Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Every day you have a choice. You can wake up and choose to give in to mediocrity and complacency, you can choose bad habits and poor choices, and you can do the bare minimum to get by and fly under the radar. Or you can choose to make today the day that sets you apart from the crowd, you can choose to start doing the right things, the things that will set you up for success. You can choose to create a life that is worth living, worth waking up to, and worth sharing with the world around you. Today You can choose to start with a win.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:08:21
Speaker 1
that there's three ways that we can fully acknowledge others, that we can fully acknowledge them when they 100% disagree, when they partially agree, when 100% agree.
00:00:08:23 - 00:00:14:13
Speaker 1
But we've conflate it full, full acknowledgment with full agreement. I'll give you a couple of ways to approach
00:00:14:13 - 00:00:21:14
Unknown
Welcome to start with a win where we unpack franchising, leadership and business growth. Let's go.
00:00:21:14 - 00:00:39:18
Speaker 2
Coming to you from area 15 ventures and start with the Win headquarters. It's Adam contest. We'll start with a win. Have you ever wondered how to respectfully disagree with someone? I think there's a lot of people out there in society today that need to understand this, and I know you would agree, because it seems like we're at this boiling point in so many different ways.
00:00:39:22 - 00:01:02:23
Speaker 2
Well, today we have on the show Justin Jones Fosu, a CEO of Work meaning for a firm focused on creating respectful disagreement and understanding. So that we can move forward with the principles that we know we all need to accomplish in order to make things better. So today on the show, I look forward to talking to Justin about how to respectfully disagree.
00:01:03:01 - 00:01:05:04
Speaker 2
Justin, welcome to start with a win.
00:01:05:07 - 00:01:09:03
Speaker 2
Thank you so so much. So so many kind words I'm grateful.
00:01:09:05 - 00:01:25:21
Speaker 1
Awesome. Hey, first of all, I want to dive into this. In April, you released a new book that I love. I love this concept. I want to get right into this because I think this is something that maybe we've missed a couple generations or we as leaders need to focus on more. Or maybe just society is blocked out.
00:01:25:21 - 00:01:40:13
Speaker 1
But your book is called I Respectfully Disagree. And it's it's a powerful framework for navigating challenging conversations with respect and empathy. Tell us a little bit why did you write the book and give us a flyover of this book?
00:01:40:15 - 00:02:01:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, so it started back really when I was a year lead. my mom used to take me to events that I disagreed with, that we didn't know a lot about. And, I started asking questions as I got older cause I didn't realize what she was doing. And as I got older, I realized her mom was planting some really powerful seeds.
00:02:01:03 - 00:02:22:11
Speaker 2
she was starting me at younger with the wind. And, I remember interviewing my mom from Alaska, who? Books. I was like, like mom, like, why did you do this? And my mom shared a really powerful story. She was one of the first, black female air traffic controllers in the Air Force. And there are some times which she'd be stationed in Japan that, she was there for two years.
00:02:22:11 - 00:02:42:15
Speaker 2
And there's some soldiers who had that same two year time frame. Never left base. And she was like, Justin, I don't want you to be like that, to never leave your home base, to experience the beauty of people and cultures around you. And so that really became the catalyst for how I started leaning into to experiencing people who are different than me, who thought differently because we would go to those events growing up.
00:02:42:17 - 00:03:07:18
Speaker 2
Now, fast forward, and I was doing a lot of work working with clients and consulting around creating cultures of belonging. And I always, I always make this statement that, I would make this statement that we can vehemently disagree with someone's ideology and yet still passionately pursue their humanity. And it was always this all bogus, oh, wow. Oh, you know, and if people come up afterwards, like, just I love that quote, I love it, but but how do we do it right?
00:03:07:18 - 00:03:30:19
Speaker 2
Or like they would try to stop me like, but what if they believe or say this. And so this book became the answer to how do we do it from several of our participants. And so, that's what we did to create a practical guide. and we dug into the research qualitative, quantitative, looked at things like conversational receptiveness, neuroscience and disagreement, how leaders can create these cultures.
00:03:30:21 - 00:03:44:23
Speaker 2
And we created something that we felt was very simple, practical, relatable, and it still spoke to the heart of the issue about how do we grow first in our heart, then in our head, and then translate that to action.
00:03:45:01 - 00:04:09:01
Speaker 1
Wow. And it seems like disagreeing just means you've learned. You've noticed, learned, or heard a perspective that is not yours. And I mean, it just seems like from a foundational aspect. But we've seen a lot of this, you know, this disagreement or hearing something that is not somebody's perspective turned into anger and frustration or some sort of emotional response.
00:04:09:01 - 00:04:13:05
Speaker 1
Now, talk to me a little bit about that. Why why does that happen?
