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Are you a business owner? Or are you on the verge of taking that side hustle to the next level? Or curious about the world of entrepreneurship? Join Vivian Kvam, Co-Owner of Tandem Works, each week for a behind-the-scenes at small businesses and what it takes to succeed.
Each episode is full of inspiration, education, tips, and great conversation with people like you, people who are figuring it out. Take your business to the next level with insight from expert guests in business, leadership, and marketing.
Vivian Kvam (00:01)
Hello friends, welcome to this episode of Writing Tandem. I'm your host, Vivian Cavan and as always, this podcast is here for you to encourage the business owner, those who are in leadership and those looking to have good connections in their community and to build each other up. As you probably know, if you've been hanging around this podcast for a little bit, I truly believe that as business owners, we have the ability to shape our own lives, the lives of the people that we touch directly through our business.
and the lives of all of the people in our community. So welcome. I'm so excited to have you here today on the podcast. And I'm also excited to introduce you to today's guest, Lisa Even. And Lisa Even has been a friend of mine for a number of years. I got to meet her through a really fun encounter during COVID, of course, virtually of all things. And I've gone to some of her events and got to know her really well.
Lisa even is a speaker, a coach, an author, a podcaster, and a joy connoisseur. She describes herself as a culture junkie who turned entrepreneur. And two fun facts about her, she's on a mission to connect with 1 million people. Yes, I said 1 million, as in 1 million people. And she's the type of person who I think could probably pull that off, if that's mathematically even possible.
And one of the fun things about her is she has a monthly joy calendar, which we're going to talk about more in today's episode. And I think this is such an important episode for those of you out there to tune into who maybe find yourself in a leadership position where you're just feeling run down or maybe you're a business owner and you just feel like getting moments of joy into your day feels like an impossible feat that you're chasing a to -do list or as Lisa.
describes it like you're the Pac -Man who's just chasing down all of the things with all these ghosts running after you and you're just leveling up and doing it all over again. If that's you, I know you're going to love this episode. We talked today with Lisa about how to implement joy in our lives without adding more but while still discovering more opportunities to just truly have joyful moments that bring meaning and also bring health to our lives. So this is an important episode.
Also, we're going to be talking about, ta -da, her book. Lisa is an author and she authored the book Joy Is My Job, which you can find copies of on Amazon. We're gonna talk about her book, The Framework for Making Joy Your Job, which I think is so important as business owners and as leaders. You've gotta be making joy your job. So we'll be talking about that as well as bonus, if you're thinking, I might like to author a book someday, but I'm not exactly sure what that looks like and how to go about
it.
Lisa also imparts some of her tips and her process for how she realized and had her book published, which is now available on Amazon. Okay, let's dive into the conversation.
Vivian Kvam (00:01)
Alright, perfect. Well, hello, Lisa. Good morning. Excited to have you here. I love that we were both just talking before we hopped on here that we may have some sound interruptions and we're just gonna roll with it today on both ends. Yes. So Lisa, I did think it would probably be good because we've known each other for a little while now and so I wanna be sure to give a little context of how we met. But then, of course, wanna talk about your book, which is exciting.
Lisa (00:03)
Hi, good morning. Thank you.
Amen. On both ends.
I'm going to go to bed.
Vivian Kvam (00:30)
Um, but we actually met, I was actually, I was going backwards. I was like, okay, wait, was it this? And I was like, no, we actually met during COVID online because I heard you speak as like part of a breakout session. And I don't even remember the exact event, but that it was online and I loved you talking and I had like a million questions to ask you and I'm like putting them in the chat, putting them in the chat and no one else was asking questions. I was like, what is going on? And then we had a great conversation afterwards. Um,
Lisa (00:57)
Yeah.
Vivian Kvam (01:00)
And then I've come to some of your Rising Tide events, and it's just been super fun to get to know you. So, yeah. And I almost forgot to say too, so fun that we actually, Makayla and I, got to help you have a Rising Tide event here in our own community in Council Bluffs. So.
Lisa (01:05)
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah, gosh, it's the time has just flown, hasn't it? When I think back to all the different events, I mean, that's like three, four years ago where it all started.
Vivian Kvam (01:22)
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that struck me about you was coming to your Rising Tide event. And I remember thinking, I have no idea really what this event is, but it sounds fun and I liked Lisa, so I'm going to go, which is saying a lot because I'm an introvert. And I think Michaela even was a little bit like, you wanna go where to do what? Like you are an introverted person, so if you wanna go, I guess we're going.
Lisa (01:40)
Yeah.
Yes.
Vivian Kvam (01:55)
But what struck me is you talked a lot about joy being your job, and I loved it. And so I wanna talk a little bit about that. I'd love to talk about just your whole framework about how joy is your job, and I'd love to talk a little bit too about how you realized your book, because I know listeners are super interested in both aspects of how do I have more joy in my life? But then also there's that curiosity piece of like, how did you...
Lisa (02:17)
Ha ha.
Vivian Kvam (02:22)
realize a book because I know a lot of people have thought, oh, I never could or I'd like to and you've actually done it so I'd love to talk about that aspect too. Okay, awesome. So joy is your job. Where did this whole concept come from?
