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The Honest Money Show is your guide to understanding what money really is — and why today’s system isn’t working. Hosted by Anja Dragovic, this show cuts through the noise to explore how money shapes our lives, where it’s gone wrong, and what a better future could look like. Along the way, you'll discover how Bitcoin fits into the bigger picture — not as hype, but as a serious response to a broken system. Whether you're curious, skeptical, or already down the
Hi, Andy,
welcome to Honest Money.
Thanks for having me.
Hello.
I noticed recently
you were on Sean's
Good Day podcast.
So anyone who's interested
in getting to know more about
you can watch that as well.
But I wanted to start
with your origin story.
We met over Twitter
and became friends and.
Yeah, like you,
just someone from Victoria
who's in our community.
And I found it
very interesting
that you haven't
been to a Bush bash,
which I'm going to roast you
for during this session.
And I don't know
if you've also been to any
of the local meetups
in Melbourne.
You know what?
So, it's funny
you say that and,
I mean, I've,
going back to,
how I first
got into Bitcoin.
It was into 2014.
So at the
time we just come
out of the GFC.
I was probably working
my second professional job,
and, I was into,
you know, training, lifting,
eating, dieting,
all that sort of stuff
and had been since,
you know, the mid 2000
and had a lot of friends,
that I would train with.
And one of them
was like me
and into lifting
and eating,
and he was also into finance
and accounting like myself.
So I'd done a,
bachelor's degree,
in accounting
and finance,
and he,
I was
always under the impression
that, you know,
property was the way to go.
I was saving for a deposit.
I hadn't actually, you know,
owned anything,
and I was saving.
And as any, you know,
B20 sort of person,
even now,
I guess, go through
is you
kind of go through that cycle
where you try and save enough
for a deposit to live.
It just gets
really, really difficult.
So he
I remember he was emailing me
one day during the day
and he mentioned to me
that, there's
this thing called bitcoin.
And to buy it,
and it's going to be
the coin of the future.
Well, I guess
at the time
there was probably
a handful of coins.
I remember
choosing from was
between Bitcoin and Litecoin.
They were the two
that sort of stuck out to me.
And he told me
just to buy one of them
as one of them will take off.
And it's the coin
of the future.
So, so I did
I bought Bitcoin,
and luckily, in hindsight,
but why I bought
Bitcoin was,
just
on a whim, on his advice.
Now he was someone who was
definitely not
someone that was
into property.
He was always anti property,
if anything.
And he was renting
in the CBD.
So for him it was
kind of,
honestly at the time,
I don't know
if he had done his research
or anything like that, but,
he saw it as a good thing.
And that was kind of
I kind of respected him,
as a person
and as,
you know, someone in
finance.
Yeah.
I mean, I bought
some coins
at the time,
yeah.
And then I just kept buying,
I guess I've been in Bitcoin
for 11 years now,
and I haven't
gone to any meetups.
I haven't been active.
It's ridiculous, I know.
In fact,
I've only been on
the Twitter slash
X community since,
I think probably,
early mid last
year, you.
So yeah,
I think
I had a Twitter account
back in back during Covid.
I signed up,
but for some reason
I was banned.
I like
I never
actually haven't commented
nothing, but I was banned
and I didn't like
I couldn't use my account,
so I just never went on,
which is which is a shame.
I would have met,
a lot
more people a lot sooner,
during my journey.
So, Yeah, it's it's
it's it's quite funny, but
like, like I've told you,
I'm looking to
to change it and sort of
get myself
out there a little bit
more and make the people.
It's.
I think
the community is actually,
yeah, it's great community.
It's one of the
best communities
I'll be part of.
I'll be part of the
lifting community.
That's very
segregationist, I guess.
And I can
you can assume that,
you know,
or you could say that
the cryptocurrency
space
is also very segregationist,
but I kind of don't really
look at that.
I just look at the
Bitcoin community, which.
Yeah, from the surface
it looks very wholesome and
and fun.
But,
but yeah like I do join
Twitter spaces.
But like I do join
a few of them Aussie ones.
I join
a lot of the American ones.
It's great,
I love it,
and I
just love talking
about Bitcoin.
As you can tell.
I will tell.
Do you talk about
Bitcoin at your work?
Look.
It's a good question.
It's a good question.
Can I just like
sometimes I kind
of remove myself from from,
I don't know, from my lens.
And I look at it
from someone else's lens,
and I feel like
you can come across
as very preachy.
You can come across it.
You know, people often
don't like a Jehovah's
Witness to come
knocking on their front door.
I kind of feel like
sometimes it's
a bit like that.
So
people know I love Bitcoin at
work,
especially my
immediate work colleagues.
So I'll only talk about it
when they talk about it.
Right?
Or I'll,
I'll try and legitimize
it somehow.
Like for example, it's
it might
it's a bias in itself.
So that kind of gets
people thinking, oh,
you know,
they, they,
they associate stupa
as being a legitimate
way to, or,
fund for your retirement,
you combining it
with Bitcoin,
it sort of sort of sparks
their interest.
And they do ask questions.
Yeah.
And obviously
the majority of the people
think of it as,
as just a trading
cryptocurrency
degenerate sort of,
tool
to make money.
I do like, yeah.
Like sometimes
I might wear a polo
with a little logo on a
or I'll get, like,
one of my miners
sent to the office.
And a lot of people,
I'll just have it
sitting on my desk
and it invites people.
So it's not me going out
and telling them about it.
Invite them
to talk to me about it.
And I
found it very effective.
So,
I will
keep doing it that way.
Until Bitcoin.
You know what's funny?
Because Bitcoin recently
has hit the mainstream news
and people come to me
to talk about it,
you know,
so and half the time
because I don't
read much of the news
they're showing me articles
that I've never seen before.
So but to me the
the articles are
not a surprise.
I know Bitcoin's inevitable,
but to these people it's
kind of like, yeah,
oh it's it's over
100 K now us
what's this?
What's going on?
And yeah, it's,
it's it's
gotten to that stage
where people come to me
and talk about it.
And I prefer that
to be honest. So.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Compared to previous cycles,
how do you feel
this cycle like
obviously you've been in it
for a while.
I find being
part of the community
so important
because every time
I get emotional
or I'm not sure
about something,
I can always ask
someone who's been in it
for longer.
And sometimes I find that I,
I have moments
where I'm like, is
this really
like going to work out?
Are there any risks
that I'm forgetting?
And then
I just have to, like,
sit down with myself
and remember
just how fiat works
and how bitcoin works?
I'm like, oh yeah, I'm safe.
Like I'm good.
But like,
how do you think
this cycle is compared to
others?
Are more
people are interested
or you think it's quieter?
It's definitely quiet.
It's definitely quiet.
We don't have that same,
parabola
as, the 2021,
or the around
that 2017, 2018
cycle.
I mean, 20
when I first bought 2014,
it was just like
I remember
I was buying for $500
Australia at the time,
and it was just like bubbling
and it went down to half
that went up a little bit
and it was sort of a nothing,
and obviously
there was no money in it.
So it was very different.
To really compare
that cycle to today,
I'd say today
you can sort of
compare it to the Covid 2020
or 2021 sort
of, area.
