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You are a business owner who wants to prioritize people and planet over profits (without sacrificing success). That can feel lonely—but you are not alone! Join host Becky Mollenkamp for in-depth conversations with experts and other founders about how to build a more equitable world through entrepreneurship. It’s time to change the business landscape for good!
Becky Mollenkamp (00:01.602)
Hi, Faith. I'm excited to chat. We had a little break last week where we didn't have a podcast, but that was because we were doing a focus group of sorts.
Faith Clarke (00:11.412)
Yeah, that was really, that was pretty incredible. You know, to kind of, you and I talked a lot about Invisible Labor and all the things, you know, personally, as well as what we've been seeing in some of these conversations, but to kind of just have other folks joining us and telling their own stories and thinking with us about how do we access our own wisdom about this and, you know, do something different for ourselves. It was pretty cool.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:20.546)
All summer. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:37.708)
Yeah, we were about 10 of us in the room. We called it The Weight We Carry and it was just an open invitation. Some of you listening may have been there, where we asked people to come and talk to us about invisible labor, how they're experiencing it, what it feels like, how it's showing up in their world. A lot of it was sort of our personal lives, which as we know are intertwined with our business lives, but there was also some discussion around business. And so we thought since we had that discussion, which is going to help inform a white paper that we're gonna work on, that we would maybe just...
recount, reflect on what we heard in that call because we think it may help other people feel seen and validated because if the 10 of us in the room were experiencing more than likely, many of you as well are feeling that. So I wonder, Faith, like when you reflect on that call last week, what's biggest sort of feeling that you came out of it with?
Faith Clarke (01:32.948)
felt really gratified. We talk about this like I was saying, but there's something about offering it to people and having them feel the beauty of the support that felt, yeah, it's not just me in my head, right? And I think that's part of seeing something you offer being mirrored back to you as goodness. it felt very reciprocal, it felt co-creative.
And that was really gratifying because for me, I know I can sometimes feel like a lone voice, you know, crying in the wilderness or there's a way that I, my own insecurity can show up and I'm just like, I'm saying this thing and people are rolling their eyes. So to have people to offer it as we were offering it and have people take it and then experience the goodness of it. That was really, it was.
It kind of came back to me as nourishment. So that was really good.
Becky Mollenkamp (02:33.134)
Yeah, I felt really inspired in a strange way. Like I kind of left that call feeling. I think it's because it felt nourished is a nice word. Like I felt very seen and held and just really inspired by the way people were putting words to this thing that we all experience. Because the first exercise in this was something you wanted to do was like having storytelling around this. So we invited them to go into two rooms.
and they were to work together to kind of talk about their experiences with Invisible Labor and then come back and sort of tell a story about that, what they discovered together. And the first group really took it literally and did a bang up job of like coming back and talking about this woman, fake yet very relatable woman who's like the superhero doing it all and this feeling of her being able to finally acknowledge that.
and release some of that and realize the world wasn't going to fall apart if she did. And if it did, it's not hers to hold anyway. And just the way they told that story was like I was my jaw was almost on the floor. was like, wow, that was what amazing folks to come up with that kind of beautiful story. And I felt I just felt so inspired by their creativity and the just the way they put words to this experience that we so many of us feel.
Faith Clarke (03:53.81)
Yeah, yeah. I felt that when they did that storytelling, but maybe even going into it, part of what I really wanted was them to experience the power of the co-creation, you know? And I think, because I, I've offered this in different, you know, different group settings that I've offered, whether it was, know you helped me with better ways to learn together and stuff. And part of what I've discovered in group, group transformation.
is that the transformation almost has a life of its own when it is created by the people who want the transformation. And so part of what felt really good was it almost like they just trusted us and took the instruction, even though it might have felt different from what they've experienced in other similar settings. And they leaned into the instruction to kind of make up this story based on their own experiences of their own wisdom.
So was a story that reflected the collective wisdom. And I think that there's something really powerful when we think all the way back that so many of us historically are from oral traditions where that's what happened. The stories that show up that were passed on from generation to generation are stories that reflect collective wisdom. And so it just felt powerful for a group of women to be harnessing our own collective wisdom in this way. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:18.102)
Yeah, no, I agree. really loved it. And because this wasn't offered up as a common and we're going to impart wisdom, right? It was really offered up as we're going to discuss this together. And I think that there is something really beautiful in that because I do think it means that you feel so validated because it's not feeling like I'm coming and you're going to tell me how I can fix what's wrong with me. But it's more about we can all share and understand that this is so common and
And I loved someone in the room also brought up like, we need to make sure that when we talk about these issues that we're addressing racialized existence as a part of this, as a layer to what's happening, right? Because it's also, think, helping for people to feel and see and release guilt of understanding, these are systemic issues. It's not an individual issue. And if every one of us in the room is feeling this, it can't be because I'm personally failing, right? There's something bigger happening here. So I thought that was really lovely as well.