Lisa (02:30)
Sounds great, let's do it.
Yeah, well, I always laugh because I wish it came from something where I was really excited and like, oh, I feel so rested. I should just have more joy. And it really didn't. My husband and I, like seven or eight years ago, I feel like most people, we were over scheduled like kids and jobs, careers, the housework. And literally it was almost like we'd come home every night, just be like, oh, okay. And then like rinse and repeat, we would do the same thing over and over. And finally I would look at him and I was like, you know?
Vivian Kvam (03:03)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (03:07)
I feel like we chase a lot of things, like our kids and the housework and all those things, and then we even put it on our calendar, like work meetings and doctor's appointments and all these things. I was like, what if we could chase something else? Like we could be the designers of our lives essentially, look at our calendar and say, well, maybe we could put like some joy here and here and here. And my husband was like, okay, how do we do it? And I'm like, I don't know, but give me a few days.
Vivian Kvam (03:33)
Hehehehe
Lisa (03:37)
I brought a whiteboard home and I was like, can you just hang this in our bedroom like right here? He's like, Lisa, people don't have whiteboards in their bedroom. And I was like, well, we do. Like we do. And he's like, okay. So we hung it up. He was a good sport. But I really, the idea was I wanted to come up with a list of all of the things that we either used to do, like to do, want to do. And that would become kind of like the catalyst of
Vivian Kvam (03:48)
Hehehehe
Lisa (04:05)
looking at our calendar and being like, well, we have an idea, so let's put it here. And it's the best thing that we could have ever done is taken our joy list and move it to our joy calendar. And I tell people, we track it. So every month we sit down and we look at our calendar and we say, okay, if joy is our job, because we're not waiting for it to find us, where do we put that? And it kind of spread to like friends and family. And yeah, it's kind of turned into a whole bunch of joy.
Vivian Kvam (04:09)
Hmm.
Yeah, well, in a book too, which is really exciting. It's turned into a whole book. So reading your book, having listened to you a couple times, talk about this concept, I've really enjoyed also reading the book because there's stories and things in there that I haven't got to hear yet, which is awesome. And one of the things I love about the book is that you do tell personal stories, but then you have really clear frameworks, which someone like me enjoys, where I'm like, oh, I love the storytelling piece, but then you give this clear framework.
Lisa (04:36)
In a book!
Yeah.
that.
Vivian Kvam (05:03)
and like a step by step on how you can practically start doing these things. You don't have to necessarily go buy a whiteboard and put it into your room. But it is something you could do, right? It's something you could think about. But one of the things I resonated with, I have my sticky notes here so I want to make sure, is that, okay, burnout, right? Basically you were talking about the burnout piece. And I wrote this down so that I would remember. But you had in the book that 50 piece.
Lisa (05:13)
Exactly.
Yeah.
Vivian Kvam (05:32)
53% of women say they are more stressed than last year. And I was just thinking about that and especially knowing as business owners, that I think is like, I looked and I said, okay, I wonder if it's like 98% of women business owners, right? Feel burnt out. That's right. And I really resonated with, you'll have, like listeners have to check the book out.
Lisa (05:51)
Yeah, your first night comes up.
Vivian Kvam (06:00)
but your Pac-Man analogy. Can you walk through that a little bit? Just that whole idea of like the to-do list and chomping away at it.
Lisa (06:01)
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah, I feel like oftentimes that's what it feels like. We're just kind of that chasing feeling. That's like when I think about, you know, constantly going after different things and being chased by all of the things that we have going on. And so for me, when I think about kind of this idea of shifting to joy, it's like, not only are you going to chase something different, but I feel like when you start to chase it, like even the things that are chasing you feel a little bit different.
I always say like I grew up in healthcare. That's where I spent most of my career prior to going out on my own. And one of the areas I worked in was neurosciences. So I just kind of have a fascination with like the brain and I think about the amount of cortisol, right? The stress hormone that we release in our body. And I think about all the things we're chasing and all the things that are chasing us. And it's almost like, man, you better have some like.
Vivian Kvam (06:37)
Mm.
Lisa (07:03)
yummy chemicals in your body, or you're going to be kind of living this like cortisol stressed out life. And that's kind of what we were experiencing. And when you ask your friends and people around you, they're like, oh yeah, me too. So when I looked up the actual stat, I was like, I'm not surprised. And I feel like if we can say, okay, I want to reposition my life to include a little bit of joy, I'm actually doing myself a favor on all fronts, which
Vivian Kvam (07:21)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (07:31)
A lot of times people are like, oh, Joy is so cute. Like that's so sweet. And I'm like, actually it might like keep you on earth a few more years longer. Cause your body's gonna actually have some good chemicals versus the stress hormones that end up causing more problems.
Vivian Kvam (07:48)
Yeah, and I love that you talk about that because you're right, I do think people at face value go, well, that's adorable and sounds like a great idea, but I'm not, you know, joyful Lisa. And I love how you talk about like, were you always joyful? Do you feel like you always had that?
Lisa (07:56)
Yes.