But it's funny because,
only August
last year we were at we,
I think we bought him that 57
cake with the Japanese.
And Kari tried
and it was so much fear
in the market.
I mean, we'd
hit a high end around that.
I think it was Feb,
March, April area when we
low 70s, I think it was.
And then we
dropped down to 57.
I mean, where,
where, you know,
we hit 120 4k
and we're currently
at about 107
and a half came out.
We were more
than, you know,
it's more than half it.
It's it's 50% difference.
Like people
like the volatility
all that shit I like it.
But then when I
experience it,
even for people that have
been in since,
you know, 20, 20,
they just can't handle it.
They,
they know what
they're in for,
but they can't
handle that kind of thing.
So it is really weird.
And I guess Covid,
the whole
distrust of government
was sort of in your face.
So again,
it was very different.
I mean, it
it has the hallmarks
of previous cycles,
but I think
it's very quiet today
to what it was
in that late
stage of 2020 and 2021,
especially when we double
topped, our at 20
mid 21.
I think it's a
healthy I
think it's healthy
at the moment.
We're at these levels.
It stayed quiet.
I mean I'm getting
I'm getting people
messaging me
saying it's done.
I'm like,
have you been eating Bitcoin
for five minutes at this?
Like,
this is when
you should be getting it.
You know, when Warren Buffett
says, you know, buy
when there's
blood in the streets,
people say, oh yeah, that's
easy to do, I'll do that.
But I mean, blood
is in the Straits
now relatively
to, you know, a month ago
we had 120 4k
and people think it's over.
Like how short is your memory
kind of thing.
So yeah,
it's, it's
the only constant exchange.
So I think it has
the hallmarks
of prior cycles,
but it's very similar.
And there's still a bit
of volatility.
It's obviously down.
But I it
this is why I love Bitcoin.
It, it,
I can see where it's
going in the highs.
But then when it hits
the lows it enables me
to double down on my thesis
and and to stack even more.
So it's kind of like a gift
to me you know,
like if I'm buying a spy
or something like that,
there's no there.
I mean,
there are opportunities
to buy dips,
but they're not as
big as the dips
in Bitcoin.
Yeah I love it.
Yeah.
It's it's just Bitcoin
has always resonated with me
very well.
I've never lost that
resolution to buy more.
I know I've watched stacked
and I'll continue to stack
even when the price is
$1 million.
I'll continue to stack.
It suits my personality.
I guess.
Yeah.
So speaking of spy, like,
I know that
you're in property.
I know that
you're in Bitcoin.
Are you also in equities?
In other asset classes?
Well, I used to be like
you can call
being in super
super easy.
I mean by default
you're going to
be in equities.
So in a way I had
and it's funny
you mentioned that.
Ehm, so in 20
I think it was 2015,
one of my friends told me
about a penny stock
to buy a penny stock.
And I did buy,
a lot of this penny stock
and it went
I bought it at one point,
I think it was $0.20
at the time,
and I wrote it up to $0.31.
And then I thought, oh, yeah,
this is going to go to $1.
This is, you know,
this is a great thing.
It's a biotech company.
It's doing good things.
Problem is
they try to you know,
they tried to do what
MSCI does at the moment.
And issue
more stock
instead of to buy
investments.
And they used it
to fund their,
you know,
their research development.
But their research
and development
never really materialized.
And it went,
you know, I sold out
at a huge loss.
I think I put like, yeah,
I put like 30 grand out.
And when I wrote
all the way down
to about two
and a half grand,
and at the time
I was still in Bitcoin,
I was still buying
bits of Bitcoin here
and there because
it was cheap.
And I
thought, you know,
I'm not going to be
on a whim
of someone of a, of a board,
of a corporation,
of a person,
of a research
and development team.
This has none of that.
It performs well.
It's come from nothing.
So why am I wasting my time
in a stock in a penny
stock of all things?
So, I mean, if you
if you're better suited
to those, you know,
those slow, consistent 11%,
annualized gains,
then that's fine.
But for me, I'm not,
I'm it doesn't suit
my personality.
My, my why,
I guess I'm
someone who's, you know,
anti the system.
I would opt out of the system
and buying a spy doesn't.
It doesn't fit my narrative.
Right.
I have friends
who are in the spy.
If they'll very well,
they'll continue to buy.
And when I'm sort of
when people ask my advice, I
don't offer Bitcoin as a,
as a first off,
I always tell them maybe
they should look
at buying a spy,
which I did in 2020.
I was working with someone.
Price had crashed
and I told them
to buy the index and he did,
and he talked to me
about a year later
and he said,
my one regret was
not buying more.
So imagine if I,
you know, told him to buy
Bitcoin
would have been
a different story altogether.
I mean,
it would have been
the same story,
but he would have
been so much better off.
So like I don't knock it.
But again, I,
I'm very it's may it's
sort of like the
gateway to bitcoin.
If you like a spy.
And you want to
you want to go,
you want to outperform it.
Then there's,
there is something else
that out there right.
And I've also
been in property
and all of them very well
in residential property,
but to me, like
so I own a property
in the,
in the Melbourne suburbs.
Right.
It's about 15km
north of the CBD.
And I bought it,
you know, at a
at the high high
to be five hundreds.
It's now worth.
And this was in mid 2023.
It's now worth
there's thousands equivalent
then sold for 730
K around New York.
Right.
And you look at
on the surface and obviously
I've done pretty well.
But during that time
there's been so much cost
obviously the loan.
And people always say that
because you can leverage
a property,
you can exponentially
grow your wealth,
which is true.
But,
I've modeled out
the performance
of one Bitcoin and today's
prices versus
my property.
Given my launch value ratio
on that is about 60%.
And all the expenses
and the income
and the growth
of what
I think that's
going to achieve
over the next ten years.
And ChatGPT
has actually said
that I'll be 400 K better off
owning one Bitcoin today
and DCA
a thousand bucks a month.
So so to me
the leverage means nothing
because
unless you're super rich
and you can
buy a property
in cash, right,
then you have to fund it
and it's going to cost
you interest
and a 5.5%
interest and a kegger of,
you know, 7% growth.
While the typical
Australian house
that it doesn't
really make sense,
you're not even really
beating inflation, right.
You're just keeping up.
Not to mention
that you've got to put up
with the vacancy period.
You've got to put up with
the heat is broken
or the children have,
shut the door,
the back door
really, really hard
and it's locked.
And you have to get a lock
me down, right?
Or a fence is broken
or a tile has, you know,
a roof tile has come loose
and there's rain
getting in the ceiling
and your whole range,
your ceiling is
completely broken.
These are not.
I'm not making this up.
I've got a friend
who has experience
exactly that.
One of these investment
properties,
the whole ceiling caved in
because it
right down
in the set of cuts.
Right.
So then you think,
oh no, that's
not going to happen to me.
But you'd be wrong.
Like it actually does happen.
People look
especially Aussies are sold
on the whole bricks
and mortar thing.
But this bitter effort
is absolutely
bitter out there.
And, you know,
I don't I don't
I don't make bold
predictions,
you know,
overzealous predictions
or anything like that.
I'm probably the most
conservative person
in Bitcoin community space.
I do genuinely believe
that we will see one average
Australian house to be worth
less than one Bitcoin
that will happen
in our lifetime.