00:04:13:07 - 00:04:34:00
Speaker 2
Well, some aspects of it happen because based upon our tightly held beliefs, our identity beliefs, there could be some things that are loosely coupled and tightly coupled. Right? So if you said, hey, you know, I think that you're a great New York Yankee fan for someone that's loosely coupled or I, they'd be like, oh yeah, whatever. I don't really care.
00:04:34:02 - 00:04:55:01
Speaker 2
Right? But I've had these conversations where I've met a Yankee fan who would never marry a Boston Red Sox fan. Right. There's a tightly coupled belief to that. And so the first piece of that is how how tightly we hold our identity and in our beliefs. The second aspect of that is we have started to confine ourselves to what we call our circles of comfort.
00:04:55:03 - 00:05:17:11
Speaker 2
And, Adam, to be truthful with you, I was doing this as well. I started noticing this, especially during 2020, and I wasn't living up to my mom's ideals of leaving my home base to experience the beauty of cultures around me, and I started doing some things. And so to give people a practical way to do that, one of the things we encourage people to do is the first pillar is challenge your perspective.
00:05:17:13 - 00:05:36:15
Speaker 2
And one way to practically do this, whether as an individual or as leader, is we call it the circle of Grace challenge, where every six months to 12 months I go to events, experiences, or I engage with people in either which I don't know a lot about and or that I disagree with. And now what's fascinating is that leaders can do the same thing for their whole team, for their organization.
00:05:36:15 - 00:05:57:11
Speaker 2
We just took the For Family Foundation through this, and at the end of the six months, the learnings were so phenomenal as people talked about and debriefed on what they were able to engage and learn. So that's one of the reasons, is because we're not often challenging ourselves. We're not leaving our home base. And so when we finally do it, it feels, very extreme.
00:05:57:13 - 00:06:01:01
Speaker 1
So this idea of a comfort zone is actually true.
00:06:01:03 - 00:06:05:20
Speaker 2
Oh, big time. Really, really big time.
00:06:05:22 - 00:06:11:21
Speaker 1
Awesome. So okay, so you mentioned pillars. How many pillars are there in this process.
00:06:11:23 - 00:06:34:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. So we've summarized it into five pillars. Let's be real. And it can be 100 pillars. but no one would read that book. So. Right. So we, we, we summed it up to what we call the five pillars of bridging the divide. And these five pillars are simply challenge or perspective. Pillar number one. Pillar number two is be the student.
00:06:34:16 - 00:06:44:03
Speaker 2
Pillar number three is cultivate your curiosity. Pillar number four is seek the great pillar number five is agree to respect.
00:06:44:05 - 00:07:09:11
Speaker 1
Wow I want to I want to unpack a few of these. Yeah. the I love obviously pillar number five agree to respect. Yeah. I mean and and I think after running through these that that's a great bookend to it. But I want to jump into you know, something I always talk about which is learners lead leaders learn.
00:07:09:11 - 00:07:20:08
Speaker 1
And that's your pillar. Number two, be the student. Yeah. Tell me about that. Why why does that make it better for us to understand others and respectfully disagree?
00:07:20:10 - 00:07:46:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. So be the student is so powerful. One of the things that mom taught me, and you can tell I learned a lot from my mom, and she's like, we can learn something from everyone, right? Even as leaders, we've learned from other leaders what not to do. And, be the student is where we focus in on, listening and learning, rather than lecturing, when you approach people and perspectives and time as a teacher, I have to share with you my perspective.
00:07:46:07 - 00:08:04:16
Speaker 2
I have to teach you what I know. what it does. It doesn't allow us to operate in a frame where we hear people of an ways so that we can learn and listen and engage. And so there are times when I'm talking to somebody, and I know I definitely disagree with what they're saying, and there's some conversations I don't need to respond.
00:08:04:16 - 00:08:30:00
Speaker 2
I don't need to tell them I disagree, I just listen, I learn, I put myself in a posture of, hey, Justin and I taught myself. I literally said to myself, whether verbally or in my head, Justin, don't say anything about what you believe. Just listen today. And it gives me a great opportunity to be the student and engage and hear and listen deeply, which kind of dives into cultivated curiosity.
00:08:30:02 - 00:08:50:01
Speaker 2
But when I take that posture, when people take that posture of what can I learn from this person? what's something I haven't experienced before? It allows us to grow. Now, let me give you the research. Behind that is there's a theory called the inverted U theory. And it says there's two places where we don't learn effectively. Number one, when we think we know absolutely nothing.
00:08:50:02 - 00:09:04:14
Speaker 2
And number two, when we think we know absolutely everything. And so when we tell ourselves and conditioned our brains to say that there's something I can learn from this person, this situation, this ideology, it allows us to open up, to be able to receive and hear them as a student.
