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The biggest shifts in a business often come from decisions no one else sees.
Future Proof is a show for business owners facing the pressure to grow and the weight of legacy, often at the same time.
Hosted by Scott Eckart, each episode features honest conversations with leaders who’ve made bold moves, stepped into succession, or redefined success altogether. You’ll hear what they were up against, what they chose, and what they’d do differently now.
If you're thinking about what's next and want to build a business that lasts, this is the show for you.
Scott Eckart (00:02):
I'm Scott Eckhart, and this is FutureProof, a show for building something that lasts. Let's get into it. Hello, everyone. Joining us today is Caleb Campbell, a nationally known speaker and executive coach who helps leaders and their teams turn life's pressures into a pathway for expanded growth.
Caleb Campbell (00:21):
But as we begin to live from greater alignment, I think we'll see a lot of the destruction and a lot of the pain course correct, and we'll see a lot of the misalignment that's now creating a lot of suffering in our world. I think there will be a move towards greater alignment externally as there is internally. And so I think it's a big hope, but I am excited because I am seeing a lot of different leaders recognize the importance of this shift in consciousness, and I want to be a part of it.
Scott Eckart (00:48):
During my time with Caleb, you'll hear more about the impact of knowing your true self and how to discover that. So let's get into it. Welcome everyone to this episode of Future Proof. I am so excited to have Caleb Campbell with me today. Caleb, can you say hello, sir?
Caleb Campbell (01:07):
Hey, Scott, thanks for having me.
Scott Eckart (01:09):
Caleb, I think I've shared with you that FutureProof is really for business owners, entrepreneurs. We're here to celebrate innovation, and certainly what you've done is a celebration of your personal journey. So as we get started, Caleb, what would you like to say to our listeners this morning?
Caleb Campbell (01:25):
First off, it's so great to be with you. I love the conversations that you're having. And when I saw the inquiry come through my website, I was definitely drawn to this idea of future proof because I just think it's a necessary and needed conversation today, given the amount of uncertainty and unpredictability that we're living inside of. I think the pressure that a lot of us as business owners, as leaders that we're experiencing, isn't just growing every day, it's compounding every day. And so I'm very interested and excited to continue this conversation today.
Scott Eckart (01:59):
One thing that I've heard you say is the idea that people, sometimes they think they're chasing success, but they're really avoiding fear. So we're going to talk about that today because I know I have learned more from my failures and my successes for sure as a business owner and also repurposing pressure for growth. You're married to Kara and you're a dad and two kiddos, and that's a big part of who you are, I know, as well. So we're going to talk about what I call work-life integration. I don't believe in work-life balance because that's kind of, I think, a misnomer, but I want to talk about work-life integration because I know a lot of entrepreneurs, I ask them, "Hey, can you have it all? Can you do it all and do that? " And so I know you've got things to say about that as well.
(02:48):
So can we go back in time and can you share with our audience, with our listeners, what happened to Caleb?
Caleb Campbell (02:56):
It's funny, I asked my therapist that question every week, "What happened to Caleb?" I often say there's a forward-facing story, and then there is another story that was happening throughout these different seasons of life that we'll get into, but another deeper story that was happening behind the scenes. And the forward-facing story that everybody saw was, I go to West Point, I'm freshman year, I have a breakout year. My sophomore year is even a bigger year, and I become one of the top collegiate football players in all of college America in my position. My junior year, I have a season-ending knee injury, and I was able to bounce back. And my senior year, I found myself having another great season and sitting where every football player at some time, I think, dreams about being in. At the time, it was in the iconic Radio City Music Hall in New York City where I was surrounded by 10,000 screaming fans chanting my name as the commissioner of the NFL, Roger Goodell.
(03:56):
He walked to a podium to announce to me, the screaming fans. And I think it was around 36 million people tuning in from their homes that the Detroit Lions had just selected me in the NFL draft, making a childhood dream.
Scott Eckart (04:08):
Sorry, that was a childhood dream?
Caleb Campbell (04:10):
Oh yeah. Yeah. I grew up in Texas. Scott, when you were born in Texas, in the Texas Panhandle where I was born, you were given a Bible, a football, and an American flag in about that order.
