Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast

New team, new coach, new... personality disorder?

This week, Scott and Jamie lace up for one of the wildest corners of youth hockey: crazy coaches. You know the type - micromanaging 10-year-olds like it’s the Stanley Cup and making kids cry over line changes. We’ve seen it, lived it, and now we’re talking about it.

In this episode:
- Red flags that your kid’s coach might be a certified lunatic
- How crazy coaching affects confidence, development, and family sanity

Plus: The CHD boys pitch “The Crazy Hockey Dads Cooking Show” (yes, really), and unpack how good food and bad coaching both leave a mark.

If you’ve ever debated switching teams mid-season, hiding in the bleachers, or filing a complaint anonymously... this one’s for you.

What is Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast?

A relatable and honest podcast about the highs and lows of being a youth hockey parent. Join us as we share real stories, struggles, and wins from the rink, offering insights and support for parents navigating the world of youth hockey.

Jamie:

Yo. What's up, my man? Episode 13. Welcome back, everybody.

Scott:

Yo. How's it going? Everything's great. You?

Jamie:

Same old, same. So you just came back from a little trip.

Scott:

I did. Work trip. Nothing hockey related. Not Right.

Jamie:

Not that

Scott:

much fun. Yeah. Went to Nashville.

Jamie:

Yeah, man. That's cool. That's cool Listen.

Scott:

I wish I had more time there. It was a little too fast. Did not get to do too much. I did indulge in barbecue and Tennessee hot chicken sandwiches. They're not sandwiches.

Jamie:

I thought you were gonna say something else.

Scott:

Hot chick. No.

Jamie:

Hot chicks.

Scott:

No. What's the matter with you? That's what it

Jamie:

sounded like. It was coming out of your mouth.

Scott:

No, was hot chicken.

Jamie:

Hot chicken, Hot chicken.

Scott:

I went medium and it was a solid level of heat for this guy.

Jamie:

It was a little bit of a zip?

Scott:

I had some zip.

Jamie:

It good. You like zippy food?

Scott:

I do.

Jamie:

I do too.

Scott:

As I've gotten older Same. There's no shortage of hot sauce or chili flakes I could put on something.

Jamie:

Same. Very funny. I guess the palate changes that much. You're the ex chef. So you tell, is that correct?

Jamie:

As you get older, does the palate normally go towards spicy?

Scott:

I don't know that it That's a great question. I honestly don't know. That's been true for me.

Jamie:

Right. Same.

Scott:

Look.

Jamie:

I like spicy.

Scott:

You do? Yeah. My tolerance for it has It seems like what we're talking about is as you get older, your ability to handle heat perhaps increases.

Jamie:

Yeah, when I was younger, I didn't care

Scott:

for No, me neither.

Jamie:

I had no interest. Now when I have pizza, all I want is

Scott:

Chili flakes?

Jamie:

Oh my god.

Scott:

You know what's really good? I love it. Yeah. Love it. Know you should get?

Scott:

There's like a spicy chili crunch. It's like an Asian condiment and it's got like They used sprinkle on pizza? You could put it on pizza but it's got like chili flakes and garlic and fried shallots and it's crunchy and spicy And it's kind of like it's an oil, so it's oil based. It's not like can dump it on your pizza.

Jamie:

Crazy Hockey Dad's cooking show.

Scott:

Get chili crunch.

Jamie:

I like this.

Scott:

Yeah, man.

Jamie:

Maybe we make it like a segment.

Scott:

We could have that.

Jamie:

Crazy Hockey Dad's cooking show.

Scott:

We could have that. Absolutely. Nice. Alright. So you were naturally We could be like the next Martha and Snoop Dogg.

Jamie:

Yeah. Do they have a show?

Scott:

Oh, they for sure they did.

Jamie:

They where was why did I not notice?

Scott:

I don't know. But talk

Jamie:

about that. Wait. Wait. Martha Stewart and Snoop

Scott:

had a show? 100%.

Jamie:

Like a cooking show? What was it?

Scott:

I have to look it up. I I don't know off the top of my head, but they definitely were on TV together.

Jamie:

Why did I not know this?

Scott:

I don't

Jamie:

Did it do well?

Scott:

I don't know. I mean, I I don't know. Maybe. You can look it up. Anyhow, yeah, it was in Nashville.

Scott:

No

Jamie:

hockey or

Scott:

work related. No, like I said, I had a little bit of food, local food.

Jamie:

Right.

Scott:

Did not really take in too much culture. There was like a country music fest that was at like, I think it was at Nissan Stadium, I

Jamie:

think is the name of Is that where Titans play? Yeah. I feel like there's always a music fest in

Scott:

the Yeah, for sure.

Jamie:

I mean, you walk down the street and there's a music fest in every single location you walk into.

Scott:

No, no doubt. But what I'm saying is that it didn't like a stadium. Was actually like

Jamie:

a concert.

Scott:

Yeah, It was a three day festival, so it was definitely lively when I got there.

Jamie:

I was gonna say, so the city was crowded.

Scott:

Yeah, for sure.

Jamie:

Can I just tell you,

Scott:

oh my

Jamie:

god, actually have a hockey story about Nashville that I can get into at the end of this episode? So what was crazy about Nashville is so it's becoming a hockey location, by the way. Downtown Nashville is becoming so the rinks are outside of Downtown Nashville. But Nashville itself is becoming like a tournament spot. Like, people are going to Downtown Nashville to play ice hockey.

Scott:

Yeah. That makes sense.

Jamie:

So you stay downtown and you kinda drive like a half hour to the rinks outside. The the only

Scott:

rink That's pretty normal.

Jamie:

Yeah. The only rink I saw that was in town is obviously where the predators play.

Scott:

Okay.

Jamie:

Right? Which is cool. It's a really cool building, right in the center of kind of like right off the main main strip.

Scott:

Yep.

Jamie:

Right?

Scott:

Who else plays in that arena? Do you know? Like just like collegiate sports?

Jamie:

I'm trying to of college of colleges. I mean, I don't think that does not Knoxville is not even anywhere near that. I'm going to say nobody. That's my I'm going to say nobody. Maybe they have minor league as you can

Scott:

all hear my dog barking in the background.

Jamie:

I'm going to say nobody, Scott. I don't if anybody does. Yeah. The rink

Scott:

is, so you didn't see the rink? You didn't see where you No. No. I did not

Jamie:

see It's kind of on a side street. Like, kind of that feeds into the main You

Scott:

were there for a game?

Jamie:

So, oh, I was not there for an NHL game. We were there in July for a hockey tournament.

Scott:

But you didn't play where the Preds play, whatever

Jamie:

you No, We didn't play where the Preds play.

Scott:

We play outside of Downtown

Jamie:

Nashville, which is listen, everything's kind of flat there. So it's easy. Once you get outside the city, traffic is a piece of cake.

Scott:

It's easy.

Jamie:

Yeah, it's really easy. Listen, whenever we talk about cities, I recommend staying downtown. There's so much to do downtown, like walking distance.

Scott:

So much to Just from the little I don't know how many hours I was there for. But it seemed like there was a good number of different neighborhoods that all had something different to offer. There is. Yes. And that was, yeah, it seemed like a lot of new construction over there.

Jamie:

Everywhere.

Scott:

I was speaking to a local woman there who

Jamie:

Crazy construction.

Scott:

Yeah, don't know that I saw, I mean, it seemed like there's a lot of new construction. But Nashville, I was talking to a woman who had grown up in Memphis and then was in LA for years and then relocated to Nashville. She was saying when I asked her when she was younger if she would ever go to Nashville. And she said, no, it's all relatively more recent, like the Yeah. That people have been flocking there I think it's true.

Scott:

To start to either relocate or whatever the deal is.

Jamie:

But the city's exploding.

Scott:

Super cool.

Jamie:

Yeah. And what's crazy is that the main street, even on a midday Monday, is jammed. Like jammed.

Scott:

Because that's where people are working and

Jamie:

No. People are hanging out and going in and of bars.

Scott:

Okay.

Jamie:

Like Monday midday, which I was surprised at.

Scott:

Interesting.

Jamie:

Like I didn't see a time where it was actually quiet there.

Scott:

Well, I'm sure, like, any of you you find places in New York City where there's, like, you know, a highly touristy area, there's probably similar. It's like No? People are partying, like, all the time. Interesting.

Jamie:

Like, I I didn't see I didn't really see a time where people weren't hanging out on

Scott:

me on IHG. I missed that.

Jamie:

Yeah. Yeah, it was cool. Yeah. It was cool fun. Yeah.

Jamie:

Playing ice hockey there was fun. I'm not gonna lie. Pretty easy to get to.

Scott:

So a question. When you were out there, where were the other teams from?

Jamie:

So we were playing with the Boston Junior Bruins, so obviously from the Mass area, right, Northeast. Were And

Scott:

the Chicago teams?

Jamie:

There was Western Selects were there. Teams from like

Scott:

Pittsburgh?

Jamie:

Yeah.

Scott:

St. Louis?

Jamie:

I'm trying to think if Penns and Leets were there. It Spring, so it was like a conglomerate of East Coast wizard y type teams. But it was all really high end, like very high there were a couple Canadian teams

Scott:

who were huge. That's awesome.