Faith Clarke (06:04.2)
Yeah.
Faith Clarke (06:15.412)
Yes, yes. And for it to be felt and understood in a like a body way. Like we know this in our brains, but there's a way that together as we were relating around it was felt in people's bodies and yeah, the truth of it.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:21.454)
This is...
Becky Mollenkamp (06:29.166)
Yeah, people did mention that. I feel like we heard some quite a bit actually about sort of somatic experiences of like when we ask what an invisible labor is, a lot of that was like how I experience it in my body. And then talking about ways to start to release some of that, there was a lot of that embodied experience and that's what was great. One of my favorite quotes that I heard come out of this was, I refuse to participate in my sacrifice. That one, because there were a few moments where I was just sort of like almost felt my breath leave, right? Where I was like, wow. And that was one of those where I was like, yeah.
What are the ways that we are doing that and where do I want to release that? That was beautiful.
Faith Clarke (07:04.85)
Yeah, I mean, think that when we're in moments like these where we're talking about common themes, it's always almost uncanny to listen for what's in the collective wisdom. Because remember, when Giovanni and I were talking, that was part of what she said. And yet here it is showing up again that I'm not going to. And I think another member of the group said, I have to listen to my body's messages before it starts to scream.
And I was like, one, my goodness, right? So many of us have this wisdom from our bodies. that's kind of, know, Hey, hey, listen to me until it starts yelling. And then we have to pay attention. She's like, I want to pay attention before the screaming. And was like,
Becky Mollenkamp (07:32.236)
Yes, yes.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:47.918)
Yeah, there was a mom in the room, I think not all, but many of the folks in the room were parents. And one of them was taught, we were talking a little bit about what are some of the things that are helping to release some of this invisible labor or reduce. And one of them was mentioning something around getting kids scheduled tasks, having things figured out so that they're doing those things. And even with you, you were like, I'm done with faith Uber, right? I'm not driving my kids. You have adult children, so it's different than.
the other person had younger kids. then there was also, another piece I think was really lovely was just that, again, the validation of, and these aren't just simple fixes because then she's, the same mom was like, but then how do I let go of the having to remind, right? Cause there's that, it's like even in the releasing of the invisible labor, there's still sometimes there's these, there's so many layers to it that you begin to realize like it's not some simple fix and it's not like an easy thing to release and you just met, you know, clap.
snap your fingers and it's gone. And I appreciate that too, because I think too often we live in this world where there's these like one, two, three fixes, simple solutions, right? We live in this capitalist world that wants everything to be easy and quick. And I think it's important for us to be in rooms of people saying like, yeah, this is hard. There are things I can do and there's still even more challenge, right? That it's not just simple, because I think that continues to validate for us too, that I can sign up for all the one, two, three solutions I want, but it doesn't always mean they're going to work.
Faith Clarke (09:14.086)
In fact, they rarely do work, right? It's just, you but there's something there about the, yeah, how do I get rid of the reminding? And also, how do I invite not just the kids into this? And also, there's a way that as we went into some of the solutions, we recognize, releasing invisible labor is its own work. And it's often after we work on our awareness,
Becky Mollenkamp (09:16.333)
right.
Faith Clarke (09:42.452)
And after we kind of figure out, yeah, this is a piece and that's a piece that others can take and I won't be kind of taken for granted in this way. Then there is the, but what happens if others can't hold it or don't hold it? And then am I going to now put myself in the place in my house? I call it executive functioning mind for the whole household. Am I going to now be the, I'm going to hold the labor now of the whole structure while I'm saying, you do this, you do that, right?