So like one day
you'll be able to buy streets
with one bitcoin.
So yeah, I mean
I like to
it's in summation,
I guess I like to show people
this is the gateway.
If you want to outperform
then there is something
that risk adjusted
I believe will outperform
the S&P.
I believe with Bitcoin
over the next ten years,
you could
you could
compare it with the cookie.
The Nasdaq.
You can compare
it to spy.
Compared to Australian
real estate.
You can compare it to
the ASX.
Any basket
it will outperform.
Obviously
there's going to be like
outliers for example,
semiconductor,
semiconductor, broad based
funds
have outperformed Bitcoin
over the
last couple of years.
But that's sort of like
picking and choosing.
And you have to
do your research
and you have
to believe in it.
Whereas Bitcoin is kind of
like you said forget.
And you go out, you know,
and video off
most people
mom and dad investors,
they've got kids.
They've got yeah obligation.
They got to go to work.
They can't be
looking at a stock.
Well that can't
be looking at the
whether a stock
is overbought overpriced
I can't keep up
with the news.
You know
if you want to risk
adjusted outperform
and not have to
worry about it.
To me personally, I believe
Bitcoin is the best way
to go.
And I stand by that.
Yeah, 100%.
Prior to Bitcoin
I was a huge fan of S&P 500
because I like,
investments that I understand
and that feel safe.
So for me,
it was very much like Warren
Buffett was
my favorite investor.
And I think
like 90%
broad index fund, 10%
something like fixed interest
and not
overcomplicating things,
not buying individual stocks.
So I went for Ivy, not spy.
I compared the two,
if I remember correctly,
and I chose Ivy,
and that has done
well for me.
Like I did get good returns,
but what I didn't know
at the time is that the S&P
500 is just a proxy
for inflation,
like you are just
keeping up with inflation,
you know,
not outperforming it.
So essentially
all the money that I earned
I just kept
you know and and
yeah that was a big,
big Eye-Opening moment
for me
when I got into Bitcoin.
And I think I'm doing
well with the volatility.
The biggest drawback
I've had since I entered
was 30%.
And I do remember
getting a little bit nervous
and reaching out to,
you know,
the Sydney community
at the time.
And they were like, oh,
you're
you're worried about 30%.
Oh like cute
like welcome to Bitcoin.
So be interesting
too.
It's it's funny
when you mentioned Warren
Buffett. Right.
So I believe
but you have to critically
think is
a skill in itself.
It's it's
not it's
you're not born with it.
It's I think
believe it's it's something
that is very much
learned over time.
And in accounting, part of,
you guys are unique
part of,
being,
you know,
there's been counter
there's someone
who adds value.
Part of my job
is to be
professionally skeptical.
Right.
So not just take
I used to be an auditor.
So it's not just to take
the client's
word for something
at the time, right?
So listen to what they say.
But then do
your own research.
Right.
So when you go
back to one and I mean,
I go back to
in the body
building community,
there's so much
misinformation, right?
Just because
someone's huge
and, you know,
they look like they know
what they're doing,
it doesn't mean
anything, right?
Yeah. For sure.
When you you got to see
why they're actually,
like, what they do, why
they might think that the
what they're
doing is correct,
but it's actually
the other things
that is enabling them
to be successful.
Right?
It's like you
look at,
football teams,
coaches,
the good coaches
usually are not
great
football players.
Right?
Michael Jordan,
he would be a good coach.
He was a great player.
But whether it's a coach,
you don't know
James Hird not a great coach,
great player.
Mike Vos
great player.
Horrible coach.
Right.
It's the good coaches
that have won four
premierships or 1 or 2
that were average players.
Alister
Clarkson, average player.
Right.
So to me
it's like Warren Buffett,
he's a great vista.
But when he comes
out and calls Bitcoin
rat poison squared,
it's like, well,
why do you call it that?
Right.
There's there's a reason
usually because,
you know
you and I both know
he doesn't need Bitcoin.
He doesn't need you know
the Bitcoin community
says he's got you know
100 billion cash or something
because he sold out majority
of his Apple stake.
But it's like
whether he goes
from 100 billion
to 200 billion
he doesn't care.
You're right.
In the next
6 to 12 months for him.
It's not
he doesn't
want to buy bitcoin.
He doesn't need bitcoin
for him.
It's he he does what he does
well which is he
buys undervalued companies
as a value investor.
Right.
So I've learned
never to,
to to
to always question
seasoned
people that have done
well why even Dell
Markets goes
the same with property
investors. Right.
You could talk to those
old Italians, that old Greeks
that own 20 investment
properties.
Right.
This strategy today
to buy those 20 investment
properties, back then
do not hold today.
Right.
So they will sell you
what they did.
But you can't do that, right?
Because the landscape
has changed.
Funding has changed
since the GFC.
Right.
You could be able to,
you know, back in the day
you could buy a
property for 200 grand.
It goes up to 400 grand.
You use that
200 K difference.
You can't buy another one.
You can keep doing that
endlessly
even though you don't
have the income
to service it.
Right.
Or today the banks cap
you at one of two properties,
and that's literally all
you can borrow, right?
So yeah,
it's it's
I've and that's why
Bitcoin has resonated with me
so much.
It's why do people hate it.
Right.
What why people say
volatility is scary.
But why is scary.
Is it because you can't ride
the world coaster?
Is it because you're
too attached to short
term guidance?
You know, you going
to work out
what your why is my
why is 20 years out?
Why do I care if it drops
50% today?
You can't.
And I always ask.
I always tell friends
who are very new to it.
I always tell them, oh,
I mean,
they came to me this morning.
It's 108 K, we're going
below 100.
I'm like, well,
so you know,
you're down
on your investment
that you bought a month ago.
Oh, are you in it
for the next six months.
Well are you yes
or no ten years.
One you can
but I know it's going to
be $1 billion in my opinion.
Right.
So if I get 187
50, 120, 200 K
is a, it's a it's
a bit of a misnomer.
Like I said,
you need,
I think, to outperform.
You need to
swallow the short term.
The short term fluctuations
and work out what you're
why these
I think you're
why it's very important.
It all should be like
your mission
statement on the wall
every time, you know,
you go through
a 30% drawdown,
you look back on why,
and you kind of don't
really listen to the noise.
I found that
to be extremely effective
today, right.
So but that's.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I believe 100%
what you're saying,
even in, in, like,
you know, friends that invest
in, like, the S&P 500,
they don't even look
at that investment
as long term.
It's more like five years
an amount.
So I think people
these days are incredibly,
incredibly shortsighted.
They're always
looking to cash out
rather than continue
building their portfolio.
Yeah.
Because I think
even like with compound
interest,
the magic starts happening
after year seven and onwards.
Like the longer you're in,
the better you do.
Yeah.
But going back to your.
Why, Andrew,
I really want to know
because obviously
you mentioned
you got in in 2014
and that was on the advice
of you, a friend.
So at what point
did you feel like you
truly understood Bitcoin.
They went,
okay like I know
now what I'm holding.
Holy shit.
Why?
I think so.
I've always been
sort of skeptical
of the government.
Before
it was sort of
mainstream today
on social media
I could see it,
you know
pre I think for me around
that 2016, era.