Scott Eckart (04:21):
Okay. Very good.
Caleb Campbell (04:24):
And I think for me, Scott, I tell this story often and I've been thinking about it even more as I have two young kids. I played the game of football ever since I was able to run. And I was about eight years old, seven years old when I scored, and I remember this like it was yesterday. I scored this game-winning touchdown. It was the community All-Star Championship football game. And so growing up in Texas, you can imagine this was a big deal. And after I scored that touchdown, I remember looking at the sideline and I was staring and I was trying to find my biggest fan, and it was my mom. And when I got to my mom, or I'll never forget, Scott, she was looking down at me. I was looking up at her. She had this bright, beautiful smile on her face and she said, "Caleb, you scored the game winning touchdown.
(05:05):
I am so proud of you. " And she said it so enthusiastically and such love in her heart. And I just felt every single one of those words. And I'm just telling you this story because I was also seven years old when I was taught to believe that my performance in life determines my measure of acceptance in this way, that my primary caretaker, my mother, she just now said, "I love you so much. You scored the game winning touchdown." I connected the dots. And so from that point on, and a lot of this was obviously unconsciously, but from that point on, stats were no longer just numbers on a piece of paper. They were now a definition of my worth. And success wasn't something that I did or didn't do. It was now who I was or who I was not. And that created at the time, as you can probably imagine, a deep fear of not being enough.
(05:51):
But even at a young age, I had this, I guess, uncanny ability to compartmentalize that fear, but more importantly, source that fear and use that fear as ambition, as motivation to fuel this performance-driven mindset. And that took me from scoring the game-winning touchdown, the community All-Star Championship game to being inducted into the Texas High School Football Hall of Fame, to getting that Division one College Football Scholarship to play at West Point. And again, find myself my senior year at Radio City Music Hall, my childhood dream coming true. And everything changed in this moment though, because up until this point, the game almost felt like a gift to play, a gift to enjoy. It felt like play. I loved every minute of it. But when I got to the NFL and I was sitting on national television with, at the time, ESPN host Trey Wingo, and he didn't mean any harm with this, but on national television, he said, "Caleb, I need you to know something.
(06:52):
You're not just another athlete." He said, "You are America's athlete. You're a West Point graduate, you're an Army officer, and now you're an NFL athlete. How does it feel?" And yeah, I know he meant well, but I really feel in this moment, there was this definitive shift that happened where I was no longer an athlete chasing success. I was now an athlete trying to preserve the image of being a success. And that was a very definitive, tangible shift that happened in my life that would wreak a lot of havoc in my life. And that statement in and of itself created this idea of the expectations that I now had to live up to. This is how you see me. And so this is how I earned my acceptance, my approval, my belonging in this world. This is the way that I survive. And so all of my energy has to be used to not only measure up to those expectations, but also to manage the image of who you think that I am.
(07:53):
And so that just created a very big gap between how I externally presented myself and my internal reality in life. And every single day, as I navigated the complexity and the intensity of the NFL and trying to meet the demands on my life as a army officer and to measure up to everyone's expectations, including mine, that gap began to widen, the gap between the demands on my life professionally and personally and my internal capacity to meet those demands. And as that gap widened, everything began to suffer. And eventually, four years down the road, I found myself externally successful, but internally bankrupt. And I was now in the middle of my childhood dream, but not only did I not know who I was, but I knew the way that I was trying to cope with the pain that I was trying to survive my way through the season of life, it was leading me to making some decisions that ultimately I had enough awareness to know if something doesn't change and change soon life as I know it will probably be over.
(08:58):
Did
Scott Eckart (08:58):
You have anybody to talk to at the time? No.
Caleb Campbell (09:00):
Did you have a
Scott Eckart (09:00):
Mentor? Did you have a coach or anyone at all?
Caleb Campbell (09:03):
No. And this is where I'm like, damn it, Scott, where were you 15 years ago in my life? And it wasn't that I didn't have somebody in my life. I think it was more so I didn't know how to embody the authenticity and to lean into the edges of vulnerability and allow somebody into my story. Because again, my deepest fear is that if you saw the real me, if you saw the fear that I was carrying in my life, if you saw the insecurity mask behind this performance-driven athlete, you would quickly see that I am not who you think that I am. And if I'm not who you think that I am, that would result in me losing all of the ways that I have found acceptance and belonging and have ultimately survived my life. And so it was not an option in my head to allow other people into this story.