00:09:04:16 - 00:09:11:05
Speaker 1
Interesting. I mean, it seems fascinating because it seems like you can learn the most from people you you disagree with the most.
00:09:11:05 - 00:09:37:05
Speaker 2
Maybe I'll go with that. And it doesn't mean you'll agree. It just simply means that you're learning, you're understanding a different perspective. But what we've been conditioned on, and this is a challenging part, Adam, is that our society is conditioned people to be fixed mindset people. Now, I love Carol Dweck s work on mindset growth versus fixed and and and the fixed base mindset says, I only want to do things that I'm good at or compared to other people.
00:09:37:07 - 00:09:59:13
Speaker 2
I look at failure as final, but the growth mindset says that failure is just another data point for learning, and my only competition is myself. And that's what we've lost in our society. We've taught people be fixed mindset. You know how, we tell you how because like, say, a Rubik's Cube as an example, when's the last time you saw somebody come on, like the nightly shows and was like, we want to welcome Adam to the show.
00:09:59:13 - 00:10:27:10
Speaker 2
And it's like it took Adam five years to solve the Rubik's Cube. But the crowd was like, we don't do that. Why? Because we don't want to know the person who took five years. We know the person that did it behind their back, that did it with the two front teeth. They did it in Lake Michigan, right? Well, scuba diving, like all these things, but the people that are consistent, that are resilient, that have a deeper sense of grit, that continue to learn and grow, that's growth mindset.
00:10:27:12 - 00:10:46:11
Speaker 2
And unfortunately, our society, we've operated by fixed mindset, a small side. Did you know that the world record as of my research for solving that was 4.22 seconds for the Rubik's Cube, and somebody in one of my recent sessions, they said, just in this now like 3.8 something. So, it took me longer to say that. And that's what we prioritize.
00:10:46:11 - 00:11:06:05
Speaker 2
So with leaders, guess what we can do? That person that took a little longer, the person that you saw grow, the person that it may have taken a little bit longer than expected to lean in and learn something new, but they were persistent. They continued celebrate them to not just the person who did it the fastest.
00:11:06:07 - 00:11:25:17
Speaker 1
Wow. I think that's fascinating. When we start to unpack that awareness, I mean, ultimately we're we're talking about a deep dive into emotional intelligence here. Yeah. and and truly understanding other people where they come from, what they've, you know, the talents that they have, or maybe the gaps that they have that they're trying to fill with talents.
00:11:25:19 - 00:11:53:07
Speaker 1
So this is incredible. I, I love the, the aspect of asking questions or listening. You you've already dove into that. But but this next pillar you know about, you're cultivating curiosity more than anything. What does that do to the person that is delivering the message when you start asking them about that message? you know, because some people deliver a message that they're just they're passionate about, but they might not know about.
00:11:53:07 - 00:11:59:13
Speaker 1
So, I mean, are we uncovering vulnerable vulnerabilities or are we helping them grow with that? what do you what do you think about that?
00:11:59:15 - 00:12:17:06
Speaker 2
Yes, I think it's all of the above. I think that depending on the person that allows them to dive in deeper to their message, you might help them to explore aspects of their message that haven't been explored before. As leaders, when we do this in our team. So I. I'm right now I'm reading, the autobiography of, Nelson Mandela.
00:12:17:07 - 00:12:36:01
Speaker 2
And one of the things that he said he learned from the Chiefs growing up is that the chief wouldn't say anything. The chief would really sit there and listen and allow everyone to share the perspective and view and then share. And for some reason, our society, we feel like we have to share first, rather than really deeply listening.
00:12:36:01 - 00:13:03:00
Speaker 2
And so we give people some pretty powerful tools to to dive in deeper, so that they can help cultivate that curiosity with, curiosity rather than conclusions. So 1 or 1 of those ways is to challenge our double Dutch style communication. And so people who've never jumped rope, you don't know what Double Dutch is. So like a single rope is like one rope, like going around and a double Dutch are two ropes, like swoosh and somebody waiting to jump in like, let me go, let me go.
00:13:03:04 - 00:13:20:18
Speaker 2
And that's how we end up communicating with people waiting to jump in. Like take a breath, take a pause, think. And Adam, this is why I disagree with you, right? And then we jump in. But instead, what if we listen to what we call the power of three? And we created this model to help people to deeply listen rather than distracted listen.
00:13:20:23 - 00:13:36:17
Speaker 2
Listening. The power of three is simply this. You say, hey, Adam, how's your day today? And you're like, oh, my days. Fine. I mean, oh, my day is fine too. There's power of one. Power two. Hey, Adam, how's your day? For what? Make your day five. Oh, I was talking to this interesting bald head speaker. I remember that bald guy.