Yeah, I've always
because I was so
when I was into property
obviously around
that 2010 ish looking to buy
my first property,
and Bill
shorten came out
and he's like, oh,
we got to get rid
of negative gearing.
And I, you know,
I was always like,
why are you trying
to get rid of something
like it's it almost
feels like you're trying to,
pull the ladder
from underneath to right.
You, you know,
look, you need to
utilize negative
gearing to your benefit,
and you got
your capital gains tax
discounts to your benefit.
Now, you telling me that
I can't use it, right?
So it was kind of like
one rule for you
and one rule for me.
It's it never really set
well with me.
Right.
And and then like
it's sort of stuck with me.
And then in 2016,
2017, 2018,
I kind of stuck
with that thesis.
And until Covid came, it's
sort of invert
my belief.
And that was when,
you know,
obviously
Bitcoin had gone from 500,
that $500
to a couple
of thousand dollars.
So I saw it as like, wow,
this is actually
yes, it's torn down.
Yes.
It's done
nothing for a while, but
it's really up before
my superannuation.
It's outperformed
any penny
stock at at Forbes property.
Everything right.
So even though
I still continue
to buy through at time,
it's not like I was stacking
like thousands of dollars
because you got to remember
it was a completely different
time.
There were no books,
there were no seminars.
There was it was very niche
and fringe.
I mean, you think it's fringe
now, but back
then it wasn't,
you know,
we'd gone through Blocksize
wars.
The block height
when I first bought
was like 300,000.
It was very uncertain.
Was this thing
going to stay around?
People look at it,
you know,
people saw that,
like you talked
to 90% of people
who buy from that time,
they sell out if they,
you know, forex
or something like that,
they'll look at it
and I'll be like, oh,
I don't know
where it's going.
I've four times
my money, I'm out.
So for me,
I didn't really
need the money.
Right.
I continue to work,
I continue to buy.
So it was never something
I had to draw down on.
So that's why I again,
I think I got fortunate
because I think
it's something
really drastically
happened to Bitcoin.
Then
I probably would have sold
my positions.
Right?
So, I mean,
it wasn't up until 2020
when all of my thesis
was confirmed
in my opinion.
You know, Covid wasn't
a psyop
or anything like that, but
I think they used it
to take advantage
and to control people
unnecessarily.
So,
I mean, yeah, they had to do
what they had to do, right?
And, yeah, for me,
separating my
money from,
you know,
what people control
is was very important.
And I really
I started to really
double down on my position
during Covid
and I think, like
when you talk to people on X,
it's not,
most people joined
around that time.
So again, it confirms
my thesis that,
that around that time was
when it was sort
of obvious that,
hang on,
the printing money
like it's nobody's business
and the S&P just going up.
But it's kind of like
it's not going to change
a lot. Right.
It's not
it's it's
not freedom technology.
It's not freedom money.
You're at the whim
of politicians.
You're
at the whim
of big corporates.
Right.
And yeah, it was
I started to read the books
around that time
and it just
and I mean,
I would have
thought my super hour earlier
if I had the books,
but if Covid was soon on.
Right.
So unfortunately
I didn't do that so recently.
Right.
Yeah.
So whilst I'm
not 100% in Bitcoin,
I would say
I'm probably
I'll probably be around
that 70 to 80%.
Once I
look to sell my property,
my investment,
then I'll be a lot higher
as a percentage I guess.
So, yeah.
It's,
Yeah, I didn't really go
down that rabbit
hole of being fully
supported in
or until around that 2020.
So, I think that was
an important step.
But again,
it suited my thesis
since 2010
that, you know, not
to be
trustful of the government.
Take what they say
with a grain of salt,
be professionally skeptical.
So, yeah,
it's a really until recently,
I think a half a decade
is quite recent for me.
Yeah.
I want to pick up on
you saying 80%.
So is someone who's not a bit
corner is listening to this.
They might be having like
a what
is this man
like?
How risky is this?
So
do we want to talk
about the risk?
Because I hear this and
I don't
have a reaction at all.
I think, you know,
like of course
like it's to me
Bitcoin is money.
It's my money of choice.
I, I feel that it is.
And I think that it is,
a like
pristine form of collateral
and the best money
you can hold.
And this isn't an opinion
that's just been based on,
you know,
nothing or whims or.
Yeah, like
I think there's definitely,
a lot of study
that has gone behind it.
And I'm very, very confident
with my,
holdings.
What?
I'm not going to say
what percentage
they are, but,
what how would you
what would you say to
someone who's who's.
Yeah.
Coming in and hearing 80%
allocation to Bitcoin
of your entire net worth?
I think
so, yeah.
A lot of the people,
especially newbies,
they,
they see that on Instagram
and they look at coaches.
Right.
And to me it's like
that's not research.
Right?
You need to like the books
I wouldn't recommend.
So I don't recommend people,
you know,
look at Michael Sila.
Look at Natalie Brunel.
All those popular
Jack malas.
I tell people to
look at the people
that have done the research.
So, I mean, you can take
what people say
with a grain of salt, but,
I mean, there's
a handful of people
who I respect
in the industry, and
a few of them are Americans.
So I look at,
I follow a guy named Fred
Krueger who
he who has a,
PhD in mathematics
from Stanford University.
He talks about
how Bitcoin is on a parallel.
And I look at,
I really respect plant,
see and seen,
from 21st capital.
These guys,
incredible
bitcoin analysts
and they develop the plants,
they develop the
Bitcoin quantum method.
It's based
on, you know,
130,000
plus data points,
which every single data
point in Bitcoin's history.
And they have modeled it out
as a probability.
Right.
Where it's going to be ten,
20 years time.
So I think, I think the based
on the length of history
that we have now,
which is 16 years
in mathematics,
you can't really model out
further than ten years,
because anything
after that, it's just figure
in the air kind of thing.
So ten years
is kind of the optimal point
five, ten years.
And he has done that.
And it breaks up
the price,
range
into sort of probabilities.
Right.
And if it gets, you know,
to a point of,
a price point
where, he believes,
according to that time,
the Bitcoin's been alive,
how much time has bitcoin
been in that range
for its life
so obviously today.
But what did he say
$200,000.
Bitcoin has been
in that overheated area
for only 5% of its life.
And the inverse
can be true to
at the lower portion.
So it's based
on probabilities
and it's based on ranges.
So I respect people like that
that have done the research.
I can't tell you
how much research I have done
the thousands of hours
over my time.
And when people come to me
and they say, oh, you know,
these coaches
said it's going to drop.
And, you know,
it's it's a psyop.
It's it's by the CIA.
They just don't understand
Bitcoin.
They, they clicking on,
you know, clickbait titles
and they're not thinking
for themselves.
Right.
So and I compare you know
I compare the fiat system to
I think
Fiat's the biggest
Ponzi around.
Right.
So it's like which,
which Ponzi
do you want to be.
Do you want to be
in a fiat system
or do
you want to be in
the Bitcoin system,
which to me
looks like you want
to be part
of the Bitcoin system.
You just don't know
that, right?
You can't you don't have that
sort of that,
that way of thinking,
that skepticism,
skepticism
or that self-reflection.