Scott Eckart (09:48):
But I'm sure that you found all these years later that someone yourself who has an amazing story, that when you take the lead as in situations where I've taken the lead, when men become vulnerable, they give other men the permission to also step up. And it's one of the most powerful things we can do, right?
Caleb Campbell (10:07):
Yes.
Scott Eckart (10:08):
Absolutely. And it's an amazing way to lead. And I hope that any business leader listening to this, in particular men, that they understand the unbelievable power that they have if they will share, if they will put their cards down because somebody's waiting for somebody to do it, just please give me the permission to share.
Caleb Campbell (10:29):
I think it's really the very definition of courageous leadership today. And everybody wants to talk about authenticity over the last several years because we do, we recognize the importance of it. Far too many people are pretending their way through leadership or pretending our way through life. This whole idea of fake it till you make it. I appreciate the heart behind it, but it's also terrible advice.
Scott Eckart (10:51):
Probably the worst business advice that anybody could ever-
Caleb Campbell (10:55):
Like, "Hey, here's a crazy idea. How about you stop and ask for help?" Yeah,
Scott Eckart (11:00):
And say, "Hey, I don't know the answer, but I'm going to go find
Caleb Campbell (11:04):
Out.
Scott Eckart (11:04):
Could I call you back on Tuesday?"
Caleb Campbell (11:06):
Yes, absolutely. And that just takes, I think, Scott, somebody that kind of has done the deeper work of separating who they are from what they do or who they are from the positions that they held. And that just requires a little bit more of an understanding at a deeper identity level where your worth comes from. And if it at any point in time is still being drawn from what you do or how well you do it, you're going to be in for a reckoning at some point in time.
Scott Eckart (11:36):
So things went kind of from bad to worse, I think, right?
Caleb Campbell (11:39):
They did. I thought I was at rock bottom. Turns out, Scott, there was a bottom beneath rock bottom.
Scott Eckart (11:45):
Subterranean basement.
Caleb Campbell (11:47):
Yes. When I decided to hang up my cleats, I knew that nothing was going to change unless I was willing to make a change, unless I was willing to change. And that was probably the hardest decision that I've ever had to make in my life. But when I look back at all of these decisions that I have made and that have had the most impact when it comes to not just success in my life that looks good, but success that looks good and feels good, it always points back to that decision. And when I think about what really made it such a monumentally impactful decision in my life, it wasn't just about walking away. It wasn't about quitting anything. For me, it was the first time, Scott, that I prioritized my wellbeing or the fear of what other people might think. And that is what would end up changing my life.
Scott Eckart (12:39):
You spent a period of time just kind of not really doing what you wanted to do.
Caleb Campbell (12:45):
Yeah, no, I left the NFL through a very strange series of events. I had no idea what was next in my life. I graduated West Point, and so there were a lot of different opportunities that came through the pipeline, other grads, hearing that I was leaving the game of football and offering me different, very, very great positions and different industries across all different leadership roles. And again, there was something in me that knew that if I just changed playing games, whatever I'm carrying right here, it would follow me everywhere I went. And until I was willing to face this and to get to the deeper challenges that I was carrying in my life, I kind of realized nothing in my life was going to change. And I have found that accomplishing the dream and realizing that you are just as empty, if not arguably more empty than when you started is such a gift.
(13:42):
It was such a gift to me because I realized that more success wasn't going to solve the internal deficit that I was carrying in my life. I knew that I could add more money, I could add more achievement, I could add more status, and it was not going to change this because for me, I had just reached the pinnacle of what I had been chasing my entire life. And again, it didn't actually compensate or actually resolve the tension that I was experiencing in my life. And so it was such a gift. And so I knew that I could change external roles in my life, but nothing here was going to change. And that's when I made this next decision of, okay, I need to figure out how to heal. I need to understand how do I look within myself. I've mastered the game of doing more, being more hustling harder and trying harder.
