effort to turn 'em into
household names or, or big stars maybe.
Just, just that, that's where the gap is.
So as you're, if my son grows up 12,
13, yeah, he knows a little bit about
them, but it's not like he's flooded
with these pictures of celebrities and
of, or local soccer celebrities and, and
kind of that, that world that, I mean, it
I guess 'cause they're not,
'cause they're not because
they're one is, they're in the US.
None of, no soccer player is really
a, a star and Texas that they
haven't really made it yet, even
though they're, they're sort of
at the top of their age group.
They haven't, they haven't,
they haven't made it yet.
And globally, there's
lots of kids like them.
You know, if you take Julian and
Jonathan who are, you know, the
examples we're using Red Bull and NY
CFC 'cause they're kids who I know
there's, if you went to every club
has kids like them in, in Europe, all
the top clubs have players like them
who are playing on their first team.
And so they still have a long way to go.
And I think that's, that's, that's what
the difficult part is here is, is how
to, how to get them to the next step.
I think so too.
I mean, we had Luis Robles on, one of our
first interviews and we talked about that.
But even
How do you give
how do you give these kids at at
a 17 a chance on the first team
and then ultimately
promote them because you want kids who
are six or seven to not only be focused
on the stars who are playing in Europe.
But they're close to them?
Right?
Like we all had it with sports
when we were growing up.
And, well, you, you and I did Evan with
probably.
with other sports in this country.
Liron was growing up in
Israel, so it was different.
But I didn't have a soccer player
to look up to in this country
my entire childhood.
Right.
And
That made a huge
impact and where I spent a
lot of my time playing sports.
Yeah, that, well, that benefits the kids
in our club because you know, most of
the people don't know Jonathan Shore,
but all the kids in our club know him,
Yep.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
No, it's
And he comes to the trainings and he,
you know, he meets them and they, they
go to his games and maybe they'll,
he'll say hi to them afterwards.
So we have that, a mini sort
of environment like that.
You know, Julian's brother is in our
club, so he is, he's around as well.
And Luca, when we used to go to
Spain, he lived there with, you
know, come to all the games.
And so we still have that environment,
you know, going back to, you know,
Alex Mule, who was like one of
the first professionals out of our
club, or Matt Meka, they come back
and, you know, Jonathan got to meet
them and it was exciting from them.
So we, we have a, a bit of
that which does help the kids.
It, it motivates them a lot.
I think that's a special
part of, of our club.
Yeah,
for sure.
Can I ask just a question
Off off topic, slightly
from where we are now, but from a
coaching perspective, when I've, when I've
watched your play, your teams
play before, it seems, very
systematic as far as how they play,
right?
how you build, where the ball moves,
who's checking into
space, who receives it,
how they turn, where the ball goes.
And I'm not saying they're not making,
individual decisions, they obviously are.
what's the line between really well
coached and, and players who are
developing versus over coached players
where they're not necessarily able
to make those decisions on their own
if they're in a different system?
yeah, well our system changes
with each team, depending
on the ability of the team.
So we don't have, we have a, a basic
style of play and a formation that we
use, but we're not that strict about it.
'cause the team has to be able to do it.
you know, but I, I don't know.
I, I hear people say the over
coaching thing and I don't
know if I feel that's the case.
I, you know, we've played against
IX Barcelona and, they play really
structured, at these young ages.
It's, it's, it's not just taking
turns, dribbling the ball.
So the, the people who say,
oh, the kids should just go
and make mistakes and dribble.
I don't see where that works.
Maybe it's worked somewhere.
Every culture has their own way of doing
it, but I don't think it works for us.
And, and I, and I think, you know, Ajax
and Barcelona have pretty good results.
and you watch their teams play.
They're not just taking
turns, dribbling the ball.
It's very structured.
But again, the level to do it is based
on the level of the players also.
And, we of course love players
that dribble, but they have to
know when to do it and they've
gotta earn the right to do it.
so it's not like we're saying
we're just like a two touch team.
We don't, we don't play that way.
We, we do have a way of playing,
of building the ball out of the
back and of where, what areas
we're creating the mismatches.
And we, we have a style both in fus
all and outdoor, like a, a framework.
But the coaches, if their
team fits it, it's helpful for
them to do it 'cause it works.
But if the team doesn't exactly
fit, then they, we can adapt it.
back to coaches.