Yeah, like, ahhh.
you know what's funny? I feel like I have always had a ton of energy, but I don't think that I always was, I don't think I always was joyful. I think I was just a ball of energy and I didn't really know where to put it. And so that kind of translated into me being excited and eager, but not necessarily intentional about creating good things and happy things and joyful things. So a lot of times when people are like, well, I'm an introvert or I'm not bubbly, I'm like,
your joy is going to be very unique to you. Like I would not expect you to find the things that I find joyful, because it's your journey. It's your, I would say like, if you could go anywhere on a cruise, where would you go? And there's probably going to be a million answers. And I'm like, exactly. It's going to be very unique to what you find enjoyable. And that's perfect. That's actually a good thing.
Vivian Kvam (09:08)
Yeah, it is. And that is something that I love, again, as you talk about through like there's a different brand almost of joy for different people and there isn't a get it right. Like you don't have to stress out about getting joy right. You can experiment and go, okay, I thought that was gonna be fun and it wasn't. Have you ever had things where you have thought, okay, this is gonna be fun, we're gonna try it and it didn't go how you planned?
Lisa (09:14)
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's a couple of moments. I think one of them I talk about in the book, we took our kids when they were a little bit smaller to a movie theater and we thought, they're gonna love this, this is gonna be so great. And then about halfway through, they're rolling around on the floor, throwing popcorn. And we're like, we are distracting to everyone in this theater, like we have got to go. And so we left and we got to the parking lot and my husband and I looked at each other and we're like, this was on our joy list. Like this was on the joy calendar.
and we don't get to count it as joy. And we were almost like stressing out about it. Well, meanwhile, like right next to us in this like grassy little area, are our two kids chasing each other around, laughing their heads off. And my husband's like, I think mission accomplished. And I was like, ah, you're so right. And even this past couple of weeks, we took our kiddos skiing for the first time. So now they're sixth grade and fourth grade.
Vivian Kvam (10:18)
Hmm.
Lisa (10:28)
And my son on the way there was like, I'm going to be so good at this. I'm going to love skiing. And then at the end of the day, we were driving home. He's like, mom, I don't think I ever pizza. And if you've ever been skiing, that's really when you put your skis like in a triangle formation to slow yourself down. And he had no ability to stop at, which caused some challenges when we moved from the bunny hill to a little bit bigger hill. And it was so funny because he's like, I don't know if that brought me joy, mom. Like, I'm not sure.
Vivian Kvam (10:33)
I'm going to go to bed.
Mm.
Lisa (10:58)
But it was cute because he was recognizing it. And also he's like, but I might try it one more time. So I could see him kind of wrestling through like, okay, was that joyful? Did I like it? Would I do it again? And I was like, yeah, absolutely. Like maybe skiing isn't for you. Maybe there's other things. Whereas my daughter, I laughed, she was like a little gazelle just skiing down the hill. Like she had done it forever. And I was like, huh, who would have thought?
Vivian Kvam (11:03)
Hmm
I'm gonna go.
So in your book you cover a great framework for joy and I love how you break it up too of like why do we even need this and then what gets in the way and how can we do it, right? And you even talk about like just creating a mindset first and walk people through the steps of that and then the barriers that get in the way. And I was wondering if you would just hit on a couple…
Lisa (11:51)
Yeah.
Vivian Kvam (11:54)
of those things from the book of like what the framework loosely looks like. And one of the things that definitely stood out to me is just the whole concept that joy is a choice.
Lisa (11:55)
I'm going to go to bed.
Yeah, it really is. And I think that's probably the hardest thing to swallow, literally, right? Is that when we thought about our life and having careers and jobs and kids, most of those responsibilities weren't going to go away, right? Like, and we weren't going to be able to say, well, let's wait until our kids are older. We just realized that
when our kids are older, then they're gonna be in sports. When our jobs, when we get the promotion, well then we have more responsibility, so now we're gonna have more work. Like we were just sitting there kind of looking on the horizon being like, I don't think that part's gonna be any different. So I think it's gotta be like this part that has to be a little bit different. And so we kind of said to ourself, what if it could be both? And that's where I talk a lot about the barriers of like, what if I'm really busy?
What if I'm really tired? And there's a kind of like that kind of push pull of, well, if you're really tired, let's focus on the waking hours that you're already awake anyway. If you're really busy, maybe we look for like smaller pieces of your day and we have to slide it in like almost like a smoothie where you hide like vegetables for your kiddos. We're gonna have to hide it in there somewhere where it almost feels like it's just part of it, but it's not in addition to.
Vivian Kvam (13:05)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Lisa (13:23)
And that's a lot of what I talk about in the first part is, do you believe you can have joy? Like, well, I'm so busy. I don't have time for joy. And I'm like, ooh, that has to change for the joy part to actually work. And then it's like, okay, now these are the things that I'm telling myself. How do I shift those or reposition it so that we can make it happen? And then that third order of business is truly like, I find people that are like, well, I don't even know what I like because I haven't thought about it in forever.
Vivian Kvam (13:51)
Hmm.
Lisa (13:53)
And so I give some ideas and then I also give some joy challenges, meaning, you know, I kind of jokingly say like, we do not have time. We are busy working moms or working people who, you know, there is no extra time on our calendar. So we are gonna give ourselves one hour in the next month. You're gonna look at your calendar and you're gonna say, where could one hour go? And I do this with like thousands of people in different workshops and keynotes.