So hey, Bitcoin
is actually suited
to my investing thesis
and my political thesis.
Right?
Yeah.
I think it's
also being a bit,
you know, self-aware
and realizing that.
And some people I don't know,
they just need to sort of
because traditional trad
fi is, is, is
is ingrained in us
everywhere.
It's what people
and you get that bias.
That is the first thing
people tell you to
to invest in.
So it's very hard
to break those trap
that that chain.
So I encourage
people to read the books.
I've got the books
and I give them to people.
And yeah, it's funny
because people who
read a few pages
and they come to me and they,
they take a snippet
at what sort of what they,
what came out to the most,
what spoke to the most.
And they'll, they'll say, oh,
this is what you believe.
I'm like, yeah, well,
think about it.
You know, don't
just listen to me.
Don't
just listen to the book.
Think about that sentence
and how it sort of it
resonates with you.
Does it doesn't resonate
with you at all.
Clearly it did,
because you're
highlighting it to me.
Right.
So, it's
it's people's behavior.
It's very interesting.
Yeah.
I've learned a lot
about people
and myself during
my Bitcoin journey.
So yeah.
Yeah, I
absolutely believe
that Bitcoin would align
with most people's
core values
if they took the time
to understand it.
I can't imagine that,
you know, the average person
I like out of 100 people,
I would probably say 97.
If they really understood
Bitcoin,
they would still be like,
yeah, this is a much,
much better system.
But what is it
going to ask you? Yes.
About the Paolo
and the quantile.
What is it called.
Quantile method or
quantile model.
Model. Yeah.
I don't follow models
because I
ultimately don't care.
If, if it's going to be
a more conservative
or a more bullish outcome.
Definitely not
for the long term.
I do have more
conservative estimates,
but the quanto
sorry, the Paolo myth.
Sorry.
The Paolo model.
Isn't that one quite
bullish from memory?
I think there's a few.
I think there's like
stock to flow.
And which is
extremely bullish.
And whereas
that has been debunked.
Yeah.
Like it's not really
well respected anymore.
Yeah.
Correct. Exactly.
Whereas the Palo
Alto things
like for example,
a network,
you can look at Facebook,
you can look at the internet,
and Bitcoin is one of them.
They all operate on a pelo.
Right.
And the palo
if developed say,
ten years ago,
is able to predict
the Bitcoin price
over the last,
you know, five, ten years.
Right.
It was able to do that using
the first
five years of its data.
It was able to then model
that the next ten years,
right to quite
very close precision.
It's
when you look at the
power law,
it's not to me
though, it's the way
when if you listen to Clancy
and when he,
when he does interviews
I listen to,
he's like, he's phenomenal.
If you want to
listen to someone
who is very well grounded
and he's not going to
post you or,
you know, be overzealous
with price prediction,
he's fantastic,
right?
So the way he describes
it is.
Enables
people to,
sort of double
down on their position.
Right.
You look at it
and say Bitcoin
hits 200 K today.
The the quantile method
will look at it and say,
well we're
we're overheated
at the moment.
It's probably the best.
It's not the
best time to buy.
Don't sell your position
right, because it's obviously
going to be
a lot higher in the future,
but it's
probably not the best time
to continue to do it yet.
Right.
And then it will tell you
on the inverse, where
there is value,
there is opportunity.
Now is probably the good time
to really stack
and for
most of Bitcoin's life,
like where we are today,
we're kind of
in that sort of transition
middle zone.
It's the yellow zone
where it just opens.
It's kind of take it's
it's in the take up zone.
It could go up or go down,
but at the moment
I think it will go to
the upside in the next
3 to 6 months.
So to me it's
not a, it's
not okay.
I know
we're going to be higher.
It's not
are we going to be
$10 billion in,
you know, five years time?
It's not it's not telling.
I don't really care
about the price.
I know
it's going to be higher.
Right.
I just want to see where
I'm going to get my value.
And it's sort of
when we drop, say, 50%.
Then I think again,
it sort of
I don't have to talk
to people and sort of confirm
my own bias.
I can just look at the data
and I can say, hey,
we've been in this position
before, right?
And it was,
it was
it was a perfect time
to continue to stack
more Bitcoin.
So we're
going through it again now
then I know that
in five years time
we're going to be high up.
The price doesn't matter.
You know it could be 300.
It could be 500.
It could be 250.
Whatever
I know it's
going to be higher.
So it's perfect time to
continue to stack.
So that's the way
I look at it.
I mean it does say
if I, you know, 2034
that will range between,
you know, 801.2
million
around that sort of 20, 34,
2032 area.
And that's US
dollars.
So it's me, like,
you can call Michael, say
like, you know,
like grifter or, a seller
or whatever
you want to call him.
And he,
he's right
when he says, you know,
we're getting a
90% discount today,
which I believe is true
because I know
it's going higher.
The level of adoption
will continue
as more people
say it right?
So so, so,
so I just use the power law
and the quantile method
to, to basically
just confirm
when it's
when I'm getting more value
for my, for my dollar.
Right.
And that's the best.
I mean, so
I mean this is no worse
time,
no bad time to buy Bitcoin.
But if you want more
bitcoin for your dollar
then it will give you the
best time in my opinion.
Right.
That's interesting.
So is it fair
to assume that you don't do
DCA or do you,
do you wait for Bitcoin
to go on sale
or do you have
like a strategy where you,
you know,
a certain percentage,
a certain percentage
you leave aside for those,
you know,
quick tips?
So right now
I'm kind of,
I'm out of fear, right?
Because I believe
getting in at 100 K or 90 K
120 K,
we're so far
from where this is going
that I'm happy to,
you know, to
just buy
whenever I get money.
Right.
It's only, I think for me
personally,
I'll probably stop
once we hit around
that 150 over the next.
So time and price
is very important.
What you see
in three months
time is very different
to 152 year time.
Right?
So if we get 150 the
next 3 to 6 months,
I'll stop.
I'll stop.
If it's
when everyone else is going
in, that's when you stops.
Correct?
That's 100%.
You know,
when we had multiple silos,
100 K party
at start of the year,
I was like,
this is getting a be,
you know,
a bit hey, you doing
bit too overzealous here
I think.
So I pull back my visit,
my boy, I'm still buying.
I still bought early.
Yeah, right.
And lo and behold,
you know, we hit mid 70s.
I think we hit 73.
Came around
I think it was around
March each time.
So yeah,
I like I,
I used to five by
but I don't anymore.
And I always tell people
even when we hit 120
I had a friend
come out to me say, oh,
I'm missing out.
I said, hey, relax.
I said, we'll consolidate.
We'll come back down.
And here we are.
Because the fair value
currently predicts
Bitcoin at a
the power
that has Bitcoin
at a fair
value of 100 K today.
So yes, we did 120
which was
which is great.
But I mean we're still over
fair value at 107 K today.
So people
looking at the guy way down.
Well we're not really
well over fair value.
And this thing could be,
you know, a 100 K
or it could go down to 98 K
in September
and we'd still be around
that fair value.
I mean we could just go.
We would teleport from 90.
I don't have to 30
K in a matter of a week.
Right.
We both know these.
We've been in Bitcoin
long enough to,
to to understand that it
you know bitcoin folds
it's best
it makes 90% of its move in
like 10% of the year.