'cause uh, obviously you have such high
level coaches, which are, are, are known.
In, in the whole area.
But, so as those kids kind of grow
outta your system and they go win
U 17 championships and move around,
these coaches stay at, you know,
all the way to U 12 and that's it.
I mean, how do you
maintain that structure?
How do you, is there not a, is it
not an enticing for these coaches
to say, well, I want to go move
and win a U 17 championship, or.
some do, some do, you know, but the,
like, the core of the coaches we have
now are guys who played in the club, who
I've known since they were little kids.
They love the environment and,
you know, they're here for now.
This, this is what they wanna do.
maybe one day they'll go do
something else, or, but they, they
en, en enjoy this, these ages.
And just, it's, it's the same with me.
It's, you know, I've had
different, early on coaching.
Worked with older kids.
You know, we had a men's team for
a little bit of our coaches that I
coach in Tsal in the TST tournament.
But the youth level is,
is a lot of fun for me.
I think a high level U 12
game is, is an exciting game.
I feel when it, when it stretches out
on the 11 aside, the kids get older.
For me, it's not as fun.
When you have a good youth team,
the kids are going a hundred
percent, it's full effort.
I think that's what sucks the parents
into it and gets them so emotional is
'cause the kids are trying so hard.
They're giving it everything out
there and it's, it's fun to watch.
It's fun to be a part of it.
I it's, it's enjoyable these age groups.
So I think the coaches have fun with it.
it's hard for us to
find the right coaches.
It is, it is hard.
We have a lot of guys who come that,
that don't, don't get our culture,
and it wouldn't, it wouldn't work out.
so yeah, they, they have to align with
how the club, the club's culture and for
the guys who've been in it, it's so easy.
It's like so much is unsaid.
They just know this stuff.
But it's definitely harder for
coaches who come from another club.
It's, it's, it's, there's a lot of
differences that we have that make
it a little bit challenging for them.
Whereas a coach who maybe just finished
playing and is easier 'cause they don't
have those habits from a previous club.
But the, it, it's the most easiest
for guys who've, who've played for us.
Evan,
I, I may know the answer
to this
just listening to you talk.
about how controlling the quality
is so important and yet You
you find it.
It can even be difficult with a, with
a smallish club like Manhattan kickers.
Have you thought.
about doing Manhattan kickers
in Brooklyn, in Queens, in
New Jersey, whatever it may be,
Same U seven to U 12,
develop the coaches.
within the kickers program in Manhattan
and then place them, or is that
of no interest to you whatsoever?
that, that idea has been
brought to me many times
Yeah, I figured.
in different, forms.
But I don't know, I, it's hard
enough to do what, what we do and
you know it from the outside to you.
'cause we have consistently good teams.
It might look like, oh, these
guys have it just running.
But like, we don't feel that way.
We feel like our kids
aren't doing that well.
They could be doing a lot better.
It could go to pieces
if we don't work hard.
So we don't see it as like a, a, just an
assume that our teams are gonna be good.
It, it's, it's not how we see it at all.
Like if we, if if we, at our coaches
meeting you, if we heard us talking about.
The things we need to improve on.
You would think the teams, you know,
we're not, you wouldn't think the
teams are very good because we, we
don't focus on the positives that much
No, but that's
The standard.
That's how you create a
standard of excellence.
yeah, they're young kids.
They all are not that good, you know?
But they all need a ton of work, so.
Al also spoken like a true New Yorker,
who's, I know you're from Cleveland
though, but speaking of New York, for
those who are listening that are not from
here, obviously the, the crippling costs
of raising kids in New York, existing
here, and I can't even imagine what it'd
be like to run a youth club, Manhattan
kickers is, I would say it's not a
cheap club how do you structure that?
'cause we, Matt and I talk about funnel.
'cause you're a non-for-profit, right?
Yeah.
So is it on scale?
Do you, do you allow, scholarships?
How, how, how does the structure work?
Yeah.
Well, we have, we're in a kind of a good
situation because being in Manhattan,
we have a lot of parents who are
well off and we, we have fundraisers
and we, we, we have our dues, which.
Which don't even cover
our, all of our expenses.
And so we have fundraisers and
we, we have scholarship players.
It's the way we look at it.
If a player tries out and the coach
wants him on the team, whether he is the
best player or number 10, we take him.
And then if he, if the family
can't pay the dues, then we
figure out the scholarship.