And it's so funny because you can usually see someone be like, I don't have an hour. I don't, there's no hour. And I'm like, okay, 20 minutes. Like, where do you, like, where do you want to start? Start small. And maybe it's, you know, at lunchtime, you get up and you walk around the building and you're like, gosh, I feel a little bit better. And so I give some different fun, like challenges of things that you could be like, yeah, what would I do in one hour? If I was going to do, you know, a staycation for, from a Friday to a Saturday at my house.
Vivian Kvam (14:27)
Hmm.
Lisa (14:50)
Hmm, what would I do? So it's kind of just a fun way to almost battle the things that get in our way and then a really easy way to like line it up so that it's already part of your day to day.
Vivian Kvam (15:02)
Yeah, I love that. And you, you talked about a couple of times in there, just this concept of what if we could chase joy, like we chase everything else, right? And that really resonated with me as far as making that choice of I do choose to chase things and not necessarily bad things. And sometimes maybe they aren't, you know, necessary. I love you talked about how in a previous like work environment.
Lisa (15:12)
Yeah.
No.
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.
Vivian Kvam (15:30)
you had a project and you worked and worked all weekend on the project and then you're like, why didn't the other person work on the project? And they kind of like set you in place almost with a, hey, you know, I took the weekend to be with my family. And I think that can feel really difficult for a lot of people and especially for people who own businesses because they're like, if I'm not working, is a paycheck coming? And I don't… And so you're chasing…
Lisa (15:37)
Hahaha
Oh, yeah.
Vivian Kvam (16:00)
goals, you're chasing money coming in that you can send an invoice out, you're chasing the next client, you're chasing the next product, you're chasing the next… I sat down yesterday and was joking with a friend that I was still adding to-dos to Chase to my list at about 4.15 and I needed to leave at like 4.30. There was no way it was going to happen. I'm still like adding to-dos to my list. And how often do we not add…
Lisa (16:25)
Yeah.
Vivian Kvam (16:29)
The joy things to our list, like guilty, for sure guilty of that.
Lisa (16:31)
Yeah.
Absolutely, and I think as a business owner, sometimes it's like how you justify it. I think for me, one of the things that I have realized is when I put joy on my calendar, even if it's just in small bites, the thing I do after or like even the next day is a better product. I'm more creative, you know, the conversation or the email that I wrote to a client is more genuine because I can actually, think straight, because again, I don't have all those like stress hormones.
Vivian Kvam (16:51)
Hmm.
Lisa (17:03)
in my body just like making me be like, let's get this done. Let's get this done. And that's a hard switch to make, but it certainly feels and looks better in your business when you do it. But it's one of those things where it's like, fine, I'll trust it. Okay. And then once you see a little proof, you're like, oh, and then you can talk about it to your clients. Like, you know, just last week on my joy calendar, and it's like that little peek into the, into your world that sometimes clients are like,
Vivian Kvam (17:05)
Hehehe
Hmm.
Lisa (17:31)
Wow, that person's really authentic.
Vivian Kvam (17:35)
I was just thinking with that, I was like, ooh, that's an interesting idea. What a great social media posts, right? Where you can give people, one of the things we often coach people on is give people a glimpse into your business, into your lives when appropriate. And they're always like, well, what can I talk about? And like, well, what if you talked about how you've infused some joy into your work day, or you infused joy into something with your clients or with your team? Those would be fun ways to show your.
Lisa (17:41)
Yeah.
Vivian Kvam (18:04)
Like show the human side of your business, which is so important.
Lisa (18:08)
Absolutely. That's a great example. And I think people think that it's like, when you go to do it, you think, oh, no one's gonna care. But we live through stories. We like to know like, what's your story and where did you grow up and who are you? And so you're almost sharing a slice of your story. That's a little bit more of the human, like you said, the human element versus just, do you wanna buy my product? Do you wanna buy my service? They certainly wanna buy.
Vivian Kvam (18:18)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (18:35)
like the person behind it, especially in that small business world.
Vivian Kvam (18:39)
Absolutely do. When you were talking about the latter half of the book, you have a framework, and I wanted to look at it up here a little bit, where you talked about justification, I'm gonna botch here so you have to help me, justification, obstacles, and now you do it? Is that right?
Lisa (18:52)
Yeah.
That's right. So I, on each of the, like different chapters, I literally like what we're telling ourselves is really that justification. And then the obstacles is really like getting past the thing and giving yourself permission. And then I say, okay, your turn. And I give some ideas of things that either we do or, you know, places that you can think about. And now I hope that you write all over the book and you're like jotting your own ideas. Cause again, joy is unique to you.
Vivian Kvam (19:04)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (19:23)
But a lot of times I would say like, if we're gonna go out to dinner on a Friday night and I look at my husband and I say, hey, where do you wanna go? And he's like, I don't know, where do you wanna go? I don't know, where do you wanna go? It's like, we spend half the time trying to figure out what to do. And so if you can really get that list created so that it's like, ours is hung on the fridge. And we're like, hey, Friday night, we have a slice of time, our kids are off doing this. It's like, oh, you know what? We have not done this in a while.