00:13:36:17 - 00:13:56:01
Speaker 2
Like this power of two. But the power of three is where we go through that whole thing. I remember, and I'm saying what made it interesting. But we often stop at the power of one or power of two, because we can't wait to get it back to ourselves. And it's not because we're most of us are narcissistic or self-absorbed.
00:13:56:03 - 00:14:14:13
Speaker 2
It's simply we hear this over and over again. It's a people are trying to find and form connections, but we have to be very careful then our desire to form connections. We don't take control. And so the next time we encourage people, not only in their team meetings, not only to engage with their colleagues at home in their communities.
00:14:14:15 - 00:14:36:07
Speaker 2
It's a challenge yourself, even with your kids, right? For those who have them, is to listen to the power of three and challenge yourself to like, all right, did I ask at least three questions? If you don't know what to say, use the power of phrase. Tell me more because it allows people to open up. Now, when we do this in our workshops and we ask a really powerful question like, what's been a meaningful moment in your life that shaped who you are today?
00:14:36:09 - 00:14:57:23
Speaker 2
I've had some CEOs of of international organizations say just now I've been working with this person for 35 years and I've never have heard this. And while that excites me and I'm thankful, it also saddens me because it makes me realize that a lot of us, we really are deeply listening to others.
00:14:58:01 - 00:15:28:13
Speaker 1
That there's some magic behind what Justin has just said. So I would encourage everybody to go back and listen to this again. The power of three and that power statement tell me more, because it seems like we go through and you're 100% correct. And I, I can make a laundry list of people who just are listening to talk instead of listening to hear, and they're waiting for that, you know, somebody to tap the brakes so they can jump into traffic real quick and start speaking.
00:15:28:15 - 00:15:39:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, but what if we as leaders and Justin's really onto something here? What if we as leaders weren't allowed to make a statement but only make questions?
00:15:39:07 - 00:15:43:11
Speaker 1
Think of where we would be. I mean, it'd be so much fun.
00:15:43:13 - 00:16:08:17
Speaker 2
Yes, that. But add it to your point, that innovation that when we ask those questions of our team, you imagine you're in your team meeting. Right? And this is one of the struggles as leaders. We talk about this from a dream perspective. I'm a dual citizen of Ghana. and the United States. And drumming is really powerful. And so when we're great individual contributors, we're like, Papa, papa, papa, papa, papa, we're just making these awesome drum solos who were killing it.
00:16:08:21 - 00:16:43:04
Speaker 2
And then we get into leadership and we still feel like we have to go back to the bop bop bop bop bop. But as leaders, we're really simply called at that point to simply keep rhythm, to allow other people as individual contributors to shine and give their awesome drum solos. And that's a great part of our listening part of us creating that space for people to give their great solos, rather than us continuing to do that, is by asking more meaningful questions and creating a solution that's more powerful than any one person.
00:16:43:06 - 00:17:01:19
Speaker 2
During my MBA, I had one of those amazing professors was like the late Robin Williams in Dead Poets Society, and one of the things is we had to read a book there, and I was like, why do we have to read this book? But it was one of the most profound books that I ever, I've ever read is a book called Dialog The Art of Thinking Together.
00:17:01:21 - 00:17:28:03
Speaker 2
And the challenge premises is not about a right and it's not about B, because normally person A is trying to convince B of A, and B is trying to convince a person A and B, but it's about how do we create C together now C doesn't C is often that 5050. But as leaders, when we can create those cultures within our teams, within our organizations, well then even our project teams, it allows us to create and to innovate in ways that we wouldn't have ever been able to do.
00:17:28:08 - 00:17:31:12
Speaker 2
And it's simply by starting with D plus D.
00:17:31:14 - 00:17:51:09
Speaker 1
I love that it. I mean, you're so correct on this and there's so much knowledge and wisdom in that. Ultimately, why are we having a meeting to begin with in a company? We're having a meeting to create positive outcomes for everybody in the organization or moving in a direction. But we're not going to do that by just getting together and barking orders.
00:17:51:09 - 00:18:17:23
Speaker 1
We're going to do that by getting together and exploring. Yeah. And it's oh, there's there's only one way to explore. And that's by asking great questions and just shutting up to hear what comes out. I mean, there's there's so much I I'll tell you. The, have you ever played the or seen businesses where the employees go in and they have a bingo card in meetings because somebody always comes up with the same statements or phrases or whatever.
00:18:17:23 - 00:18:41:07
Speaker 1
And it's it's a horrible thing to have happen. But I mean, when you have leaders who come in, I remember a leader who who would come in and say, it is what it is, you know, just things like that all the time. And others would come in and say, well, the problem with this is so these different things would permeate these bingo cards that people would, you know, kind of quietly fill out.
