Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Jeremy: Gotta ask, Kurt Russell, cool?
Matt: Oh yeah.
Oh, are you kidding me?
He's fucking Kurt Russell.
Jeremy: it would be disappointing
if you said no, but I
Ben: of thing where I'm
like, if he's not cool, lie
Matt: I would lie to you.
Yeah, no,
Ben: but like, but like,
I, I, yeah, please lie.
Jeremy: Good evening, and welcome
to Progressively Horrified, the
podcast where we hold horrors to
progressive standards nobody agreed to.
Tonight, we're talking about the
seasonal slasher that started the
whole game, the proto slasher, some
people even call it Black Christmas.
I am your host, Jeremy Whitley,
and with me tonight, I have a
panel of cinephiles and cnobites.
First, they're here to challenge
the sexy werewolf, sexy vampire
binary, my co host, Ben Kahn.
Ben, how are you tonight?
Ben: Good, you know, having gone into
this movie blind beyond what we saw in
the insane 2020 remake with the devil
cult you My reaction to this movie in
four words, Margot Kidder, holy shit.
I didn't even recognize that it was
her, like, I didn't know she was in it.
I'm honestly not familiar with
enough of her work to have, like,
really recognized her on the spot.
But she was on screen for 30
seconds and I had to stop and look
it up because I just knew, Well,
I must know her from somewhere.
There's no way this level
of screen presence didn't go
on to become a huge thing.
Jeremy: fantastic.
Uh, yeah, and the cinnamonroll of
Cenobites, our co host, Emily Martin.
How are you tonight, Emily?
Emily: calling from inside the house
Jeremy: Oh, good.
Emily: Is this
Jeremy: Well, it's really gonna
challenge my internet connection that
Emily: Yeah, sorry, I'm I'm right
next to you I'm right behind you
Jeremy: Oh no.
Ben: This was before A Stranger
Calls, but I think A Stranger Calls,
Matt: it came out.
Yeah.
While they were filming this,
Ben: oh,
Jeremy: be wild.
Matt: some parallel development there.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Matt: I jumped in before my intro, I'm
Jeremy: it's alright.
Oh, I was gonna say, and you just
heard him, our guest tonight.
The writer of, several of both
my favorite comics and yours.
And the brand new show, Monarch
Legacy of Monsters, which just started
coming out when you're hearing this.
It's Matt Fraction.
Matt, so glad to have you!
Matt: Hi, thanks for having me.
And there were many
writers, I was one of them.
But there's me and co created
with a fella named Chris Black.
Who did, uh, some, uh, Star Trek.
He did, um, the Kirkman show, the
Paul Zaa book, it was on Cinemax.
Uh, cut this.
Oh fuck.
Let me start that over.
Hi.
Thanks.
Yes, lovely to be here.
Jeremy: know the one you're
talking about, but I cannot
remember the name of it either.
Ben: Matt, thank you so much for
being on, this is awesome and a
wonderful movie to talk about tonight,
Emily: and Thank
you for writing some Godzilla.
Matt: Oh yeah.
Well, I was one, one of, one of many,
but, uh, we, we had a amazing group of
people working on the show, and I can't
believe that it's out in the world.
I literally can't believe
it's out in the world.
It had been a project I've been
working on for five years almost
to the day that this podcast drops.
And that the, that the show premiered.
It's it's crazy.
And, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's great.
And I hope you dig it.
Ben: thank you for Godzilla, and thank
you for some of my favorite comics ever,
Emily: Yeah, we're getting thanks today I
Matt: that makes sense.
We're right about that
time, uh, time of the
Ben: exactly, Wow, this was, like, I'm not
surprised that this movie and, you know,
Halloween and, Stranger Calls, I feel
like they were all probably pulling from,
like, a lot of the same influences and a
lot of that same, like, the news going on,
because I feel like, I have no historical
basis, I'm just basing this off vibes.
It seems like 70s is when crime got weird,
Emily: was I think in the 70s it
was starting to really like the
serial killer thing was starting
to really hit Mainstream media.
Ben: as, like, a new phenomenon,
and people didn't, like, it really
freaked people the fuck out.
Emily: yeah.
Matt: like horror came home, right?
Like it wasn't, you didn't have
to be in a, in a, in a Moorish
castle or, or whatever it was.
It was suddenly Haddonfield or, you
know, I can't remember, you know,
Toronto, wherever they were, wherever
they were pretending this was.
Emily: Oh,
Jeremy: yeah.
Ben: idea that, like, that level of just,
monster that usually, like, that level
of mon of monstrous actions, you know,
you usually ascribe to, oh, well, they
have to be a vampire or a werewolf or
some sort of monster, is now just, well,
I guess in real life, sometimes you don't
know who, at any time, a flip could just
switch and now they're a murder monster.
Emily: There was a lot
of psycho in this too.
There was like a lot of
Hitchcock.
and
Ben: Especially with all the POV.
Emily: yes.
Jeremy: of wild to me.
I think the first time I watched
it, I think my reaction to it
was like, why is any of this
happening like this in this order?
Like, it just seems like,
was like, do they not know?
Oh, no, they don't.
They're inventing this as they go along.
Like, you know, the slasher
is not a thing at this point.
They're just sort of putting it together.
And, Bob Clark honestly would
not like Be a horror guy.
He's, he's going to be
doing a lot of other stuff.
So like, this is very like,
making the road as they go.
And it was, I think watching
it a second time, I have sort
of more appreciation for that.
And sort of like, that this is a
movie that's just sort of, figuring
all of the stuff out that we like,
take for granted as they're doing it.
Matt: Yeah.
It's inventing a grammar, you
know, kind of moment to moment.
Ben: I will say, I know I've been
doing this show too long, because I
got so excited when Art Hindle, star
of The Brood, showed up in this movie.
And
Matt: Also, also how, you
know, another way that you know
that they shot it in Toronto
Ben: oh yeah, yup, yup.
and
Matt: and that building, that building,
the cop station shows up in all kinds of.
Movies, A 55 something center.
I can't remember.
It's a, it's a famous, it's like
Community Center Toronto, but it's been
in a lot of movies and you will see it
now that you've seen it like that weird
kind of, you're, it, it, every time
it pops up, you'll like, oh, oh, oh,
Emily: It's funny
because it's so small.
Yeah.
Like it's such a, it's a weird, very
kind of cramped environment in there, but
Ben: I did really like this kind
of Toronto college town vibe to it.
Matt: It's such a cozy movie, right.
Ben: Yeah!
Emily: it kind of
Matt: Sweaters and a fireplace and like
Emily: Those scarves though.
Matt: warm drinks.
Ben: houses are
like, these fraternity houses
are all, like, walking distance
away from each other and stuff,
Matt: Yeah.
Yeah.
And like the, and like, and
just like even, you know,
before the first time I ever.
I saw this even before I kind
of knew anything about anything.
That first shot of the sorority house.
I'd like, Oh man, this, they,
this is, they shoot Christmas,
like a Christmas story.
Emily: Yeah.
Matt: Like, and it's, it's makes sense.
If it's, it's Reginald Morris, it's
the same guy that shot Christmas story.
It's Bob Clark or the same director.
And like, it's the same, this
is what Christmas looks like.
It's this, it could happen.
It, he shoots the sorority house the
same way he shoots Ralphie's house.
And it's just like, just
immediately, Oh, it's Christmas put
on sweater and lower the lights.
And yeah, it's, it's.
Ben: It looks like the place a thousand
lifetime movie, career obsessed city
gals have fallen in love with the
hunky, small town, like, in manager.
Emily: They try, those
movies try to look like this.
Like, there is a, there is a texture,
and it might be the film, it might be
the, the lighting saturation, I don't
know, but like, there is a particular
texture, it's probably his film.
Ben: Speaking of texture, and
Matt: Well, but also, but it's
not like, I mean, I think it's
certainly the grain, right?
It's certainly the cameras and
the lenses and all that stuff.
But at the same time, like, like,
no, everyone's wearing sweaters
and turtlenecks and scarves.
Like there's, you know, there's
a, there's everything is knit.
And, and, yeah, not to, not to,
to crib too much from with Gorley
and Rust, but like, it's cozy.
It's like the coziest horror movie.
Ben: and there's like, there's
warm lighting, too, everywhere.
Emily: Yeah, and there's a lot of
like, there's, it's, it is cozy.
The, the spaces are kind of, they're not
too small, but they're smaller than you
usually see in a lot of, modern movies.
Everything is like super wide, like 0.
5, whatever.
And now we're seeing these small spaces.
And then also, one of the things that
I noticed about the movie in terms of
space is that you have all this weird
cross talk as if you're looking at.
A scene from the vantage from next
to the person who's talking which
unfortunately, um, the peacock
version didn't have subtitles.
So I, I had to guess a few of the
things that were being said, but
most of it, I managed to understand,
but it does help that, that coziness
factor and like, sort of the.
The textural factor of it,
Matt: It's got that Robert
Altman thing, right?
Or it's, it's everybody's, it's,
it's a room full of eight women.
They're all talking at the
same time and like, great go.
It feels real.
It feels lived in,
Ben: there's
Jeremy: also, I think, part of what,
like, you can tell Margot Kidder is
a star because whenever she starts
talking, like, you're looking at her,
like, as compared to everybody else.
You're like, no, I'm,
what is she talking about?
I'm, I'm interested in her.
Ben: her whole like fellatio joke with
Nash Nash, by the way It feels like
he's only qualified to be a cop and
like the Dick Van Dyke show when I was
Jeremy: Or, you know, real life.
Emily: Yeah, and yet to real
Ben: in real.
Oh, yeah I was just looking the
laughing so hard and Margot Kidder
just fucking with Nash like I like
You know, you're so right, like, it's,
the scene just stops and just focuses,
like, it can't look away whenever,
like, she's, that screen presence,
she's got the rizz, as the kids say.
Emily: I'm sad that she
wasn't the final girl.
Matt: yeah, you know, it's,
like, it's so perfectly cast,
Ben: Yeah.
Matt: And, and she, and that,
like, she's playing the character
that sucks the air out of the room
and racks focus onto herself and
demands everyone pays her attention.
You know, I love her, like,
alcoholic breakdown on the couch.
Ben: Oh, that was
Matt: And it's sort of like the
only, you know, I I wish she
had lived to the next afternoon.
Cause I think the morning after where
she realized, you know, I, I wish
there was the scene of her realizing
everything she had said and done,
Emily: Yeah.
Matt: It's, but it's such that
thing of like, Oh, you're 20.
You think, you know, everything,
Jeremy: Was I laying on the
couch absolutely pissed out
of my mind reading Playboy?
Is that what I was
Ben: Margot Kidder in this movie is
What Woody Allen thinks he's writing his
love interest as, but doesn't actually
have the nerve to actually write.
Emily: You know?
Matt: Well, she's too old for one.
Ben: Yes!
Emily: But yeah, yeah, nice.
Nice.
Jeremy: Uh,
Matt: Isn't it weird how
nobody in Manhattan ever goes,
Oh, geez, Alvy, she's 14.
Ben: very weird!
Matt: these sophisticated New
Yorkers, no one points out that like,
Uh, geez, Alvy, your girlfriend's
the only one that's got homework.
Ben: Uh, this movie, our
final girl is Is it Husey or
Matt: Hussie.
Hussie.
Yeah, Olivia
Ben: Just Olivia Hussey is our
final girl which makes sense.
It was 1974.
She was coming off Romeo and Juliet,
but I do really want to share a
little bit of trivia about this movie,
which is apparently Olivia Hussey
took on this role because a psychic
told her she was going to be in a
really successful Canadian movie.
Emily: That is such a
70s actor thing to do.
Matt: And the same psychic was
apparently trying to help her manifest
Paul McCartney as her boyfriend.
Which, uh, yeah, I read a thing
with Margot Kidder saying that
like, yeah, we, we, we gave her
a pretty hard time about that.
Jeremy: Oh, that's
fantastic.
Matt: oh, and, and Andrea Martin of SCTV,
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
Matt: that part was going to be
Gilda Radner and she had to drop
out to go do Saturday Night Live.