Not even probably 11
days of the year.
Right.
So I'd rather
have my money team
than not have my money.
Right.
But I just know when I'm
getting more value
for my money.
So that's that's literally
all I use these models
for people, you know,
look at them as gospel.
I kind of don't really do
that.
And it's worked for me.
Yeah,
I've noticed
certain behavior in myself
and in others
when once you have
that moment
that Bitcoin clicks in
for you
and you want to buy some,
most people what they do
and I did
the same thing is like I,
I FOMO in I
you know, I remember
I bought
just before the halving
and thinking,
you know, it's
going to go crazy
after the halving.
And that didn't happen.
And if I had just
DCA and relaxed,
I would have
gotten much more Bitcoin
for my money.
Instead of trying to
like lump sum
buy my way in.
I don't
regret it, obviously.
Like, significantly
up, but
do you have advice for people
who are like, you know,
some people
got like 500,000
to to spending.
They want to buy now, like,
what's your advice
for those folks?
That's a good question.
Personally,
I had 500 K today.
Again, it
comes back to your why?
Are you even
to make a short term buck.
If you are Bitcoin
it's going to be several
other things
that are going to outperform
Bitcoin.
I mean you could buy
you could probably buy
Nvidia
or you can buy
you know for coin.
Or there's another one
called SP 69,000.
You could buy those coins
and they'll
probably outperform Bitcoin
over the next six months.
So go buy that.
To me
it comes down to my wife
and I made this long term
my 500 cat.
Like if I'm investing
500 K today
I know that
according
to the research
I've done personally, 20
in 2034 in that time
we're going to ten x, right?
To me it's you could see
over the next six months
or you could just love
between now and just kind of
like sit back and chill.
But if again
if someone's you know,
doesn't have their bitcoin
and we go from,
you know, 100
107 K
down to 50 K tomorrow,
you know,
are they going to freak out?
I often ask people that
before they do it.
Would you freak out if you
if you.
Yes, then
I wouldn't
advise you to buy.
Right.
I mean, I
at the beginning of the year,
I because
I don't like
to sell my properties
and this
again is not
advice to anyone,
but I,
I refinanced my properties
and I took,
I extracted equity
and it was, you know,
it was over six figures.
And at the time,
I just loved it.
It's Bitcoin straight away.
I think I did it in
two parts,
literally,
a day apart.
Right.
Because of the banks,
they would let me do it
all at once.
That's an authority,
right.
So to me,
it was again,
kind of that's my wife,
like,
and I remember at the time
I bought it for
I think it was around
that sale up
just before the sale of
100 K party.
So I bought it around
high 98.
So I think it was.
And then it dropped to 70 K.
So my six figure,
my six
figure investment
went down by 30%.
Right.
That I can
honestly I
what I can tell
you hand on heart,
I did not care
and you know,
want to know something I'm
a glutton
to put like my family.
I said,
you know, that's
six figure sum.
I put it I've lost 30%.
They're like freaking out.
And I couldn't care less.
Like I wore,
like, a badge of honor.
I actually wanted it to drop
even more.
I don't know why.
Because I'm
the type of person that
if everyone's investing
in something,
I don't want to
be part of it.
I want to be different.
Right?
Which is why
I got into Bitcoin
in the first place.
So I can't.
I'm kind of sad whenever,
you know, I meet someone
who I consider a normie
and they've dabbled
in bitcoin, they've got
oh yeah, I have Bitcoin.
I'm kind of like right.
Like it's
getting out there
in that mainstream now.
Right.
So I like it.
They bring
I like that
the volatility scares people
I love it. Right.
So for me
it just suits me.
It's like what
I cannot have enough
I sold my
my Rolex watch
and I bought more bitcoin.
I'm selling things
just to buy more
bitcoin at okay
I don't FOMO
because I know
that if I 520 k I'm
not going to get
as much bitcoin for my dollar
and my goal
is more bitcoin right?
So why would I five buy
when I can just
relax and chill?
I know the price
is going to come down
and I'll be able to get
more bitcoins.
I'm like,
oh I'm greedy,
I love bitcoin,
I want more bitcoin,
I just want more Bitcoin
and everyone else
in the world.
Right?
So
so so
yeah it's yeah it's
that's why I love it.
I just
everything about bitcoin
from the volatility
to the thesis
to the white paper
to the end of anonymity
to how quick it is
to the revolution.
It just
it just suits me personally.
I'm kind of sad that I
have property as well.
But we'll
we'll solve that issue
in the future.
But you mentioned
your family.
I'm very interested to know
what your inner circle of,
like, family and friends.
What are their opinions
on Bitcoin now?
Have you managed
to successfully orange
peel?
Good question,
good question.
My immediate family,
my mom sort of goes
with what I go with.
So she likes Bitcoin.
Yeah.
So she obviously she doesn't
have any bitcoin.
I'm trying
to get my little niece,
into bitcoin.
And you know, her coming in
looking at my monies and,
and building the Lego
blocks together,
getting
stickers, putting it on a
you know, on a bench top
next to her bed.
It it's kind of like,
you know,
I always say,
because of Bitcoin
and whenever I wear it
or if I've got my socks,
she'll see it and
she'll come up
and you touch it
and she got to
be for Bitcoin kind of thing.
So I'm trying
to orange peel her.
Whereas I think
my brother
I don't want to talk to him
or anything like that, but
he doesn't like it
because
let's just say the
so the whole,
what is it,
the Silk Road,
and the whole
criminals thing.
I think there was a criminal
in Australia who,
stole a lot of Bitcoin.
Can't remember
how much it was.
I think it was
like 50 Bitcoin at the time.
He is so associates
bitcoin with the dark web
and prints.
Right.
And he's net so
and I think he associates
he looks at that any.
And he also
then associates it with
you know deejays
crypto brokers crypto
traders and stuff like that.
Right.
So he looks at it like
that and he has a
he hasn't done the research.
You know, he's not a read
and read books
or anything like that.
So he's been sold.
And you literally cannot
change his mind.
And you know,
it's funny
because of the price
going from, you know,
50 K, 120 K,
it doesn't
it means nothing to him.
It's like,
oh yeah, this
thing will go to zero, right?
Because he hates
all of the Silk Road.
And he saw the whole
crypto thing.
I think it was like 20
1617.
Right when Bitcoin
was significantly cheaper.
So the him
if if he's not
going to be impressed
from a going from a $20 to,
you know, 180,000 AUD
I think they're
going to be impressed.
I don't think he's
ever going to get on board.
Even if he gets 1
million AUD,
he'll think
it's just going to go down.
Everyone that's, you know, in
$1 billion,
it's going to go
down to zero. So
yeah, it's
my older brother.
He, he's probably
too smart for his own good.
I think when people too
intelligent,
they sort of
convince themselves
that the,
the it's not good, right?
It's funny.
It's like.
Yeah,
I've often seen the most
intelligent people,
not do the research.
It's like they've
they're so sure in themselves
that.
No, what I know is correct.
I'm not willing to have
an open mind and research.
Oh, am I wrong?
And I guess you can sort of
say the same thing for Warren
Buffett, right?