00:18:41:07 - 00:19:00:13
Speaker 1
And then at the end, the employees would get together and go, who got the most on their bingo card? There's a problem in the culture of that organization because it's just people speaking to be heard, instead of asking to find out. So it it's interesting. So I want to dig into the next pillar. Seek the gray. What does that mean.
00:19:00:15 - 00:19:20:17
Speaker 2
Yeah I before I get the seek to gray I want to share like just hearing you deeply. one of your next books need to be needs to be leadership by exploration because even that whole thing. I'm I'm a trekker, a hiker. I like exploring, taking on, you know, the non known path and that that really spoke to me as you talked about leadership and exploring.
00:19:20:17 - 00:19:25:07
Speaker 2
I was like, oh, that's good. Adam. Leadership by Exploration is your next book. Okay.
00:19:25:08 - 00:19:27:02
Speaker 1
But I'm writing that down.
00:19:27:04 - 00:19:51:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think the gray we know there's 50 shades of it. is that often times, we see things in very black and white terms. our brains want to simplify things. it wants to operate, what we call an autopilot, right? Because the brain science behind this is really fascinating. imagine you're driving and you're supposed to take an exit.
00:19:51:09 - 00:20:13:15
Speaker 2
but, you know, Monday through Friday, you take this exit, and one day is supposed to go straight. But what do you do? You take the exit. It's because your brains want to conserve energy for things it thinks it doesn't know. And so when it gets second or third hand information, it categorizes it for future use. And as we engage people, we want to put it into nice, you know, tied up buckets of, oh, this is what this person is this what this person is.
00:20:13:17 - 00:20:34:21
Speaker 2
and we end up taking the exit on people. That's what I did my head on. And instead, what if we thought the gray. What if we said every person that we engage is complex, is nuanced? that there's some aspect of them that's very different and unique. but let me explore them as I ask more questions.
00:20:34:21 - 00:20:54:11
Speaker 2
And so Seeking the Gray is about realizing that one, we're all nuanced. Two is that there's some aspect of common ground that exists. I love the body of work around conversational receptiveness. it talks about, two things that are really awesome. If one is identifying common ground. The second is hedging your claim. Now, the common ground aspect, let me give you a great example.
00:20:54:11 - 00:21:16:05
Speaker 2
Right. In the societal issue, gun rights versus gun control is guess what the common ground is, right? Because people think there's no common ground. Common ground is we both care about the safety of our families. Now, how we get there is vastly different. But if we start there first, like, wow, like, you know, Adam, I can tell that we both really care about our families and their safety.
00:21:16:07 - 00:21:36:12
Speaker 2
I've already created a bridge in our conversation that is much better than, hey, I think you're wrong. I think your idea is stupid. I think what you do creates, safety. And that's what we do. And so even in the book, when people don't know the cover of the book, it looks like a black and white diagonal. but it's a very thin line of gray in between the black and white.
00:21:36:14 - 00:21:54:11
Speaker 2
And you have to be intentional when I call it out, people actually go to the front of the book like, oh, actually there is, because that's what we can do is as leaders, our question is, how do I find the gray? How do I find better understanding of how they got there? If we turned it up in this neo thing we talked about today?
00:21:54:11 - 00:22:13:16
Speaker 2
Empathy. Right? I talk about the conversation I had with my dad about not being in my life growing up. And when I went to go confront him, but I had a great therapist who I still have, so please get there. Bill and I was in my Leadership Charlotte cohort, and they challenged me instead of going to confront my dad to go and hearing his story.
00:22:13:18 - 00:22:37:21
Speaker 2
And as I went to hear his story, well, it was profound. I learned a lot that I didn't know before, and it allowed me to see the gray and something I thought was very black and white. And why did I walk away like, oh, I still love the outcome. No, I still disagreed with the outcome, but I better understood how we got there.
00:22:37:23 - 00:22:45:15
Speaker 2
We developed a deeper sense of empathy and learning as leaders and as individuals. When we seek the gray.
00:22:45:17 - 00:23:15:09
Speaker 1
That's an amazing story and one that I think we can all learn from. Instead of confronting somebody go, go hear their story. And that's just imagine if more people did that. I mean, people come in hard with their, you know, this position and they're like, you know, I'm standing my ground on whatever it might be. And I think in this day and age, we have, you know, especially, you know, we're an election year and we're going to see a lot of political disagreement going on of of a lot of different aspects of society.
00:23:15:11 - 00:23:35:01
Speaker 1
But the reality is, what if we just I mean, like with Justin saying, what if we just ask somebody, tell me your story and yeah, where you're at around this and just and listen to him because there's either a reason or there's not a reason, or maybe somewhere in the middle, I don't know, but but but what do they have to say about it?