Jeremy: mean, she's, she's great.
I love Andrea Martin though.
Matt: Oh yeah.
And just the worst, the minute
she shows like, oh no, they're
gonna kill Andrea Martin.
Jeremy: yeah,
Matt: Oh, no.
Jeremy: it's a, I live in fear of the
season of only murders where they,
kill Andrea Martin at some point
Ben: oh no, don't, don't even
say it into the universe.
Jeremy: fantastic in that.
Matt: Is she, is she back in season?
Is she back in season three?
I haven't
Jeremy: Yeah.
She's in season three,
Ben: Season, season three, she has
some amazing material in season three.
Matt: she's the best.
Emily: She's the one that my mom
was trying to remember the name of.
I haven't gotten up to,
to past season one yet.
Ben: I did see that Andrea Martin was
in the remake and I thought to myself,
oh, we watched the remake and I don't
remember her in it, and then I realized
we watched the other remake, which,
Jeremy: Yeah.
The other, the remake that we watched.
Has very little to do with this
film, other than it being Christmas
and there being a sorority.
The other, the remake that Andrea
Martin is in, where she's playing
the Miss Mack role, yeah, is
much more, like, straightforward.
Kind of the same thing
with the Otz slasher vibe.
Ben: the one we watched is kind of
Cary Ewells as Andrew Tate Warlock.
Yeah!
Jeremy: an accurate description.
Uh, that one doesn't have what
this one does, which is the
handsomest man in the world, John
Saxon, just being handsome at the,
Ben: I was so happy when
I saw John Saxon in this
movie.
Matt: Can I, quas?
This isn't really name
dropping, I gotta tell.
But I love my agent.
I'm the only person I know in
Hollywood that legitimately.
It works in TV or movies that legitimately
like, I would have my agent in my house.
You know what I mean?
Like I, I genuinely, my
agent's a great dude.
I love him.
He's done right by me.
He fights for me.
He's the best guy and like a guy
of ethics and standards, all this
stuff, just the opposite of, of
Ari on Entourage or whatever.
And we were talking about something
the day that John Saxon had died.
And I said, as all of us did when
they've heard that John Saxon
died, Oh no, John Saxon died.
And he's like, yeah, yeah,
no, it's, it's a bummer.
He was such a great guy
and like a great neighbor.
And I was like, what?
And John Saxon was his next door neighbor.
And it's the only time I've
ever been mad at my agent.
I was like, well, you've, at
that point, you've been my
agent for like five, six years.
I was like, you're just telling me now
that John Saxon lives next door to you.
I could have.
Gone to your house under the pretense of
going to your house to meet John Saxon.
Emily: That's how you
know he's professional.
Matt: That's true.
He really keeps it.
He keeps his shit wired tight.
Yeah.
But like John Saxon is one of
those guys that any time he shows
up, the movie immediately gets
an extra half star in my head.
Ben: and he is solid because that
was I believe he was also like a last
minute replacement, for that role.
Matt: It's kind of one of the
many sick ironies at the end of
the movie is John Saxon shows up
and you're like, Hey, dad's here.
Emily: Yeah,
Matt: Right?
Dad's gonna, finally, dad's here.
He's gonna make it all better.
He's gonna get to the bottom of things.
He's gonna, and doesn't,
Ben: No, it takes so much for me to
actually feel safe when a cop shows up
in one of these movies, even knowing
how ineffectual they always are.
Matt: yeah,
just,
Ben: When Saxon shows up,
I'm like, it's gonna be okay.
Matt: yeah,
Ben: It's not, but you feel it.
Matt: yeah, yeah.
It just makes the ending that
much more of a twist in the gut.
Ben: But, you know, you're somewhere
like, this movie's making it up, and
I just was like, this is probably the
start, like, one of the first, like, the
cop in the car watching over the house
gets killed, and now, in every movie,
Jeremy: completely off screen too.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: if there, is a cop standing guard
outside a house, they're a goner,
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: We haven't mentioned also that,
uh, Olivia Hussey, who plays Jess, her
boyfriend is played by Keir Dullea.
Uh, his name is Peter in this but he
is also, you know, of, 2001, a space
odyssey and many, many other films.
So he's very difficult to like in this
film much more likable as, as Dave
Bowman in 2001, even though that's
hard to like much of anybody in 2001.
Ben: which, I think is really something
else to say about Margot Kidder,
because she's so likable in, in this
movie, even though she has, honestly,
one of the most heinous fucking
lines I've ever heard a character
Matt: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
no, she's a despicable, like, oh,
like, but everyone knew that person.
Some of us probably were that person.
Emily: Yeah.
Matt: She was the, uh, edge lordess
before her time, you know what I mean?
Edge lady?
Emily: Edge lady?
Edge Duchess.
Matt: Also, isn't
Ben: How is that not a 90s anti
hero, like, bombshell lady?
Matt: there's, what this was 74?
Ben: Yeah.
Emily: Yes.
Matt: So it's five years after 2001 has
come out, six years after 2001 was made.
Keir Dillia has, has, has taken
a lot of, uh, knocks in his time.
I will say this.
He somehow is 15 years
younger in this movie.
I buy Dave, but like, I buy that Dave
Bowman is an astronaut capable of deep
space travel and making a spaceship happen
and doing all the stuff Dave Bowman does.
Like he plays it with such,
Kubrickian, uh, competence.
And in this, like, oh, you're
a fucking 22 year old asshole.
You know, you're a snot
nosed, spoiled college kid.
And it's crazy to me that it's five or six
years after 2001, and he fits that role.
He, he is, he is an insufferable
grad student a tortured artiste.
And it's like, you couldn't fly a
spaceship, you're an asshole, right?
Emily: Didn't recognize
Ben: He's got kind of like this slumped
shoulders, like he's always looming
over people when he talks.
Very pouty.
He's got the most 70s hair
Matt: It's
fat,
Emily: I didn't recognize him
because he was talking so fast.
Matt: Yeah.
And he's got the kind of, you know, he's
got the, the very hair instead of the kind
of the tight high and tight astronaut.
So
Ben: I will say though, he's not the
most 70s character in this movie.
That honor is taken by Phil's
boyfriend, who has the afro,
those glasses, that mustache.
That is the most 70, who is just
dressed as Santa and swearing
up a storm in front of children.
Emily: Those poor children.
Ben: That is the most
70s man in the movie.
Jeremy: A man that it's amazing does not
come back just to get killed in this movie
Matt: Also like clear, they had no, right?
Like they're, they were making it up,
Jeremy: Yeah,
Ben: Yeah,
Jeremy: it's, it's
like any other horror movie, now.
Yeah.
Matt: One of the things that struck
me that, and I really like slashers.
but you know, there's a, a
thing where like, after, Yeah.
Like Friday the 13th too, none of the
kids tend to be likable, or if there
is someone likable, they're either
gonna die first, or make it out, right?
Like, everyone gets so insufferable, and
part of it I think is they were thinking,
well, we want people to cheer when the,
kids die, so the kids all gotta be dicks.
You know,
Jeremy: And we've talked about, like
in Scream, what ghouls everybody is.
Ben: Yeah.
I think it was part of that, it's the 80s,
we're now in Reaganomics, we explicitly
demand the blood sacrifice of the youth.
Matt: yeah, I don't, I don't even
know, you know, I just think it's,
they didn't want to bum people
out and it's easier when you're
rooting for the kids to die, right?
Like, like the first two Friday
the 13th, movies, there's
charm to those casts, right?
There's, there is a great charm to
the ensemble of women in this movie.
Ben: Oh yeah,
Matt: the, the, three kids in Halloween,
Laurie Strode survives because Laurie
Strode's the best, and that just kind
of goes away from from these movies so
quickly it's just it's I think to their
detriment quite honestly and frequently
but like it's so great in this where like
you enjoy all of them and know exactly
who they are in the first 10 minutes,
exactly who each of their types are, you
know, you want to hang out there, you
know, I want to hang out in that house.
It looks lived in too, right?
It's like such a real location.
Ben: like you said,
it's very cozy and warm,
Emily: the old style house with the,
weird 70s color blocking curtains
and the, hippie ass posters and stuff
Matt: love the poster and
the, and the father's quiet
revulsion at the depravity
that poster represents.
Ben: there's definitely a moment in
this movie where that father's doing the
math and mental math is like, I would
rather my daughter be dead than fucking.
Matt: Yeah, no, he, he realizes my
daughter's been railed in this room and,
and Christmas was going to be terrible.
Jeremy: Yeah, I, it's interesting watching
this, like, having grown up in the 80s
and like, looking at this and being
like, oh, a lot of the stuff that I was
informed were things that were like, new
and deviant in movies when I was growing
up existed in the 70s without issue.
That was just how it was.
And it wasn't until, you
know, several years later.
That uh, all of this stuff got kicked
out of the movies and they got much,
much more serious about that stuff.
Ben: But uh, Matt, I, what you're
saying about how the characters
are likable, I think that's such an
important part though, you do know
who these people are, you do connect.
Even Barb, who is just, Just saying
just the worst things, being kind
of cruel to everyone, and yet you
still can't help but love her.
And I think that especially
becomes important with the ending.
Because you can't pull off an
ending like that if you don't
care about these characters.
And that is one of the most haunting
and chilling endings I've ever seen.
Matt: Yeah.
And, and also I love that it's ambiguous.
I love that there's no answer.
I love that it's not, you never
really find out who Billy is or
why, you know, and like, it's, it's
Ben: we don't learn that.
Matt: yeah, that there's no,
it's not even, it's not even the
point and it's never answered.
this is also like the literally the
only movie I've ever seen that gave me a
literal cold shiver And it does it every
single time with the shot of Billy's eye
Jeremy: Yeah.
Matt: like
it, it, it, every, and even
now I know it's coming.
I can tell everyone, Oh, here
comes, here comes my favorite shot.
Here comes my favorite shot.
And every single time it
like, Oh God, it's so creepy.
Ben: I mean, I live in, you know, an eight
floor apartment that has a single door
in and out, and yet I'm still just like
looking at all my windows just checking
like, Okay, but there's no way someone
could sneak in though still, right?
I'm making sure like Spider Man isn't
waiting to just like fucking jump me now.
Emily: one eyeball looking at you.
Matt: It's just, Oh,
Ben: But Yeah, no, you're so right,
like, the horror brought home,
like you said, and like, right
when that was a brand new concept.
Matt: and somehow the, phone calls are
the most explicit part of the movie.
Like, this is not a movie
with a lot of blood,
Emily: No.
Matt: you know, much like, like
Chainsaw, like Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Like there's not a ton
of blood in this movie.
It's kind of the phone calls and the
tone, are the thing that Make it rated R.
Like, there's no nudity.
the phone calls, like, or even today,
it's like, oh, oh my God, I can't
believe they said, you know, don't
say that to Olivia Hussey, that, what?
Jeremy: Yeah, Barbs is the
only murder that's bloody.
Matt: yeah, and even then, it's so arty,
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Very arty.
You got the unicorn, you got like
the moody lighting with the black,
the glass unicorn, and the reds.
Matt: yeah, there's more blood in Psycho,
you know, Psycho's got more blood
than Texas Chainsaw, but that
and this are both such masterful,
tonal nightmares that, Every time
I watch it, I'm like, Oh, right.
It's really implied.
It's almost like a Val Luton movie
with all the stuff that you don't see.
Ben: the revulsion and dread that
this movie is able to inspire with
just Claire in the rocking chair.
Like that it doesn't need extra
gore, it just needs to be what it is.
Emily: Yeah.
Matt: Just horrifying.
Emily: and also the whole idea of being
inside the house and also the, all the
evidence is inside the house as well.
And nobody's seen it because nobody's,
like, even thinking about it.
Matt: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben: One thing that was just a little
funny because we just did an episode of
Scream 6 where they explicitly talk about
like, oh you need us to track down the
call but it takes you like five minutes
and we gotta keep them on forever.
And they make fun of that and how
it's improved and now that they
can do it in like 10 seconds.