(14:29):
Now it's time to master the game of going within. And I had zero experience playing that game. And so a strange series of events, I moved to Canada where I would become a janitor of an organization, sleep on the basement floor of a boiler room for the next several years of my life. And I would wake up every day and clean toilets, vacuum floors, change light bulbs, and essentially do it for free therapy so that I could begin to not only repair my life, but wake up and look at the man that I saw in the mirror and be genuinely proud of who he is.
Scott Eckart (15:07):
So as you speak to business owners at this moment, let's say they're at a pivot, which is what part of Future Proof is about is identifying pivots. And we can go left, we can go right, we can go straight ahead. Talk to business owners about these moments they get to. Is it reaching out? Is it removing themselves from maybe a toxic environment? Is it taking a pause? Is it taking a sabbatical? I mean, you removed yourself from a situation, right? You weren't necessarily with a mentor. I don't know what you were reading at the time, I don't know, but clearly that series of events, that time that you invested in yourself, which was on one sense harmful to you financially. I mean, people could be like, "How could you do that? " That was set yourself behind. As people are in these moments of pivot, what would you say to them?
(15:58):
What are some things? Because I know you talk a lot about, you call the identity problem because I want to talk about that. Is that where you began to learn more about that? Because you speak a lot about the identity problem, which I think helps people kind of zero in on their next step.
Caleb Campbell (16:13):
I often work on the identity piece inside of coaching containers. On stage, I'm really talking about how we as leaders and teams can continue to build the internal capacity that allows us to rise under pressure when it matters the most because again, the pressure's not going anywhere. And so it's our job to become the type of people the pressure can't break. And that's a conversation that I love having, but arguably the conversation I love having even more is the identity component. And what I've realized and the kind of hard reality that we have to accept, Scott, is oftentimes when we are trying to close the gap between where we are and where we want to be, and we find ourselves at this threshold moment of should we stay? Should we walk away? Should we pin it? What is life asking of us? And life oftentimes in the uncertainty of that season can feel wildly tense.
(17:05):
It can be frustrating and overwhelming. And it can be, from my experience, very disorienting and you don't really feel clear on what the right move is. And from my experience, what I've realized is that oftentimes what we have to accept, Scott, is that if who you are today could create the life that you want tomorrow, it would've by now, but it can't and that's okay. So your identity, my identity, all of our identities have a upper limit. It has a ceiling. And oftentimes when life kind of moves us into these places where we are ready for a transition or we're ready for a pivot, whether it's something that we're choosing or whether it's something that has been chosen for us, oftentimes what that is, it's an experience that's mirroring back to us that, hey, the way that I am operating in this world, my identity, my thoughts, my beliefs, my behaviors that are driven by those things, it has reached its upper limit.
(18:03):
And in order for me to get a new life experience and not just repeat the same story over and over again, that's going to require me to evolve at an identity level. And so that's going to require me to become somebody new. And by becoming somebody new, I create the internal conditions within myself that are necessary and needed to meet life and to allow what life is trying to move into my ecosystem, into my world. And so this is just a different approach from how most leaders kind of navigate these decisions or we make pros and cons list, green flags and red flags. Should we go or should we stay? And we try to figure it out in our head. And from my experience, you already know the answer, but the answer has been buried under the weight of a lot of fear, a lot of uncertainty, a lot of grief, a lot of different internal discomfort that we haven't necessarily taken the time to feel into.
(19:02):
And so the advice, going back to your original question, for me, anytime I'm in a moment of pivoting, and especially if the answer isn't clear or if I feel kind of torn on which direction life is asking me to go, is it is absolutely monumentally important that you create enough stillness in your life to slow down, create enough stillness in your life. And in that stillness, what you want to do is you want to start paying attention. As you slow down, you want to start paying attention to the discomfort that begins to surface in your life. What's the fear that's hidden behind your need to make the perfect decision? What's the insecurities that you're afraid people are going to see or that will be exposed as you begin to transition? What's the self-doubt that's hiding behind this facade of being somebody that has it all together all the time, especially during uncertain times?
(19:59):
What we have to understand is that this deeper internal growth that is oftentimes hidden behind the facades and the pretenses or hidden behind the constant going and doing and trying to figure things out, that's the internal discomfort that when we are willing to face it, it becomes the catalyst that helps us evolve at an identity level so that we can become somebody new and that allows us to get a new life experience.