Jamie:

Huge. Canadian kids are enormous.

Scott:

Why do you say what? Like, because

Jamie:

every time we play them, they're massive. I don't know

Scott:

if it's something in the water or something in the beef up there

Jamie:

or like I I don't get it. Every time we come in contact with the Canadian team, they're enormous. Interesting. And super aggressive and like physical, like in a good way.

Scott:

That's awesome.

Jamie:

Yeah. Like, I I wish our kids played like that in The States. You know?

Scott:

Like, wonder how different their development models are.

Jamie:

I don't know. I I almost wanna go talk, bring somebody on the podcast to kind of give us an idea of what it's like up there. Should get Kirk from Ontario to come on and talk to

Scott:

us. Right? Yeah, we should

Jamie:

talk to We totally could. Right? But yeah, man, every time I see a Canadian team, they're enormous.

Scott:

Interesting. Yeah. That has nothing to do with the coaching models. But I wonder if body contact, how it's because when I was going through it, when I say it, like the coaching certifications and the American developmental model. You know, body contact's encouraged as young as eight you.

Scott:

Right. But it's not like the small area games, like focus on that. So like, you know, when you read through it and you like you study it, it it certainly encourages it and says there's a place for it and you're angling and it Right. Certainly talks about it. It doesn't discourage it, but there isn't like a lot of, at least from the coaching or the the stuff that I went through, I didn't come across a ton of

Jamie:

Of body contact.

Scott:

Contact. Which makes sense because there's priorities in place. I I wonder I wonder if like in other countries, not just limited to Canada, but like when does body contact become like a real intentional part of the Of teaching. Of teaching and

Jamie:

teaching, coaching. Yeah. That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, our kids just started doing it, but, like, up until they're, like, halfway like, after January Yeah.

Jamie:

Of our year Pee Wee

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

Like, our our the coach was was letting them hit against the boards only in practice.

Scott:

Listen Not open ice. When I was coaching Other

Jamie:

than that, it was not taught.

Scott:

Listen, when I was coaching at you Yeah. We had like, we would do angling drills. So we

Jamie:

would do angling drills.

Scott:

And we would have Yeah. But that's like what But what we would do is even intentionally have kids skating down the boards at not like 7075% and have a defenseman

Jamie:

away the

Scott:

hands take backwards and pivot and then, yeah. And then just do it at slower speeds just so they get comfortable feeling it and no one's trying too hard to elude the oncoming body contact. But I think it was really important part to at least do, I don't know how to say regularly, have the kids drill it in practice.

Jamie:

The season is going to be very big because Domik is hitting this year.

Scott:

Have they I mean, during your spring practices, did you have any, like, checking?

Jamie:

They were, yeah. Like I said, so our coach

Scott:

half of this season It's like both the things he did for all of spring is body check.

Jamie:

So after January 1, he let our team hit in practice against the boards only. And then obviously that carried through into the spring.

Scott:

I feel like there's got to be some places where that's the only thing they do, like in the spring

Jamie:

and late summer practice. Sure it's a lot of it.

Scott:

So when they go out there, it's

Jamie:

like Yeah. Yeah. You know what else they work with?

Scott:

They're going to play like the Florida Panthers around here.

Jamie:

My god, how physical. We will get into last night's game. Will get into last night's game. Talk about physicality. We will get into last night's game at the end of this.

Jamie:

We're going to talk about crazy coaches. That's our topic for the day. And then we're going get into the NHL game because last night's game was wild.

Scott:

That was yeah.

Jamie:

It was wild. I actually can't wait to talk about that. Yeah, so you know what I speaking of body contact, speaking of being physical, you know what I really want Dominic to start doing? What? Which nobody does anymore, I want him to learn how to hip

Scott:

check. Hip check? Yes.

Jamie:

Oh, I do. I want him to hip check because he's he's not a big dude.

Scott:

He's good height for it.

Jamie:

I want him to learn how to like Scott Stevens hip check.

Scott:

Yo. Darius Casparitis. Remember him?

Jamie:

I I 100% do. There were guys that were like they were like masters of it. It's such a good move when you can oh, when you can do it, it's and nobody's expecting it.

Scott:

Yeah. I used to try it in high school.

Jamie:

Did

Scott:

you? I did it a few times. Put one of my own teammates, like, over the boards. Did did you? Yes.

Jamie:

Like, by the bench?

Scott:

Yes. He thought it

Jamie:

was In practice?

Scott:

He thought it was the best thing ever.

Jamie:

He was he was excited about it?

Scott:

He was so excited about it. So excited about it. Funny. That's so ridiculous.

Jamie:

Did the coach care? The coach is like, no. Nice job, Levine.

Scott:

I don't think so.

Jamie:

I mean,

Scott:

that was kind of like my MO.

Jamie:

That's cool. I want Dominic to learn that. Yeah. Because it's such a lost art,

Scott:

I feel. Yeah. You definitely don't see it much.

Jamie:

If although, I must say last night, I feel like Eckblad tried to hip check McDavid, but then kinda came up too high. And McDavid kinda like spun like a top and they kinda lost his balance

Scott:

and fell Yeah. He fell awkwardly on that. I don't know. It was strange. He went down the tunnel.

Jamie:

Oh, he left.

Scott:

He he left. He came right back, but he definitely walked down the tunnel. Elite listen. That's what the broadcaster said.

Jamie:

Right. Right. Oh, interesting. Alright. We're we're gonna get we're gonna get to Florida

Scott:

and be too serious with you. So you wanna talk coaches?

Jamie:

I do. Yes. Yes. I oh, and and by the way, I just wanna update everybody. So I have changed my spring plans.

Scott:

You have?

Jamie:

I have.

Scott:

Okay. What are your spring plans now?

Jamie:

I'm not doing I'm not doing as much I'm not doing camps.

Scott:

Like, not gonna do. I said I was gonna Spring. But spring's almost over?

Jamie:

Spring summer, call it that. Okay.

Scott:

Yeah. For for the off season. Off season. Copy.

Jamie:

Alright. So Dominic has been asking me

Scott:

Yes.

Jamie:

To skate more and more.

Scott:

Good for him.

Jamie:

So I have had not that I've had to, but I went out and I found places where he can skate on a more regular basis.

Scott:

That's awesome.

Jamie:

Yeah, he's going to continue to do skating with those like eights down. Right?

Scott:

That's like once a week.

Jamie:

That's once a week. So we're going to do that. He does like a power skate on Friday afternoons. He's going to continue to do that. And then I think I'm going to do like a Tuesday, Thursday.

Jamie:

The Swedish guy who has that ridiculous skating style, I think I'm gonna bring Dominic to him Tuesday, Thursday as well. So we're gonna do Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday.

Scott:

Jesus. Nothing on the weekends. Nothing on Wednesday. Until book something.

Jamie:

Dominic will go to He keeps asking me, Scott. I don't know

Scott:

what to do. Listen, I've said He

Jamie:

keeps asking me. His mindset is changing. Which is cool.

Scott:

That is cool. Yeah. The one thing that I've read, I've even said is even if your kid's asking for it, if they ask you for Reese's peanut butter cups for breakfast, that doesn't it's a good That

Jamie:

is true. So we're going to be away for a good chunk of the summer.

Scott:

Right, so just by default, you're probably not going get in that many hours because you're not around the

Jamie:

whole summer. Correct. We're leaving June the week of the twenty fifth ish. And we will be back till after July 10 or something like that. So you and I are going have to do this remotely.

Scott:

Oh, okay.

Jamie:

Yeah, so you and I are going figure out how to do that remotely where we can do a split screen for me like in a hotel or on a beach or wherever we are.

Scott:

On a beach.

Jamie:

Yeah, I'm going be in a bunch of different places. So we're going to we're driving through Washington DC.

Scott:

Okay.

Jamie:

We're gonna stay in DC for two nights.

Scott:

Yes.

Jamie:

Then we're going down to Roanoke because my old one wants to go to Roanoke, Virginia for so we're gonna be there for two nights. Yeah. Then we're

Scott:

gonna What's the draw there?

Jamie:

My my For him? My older one likes elevators. Oh. So there's like an elevator museum down there?

Scott:

No way.

Jamie:

Yeah. I I had no idea.

Scott:

So he and and A future engineer on

Jamie:

our house. Yeah. So we're staying at Nancy found cool place in Roanoke to stay, so we're staying, like, downtown. Yeah. It's like a little city.

Scott:

You love downtown.

Jamie:

There's so much to do. Yeah. You know? It's culture. There's, like, galleries or museums or stuff.

Jamie:

Right? It's just easy. Right? So we're staying downtown there. So we're doing Downtown DC for a couple days.

Jamie:

We're doing Roanoke, downtown Roanoke. Then we're going over to like Hot Springs, Virginia

Scott:

Okay.

Jamie:

To a place called Homestead. We're gonna be there for a couple days. Then we're going over to the Greenbrier in West Virginia.

Scott:

That's sick.

Jamie:

So excited for this place. Yeah. This place has been around forever. It actually has a Cold War bunker under it, as my dog again is barking in the background. So so it's got a Cold War bunker that that was that was built for congress Yeah.