00:23:35:01 - 00:23:47:06
Speaker 1
It's fascinating. And I think once you do find people's stories, it's so much easier to start to empathize and understand. Oh, okay. That's a valid perspective. Yeah. So,
00:23:47:08 - 00:24:05:20
Speaker 2
It's it's fascinating. Got there. Yeah. Like, even if we don't feel it valid, it's like I, I see how you got there. And that's one of the, the tenets of Seeking the Gray is that we communicate better understanding, not that we completely get it, not that we 100% agree, but that we better understand how they got there.
00:24:05:22 - 00:24:25:04
Speaker 1
I love that I see how you got there. That's fascinating. I want to dig in a little bit to the the fifth pillar, because I think this one is I would love for people have to have, you know, like we have the swear jars when we were growing up. Or if I say the wrong word, you got to throw a little money in a swear jar or something like that.
00:24:25:06 - 00:24:46:07
Speaker 1
but what if we had, like, respect jars or disrespect jars or something like that? Yeah. I mean, you were tested on your respectful ness every day of people because I think this is something and use this as a bridge. And, you know, you talk about it in your talks, Aretha Franklin had something going on here. you know, when when sing and respect.
00:24:46:08 - 00:24:47:11
Speaker 2
Tell me.
00:24:47:13 - 00:24:51:01
Speaker 1
How did you come up with this final pillar, and why is it right? Yeah, yeah.
00:24:51:02 - 00:25:20:03
Speaker 2
It's clear. Yeah. So it's interesting I talk about, you know, that I respectfully disagree with Aretha Franklin, the late Queen of soul, because she said we needed a little respect. I was like, no, no, no, we needed a lot of it. And one of the first pieces, right for me was we had to redefine respect. And we did that early in the book is because we started saying things like, respect, I have to you have to earn my respect.
00:25:20:03 - 00:25:39:12
Speaker 2
And we start asking, why did this whole principle come from that? If somebody has to earn respect, we can choose to freely give it to them. We call respect the distant cousin of forgiveness, because we finally realize that forgiveness is not about the other person, it's about us. And the same thing is about respect is that we can choose to give it.
00:25:39:12 - 00:26:00:04
Speaker 2
Now, why is agree to respect? Pillar number five is because it's always our choice. Period is that we can choose. I hear a lot of people say, well, let's just agree to disagree. But what if instead of agree because you can still agree to disagree very disrespectfully, right? It could be very dismissive. But what if we agreed to respect and that is our choice.
00:26:00:04 - 00:26:20:23
Speaker 2
I can only control myself. I'm the only one. I give this in the story because it's really fascinating. It really got me here. one of my former colleagues, it's a former skinhead. I very, harmful beliefs towards other people in many categories. And I was very curious. I started cultivating the curiosity, all that kind of stuff, of really learning how we got it in and how we got out.
00:26:21:01 - 00:26:49:04
Speaker 2
And he shared, Adam, that he was like, Justin, we loved when people call this names. He's like, when he called it misogynist racist. And he's like, oh, we love that. He's like the thing that were the catalyst, the seeds of change for us and for me specifically, he said, was was the very same people I demeaned and disrespected that still chose to show me respect because, like, they'll never know that because he's not in the circles.
00:26:49:06 - 00:27:13:13
Speaker 2
But he was like, I started to realize it didn't compute. Why would I continue to disrespect people who are respecting me? And so that led me to this place of what if we're just called to be seed planters? What if I respect it's just a seed planted in someone of learning of growth. and it's building a bridge to them that maybe one day they'll walk over.
00:27:13:14 - 00:27:37:07
Speaker 2
Maybe they won't, but we'll never know unless we leave that bridge. Right. And so how do we do that? Right. Because I'm, again, about practical places and, a place about how we agree to respect a couple of ways. We call it a three, a faith framework. And three of faith is simply that there's three ways that we can fully acknowledge others, that we can fully acknowledge them when they 100% disagree, when they partially agree, and when 100% agree.
00:27:37:08 - 00:27:56:01
Speaker 2
But we've conflate it full, full acknowledgment with full agreement. I'll give you a couple of ways to approach it. Adam. Wow. I want to say thank you so much for choosing to have this conversation. I realize, you know, I've never heard some of what you shared before. Thank you for sharing it. Or. Wow, you brought up three.
00:27:56:01 - 00:28:13:13
Speaker 2
Really interesting point. number two, I want to dive in deeper. would you have any other research or places I can go find out more information about that or. Wow, this is a really tough one. Thank you for leaning in. You didn't have to, and I really appreciate you doing that. Now. Not in one of those instances.