So, yeah,
I haven't been able
to convince
my direct family, my
my uncle, on the other
hand, he's
I've mentioned this
before,
he owns
a small little practice.
Right.
I think
at the time he had,
an IT system
and it was hacked.
I think this was the 2017.
I don't know
the details of it, but,
basically the hacker
gave him a ransom
and said, oh,
oh, unlock your system.
If you meet me in a car park
at a McDonald's
and you give me Bitcoin,
right?
I don't know how.
So he ended up.
Sorry,
but I think he spoke to
someone at the time
and he bought bitcoin.
I don't know
if he had it on a USB or
something at the time.
And he met up
with this person
and he gave them the bitcoin
and they unlocked the system.
The hacker
unlocked the system.
Now I don't know why
he didn't go to the
police or whatever.
I don't know the details.
Right.
But I think he's still got
some bitcoin left over.
Now my uncle
you got to understand like
why he's
I think he's a like Booba.
So I think he's
just turned 60
and he's heavily into
you know
commercial real estate
using the residential
real estate he's into.
Now.
Just get a savings account,
put your money in your offset
account, that sort of thing.
Right.
But he's bitcoin.
He still got it right.
And he's lucky
because he's extremely
well off
that he probably said
you know what
I'm just going to keep it
I don't need the money.
I'm going to see
what it does.
And it's
obviously outperformed
everything that he owns.
He's probably got say
he had one Bitcoin right.
He's probably
seen it go from 2,000
AUD to 180,000.
And he's like
what the hell is this
kind of thing right.
So he doesn't knock it.
But he
hasn't gone down
the rabbit hole
because I believe it
still sits on an exchange
because I have mentioned
whenever I see him
at Christmas time,
I have mentioned that,
you know,
you need to buy a wallet,
take it off the exchange.
Exchange goes down,
you lose your Bitcoin
and all that sort of thing.
Right?
So he's got a nasty
look at it
and it sort of
peaks in interest.
But then him he's
obviously
he doesn't need to pour
it all because
he's extremely well-off.
Right.
So it's funny.
It's family up.
Yeah.
It's family.
I'm very
I'm very reluctant
to sort of
push it too much, but
yeah, it's
but normies and people
that I've made up the street,
I'm okay with doing it
because I kind of
don't really care
what they think of me,
you know what I mean?
So, yeah,
it's my in
my family, it's
not really something.
It's like, oh,
Eddie's in it.
That's okay.
How is it doing today?
But that's it.
That's the level of it is,
you know, that
they don't
know about out stuff.
The old question
what is Bitcoin
I can't touch.
It is very popular
against with my family.
So and I'm
very reluctant to, you know,
shove a book in their face
and all that kind of thing.
So, yeah,
it's a difficult
one with your family,
that's for sure.
Yeah. For sure.
My parents are similar.
And,
you know,
when I first
got into Bitcoin,
I got warned by
basically everyone.
They,
you know, said, like,
when you're new into it,
you go through
an overzealous phase
and you want to tell
everyone about it.
And I can say
I definitely went
through that phase.
I am mellowing out now,
and starting
to think more strategically.
Okay.
Like,
just let people know that
they can reach out to you
if and when they want to
and leave it at that.
But with my parents,
I found like the best life
hack is through this podcast
because they're
sick of hearing me
talk about it
every single day
against their will.
Like,
and and now that they,
they like fans of my podcast
every Saturday,
they tuning in,
they listen
to the new episode
and then seeing all these
different people
from different walks of life.
Talk about it
from their lens,
whether it's philosophical,
whether it's cypherpunk,
whether it's
traditional finance,
whether it's someone who's,
well known or someone
who's, you know, a pleb,
they really, like starting
to open their mind to it
and like getting curious
about it.
I wonder if
with your mum and dad,
you can,
just buy
some bitcoin
on on their behalf
and give them a watch
only wallet like
just putting that out there.
I could do that.
My dad,
you know he's a he's
a, he's a mid 70s
sort of Maltese guy
I think
for him would be
if he was younger
I think it'd be something
he would definitely be
interested in
my mom is just
my mom is just my mom.
She just does whatever,
you know, whatever I do,
if anybody does it,
it's a good idea
kind of thing, right?
Yeah.
To be honest,
I like
not every decision
I make is obviously correct.
Right.
But it's funny because,
you know,
even when I buy a property,
you know,
I always get the whole,
don't
buy there, right?
So, for example, in 2017,
I bought a block of land,
on the south
coast of Victoria.
So there's a suburb called
Armstrong Creek,
which is about five minutes
north of Torquay.
Everyone knows.
Okay.
And at the time
blocks of landed,
Torquay were gone
for like six, $700,000
or just were small 350 square
meter block.
And so I saw Armstrong Creek
and it's like it's
there was nothing there.
Right.
And that was only developing
the land at the time.
And one block of land,
you know, cost $169,000.
And I thought,
I thought,
okay, why not?
So I ended up buying a block.
And I remember at the time
I was working in Melbourne,
but we had an office,
Audi Geelong,
which wasn't very far,
and I'll have to go
sign some documents one day
after work.
So I worked in our
Geelong office
and people are like,
oh, why are you here?
And I said, oh, you know,
I'm just going to go find
some documents.
Because I'm yeah,
I bought a block of land at
Armstrong Creek
and they're like, oh,
because they're all
locals, right?
They're like, oh,
why did you buy an offshore
creek?
It's it's swamp land.
It's it's disgusting.
You're never
going to make any money.
And, you know,
you got some spotty those.
Yeah 100%.
Exactly.
It's exactly
there's nothing there.
So they
so people were like
they told me not to do it.
And if I listened to them,
I wouldn't have done it.
So,
I ended up building a house,
putting a house on there,
renting it out in 2019.
So just before Covid hit,
right at the time,
I was struggling
to find a tenant for like,
I think my rent was like
400 bucks a week.
But then Covid hit
and the property
I built, 400,000
had been revalued
to 800,000
because everyone
was moving out of Melbourne
to the coast.
My rent went from $400 a week
to $650 a week.
Overnight,
literally overnight.
And I was going to like
if I had not.
If I did listen to people,
I would have
stayed on all these gains.
And I did it
and I just,
I it's something
that I listen to myself.
Even in 2023
when I bought
a house in the north
of Melbourne, Melbourne,
oh, I think everywhere
in 2022, the whole
you know, even bitcoin
had suffered everything
in draw down.
I went to auctions
that to buy house
and no one was there.
Literally
it was like ghost town.
I went to an auction,
I bought two properties
that year and,
I was the only beat up.
It's like
the auctioneer would say,
throw out a price
and I'm starting price.
And I'm like,
oh, look around.
I'm like, yeah, I'll do it.
And and they're like, oh,
I'm gonna have to pay money
twice.
Yeah. Tell me.
So that's even on forums,
people would be like,
oh, why are you buying
at the airport?
You know,
there's just too many house
owners and murders.
I'm thinking, well, you know,
Fitzroy
and Carlton
and all that.
The crime rates out
there, phenomenal.
That's so high.
Right?
And there's a lot of public
housing like.
And the prices down
there are just, you know,
the top of this over
$1 million.
And you're telling me
that this is going to impact.
So I bought
and the property price
went from high five
because as I said
earlier, it's 730 overnight.
