090 | BCB2024 | Winning with Distributors: From Your Home Market to Export | Park Street University | Michael Vachon, Soren Hansen, Emily Pennington, Chris Maffeo

Show Notes

Episode Deep-Dive Analysis Available at maffeodrinks.com 

This Episode of the Maffeo Drinks Podcast features a roundtable discussion from BCB Bar Convent Berlin 2024 hosted by Park Street University.

Emily Pennington moderates a discussion on distribution strategies in the European market.

Joined by guests Soren Hansen (Bemakers), Michael Vachon (Maverick Drinks), and Chris Maffeo (MAFFEO DRINKS), the conversation centers around the role of distributors in brand building and entry strategies for EU markets.

Key topics include identifying the right distributors, pricing challenges, maximizing event activations, and focusing on sell-through rates. Listeners will gain invaluable insights into building a successful beverage brand in Europe, with practical advice on market research, brand involvement, and leveraging different sales channels.

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview

00:32 Welcome to Park Street University Stage

01:13 Panelist Introductions

02:03 Understanding Distribution Strategies

04:31 Differences Between Importers, Distributors, and Brokers

08:19 Challenges in Pricing Across Markets

12:23 Market Observations and Trends

19:35 Finding the Right Distributor

22:24 Understanding Market Logistics

23:47 Building Brand Presence

24:42 Navigating Economic Challenges

26:35 Effective Market Entry Strategies

29:45 Timeline for Market Penetration

32:00 Leveraging Digital and Omni-Channel Strategies

35:40 Event Activation Best Practices

42:36 Direct-to-Consumer Models

43:49 Key Takeaways for Distribution Relationships

46:04 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Interested in Group Subscriptions, Keynote Presentations or Advisory? You can get in touch at [e-mail] or find out more at maffeodrinks.com 

Creators and Guests

Host

Chris Maffeo

Drinks Leadership Advisor | Bridging Bottom-Up Reality & Top-Down Expectations

What is MAFFEO DRINKS?

The MAFFEO DRINKS Podcast is a leading drinks industry podcast delivering frontline insights for drinks leadership.

For founders, directors, distributor MDs, and hospitality leaders navigating the tension between bottom-up reality and top-down expectations.

20+ years building brands across 30+ markets. Each episode features drinks builders: founders, distributors, commercial directors, sharing how the drinks industry actually works. Not the conference version. Honest conversations.

Insights come from sitting at the bar.

Beyond episodes: advisory for leadership teams, subscription with episode deep dives and principles to navigate your own reality.

Beer, wine, spirits, Low and non-alcoholic.

Bottom-up Insights & Episode Deep Dives at https://maffeodrinks.com

Hey drinks builder, this is
Chris Mafeo, and you're

listening to the Mafeo Drinks
Podcast.

Today.
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Check it out at
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Now let's get into today's
conversation.

OK, let's get the show on the
road.

Hey everyone, welcome to the
Park Street University stage.

I'm Emily Pennington.
I'm going to be your moderator

today for this session on
distribution strategies in the

EU market.
Today we're going to talk about

the role of distributors in
brand building with a focus on

the with a focus on Europe.
If you're considering entering a

new market, distributors provide
valuable local market expertise.

They establish relationships
with retailers, bars and

restaurants.
They understand the competitive

landscape of the individual
European countries.

But they can also come with a
host of challenges if you aren't

matched with the right one.
So today we're going to explore

the key considerations for
brands as they navigate the

complexities of the European
market.

Here with me today are Soren
Hansen, the sales director at EU

based multi country distributor
B Makers.

Next to him is Michael Vashon,
the Co founder of UK based

Maverick drinks distributor.
And then last we have Chris

Mafio, industry veteran, podcast
host and brand building

consultant based in Prague.
So you know what guys?

Before we get started, I want to
take a little poll of the

audience here.
Who is based in the EU?

Raise your hand.
OK, who's based in the UK?

All right, we got a couple.
Is anybody based in the US?

All right, forget about them.
OK, so let's give the audience a

little perspective here on your
respective business models and

your role beyond my very simple
description.

Soren, if you would go first.
Yeah, sure.

Nice to meet you guys.
So my name is Sharon.

I work with B Makers and we are
essentially a direct

distribution partner in the EU.
We make it possible for brands

to sell directly to bars, bottle
stores, restaurants, consumers

in eight different EU markets so
they can build their brand from

the bottom up, which is you
stole one.

Of yours, yeah.
Thank you so much, Michael.

Yeah.
So Michael Vashon, I'm one of

the founders of Maverick Drinks,
Maverick Drinks in the UK, We

are a distributor, but we also
have a wholesale business

selling to the trade.
We also have been a retail

business selling to consumers.
So we are actually pretty much a

full ecosystem between.
We also have our own brands, so

brand building, distribution,
wholesale and retail.

And yeah, our portfolio is about
half brands we own and half

brands we distribute from around
the world.