Vivian Kvam (19:38)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (19:53)
or played this game in a while or been here in a while. So that's my goal is to really get you to that like, okay, now it's actionable. At Friday afternoon or Tuesday at 9 a.m. if you were to put some joy, what would you put? And then you can easily grab and go.
Vivian Kvam (20:02)
Hmm.
Lisa (20:11)
Vivian Kvam (20:11)
Yeah, it does take a little bit of planning. And again, that's something I really enjoy about you is how you help people realize what's possible through your own stories and experiences and sharing those with others. You give that framework of like why this is important. It is more than just skipping down the street, looking joyful. Like this has so much to do with your health and the health of your family and the health of your business or whatever it is that you're doing if you're in a leadership position, it's the health of your entire team.
Lisa (20:29)
Yeah.
Vivian Kvam (20:41)
which I'm always like everyone's in leadership, like a position of some kind. So being able to take care of yourself, it does have, which I know you love, that good ripple effect. Like it starts to pour over into so many different things so it's so important. But then those practical pieces of like, okay, but I need a game plan, right? And you have a joy calendar that you suggest like people can use. And you make a template available, is that right? Or some.
Lisa (20:50)
Yay!
Yeah.
We do.
Vivian Kvam (21:09)
Joy calendar ideas, right? Mm-hmm.
Lisa (21:10)
Yes, ideas and then a spot for creating a list. And you can actually grab that if you go to liseeven.com and then I'll get the link to the, I think it's like forward slash free joy and we can put that in the show notes for folks to grab. But yeah, the idea of it is that it shouldn't take a lot of time, but it does take a little bit of thought. And so, you know, for us it's once a month and we just kind of sit down sometimes.
Vivian Kvam (21:24)
Perfect.
Mm.
Lisa (21:39)
If you've got kids or even friends, we put a sheet of paper in front of our kiddos and we're like, hey, what do we wanna do for Joy in the next couple of months? Tired mom brain is like, I don't know. Excited kid brain is like, I wanna do, make donut balls and go to the arcade and I wanna make a snowman and they can come up with a thousand ideas. So sometimes it's like, hi, I need to enlist someone else to give me an idea. And then we just look at our calendar and see where we can put it.
And sometimes we just put a little spot on our calendar that says Joy TBD, because we want to save the time, but maybe we're not quite ready to, you know, we're like, oh, we should maybe check to see if that movie is playing or, you know, what have you. And we can always just placeholder it.
Vivian Kvam (22:25)
Yeah, that makes sense. And I mean, weather can play in and things like that. So if you have a couple different things to choose from, then you can kind of grab and go, which I love. Because when you're busy, and that was one of the big barriers, I think you put it as barrier number one, that people always say, I'm busy. How do you help people walk through that barrier? You have a couple different barriers. I don't have enough money. I have kids. I'm busy. I'm tired. But just to touch on that one a little bit more, I'm busy.
Lisa (22:38)
Yeah.
MAH-
I know, a busy is a hard one because I think it's the one that, I shouldn't say all of us, but most of us can relate to of like, yeah. And so sometimes I will say, use the time that you've already got in front of you. So I say, meal times are a great thing. You know, sometimes we'll do themed meals where, and they're not even that good, like they're not even that grand. But we're just thinking ahead to a lot of family's meal plan. So we'll be thinking like, could we do a Mexican night and maybe salad night and a Greek night?
Vivian Kvam (23:10)
I'm sorry.
Lisa (23:21)
and just thinking about, okay, we're already doing that. And then I often say, like, look at the befores and afters. So if you're driving your kids around or even in your work life, like if you've got a big project and it's like, okay, after this project, we're gonna have a coffee happy hour. And we're putting that on our calendar. It's like those little slices of like before, during and after that for me are like the money spots where it's like, okay, don't add more, just look.
differently at what you're already doing. And then one of my favorite analogies that I give a little bit later in the book is crappy to happy. And that really means look at the unglamorous things that you're already doing. Dishes, laundry, housework, Excel spreadsheets, invoicing, client calls, whatever is kinda like that.
If I had a fairy to come along and do this for me, like I would, I would say look for those and think about how you can maybe flip that to be a little bit more happy. Whether it's like we're doing, we're, you know, in my world, we were making hundreds of phone calls a day. And so I would ask the team, I'm like, okay, crappy to happy. And they're like, all right, when we get through 200 phone calls, we're gonna get Starbucks. And I was like, that's how it's done. Because part of it's just giving yourself a little bit of something to look forward to.
Vivian Kvam (24:11)
Ha ha ha.
Lisa (24:40)
and kind of smiling through the like, well, we're gonna do it anyway. Might as well make it crappy to happy.