So it was kind of fun to go all
the way back to probably like with
the original, like, you gotta keep
them on the line to track the call.
Jeremy: I like that we actually get
to see the guy running around the
exchanges at the phone company, which
is not like anything they ever show you
when they're tracking calls and things.
He's just, you know, running from
bank to bank trying to figure
Matt: he and John Saxon are the only
two competent adults in the whole
movie.
Jeremy: John Saxon's partner, or
at least office mate or whatever,
who's named Laughing Cop because
that's all he does in the movie.
Emily: yeah,
Ben: and you gotta think about, like, I
don't know, I mean, 74, like, I mean, how
many decades could it be since, like, you
know, mass adoption of landline phones?
It kind of does, you know, make me
realize with, uh, that first Scream
movie, it's like, damn, the use of
Emerging communications technologies
like for horror has been part of the
slasher genre since the very beginning
Emily: yeah.
I don't know if this is the
1st film or media, you know,
famous media.
Ben: you know, a stranger calls
with came out right before this.
I think you said
Emily: yeah, but I'm talking
about the meme, you know, it's
coming from inside the house.
Yeah, I don't know if this is the
first time for that, but I'm sure that
you know, if we track its genealogy
Matt: Yeah.
Emily: of that joke, right?
But this is a big part of that,
development.
Matt: Yeah.
Yeah.
It was this.
And when a stranger calls came out right
around the same and like, I think there
were kind of urban legends predating it.
Ben: I think it was a combination
of the urban legends, some specific
murders that had happened in
Montreal, and then Ed Kemper, they.
Said was one of those specific
sources for the villain.
Emily: yes.
Ben: Yeah, which, if you know
anything about Ed Kemper, folks,
yeah, that, that checks out.
Emily: Yeah, yeah, yeah, actually.
I Was thinking about that, but
anyway, you go ahead, Jeremy.
We can talk more about the
index of this movie after we
Jeremy: let's talk a little
bit about what happens in it.
we open at this uh, sorority house.
They're having sort of
this pre holiday party.
They're always sort of having a
party in this movie, or having people
Ben: They're having fun!
It's
Matt: they're, they're going
home for the semester break.
It's, they've all finished their,
their, the finals are done and
everybody's going to start peeling
off for Christmas vacation.
So it's their sorority house party.
Emily: it's a sorority house, so
there's always something going on.
Ben: yeah, like, parties, they're
there to be had parties in.
Jeremy: And Barb is like a machine
off the bat with her, her one liners.
And, and she, she calls her mom
a gold plated whore on the phone.
It was lovely.
And, Yeah, she, says
Matt: Isn't, isn't her choker say
something like sex or something?
Like she's wearing this kind
of like, she's wearing like a
ribbon, like a velvet ribbon.
And I like, I think it says like
sex on it or something like that.
Or,
Emily: It does have an X on it,
Matt: yeah, I think, I think, I think
she's just wearing like a velvet
ribbon around her neck that says sex.
So like, just in case you're wondering.
Jeremy: what she's about.
Matt: Yeah,
yeah, so she went to whatever
Hot Topic was in Toronto in 1974.
Ben: Barb, Barb knows who she is.
Matt: Yeah,
Emily: Is that the same hot
topic that Jess went to for
the big hands knit sweater?
Because where do I find that?
Matt: Yeah, that was pretty great.
Jeremy: yeah, she, she
also refers to Claire.
She talking about Claire.
She says, I know a professional
virgin when I see one.
Um, and she, she delivers the line
we were talking about earlier, the
most uncomfortable line in the film.
She
says, uh, you can't rape
a townie, which is awful.
Like it's.
Ben: ugh.
Jeremy: Watching it, I was
like, I'm enjoying her so much.
Oh, I'm enjoying her less.
Um, but
Ben: just kinda had to just, like,
pause the movie and just kinda, you
know, pick myself back up before
I kept going with that, with it.
Emily: never gonna
Ben: That is fortunately the
worst thing she says in the movie.
At least it's not just like, a
fountain of, you know, stuff that
would make Ben Shapiro blush.
Emily: This whole movie
would make Ben Shapiro blush.
Ben: True.
Jeremy: certainly
Emily: see ankles and necks and things.
Jeremy: yeah.
So we, uh, we also get the
arrival of, uh, Miss Mac, which
is their sort of house mom.
She, she gargles whiskey when
she can't find, uh, any, any, uh,
mouthwash and she curses like a sailor.
She's great.
Claire, unfortunately, at this
point, doesn't know she's in a
horror movie and keeps wandering
around asking who it is, who's there.
She gets wrapped up in plastic
and killed almost immediately.
And the killer, who will only ever
be referred to by himself as Billy
sings her a truly disturbing lullaby.
And then spirits her up away into
the garage where we will continue
to see her dead in the rocking
chair throughout the The rest of the
movie.
Matt: The attic.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: Yes.
Which the cops will never
Emily: the roof garage.
Matt: The best is that it's like,
you know how like in movies every
attic has a an empty birdcage?
Emily: Yeah.
Matt: best.
That's how you know it's an
attic, is there's a birdcage.
If there wasn't a birdcage,
then it could be a garage.
Jeremy: bird is
long
dead.
Matt: birdcage.
Emily: Yeah.
There was a pigeon rat in
that birdcage at some point.
But,
Ben: That was, uh, the fraternity parent
who didn't make it past the fifties.
Jeremy: Yeah, so, uh,
Jess gets a phone call
from her boyfriend, Peter.
Mysteriously says they need to
talk about something important.
they don't talk about it
here, but it'll come back up.
Now it's the next day.
We just skipped forward.
Claire's dad is, who
could easily play Scrooge.
Is looking for her.
He's a, he's a real prick to Mrs.
Mac about pretty much everything.
He's a prude.
They've got all their Lewd and suggestive
posters and behavior and things like that.
And he's, he's not into any of that.
Although Ms.
Matt: Well, she's also,
Jeremy: get him to give
Matt: she also clearly smells of,
smells of alcohol and can't identify
the location of his daughter, like, I'm,
I'm justifiable Canadian frustration
in that, in that really, I think, I
think he's, he's, he's, he might be a
tight ass, he might be horrible, but
like, yeah, no, he's totally entitled.
Ben: Also, I know earlier Barb calls Mrs.
Mac Ms.
Mac a professional virgin.
I'm sorry, Ms.
Mac Fox.
Emily: No, she's been fucking.
She's been fu like, she's tired of it.
Like, she fucked, she's, she's fucked
everything and everyone, and good
for her, and she's at the point where
she's like post, she's post sexual,
and not because of her
age, because of her, just,
Matt: You get bored with it.
Emily: she's bored, yeah, she now
has to keep Sherry hidden in toilets,
Ben: She She's won at sex.
She
Emily: yeah,
Ben: it.
Emily: yeah, no, she's like, it's like a,
a post, like, multi gold medal athlete,
yeah, Like, she's resting on her laurels
Matt: Yeah.
On his days off, you think Michael
Jordan goes and plays basketball?
Ben: Yeah, she She's Jordan re She's
Jordan retiring with six rings.
Emily: Yeah, she's got several
perfumes based off of her
Ben: I I love the joke, though, just
all of her hidden alcohol hiding spots.
That was just a delight Again,
like These are, these characters
don't just exist to be killed off.
These are fun, likable characters with
internal lives like all their own, and
it was just, ah, this is a good movie.
I'm so glad we got to watch this one.
I never seen it, and it's good.
Jeremy: at this point we find out
that, Jess's thing that she needs to
talk about is that she is pregnant
and, uh, wants to have an abortion.
Peter is not okay with this.
So he's also too busy fingering
his piano to actually discuss it.
he,
Matt: important composition to work on.
Jeremy: Yeah, he has a very important,
what sounds like a pretty bad, or I
guess he's just, I guess he cannot play
the piano because he is so angry that
his girlfriend wants an abortion later.
Ben: Well, he's been in the conservatory
for eight years, which, I don't know
if that's supposed to, I don't know
how long you're supposed to stay at a
conservatory, or if that was just their
way of writing around the actor's age
and making the audience not question it.
Emily: Look, if he was better at
fingering the piano, he probably
wouldn't be in this situation right now.
That's what I'm saying.
That's his
Ben: he's
Matt: I'm amazed that I'm not
the one making these comments.
Ben: He's a pretty awful man baby, and
I very much understand why Jess wants to
dump his loser, his Beatles hair havin
ass, Ringo Starr lookin motherfucker.
Emily: Well, she wanted, I mean,
the actor wanted Paul McCartney.
Maybe she this is what she manifested.
Matt: didn't order a Ringo, I wanted Paul.
Jeremy: I do appreciate just
how,
like, how much this movie, like it
doesn't, the movie doesn't comment
on it directly, but how, like,
sort of, innately, in telling the
story, it is pro choice and pro
her, like,
Matt: Yeah.
She's too young, she
can't care for her kid.
She has a life and that she wants to live.
She has an education to complete
and this wasn't supposed to happen.
And yeah, she has complete
body autonomy and it's not
any of his fucking business.
Ben: this shitty man is trying to
use this as a way of controlling
her, and she is not putting up with
it for one solitary goddamn second.
Emily: And
Jeremy: that was one of the
things, oh, sorry, go ahead.
Emily: I just, I just want to
underscore this because this is what
Matt brought up is very important.
This is a movie from 1974 where a woman
in college says, I want an abortion and
she lives, she survives the slasher movie.
She is not judged for wanting an abortion.
She gets harassed.
By a psychopath that is possibly related,
but only as related as he is a psychopath,
Ben: Well, oh yeah, and well, that to
me is something that is very refreshing
about this movie, and that You know, is
a bit of a product of You know, being
one of the things that kicked off the
slasher genre is, I think it's, you know,
while some elements, maybe, you know,
it doesn't have the formulas polished it
also means it doesn't have some of the bad
habits that the genre would later pick up.
And what feels really noticeable
to me about this movie is
the lack of exploitation
Emily: yes.
Yes.
Ben: for a genre that would
become almost defined by it.
Jeremy: Yeah, especially
anything that happens in a
sorority house in a horror movie.
There's no, like, there's no weird shots
of people changing in this, there's
no, like, shower scenes, there's no,
like, I mean, it is cold outside, and
so they wear clothes the whole time.
Like, they're,
you know, quite heavily
clothed throughout.
Ben: there's really only one moment
of this movie that is just Absolutely
ridiculous, over the top, gratuitous sex
appeal, and it is Art Hindle storming into
that police station with the that fuckin
the greatest fur coat I've ever seen in
Emily: Oh, yeah.
Ben: Fuckin INCREDIBLE
Art Hindle in that coat.
Wanna get a poster of
Art Hindle in that coat?
Jeremy: He goes from playing hockey
Ben: INCREDIBLE.
He looks like he's ready to just
do a fistful of cocaine and go
see a boxing match in the city.
Emily: talk about science
gone wrong in the Arctic.
Like, he could be studying
the thing in that coat.
We're talking about Kurt Russell.
I was just trying to
Jeremy: So
yeah, yeah.
We, we, we got you.
Um, yeah, this is where the, the scene
occurs that, uh, Ben was talking about
earlier of I'm going to the police
station to report Claire is missing.
And, uh, Margo Kidder being given
the job of, of telling the police
officer what their phone number is
and, uh, giving him, telling him that
they're in the new exchange fellatio.
She then, she then has to spell for
him and he doesn't know what it is
which we'll come back later when he
has, gives it to the other officers
and, uh, they're, they're laughing
at him and he says, what is it?
Something dirty?
It's something dirty, isn't it?
Emily: They don't tell him.
Jeremy: it's really just great.
Ben: These cops are like This is like
a Brooklyn Nine Nine type precinct.
they're having their own B
plots about getting shot in
the ass by a crazy old dude.
Emily: I mean, it's, it's I have a lot
of emotions about how these cops deal
with the missing persons and how not
Ben: Badly.
Emily: or, or, well, I mean,
that it, nothing has changed.
Let me just put it that way.
nothing has changed.
Yeah.