And even I know I mentioned the discomfort with releasing and watching things crash and watching consequences play out for other people who I love, who I don't want to have consequences. And like I could easily do it, but it's, it's, need to practice the releasing of the labor for everyone because invisible labor harms us all. You know, and so, um, it was, it was beautiful to be able to be nuanced as well, you know, in this whole.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:35.756)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:40.588)
Right, well, and then there was another invitation from you where it was like, what's the medicine that I need here? And I think some of it, we discovered people talking about shame. That was one, right? Being able to release that shame and all the judgment on myself and the guilt, needing things to be perfect. Like there was a lot of stuff sort of in that same bucket that came up for people where so much of the medicine felt like it's not just as simple as I need to.
delegate, I need to offload, like, right? not these tasks go away, but more of the internal work that needs to happen to be able to do those things. And I love that people recognize that, right? So wasn't when we were asking for the medicine, no one was saying, well, I just need to like find somebody to, you know, delegate this to. was everyone recognized there's this internal battle from all of the conditioning that I've received that I have to fight.
Faith Clarke (11:16.296)
Absolutely.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:34.584)
For a lot of it was shame. But I know another one that you found really interesting was, and I mentioned this too for myself, which is trust. And it was interesting, there were several people that were like, yeah, yeah. And I know that was something you were sort of sitting with since then.
Faith Clarke (11:40.498)
Mm-hmm.
Faith Clarke (11:44.649)
Yeah.
Faith Clarke (11:48.276)
Yeah, because I think that it wasn't just trust. I know you said that there was a way that you needed to learn to trust that the system, your partner, kids, trust that your own releasing of the invisible label would be okay. So trust that they can hold it, you know? And I was like, yeah, but this system has failed us so much in terms of like, it's proven itself to be untrustworthy. And as represented by these people that allow us to continue.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:55.214)
Alright, my partner.
Faith Clarke (12:18.258)
with the excess of work and not seeing it, their own conditioning to not see it, right? So the system has not been trustworthy in offering us care. And then how do we then ask for the system to become more trustworthy? And a lot of people in the room talked about this double accountability. So I was just mapping the connection of building trustworthiness in our micro systems that could be in our homes.
Becky Mollenkamp (12:28.056)
Yeah.
Faith Clarke (12:46.16)
in our businesses, our small communities, building that trustworthiness requires this double accountability that people talked about. Because I need to be accountable to the releasing and the people in the environment need to be accountable to the seeing and to the holding. And then we need to all be accountable for the repair that's needed because we're all going to be flaky on both sides. I'm going to grab things that I shouldn't be grabbing and the system will automatically revert.
to its old way and people are going to, yeah, not see and forget and not hold their end. So I think that the whole trust is an emotion, but trust is a practice and requires accountability. Trust building is a practice and it requires accountability to like anything else to make it happen.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:31.575)
Yes.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:39.81)
Yeah, well, and kind of related to accountability is community because when we have it, we can hold ourselves accountable. It's also helpful to have community that helps us with that accountability. And when we're talking about the medicine, one of those big pieces of that was the collective aspect of releasing invisible labor, experiencing and releasing invisible labor. Because I think one of the big parts too that I think what a lot of people will have walk away from that front with.
is again, that feeling that we sort of said at the beginning of the validation of the knowing you're not alone, recognizing that everyone's kind of going through this. So it's not a personal feeling. And then as you're thinking about the medicine, when we know that, think when we, going back to that shame, when we sit in it thinking it's just us, I'm failing. That's why I'm feeling overwhelmed by all the things. And I think so often we're made to believe that like if I just had a better system of organization, if I was just more motivated, if I was all the things.
I wouldn't be experiencing this, right? Being in a space like this, recognizing, no, everyone I'm talking with, everyone who's holding a marginalized identity, everyone who's being perceived as a woman in the world, like we're all carrying all this invisible labor. When I'm able to do that, then I can release that shame and then ask for help, then ask for support, then ask for just even love. And I think that's part of what came out of that room was like, if we're all going through this, then how do we?
collectively help each other to provide care, to provide support, to resources, the things that we need so that none of us has to be feeling this way. And I don't know if it was you or somebody else who said in the group, but somebody said, when you belong, I think it might've been you, when you belong, because you talk about belonging, when you belong, the community cares for your needs. And I think that's right. I think that was part of what I feel like a lot of us are going to leave that room with is that feeling of.
If I have the right community, if I can find my community, if I find those people who are also talking about this, who are also willing to be a little bit vulnerable and share, then I don't have to be alone in it. And that changes your relationship with it.
Faith Clarke (15:45.08)
Absolutely. I think one of things that I love about community is that it helps community holds you through all the stages of this process of transformation. Because as you said, some of this work is internal and internal stuff is sneaky stuff. It comes back up in every stage. And when you're out there trying to put your Google calendar up where you're scheduling the tasks for other people to do.