Vivian Kvam (24:45)
Yeah, one of the things I've found which is so simple is just music, right? Like just saying, I'm gonna blast it or I'm gonna go, you know, or I'm gonna stand the whole time I do this thing and I'm gonna move while I've got the music on. That can be so simple. Or like you said, in the car, playing and talking to the kids, right? Like it could be so easy to get in the car and just zone out and not really take that as a moment of…
Lisa (24:53)
Hahaha.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
Vivian Kvam (25:15)
There have been a couple of times with the kiddos in the car where we're just pointing out pretty things or cool things, right? Oh yeah, you're right. That cloud is so cool. Oh my gosh, you're right. That's such a big truck. Isn't that neat? You know, we have some little kids. And so that also has just been really fun to think about. So I appreciate that you encouraged that, that it doesn't have to be adding more because I'm an add more kind of person. Yes. Mm-hmm.
Lisa (25:20)
Yeah.
I'm sorry.
I know, right? It's, yeah. More tasks. That's like the chasing and it's like, oh, I know. But yeah, it can be small.
Vivian Kvam (25:49)
So, okay, speaking about adding more, you run your Rising Tide events, you do a lot of speaking, you coach folks, you mentor, and then you decided, I'm gonna add a book while still incorporating Joy on my calendar and that. Yeah. So let's switch gears just a little bit into where this book idea that I was… that you're gonna do it come from and how did you make it happen?
Lisa (25:55)
Yeah.
I'm wearing a helmet.
You know, it was so funny because I had a number of people like in our family lives asking like, hey, how do I get a joy calendar? Or I would even get texts from people saying like, good news, I started one. And so it was kind of a fun that like six or eight months where I'm like, wow, this actually works. I started doing some sessions on it in my business and I was like, okay, people are resonating with this. And then after about, you know, a half a dozen people were like, when are you gonna write the book?
And I was like, the book, huh. Like, that's a thought. And so I always say, if there's something that I'm contemplating or dreaming towards, I try to talk about it with a couple of different people just to bring it up in conversation. Like, what do you think? Have you ever done it? So I kind of went, I was like Inspector Gadget with my looking glass. I was like, hmm. And so I started to just ask a few people, how have you done it? What would you do? And I did end up hiring a book.
Vivian Kvam (26:47)
Hehehehe
Mmm.
Lisa (27:15)
coach because I just wasn't confident that I could keep myself accountable while learning all of the things that go into it. Like how does one get an editor? How does one publish on Amazon? Like a lot of the questions I needed like that helper. So I did work with a book coach. She was more, here's how we get organized. Like here's the first order of business and so on. And it took me, I would say about five months to do.
Vivian Kvam (27:21)
Hmm.
Lisa (27:45)
And it was a journey for sure.
Vivian Kvam (27:48)
I see it on your face, you're like, and I'm gonna pause there. Five months does not seem like a very long period of time. I think a lot of people hear about authors who write novels and it's five years in the making and they're sweating blood and it's crumpled papers on the floor and that five months sounds fast. It sounds impressive. Is that…
Lisa (27:53)
Yes.
Okay.
Vivian Kvam (28:14)
Do you have any idea? Is that normal? Was it just the pace you set for yourself? Was there a goal in place?
Lisa (28:19)
Yeah. She typically, based off of what I told her, I was like, I have this idea, you know, the idea is, I shouldn't say fairly simple, but it's not like a novel where I have to like develop the characters. So it was kind of like, I know it's going to be like a coffee table quick read. Like I know that. And then the thing that she really helped me think about was the first kind of order of business was the brainstorming piece. And I actually brainstormed on sticky notes, which is why the book
Vivian Kvam (28:36)
Mm.
Lisa (28:47)
only like not only should you like keep a running list and maybe use sticky notes for your joy list, but that's how I kind of brain dumped every single idea that I had any, whether it was a story or an idea or a phrase. I just ended up with like hundreds and hundreds of sticky notes. So we spent a few weeks doing that. And then she helped me sort through like what things kind of go together. And then the third thing was really, okay, now the writing process.
And it was funny because she encourages you to sit down and write like this many words per day or this amount of time per day. And I had to laugh because after about two weeks, I was like, I didn't do it. Like I started to write and then I would erase and then I would start and I would erase. And she was like, Lisa, you're a speaker. Speak it. So I actually downloaded a transcription app. And for like 10 minutes at a time, I would be like, I would take my Post-it note and I would be like,
Vivian Kvam (29:29)
I'm going to go.
Lisa (29:45)
You know, when I was little, I had this time where, you know, dot, and it just became a compilation of notes that then became the book. So I feel like I wrote it in a very non-traditional way, but because my, you know, my, I don't know, favorite way to communicate is speaking. For me, that felt easier. And so I, how long? I would say probably.
two months, a couple times a week, I would get in there and do like three or four notes of things and then by the end, I had the document and she's like, all right, now let's sort it. And she kind of led me through of like, what would order what things go in? Do you have any duplicate stories or things that maybe you've said multiple times? And then from there, I was like, okay, I have the pile of words and off it went to be edited.
Vivian Kvam (30:40)
That's awesome.
Lisa (30:42)
That was really cool.
Vivian Kvam (30:43)
So then there's like just promo-ing it, right? You have it written, you've got stacks of them, I'm assuming that arrive in boxes to your house and then you're like, okay, what was, yeah, here we are. Like how do you get them into people's hands? I know you have it on Amazon, but how did you go about that?
Lisa (30:46)
Yeah.