Jamie:

To operate if nukes started going off. No way. Right? Yeah. So it houses like a thousand, you know, congress members.

Jamie:

It's It's wild.

Scott:

That's super cool.

Jamie:

Yeah. So the US government built it on to the Greenbrier years ago. So now they give tours of it, which is awesome.

Scott:

Sweet. Yeah.

Jamie:

So I'm looking forward to that. And then we're kind of making our way up back through we're making our way back through DC, and we're gonna do, like, the Annapolis for a couple days. Yeah. And this place called the Inn At Perry Cabin, which is where Wedding Crashers was filmed.

Scott:

Motorbones, son of a bitch, dude.

Jamie:

They go for speed, they go for comfort.

Scott:

That movie is epic.

Jamie:

Oh, so good. So good. Good. Stogies, sure. Yeah.

Jamie:

So, yeah. A gift pod.

Scott:

It's coming with me. I could go forever. Listen, get it So Dom is going to, when you're around Yeah. You're upping the lot of the volume of of on ice work.

Jamie:

And it's have to tell you, it's just skating. Like, it the the the Friday is just just skating. Right. No puck. Right.

Jamie:

Tuesday, Thursday is just skating. No puck. Right. And then when he's with those older kids, he'll do whatever they're doing. They do like turning and shooting and sticking and that type of stuff.

Jamie:

Yep. But I want him the coach said me, Does Dominic wanna continue with the older kids? And I said, Sure.

Scott:

That's great.

Jamie:

You know? So yeah. So so I wanted to I wanted to not be a hypocrite and tell everybody what my plan is. So I did ratchet it up a little bit, which I have which lashed it's the exact opposite of what we did last summer.

Scott:

Yeah. And and this is this is strictly on the heels of him asking for more.

Jamie:

Him asking for it. Yes.

Scott:

Right.

Jamie:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.

Jamie:

So, hopefully, my dog, as she's ran into the room, won't won't take away won't be

Scott:

look she's looking for chitlunks.

Jamie:

Pull her down.

Scott:

You can

Jamie:

fall down.

Scott:

Yeah. Let's go.

Jamie:

Come. Come As she as she jumps into our frame. Oh, but another one. Yeah. So and they're all coming.

Scott:

Perfect.

Jamie:

As long as as long as they don't pull down our stuff. But yeah, so our topic today is coaches. We've had a couple rough coaches our time here in the game. And I'm sure you have too. And listen, you also coach.

Jamie:

So I'm curious to hear your thoughts on kind of all this stuff.

Scott:

Yeah, sure.

Jamie:

See you guys.

Scott:

Yeah, so I think probably everyone's had good, bad, and otherwise experiences with coaches.

Jamie:

Right.

Scott:

And yeah, and I coach myself. Like you said, I coached Otto for one

Jamie:

Couple, right?

Scott:

One, two, three. I think it was like three seasons and like five different teams between summer. One year he was on two teams.

Jamie:

Right, so you not only club, but you did a bunch of other stuff too with him.

Scott:

Yeah, we did club plus. And yeah, went through all the coaching training and all that stuff. Right, right. Nice. But yeah, so yeah, I can definitely relate to some of these topics because I've seen it.

Scott:

I've also talked to coaches as well and kind of like maybe heard some perspectives Mhmm. That like, you know, a parent might not hear, like, you know, coach to coach gonna talk. And it's it's certainly look, everyone there's more than one side to every story. Yes. And so Yes.

Jamie:

There is. That's true.

Scott:

Yeah. Very true. And some people just operate with blinders on. But yeah, I think just not that you asked this question specifically, but just communication, I think, is the biggest part. The biggest part, at the younger ages, when there's younger kids and parents and there's less independence and there's more parent coaches, I just think communication is the biggest piece in order to help manage expectations.

Jamie:

So what if the coach is totally off the rails?

Scott:

Well, I think

Jamie:

you need give

Scott:

sense of what does that even mean?

Jamie:

And I'm not talking like playing time. I'm just talking about the coach is just and you know what? Maybe this is more so I came from, like, the, like, the interior of a team. Right? I wasn't, a normal parent.

Scott:

So know the inside track on a few other things also.

Jamie:

The normal parents, we insulated a lot of them from this stuff.

Scott:

Yep.

Jamie:

It still leaked through

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

On a on a number of fronts. But what do you do when the when the coach is just, like, so off the rails?

Scott:

I I

Jamie:

Not not even about, like, kids playing time or, like, like, just, like,

Scott:

crazy Personality?

Jamie:

Just crazy ideas. Ideas that are irrational and not ever going to come to fruition.

Scott:

But these ideas are being so let me just back up and say, if there's such a red flag, you know, then I think that just goes right to the organization. That just gets escalated to the top. No? Again, I'm not exactly I'm not sure of the context, like

Jamie:

Well, it it the situation exactly,

Scott:

but what all I'm saying is that if you got like a super, a super crazy situation, then it sounds like someone needs to talk to the organization.

Jamie:

No? So yes, that did wind up happening with our assistant coach. A lot of things so the team that we started, me and the other two fathers, the Rockets team we started, we got started very late in the process. Okay?

Scott:

I mean, before the next season started.

Jamie:

Like, it was we're really pushing up close against tryouts. So we had Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jamie:

So we did not have a lot of time to put it together. So the problem is is that most coaches, as you know, for youth hockey, get picked in December or November.

Scott:

For sure.

Jamie:

And they're then broadcast on social media. Right? Such and such is going to be the twelve year coach. Such and such is going to be the tier one coach, right? Yeah.

Jamie:

You know how it is. So here we were in the spring trying to put together a team. When I say spring, I mean spring. You know, tryouts were in, like, April, and here we were in, like, February. We were young, so the season stopped earlier.

Jamie:

Yeah. Right? Like, we were done at

Scott:

the Like, February.

Jamie:

The February.

Scott:

Right. Correct. Like, March is like, So

Jamie:

we did not have a lot of time to put this together. Not that it was last minute, but it just came together last minute.

Scott:

Okay.

Jamie:

Because we realized that we had to start it now. And we were like, oh, shit. So we had to just kind of go.

Scott:

Yep.

Jamie:

Right? So we got this one skills coach who was going to be our assistant coach. Okay? So again, finding coaches is not easy. So we got this assistant coach who then had a friend of his who wanted to get into youth hockey coaching, stuff like that.

Jamie:

So he kind of like said, oh, my buddy will do it with me.

Scott:

So you an assistant coach before you had a head coach?

Jamie:

Yeah. How does that work?

Scott:

Because the On the high

Jamie:

end assistant coach did not want to be the head coach. He just wanted to do skills. He didn't want to travel with the team. Like, he didn't and it was problem for us because what happened is this head coach and the assistant coach, they kinda said, once the season starts, like, you take one practice, I'll take the next practice. You take this practice, I'll take that.

Jamie:

Like, they What? I'm pretty sure they were never there together.

Scott:

That's weird.

Jamie:

Well, again, we were kind of hamstrung when we really didn't have much of a choice.

Scott:

Okay.

Jamie:

Right? So I remember what happened is again, we're talking about crazy coaches. Yeah. Okay? I remember our assistant coach comes to us like when did he come to us?

Jamie:

The head coach couldn't do the springs. The assistant coach couldn't do the spring stuff. But he comes to us like I'm trying to remember what happened in the spring. Maybe we didn't have any spring practices or maybe the skills the assistant coach slash skills guy ran them. And then when the season started in August, the the skills coach, who's our assistant coach, comes up to us and he's like, I need more money.

Scott:

Like for him personally?

Jamie:

Yeah. Season's gonna start in like two weeks and he's like, Yeah, need more money.

Scott:

What's the

Jamie:

He's like, Yeah, this is not gonna work for me. He's like, I need more money.

Scott:

What a strategist.

Jamie:

Me and two of their dads, one dad kind of took the lead on it and he went and he actually got him more money. He went to the organization and said hey, listen, we have a problem here. He's looking for more money. Can we do anything? So we did.

Jamie:

One dad, me and the other two dads, the one dad of the three of us jumped on board. He's like Jamie, I can do this. And he did. He got more money. Went to the organization and he's like, have a problem here.

Jamie:

He's like, I need help. And they did. They gave him this guy more money. So what the problem was, though, is once the I remember our head coach, the time he ever met our kids Yeah. Was in a locker room right before our game at our showcase up in Worcester.

Scott:

That was when he met the Yeah. Yeah. The head coach.

Jamie:

Yeah. Yeah. Was not there the entire spring. He he literally came in, like, I wanna say it was, like, the August and drove up to Worcester.

Scott:

You guys weren't up you guys must have been upset. No?

Jamie:

It was concerning. All right. Let me back up.

Scott:

That's a little strange.

Jamie:

Let me back up. Me and these other two dads.

Scott:

All

Jamie:

right. So we had our assistant coachskills guy in place for tryouts.

Scott:

Yes.

Jamie:

Okay?

Scott:

And sorry to interrupt you, just curious. Did you field any questions from parents being like, you want me to bring my high end player to your team, but you don't yet have a head coach.