Scott Eckart (20:27):
So try this on for size. So I'm sitting down with a business owner and we've gone through the financials. We've gone through identifying new leaders and they get to the one yard line to use a little football thing here. So I'm not supposed to use all the time sports things, but we get to the very end of the process and they won't let go. So imagine my world here, and it really is about identity because everybody wanted on your calendar. Now nobody does. Everybody came to you for advice and counsel. Now, no one does. Your name was on the building. We might be changing that name, all of the things. And I was meeting with a group of minority owners and they were just complaining, complaining about the person who did. And I didn't end up working with them, thankfully, because they were pretty toxic.
(21:23):
And I said, "You do know that you're talking about taking away their reason to get up every morning." And they looked at me like, "What are you talking about? " And I said, "Until you deal with that, you're never going to get what you want, " which is all they really wanted was their money and they weren't going to talk about identity, they weren't. And this was a number of years ago. I wasn't really even equipped at the time to have the conversation, which is why I have dedicated my life to getting more into these kind of conversations because I realized that we were coming up with some really great plans and I was kind of frustrated with why people weren't signing the dotted line to go do it. And it was really about identity. It was really about, "I don't matter anymore." And I guess they really hadn't done the work.
(22:07):
So talk to these business owners, Caleb, talk to them about the process that probably needs to start maybe six months, a year prior to signing the documents.
Caleb Campbell (22:17):
Yeah. I just want to say I love that you have the awareness to see in a moment like that where you're never going to get this person to sign the dotted line because the entire identity is wrapped up and this is who they are. And so to walk away from this or to sign on the dotted line, that in so many ways, it feels like a death. There's a part of you that's dying. And essentially that is kind of what's happening. And I think what I really want to communicate, Scott, is it is 100% normal and very human of us to not want to walk away from that which is familiar. Sure. Even when that which is familiar is toxic as hell, when we are wired for survival. And so our nervous system, these neural preceptors are constantly analyzing our environment, analyzing our story, analyzing our ecosystem just to make sure that we are safe.
(23:15):
And the moment that we start moving towards this decision of parting ways or pivoting or stepping out of the role that we once have always known and stepping into something that's way more uncertain, our nervous system, these parts of us that are wired, I call them loyal soldiers, these loyal soldiers are inside of every single one of us and their main job is to ensure our survival. And so what they do as you start inching towards parting or inching towards walking away or letting go for this next thing, they're going to start creating a lot of tension and a lot of chaos, trying to get you to go back to the familiar, trying to get you to go back to the status quo, trying to get you to revert and make a decision that you once were completely sold on, but now you're having second thoughts.
(24:06):
And so what you have to understand is that when you are in this experience, your body, who you are, it loves you so much. It loves you so, so much that it wants to keep you in that which is safe and familiar, even if that means you are going to have to play small. So our job is to have the self-awareness, and I think that's a really big place to start. How do we deploy the self-awareness to notice when fear is running the show, to notice when these loyal soldiers are coming online and thwarting my decision to walk away by several different things. How many times have you been in a conversation with a leader, Scott, who has made a decision to walk away, and as they got closer to walking away, all hell started to fall apart in their life. And then they said, "Well, maybe this isn't the right decision."
Scott Eckart (24:58):
Well, the other thing that happens, you'll find this interesting, is that we identify second gen, this is particularly true for the legacy owner, and they come in, and this is actually happening right now. Gen two is doing such a great job. They get re-energized, and now I can't get rid of them because they're like, "Oh, this is actually a fun place to be. This is actually a really cool thing. This is kind of what I signed up for. " And the new leadership is like, they're kind of messing with my world and they promised to go and now they're not going to go. Very interesting. They get re-energized by gen two coming in and that's kind of a thing which tells me they haven't really, really let go. One question I really had for you is that why do some leaders and teams actually rise under pressure while others just burn out?
(25:47):
I mean, it's really interesting to see that there doesn't seem to be much of a middle ground there.