There's your internal voice is going to start speaking about why people aren't going to do it or whatever it is. And I found, and I have a client that I'm walking through a process similar to what we discovered in this group. The awareness piece and the inner work and then the practical pieces. As I walk them through it, whenever we meet, we have to go back to the inner work. So we will look at something that's not happening. And then we just backtrack.
to some inner peace. And what I noticed is that because as a group, it's a team, organizational team, they trust each other. Because they trust each other, then they can call each other on what the voices are saying. And that these voices are speaking something different than what we all agreed was goodness and restorative practice for us. So was like, you know, one of the people in a...
meeting I was in recently, she says, yeah, it's because I'm lazy. And other people was like, no, you're not. And so as a community, when we find our collective, we can help each other reprogram from the collective conditioning that makes us so susceptible to invisible labor. And then we can help each other come up with strategies that aren't harming us.
Because so many times we come up with, you know, the perfect whatever, we're going to get slack and we're going to set up channels and we're, and you're like all this extra work and, know, the wisdom of the group can be, no, there's an easy way for you to release this labor. And then the, you know, the wraparound holding that communities can do. I, I am, you know, I'm a fan. Belonging is a core need that we have. And I think that we can only belong in the community. Yes, there is a self belonging, but.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:54.412)
Yeah, of course. Yeah.
Faith Clarke (18:03.976)
Just when a community holds you as you are, there's something radically healing and transformational about that.
Becky Mollenkamp (18:11.158)
Yeah, I again, I left that experience last week feeling, just, boy, it's hard to come up with the right word. I need to work on my vocabulary to come up the right word for feeling held. I don't know what's the emotion that comes with that, with peaceful, with calm, with, yeah, but feeling really held. And I think that's important because that does shift things, right? Even if it's subtle, even if it's just internal, but the internal work is huge. But speaking of community, I think,
because of what came out of that and what we both feel very strongly about community and this collective idea around care and releasing invisible labor. We're gonna be offering a community or a group, a community program around this very topic, which is what a lot of this has been leading up to and all these conversations that we've shared on the podcast that we've been having that we just had within this small focus group. All of that was helping us get to a place of.
best understanding what people really need around this issue in a way that we can show up to help with that, right? And so on November 4th and 18th, we're gonna have two separate calls and then there's gonna be some support in between those calls and maybe even after to help people with this issue, starting with awareness around the issue, because again, that's such a big part of it. And then thinking about actually planning, what does it look like? And again, not the one, two, three, one size fits all three-step solution, but the
What works for you with the, like you said, the collective saying, we've witnessed you, that may not be the thing that works for you, even if it works for me, let's talk about what works for you. So coming up with a plan that you can begin to implement to release some of this invisible labor. So we're really excited about that, that's coming up and we wanted to share about it here.
Faith Clarke (19:58.066)
Yeah, think one of the things that really matters to me is the fundamental level of exhaustion that so many people, but women in particular, are experiencing right now across the board. Yeah, right? Just yeah. And this exhaustion, in the middle of this exhaustion, we also feel unproductive.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:14.242)
Hands raised. Me.
Faith Clarke (20:23.666)
So the judgment, the shame, and so even though a lot of us may not have called it invisible labor, there isn't a, like it's phenomenal right now how many, every time I turn around and say, how are you doing tired? How are you doing tired? Right, it is everywhere. And then when we start to peel back what's making women tired, there's so many details, it's mind blowing. But systemic issues cannot be addressed in an individual way.
Not to mention, I think I said this, we talked about this one time, that one of the biggest costs of all the invisible labor that women are holding is our health. And as a woman in my 50s now I'm just like, wait, wait, hang on, wait. That we kind of go and do and I'm not even aware of what some of these costs are to us. And so part of what I'm hoping that we will help ignite into whoever joins us for those.
this little container that this pop-up community that we're creating is the commitment to not sign up to no longer walk yourself to the sacrificial block, but also the support with the inner work needed that you can sustain this afterwards, after we're not together again, although Becky and I will always be here, we'll talk to you at any point. And then also to have the benefit of the collective wisdom on implementing this for yourself because
We can't implement this on our own. The system has the game board stacked against us. We cannot. We will slide back down to the bottom of the hill. And so, but together, we absolutely can shift systemic patterns, retrain our own minds, and create systems that help us move the needle forward while we hold each other accountable. I'm looking forward to just this, however many of us get together.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:00.099)
Yes.