Jamie:

Is that The skills guy was a very sought after skills guy in our area.

Scott:

Yes.

Jamie:

And we were putting a very high level team together, a developmental team. So we had a lot of selling points.

Scott:

Because were selling that.

Jamie:

The head coach was not an issue for us. For whatever reason, it didn't become an issue. People jumped on board because of the kids that we had coming to the team. The developmental model, which we've talked about on this podcast, was more practice than it was games.

Scott:

Yes.

Jamie:

Okay? And the skills guy was very sought after for our area.

Scott:

Right. Okay. Understood.

Jamie:

And the skills guy's like, oh, my buddy again, we're dying for a head coach. A skills guy didn't want to be a head coach. He's like, my buddy will do it. He played like I don't if he played like not mind really hockey, but he was a decent hockey player when he was younger. Okay.

Scott:

He knows the game.

Jamie:

Yes, correct. So I want to say so we were all kind of on board already at tryouts. So kids came to tryouts. The team was picked. And I remember when me and those other two dads spoke to this head coach for the time a conference call between the four of us, right?

Jamie:

And I remember getting off the phone call with him. And I remember going to the other two and be like, yeah, we can't let him talk to any parents ever.

Scott:

No. I

Jamie:

was like, we have to hide him from talking to our parents. We just have to.

Scott:

Just like the personality?

Jamie:

His personality is not bad, but he just I don't know what it is. He just kind of rambles and he has insane ideas that will never ever, ever come to fruition. He found out that the tuition that all of our kids are paying and he knew we were like a development team and we had a kiddie on the side, like a side fund to fund expenditures.

Scott:

Now where did that come from?

Jamie:

So we raised a lot of money through Super Bowl pools. It was raised by money on the side.

Scott:

Got it.

Jamie:

Yeah, One of our dads kind of took the lead on that. So we had like a kitty of money on the side to pay for like the tournaments or the showcase that we went to that Rockets were not gonna pay for. Because we went to a bunch of them. Right?

Scott:

Right.

Jamie:

Because again, we were just a developmental thing. We didn't play in a league.

Scott:

So let me ask a quick just, you don't have to give specific numbers. Just curious for a team that's pitching a developmental model Yeah. Versus let's say a normal, for lack of better words

Jamie:

Yeah.

Scott:

Club team. Yeah. Was the tuition for what you were offering, was that was that a more expensive proposition?

Jamie:

Honestly, was like it was like $11.12 grand. Woah. Maybe 10 to 12, call it, without like travel expenses. Like

Scott:

That's not cheap.

Jamie:

It was a lot of ice.

Scott:

For a young age group.

Jamie:

Don't forget, were practicing.

Scott:

Mean, it's expensive no matter what.

Jamie:

Don't forget, we were practicing. Maybe it was eight to eleven. Right? But it was not a cheap tuition.

Scott:

Right, but that was ten u.

Jamie:

Right? We were squirt majors.

Scott:

Yeah. So that's still 10 you.

Jamie:

Yeah. You know, it it was a lot of ice, though. Again, we had, like, nine hours of practice ice. Right? And then we were and we we played the Northeast pack.

Jamie:

So we had, like, a showcase, like, every month with that. And then we went to our own tournaments. And the tournaments we went to were not small tournaments. Like, we went to, like, Tampa. We went to, like, the Exposure Cups.

Scott:

You're flying. But this well, at least the Tampa

Jamie:

you obviously. We we did. We flew to Chicago.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

You know? You know? So we we were doing. Right? So we had, like More

Scott:

than that.

Jamie:

Yeah. We had we had money on the side to, like, to pay for the things we were doing.

Scott:

Let me ask you a question.

Jamie:

It was run like a little business, to be honest with you.

Scott:

Have you come across that?

Jamie:

It doesn't happen a lot.

Scott:

Right, I think for the younger age groups is the most surprising part.

Jamie:

Had like one of the moms was like the treasurer, so we checked in with her regularly about the balance of the account. It was cool. Was different than any yeah. Again, we're talking about crazy coaches.

Scott:

So you get off the phone with a conference

Jamie:

call and The three of us and the guy who was going to coach the team. And we were like, oh, fuck. Like, we can't let we have to, like, keep him away from our parents because if

Scott:

You didn't think to go to, like, the assistant coach and be like, bro. No. What what who's this?

Jamie:

They're buddies. They were, like, good friends. Was they the the fuck's wrong with your friend?

Scott:

Wait. Maybe. I don't know.

Jamie:

I get but the guy

Scott:

You have to have some self awareness. Like, you're telling me that that assistant coach didn't know this about his friend?

Jamie:

I don't I don't know the answer to that. I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. I never asked. Never asked.

Scott:

There's multiple points of failure that could have probably been prevented.

Jamie:

I never asked, but all right. So again, as my story kind of goes on here, Shut your voice.

Scott:

Oh, you you got a little kitty? You know, this is feeling a little light, this paycheck.

Jamie:

No. But what he did say was, he's like, I have a great idea. He he's he's he's saying

Scott:

I will.

Jamie:

He's saying this to the three of us. Right?

Scott:

I will be in charge of the money.

Jamie:

Yes.

Scott:

That's what he said.

Jamie:

He goes, I have a better idea. He goes, we can move this to this rink. He goes, we can he goes, all the money can come to me. My wife will manage it. And we're like, are you out of your absolute fucking mind?

Jamie:

Like, no. Are you nuts? Are you out of your absolute skull? But he would say crazy things like that. Yeah.

Jamie:

So we're talking about crazy coaches. Like, I mean, great again, and he's a nice dude. He's really good with the kids. But shit, man, he just said some insane things.

Scott:

Okay. That was one

Jamie:

want hear the other

Scott:

one and one another insane things? Well, go

Jamie:

Tell me go ahead.

Scott:

No. No. The questions I have to ask, already know the answer to. So go ahead.

Jamie:

You sure you don't want to ask it?

Scott:

Yeah. Sure. Can ask. I was I was you know By way. No.

Scott:

I was going to ask about the if that any of this crazy trickled down to the kids, but you had preface by saying that you needed to keep them away from the parents. So that answered my question.

Jamie:

It we it didn't work. We With

Scott:

the kids. You just said he's good with the kids.

Jamie:

Yes. But it didn't work keeping him away from the parents. It didn't work.

Scott:

Oh, no. I understand. That

Jamie:

didn't work.

Scott:

Oh, yes. But but the kids part, that was never an issue.

Jamie:

He was always really good with the kids.

Scott:

All right. So so our

Jamie:

assistant coach, like, month into the season, right, the assistant coach starts showing up late or not showing up at all and canceling stuff. Right?

Scott:

This is after the pay raise?

Jamie:

This is after the pay raise. We have kids driving from three hours away from Hershey, from Binghamton, like two hours and change from Long Island, like Upstate New York. Our kids were coming from everywhere because of our model. And so it was not an option for you to cancel late because people were already on their way. Right.

Jamie:

Right? And it wasn't an option for you to show up late because, like, come on, what are you doing? Number one, you're setting a terrible example for the kids showing up late.

Scott:

And a lot of these families are making very special accommodations.

Jamie:

Correct. So the assistant coach or we're banging, so we as the 3P that put the team together, we're banging heads with him immediately. With the assistant coach, all right? He was then not being nice to the kids.

Scott:

The assistant coach. The guy that got you his buddy, who's crazy, then all of a sudden becoming Correct. Started becoming a problem himself?

Jamie:

Correct. Wow. So what happened is they wound up firing him.

Scott:

No.

Jamie:

Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Jamie:

They they yeah.

Scott:

Wait. What was the feeling amongst the parent group at this point? Because you were on the you were on the mister in charge side.

Jamie:

So so it was a problem because, again, he's a was a very good skills guy. So the parents are looking at us going, where are we gonna get our skills from? And we're like, oh, shit. Right? So what we did is we went out with this little kitty we had inside, and we hired Topline.

Jamie:

Oh. Yes. So we had like so those of you who know Topline, these are all guys who play very, very high in our area, very high level college hockey and pro. I want to say so Justin, Boo, RJ. RJ played at West Point.

Jamie:

I've got

Scott:

Justin was at Michigan.

Jamie:

Justin was at Michigan. Boo was at Michigan. They both played at University of Michigan. I wanna say Boo was

Scott:

a Ranger, New York Ranger. Justin was a St. Louis Blue. Yeah.

Jamie:

And there's a couple other guys, but those were the main three that came

Scott:

in Super high

Jamie:

end. And did our skill. So one of their dads

Scott:

didn't realize that they

Jamie:

So Chris grabbed Topline because he had a good relationship with Boo and he's like, hey,

Scott:

How how long have they been do you have any idea how long they'd been doing their skill

Jamie:

stuff? Yeah. Couple years.

Scott:

Already? By that point, there's already a couple years they

Jamie:

were doing their Oh, okay.

Scott:

It was.

Jamie:

Oh, I

Scott:

wanna say like two or something.

Jamie:

They were still fairly newer in our area.

Scott:

Oh, but they were also before they moved upstate.

Jamie:

Correct. That's right. That's right.