00:28:13:13 - 00:28:29:14
Speaker 2
Adam, did I say I agree with you. But what I was able to do is leave you with a sense of full acknowledgment that, wow, I'm here with you. Right? And I appreciate you taking the time to have a conversation. Or that point really stood out to me. I want to dig in deeper or whatever that may be.
00:28:29:16 - 00:28:50:23
Speaker 2
I love what John's our Stanford professor. He created this concept called. Yes, because, she said because, you know, most people say no because. No, because you're stupid, right? Rather than like, you know, I'm sorry. It's thank you because but thank you because I've never heard that before. Thank you. Because. But really appreciating the person for taking the time to share their viewpoint.
00:28:51:01 - 00:29:10:22
Speaker 2
Now here's a where the rubber meets the road. I have to get. People ask me this all the time. So when do I share my perspective? So number one, you don't always have to share your perspective. You don't. All right. sometimes we feel like we do. But number two, and this is going to be countercultural because in our society, we don't do this.
00:29:11:00 - 00:29:34:07
Speaker 2
If asked to share your perspective, ask whether you're a leader. Right. you're in a position of leadership or not. And why is that important? Hey, Adam, thank you for sharing your perspective. I really appreciate you sharing something you never shared before. Would you be open to me, share my perspective. Now, what I've just done physiologically is I've allowed you to open up to receive what I'm going to share.
00:29:34:09 - 00:29:57:20
Speaker 2
But oftentimes we simply just force our view or our perspective on others. And we wonder why bridges what she knew, why walls go up. But if we ask someone if they say no, which very rarely happens, but sometimes it does, then why are we wasting our time? If they say yes, they've open themselves up to receive it in a way that we may not have been able to have a conversation before?
00:29:57:22 - 00:30:21:11
Speaker 1
Oh man, this is deep, I love this, I love the gratitude and I love the permission. And those things work so well together. I mean, they, you know, respect, I think is a gift. And yeah, we have the ability to give that gift so much more than we think we do. It's just so powerful. So thank you for sharing that.
00:30:21:11 - 00:30:35:13
Speaker 1
I mean, it's you've enlightened me today, Justin. I mean, this is this is fascinating. Justin, I, I have a I have a question for you. Where can our listeners find you online and find out more about your book, your your talks, things of that nature.
00:30:35:15 - 00:30:55:12
Speaker 2
Yeah. online specifically about the book you go to, how to respectfully disagree.com. that's you can find a lot of more information, quizzes, all that kind of stuff there. And, for the work that we do with organizations work meaningful.com. and then I love LinkedIn. So I'm Justin Jones are on LinkedIn. so that's where you can find more information.
00:30:55:13 - 00:31:18:14
Speaker 1
Awesome. Justin Jones Vasu, you have delivered a huge gift to us today of teaching us about how to pursue more respectful conversations and understand others that we speak to. This is really a lesson in the soft skills of leadership, and it's fast to me because I think this will change organizations. It will it will help us develop our next set of leaders.
00:31:18:16 - 00:31:33:20
Speaker 1
If we can fully deliver this and they can understand it, or even just expose them to it, because I think people will start to have this realization. So, Justin, I have a question. I ask all the great leaders on this show, and that's how do you start your day with a win?
00:31:33:22 - 00:31:43:06
Speaker 2
Wow, that's a good question. well, well, hey,
00:31:43:08 - 00:32:07:18
Speaker 2
Normally, I wish I could say it 100% of the time, but this is, what I'd normally do. The first thing I do when I get up is, I read the scripture the day, and, that's something I do kind of sits in my mindset and good direction. The second thing I do is I ask myself, what's one thing I'm really excited about looking forward to today?
00:32:07:20 - 00:32:28:09
Speaker 2
and as well as it's kind of a two for two for one is what was I grateful for from yesterday, like what happened yesterday that just made me really grateful. And then what am I looking forward to do? This one thing I'm looking forward to today. And then the third thing, is, created this thing called a meaningful day template.
00:32:28:11 - 00:32:47:19
Speaker 2
and it's kind of about how we create our own meaningful day. And so I'll go on my phone and I have a little, little thing that saved or put it in my notes section right now, and I've organized it into four piece and, and so I start the first thing is perspective, which I write down what I was grateful for from yesterday and what I'm looking forward to today.
00:32:47:20 - 00:33:06:07
Speaker 2
And then the other three piece is I start to craft my day and the first piece is personal. What if one of the three things I'm going to do for myself that's going to have a meaningful impact? in our day, the second is professional. What are one, two, three things I'm going to do that's gonna have a meaningful impact to make progress in my professional journey today.