And I'm not talking about in movies.
Yes.
Jeremy: have a very, like, one good
cop situation here because the,
Our lieutenant, our very handsome
lieutenant, is like, wait, hold
on, there's these three different
things that might be related.
This little girl got murdered, and
this, you know, college girl has gone
missing, and they're getting all these,
like, horrible phone calls at the house.
Maybe those things are related!
It's real great detective work the
rest of the group couldn't do, which
does not seem particularly out of
character for the rest of the group.
As, as Ben was saying, we do
meet Chris, who is the hockey
player who's Claire's boyfriend.
Uh, he's there too little too late
and he won't really matter, but he is
Art Hindle, so you know, good for him.
Um, uh, we also get the
bad piano recital by Peter.
He is so pissed off that his girlfriend,
has control of her own body that
he cannot play the piano anymore.
And then we'll proceed to break
it with several items making
himself look like a serial killer.
Ben: a big whiny baby.
Jeremy: yeah, and speaking of
whiny
Matt: best is like the stink eye
that like the faculty are giving it.
Like just, oh my god.
Eight years.
This is what this guy came up with.
This is just, yeah.
It's such a great iconic moment
of iconic cinematic douche bags.
Ben: And then I love later
when he's like, You know what?
I've made the decision all on my own that
I think I should leave the conservatory.
Jeremy: Yeah,
this just isn't going as I'd planned.
Ben: Uh, whiplash this dude is not.
Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah, uh, we do get then,
uh, seen with Barb having a breakdown
as she's clearly blaming herself
for things going wrong with Claire.
She had an argument with Claire the
night before and she's accusing everybody
else of blaming her while she drinks
heavily and reads Playboy on the couch.
Emily: Is this where she's
talking about the turtles?
Jeremy: this is where she talks about
Ben: Yeah, that was
Jeremy: and that some of
them humped for three days.
She's,
Emily: The funny thing about that
is she talks about the zebras.
Zebras have incredibly long penises.
But they but apparently,
Matt: striped?
Emily: no.
Not that I'm aware of.
That might make them look shorter.
Ben: Kind of want to see the version
of this movie where there is no
killer and they all go on a ski trip
to distract themselves from like,
Barb's terrible relationship with
her mother and it's just this like,
intense 70s coming of age movie.
Emily: And then we also get
to learn about wildlife.
Ben: Yeah, mostly because, you know,
Margot Kidder would have just crushed
that as, like, a lead role, like, drama.
Which, I guess, would have somehow led to
the ski comedy movies of the 80s, because
it still would have spawned a genre.
Anyway, sorry, Jeremy, where are we at?
Who's who's dead?
Has Miss Mac got a hook through her face?
Emily: Yes.
Ben: Yeah,
Jeremy: the little girl
is dead first, I think.
We,
Emily: Claire, Claire died and she's
up there in that, that plastic wrap.
I mean, I want to know who made that
plastic wrap because it is preserving her.
Jeremy: yeah, we, we do, everybody
else leaves to go on this search party
for this little girl who is missing.
And, that sort of allows the killer
to pick people off one at a time.
Miss Mac goes looking
for her cat in the attic.
And gets a hook to the
face for her trouble.
I don't know what sort of,
like, industrial work they were
doing that involved having that,
like, hook set up in the attic.
Um,
Matt: heavy birdcage.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Ben: hook is just supporting
her whole body weight for hours.
Emily: it's the, uh, it's wrought
iron birdcage with a black hole in it.
Jeremy: 70s bird cages were
so heavy.
Ben: an entire emu in there.
Jeremy: I'm guessing they must have been
using that to support the cameraman who
was going up and down that ladder while
using the camera to film in first person.
As they were doing that, I was
like, that's fucking impressive.
This guy is
Emily: He wasn't climbing a ladder.
He was touching ladder rungs with
a camera while standing on a stool.
Like, let's be real.
I saw how he grabbed those last two
Ben: It's movie ma MOVIE MAGIC!
Emily: magic.
Jeremy: I mean, stepping on a stool
or not, I would not have been wanting
to do that carrying a 70s film camera.
Emily: Margo Kidder is talking about
turtle fucking and then she said sorry.
Not
Jeremy: then she goes to bed
because she is drunk and pissed.
She's pissed and pissed.
God,
Ben: fanfic writers, though.
Take notes.
Emily: That's not kind of, that's
not the kind of turtle she's
talking about.
The Ninja Turtles are
definitely three minute dudes.
Anyway, I'm really glad
we're on board with this.
Okay, so she pissed herself.
No, she didn't piss herself.
She just went upstairs and went to bed.
Jeremy: Yeah, she put up her girly
porno mags and, uh, went to bed.
And they, they find the, uh, Jess
decides to come home she's tired of
looking for the dead little girl,
but then they find the dead little
girl immediately after she leaves.
And then she starts getting obscene phone
calls, and she calls the cops and gets our
useless front desk cop while the grieving
dad, or, well, uh, I guess not yet
grieving, searching dad, Claire's dad is.
is there and like recognizes the house
number while he's listening to him
take this call and then goes tells the
lieutenant he doesn't even like stop him
from hanging up the phone he just is like
he goes and tattles to the lieutenant
afterwards but somehow it just gets
worse for her because it seems like that
she's going to be attacked by the stalker
because we see somebody sneaking up on
her downstairs and it's it's worse it's
her shitty boyfriend Um, who is there to
grill her about having his baby and tells
her that she can't have an abortion to
which she rightly says to go fuck himself.
And then he, then he almost, like, shoves
Lieutenant Fuller as he is leaving the
house, which, like, is a great way to
set an impression that you're, you're
not trying to murder people when, when a
girl has disappeared, it's just Obviously
have a loud argument with your girlfriend
and then shove the cop on the way out.
Yeah, they decide to tap the
phone and leave a police officer
outside, a part of a long tradition.
Peter is still hanging around
outside in the bushes we see.
Barb wakes up having an asthma attack
because she thinks she dreamed that
there was somebody in her room.
It turns out, as we know, that
there was somebody in her room.
And then she proceeds to be stabbed
to death by a glass unicorn.
Which I feel like is a metaphor
for something, but I'm not sure
what.
Matt: If only being penetrated by a
horn repeatedly somehow tied into the
character of Barb and the way she had
Jeremy: I feel like the unicorn
in particular just seems
Ben: fragile yet deadly, yet
Margot Kidders the unicorn.
Emily: there's something said
about the glass menagerie here.
I don't remember anything about that
play other than there was a glass unicorn
and that's the only reason that I was
interested in it when I was little.
She had a glass menagerie
and that was a unicorn.
And I think that, that, that play
is about like women having things.
I think.
Matt: being treated like things.
Emily: yeah,
Matt: She's got pleurosis and can't
leave the apartment and all that stuff.
Emily: Thank you.
Thank you for
Matt: But I, like, but like, there's also
a world where Barb is in fact a virgin.
And all of, and it's overly performative
Ben: Oh,
Matt: You know what I mean?
Uh,
uh, um, you know, but if you knew that
everybody knew that person, right?
There was this sort of overly presenting
promiscuousness as an identity that you
Ben: Mm-Hmm.
Matt: have.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: really, what occurred to
me, and I think a lot of people
online seem to have grasped onto as
well, is also that she is you know,
looking at Playboy in that section
and it's, it's like, is, is Barb gay?
Is Barb bi?
Is, you know, is this either performative
or, or you know, trying to, to hide that?
Or, you know, is this, you know,
really the first, the first time
we're seeing Barb in the, you
know, scene where she is drunk?
Ben: I think the evidence of Barb's you
know, hetero question mark, promiscuity
as a front, you know, just, in the
visual storytelling of like, of the
four main girls in the movie, she's the
only one that doesn't have a boyfriend.
When the movie starts.
Matt: Yeah.
Emily: Those, okay, I'm trying to
remember the names of all the characters
and I can't, so I'm not going to.
Jeremy: Claire, Barb, Phil,
Emily: Phil the one with the glasses?
Okay, so there was a point where Phil
and Claire, no, Phil and, and, and Jess.
Were talking in the, in one of the
main gathering places and they were
doing like this very gay, like, Kabedon
thing where, where Phil was like,
putting her arm up against the wall and
like, looking at, at Jess in the eyes
and
Jeremy: They're standing
very close to each other.
Emily: Yeah, yeah, it was, it was
very, it was like the the whole
like, anime Kabedon, like, I need
to talk to you, onegaishimasu.
Ben: Yeah, no, I, I really like that
interpretation of Barb as someone who
uses promiscuity as a emotional shield.
Matt: Yeah.
You know, it's, it's, she is
the one without a partner.
It's the 70s.
Everyone's liberated.
You know, she's gonna Oh, sure, I can, you
know, reading Playboy and all this stuff.
And like, she clearly like she
knows she's being an asshole.
She knows she's gone too far.
And it's in she goes to bed like
it's, it's just, I've always kind of
had it in my head that like, that is
entirely performative promiscuity.
And I don't even know that that's
the right word for it because
there's such a judge, there's like
a judgmental factor to promiscuity,
Ben: And she mostly uses it
as a way to argue with people,
to, to
to
create confrontation, to, you
know, fuck with people, to, like,
Matt: Yeah.
Oh, does this blow your little
small town provincial mind?
I'm sitting on the couch reading playboy,
Emily: Yeah, she's
Ben: fellatio, you, you
can't spell fellatio.
Matt: yeah, but it entirely
vibes to me is like, you're 19.
Ben: Yeah,
Matt: and you're pretending.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: and I feel like, you know, if
you haven't known a Barb, you've
probably definitely known at least,
like, somebody in your life who
is just, like, lying through their
teeth about their sexual experience.
Jeremy: Yeah, and I mean, not to be
judgmental, but I feel like that sort
of checks out with her Swarovski crystal
collection of animals up on her shelf.
Like, that does not, that
does not jive with the, like,
liquor swelling performative,
Matt: yeah, no, right, it's, it's
totally, she's got the little girl's room.
even even the, even the stuffy, the first
girl who everybody makes fun of, the prim
and proper, like even she has a little
bit of something risque in her bedroom
with those, with that ridiculous poster.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: Yeah, who
Matt: Barb's got, Barb's
got little glass animals.
Emily: that unicorn horn is very
long, though, and not terribly sharp.
Ben: is sharp enough to get the job done?
Emily: Well, it's sharp enough
with the right with the right.
I mean, anything is sharp enough with
the right amount of force, but like,
Ben: That belongs on that
belongs on a motivational poster.
I need an inspiring photo of
the sunset being, like, anything
sharp enough with enough force.
Matt: you can see that she's the one that
engages with Billy on the phone sexually.
Emily: yes.
Ben: Yeah.
Matt: Everyone else is shocked and
outraged and angry, and she's the one
that tries to out dirty the dirty caller
and pretends that she thinks it's,
it's funny that, that there's some
old perv out there getting his kicks.
I don't know.
Ben: Yeah.
Spoilers, uh, trying to out troll
the troll does not tend to end well.
Matt: Does not know,
Emily: well, now we were talking about
Barb just one more thing about her whole
Ben: Oh, as Fuck yeah, I could
talk about Barb all night.
Hell yeah, Margot
Emily: Well, we talk about how she's
challenging and maybe she's performative,
but I think also there is, it does
have something to something in common
with depictions of lesbians in cinema
in that time that are like, you know,
the slightly, you know, for the time
progressive depictions of lesbians that
I've seen in movies like that, that,
you know, they're always challenging.
And the, you know, it wouldn't
surprise me if that was the intent
or the original intent of the the
original screenplay or whatever.
Matt: You know, overly
performative heterosexuality
to hide deeply closeted
homosexuality is, is, you know,
Emily: yeah.
Ben: As far as I'm
concerned, that's canon.
Emily: Okay.
Sounds good.
So, when we get to our progressive
politics about, LGBTQIA.
Ben: Well, I think it's pretty
unquestionable that this is definitely,
uh, a pretty feminist movie.
You know, it's very pro choice views, it's
a wide variety of women characters, it's a
lack of, exploitation and sexual violence.