Scott:

Because they were

Jamie:

They were working out of there. I wanna say that gym was just being built that they had that got built up by that rink. So we had this side kitty of money, but we needed to pay our top line coaches, which was essentially our skills

Scott:

practice, Yeah, okay. So that was a good replacement.

Jamie:

I think so. So the parents were happy with that. So again, we had this kitty of money

Scott:

on the

Jamie:

So the coach comes to one of the other dads that started it, and he's like, You know what would be really good? If If I manage. No. He's like, If we take some of the money that we have and feel that to have the kids feel like they're being sponsored by somebody, like Howie's hockey. There you go.

Jamie:

Like Howie. So he's like, let's make them feel like they're sponsored by Howie's hockey. So we'll buy them all like grip tape and stick tape. So one of our dads goes on the team chat and he's like he goes to the chat and he's like, everybody's like put in what hockey roles you want, what you want from Howie's hockey and we're to put a big order together. Right?

Scott:

So

Jamie:

everybody and I was like, what the fuck, dude? I'm like, buy your own hockey tape. We need this money for tournaments and to pay top line. I was like, What's going on here? So I don't know what the parents thought but like, so then one dad comes to us, like, I need a check for he's like, I need a check to be reimbursed from Howie's.

Jamie:

And we were like, Sorry, what? So the coach got into this dad's ear and the dad ran with it and all of sudden starts taking orders of hockey tape. Like $350 worth of hockey

Scott:

tape. Per family?

Jamie:

No. That would have been ridiculous. No, not per family. But just in general. And I remember one of our dads, a dad from Binghamton, he's like, dude, I have like 95 rolls of hockey tape.

Jamie:

He's like, if you want hockey, just ask me and I'll give it to you. Ben's like, just let me know what you need and I'll hand it to you. Like, wait. Who like, I didn't I didn't I was like, I don't need anything. Like like like, I bought I could buy my own hockey tape.

Scott:

But it wasn't clear amongst leadership who was in charge who needs to sign off for green light

Jamie:

searches like So Chris and I thought that this other dad was going to pay for it out of his pocket. And he came to our treasure and asked for the money.

Scott:

So he didn't ask anyone like, was he a false

Jamie:

It was the coach

Scott:

like, the coach

Jamie:

and his dad.

Scott:

But did the dad think he was in good faith?

Jamie:

Like I don't know. Did he realize

Scott:

he was a part of, like, this,

Jamie:

like I think the coach kind of brainwashed him a little bit. Yeah. Again, that's the coach's idea. You see how nuts of stuff like this coach does.

Scott:

Well, okay. So but let's be charitable for a Sure. The charitable part is that, so you play tournaments. You know, I know teams that do tournament bags. They like to give kids things.

Scott:

You know, this idea of, like, making the kids giving them, like, a gift at some point in time just for being young little hockey players. That happens. And so maybe they were just really thinking like they wanted to be part of that.

Jamie:

Our kids didn't give a shit about how he's hockey taped. They didn't give a shit about that. Come on. But I gotta tell you, but it caused a problem for us because here, this dad's asking to be reimbursed, and Chris and I are like, no. Like, we need that money to pay for our skills guys.

Scott:

It's that money is it's already earmarked.

Jamie:

It's already earmarked. Right? So so again and then

Scott:

So did the coach reimburse them?

Jamie:

No. No. We told them. We said, sorry.

Scott:

Did everyone give their tape back?

Jamie:

I don't think so. Think

Scott:

Who kept

Jamie:

the tape? I think dad just ate it.

Scott:

He just ate it.

Jamie:

Because we told him, we're we're not we cannot give you money for this. Sorry. We're like, sorry. It's already earmarked. And then again, this guy's such a nice guy, but he was a little nuts.

Jamie:

And then we went up to Buffalo for a tournament. He rented a Range Rover to drive up to Buffalo. And then he tried to expense it. A Range Rover.

Scott:

That's weird. Isn't it? Isn't it, Even some pretty well funded corporate America

Jamie:

Doesn't want to pay for a Range Rover for a four day weekend.

Scott:

That's not normal. Right? Yeah, not normal.

Jamie:

And I got tell you, it all came back to us because they're going, what the fuck is your coach doing? It all came back

Scott:

to Oh, like the other parents

Jamie:

would No, management, upper management at the organization came to us and they're like, what is he doing? What is what is going on here?

Scott:

So no had like a sit down with this guy, like, dude, like so here, let's like rewind the tape for a And obviously we're talking about

Jamie:

It's crazy.

Scott:

Like the onboarding of a coach.

Jamie:

Yeah.

Scott:

And it sounds like

Jamie:

Again, nice guy. No. No. No.

Scott:

I know. But it sounds like the organization gave you guys a green light to hire who you wanted. And did the organization vet

Jamie:

this guy? They actually hired him.

Scott:

Oh, they hired him. No.

Jamie:

They hired him because we had no option.

Scott:

But then they're turning around to you and saying, what's up with this guy? Yeah. But they're the ones that hired him. Why aren't they It

Jamie:

doesn't matter.

Scott:

No. They want information. I get it.

Jamie:

Yeah. Of course. And listen and listen, he was doing unconventional things. Right? Wait.

Jamie:

Wait. Wait. They didn't find out about the, hey. We'll move our team to this rank and just pay me instead of the organization.

Scott:

They didn't behind their back.

Jamie:

They didn't hear about that. You know? And you the conference call we had with this guy, we knew that he was that he was a little off the

Scott:

line. But here's my question.

Jamie:

You know, we just kind of

Scott:

took that and This isn't an attack on you, attack's not even the right word, but like the hindsight's always twenty twenty and I wasn't there. But like in terms of as I said earlier, the communication piece and managing expectations, was there any thought to give this guy some a job description?

Jamie:

Oh, he knew his job description. Oh, no. No. He knew

Scott:

his job But he's but he's buying He

Jamie:

spoke to the organization.

Scott:

No. Okay. But, like, within the role of the team, like, I would pretty sure that, okay, job description is not maybe the right word. But, like, are there travel policies for coaches and employees and reimbursements and per diems and all the other things that go along with, like, that stuff. Listen.

Scott:

Listen. That's not for him to decide.

Jamie:

Listen. I'm sure that they had no problem reimbursing him for miles and a car rental. Right? But a $1,500 Range Rover

Scott:

Is bananas.

Jamie:

And when you turn that in, their organization and I remember the organization looked at him like, what the fuck is this? We're not paying for this. Like, they're like, who who like, what are you doing?

Scott:

It's weird

Jamie:

thing. I remember I heard about it, was like, no.

Scott:

He's not No. It can't be.

Jamie:

He's not really gonna do it. And then he pulls up to Downtown Buffalo in a fucking range like a red Range Rover. I was like, what?

Scott:

Interesting. Okay. So so so clearly making some like questionable calls, but so far, like what we're talking about has been more like on the the management side of the team, less so

Jamie:

We insulated the parents from it. Parents didn't know about the majority of this stuff. They knew about the Range Rover because they saw

Scott:

it.

Jamie:

Matter of fact, I remember when we went to one of the games in Buffalo, he's like, yeah, guys, jump in the car. So he took like four or five kids in the Range Rover over to the rink. So they knew about the Range Rover.

Scott:

So I'm trying to put myself in those shoes and you get burned once. Hopefully, you learn from your mistake. But with the actual product on the ice, did that

Jamie:

work out? The product on the ice worked. Yeah, our team, we finished in the country, came out of nowhere. That was cool. You get good hockey coach.

Jamie:

Good hockey coach, the guy can play the game, good with the kids, good hockey coach, just everything else is not there.

Scott:

So here's a question. From a management perspective, are the things that went sideways or were unexpected or unconventional, are those not things that could be easily addressed in just some, like, standard operating procedures going into, like, a following season? Or is it more of, like, a personality thing where it was, like, just wouldn't get it either way?

Jamie:

So the following season, the upper management of the organization came to him they came to us and they said, he is we could no longer have him as the head coach.

Scott:

Oh, so they made a decision. It wasn't the right fit.

Jamie:

Yeah. And they also wanted to hire full time hockey guys. They don't like, again, we've talked about this a little bit before. They didn't want somebody who was like a doctor who came to practice. They hired full time hockey guys.

Jamie:

Guys are that's all they do is work for the organization, and that's all they get paid for. So they were moving in that direction. And they wanted him to be the assistant coach, to step down to be the assistant coach and kind of learn from a real head coach.

Scott:

And he didn't want any part it.

Jamie:

His pride was hurt too much.

Scott:

Interesting. Yeah. Okay. But things I mean, fast forward to now, things have worked out Okay for that team.

Jamie:

For the team, yes.

Scott:

Yeah. Well, once that other once the once

Jamie:

we got done with the season and this the real coach came in and which we we always knew was gonna happen. It's just we were so up up against the wall for that year because we put it together so late. We didn't have a choice. We had to go with what we had.

Scott:

Yeah, that makes sense.

Jamie:

And it worked. Listen, it didn't work. The product on the ice was great. And we always knew that once a real coach came in, we would hand it off and be like, now all yours.