Faith Clarke (22:17.428)
because I have some patterns I want to release while we're holding the container, we'll also be releasing some patterns and receiving the support of the collective that, you know, the container that's created.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:30.382)
Yeah, yes, all of that. So great, because I agree with you on that piece, like the implementation, sending you out to implement on your own is with a great plan. I think we can all say we've experienced that it doesn't work and we think, isn't it working? And what helps is I need that space to go back to the people who know, who understand, who are gonna, with love, continue to make sure that I'm going down that right path. So I love that and I think that doing that with other people who are committed to the same kind of journey.
It's just so valuable. And I think especially important is, most especially for our folks who hold marginalized identities or multiple overlapping marginalized identities to recognize that this is a container that recognizes those, understands those, honors those, because I think too often so many of the containers that we see out there around similar sorts of things, there isn't that understanding and recognition and care. And then those programs don't work for so many people.
who don't fit whatever the mold is of the person who's holding the container. So I just think it's really important for us to acknowledge that as well for folks who care. And I think most of us should, I we all should care about those things. So I think that's important. And we're trying to keep it affordable because we're not wanting to create something that people can't do because.
I know, like we said, so many of us are overwhelmed. And in addition to that, I think money is one of those things right now, in particular, with the economy and the world the way it is, the dumpster fire of a world we're living in. I think people are much more conscious around money at the moment. And I understand that, and I need to be as well. And so I think adding the weight of can I afford this only is adding to that invisible labor, right? And that efforting. So it's under $200, $199 for these two. And they're in-depth calls. These are gonna be two hour calls, like,
we're really going to get into meet here along with some additional support. So and you're going to have a community of people that you're meeting and being in space with. So keeping that affordable as well.
Faith Clarke (24:28.98)
Yeah. And I think when you talk about the plans not working, if you have multiple marginalized identities, I think what happens is that the plans are agnostic as if the barriers that the majority of people in the world, can we act like, you know, the multiple marginalized identities, some few people, just, you know, few one-off people, when the reality is that the only people that the plan works for are people with only power identities, know, privileged entities, fully.
And so the plans don't work because they don't integrate my current daily lived experience. And part of what we want to do is deeply honor. What we will be doing is deeply honoring the lived experiences of just regular humans, which means people are under resourced. The more marginalized identities you have, people are at risk, the more identities you have. And how do we shift the invisible labor so that we reduce your risk?
so that we reduce your health risk and your financial risk and your emotional risk, right? So the plan is not going to be cookie cutter because your life isn't cookie cutter. And then, you know, and my life isn't cookie cutter. So it's this willingness to, to create together what will work with eyes wide open. You know, as Jay said, it's invisibilized labor. So we're going to open our eyes and we're going to see it. And then we're going to plan with what we see in mind. And yeah, and I think the container, as much as we know, we're going to do stuff on calls. I know.
that the magic does happen on calls, but also happens in what we create in between. And so for the month that we're holding this container or this three and a half weeks, whatever the length is, it's going to be time where together as a pop-up community, we're moving the needle on this. So whatever it is that people need in between, whether that's a vox or swapping some voice notes with us or hopping on a Zoom call with us or texting or whatever.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:22.742)
and sending an email exactly.
Faith Clarke (26:24.708)
Yeah, you know, it's just going to be we're meeting and we're doing this thing and then whatever we need as community, we're going to offer it to each other. And yeah, and we're saying at the end of this time, especially going into the holiday season, it's a grand time for labor, you know, and going into this holiday season, we want to let liberation be the thing that we're claiming for ourselves as our gift. So.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:41.43)
Isn't that right? Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:51.582)
I love that. And yes, thanks for bringing up the holiday piece because that's so important because we mentioned this together, but we didn't even talked about it here, which is like, I know that I and probably you and most of us see our labor demands skyrocket between sort of, you know, Halloween and the end of the year through holidays with family gift buying, you know, food planning.
you know, schools being out and kids being home. Like there's just all of these things that seem to stack up on ourselves, especially those of us who are maybe parents or whatever. But I mean, for all of us, think, work often there's a lot more work breaks. And so suddenly you're having to cover for someone else or, you you can't get ahold of people you need.
Faith Clarke (27:33.65)
Not to mention, the work people also want to do holiday events and you feel like you have to be there. So then there's holiday late night events and all these other things mixed in with the other. When my kids were little, then there were holiday concerts. So there's a holiday event here, then there's a holiday concert and there's just so many things to navigate.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:40.589)
Yes!