So we have, sometimes it doesn't matter
the level within, like he has to make
the team, but once he is on the team,
then we, we'll figure the fight.
We've never turned away
a player for, for money.
No kid has ever not
played with us for funds.
But, it's easier for us
because we can do fundraising.
You know, we, we, even on our
international trips, we just
went to Brazil and three kids
went, didn't pay anything.
You know, had a free, free trip and we,
we, we have probably 20% of our club
doesn't, doesn't, is on scholarship.
And that just happens to be,
each team is different, but
I mean, what, it's extraordinary.
But, maybe what many don't realize
is that, in your fundraisers,
many of the, much of the support
you get are already from parents.
And correct me if I'm wrong, parents
that are not in the club anymore.
Right.
Parents of ki.
some of it, some of it, yeah.
So, you know, we'll have a fundraiser
event and we, former players, I mean,
parents come and I think also we, we,
I feel commit to the kids and so I
feel parents are more likely to support
the program when they feel we've,
we're committing to the kids where
it's not year by year, like, oh, he's
gotta try out from U United to U 10.
We'll see if he's gonna make it.
we commit to the kids, maybe one kid,
every one or two kids every year at
the end of the season, we have to tell
them, listen, this is not good for them.
It's not the right fit.
it's probably best for them to,
to find a different club 'cause we
feel like we're not the right club.
So that's very rare.
But usually the kids stay throughout
and I think that helps with the
support of the club as well.
So,
Can you walk that, walk
that back a little bit?
That's actually something
I, I didn't realize.
I don't know Matt, if you knew that or
not, but, so if, if you have one team
per age group and very few drop, and you
kind of, they go through the program.
So as the, as the, as the kids
get older, it's harder and harder
to get into Manhattan kickers.
Well, it depends on the team.
There might, if a team
is really good, yeah.
We have some teams that are strong,
that are really hard to make.
We're turning away good players, but
we have some teams that aren't as
good and it, it would be easier to
make, it just depends on the team.
The age group, it's our, our
teams are consistently, good.
They're at the top level of, the area
they can play with whatever teams.
But within our club we have a lot, a
big variance in, in the level of teams.
We have some teams that are, are
way outperforming other teams.
So it, it just depends on the kids
that have come and, but yeah, it is,
it does get generally more difficult.
few
you make micro adjustments or
is it just for a kid to come
in to replace another kid?
It's gotta be a, a major
difference between them.
He wouldn't replace another kid though.
We wouldn't pull a kid out.
Wow.
we don't, it is really
rare to, to, to cut.
To cut kids.
it's really rare we'll take, and
again, all of our players aren't
of a high quality MLS club caliber.
We have a lot of players who probably
wouldn't make, the next team.
but we've committed to them and, we wanna
get the most out of them and we wanna
give them a good experience as well.
we had on, a couple of sports
psychologists, a few weeks
ago, had written a book
called Mentality Wins, and we
talked about,
the pressure on kids.
Being so intense, especially when
you're playing in, in some of these
large clubs where they have two or
three teams per age group, kids are
moving, kids are getting cut each year,
right?
They move, move start on the first team.
they move to The second team they,
move to the third team.
They may be out completely or
not because their money is their
money and the club needs it.
We
just talked about.
the strain on kids at a young age
and how that impacts development
and then of course on the families
and While your kids are
obviously pressing and working
really really hard, to develop,
I think that feeling, that
certainty may be of knowing that
they're not having to worry about
that.
They can just focus on
developing.
It's
probably,
something that's really
special for them too.
Yeah.
It's not something.
That I don't think any of
the kids are scared of.
They're more scared of
like, am I gonna play alike?
I'm not gonna get as much playing.
That's pressure for
sure on them, you know?
And I, it gets strong and it's, it's
a thing that, is normal in sports too,
but I don't think any kid's worried
about not making the team next year.
And when we do have a kid who we have
to tell the parents they should find
a different place, it's a process.
It's like, maybe midway through the season
we're like, listen, things are not, we
don't think this is a good place for him.
We don't think we're getting to him.
he probably should be at a place
where there's less pressure,
but we'll see how things go.
But we'll talk maybe with a month left of
the season if it's worth trying out for
other, so it's like a, a step by step.
And it's, the kid doesn't
really know about it as much.
It's more of a communication
with the parent.
And then we say it's probably worth
trying out for another team again.