Yes.
Here we go.
Yes. I would go, I would say the one interesting thing, and I, you know, this might be like the tiny bit of contentious, like, no, I'm going to do it anyway, or I don't. I had spent like two years building my social media brand and presence. And so I had built up kind of like the muscle of posting on social media semi-regularly. And so in my mind, I was like, okay, I know I want to start talking about it there.
And then I know, you know, I have an email list, which I still am not super great about emailing, but you know, you give yourself some grace, right? And so I was like, okay, I can do a little bit of emailing. And then from there, it was really a lot around every event that I go to, I mention it, they, you know, I drive them back to Amazon. And then I also had a book team, like a launch team. And those are the folks that kind of become your cheerleaders. And they help.
Vivian Kvam (31:35)
It's there.
Lisa (31:56)
spread the word, so they got to read it first. And then, you know, you ask folks that you know, like, hi, ask people to write a review, if you know of anyone. So it was kind of a couple of coordinated efforts of, okay, I know I'm gonna talk about it on social, I know I'm gonna email, and then I know I need to kick off this team, and just make sure I talk about it nonstop.
Vivian Kvam (32:21)
That I think is kind of business in general, right? Like just get out there and start talking about it on every channel and platform that you have. Which is simple and yet so not simple. Yes. I love how you talk about though giving yourself grace too. There's so much of like, well, the way you have to do it is and you can go about things in such a non-traditional way. The whole point is the end result is a book. Who cares if you're...
Lisa (32:23)
Yeah, it's like.
Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
I know.
Yeah.
Vivian Kvam (32:50)
transcribing notes from a bubble bath into your phone or if you're picking up the kids and thinking about something and you're just like talking it out. I think that's really great to point out that you don't have to do it any one way, just as you don't have to do joy any one way.
Lisa (32:50)
Yeah.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, well, and you're almost, yeah, and you'll almost drive yourself nuts. Like I did enough investigation of like, okay, this is what I've, you know, I've heard people do. And then I just kind of was like, okay, so that means that all the 10, you know, the 10 people I talked to, they're all doing it different. So me too, like I'll just kind of pick and pull what I like from what they're doing. And yeah, to your point, it's your journey.
Vivian Kvam (33:21)
Right.
What do you think, looking back now, was one of the more exciting pieces of the journey, like a highlight moment? And what was a part where you thought, oh my gosh, I'm not sure how I'm going to get through this one?
Lisa (33:40)
Yeah, I think the biggest, and maybe I'll answer it slightly different, but I think it'll hit on like what you just said. My biggest fear of writing a book was that people wouldn't like it. And I, just like I tell other people, like change your mind, right? And so my advice and almost like highlight, but also like hardest thing was just deciding to put it out there. You know, when you have like your stack of papers and you're like, they might hate it.
Vivian Kvam (33:49)
Mm.
Lisa (34:09)
And I just decided that I was going to say to the person that says that, like if they say, okay, I didn't really enjoy it. I'll be like, that's fair. I'm doing really hard things to push myself. What are you doing? Because I think that if anything, if the book isn't good, it's still one of the hardest things that I have done. And that makes me the most proud because I'm sure if I write a second book, it'll be better.
Vivian Kvam (34:24)
Mm.
Lisa (34:39)
And I'm sure if I had more time and resources and all of those like things that we wish we had more of, like sure it could be a million times better too, but that I think was the most rewarding when I was like, okay I have officially changed my perspective. If they hate it, that's okay. Like I'm okay with that.
Vivian Kvam (35:03)
And I think overall people have not hated it. They've really enjoyed it. I've had so many people, we actually bought copies of it to give as gifts to some of the people on our team who work with us. And a number of people said, this is really like as it should be, it's really fun. Like this is really fun to read and there's some great like tips and ideas here and the stories really resonate and land well. And you know, I was talking to a woman in the community here who
Lisa (35:06)
Well, they have it.
Yeah.
Yeah!
Vivian Kvam (35:32)
We were just chatting about other things. She's like, oh my gosh, I've been reading… did you get Lisa's book? You know, and I was like, that's so fun because I was like, yes, of course I got Lisa's book. But I loved that people are even asking us like, hey, have you seen this book by this woman named Lisa? And I'm like, Lisa, oh, interesting. Yeah, I know her, you know. So that's really fun to hear people… I think when something starts to expand outside of your like first circle, second circle, that feels really neat, right?
Lisa (35:40)
Thank you.
Yeah, like, oh, right.
Vivian Kvam (36:01)
Where…
Lisa (36:01)
Nice.
Vivian Kvam (36:01)
people are like, oh, like not just my mom likes this. Like, great, my husband wasn't lying to me. Like, awesome.
Lisa (36:05)
I know, right? Thanks, Mom. I know it's so funny. I had a friend who, she was taking her daughter to dance class and she goes, she was sending me a text message and she's like, Lisa, I saw your book out in the wild. And I went right over to this lady and was like, hi, tell me how you know about this book. And it was just, it is really fun to see. And that's my whole goal is I hope that joy becomes contagious.