Jeremy: and the fact that it's not just
the killer, they are really, especially
Jess, has failed by the system in this in
this movie in a very, like, you know, you
know, the, She's just not really listened
to and she's treated poorly and then
eventually left to presumably be killed.
We don't know that for sure.
It's a very ambiguous
ending, but, um, you know,
Ben: I, I don't think it's an intentional
reference, but, her British accent
reminds me of Clive Barker, so.
Emily: don't think Clive Barker was active
on the, in the movie scene at this point.
Ben: a retroactive being
British, Easter Egg!
Jeremy: You know, once Clive
Barker got there, you couldn't
be British in the movie.
They just had to dub over it because
it was unbelievable or something.
I don't know.
Whatever the
fuck
Ben: the wildest fucking, that's still the
wildest fucking part of Hellraiser, is the
dub over to remove all British accents.
Emily: really hope that they did dub
over in this movie, all of the swearing
that they did in front of those kids.
Matt: Uh, yes, they were not.
It was a different Bob.
That's actually Bob Clark's voice.
I think doing the calls and he
did one thing offset and then
they dubbed in something else
later because nobody wanted to
Ben: Well, I think, yeah, Emma, you
also mean, uh, the Christmas party where
Santa's just like fucking cussing a whole
Emily: Yes.
That as well.
Cause
Ben: yeah.
Emily: What's his
Matt: Pretty easy to do, easy,
easy to do ADR on Santa with
Emily: Yeah.
Right.
Ben: I'd like, I'd like, to think
they were like, These are Canadian
children, they've been to hockey games.
We're not saying anything
they haven't heard before.
Emily: I mean, sure.
kids can be kids and
they can, you know, I,
Ben: It was the, uh, the
Canadian Parliamentary Fuck
Them Kids Act of 1957, I think.
Emily: That's true.
Jeremy: very traditional.
So, it's after
Emily: kids.
I was just gonna say, if those kids
were listening to swears, I just
want them to have decided to do it.
Yeah.
Jeremy: After Barb gets stabbed Jess gets
another call from the Stalker, and the
Stalker repeats some stuff that Peter has
said earlier in the day so, like, they
know that this Stalker is, is someone
or somewhere that would know about that.
Phil, unfortunately, goes to check on
Barb, and we do not see what happens,
but she is dead the next time we see her.
Yeah, Jess gets another
call from the killer.
And the phone company does manage to
track this one and it's coming from the
other phone in the house and of course,
the detective calls and tells Nash,
the, you know, useless officer, he's
like, just don't tell her it's coming
from in the house, just get her out
of the house and Nash, Nash tries it,
Matt: You said I'm not supposed to
tell you that the calls are coming
from inside of the house and I
should just get you out of the house.
Does that make any sense to you?
Does that
Jeremy: just
Matt: like it?
Does that sound like something?
Jeremy: Cause Jess is, Jess is like,
well, I will go get the others that are
upstairs and get them out of the house.
And they're like, no, no, no,
no, no, don't, don't do that.
Just, you know, walk out of
the house for fun or something.
And then she's like, what?
And, uh, fine.
It's the calls are coming
from inside the house.
You got to get out of the house.
So of course she doesn't.
She goes to get the fire poker and
does this, take care of this herself.
Emily: This is the cop that
she spoke to before, though.
Like, this is, this is the shit cop.
So like,
Ben: There, there is a lot of tension.
I feel like this movie is I feel like
it could be maybe seen as slow, but I
feel like the pacing is very intentional
and well done, especially with like, you
know, the phone call, each phone call
not lasting long enough, and You know,
and just knowing that with each one, the
killer gets closer and more dangerous.
Like, you know, I talked a lot about how
in Halloween Jamie Lee Curtis doesn't
know there's a horror movie going on
until the last 10 minutes of the movie.
This is one where like, even though it's
not a lot of like, it's not like a big
gore fest or killing left and right,
like, it is a little more of a mystery.
It is more methodical, but I find
like, just how grounded it is.
That it is just like very much based
on these real life killings and that
there is nothing not real life about it.
I find it just all ramped up to
just more attention and I found
myself more forgiving of a bit
of a slower pace as it just.
The tension just kept ramping up and
ramping up as the movie went along.
I found,
Jeremy: And until those last 10
minutes, nobody has found a body other
than the little girl in the park.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Nobody knows that
any of these people are dead.
Emily: By the, the terms of 1970s
cinema, this movie is speedy.
Matt: I've, I've never, like, I
think the, the, the missing kid kind
of subplot, that there's never an
explicit tie in resolution kind of
always makes that feel like padding.
But like, yeah, no, I've never, I've
never, boy, I've never felt this drag.
I've, it just, it's, it's like a
tight 90, it's like 98 minutes, right?
Like it's, it just rockets by for me.
Ben: We do a lot of these horror
movies and you wouldn't think
some of these movies could
drag with only 90 minutes, but
some of them find, some
Emily: Oh,
Ben: Yeah, no, I found myself really
like, honestly, cause it's kind of
glued to the screen on this one, like
this was one where again, the POV
is effective, you know, you can see
where it kind of falls, you know.
It was definitely inspired by a psycho.
I definitely see how this would
go on to inspire, uh, uh, Ramy,
but,
Matt: on
Jeremy: inspirational toward
Matt: I think you can I
think you can really see,
Ben: But yeah, just this like, tense
of like, again, The tension of getting
introduced to all these characters,
having enough time to really connect
with them, and then have them be picked
off one by one with these characters,
really, for the most part, never getting
closer to the mystery or figuring it
out, and it all just being in this
very grounded and real method and tone.
Yeah, fuck, this movie, this
movie is a shilling movie.
I get why it deserves its
spot as a horror classic.
Which
Jeremy: Yeah.
So I think Nash legitimately does
his best not to tell her his best.
This isn't very good.
So he, he tells her and she, she
tries to go upstairs to, you know,
tell the other girls, get them out
of there and finds they're both dead.
And this is where Matt mentioned the
shot of the, you know, eyeball peeking
just around the door, and she slams the
door, I guess, on his hand, um, and he
chases her through, manages, she manages
to get down to the basement and lock
herself into the basement and he bangs
and rattles and tries to get in but
eventually walks off until we see, like,
somebody stalking around the outside of
the basement, looking through the windows,
trying to figure out what's going on,
and we discover it's Peter, you which
to, I think, for her and eventually
everybody else in this movie, it makes
sense that those are the same person,
that Peter didn't just happen to be
stalking around outside and hear some
screaming, so came to see what was going
on, which is presumably what happened.
so yeah, He breaks through the
Matt: just stalking around
outside masturbating, but
then he heard the screams and
Emily: Yeah.
Matt: to get involved.
Jeremy: It was, it was making it hard to
masturbate, all the screaming was just,
Matt: Girls, keep it down!
I'm trying to work!
Emily: Yeah.
Like I, I imagine
he's
definitely the kind of person.
Matt: Yeah, it's like the
opening of Ichi the Killer.
Emily: Christ.
Jeremy: Yeah, so, uh, he, he breaks into
the basement and, uh, presumably, Jess
then beats him to death with that fire
poker because when we next see him, the
cops are coming to check on them and find
Peter dead with his head in Jess's lap.
Ben: It's some real, uh, no country
for old men stuff, in that I had to
rewind and make sure I hadn't missed
part of the movie, or there was
something wrong with the YouTube video.
Matt: Yeah,
I, do we think he's
dead?
Ben: free?
Emily: I, I think he's dead.
Cause they would have, they would
have, they suspected him in a big way.
And they said that they,
that she killed him.
Matt: Oh, okay.
Then great.
Okay.
He's dead.
Yeah.
They said
Jeremy: I
Emily: Peter said, we don't
know about Billy, who, if
Billy was,
Matt: Right.
Right.
No, I was just, you know,
yeah, Billy's not dead.
Yeah, no, I guess I, I forgot
that, she, but yeah, no, it's,
it's totally everybody assumes.
He went
Ben: Which, he is innocent of murder, but
still guilty of being an abusive asshole.
So,
Emily: don't know if
he's not Billy, right?
Because they don't show Billy
when they, when they pan out.
Jeremy: we do know, because she
does get a call when he's there,
Ben: yeah.
Emily: Oh, but he's
Jeremy: she says earlier, she's, she's
confident that it's not him because
he was there when they got a call.
But
I don't think she says that
to anybody other than Phil.
Ben: nothing in the movie makes
you think he is not capable
of domestic abuse, even if he
is not.
A
serial killer,
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah, Jessen
apparently passes out.
She's, she faints of being a woman
in a horror movie in the 70s.
Ben: like, yeah, he, I mean, Peter is
like, I mean, on paper, the most innocent
explanation is, this is a man who has
had multiple screaming matches about his
partner who is trying to have an abortion
and is now breaking into her house.
Matt: Yeah.
Yeah Yeah, I was breaking into
Ben: That,
Matt: to keep yelling at you
Ben: that is the most
charitable explanation for
what Peter's doing right now.
Jeremy: breaking into
your house to save you!
Ben: And
it's, he do he doesn't know
that there's a killer, he's just
breaking in so he can yell at her
Emily: He knows that there's a killer.
They're on there.
Everyone's like on a
Matt: the
Emily: watch or whatever.
Yeah, there's a possible.
Yeah.
There's a little girl who died.
And he goes, Oh, no,
Jeremy: I like to imagine that
Peter did somehow in fact kill the
cop, because the cop outside being dead
is a little difficult to explain with
Billy being in the attic, but You know,
Billy's semi superpowered anyway, so.
Matt: Yeah, it's sort of the one It's
kind of for me the most obvious point
that they hadn't quite like they had the
hook The calls are coming from inside
the house But like if you go like why
didn't they hear like at some points
they can hear things upstairs But they
couldn't have heard him just dick.
Yeah, they heard the cat upstairs, but
they didn't hear the screaming yelling
Billy phone call, you know, like, like
if you can hear a cat knock a thing
over upstairs, then surely someone
screaming at the top of their lungs and
someone else screaming at him would be
audible like it's, you know, I think you
Ben: did happen to the cat?
Is the cat just still
chillin with the corpses?
Matt: Yes, it's feeding on corpses.
It's it's just chowing down.
Jeremy: Yeah, last time we saw it,
it was licking Claire's corpse.
But yeah, the thing
Emily: was helping, was helping
Jeremy: doesn't work,
Emily: them.
Jeremy: that's difficult to figure out for
me, is that in order for him to be making
the calls from inside the house, he's
got to be going back and forth to Mrs.
Mac's room.
Like, from there to the
attic, so like, it's a little,
Matt: There's a second line somewhere.
Like it's it's like it gets a little what?
Also, you can't call yourself on the
phone line you're on I don't think even
back in the day when somebody had to
run and plug a cable into another cable
It was possible to call your own house.
Jeremy: They say, they say Mrs.
Mack has her own line.
So like, in her room, he
should be able to call the
house.
Matt: he's he's patched
in he's he's Yeah, he's
Emily: I mean it could be, the
line could be, have outlets
Matt: like a splitter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or, you know, look, he's, he's clearly
comfortable spider manning around
outside the, the sorority house.
So, you know, I can, I can buy that he
could, but the thing that always trips
me up is like, how do they not hear him?
If they can hear a cat,
knock a thing over.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: He is, still, like, I do think
you're right, like, with the phone
lines, them, Cause again, you do see
him when some of the phone calls are
being made, he is like, 25 feet away?
Like, just up a staircase, it is a
level of, I guess, I guess it's one
of those things where the movie just
requires a certain level of suspension
of disbelief, because without it, it's
like, yeah, you're going every scene
being like, how does nobody hear this?
Matt: Although, I mean, I also, it,
it, it feels like it would have been
a cool twist to that escape ending.
if the calls had been
like pre recorded, yeah.
And we're being played on a
tape
and they walk in and they, you know,
and they find a tape playing and then he
comes, you know what I mean, like there
could have, that maybe could have been
Ben: Yeah.