All right, Chris, you're up.
Hi, I'm Chris.

I don't have a distributor per
SE.

I I had drinks builder as I like
to call all of us that wherever

we work in finance, marketing,
sales, brand owners, brand

management and so on to build
their brands from the bottom up

and and starting specifically
from the on trade and setting

the right foundation.
And I'm a big fan of looking at

the industry as an ecosystem
because it's ultimately we all

want to drive growth, whether we
are importer, wholesaler,

distributors, brand owners and
so on.

So this is a very important way
of understanding that the drinks

is an ecosystem and we have to
work together to build together

the brands.
Yeah.

Sure.
Perfect.

Soren and Michael, am I
understanding correctly both of

your businesses are B2B and D2C,
right?

So business, business and direct
to consumer, is that right for

you?
Soren too?

Yeah, yeah.
So the brands we work with, they

have the possibility to sell
direct to consumer, but they

also have the possibility to
sell direct to bottle stores and

restaurants and also the
monopoly market.

So yes, you're correct.
OK, great.

Now some definitions, mostly for
the American group.

Michael, I'm going to hit on you
at this one.

Can you talk about the
difference between importers,

distributors and brokers?
Like how are those different

functions in the EU?
Yeah.

So, well, at least I'll start
from the UK perspective.

We are here, here's the
glossary.

So importer, we're literally
doing the logistics we are

picking up from your door.
We are bringing into the UK

customs clearance everything
into physically in our hands,

bottles in our hands.
That is the function of the

importer.
And we, we do that too.

We are also the distributor
insofar as we are going out and

we are talking to retailers, to
bars, to everybody from

Independence e-commerce, Amazon,
all that to national grocers and

retailers.
So full stack of types of

retailers and we sell to
wholesalers who sell to bars.

They are, they are the, the
wheels, the trucks who are going

out there and delivering your
products to the bars probably on

some weekly cadence.
We do a, we do increasingly more

of that ourselves, but we also
have 60 partners who we sell to

who are, they don't have brands
of their own.

They have every brand, they've
got thousands of products.

But their responsibility as a
wholesaler is to deliver to the

bar, deliver to the on trade.
So they are a core part of our

our world in the UK.
But really they are a single

function wholesaler sells to on
trade whereby we build those

brands in the on trade.
We are knocking on those bar

doors, building the demand and
working very closely with the

brands themselves to grow those
brands in the UK.

In Europe, we do have brokers
who are probably one step above

that, which are they are looking
to find distributors in

different markets for your
brands.

They often have a portfolio
brands.

I was just talking to 1 charter
brands downstairs, but they are

not really responsible for brand
building.

They're really responsible for
finding your route to market and

then passing over to those
distributors.

OK.
All right.

I think that's clear.
Thank you.

I.
Think one thing, Emily, that I

would add to build on what she
was saying, Michael, is that I

like to frame it as in Portugal
horizontal so they take care of

the full nation in whether it's
UK or or any European market.

So it could be Germany, France
or whatever.

And then wholesalers go
vertical.

I like to call it because they
deep dive into the city because

a lot of wholesalers, if it's
generic, it could serve many

regions in that country.
But usually they do London or

they do East London.
They're very narrow focus.

And to look at it from their
perspective, I always call it

like they've they've got no
other city to go to.

So they need to take care of
their bars more than their

brands because they can change a
brand, they cannot change the

bar.
So it's, it's the other is the

is the other side of the coin
versus an importer that manages

more the relationship with the
brand owners.

And it could be that the
importer may have a a sales team

around 10 people nationwide that
builds the demand, and then the

wholesaler may have another 10
or 20 in that city in Paris, 20

people, while an importer would
have in France 10 people going

around.
Yeah, we, we hire by channel.

So we have somebody to find
groceries, somebody for entree,

somebody for e-commerce,
somebody for independent retail,

somebody for wholesale.
And to your point, we've got

about 60 wholesalers around the
country in the UK, where we

manage exclusively for the UK.
So we are an exclusive importer.

There's nobody else importing
those products but us in the UK.

OK.
So with all these different

parties touching and
contributing to the brand

building, how does setting
pricing work in different

markets?
Soren, can we start with the EU?

Yeah.
So one of the challenges that we

work with a lot of craft
emerging brands, one of the

challenges that we see is the
taxation.

So for example, for if you look
at a 70 centilitre 40% ABV

bottle, the taxation, the
alcohol tax on that product in

Germany is 3.6 euros.
In Sweden, it's it's over 30 EUR

1313 euros.
So that, that difference makes

it super challenging for, for
the brands to set pricing that

aligns cross, cross, cross
borders, which I don't know what

you guys think, but some, some,
some brands when they grow, when

they're growing and they, they
get bigger, you also have

expectations, right?
You know what the pricing is of

the brand in one market.
It it can't be the topple of the

price in another market, right?
Yeah.