Caleb Campbell (25:53):
I've lived both of those experiences. And what I have come to realize, Scott, is that actually the difference between rising and being buried under today's pressure and tomorrow's uncertainty, the difference isn't skillset, the difference isn't talent, it isn't discipline and it's not even effort. I would say the difference, it comes down to a gap and the gap is the external demands on your life professionally and personally and your internal capacity to meet those demands. So most people today are being asked to carry what they don't have the capacity to hold. And we are moving in a world that is accelerating daily and that pressure is compounding daily. And so when we don't have the capacity to meet those demands or to carry, eventually the weight just begins to accumulate and then we get buried underneath it. And so the difference isn't about work ethic or discipline or effort or pushing through at all costs.
(26:52):
The difference is going to come down to those who really understand how do we build and deepen our internal capacity level. And from my experience, that isn't at the expense of life's pressure and discomfort. That is because of life's pressure and discomfort. We build the internal capacity in our lives to rise under pressure by learning how to reposition and posture ourselves to work with life's tension, to work with life's discomfort instead of avoiding it.
Scott Eckart (27:22):
So you're able to travel and bring this message. I know that you've spoken, I don't know, thousands of times. So that's the public piece. And then tell me about your curriculum, I guess. And I know you have a book, I believe, but do you do individual coaching? I mean, when you get into that, let's talk about that.
Caleb Campbell (27:46):
Yeah. So I love standing on a stage. I absolutely love working with leaders and teams and helping them rise under pressure when it matters the most. And I maybe love even more just working with individual leaders or working with individual teams who are in a transitional season of life. When I work with leaders and teams, it's usually, I do something called a VIP day and we get together for 10, 12, 14 hours in a day and we just do a complete deep dive on really understanding who you once were and who you're asked to become or who you're being asked to become. And more importantly, how do we navigate the space between what is and what will be? Because that's a very, in a lot of ways, it's a vitally important space, but it's also a sacred space. Ancient mystics would call it liminal space, and liminal space is the tension between what is and what will be.
(28:33):
And that space is full of uncertainty, unpredictability, and unknowing. And a lot of people try to sidestep it to rush their way through it or just to avoid it at all costs, whether they're going to distract their way through it or going to number their way through it. And my work is to help you actively participate with it because life is trying to give you a new experience, but before life can get you a new experience, you have to become somebody new and liminal space is the space where you become somebody new.
Scott Eckart (29:02):
So do you scare people with that though?
Caleb Campbell (29:04):
In what way?
Scott Eckart (29:05):
I mean, I can just see these driver-driver
Caleb Campbell (29:08):
Type
Scott Eckart (29:08):
People being like, "Oh dude, I am not going there and I ... No."
Caleb Campbell (29:15):
For me, what I love about using that language is the people who it's right for, it's kind of like an absolute hell yes, I'm ready to do that. I want to level up and I want to step into my fullest potential. And I know I'm at this season of my life of knowing that the external effort and the hustling, it's not sustainable. It's not going to ... While it has gotten me to where I am today, I know that it's not sustainable. And my approach right now is actually costing me not only at work, but it's burning me out to the degree where I have nothing left to give when I go home after a long day of work to the people that matter most. And so I have reached the limit of my identity and now I've got to become somebody new. And if you want to become somebody new, you send me a Quick email and I'll work with you on that one.
Scott Eckart (30:01):
So how bad does the pain need to be usually? I mean, are they
Caleb Campbell (30:06):
Reactive? Are they
Scott Eckart (30:07):
Reactive?
Caleb Campbell (30:08):
Yeah, I think it's both. That's a great question, Scott, because I think a lot of times we don't know what we don't know. And the pain is what creates the willingness to finally reach out. And then there's a lot of self-aware, emotionally affluent, purpose-driven leaders who kind of recognize, wait, I have reached the threshold and this next season of expansion in my life is going to be in direct relationship with this next season of internal expansion happening within me. And I'm willing to go here so that I can get there.
Scott Eckart (30:39):
So one of my greatest challenges, believe it or not, is getting time with business owner. I feel like I chase them and they're like, "Yep, we want to do this. We want to do it, " but they're working in their business and not on it. And they spend more time planning their next vacation than they do these very critical things. And they say they want to transition, they say they want this, they say they're burned out, they say they need to have a plan, but getting time like real time, I don't want their tight hours, I want their best hours where they have what I call clear space to think maybe for you it's liminal, I call it clear space. How do you get them? Do you go offsite? Do you, I mean, go to Turks and Cakos or someplace really cool. I mean, how do you get them to work on their business and not just in it?