This is, because otherwise, this is
the, the only house of that archetype,
of that type, that just does not
have a single creaky floorboard,
Matt: Yeah, yeah.
And like, he's really screaming
and then there's the other person
screaming at him as well on the call,
Ben: which is presumably going out
Matt: or Agnes or whatever
her name is, you know?
Ben: Yeah, I think the 2006 remake
gets more into the backstory they
came up with but never used, and I
think it was better left as a mystery.
Matt: Yeah,
Yeah.
yeah.
It's just, it's never, yeah, always.
Emily: For me, it
Ben: so much, that's so much abilities
that you just get to input your,
whatever, it's that nothing is scary.
Whatever's the scariest motivation
and method, that's what you're
putting in, like, that's what
you're gonna imprint on the movie.
Emily: Yeah, this is
leading to imagination.
I did assume that it was a,
like, a recording the whole time.
Like, I assumed that he had some
sort of weird Also, because he was a
music major, you can't trust those.
That's not true.
You can't trust communication majors.
But what was that?
Jeremy: And it sounds legit.
Emily: Yeah, yeah but no, he, the,
the recording thing was feasible,
although, you know, thinking about
the, what was possible, I don't
know if he could have plugged in.
Anyway, this doesn't really matter,
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily: but it, you know, I think the
technology was excellent that he could
have, like, used a recording and it was
part of his, like, method or whatever.
Matt: And, you know, and it could have
been another thing too, where he had
control over the line in the house when
I think if they were then calling the
police, that they're talking to that it's
Billy quote unquote, taking the call.
And the police don't know that they're
calling for help and rescue because the
calls are being like, it felt like I
would have rather had a little bit more.
Around how Billy was operating
and fucking with them than the
posse looking for the missing girl
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: girl, like, especially because we
don't see the girl, she's not related
to the sorority, it's, it's kind of
just this, like, I guess it was useful
to get certain people where the plot
needed them to be at certain, you know,
people in and out of the house, but.
It kind of feels like a, a bit of
one element too many, or just one
that the plot, it didn't really
jive with the rest of the plot.
Matt: It's, I mean, it's a little
bit like Michael Myers art project
where he somehow steals his, Steals
Judith Myers uh, headstone and creates
a tableau in Laurie Strode's bed.
Jeremy: steals the headstone and
Matt: everybody, he's
You know what I mean?
Like, it's, it's, it's just sort of one
of those things of like, wait, what?
Oh, yeah, right.
Like, I always forget until I watch
the movie, like, oh, right, he stole
the tombstone and somehow carried it
upstairs.
And, yeah, it's, it's, it's
a weird thing that kind of,
Ben: that's what I love about Michael
Myers is that you think, you think
about him in your head, he's just like
this unfeeling, just, you know, almost
devoid of thought, killing machine.
But then you go back and you watch
the movies and it's like, oh, so he
decided to put on a ghost costume.
Matt: mm hmm, mm hmm.
He, he appreciates presentation
and tableau and he's a showman.
He's a showman.
He gives them a little razzle dazzle.
Emily: Yeah.
Matt: You know, originally,
before they called him The Shape,
they called him, uh, Jazz Hands.
Ben: like, again, to this day, they
say like, oh shit, it's 20 miles,
or it's like an hour's drive away
from the asylum he escapes from to
the town, I wanna know what, uh,
he was listening to on the radio.
Emily: That's a good,
that's a very good question.
Matt: Joe Walsh's life's
been good to me so far.
Jeremy: Yeah, that, that goes lovely
along with the fact that he's been
in an asylum since he was like, five,
but knows how to drive a car all the
way from there to Haddonfield without
Matt: hey, hey, who knows what he and Dr.
Loomis, you know, Michael, you're
doing excellent on your therapy,
let's, let's see, well, we're
gonna teach you how to drive.
Why did I teach Michael
Myers how to drive?
Ben: Why did I
think teaching stick shift
would cure him of evil?
Matt: You pronounced
Jeremy: makes me
more evil.
Matt: It's evil.
Ben: Oh,
Emily: yes.
Matt: Pleasant says it, it's evil.
Evil has come to your little hamlet.
Come
Emily: not have, played in God's territory
by teaching Michael Myers how to drive.
Don't, don't clone things, don't teach
Michael Myers how to drive, since these
are lessons we need to take from cinema.
That's
very
Jeremy: yeah,
Emily: good, thank you!
Jeremy: So, uh, yeah, to, to, to
Matt: is Fee Michael Myers.
Sorry, go ahead.
Jeremy: wrap up this
the story of the movie.
So we get like a sort of jump cut
to they're inside the house now.
The cops and everybody have
Jess up on this bed in her room.
I guess instead of going in an ambulance
or to the hospital or anything like
that, they've taken her up to her room.
They think the killer is dead
because she is, has killed Peter.
And Mr.
Harrison does a fantastic fainting act,
and everybody has to haul him out of
there so he can go to the hospital.
Jess doesn't need to go to the hospital.
Mr.
Harrison, very important
that he go right now.
We discovered that the, uh, cops
who all leave and turn off the
light and everything at this point,
so that she's left alone in the
sorority house by herself have
never even checked out the attic.
We get a sort of, you know, long pan down
the hall to, uh, you know, it looks like
he's getting ready to open the door and
lower himself down where only that there
will only be the sleeping dress down
there and then we hear the phone ring
from inside the house, which we know he
calls them when he's killed somebody.
So maybe he is killed.
Matt: And it rings and rings and no one
picks up, implying that, although she
has been sedated, the implication is
she's not alive to answer the phone.
Ben: and that's so chilling, that
the credits just keep going and the
phone just keeps ringing, like, damn,
this is one of my favorite endings.
Emily: It
Matt: great.
Emily: you.
Matt: It's pretty
Ben: Yeah.
Jeremy: It's really, really
chilling last few minutes there.
yeAh.
So, I mean, you talked about
it a little bit already.
Do we feel like this movie is feminist?
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: Oh, definitely.
Emily: yeah, I mean, for
the time, and absolutely
for
Ben: I would say for, I mean, the one
thing that's just fucking horrific and
misogynist is Barb saying it, and we've
dealt with, you know, Barb knowing that
she's an asshole and all of her self
loathing issues, and, you know, it's
supposed to be a reprehensible thing
she's saying in the universe too, so,
I mean, yeah, between the characters,
their actions, that they are fully
formed people with, you know, wants
and desires who are not exploited, and
especially all the pro choice messaging,
I, I think we gotta give, uh, Black
Christmas its feminist bona fides.
Emily: Yeah, for sure.
The, the fact that we have, I mean, like,
like we said before that there's this very
reasonable communication about abortion.
That Peter is definitely presented
to be unreasonable, right?
He's, he is an asshole and other
movies, his reasoning would maybe
be he would be the victim, right?
Like, I've, I've seen movies where his
character is the victim in this situation.
Jeremy: I feel like even into, like,
the 2000s, I can't imagine this plot
developing in this way and, like, What
would be a mainstream horror movie
like the, the way that you know, she is
treated as completely in the right as, you
know, wanting and demanding an abortion.
She, she does even she doesn't
have to tell him about it.
You know, and she does do
that and is like, very, like,
reasonable about that fact.
But like, yes, this is what I'm doing.
I'm having an abortion.
This is happening.
And I feel like, yeah, even as
recently as, you know, the 2000s,
I can't, I don't feel like.
People would have been okay with
that being the, like, thing in
the movie, or at least the, you
know, media wouldn't have been.
And
Emily: there would be a, it
would be really reactive.
Like it, you know, I don't think that
people can, I mean, it takes a lot
for a movie to have a discussion like
that now without it just consuming so
much of the plot where this is just.
A, an important character development
and, you know, yeah, the killer hangs up
on it, or is hung up on it, so to speak.
And then, you know, as Peter
is hung up on it, both of them.
And, you know, in the end.
Whether Peter was the killer or not.
Still doesn't matter because
he was still an asshole.
Matt: Well, yeah, yeah,
Emily: and, uh, oh, it's okay.
I was just gonna say that, like, also
the, the way that the, all of the women,
the women are sexually liberated, right?
Like, it's, it's no question, but
it's not like sexually liberated
in Friday the 13th or even you the
other one, Halloween's, you know,
the one we were just talking about.
There's nothing exploitative about
that, but they are there's a maturity
of the conversation about them that
doesn't need to be exploitative.
And, and their deaths are not
attributed to their sexuality either.
You know, there is judgment
going on, but the horror in their
deaths, there's, there's nothing
sexual about their deaths either.
Like, I mean, Barb gets killed
by the unicorn horn, but it's not
explicit in the way that another
movie would make it explicit.
Like, if
Matt: It's not giallo, right?
Like it's not, uh, there's, there's,
there's sexuality in the violence.
What little violence
there is, is not sexual,
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Yeah.
Jeremy: honestly, like, I don't even
think we have any idea what happened
to Phil, like, she's just laying
Ben: No.
Which I'm grateful for because
I don't want to see bad things
ever happen to Andrea Martin.
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah.
Matt: Yeah.
It, you know, Peter's reaction to, oh,
I've, I've, I've, I've gotten pregnant.
I'm having an abortion
is, but what about me?
Emily: Yeah.
Matt: uh, and everybody else, and
everybody else is in some, you know,
and I've always interpreted this
realization of this, this, this,
this, this unplanned pregnancy as
being the thing that crystallizes in
her mind, like we need to split up,
Emily: Yeah,
Matt: like she just got a glimpse of
a life with that guy and realized, Oh
no, no, no, no, no, no, this is bad.
Like, Like, I have always interpreted
that as like, Oh yeah, that is a
relationship that does not make it past
New Year, you know, like, like, Oh, this
is the wake up call I needed because
the idea of spending my life with you
and having a child is a nightmare.
And, and then he, you know, is exactly.
Jeremy: even if she doesn't beat
him to death with a fire poker.
Ben: that's not his, like, that's
the school's piano he smashes, right?
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: I was curious about that.
Emily: pretty sure.
I mean, I don't think he owns
the piano or the mic stand that
he uses to smash the piano.
So, you know, I see why
he's deciding to quit.
Ben: Yeah, like, I don't know much about
conservatories, but I don't think it's
Matt: you don't get a free.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You don't get a free piano.
That's for sure.
Emily: BYOP?
Ben: Yeah.
Bring your own piano.
Jeremy: Yeah, I, I think, I think
you're probably right on that.
Ben: Again, he's like, I decided
to leave, I'm like Yeah, dude,
I think that ship's sailed.
You, you destroyed a fucking grand piano.
Emily: Yeah,
that's the most violent
thing in the movie,
Ben: I don't think they let you stay
in music schools after you do that.
Emily: in terms of
cinematography at least.
Ben: Yeah,
Jeremy: no, uh, I don't feel like this
movie had a lot to say about, like, race,
because I don't think there are many non
white people, if any, really in it, other
than, like, as background characters.
Matt: It is.
It is very, it is very
Canadian in that way.
Emily: yeah, there was a black couple, and
they were not homeless people in the city.
Was nice, but you know, that's like,
Matt: Yeah, it's, it's very well, you
know, there's no indigenous represent.
Like, it's certainly, it's
certainly a very white movie.
Emily: It's not really about, you
know, it's, I don't think it really
was capable of talking about anything
else than what it was talking about.
Jeremy: It feels like it has a little
more to say about class, not a whole lot.
Um, you know, we, we do get,
I think, sort of different
Matt: know, I I just, I, I, yeah, I, I,
I think, I think it's impossible to, I, I
think abortion rights is, is a right to a,
a lane of, of life that especially in 1974
would have been otherwise unavailable.
To a mother, like for her, it's
very much like, no, I have plans.
I'm going to have a career.
I'm in school.
I have a future.
I have a profession.
I have a passion.
I have a vision for what my life is.
And it's not making sure you have dinner
when you walk in the door, you
know, like I, I think it's, I
think, I think her entire career.
That decision is about realizing her
life as a professional before she gets
married and has a baby and all that stuff.
So like, I, I don't know that
it's necessarily explicit in text,
but I just, I don't know how to,
it's such an economic decision,
Emily: Yes.