And though the UK is no longer
in the EU, when we see pricing

in markets, other markets which
are is drastically lower than it

is in the UK, we know product
will come in through

wholesalers, retailers.
There's we still get a lot of

Gray market stock if it is a lot
cheaper in say Spain or Greece

or Germany, it still makes its
way to the UK.

So I would say even definitely
know the value chain in each

market, but I would probably
keep the as far as again the top

line pricing relatively the
same.

Otherwise, I mean especially in
the EU, you get product moving

all over.
Chris, do you have brands that

you work with and advise on
pricing?

Yeah, what I would add on to
this is also about setting

expectations on what's your
sales target.

Because actually all this
movement within the EU is driven

by, if I got a crazy target and
I cannot sort it out in my

country, then I'll send it
somewhere else.

So it's it's also understanding
of what can the market take

without setting objectives that
are top down because then it

becomes a never ending game of
every country sending it to the

other one just trying to to
catch up with the targets.

Yeah.
So Soren, when you have a new

brand that wants to come into
the EU for for the first time

and you guys work in a handful
of markets, right, what, what is

the first step that you would
advise them to do on pricing?

Can they work with you to set
it?

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.
We, we held brands with, with

the pricing as well.
We, we obviously we're a tech

company, right.
So, so we've, we've, we've built

a platform that automates
everything from setting the

pricing to, to handling the, the
back office and logistics.

So we, we do help with, with,
with pricing for, for, for us,

it's, it's about having a
discussion with the banks about

what, what's their ambition,
what's their targets, because

that often there's, there's
often a misalignment with the

way they price themselves,
contract what their targets and

ambitions are.
What are some common mistakes

you see in that area?
Is that it just misalignment and

what they think the price should
be in?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
definitely, definitely that

that's, that's a big, that's a
big, that's a big mistake.

And another one that we see is
that they they don't, they don't

take charge of, of, of how to
set the pricing and also how,

how the, how, how to build a
brand.

They, they expect the
distributors and the import us

to, to, to do that.
And I think personally I think

that is wrong.
I think the brands should drive

that.
They should be involved in the

pricing, but of course also take
charge of of the brand building,

Yeah.
OK.

All right.
I'm going to pin that because

we're going to come back to it,
but I'm going to segue into

talking about just the
observations and assessments

this year in your respective
markets as it pertains to the

alcohol industry, right?
So what categories are doing

well, which ones are hurting?
You know, what traits do you see

across brands that are doing
well in your markets?

So overall assessments.
Yeah, so you.

Cover a lot of markets.
Yeah, Yeah.

We have a lot of markets, but
overall what I've seen which is

really interesting is that first
when we started B Makers, we we

did work a lot with, with
emerging brands.

Now we see going direct and
building the brands from from

the bottom up is is actually
becoming an interest for some of

the bigger players in the
industry as well.

They are looking for alternative
ways of, of growing their band,

whether that might be doing
e-commerce or or or doing direct

sales into into hotels,
restaurants and bars.

So that has been really
interesting to experience

because we we, we haven't seen
that the the previous years, but

they're definitely showcasing
interest.

Right.
I mean, not to be all doom and

gloom about the UK, especially
when you you paste such a nice

picture of the EU, but you know,
in the UK it is, it's very much

a case of a currently, I'd say a
perfect storm.

You know, we've got people who
are generally that the trends

are towards drinking less and at
the same time we have a cost of

living crisis.
So people are spending less and

drinking less.
And I talk to the bars.

The bars say, you know, we are
empty on a Friday because we

don't get the same work.
People aren't in the office on

Fridays anymore.
They're usually working midweek.

So the working patterns have
changed.

That's affected the on trade and
people are staying for less time

and spending less than they do.
And this is from hotel bars to

trendy on trade bars.
I mean, I'm hearing it kind of

across the board.
Customers are looking for more

exponential things.
So restaurants are often doing,

some restaurants are doing very
well, but boxed inland bars are

struggling a bit.
And at the same time on, on

retail, you know, we, we are
seeing bigger discounts from the

bigger brands we've ever seen.
I mean, we're seeing what might

be 1015% off is now 30% off.
You know, we're seeing really

steep discounts.
I think I saw lag of 116 the

other week for £50.
That's about 30 lbs off Did.

You buy it.
I didn't buy it.

I've got, I've got more than
enough whiskey at home.

I don't, I don't need another
bottle.

But but if I say, you know, when
the big brands are leading by

doing steep discounts, it's
making it only harder for the

small independent brands who
can't accept that kind of margin

loss.
So I think these things are

cyclical.
I think we're we will bounce

back.
I'm hearing positive things from

a lot of people I speak to about
second-half of this year, but

first half was really, yeah,
Chris.

What are you hearing from there?
I mean, I would, I would add

building on what you were saying
about retail or about building

from the bottom up, is that
sometimes brick brands think

that helicopter money will fix
everything.