But this is like maybe two kids
each year out of, you know, 70.
That happens too.
Evan,
what's,
there seems to be a trend where there's
an anti anti club movement in some
places around youth soccer, where.
There's a bunch of, there's a
few people out there that are,
more famous than others.
We don't have to mention them by name,
who, who really believe that clubs are
doing a disservice to kids in development.
And that's a broad
stroke comment.
Right.
That doesn't mean all
clubs, and I'm sure you see
them,
I'm sure you've heard of them and these
kids are doing a
ton of work with cones.
a lot of isolated type of work.
I'm sure they do team
Stuff, but not
necessarily within a team they're in.
What's
the problem with
that?
Or what do you
Yeah.
I,
or, or are there some advantages to it?
E two.
I feel that's taken on a life of
its own, these types of training and
it's, it's, it's ultimately, it's,
it ha it hasn't had a good impact.
I feel that.
Talking about like guys who are
doing individual code training,
posting it on Instagram businesses
about, focusing on that part of it.
Yeah, I, I, again, like I was saying
before, I feel soccer's a team game
and you have to be really motivated.
You have to motivate
yourself within your team.
And having guys coaching like that, I
don't think the influence is, is that
big or that helpful, what they do.
And I, I just see so much of it
gone, like a kid will, will see,
or one of the coaches will see on
Instagram that a coach is working
with him doing step overs and the kid
can't even pass with his weak foot.
And they're, they're just stuff like that
at all different levels is, is happening.
And I feel that parents
get sucked into it.
They look at it almost like, if
it's like math or something and
he can't do his math, so you
get a tutor and they'll fix it.
But, and then, but the tutor.
Sometimes that now I've talked to
the guys who do, there's guys who
are considered top trainers who've
never even seen the kid in a game.
there's a, a disconnect from
what's really happening.
And I think kids now are training
harder than they've ever trained
and more than they've ever trained.
And I don't think there are any better
than the kids were who never did this.
it's, a team game.
It's a, you have to be able to like,
sacrifice and fight for the team.
And those kids who have that
mentality are the kids who
succeed and who focus on the team.
If you're playing for four different
teams and you have a trainer who's
telling you one thing, I think
the core of the game gets lost.
And those aren't the kids who are
gonna, you know, take a ball to the
face in the wall and on the cold
weather slide into block a shot.
And those traits, which are so important
to soccer, that that commitment is, is
not, it's, that's not the focus when
you're doing, you know, cone dribbling.
Do you explain that to parents, or is
I try, I, because it's tough because
it's like with you, soccer, I feel
in general a lot, there's always
like a kernel of truth to things
and then it's taken the wrong way.
Like there are, it's a, it, it is a good
thing if let's say you can't kick it
with your weak foot to go work on that.
And if the parent doesn't feel comfortable
kicking with a weak foot with their
kid to have somebody do it, it's that
there's positives to fix certain issues
of your game that could help you over.
So it's not all bad, but I what it's,
it's taken on its own sort of purpose.
And there are kids now who train more
with a coach and they do with a team.
And I feel that that part of it, it,
it's lost its purpose of just fixing,
something to help them in the games and
it's become their, it's its own thing.
Yeah, I feel like there's definitely
diminishing returns on that and,
and maybe as soccer matures here,
this will, this, this phenomena
might, might slowly die out.
So
There's a coach in Brazil who, who
I've worked with, and one year we,
some he comes in town every few
years to work with us in futsal.
And one of the coaches mentioned a
skills practice to him, and he didn't
even know what we meant by that.
this is a.
Brazilian, yeah.
Yeah.
you had to, we had to explain it to him.
This was your, so maybe things
have changed there, but he Yeah,
he was like, just to work on these.
Yeah.
It, it just didn't, just wasn't
part of what they do there.
To have to this just focus on,
you know, what coach teaching
a, a skill to a kid like that.
And I don't think that's how
creative players are, are made.
If a kid needs a, let's say,
wanted to do extra work, would
you and Manhattan kickers direct
him to what that kid needs to do?
Would
you give him Yeah.
That's, that's the idea.
That would be the idea.
So we have a coach who does that, and he
knows the kids, he knows what we need.
He does a, a sort of a well-rounded
system, and he has, and that's great.
It, it compliments what we're doing.
And there yeah, there's certain
coaches who, and it helps for the kids'
confidence, like I'm saying, there are
benefits to it, but if it just becomes
a focus of what the player does, it's
missing the point of, it's a team sport.