Scott:

So if if we rewind the tape a little bit, Okay, so what would you have done differently in retrospect? That obviously, I'm not saying that would have like eliminated, but like maybe mitigated some of that stuff. Because at the end of the day, right, we're talking about, you know, families that are now on some are on new teams Yeah. Or still dealing with a coach that maybe rubs them the wrong way or whatever the deal is. So let's talk about some solutions to that problem where how can parents parents that are strictly parents or parents that are also managers or involved how do you best navigate that?

Jamie:

So what would I have done differently? Honestly, I don't know because you can't argue. I don't think you could come back crazy.

Scott:

You can't argue with crazy. So this sounds like it's a bit of a unique situation. It is a unique situation. But it

Jamie:

made for some very good stories.

Scott:

I will

Jamie:

say that.

Scott:

I'm sure. Okay, so let's just say that, okay, let's say, okay, you can't argue with crazy copy, but let's just say this person is not

Jamie:

I mean, I guess

Scott:

A little bit more rational. Like what would you have done differently?

Jamie:

You know, I don't know because it worked. Product on the ice worked. It No.

Scott:

No. No. I understand.

Jamie:

And the parents didn't think that there was a lot wrong.

Scott:

You know,

Jamie:

the parents that were not in the know behind the scenes, they didn't really know that crazy was happening.

Scott:

Yep.

Jamie:

They may have heard a little bit of rumblings from us in passing when we were at the bar having too many drinks. Maybe something slipped out. But but I don't think I think we we insulated it pretty pretty well. Right. I think we did.

Scott:

But so so then from but let's just say, like, let's let's

Jamie:

put this Like a hypothetical.

Scott:

Like a hypothetical where this coach, there's it's it's a little more well known amongst the parent base. There's What do you do? Like, there are red flags, warning signs, there's some smoke, and that probably means there's some fire.

Jamie:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Scott:

Parents talk to the manager is that

Jamie:

a stop I would think so.

Scott:

Talk to the would kind

Jamie:

of go up the food chain, right? And hopefully the manager, if there's still a problem, will then talk to the organization. And then the organization obviously says something to the head coach, right? And hopefully it stops.

Scott:

So the manager's not talking to the head coach?

Jamie:

No. No. I think the parent talks to the manager. The manager talks to the head coach. And if that's not working, the manager talks Oh, right.

Scott:

It's not working. Sorry.

Jamie:

Goes to like the hockey director. If I didn't say that, I apologize. I would think the order of like an army, just kind of keep going

Scott:

up The hierarchy, yeah.

Jamie:

Yeah, I would think so. Hopefully, lot of parents don't encounter this stuff. Or hopefully, the manager can insulate the parents from a lot of

Scott:

these issues. So let's imagine a conversation. Like, what does a productive conversation with a manager look like in terms of, like, I'm a parent and, like, my I think our coach is crazy. And James, you're the you're you're you're now you're now in the manager role and I'm a parent. Right?

Scott:

Like, what what is a productive way for me to approach you about this? Is it like, hey, Jamie. I have a fucking problem. Like, this guy's out of

Jamie:

the people do that. No. I understand come to you like that, and some people come to you a little softer. Is that useful? Listen, it starts a dialogue.

Scott:

And no doubt it starts a dialogue. But I guess what I'm trying to understand is that, like, just in terms of, like, a parent not respecting the fact that there's, like, you know There's

Jamie:

a chain.

Scott:

There's a chain. Like, Did you have any conversations that worked better for you or were more productive?

Jamie:

However somebody came to us, whether they were heated or whether they were kind of calm, it didn't matter. Because you could kind of diffuse a lot of that stuff as somebody who's kind of like a manager of the team. You just need to not deal with people, I think. And I don't think it's difficult. You were a coach.

Jamie:

I'm sure the manager came to you with things. Right? That's just pretty easy to diffuse, especially if you have a good relationship with the parents on your team, which we did. So listen, there's always somebody who's a problem, And unfortunately, if somebody's too much of a problem, then you have to go up the chain and maybe get that parent to leave mid season, right? If it's a real, real problem that you can't fix.

Jamie:

Right? But for the most part, people aren't that bad.

Scott:

Right. I agree.

Jamie:

Right? I agree. It's people are not problems are able to be solved. Right. There's, for the most part, always a solution.

Scott:

So then so

Jamie:

Even if have to deal with a with a with a shitty parent for the rest of the season.

Scott:

Right. You can acknowledge what it is and

Jamie:

just You don't have to be buddies with them. You just kind of stay out of their lane and you do your own thing.

Scott:

Right.

Jamie:

Right? I mean, listen, most of the time it's a one off and every other parent knows that person's nuts.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

Right? I mean, you tell me if you've encountered anything different.

Scott:

No. So from a coaching perspective, I remember I once had a parent pretty early on when we were trying to figure so one of the things that happened terms of dealing with parents is not many parents probably are going into your year squirrel mights, full ice mites we did. And now all of a sudden there's positions. And now the parent of the next Wayne Gretzky is now playing defense. Yeah.

Scott:

There's

Jamie:

a lot of those, aren't they? What is My kid needs to be on offense.

Scott:

My kid.

Jamie:

Yeah. My kid my kid's

Scott:

not a defenseman.

Jamie:

Meanwhile, can I just tell you?

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

At those younger levels

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

The defensemen get so much ice time.

Scott:

They get a ton of ice time. And that's a that's a real selling point. And in

Jamie:

fact My god. Yes. If

Scott:

a team goes to six defensemen or five defensemen, like, early, then parents are like, dude, what what the

Jamie:

Yeah. They want the ice time.

Scott:

The ice time.

Jamie:

Listen. Our our our the team we're talking about, our year when we had that crazy coach, we had four defensemen.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

It was awesome. We had four defensemen and seven forwards.

Scott:

Seven.

Jamie:

We were so lean and won a goalie. Super lean. Were so

Scott:

intentional, was it? That was circumstantial?

Jamie:

Well, listen, we put it together late, and that's what we had. But I gotta tell you, we were playing like Iron Man hockey, and it was awesome.

Scott:

Yeah, that must've been great.

Jamie:

We did very well.

Scott:

But I think, so I had a I had a parent come to me when we were trying to figure things out and be like, hey, listen. My kid's not exactly getting as much playtime as everybody else. And they actually went to Live Barn and broke down every shift. And they like recorded their shifts. And they added up the total number of minutes that their kid played.

Scott:

At the time Do you remember the number? No, I don't remember the number.

Jamie:

Okay.

Scott:

But I'm sure it was plenty. I would

Jamie:

think so.

Scott:

Was probably than others?

Jamie:

Like fifteen, eighteen minutes ish that type of stuff?

Scott:

Yeah. So we definitely made a decision that we wanted to win, that we had

Jamie:

Right, that was what you guys wanted.

Scott:

We had a solid team. You

Jamie:

were playing to win?

Scott:

Not at all costs.

Jamie:

No, no, I would say You shortened the bench at crunch Given

Scott:

the talent that we shortened the bench at crunch time to an extent, like we did often put certain kids out

Jamie:

of power Yeah, on special teams.

Scott:

Again, this wasn't every single moment, but we didn't have the policy of always rolling lines no matter what. Nor did we have the policy that every kid was going to get a certain amount of time playing defense.

Jamie:

Okay.

Scott:

For the most part, if we were playing defense from like once we made that decision, yeah, there are gonna be some games where you'll get some shifts at forward, but this is where you're going to spend this season. Right. In retrospect, would I have done something differently? Maybe. But it's something that we had decided to do and we

Jamie:

had So as we plan.

Scott:

Listen, as a team, we had good success. Yeah. Right. No, you guys did.

Jamie:

Guys had a good year.

Scott:

Continue to go on to do good success, but have good success. But I certainly had some like sniper parents that were just like, my kid's not getting as much playing time.

Jamie:

Yeah.

Scott:

Hey

Jamie:

There's always gonna be

Scott:

that. And I and I will say that I I agree. You come to me anyhow you want. It's gonna be a conversation starter. I I will say that for a parent that's coming to a coach out of frustration, anger, like that's kind of like what's going on for you.

Scott:

Like, give it some more time before you talk because if you convey that to, at least to me, that like you're hot right now and this is the time I'm hearing about it. That's a red flag for me that you're going to be a high maintenance or a potential part time job. I'm to be really cautious about that.

Jamie:

Yes. Generally, you don't want to

Scott:

go to a coach or

Jamie:

a manager all bent out of shape.

Scott:

No, not on the time.

Jamie:

Because I got to tell you, and we've talked about this on this podcast before, the reputations start very quickly.

Scott:

Yeah. And from a coach's perspective, when have parents and I don't I had I'm jumping around a little bit. What I'm really trying to think about is if I ever you know, sad a kid because of a parent's behavior And the answer's no. I don't think so. I know that those types of conversations had come up.

Scott:

Yeah. You know, like if you keep this up, like, you know, your kids It's gonna be a problem. Your kids are gonna see less playing time. Yeah. This can't keep on happening.