They will do ATL advertising,
stick it up and it will sell.

But it doesn't work like that
anymore.

There's so many brands out there
and so on.

I work with big and small brands
and the way of working for me is

the same.
You have to win the outlets and

you have to consolidate the
foundation.

Some brands that I see that
they're doing maybe like plus

15% versus last year, but
they're in red numbers because

the target was like 40%.
So are you really suffering or

are you suffering on your dreams
kind of thing now?

And this is a wake up call for
many brands because sometimes

they just rush into retail for
example without even build the

foundation in the entree then in
the other channels like

e-commerce and so on.
And they think that just because

they have a contact with big
retailers, I mean, of course

they're the buyer is going to
say yes because they've got

other big brands, but then it's
not going to rotate and it's

going to collect dust on the
shelf.

So is it the right sign to be
listed in that store yet?

Maybe you have to wait two years
and you have to manage

management to actually slow down
a little bit because otherwise

you end up doing this 30
percent, 40% off, which is

ridiculous.
And then people are always going

to buy only on offer because
they know it's going to happen

and live in Prague and in Czech
Republic.

That's 85% promo pressure on in
the industry.

And it's crazy.
Basically, if you see it full

price, just wait one month.
I mean, you're not in a rush,

you know?
But I am an optimist and I

should, I want to make it very
clear that I think there is

still a lot of opportunity even
in the UK.

And the brands to your point,
Chris, the brands that really

invest the time in the bars
right now that are that are

struggling and the retailers
that are, you know, getting in

there and doing the samplings
every day and actually being

present, those buyers will not
forget when things do turn back

around.
So I think this is a really good

time to be showing the the the
time and attention to the

really, really key accounts for
your brands.

Soren, are there any particular
markets, since we've already

established you guys work in a
few of them, are there any

particular markets that are kind
of bright spots or doing well?

Yeah, I think, I think
Scandinavia is, is is doing

quite well.
But but for us it's, we're,

we're not necessarily looking at
and judging categories and

markets.
We are more looking at whether

the brands exactly as you say,
if, if they're going out there

and if they invest, they can,
they can make it work in

Germany, but they can also make
it work in Sweden, right?

It's the same thing.
They need to get out there in

front of the customers.
They need to, they need to

connect with people, they need
to spend time and resources on

building up the brand and that
is regardless of which market

they're in and also regardless
of which product category

they're in.
Also the so-called declared debt

categories, right?
Sure.

OK.
All right.

So I.
Would also have no matter who

does that as well, because if
you cannot be in that market,

you have to allocate, whether
it's an A&P budget, advertising

promotion or any other sort of
budget, however you call the

marketing spend to make that
happen.

So it could be a brand
ambassador in that city.

It could be an extra support to
a wholesaler, to an importer or

distributor.
You have to have someone because

there's no shortcuts.
You mean someone has to do it.

Someone has to go to that park
and you have to choose who's

going, who's got the time to do
it.

But if you don't have time, you
must have the money to to have

someone else.
It's like we're doing chores.

That's all.
Either you clean yourself or you

have a cleaner, but somebody has
to clean it.

Yeah.
OK.

OK.
Before we get too deep into

brand building strategy
strategy, let me start with

let's talk about how you get a
distributor in a new market in

in the EU.
So what do you think?

Let's, you know, pretend I have
a, a brand or vodka and I want

to go into the EU or UK.
You know what is your best

advice for how to identify the
right distributor for your

brand?
I'll jump in.

I mean there's no silver bullet
here of course, so but there are

a number of factors I would
probably consider as a top line

for which distributor choose.
So first of all you want to be

in a portfolio of like minded
brands.

You want to have a probably that
wouldn't have something on the

port that directly conflicts
with what you do sharing the

focus of that team.
I think you also want to think

about the channel strategy, what
are the strengths of this

distributor?
Are they really strong in on

trade?
I mean, I would say Maverick

drinks has a unique expertise in
E com.

I think we're we are digitally
LED distributor we partly

because we own an e-commerce
business.

So we know that Channel very
well.

And if that suits your brand
strategy then great.

What I think is I'm going to
make some mistakes is we have a

lot of brands to say, well, you
know the market, you tell us how

to build it and that turns us
off really quickly from our

brand more than basically
anything else.

We want them to come to us
saying, look, we, we have

deliberately chosen to go in the
UK because of these reasons.

The market is up 10% year in
year.

The there are no brands quite
like ours.

We have a unique opportunity for
a our, our customer base are

really have have a strong
presence in the UK.

Like give me something to hang
on to that says you have decided

on the UK and is deliberate
rather than well, I'd just like

to get another market or because
the UK is such a flagship

market, they say they feel like
they need to be in it.

Nobody needs to be in any
market.

You should want to be in those
markets and choose them

deliberately.
Sure.

Well, it's, it's the same thing
we hear a lot.