Becky Mollenkamp (27:47.596)
Bye.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:52.782)
I think most of us are going to feel that where we feel like I can feel my brain start to do the thing it does, the turning of like, did I remember this and I got to do that and don't forget this and that and that, right? And that is what we're talking about when we talk about that invisible labor. It's that stuff that is those expectations on us or the things that we want to do and tend to do, whatever it is. And then it's all stacking up and you can feel your shoulders get heavy with the weight of each of these new things being introduced to the pile.
And so the goal is to be able to identify all of that because so much of it goes, the reason we say invisible, so much of it goes unnoticed not only by other people, but often by ourselves. We just discount it as the stuff that I'm supposed to do, I have to do, know, it's adulting or whatever the thing is. And we just dismiss it as just this, like, it's just the cost of being alive, right? Without really acknowledging it. And so we want to, like you said, open our eyes to all of this stuff and then think about plans for where can we make shifts so that we are either
just even the act of honoring it is huge. So maybe there are things we can't take off the plate, but it's that recognizing it, honoring it, seeing it for what it is, which is that it is that labor. And then where we can making changes to how do we reduce that load and make things feel better for ourselves. So that's what all of this program is about. And I think you're right, the timing couldn't be better because the hope is that before American Thanksgiving, before the set of typical American holidays come in, people have...
that plan, are feeling a lightening of that load. They're going into it feeling more empowered to set boundaries, to say no, to come up with a way to manage all of these things. So I think it's great timing.
Faith Clarke (29:32.818)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:34.382)
Yeah, anything else you wanna add, we're gonna, oh, I guess I should say feministfounders.co.com. Com is for sale for like $6,000, so sorry, .co, we're not buying that. So feministfounders.co.group. I will also put it in the show notes or the description wherever you're watching this so that you can just click the link. But that is where we'll put the details for how to sign up. We're taking people in now, $199. There's a lot of support. Basically, your November will be about Invisible Labor.
releasing it, loving yourself through it, finding community around it, our support in all the ways. So if you're interested in that, that's where you can go. And the white paper, I guess we should mention that before we go. Well, if you are someone who holds, well, anyone really, for business owners, I mean, I think the white paper is specifically around business owners. So if you're not a business owner, this isn't for you. But if you are a business owner, we are asking people to complete a survey.
It's not super long, but there's some depth in it because it's not just about demographic stuff. This is about your experience. We want to hear about your lived experience of invisible labor. We want to be able to include you in the white paper. It's going to be anonymized. You don't have to worry about us using your name. But we want to create these little vignettes of people's experiences. We want to understand.
what are some of the through lines of what people are experiencing? Because we are wanting to put together this white paper first for us, but it's something we're both, think, really excited about. So I will drop the link for that also into the show notes. If you're interested in taking a few minutes to do that for us, it would be a huge help because we'd like to get, we don't need a huge sample, but we would like a decent sample of people to pull from. So what you think about the white paper or anything else that you want to mention,
Faith Clarke (31:18.516)
No, I think that if people want to participate in the white paper or if they've already done the survey and they want to contribute to the other part of the conversation, because we did the first part, which is the survey, the second part was like this group discussion. If they want to contribute, they should let us know. Because if we get enough people who want to contribute to that part, we'll pull another group together. It was like a focus group, but not quite.
content, the data that will be in the white paper is going to be a survey and then this data from the focus group. So if you wanted either one, we are here for it, but definitely give us the survey information so that we can kind of do some analysis on that and craft out the stories as of 2025 for us, not, you know.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:56.995)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:03.798)
Yeah. The best way to get ahold of us is because I don't want to put our emails in the show notes because then they will get scooped up and we'll start getting a bunch of junk emails. I already do because of that. But if you are watching this on Substack or in or a Substack subscriber, that's probably the best way to reach out to either Faith or I. We're both on Substack. So you can just send us a message there and we'll see that and we'll let you know if we have enough interest to put together another one of these groups, because that would be amazing. If you're not a Substack subscriber, that's really hard to say.
If you're not, that link will be in the show notes. Go sign up because we share these videos there as well as on YouTube and on the podcast platforms and a lot of other stuff. we want to make sure you're getting our newsletter as well. So make sure you're signed up there and then you can reach out to us there. Well, we're very excited. Thank you to everyone who participated. You know who you are. Your contributions in that room were very much appreciated and valued. Yeah, beautiful. And we're excited to host this space for people and hope that you'll join us in it.
Faith Clarke (32:56.404)
Thank you.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:03.778)
We're kicking off in just a couple of weeks, make sure you take a look and sign up if you're interested.
Faith Clarke (33:10.807)
Yeah.