Literally overnight.
And so I kind of
just don't like to
listen to people.
I found that everything you
know, I've done
has worked out well.
The touchwood.
Right.
But kind of goes with me.
And I think she's like saying
what I've done
and I've stuck to my guns
and it's paid off.
It's like it's all paid off
pretty well.
And that's why
I don't listen to
Warren Buffet.
I don't listen to, you know,
crypto pros and
crypto traders
is the short term noise
because I know
where things are going.
I know the government's
going to continue to debase
our currency.
Like if you want to
buy a sheep coin and,
and live with that
for the rest of your life
and possibly lose money, then
yeah, all power to you.
But personally,
that's not me.
I'm just going to continue
to do what I do best
and what I know
and what I've researched
and what, economists
like cipher, Diem
versus, as I've said,
that, you know,
it's inevitable.
Money printing is inevitable.
So yeah,
that's just how I say it.
A lot of cipher dynamics.
And his book is
the one
that orange pulled me.
So I just feel forever
grateful to this man
because he changed my life.
And I think I
recently tweeted
that as well.
And he's like,
this made my day.
And I'm like,
you made my life.
Yeah.
No, he's he's great,
I like him.
I mean,
I've read other books
as well since that, which I,
you know, really love,
but that one will always hold
a special place in my heart
because it was the book
for me.
Heavy rent,
forget food and,
it's not,
it's not, you know,
I'm going to actually order
the whole set again
because I only have the hard
copy of the Bitcoin standard,
which I've highlighted.
But I want to
get the whole set
and then I want to get
some like spare Bitcoin
standard books
just to give out
like his gifts.
Yeah.
So I'm going to do that.
And I think there's 10%
if you buy with Bitcoin.
Yeah I can't
yeah I've got
I've got
principles of economics
and I've got fiat food.
And fiat food
is an interesting one because
it's kind of like
you can apply the whole,
you know,
debasement of currency,
currency and how that impacts
not only, you know,
investing,
but food, music,
even housing,
I mean, the household living
now is 1960, right.
And I've built
new houses before,
as I mentioned,
the wanting to.
Okay.
And, you know,
the qualities
completely different.
Like, I, I ripped off,
a lot of the
even if you just
look at the plaster.
Right.
The plaster of this house.
This is my house
is nothing special, right.
It's a tiny house
built in 1960.
So I bought this house
off the original owner,
who's in his mid 90s,
right.
And, in the kitchen,
the, the that
the there was
too many cracks.
I was removing the plaster
and the plaster
is such good quality.
There's all this
horsehair in it
and it's so thick,
right, that
you can't just
put a hammer in it and just,
try and rip it off.
You can't rip it
with your hands.
I literally have
to grab a saw
and saw it
all the way down
to the very bottom,
because it was just
so thick and coarse.
Now, the insulation
quality of it is insanely
good, right?
These days
the plaster is like paper.
It's like cardboard.
Why is
that right?
It's because
a dollar is worthless.
Things
are getting
more expensive, right?
And to have that similar
sort of quality of life that
we can't build
with the same material,
because this house
to build today
would cost you,
you know, $600,000, right?
It's like people
that say, why,
right?
So to me, even the wood,
I mean, we used,
we used, hardwood.
It's so hard to dilute to
because the
property of it, it's
so thick.
I mean,
it's too expensive
even to use, you know,
hardwood that is farmed.
We have to use pine.
Right? Pine.
It rots so quickly
that it's so soft.
You can literally
just tap it nicely to it.
It's just,
the quality of the material
today
compared to even in the 80s
and 90s
when it sort of started
to become subpar,
is vastly different.
I strongly believe
it's due to the basement.
I can't see
every
a lower standard of living,
including our food.
Our music is
due to that, right?
People that don't see these,
I believe they have
some sort of Stockholm
syndrome where they think
that the printing of money
is a good thing
for the it's
it could be so further
from the.
Yeah.
I 100% agree.
And once you see it,
you can't unsee it.
Every time
I go to the supermarket,
I just look at the food
and like,
look at the
whole supermarket.
I'm like
80 to 90% of
this is not even real food.
Like, that's that's how bad
things have gotten.
Overall,
I think our, collective
standards have dropped
so much
that if you're
the type of person
who wants to eat real
food, wants to
exercise, wants to
have real relationships,
have real respect
for your body in your mind,
you're almost seen
as like, weird.
And it is all
because our standards,
collective standards
have dropped so much,
so much.
And I really hope
that, yeah,
if anything else that
we change that,
sooner
rather than later
because this is just really,
really bad.
And, and if you,
if you look at it
from a holistic perspective,
it just becomes obvious
that this is
what's happening.
So I'm trying
my best
to do what I can
to help educate people.
And yeah.
Do you have any
final thoughts,
like how can people find you
if they want to connect
with you?
I want to be connected
with people.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I like thinking about
bitcoin and like,
anything that's,
not lost, like fear.
So you can connect
with me on X,
you find me on X
and the underscore selfie.
I used to be
a, I used to surf
just to throw it out there
when I was, like, 16.
It's why
I knew about tollgate.
And you can follow me
on Instagram.
Andy.
Boy,
boy spelled b o w I
sorry, but I,
I have a TikTok.
I genuinely believe that,
give me go on Instagram
and TikTok
because,
you're not preaching
to the converted.
So,
I think it's important to not
only go on to x.
X sometimes
feels like an echo chamber.
I've heard it all before.
I love it
because it's good community,
but I feel like
going elsewhere.
Venturing out,
is also important as well.
So yeah, for me,
they're happy to connect
with anybody.
Awesome.
And are you going to join
any Bitcoin meetups
in the future?
I can send you links
pressure, pressure.
I it's actually
really awesome.
People in Melbourne
like really, really good
Bitcoin is
and I know a lot of people
from there
because they go
to the bush bashes.
So you know,
I connected with them
in the bustle
in one in parks in Palm Cove.
There's a lot of really,
really great
Victorian bitcoiners.
And I think
you're missing out
if you're not connecting
yes or no,
I will definitely do that.
I kind of like, we'll
I'd love to go,
to any
sort of made up
and I'll be to property
meetups in the past.
On the property forums
and things like that.
But I do
preach about Bitcoin
probably a little bit
too much there,
and I, I absolutely
detest it.
So I'm kind of reluctant
to go there anymore.
But yeah, always,
always, like I told you,
if Bitcoin, it's 200
K by the end of the year,
I'm going to drive up north
and get to hang out
with the cool
bunch of people.
Yay!
You could also get the Tesla.
This is I told you so
at 200 K and show up
to the property, meet up
and just see how
many friends you make.
You know what?
I wear this and I just know
I can like no one.
It's it's actually
it's actually funny,
when we first did 100 K,
I wore this in the,
in the city of Melbourne
where it was so busy.
So I was walking down
Bourke Street.
No one can literally
nobody looked at me.
You know, I look
I had maybe 2 or 3 people
just look at me.
But that's see
when you talk, I'm talking
thousands of people
walking past me.
So I guess
that's how early we are.
I genuinely think
we're still early.
Yeah, 100%, 100%.
All right.
And thanks for your time.
No problems.
But thank you for having me.