Scott:

Like that definitely came up. But I think for the the other thing that was very difficult and as far as like parents of younger children is the the off the ice out of ring coaching. That when your kid's on the bench and being asked to do something by the coach, I would say like, hey Bobby, if the puck is in that corner, do this. And then Bobby would always do that. And I would be like, hey Bobby, what's going on?

Jamie:

What, why are you

Scott:

doing that? Well, my dad.

Jamie:

And I'm like,

Scott:

well I can tell you with complete certainty that your dad is not the coach of this team and you have a choice. You can either listen to your dad and not play or you can listen to the coaches because we're trying to do something that maybe your dad understand or isn't aware of. No, didn't say that last part

Jamie:

to No,

Scott:

but of course. But like that's what's going on. Yes. I think that's also, you know, at the end of the day, if nothing else, it just creates more work for a coach. It something else for a coach to navigate that may not even be necessary at all.

Scott:

And especially if you're gonna come hot and heavy in the beginning, then it's like, for sure, that's going back to assistant coach, going to a manager. There's like a thing about it like

Jamie:

Yeah.

Scott:

It's I think it's really important for any parents that are dealing with coaches, managers that are, you know, ultimately upsetting you Yeah. Like it's important to approach these situations Yeah. At least initially Yeah. With as much calm and professionalism as possible.

Jamie:

Well, listen, you won't get labeled as crazy. But

Scott:

that's important.

Jamie:

But that's the question about it's important because they're not gonna wanna help you if you're problem. They're they're not gonna wanna help you when you have, like, a real problem. Yeah. Like, your kid's playing time is not a real problem. In the in the In the grand scheme of things.

Scott:

But there are but listen. There probably are some situations where that's a problem. In in this the one that I'm talking about Yes. That was that was ultimately not the issue.

Jamie:

Listen. We're talking about shitty coaches. There's a where a kid a coach stuff like a kid and will not play him.

Scott:

That

Jamie:

I have not seen that yet. I'm sure it has happened. I'm sure it happens on on on on teams all the time. That is a real problem.

Scott:

And if a coach is gonna be in that and that's if there's a coach that has that reputation or you're getting into or trying out for a team, get on a team where you know Right. That the bench does get short and and that your kid aware enough and you know where your kid fits in that lineup Right. If you're concerned that about your kid's playing time, like, maybe that's not the right place to

Jamie:

be That's right. Maybe you should look for another home.

Scott:

Has not Not

Jamie:

try out that.

Scott:

That extra a or, you know, it's the

Jamie:

You're not wrong. You're not wrong. Listen, you're definitely not wrong. I will say one thing. Managers for the most part do a pretty good job of insulating the other parents from the crap that goes on behind the scenes.

Jamie:

I will say that. Managers take a lot of the coaching crap, the manager coach relationship and they don't let it filter down to the player parents for the most part. That I will say. Like this year I heard nothing

Scott:

About what was happening.

Jamie:

About anything. And there were a couple of things that went on that I found out after the season that I never even knew about. That That were like like rumblings, shitty parents, you know, shitty kids. But don't

Scott:

you fuck? Yeah. But that's not But

Jamie:

I I never found out

Scott:

about it. But that's not necessarily something so that's not necessarily something that's coach specific.

Jamie:

No. No. It's just the upper management ish type stuff. But don't

Scott:

you find that, like, there's all these always, sorry, cut you off.

Jamie:

No. No.

Scott:

Like there's like clicks amongst parents and then like like if it's involving a parent or a player, it's usually not too long before Yeah. Other people know or am I mistaken?

Jamie:

You know, listen, made friends with people this year, but I stayed very out of politics, like team politics.

Scott:

So what does that look like? Like, the conversation comes up, you change it, you like, You say very

Jamie:

diplomatic, neutral things if I would like Irish goodbye or just kind of

Scott:

Where'd Janie go?

Jamie:

Exactly. They see me the next morning, where'd you go? I'm like, I went to bed. That stuff normally comes out around drinks in the hotels and bars, stuff like that. I didn't get Maude Ann stuff this year.

Jamie:

I really didn't. Again, there was a lot of stuff that happened during the season that I had no clue about.

Scott:

But let me ask you a question.

Jamie:

But there were some problem parents behind the scenes that I had no clue about.

Scott:

Yeah. But do you because Dominik was the the top player on the team, my question for you is somewhat twofold. Number one

Jamie:

I was like, in a

Scott:

silly way admit some like level of arrogance where like you just didn't give a shit about like what else was happening? And I don't mean that like as like a

Jamie:

I'm trying to think if there was a I don't think so.

Scott:

But what what was the

Jamie:

other part?

Scott:

No. And the the other part was because, you know, Dom was one of the top players, do you think people intentionally left you out of things so you didn't get a bad vibe? Like, you think that Wow.

Jamie:

I don't I don't know the answer to that. That's a good question. If they did, they did a good job. If they left me out of it, like, on purpose Yeah. Then they did a good job.

Jamie:

I don't believe so. Because I was friends with other people on the team. I would have heard about it through through the grapevine. Yeah. You know, like like, just in in passing.

Jamie:

Like, I I didn't hear about any of that. Honestly, to be again, we had a really good group of parents, a really good group of kids for the most part. Yeah. There was one mom that was complaining about playing time that I found out after the season. And there were a couple of knuckleheads at the beginning of the season, but it took care of itself quickly

Scott:

It did. From what

Jamie:

I understand. So this past season, to be totally honest with you, was the easiest youth hockey season I've ever experienced because I was not involved in any day to day things, which was wonderful. Yeah. There was no issues. The only issue with my kid was those two kids that gave him a little bit of a problem because he wasn't producing Chirping.

Jamie:

Early the couple games, but that changed itself very quickly. And then they quieted down. So honestly, was one of the easiest youth hockey seasons. I didn't have a crazy coach to deal with.

Scott:

No crazy coach, no crazy travel.

Jamie:

No, let's get sponsored by Howie's hockey, or everybody pay me, and my wife will be the treasurer, and I'll disperse the money, and I'll get the ring time, and I'll get the practice schedule, like what? Right. Like, none of those headachy things.

Scott:

You could could you imagine what it would have been like if you actually had control of the money? Dude. Because without it, he's still got a Range Rover I'm telling you. And how he's taken for the team.

Jamie:

It would have been a fucking shit show, Scott. It was a fucking shit show regardless when he had no control over anything. But again, a nice guy, just nuts, but he made for phenomenal stories. But the crazy part about it is he's bounced around

Scott:

now Interesting.

Jamie:

To a bunch of different organizations since then, like one per year.

Scott:

Yeah. There's Shows you something. That's telling, that signals A little bit of

Jamie:

a pattern.

Scott:

That signals something.

Jamie:

Yeah, a

Scott:

little bit of

Jamie:

pattern. And I guess one of the morals of this whole thing is make sure you do your due diligence about the coach. We unfortunately had no time.

Scott:

No time

Jamie:

and effort. We were stuck.

Scott:

Yeah, and I think the part about the

Jamie:

We were really stuck between a rock and a

Scott:

rock place. About doing diligence with the coach is you don't always have the luxury Yeah. Of of having choices. And sometimes you are you're in a situation that if you had a choice, maybe you wouldn't be in otherwise. And so if you are in a situation that's not favorable, either by circumstance or always by circumstance, but either by choice or you didn't have options, I think, again, was just important to be a good communicator.

Scott:

And that means probably with appropriate frequency and appropriate tone just to make sure that you're heard and you're not labeled something and you're not taken seriously or avoid Don't get

Jamie:

Yeah. Yeah. Don't get a reputation. No, I agree. Yeah.

Jamie:

Yeah. So that's hopefully none of our listeners ever have ever have a crazy coach. I really

Scott:

hope all of you avoid it. There's I'm sure.

Jamie:

It's bound to happen, but I'm hoping you don't have one that's as crazy as the one that we had.

Scott:

Listen, there's some other yeah, I'm sure in future episodes we'll talk about other things that coaches have been complicit with.

Jamie:

No question about it. Yes. But so, all right, so we'll wrap up with a little bit of NHL, NHL Stanley Cup finals.

Scott:

Yeah, sure. Can wrap it up with that. I mean, oh my goodness. Yeah. I mean Last night was manners.

Jamie:

Did you expect last night at all?

Scott:

No. And it was so disappointing to see because it just, you know, like it definitely me, I saw him wanting the Oilers to win this one. I felt very deflated watching it. It just seemed like Florida was just so much better.

Jamie:

It's interesting. I have a couple of different thoughts, and I'm curious to hear what you say. So I thought that goaltending was going to be a very big difference in this series. And last night, that showed itself big time. Although Skinner has been very solid last night.

Jamie:

The Martian goal, I don't know what happened there. He kind of belly flopped. It was a strange goal.

Scott:

Yeah. I didn't see it. I was listening

Jamie:

to the period.

Scott:

Yeah. Don't know.

Jamie:

Right. That's right. You were on your way home from the airport. You go back and look, it's a strange goal. I'm not sure what Skinner was doing.

Jamie:

You know, and it's funny. Through the two games, I kept saying to my wife, like, I don't know if you saw, like, Eckblad, like, took a stupid pallyware, like, pulled somebody

Scott:

down from behind. He was on fire last night. Him and Walden, cold.