Caleb Campbell (31:33):
Yeah, it's a great question. I think it really comes down. It's more nuanced than I like it to be. And usually when I have a conversation with somebody or have developed a small amount of time and built a relationship with somebody, the answer gets a little bit more clear on what's necessary and needed for them. And part of working with me, I've always resisted this idea of being a coach because listen, I'm not trying to convince you anything. I'm not trying to hold your hand through anything. I want to make sure that I'm presenting myself and my material in a way that when you say yes, it's time to go to work. And so I think for me it has always been for sometimes I can meet with somebody in a room at the hotel that they're staying at. For sometimes we go out in the woods and we do a VIP day out in the woods wandering through nature.
(32:26):
For other times, we go out to the desert because there's something about the desert that is a metaphor of what they're living into in their lives. And so for me, it's not just about the container necessarily, but it's about the emotional safety that they feel inside of the container so that they can begin to drop the facades, drop the guard and open up their hearts.
Scott Eckart (32:46):
And one of the things that I tell folks that, and sometimes this is why they don't want to work with me, is because we are going to talk about that. And I tell people, I'm not going to just focus on the value of what you own, but what you value. And if we can't talk about that, then I'm probably
Caleb Campbell (33:01):
Here. How do most people respond to that?
Scott Eckart (33:02):
They kind of look at me like a dog who hears a sound far off. They kind of cock their head and they're like, "Hmm, I'm not sure either what that means or if I'm really going to do that. " So I show them the survey. I show them and I said, "I'm not going to hold anything back. I'm happy to share with you the exact questions I'm going to ask because I'm not interested in ambushing you, but I really need to know what you care about because if I don't, then I can't do my best work." And so that has been kind of the area where they cross the line and decide whether or not they want to go there because say, "No, we're just going to keep it purely on the surface. We're going to just do the financial scot. I don't want you to go there." And I need to know that ahead of time.
(33:48):
And I've got plenty of people I can send them to if that's just what they want. But in a family owned business in particular, I deal with family owned, privately owned, whether it's family owned or not, this is their heart and soul. This is their child. They have done significant work to get this business where it is and they care deeply about their people. So to the extent where they've not done enough for themselves even. And now they're talking about leaving it in the hands of someone else. If they sell it to a third party, now the bad people come in and they're going to run it, they're not going to do it the way I do it and they're not going to keep everybody and they don't understand all the deals that I have with everybody and all of that. So it's very scary to them.
(34:33):
And so we've got to get into all of what I call the human dynamic of that, which leads me to another question that I have for you is how do you kind of future-proof the workforce? Oftentimes the leader won't allow NextGen to emerge and give them their due. I mean, the internet's a great example. AI is everywhere. It didn't exist 30 years ago. I just finished an interview where when they first launched, the CEO said, "Amazon just sold books at the time." Well, now everything has changed. So of course things change, right? So Gen two is they're just going to do it differently and you want them to, but to hold them back is selfish.
Caleb Campbell (35:12):
Yeah, it's a child's game.That's an egos game. And yeah, I am somebody that, I think my whole heart in life is that one day my ceiling becomes my children's floor. My ceiling becomes the floor of every single person that has been moved by me or influenced by me. And for the people that I have influenced in their lives, for them to go above and beyond me, for them to accelerate and succeed beyond me, holy shit, that's the greatest compliment that I could ever receive.
Scott Eckart (35:46):
Yeah. Say that again. I've never heard anybody say it quite like that. Say
Caleb Campbell (35:50):
That again. Yeah. So my ceiling, I want my ceiling to be other people's floor. Where I could only reach, that's where they're starting from. That's how we move towards evolution. That's how we move towards creating a new life experience where everybody can truly flourish. We can't keep playing these kids' games that are so rooted in fear and insecurity that if you succeed, it takes away from who I am. And if you go further along than I do, then it makes me less of a person. That's all ego's voice. And until you're willing to really, really evaluate that, I would actually question if you have the real right to call yourself a leader.