I mean, there's, there's,
there's there's many companies,

many brands out there that are
like, yeah, we want to get into

the UK because it's the next
natural step, right.

But, but why?
I mean, they haven't, a lot of

them haven't done the research.
And the reality is there's

there's a lot of smaller markets
that could be a better fit one.

100% and especially when you're
small because we're talking like

brands that are doing like a few
100 cases or a few 1000 cases.

So it doesn't matter if the
market is I want to a big size

of the pie because you're going
to have a muffin at this stage,

you know, ways to grow.
And also I would say to start

from the other way around, I
would say the logistic is top

down, but the brand building is
bottom up.

Understand what's your target
occasion, understand where those

bars are and even fly in, talk
to them and who do you buy from

these wholesalers?
Start to understand how it

works.
What's the wholesaler?

What's the important?
If you start to get like a few

people that starting to mention
Maverick drinks, all of a sudden

start to be the Maverick drink
probably has already access to

these bars that I want to get
to, which are not the best bars

like 50 best necessarily.
They are the best bars for your

brand for that occasion.
And then you build the line

backwards starting from the end
and you then you end up with

Michael but you don't pick up
the phone and call Michael

without having never been to
London or Manchester.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
No, I mean, if you're if you're

if you're a spritz brand, maybe
don't go to the market.

It's like it rains 80% of the
year.

Like, you know, just because the
UK is such a flagship market, go

back to occasion.
And actually, why is the UKA

good fit and well, probably
isn't if you're all about

sunshine and good weather days.
Yeah.

No, I just wanted to add that
one, one thing that we that that

we always advise and and tell
our brands is to figure out

what, what you can deliver to
your distributors and importer.

What do you have to offer?
Because a lot of brands, they

will do exactly that, right?
They will send a presentation

and then wait for a reply, but
that's not going to happen and

especially not these days.
But the brands we work with that

are doing super well, they spend
time in the market.

They make sure to go out there
and get in front of the

customers and with us.
They can sell into the

customers, they can sell into
the bars and the bottle stores.

And if they do that and they
come back with actual customers

already buying and engaging with
the products, discussions with

Merrick Drinks and other
distributors are just going to

be easier.
So we've talked about that.

You guys advise not sort of like
expanding beyond, you know, need

or demand or not thinking about
it.

I'm curious to know if you see
like during a challenging market

kind of knee jerk reactions to
people who think like, oh, this

one is not doing well, like I
need to expand it to another

one.
Do you see that more during a

challenging economic time?
I'd say we actually see a little

bit the opposite.
We're seeing a lot of people who

are we're getting more pitches
through because they're looking.

So we're getting the people who
are looking knee jerk reaction

got to get more markets.
So we're getting a lot of

pitches that are just half assed
pitches that don't really make

any sense.
They just want to ship another

pallet because maybe some of the
markets are doing well.

So we're seeing, I'm not saying
the brands who are running

towards the market, but I'm
getting the other end.

I'm getting the brands who come
to us with with no real sense of

why they want to go in the UK,
but any distributor, any pallet

I can send, just send another
one, get the numbers back up,

yeah.
Yeah.

And I would say also, I see a
lot of brands, the first thing

that mentions distributed in 22
markets, 15 markets, 35 markets.

But then in the end, like when
we talk about how much they

sell, it's peanuts anyway, you
spread yourself too thin across

all these markets.
So I'm always a big fan of

winning the home turf first, no
matter how tough it is.

It's a thin line between what
you won't see the winning but at

least be relevant somewhere and
so that you can actually go to

other markets.
But it's very easy often,

especially at UK brands because
you with the UK market is so

tough, then automatically they
ship it out.

But then if you are from
Leicester or Birmingham and

nobody has ever heard your brand
in those cities, what you put in

the selling pitch for a country
like Germany or any other

markets?
Yeah, for sure.

I mean that makes sense.
And I think a good segue and

that's a good take away into
talking about like best ways to

just support your markets or new
markets that you go into.

What are what are some of the
like the basic things that you

recommend for a brand coming
into your market that is not

based there already?
Yeah.

So for us with our model, the
brands are in the driving seat.

They are the ones that are in
charge of, of building it and

making it grow.
And I think there's, there's

also a misconception about this,
right?

Because a lot of brands, they
think the distributors and

importers are in the driving
seat for building the brand and

the, and the growth.
But with us, they need to take

full charge.
So they need to make sure to do

the research, figure out who are
their target customers.

They need to get to know them
and they need to come out and

make sure to put the liquid in
in front of in front of the

bias.
So we expect the brands that we

work with to come with a plan
and have done some research

before they actually enter into
a new market without having to

know happen to know why.
Sure.

I mean, the founder coming to
visit once a year just isn't

going to really cut it for us.
We really encourage the brands

to hire somebody on the ground,
whether that is somebody who

sits within our sales team or is
more on trade focus, if it

depends on the brand what what
what their strategy is.