And, also it represents in their
conversation, it represents his
misunderstanding of how, like, his
privilege, because he's like, oh, you
can get married and do whatever you want.
No, he can get married
and do whatever he wants.
She can't do that.
Jeremy: I love that she very explicitly,
he's like, I will drop out of the
conservatory and I'll go get a job.
And she's like, you may have given
up on your dreams, but I have not.
Like, I have got shit I'm going to do.
And it's not going to jive
with having your baby.
Emily: and that, and Monkey D.
Luffy does not stand for that.
I'm just putting it right
now because this is topical.
Jeremy: He's very pro, you
know, following your dreams.
Emily: Yes.
Dreamin
Jeremy: uh, how do we
feel
Ben: you, did you just reference
the four kids one piece rap?
Emily: Continue, Jeremy,
what you're saying?
Jeremy: how do we feel like
this movie does deal with
mental illness such as it does?
Emily: It's not overly condemning of it,
Ben: it's not an explicit theme.
I mean, it's definitely
not an explicit theme.
I would think, you know, it's, it's
clearly got a sympathetic view for Barb's
self destructive cycle that she's on I
mean, I get, again, it was 1974, serial
killers were such a new thing, the
mindhunter guys hadn't mindhunted yet,
Emily: They were mind hunting as we spoke.
Ben: they were actively mindhunting,
so, you know, I'm not gonna, with
Billy and stuff like that, you know,
depending on how you feel about that,
if that, you chalk that up to, if you
consider that mental health, you know,
I'm not gonna condemn this movie too
harsh based on our understanding now
of what was then an incredibly new
and not well understood phenomenon.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: It doesn't make the psycho
mistake of attributing it to
a specific mental illness that
they don't quite understand, and,
you know, putting that on other people
Matt: Although I, I, I've never
read that Psycho is, is blaming the
condition, I think it's like, because
the question that's answered in
that whole thing is like, well, why
was he dressed up like his mother?
Jeremy: Yeah.
Matt: I don't think it's, it's, it's
not, why did he kill those people?
Well, you know what I mean?
Ben: the psycho example is where you kinda
gotta separate the text from the impact.
Cause the movie does explicitly
go out of its way to say, like,
this guy is not transgender.
Like, that is a thing and
that is not what he is.
Like, this is something
totally separate with the mom.
And, but just because the movie says that,
you know, that is a lie in the movie,
that doesn't mean that, you know, over
the decades It hasn't, you know, that's
still been some of the impact or like,
you know, the visibility.
So I think, and again, not to condemn
anyone involved in the making of
Psycho, but you know, just I guess,
you know, just cognitive dissonance,
juggling all those different
Matt: like intent, you know, uh, intent
is never, you know, regardless of
your intent, however it's received.
I always felt like I was, I think
they were trying really hard and
they just didn't have the tools to
Ben: Yeah.
Matt: it, you
Emily: yeah,
Ben: Agree.
I think with this one though,
the, at every turn, the
mystery works to the movie's
advantage.
Emily: yes.
Absolutely, and I'm glad, like, like,
it has been said, you know, I'm glad
that there's not a specific condition,
they're not talking about whatever fake
psychology was happening during the time,
you know, because that was, the psychology
was basically like magic, even in the
70s you know, especially in film, but I
Jeremy: As we witnessed in the brood,
we're, is, actual weird, bizarre magic.
Emily: that's David Kernenberg,
and I don't think we should measure
how cinema clocks psychology
based on David Kernenberg.
Matt: That's fair.
That's fair.
Emily: um,
Matt: something like, you know, even
Friday the 13th is like, oh, Pamela
Voorhees wants revenge against inattentive
teens that allowed her son to drown.
Emily: yeah,
Matt: Like, it's just revenge.
It's like these, these kids were, were
playing grab ass and my kid drowned and
now I'm gonna kill kids who come to this
camp and like, it's never, oh, well, she,
she had a terrible snap from reality,
but it's just like, oh, it's revenge.
It's a clean, it's a really clean
fucking story until the frog boy, you
know, jumps out of the lake at the end.
But like, it's, um, it's kind of
the thing about Halloween that, that
doesn't sit well with me is like, yeah.
The, the quasi Oedipal, wait, so he saw
his sister getting, getting it on and
then decided to kill her?
You know what I mean?
Like, and, and that's, and talk
about a sexual killing, like that's,
you know, way more explicit, right?
Emily: he was all wrapped up in sex at
the very beginning when they just, you
know, when they were trying to describe
his whole, like, his origin, which,
Matt: Yeah, yeah, it
Ben: Friday the 13th from part three
onward, he just has this, you know,
a very clean motivation of he wants
to show off his new hockey mask.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: He's very proud.
He wants everyone to see it.
It took, it took him three movies
to get a look that doesn't suck.
Emily: dude in this movie has
a better hockey mask, though.
Ben: Oh,
Jeremy: So I guess it's
pretty
Ben: great
hockey mask.
Emily: That hockey mask, like, upset
me in ways that I found, like, me
questioning myself, like, am I, am
I conditioned by Jason Voorhees?
is There some sort of, like, do I
have some sort of internalized racism
about these colors or something?
Like, I don't know what
is happening with these
Ben: I am a, I am a big fan of all
the ambiguity and the lack of answers
around Billy because man does,
is he just so terrifying as this.
Almost elemental totemic, concept
Matt: He's like a, he's like a
child pulling wings off a fly.
It's
Ben: Yeah,
Matt: remorseless, you
can't reason with it.
It's what the really scary thing is.
It's, you know, there's
no there's no method.
There's no reasoning.
It's just, oh, you're, you're in my
little menagerie and I'm going to
kill you one at a time, you know?
Ben: Even without the murder, I mean,
Take away the murder, this is a guy
who got a hold of a phone number,
And has decided, I am now just
gonna terrorize women without end.
Because I can, and because it's
funny and makes them feel powerful.
Matt: a little, a little M.
M.
at Walsh and the Jerk, right?
Goddamn random bastard,
son of a bitch, random.
Just picked a number out of the book
and like, oh, jackpot, six girls, yes.
Ben: Yeah, like, honestly, it's like,
Hell, it's like, it reminds me of,
you know, This is decades before the
internet's a thing, but, you know,
all of the vitriol and abuse that,
you know, women face, that so many
women can face just existing on the
internet, and how, I don't know, it
just reminded me of that, just, you
know, just that, just the abuse that
just comes with existing in the, in this
Matt: Yeah, they're not any of
them, like, this is not the first
prank call they have dealt with.
It is a reality of things.
Jeremy: Yeah, and I mean, even, even
like in the last, I want to say 10,
15 years, my, my wife used to work
at a like a property management place
where, you know, they had to answer
the phone that was part of her job.
And, you know, she would get heavy
breathing, creepy phone calls that,
you know, at that job and if they,
they called and got, you know, one
of the men that worked there, they'd
just hang up and then, you know,
call again until they, they got
one of the women that worked there.
Yeah, like that's still very
much a reality, even with all the
guards we have against it now.
Emily: yeah, and well, and to go back
to the feminism question, I mean, it is
feminist, yes, but that's another point to
that is that this movie is talking about
that in a very, like, I don't know, at the
time it was profound, you know, because
these calls were a precursor to murder.
And they had a very good reason
for being scared of these calls,
and the cops still dismissed it,
and then because the cops dismissed
it, everybody fucking died, right?
So we have this narrative where it's not
a joke, and they are struggling against
the lasting, and to this day, lasting
dismissive, Or dismissal, I should
say, of that happening, especially with
sororities, you know, anywhere that is
known to have a number of women living
there and there's, there's going to
be a certain amount of harassment and
to this day, a lot of people just sit
there and deal with it because it's
not worth making a big deal out of.
And that's another
thing with Barb is that.
What she does in that moment, maybe
we have had a lot of friends that have
done that in the past, but like, if you
really look at the number of friends
of yours that have had that happen, it
takes maybe 10 or so, or maybe forever
for one of them to actually, like, be
able to speak up and be like, fuck off
to the person on the phone, because it's
just so fucking scary and violating.
Matt: Sure.
Sure.
Emily: And this movie talks about that.
It doesn't, I don't know.
And it doesn't preach about
it, which is also interesting.
I don't think it was you know, I
don't think it had time or even
the interest, but the fact that
that was just taken as read,
Jeremy: Even in the moment she's
doing it, Phil is like, do you
really want to provoke somebody like
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah.
for sure.
So, you know, there's a, there's like
all this conflicting stuff about it.
That is not something that,
that men were used to hearing.
Or that they were used to hearing
without being like, well, it's
just, just some dude having a good
Matt: Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, come on.
What's the big deal?
It's only a thing that makes
you worried for your safety and
the privacy of your own home.
Emily: Yeah.
Matt: No big deal This is something I,
a man, have never considered, you know,
like it's it's what do you think another
thing about John Saxon showing up?
Is he's he is like listening
and taking them seriously and
even if it is all bullshit He's
gonna get to the bottom of it.
Like
Ben: Yeah, at the very least
he makes them feel heard.
Matt: yes
Emily: he does.
And he tries, but I think that 1 of the
lessons taken there is that he, even
though he tries and he's an authority
figure, the system is so fucked up
that he just can't get past that.
And he's, he's rendered helpless by it.
Jeremy: It's nice to watch him
embarrass Nash a few times in that
section, just be like, you don't
know what the fuck you're doing.
You're very bad at your job.
Yeah, it's appreciated at
that point in the movie.
Yeah, the other big thing, you know, we
want to talk about, we talked a little
bit about it before, but generally any
sort of LGBTQIA themes and characters in
this, the only real thing I could think
of is, we talked quite a bit about Barb,
Ben: Yeah, I think, yeah, I think we
tackled Barb's compulsory heterosexuality.
Emily: And the, and the lesbian cabon
that's going on with Phil and Jess.
Jess, Jess.
Jeremy: Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
So, I don't know, it's interesting.
I feel like looking around the internet
there have been, there are plenty of
other people who, you know, women who have
related to that and seeing her as either
gay or bisexual or just generally queer.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: And you know,
I think that lines up.
Ben: Kidder's just got some
real queer energy in this movie.
I just, at a certain point I don't know
what to say other than, Girls got vibes.
Jeremy: yeah, and then like she
definitely reminds me of several
queer female friends I've had before
that are just like dealing with it.
She's just dealing it with it with
booze and dark humor Like that's just
how she's getting through the shit
Ben: Yeah.
Yeah.
I think, uh, is that it?
Are we, uh, Is that, have we wrapped up
our discussion of Black Christmas tonight?
Jeremy: yeah, do we want to say
I guess it sounds like we all
recommend this movie, right?
And
some people should
check out
Ben: yeah.
Matt: It's, it's, you listen
to this Thanksgiving week.
There's no better way to kick off the
official rush to Christmas tomorrow on
Black Friday than with Black Christmas.
Emily: Black
Ben: I will say, One more
testament to, uh, Barbie being gay.
She does refer to herself as the
fastest tongue in the West at one point.
Emily: That's right.
That's
Ben: So,
Emily: but she could play good piano.
Jeremy: yeah.
Yeah, I think, like, if you watch
this movie on Black Friday, this will
probably be the least scary thing
that happens to you on Black Friday,
so, you know, it's, it's a good time.
I think it's
definitely
Matt: were lucky.
I had to go to Target.
Emily: Yeah, I got trampled.
Jeremy: You'll definitely meet
people at least as psychotic as
Billy at Target on Black Friday, so,
Emily: Also the cat does not die
Jeremy: yeah.
Emily: as we know.
Ben: yes.
Jeremy: The cat
is, uh,
Ben: Attic treats.
Jeremy: yeah, the cat's a collaborator.
Emily: No, the cat was helping,
the cat was trying to unwrap her.
Jeremy: think the cat was
luring people to their deaths.
Emily: No, the cat was trying to, to,
the cat was the only one who was telling
people where they were, but they couldn't
tell what the cat was saying because they
don't speak cat, and that's their fault.