Scott Eckart (36:27):
Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing I often say too is if serving is beneath you, leadership is beyond you.
Caleb Campbell (36:36):
Yeah, way beyond you. Right?
Scott Eckart (36:38):
And I think that one of the most beautiful things that you can do is to set up Gen two to let them emerge because actually that makes you the stronger leader. So Caleb, I know that your book is in pre-order right now. Tell us about that. What's the title and what's it about?
Caleb Campbell (36:58):
The title of the book is called Unstriving, and it's essentially 12 Lessons on Authentic Success from a Recovering Overachiever. And this book is, it was really in a lot of ways written, not just to the younger version of Kayla, but to the millions of other people out there that have kind of moved their life forward, I guess you can say through the endless striving and the hustling harder and the doing more. But they're recognizing that while that version of who they are has gotten them to where they are today, it's not necessarily going to get them to where they want to be tomorrow. And a lot of people are kind of finding themselves waking up and the life that they have is not necessarily the life they imagined they would have despite giving it all that they have. And when you find yourself in this place where all of the endless striving in order to make your life happen isn't necessarily getting you to where you want to be, unstriving is the next journey that you're being invited on.
(37:57):
And so I'm helping people navigate the identity evolution of becoming somebody new so that you can create success in your life that doesn't just look good, but feels good to live.
Scott Eckart (38:09):
Okay, fantastic. So it's in pre-order, right? It
Caleb Campbell (38:11):
Is in pre-order. It comes out September 22nd.
Scott Eckart (38:14):
Nice. Very good. And the world right now is a very interesting place, I'll just say that, but I do believe that there's a lot of great stuff happening too. So as a business owner, which you are, what are you most excited about as you think about the next couple, three years?
Caleb Campbell (38:31):
I think what I'm most excited about is with the acceleration of AI, with the intensity of pressure that's compounding daily, with the growing uncertainty that we're all finding ourselves living into more and more, I think that there is going to be a massive pivot back to our humanity. I think we're going to wake up and really notice how damn important authenticity really is, how important it is to actually be able to be with yourself, to lean into the uncomfortable emotions in your life, to build some understanding on how to work through them. I think we're going to become increasingly more aware of how just vital community really is. And I think it's going to bring us back to the essence of who we really are. And that journey, while I believe it will be deeply uncomfortable at times, I think it's going just to create more inner integrity within us as leaders, as people, which is going to create more alignment within oneself.
(39:40):
And as we begin to live from greater alignment, I think we'll see a lot of the destruction and a lot of the pain course correct, and we'll see a lot of the misalignment that's now creating a lot of suffering in our world. I think there will be a little bit a move towards greater alignment externally as there is internally. And so I think it's a big hope, but I'm excited because I am seeing a lot of different leaders recognize the importance of this shift in consciousness, and I want to be a part of it.
Scott Eckart (40:09):
Not only just a lovely thought or hope, but it is actually something that I do see happening in various places. People are being told, "Lock up your phone, you can't bring it in here." I mean, they're creating areas and spaces where they can't do that. And I do think though that it can be more than a lovely hope, I think with intentionality and I think business leaders can have a lot to do with that. So cheers to that for sure. And it's something that certainly we can revisit. And I look forward to reading your book and continuing to track with things that are going on for you. So again, my thanks. I'm so grateful for this time and for you, sir, and what you're doing and your work is important. And thank you for spending time with us today and all of our listeners. So appreciate you so much.
Caleb Campbell (40:58):
Thanks, Scott. Appreciate the work you're doing and for having me today.
Scott Eckart (41:01):
During my conversation with Caleb, there are three key points that I want to look back on. Number one, take time away for thinking in a clear space. When in your week, month, or year, do you take the time to think and plan? Number two, be aware of burnout. You are worth caring about. Consider if you're rising under pressure or slowly burning out. And number three, set future leaders up for success. Your ceiling of success is their floor. Help them to grow to their full potential. Head to the show notes of this episode to find links to connect with Caleb. And remember, the future is bright. I'll see you next time. Thank you for listening today. If you like what you've heard, please join us in the Velocity Network and sign up at www.velocoaches.com, which is a gathering of entrepreneurs, business owners, and people who desire to learn more about running and owning a business.
(42:00):
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