But the brands are doing the
best for us, have all hired

their own people as well in the
UK, even sometimes two or three

people in the UK because it's
such a tight market.

Sure.
I would also say locate the

budget on whether you do it
personally or with external

resources and third parties, but
also a way to look at the

expansion.
For me, it's also like

understanding the weak signals.
So first of all, you can do a

lot already from the distance
because Instagram, Google Maps,

you mean nowadays guides and you
can already see a lot of stuff

before you actually fly in.
And then also trying to

understand that when you connect
to people online, whether it's

bartenders, bar owners and so
on, you start to understand,

maybe you get a request on
Instagram, oh, you're not in

Berlin, how can I get you?
And those start to be

interesting signals for you to
actually say, oh, maybe Berlin

could be something interesting.
And then maybe you can have a

solution, for example, like B
makers to say, actually I do

small entry.
I just ship some cases there.

I just go to a few bars.
I don't need a distributor yet.

I just move my first steps in
that market.

And then when the fruits are
there, I will start talking to a

wholesaler, to a distributor, to
an importer.

We actually have a one brand
KIRO Whiskey from Finland and I

say their founder coming over,
you know, once once a year their

founder moved to the UK for a
year.

They hired somebody in marketing
and sales on the ground and

built A-Team and base in the UK
and it, I mean it, it really

showed in the numbers.
So yeah.

Yeah.
So that begs the question for

me, Let's talk timeline, let's
talk timeline, right?

I know this is going to vary by
brand, right?

But I want to know the kind of
level set expectations on what

kind of timeline can you expect
to actually start seeing

traction?
And how long should you just be

patient, you know, while you're
around?

For us at least, I'd say it's at
least six months to probably

more like 1218.
I think, I think 6 months is

just literally laying the
groundwork, getting pricing

established like we there really
is, especially we're taking over

from somebody else.
There's a lot of work that just

goes into preparing to actually
go out and do the sales.

Plus things are cyclical, so
buyer cycles.

There may only be two windows a
year.

A big bar group may only do
their range review once a year.

So I would say six months to
just get a baseline of what we

think we can do.
And it's probably 12 to 18

months for really actually
getting real traction.

And when you have a timeline in
actual time, months and years,

or at least like frame it as a
mindset, I like to go only one

box or one case.
One palette is like the three

kind of like mindset is not that
you're selling 1 box or one

case, but it's a mindset kind of
thing.

And then there's a thin line.
It's not now I enter the 1K

stage.
It's a mindset thing.

The one box you start moving
your steps with your feet, then

you start in the second phase is
that you start to be for

example, with Michael.
And then in the third stage, you

start to talk to retailers, for
example.

And then you start to export to
other markets now, but at least

you frame it because it can be
very overwhelming, especially

for a small brand to actually
say, oh, where do I go and start

grasping opportunities.
And then all of a sudden you

don't even notice and you are
stocked in a retailer on

discount while you were in five
bars in the first city.

So there's also an element of
patience.

Of course it depends on the
runway that brand owner has, but

at the same time it's like
there's some steps that they

have to do and you cannot fast
track.

Things, one thing I would like
to add is that a lot of brands

we see that, that I mean,
they're quite overwhelmed,

right?
Because we, we do have a lot of

markets that we work with, but
selling in their home market is,

is, is often you know, it's,
it's quite simple.

They go out and do some tastings
and they they'll sell to them,

right.
We see brands now that are doing

an Omni channel strategy so that
they'll they'll still sit in

their home market.
They will reach out to bars,

restaurants, bottle stores via
Instagram, via calls, etcetera

and then send samples to them
and do digital tastings and get

the first listings going through
that.

And we've actually had some
brands that have landed some

super good national listings
just from Instagram.

So I also think that times where
you have to be present as, as a,

as a brand owner and the sales
guy, those times where you have

to be present every week, they,
they, it's not necessary

anymore.
You can start as a smaller

brand.
You can you can start by doing

it from this distance and and
and visit once in a while to to

to to do the physical tastings
and get in front of them in

front of them.
If I can say one thing about the

Bean Maker's platform, so I'm
relatively new to their

platform, so bear with me if I
get anything wrong, But I think

what your platform enables in,
in a in for people to be able to

get into so many more markets
and seed into the markets is

really exciting.
For a distributor like us to

look and go, they can already
build a good base there.

If they wanted to go to a full
distribution model, we have a

lot more proof based on the work
that they would have done

through Bee Makers.
I'm not saying that's the

necessary third path, but
certainly one of the things we

look for in brands is that
there's actually already some

traction in the UK that's very
appealing to us.