Jeremy: The cat just wants more meat
snacks and she's, the cat is bringing
them to Cod, I think was the cat's name,
right?
Yeah.
Emily: name for a cat.
Ben: Yeah, yeah, that's some solid
wordplay right
Matt: a good pun.
Jeremy: Yeah.
So as far as, uh, recommendations,
does anybody have anything they
want to recommend to people,
either related to this or not?
Just any, any cool movies?
Or
Ben: Uh, I've been watching Fullmetal
Alchemist Brotherhood with my
partner, and it's still the really,
really, really, really good anime.
Emily: Has everything
Ben: do with has nothing to do with Black
Christmas, but it's all I got right now.
Emily: You know, follow
your dreams, like Monkey D.
Luffy.
The monkey, the Netflix series is a
lot better than it has any right to be.
Ben: Oh my god, bring on Season 2.
I need it.
Emily: Jamie Lee Curtis.
Jamie Lee
Curtis,
as
Ben: It's happening.
Emily: Whatever, like, Chopper's mom.
Anyway, but no, I, you know, if you really
want, like, I would highly recommend this
movie watch Psycho, watch the other phone
movie we talked about, please help, that's
not the name of it, I'm asking you guys
for
Jeremy: More than Stranger
Calls,
Matt: stranger
Emily: Calls, yeah, that and then
watch Scream, and just have, like,
an idea of how phones and slashers
have evolved through the ages.
I'm sure there's a lot of essays
that horror enthusiasts have
written about that, and they're
on the internet somewhere.
Matt: You know, Kayla Janisse, who's
a film writer and programmer in Canada
edited a book called Yuletide Terror.
That is like a survey of
Christmas horror themes.
It's really, really terrific.
I know you can buy it it.
Digitally and she had
come across a inventory.
I don't think she knew she
had or didn't have access to.
So for a while, the physical
copy was, was available again.
But, uh, yeah, Kayla Janisse
is a great incredible sure at
the house of psychotic women,
um, which is one of my absolute
favorite books about like that.
And and women and chainsaws are like
it's, it feels like the extension of that.
It's she's an incredible writer.
She, Just has seen everything
and has wonderful, very
intuitive kind of way of writing.
But yeah, so Yuletide Terror is a lot of
fun if you're, uh, into other Christmas
horror which, which I very much am.
Let's see, I saw Bottoms last week.
It was really terrific.
Um, now that it's, now that it's November,
as people are listening to this, I'm, I
can't imagine it's still in theaters but
really needs to be seen with a big crowd.
Emily: Hey, good to
know.
Matt: so, yeah, yeah,
Bottoms, check it out.
Jeremy: Fantastic, that's
Matt: Oh, wait, and, and Monarch,
Legacy of Monsters on Apple TV, that I
Emily: Oh, yeah.
I
Matt: that out.
Emily: really good.
I hear that has the writing
is really good on that show.
Jeremy: Particularly,
what was it, Episode 8?
Right here.
Really strong, really strong writing.
Matt: No, it wasn't.
But they're all wonderfully written.
Mariko Tamaki is on our writing staff.
She wrote an episode.
We've, uh, and, and Chris Black, my
co creator and co EP who did Outcast
and, and, and some Star Trek stuff.
And and we've got a, we had an amazing
room full of terrific writers who've
written all kinds of great stuff.
Yeah, check it out.
Jeremy: Fantastic.
Emily, did you have something
you wanted to recommend?
Emily: Oh, I was recommending
the psycho and scream
and
Jeremy: get to go full metal alchemist.
Got it, right.
Matt: And you know what?
And watch A Christmas Story by Bob Clark,
Emily: I was gonna say!
Matt: how he shoots it the same way.
And
Jeremy: an interesting double feature.
Matt: yeah,
Guy made two, guy made
two Christmas movies.
He only made one Porky's,
but he made two Christmas
Ben: I am excited, we've got, uh,
Silent Night coming up with John Woo
directing a Christmas action movie.
Matt: Man, I gotta say, I was into it, and
then, like, the kid dies in the trailer.
And it, it feels very, oh, you
know, oh, you think John Wick
had it bad with his dog dying?
This dude's fuckin kid dies.
Ben: Honestly, realistically, I'm gonna
be way more connected to the John Wick
dog than I am to the The Silent Night Kid.
Matt: Yeah,
it's just like, it's just when the
kid dies in the trailer to inspire the
rip roaring rampage of revenge, like,
Ben: It worked in face
off and never again.
Matt: yeah, I don't, I don't know, it's,
it's, it's, uh,
Ben: worked in face off.
Matt: yeah, uh,
yeah,
Emily: don't know if
that's what worked in face
Ben: Yeah.
Worked might not be, worked
might be a strong word.
Emily: There are things
that functioned in face off.
It was memorable.
Jeremy: Well,
Ben: Wait, which was also John Woo.
This is just John Woo killing
kids to motivate protagonists
Matt: just a, it's just a, it's
a, it's just such a cheap, easy.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: a whole freezer full of children,
Yeah, speaking of things that are
memorable so I, I was going back and forth
through a couple of Kahn's last few weeks,
and I, I got to get an early start on my
scary movie month and I watched something
I had weirdly never seen, which is the
original Fright Night, which is yeah is,
a movie that is incredibly gay for Chris
Sarandon, like, that, that movie loves
Chris Sarandon passionately, like, it
just really spends a lot of time on him,
like, him just leaning into shots and him
just being the most the whole time it's
a lot of fun, it's really enjoyable, it
feels like once you get to, like, the
third act, it's like, it doesn't really
want to do the action stuff, it just
wants to, like, Do fun vampire stuff.
But like it's, it's a lot
of fun to to check out.
Matt: You get to watch Marcy from
Married with Children pretend to be 17.
It's great.
Clearly 34 years old
when she made that movie.
Jeremy: yeah, it's, it's, it
doesn't even make her, her
castings didn't even make sense.
They were just like.
We want to have this actress in it.
What female characters do we have?
Um, yeah, so I think it's it's a
lot of fun if you haven't seen it
I mean, we'll almost certainly talk
about it on here at some point.
But it's a lot of fun.
It's a goofy 80s vampire movie it does
have
Matt: that's such an undersell.
That's such an undersell.
Lost Boys is a goofy 80s vampire movie.
Fright Night is about a horror host
and turns out the horrors are real.
Come
Emily: that's,
Jeremy: yeah, yeah, I mean, I have,
Matt: It's not, it doesn't really
rise up to the promise of the
premise, but like, it goes for it.
It's,
you know,
Jeremy: I have a deep and
abiding passion for Lost
Boys, but, you know,
Emily: Lost Boys is an experience.
that's
Jeremy: I feel like it has as much
to do with the age I was when I
first saw Lost Boys as anything else.
It's just like something fixated on.
But yeah, we've, we've
already
Matt: being so excited that a scene
in the movie took place in a comic
book shop that I convinced myself it
was a better movie than it really was.
Emily: The movie's fine.
Jeremy: I don't, I wouldn't
say the movie is a good movie.
I just really enjoy
Matt: Yeah, yeah.
And I know the taste is subjective, but
in this case it's not, it's actually
objective, and Lost Boy objectively sucks.
Emily: Alicia, cut this.
We don't want Matt
getting backlash from our
Matt: I'll stand by it, there's
a lot of horror, I'm sure there's
a lot of movies, horror movies,
especially that people think, but I
think Lost Boy is demonstratively,
it's a bad vampire movie.
Ben: well, this is why I enjoy doing
a horror podcast because nobody ever
comes at us with like super angry
opinions about like, scream four.
Matt: Very
right.
Jeremy: yeah, just,
just,
you know, having talked to you
Ben: a no superhero movie
discourse rule on this show.
Jeremy: I mean, just having talked
to you about, uh, horror movies you
like, just don't go back and listen to
our Texas Chainsaw Massacre episode.
Matt: Yeah, no, I get it.
I get it.
Like that's a, I, I, I get it.
I don't even, you know what I mean?
Like, yeah, totally get it.
Emily: yeah.
Jeremy: That one's one that's
just, just not a me thing.
Speaking about a me thing you, to
wrap up, Matt, let people know,
uh, where they can find you and
what all you're up to, including,
uh, where they can find your show.
Matt: The show's called Monarch Legacy of
Monsters, and it's on Apple TV starting
November 17th, I believe that is its
worldwide premiere date, but it was yeah,
so it's Kurt Russell and Godzilla, and
an astonishing cast, and I, I don't know.
Hope to God the writer's the actor's
strike is resolved because our cast
are amazing and they deserve all the
attention and applause in the world
for the work they do on the show.
It looks incredible.
We shout around the world.
Yeah, keep your eyes open for that.
And you can't find me anywhere.
I don't, I'm not I'm not on
social media and, uh, will not be.
So, you know.
Uh, I'll see you around.
Jeremy: It's a good plan
not being on social media.
Ben: Yep, very good plan.
Jeremy: Emily, let us know about, uh,
your mistakes being on social media.
Emily: Oh, there, there are many.
Megamoth.
net, has all of my socials on
there eventually a, you know,
concise online portfolio, but just
check me out at
Matt: said it very fast.
What was it?
Emily: Megamoth.
net.
I'm Megamoth on Twitter and on BlueSky.
And mega underscore moth on Instagram,
which is where I post the most art.
That's not my Patreon, bro.
Patreon.
com slash mega moth.
Like a moth, bro.
I do, I'm doing a thing with my hands.
I
know this is
Matt: it.
Yeah, I got it.
It's, it's, yeah.
Jeremy: We can
Emily: bro, you guys
can hear the flapping?
Jeremy: Oh yeah.
Everybody can hear that.
Ben, what about you?
Ben: Uh, you can find me
at, ben con comics.com.
Uh, ben Con comics on Instagram.
Ben the con on Twitter.
We'll not call it X.
And, uh, yeah, pick up some of
the books I've had coming out.
Elle Campbell wins their weekend.
Uh, is out in bookstores now.
My middle grade prose debut.
And keep your eye out.
Check out, uh, Captain
Laserhawk over on Netflix.
And then check out the Captain Laserhawk
manga from Tokyopop that I was the
writer on, uh, coming out this winter.
Of
Jeremy: As for me, you can find me
on Twitter and Instagram is jrome58.
And you can find me on Tumblr
and Blue Sky is Jeremy Whitley.
The, uh, second volume of School for
Extraterrestrial Girls, which I do with
Jamie Noguchi, is out right now and my
new book from Titan is, uh, available
for order and for coming out in February,
that's called The Cold Ever After, it's
my first, like, adult graphic novel.
So there's, there's there's
nudity and then killing in it.
So, I've gone so long without doing
any of those things in comics.
So definitely check those out.
And of course, check out the,
uh, podcast at Progressively
Horrified, or at Prog Horror Pod
on Twitter progressivelyhorrified.
transistor.
fm.
And wherever you are listening
to podcasts, we are There.
And we would love to hear from you,
so leave us, uh, you know, reviews,
comments let us know what you think.
We would, love to get five star reviews.
It helps, uh, us find more people,
which then helps us make more stuff,
which really just benefits you in
the end, so why not go review us?
Emily: We're on the Patreon.
Jeremy: yeah, join the Patreon,
help us keep doing this.
Thanks so much for all of you
joining us, and thank you so much,
Matt Fraction, for joining us.
This was
Matt: Jeremy, thank you for asking.
Thank you for having me, you guys.
I really
Emily: Of course.
Ben: course.
Thank you so much for coming on.
This was so wonderful
having you on tonight.
Matt: Any, any, any opportunity to
rewatch Black Christmas I'll take.
Thanks.
Emily: You're welcome to come
back and watch Black Christmas
again with us if you like.
Matt: Does it have to
be one of the remakes?
Emily: No?
Matt: Great.
I'm in.
Great.
That's
Jeremy: Just watch this annually.
Matt: Woohoo!
Emily: Flap.
Jeremy: it.
That's the new podcast.
It's the Black Christmas podcast.
, thanks as always to Ben and Emily.
Thanks to all of you for listening.
And until next time, stay horrified.