You need to be motivated within the team.
So yeah, there's definitely
coaches and benefits to that.
Evan, a question.
when you
Go overseas are, are people
across Europe or in Brazil
when you're just in Brazil,
are they still surprised
these are a bunch of American
kids playing at the quality
and the level they're playing?
Or are we done, are, are we through
the, them being surprised at this point?
Well, when we have a good team
and we do well, they're surpr,
they're, they're sort of surprised.
Yeah.
They don't expect much.
But sometimes we, we can have a
team that's good here and go abroad
and, we're not, we're nothing
compared to these other teams.
We're still, the US soccer is still pretty
far behind the, the other major countries.
Yeah.
Matt, I promised Evan we're
gonna keep him for an hour.
Okay.
And it's been an hour and 10 minutes.
He's not gonna come back for season
three if, we continue like this.
But I, I will, I will say,
um, af after this, uh.
Interview, I am, uh, probably
gonna get a lot of calls.
Uh, people would assume that Evan and I
are very good friends and they're gonna
say, you know, maybe you can have this
kid, maybe you can give Evan a call.
So let's say, a kid, a U 9 kid, a
parent wants to try out for kickers,
what would you say is the thing that a
parent should say, you know what, maybe
you are the right kid for, for kickers.
He would just have to come and see, if
they're, if they, if they're up for their
schedule, they can get to their fields.
They'd have to just come and try
out and see, and see how they do.
If the family's committed to soccer,
if the kid loves playing, if he's the
kind of kid, the typical thing that I
get in the emails is, oh, he can't, he's
kicking the ball all around our apartment.
We can't stop him with the ball.
Yeah.
It's, kind of kid that
would fit into our program.
Evan, this was, this was incredible.
we, we really appreciate your time and,
you seeing anytime means, we'll, it will
be anytime, um, because, uh, it's still,
there's still a lot to explore and I, you
know, I'll just tell you, I know you don't
see it from the outside 'cause you're
not with the older kids, but there's
always the kids from Manhattan, kickers
from all the academy world I've seen,
and the kids who play, everyone always
knows that this is a Manhattan kicker
Yeah.
Yeah.
It never goes away.
It's this, right?
It's this thing like, oh, look at that.
Oh, Jackson, wait a minute.
He's got Manhattan kickers.
Okay.
Oh, Manhattan kickers.
Yeah.
So,
Nice.
That's, that's good to hear.
yeah.
You're, you're definitely doing it.
I like Matt's idea, but
Manhattan kickers, Cleveland
knew I was not the first one to bring
this up, so, Evan, thanks
again for joining us.
Right.
of course.
I enjoyed it.
Wow.
This is the sound of me being
crushed that my son has never gotten to experience
this club.
Yeah, I feel the same way.
And if you're trying to take something practical from this episode, here's the headline.
Development isn't about volume.
It's about the environment.
It's about the coaches and it's about the methodology.
Yeah, I mean, Evans said in a way that defines the club,
and I'm going to try to quote it.
We're a small club, so it's easier for us to hold standards.
We have one team in each group, and we don't carry a big roster.
Yeah, and the standards shows up in the pathway, too.
It's a quote from Evan.
A lot of our kids
are the top, maybe quarter, depending on the group, who
move on to the MLS clubs, and we've supported that over the
years and have had great success.
And then there's that line that should make every parent sit back for
a second, including the two of us.
Kids are now training harder than they've ever trained and
more than they've ever trained.
And I don't think that they're any better than the kids who trained before them.
Yeah, this is the tension.
If the structure isn't right, the coaching isn't right,
more training doesn't fix that.
Yeah, and I don't want to make this sound like a real estate podcast where we're
telling people to move to Manhattan because that's not realistic.
But the point really is to just start asking better questions about
your kids' environment and demanding more.
Well, I heard we were going to have free grocery stores, though.
Oh, my God, there is one in the West Village opening up here.
I did.. did hear about that.
Roster size, coach-to-player ratio,
standards, pathway.
It all matters.
Yeah..
And as usual, if this episode helps you see youth soccer more
clearly, subscribe, share it with another soccer parent, or a coach that you trust
Let us know what you're seeing in your own club.
This is what makes us tick.
Yes, is chasing the game.
You soccer in America.
See you later, Liron