So I can see a platform like Bee
Makers being a perfect way to

seed into some of these markets
show there's the traction And

then if you wanted to go into a
full distribution model, then

that might be an option or young
it might just be going really

well.
You might you stay with Bee

Makers, but.
Well, it's, it's definitely, I

mean, some of some of our
brands, they, they, they, they

do receive, they do receive
requests from distributors and

importers.
And that is, that is because

they have built a foundation.
Yeah, they, they had a, they

have a good customer base and
they have a good, they have a

good ecommerce business going on
already.

And that's just a good, good
foundation for guys like used to

to build on.
It's probably the single most

exciting thing to us for about
brand is that they've already

got opportunities that makes our
job easy, right, If they've

already built something, it's
easier for us to scale brand

than to build a brand and
certainly the way we build our

business.
So if there are two 3000 case

brand, it's easy for us to get
to a 10,000 case brand, then

it's for us to go from zero to
3000.

Also, I'm understanding the
right place because it could be

hybrid solutions, you know, like
it could be you go with the

makers into the market and then
Michael picks it up, brings it

to more customers.
Or also like what you were

saying is trying to understand
who's adding certain value

because sometimes I see a lot of
brand owners doing the mistake

that they blame the, the
systems.

It's the importer's fault, not
the importer says it's the

wholesalers fault.
No, it's the bar fault.

It's not about faults we all
need together.

It's a drink seeker system and
let's have the way that brings

us more results, whatever that
logistic pathway is.

Yeah, fully agree.
I think it's a mindset or or

like more brands need to adopt
like no one owes you anything,

right?
You have to earn it.

OK, well, while we're talking
about brand building and

creating demand and we are at a
trade show, let's talk event

activation best practices.
You know how much you know

resources to put into that.
You know when you're young.

So we see quite a lot of brands
that are willing to spend

€10,000 on a stand but not
willing to prepare.

So if you do that, if you are
coming here and and spending

those money, I think the brands
should be prepared with

meetings.
They should spend some days here

before visit customers, visit
bars, getting to know the

ecosystem in the city because
it's, it can be a little

frustrating for me to see the
brands that they're just pouring

out money and they're not
preparing with, with, with

contacts and meetings.
It's, it's weird.

I don't know why they do this,
but I mean, the, the excuses are

we're busy with production or,
or we don't have the time.

So it's, it's definitely
important.

And, and also the brands that we
see are doing the best.

I mean, they are super prepared.
They already know who to talk

to.
They have the bar takeovers

lined up.
So yeah, be prepared.

OK.
In in the larger ecosystem of,

you know, brand building and
allocating your resources for a

small brand, where do you think
is the most bang for your buck?

Is it like digital marketing?
Trade shows?

E-commerce tastings?
It's tough to say because it

really does depend on the brand.
So, and I know that sounds like

a total compound answer, but you
know, we, we've got some brands

that are backed by celebrities
and that that I know that's the

very en vogue thing.
The brands du jour are all

celebrity back.
But for them, e-commerce is

great because they've got a big
platform investing in an

e-commerce platform.
The reach can be literally

millions.
And so we we say everyone knows

you, Let's put you out in front
of as many eyeballs as we can.

It's probably less on the, say,
liquid on lips or sampling

because we want the celebrities
they want, we want them to drive

the sales as much as possible.
So where other brands, I'd say

for most of the brands we work
with, it is much more get as

many people to try it as
possible.

So it does depend on the brand,
yeah.

That makes sense.
I would also try to consolidate

build distribution growth while
building rotation.

Always a big fan of the one case
in one bar is better than 6

bottles in each 6 bars because
then you move and you

consolidate what you've done and
then you grow slowly now.

And also understand that, for
example, if you do an event in a

bar where you have a listing or
where you want to get a listing

and you will have a listing
because otherwise all those

liquid and lips thing that you
activated 300 people that night,

then they're going to go back
the next week and ask you for

your product and your product
doesn't exist.

So sometimes I see a lot of
things like let's activate a

Stockholm Fashion Week or
whatever, but OK, are you listed

in the retail?
Because if you activate the

Fashion Week, then if people can
go to retail to buy it, that's

something.
But otherwise, all these people

are going to run around the city
and you're listed in five bars,

they will never find it.
So grow, I don't want to say

slowly because I mean we also we
all want to grow up, but fix the

fundamentals before trying to
shoot to the moon kind of thing.

Yeah, that makes great sense.
I don't have my phone on me.

What time is it?
How much time are you?

45.
OK, OK.

We're making good time.
I want to make sure that I get a

chance to let the audience ask
any questions that you might

have about distribution and
partners.

So I have, can we grab a
microphone?

We have some hands up here.
I'm all ready.

Thank you, Amit.
Oh, turn it.

On, yeah, OK, perfect.
So a lot of, as a small brand,

we speak to a lot of
distributors and they then ask

for budgets.
Would you recommend giving

budgets or say, let's invest the
budgets ourselves and get boots

on the ground or get our own
structure?

Because some say like, oh, we
need 20,000 to reach this

market, but then it seems like
the distributor is going to do a

lot of work.
Is how does that normally work?