Jamie:

No question about it. But, like, through the two games, the two games in Edmonton, the Panthers kept taking stupid penalties. And I remember they were taking penalties when they were on a power play. So it kind of negates the power play. And I kept saying like, what are they doing?

Jamie:

Because every time they take a penalty, in my opinion, the Edmonton power play is frightening.

Scott:

Yes.

Jamie:

It's frightening. Like you cannot let those dudes on the ice five on four or five on three, you can't do it.

Scott:

I don't think it's been frightening this series.

Jamie:

No. The two games, I think it was frightening. I mean, listen, the overtime winner that they won game one was a power play.

Scott:

Yeah. No doubt.

Jamie:

Right? I mean, so so I kept saying stop taking penalties. Like, you've got to stop taking stupid Listen, I know they're trying to get under Edmonton's skin. Like, I get all that stuff.

Scott:

That's the way they play. That's like DNA.

Jamie:

And I 100% get it. Ka chuck in the crease, you know, like Marshand busting balls. But last night

Scott:

He gave McDavid a good pop. Last night was Game two.

Jamie:

Right? Yes, he did. Last night was different. It started off where I got frustrated because they went up like two nothing and I'm like, Okay, here we go. And then they get a penalty and they score on a power play.

Jamie:

Corey Perry scores on the power play. And I'm going I look at my wife and I'm like, God, stop taking stupid penalties. But then something changed and the Panthers started putting the puck in the net again, and they were still agitating, but they weren't taking bad penalties. So then all of a sudden, the crosscheck started coming from Edmonton. The slashes started coming from Edmonton.

Jamie:

Nurse, Bouchard. You see him look

Scott:

to the sky after he complete and I was like, what are you looking at the sky for? You're coming to

Jamie:

cross check to the lower Are you crazy? Like, I mean Like, of course,

Scott:

that's a penalty.

Jamie:

I I mean but the the how many cross checks and slashes did you see from Edmonton? Yeah. I didn't see them from the Panthers. Either that or the Panthers are really good at concealing them.

Scott:

Right.

Jamie:

I mean, if you look at last night's game, the Panthers took them totally out of their game. And what's crazy about it is when you go when you go down a man, when their pal when Edmonton's penalty kill is on the ice, McDavid and Drysettle are on the bench.

Scott:

McDavid has been doing a lot of penalty killing this series.

Jamie:

Yes. For the most

Scott:

part specifically.

Jamie:

Yes. But for the most part, they're on the bench.

Scott:

For the most but don't McDavid, he's been on the ice

Jamie:

Was he doing a lot of PK last power play kill last night?

Scott:

I don't remember about last night, but I know that certainly between games one and two, he was out there a bunch.

Jamie:

Because last night, they almost disappeared. Because again, they were short they in the box a lot.

Scott:

Yeah. Special teams messes up. Edmonton was in the

Jamie:

box a truckload. When Edmonton is on a power play, they're an entirely different animal.

Scott:

And four on four too, I'd argue.

Jamie:

A 100%. I'm glad you said that.

Scott:

You're going four on four. Because I

Jamie:

was saying

Scott:

that to Nancy too. I'm like, you

Jamie:

don't wanna be five on four or four on four against them.

Scott:

Right.

Jamie:

You're a hunt because there's too much ice.

Scott:

Too much ice.

Jamie:

Four on four. Right? Because dry side on McDavid, they're I mean, they're just frightening. You saw the the goal in game two. Well, the the the it wasn't me.

Jamie:

It was the assist to dry side.

Scott:

So that toe drag?

Jamie:

But that toe drag?

Scott:

Yeah, the head fake into toe drag into

Jamie:

That ridiculous. Ridiculous. And that was on a power play, I'm pretty sure. You know? So again, so last night, something changed last night where Edmonton I thought Florida was taking stupid penalties in the two games.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

Now I think Edmonton was taking really bad penalties in that

Scott:

last night. It became a circus. I wanted to turn it off. Had four minutes left, and Otto's like, I'm sitting there watching with him, and he's like, no. We're not going upstairs.

Scott:

We're gonna keep he's like, there's gonna be another fight.

Jamie:

Am I wrong? Were they not so undisciplined in

Scott:

the game? Undisciplined.

Jamie:

I mean, that's not how they play.

Scott:

It was like they jump off they jumped off the deep end.

Jamie:

I'm so curious what their head coach said. Did you see how many people they had on the bench at the end of the game? They had, like, seven guys on the bench.

Scott:

Not many. No. And then on top and then on top of the commentators were saying because they had McDavid and Drysettle out there. Right. And clearly, the Oilers had targeted a bunch of

Jamie:

the Florida players. They weren't playing them.

Scott:

No. They were playing them.

Jamie:

Were

Scott:

they? But listen, don't

Jamie:

They were playing David and Drysdale in

Scott:

the last five I them. One of the broadcasters made a comment being like, what are they doing out there?

Jamie:

Saying they should be on

Scott:

their bench. On their bench.

Jamie:

Because they're gonna get hurt. Yeah.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

Yeah. Well, so it's funny you said that. I expected Ka'Chuck to go after somebody like that. Yeah. Expected him or somebody to go after

Scott:

Someone let up on dry settle, like had an opportunity to bury him.

Jamie:

But he pulled back?

Scott:

He pulled back, which one of the commentators also thought was surprising. But look, this is where I don't think I don't McDavid. It's not McDavid, it's the Oilers. But I don't think the Oilers It's the McDavid's. I don't the Oilers have it in their toolbox to get Florida into as bad of a place as Florida can get Edmonton.

Jamie:

I don't think so either.

Scott:

I I

Jamie:

think they have so much more discipline. They're they're agitators, but they stop at a certain point.

Scott:

Yeah. I I yeah.

Jamie:

Mean, did you see how they didn't retaliate last night? Guys like Bennett were getting slashed.

Scott:

Bennett was getting crushed. And

Jamie:

wasn't retaliating.

Scott:

Wasn't retaliating. I mean That guy is unreal. Like, Sam

Jamie:

Bennett is unreal. Came down. He he hit Two players. Somebody somebody else And

Scott:

then went

Jamie:

back on the rush.

Scott:

Yo. Between listen. Between him, Marshawn, and Corey Perry, like, they are the talk for at least for me of this series so far. Like, holy guacamole.

Jamie:

I mean, Brad Marshawn is has been so good. I mean, if they if they don't he's a free agent at end of the

Scott:

Yeah. They're they're they're gonna have to how can

Jamie:

you not that team?

Scott:

If you're him, you also don't wanna leave, especially if you win a cup.

Jamie:

I wouldn't. No. Because in what I would I would think he would move up a line. He's on that line right now.

Scott:

Not necessarily. I I

Jamie:

he I'm pretty sure he's on the line. No? He is. Right. I would I would maybe they leave him on the line, but I would think he would get listen.

Jamie:

He's been he's so effective.

Scott:

So effective.

Jamie:

He's such a good hockey player.

Scott:

On so many levels.

Jamie:

Just has a nose for the game. Yeah. I mean, yeah, he's he's phenomenal. I'm I'm really looking forward to is the next game tomorrow night?

Scott:

Tomorrow night. Thursday. Wait. Oh, tomorrow's Wednesday. No.

Scott:

Two nights.

Jamie:

Oh, it's Thursday night.

Scott:

Maybe I'm mistake am I mistaken?

Jamie:

No. No. I think you're right. I think it is Thursday.

Scott:

There's definitely two days between either games three and No. No. No. Because they're still in Florida.

Jamie:

Right. But are they doing two games in between two home games like this? Like, I would though I would think that the next game's tomorrow, but maybe it's not.

Scott:

No. I could have been mistaken. I I don't off top

Jamie:

of head. I'm not sure.

Scott:

Either way, the the next game is in Florida.

Jamie:

Yeah.

Scott:

There there might be an extra day between

Jamie:

Between travel. It's one of the longest travels in Utah in youth hockey, in the NHL.

Scott:

Yeah. You know? So listen. A lot of lot

Jamie:

miles. Looking forward I'm looking forward to this game. I think Florida's taking this thing, by the Yo. I said I said Florida in seven. It may be Florida in six now.

Scott:

Yeah. But people said that last season when they were up three nothing.

Jamie:

Okay. Fair.

Scott:

And it went to

Jamie:

Who start who starts in goal for Edmonton? Next game.

Scott:

Pickard.

Jamie:

I think so too. I agree.

Scott:

I I think you agree with Pickard.

Jamie:

I think so too. I I don't think you put Skinner back in the game.

Scott:

Which is

Jamie:

Unless Pickard gets smoked.

Scott:

Yeah. Yeah. But I think you're right. I think Pickard's in.

Jamie:

I agree. I totally agree.

Scott:

I think Pickard's in.

Jamie:

Yeah. Yeah.

Scott:

Okay. Anyway, all right. That was a good one, buddy.

Jamie:

It's really good to see you. That awesome. Appreciate it. Yep. Everybody, thanks for listening.

Jamie:

Go to our socials. Go to our YouTube channel, crazyhockey. That's one word. And we will catch you guys on the next episode. On the next one.