00:33:06:09 - 00:33:24:21
Speaker 2
And the last one is people. What are one, two, three things we're going to do with and or for others today? Now, it's not always three, three, three. sometimes it's 1 to 1, sometimes it's 3 to 1 right. Or 111. The focus is not about how many of you you do is that you do at least one in each category.
00:33:24:23 - 00:33:42:17
Speaker 2
So if we started off with a powerful, positive perspective, if we started off with doing at least one thing for ourselves, one thing that had a meaningful impact on our professional day and one thing with or for others, that's a meaningful day. Now here's a sweet source. Got to put it in your calendar, or else it just becomes another list.
00:33:42:19 - 00:33:57:09
Speaker 2
And so we started putting it in our calendar. So that's what I'll do. Those are the three things that I'll lean in to do. before I start working out, before I take the dog for a walk, before I do all that stuff. And that's how I start off with the win. But, Adam, I love something. I want to ask you a deeper, another question.
00:33:57:09 - 00:34:07:01
Speaker 2
If you're open to, of course, you ask this question to a lot of people, it may maybe people haven't heard it in a while, but how do you start your day with the win?
00:34:07:03 - 00:34:24:14
Speaker 1
thank you, thank you. Justin, I, I try to beat my alarm clock every day. So I set my alarm for 530, and I have in my head that I want to see my alarm go off. So usually it's when I'm putting in my contacts or putting the collar on the dog to let them outside or something like that.
00:34:24:14 - 00:34:47:17
Speaker 1
But I'll, I'll, I'll try and start by winning in the race against my alarm clock. And it kind of sets my brain up to try and overachieve. So and then I, I mix up my, my workout drink and grab a cup of coffee and grab one of the dogs and head off to the gym and, get in a really good workout, go home, get cleaned up, and take.
00:34:47:21 - 00:35:09:19
Speaker 1
I finish my shower with an ice cold shower to stimulate the body and the brain and clear out all the toxins and focus on the day. And then I go and I take a look at my schedule that I've already scheduled ahead of time. So you plan the week before the week plans you. Yes. And so I've already got that plan and I hit the ground running.
00:35:09:21 - 00:35:30:12
Speaker 1
I love to see the people that we work with. I mean, it's fantastic to to meet new friends and see people on virtually, but it's great to go and share time with human beings face to face also. So love to do that. And, you know, make sure I spend my day being productive and reflect on that.
00:35:30:12 - 00:35:40:22
Speaker 1
I'll write down my productivity for the day, just, you know, the gratitudes. But it's it's systematized just as yours is. And it's very similar in many ways. So thank you for asking.
00:35:41:00 - 00:36:05:00
Speaker 2
And thank you for sharing. what I love that you shared because I love I love seeing the information about your podcast. You start with a win. I like to think about the opposite sometimes. How do people start with a loss? There's many ways to do that. And so it's kind of ending on this. what are the things we found in our research is that there are three things are actually killing the productivity of our days.
00:36:05:02 - 00:36:25:07
Speaker 2
when we start with them, number one, when the first thing that we do is check email, sends us down an interesting rabbit hole, and we get we lose sight of what we want to have meaningfully accomplished today. Number two, when the first thing that we do is check social media. yes, we love the kittens and the dances and all that kind of stuff that's moving.
00:36:25:09 - 00:36:47:21
Speaker 2
but it's still not making it meaningful progress. Social media managers hate when I say that. and then number three, when the first thing that we do this was surprising is check the news, Harvard actually study on, productivity. And they one of the things they found is that people check the news first thing, that there was a decrease in their productivity compared to those who did it.
00:36:47:21 - 00:37:12:04
Speaker 2
Now, specifically, they targeted and focused on negative news and what is majority of the news today. And so, like, what if we did things the same way that you did at home? All right. The way that you start your day beating the alarm clock, you know, engaging, taking a cold shower, none of those things you mentioned about checking email, checking social media and or checking the news.
00:37:12:04 - 00:37:19:14
Speaker 2
And so, all your listeners should be, blessed by, your wisdom and expertise.
00:37:19:16 - 00:37:51:09
Speaker 1
Well, thank you, Justin. Thank you for sharing that. I, I love this this research backed information like these things because it really is. I mean, it's self validating to so many of us. And also it's also allowing us to hold up the mirror and recognize where we can be better. And I think if we seek to be better every day, then, you know, we're going to deliver that inspiration to others also as a gift to help them find a way out of some of their challenges and into, you know, a lot of grace and happiness in their lives.
00:37:51:09 - 00:38:07:18
Speaker 1
So, thank you so much for being on start with on. We thank you so much for all that you do. We sincerely appreciate you, my friend. Make sure you check out Justin online. we'll we'll have those links in the show notes. And, Justin, thank you for starting your day with a win.