The hard truth is both.
So we really do, you know, we

really do value the people on
the ground.

I think it's one of the best
ways to spend your money.

But the there are realities of
some of the commercial deals we

will do that.
We just not enough margin for

us.
We can't support, you know, on

the distributed margin is we're
not swimming in cash here.

You know, I was saying to Chris
earlier on a bottle of gin, we

probably would need to sell
10,000 bottles to pay for one

junior salesperson or team.
So the margins are not that big

for distributors.
So for us to go in and say

getting a listing in a national
retailer or even in a single

bar, but that does a lot of
volume, there's probably a

commercial reality that is going
to need to be supported and that

we just simply can't fund that
out of our pocket.

So it's probably both, sorry.
I would even add to Michael's

point.
It's not much about what you do,

it's how you do it because you
could have a resource and

imagine me in the market and
then I'm hired and then I don't

have clear rules of engagement
with Michael.

It's a waste of time.
But it could be that you hired

me through him.
I'm on his company's payroll or

I'm through an external agency,
which is going to probably, you

know, a markup on it or maybe
it's a freelance.

Oh, there's Chris, this cool guy
in London that walks around bars

and help you.
Michael, very often he gets lost

in translation because so it's
not about the money because

maybe the money got wasted or
it's not about the person

because it could actually be the
exact same person with the wrong

rule of engagement.
And I've worked in many markets

and I've seen it so many times
that, for example, if Michael

hires him, then all of a sudden
actually you're cool.

You're going to work on other
brands as well or vice versa.

He doesn't.
That person, the guy or girl

doesn't blend.
And then because Michael's

organization is kind of like
shielding the the team.

So it's also the nuances are
important and.

We have definitely hire people
in our team on behalf of the

brands.
So it's a, it's a very common

model for us where we'll go out,
we'll do the hiring, we'll do

the interviewing.
The brands definitely have final

say, but we are we are employing
them within our business.

OK.
Other questions?

Raise your hand.
Hey guys, I was just curious

what how does the direct to
consumer market model work?

You know for example, if you
connect brands straight to the

consumer, how do you get paid?
Like how does?

What are the numbers?
Yeah.

So our model is is Commission
based.

So whenever the brand has a
sale, that could be consumer, it

could be the monopolies, it
could be to restaurant or bar.

What we do is that we take care
of all the back office, we ship

the products and once the
products has been delivered, we

take the auto value, deduct the
taxes, report those to the

different tax agencies in
Sweden, Germany, etc.

And then we pay out to the
brands or we take, we take a

smaller margin.
Then then of course we take a

smaller margin than the the
distributors and importers

because the brands also needs to
have room for, for, for sales

and marketing activities and
they're in charge of, of, of the

brand building.
Awesome.

Thank you.
I think I just didn't understand

earlier on that you control the
process.

So yeah, it makes sense now,
all.

Right.
Anybody any other questions?

All right.
Well then I'm going to ask one

or two more to close out here.
Really, I just want to get to

sort of what are your most
important takeaways for this

process of establishing a
distribution relationship and

getting it right?
Shuster, I would say in a

nutshell, it's focus on the sell
out.

I always say sell the first
bottle with the second one in

mind.
If you know that person is not

going to sell out, don't sell it
to them.

If you know that person is not
going to work on it, whether

it's a distributor or an
importer, whoever it is, am I

going to help them sell it out?
Because the sell out drives the

sell back in.
But otherwise you're just like

stuffing them up.
And nobody wants to have dusty

bottles.
Wherever Pet warehouse is, it's

an importer.
It's, it's in a Bundy warehouse,

it's in a cellar, in a pub,
whatever there is, you know,

like nobody wants to have these
dusty bottles that you curse,

you know, at the end of the day.
Yeah, for sure.

I mean, I should start, start by
saying we're open for business.

I mean like we, we are always
open to new brands.

We, we, we've taken on new
brands every year.

There is AI wouldn't say a hard
and fast criteria to what we're

looking for, but come to us and
they say prepared, come to us

and you've done the homework.
Why is the UK relevant for your

brand?
Why is it going to be relevant

for us?
Why does the UK market need this

thing when we have thousands and
10s of thousands of other

brands?
Why does the UK market need

yours and what are you going to
do to help support and build it?

Come to us with a very good
plan.

We'll always take a meeting.
OK, I like it, Soren.

Yeah, I I'd say I mentioned it
before, but don't expect

importers and and distributors
to to, to build the brand for

you.
Take charge.

You're you're the one in the
driver's seat.

So take charge and make make
make sure you keep investing and

make sure make sure that the
distributors and importers you

work with, they understand and
see the value in in your brand.

Keep delivering value to them.
All right, wonderful.

Well, we'll wrap it up there
guys, if there's no more

questions.
Thank you so much for your

expertise and wealth of
knowledge.

We appreciate it.
Thank you.

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