Vivian Kvam (36:25)
Hehehe
Lisa (36:32)
and that people are intentional and they're like telling their friends, like we've got to have a joy calendar. We've got to have a joy list because joy is our job. And that would be like my ultimate dream if it expanded to where people were like spreading it and sending it and mentioning it. Yeah, to like, like you said, those third ring people, people who don't do it because they know me, but they do it because they're like, yeah, I need more joy. Like, of course I need to make joy my job.
Vivian Kvam (36:38)
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that. So if people want to connect more, well, first off, they could buy the book on Amazon. Is there anywhere else? Is that the best place to go for the book?
Lisa (37:10)
That's the best place to go. If you go to my website, you can click and like click on the shop and it will take you over to Amazon. That's the best place to grab it. Um, and then I do sell them at my events, but I haven't dabbled in the like sending things out individually. So it's like come to an event or grab it on Amazon.
Vivian Kvam (37:29)
Perfect. I love that. Okay. Let's talk briefly a little bit about the events that you do. Fill us in, the Rising Tide events, and when is your next one?
Lisa (37:34)
Yeah.
My next one is April 25th here in Des Moines, Iowa. So if you're in Des Moines, you should. And the idea, the premise behind it is that to get where we're going, we need good people. We need connections, whether it's knowledge or we like, I know a guy or just even someone that says like, keep going. Like that's really why I started this event is that this idea that if we all get together, we're going to like rise, you know, rising tides lift all boats.
So that's kind of the behind it. And then the way that the day is organized is you get to do some speed networking, one-on-one connections, where I basically give you a new conversation model. So like put away your business card, nobody wants it. They want you. And I teach you how to be interested and interesting. And then the second part of the day are TED Talks, where you get some featured speakers. And then the third part of the day are Think Tanks, where you get to ideate and you're put into pods and groups.
Vivian Kvam (38:22)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (38:36)
and you get to really wrestle with ideas, but also give input to other people's projects or challenges or ideas that they're kind of fiddling with. And the result has been, it's just phenomenal. People are making more money, they're finding jobs, they're collaborating on work and personal life things. It's, gosh, I can't even tell you how much I love these days.
Vivian Kvam (39:02)
Yeah, they are great and Mikhail and I have attended a few of them. And it's even with a similar formatting, it's different every time at the same time, right? And it's a different group of people and we love that. And you mentioned Lisa, hey, if you're in Des Moines and I'm gonna actually say scratch that. There are flights to Des Moines. And so yes, like I just highly encourage…
Lisa (39:06)
Yeah.
Yes.
Mmm. There are.
Vivian Kvam (39:26)
Even if you're outside of the area, like this is one worth grabbing a ticket. And Des Moines is a fabulous city. It's been really up and coming as far as just having some cool art scene. There's some great music. If you're interested in going, you want to reach out to me. I have a favorite tea shop and a favorite Italian grocery and some favorite restaurants. So I think it's like well worth people considering grab a ticket and fly in or drive.
Lisa (39:32)
It is.
I'm sorry.
Absolutely.
Vivian Kvam (39:52)
come to the event, I don't think you have to be a local to really get a lot out of the events.
Lisa (39:55)
Oh, absolutely. We've had folks come from, I think, four or five states now. And it's just phenomenal about even like seeing, then I'll see a social media post where two of them are collaborating. And I was like, wait a minute, in my mind for a hot second, I'm like, how do they know each other? And then I'm like, duh, it's the event. It's rising times. That's how they met.
Vivian Kvam (40:00)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Lisa (40:13)
Vivian Kvam (40:14)
Yeah, and that actually happened with us. And funny story with that is the woman that we're working with, graphic designer, her business is also has tandem in the name and ours has, of course, tandem, tandem works, writing tandem. Hers has tandem in the name and so we're just like, well, this is like obviously a match made in heaven. And that was like one of the first connections that we made there. So it was really cool. Okay. And then also tease it out just a little bit. You have a podcast coming soon.
Lisa (40:32)
And then to boot.
I love them.
I do. Yeah, they have good verbal effect podcasts. It'll probably be out in the next like 45 days or so all the episodes are ready to roll. We're just getting things lined up and finished our, you know, finishing our producing of it. And it will be talking about connection, impact and joy. And the reason why there's a great quote by E.B. White and he says, you know, I wake up in the morning torn between whether to save the world or savor the world.
Vivian Kvam (41:00)
Perfect.
Lisa (41:10)
And then I turn that on its head and I say, why not both? So it'll be a really neat way for folks to get more information on connection and impact and joy, stories and strategies, and even a little bit of the science behind, yeah, how does one get themselves ready for all of it?
Vivian Kvam (41:11)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (41:29)
Vivian Kvam (41:29)
I love it. That sounds awesome. And I love that quote. I feel like that is such a, like, for sure goes through my head all the time. Like, should I be just enjoying this right now? Should I fix this? Should I run around? Should we make something happen? Should something be going on? Maybe I should just sit back. So yeah, absolutely. Well, Lisa, I like to end with some just for fun kind of rapid fire questions. This is a total steal off of I was listening to.
Lisa (41:32)
I know.
Yeah, right?
Yeah.
Oh, sure.
Vivian Kvam (41:55)
the fabulous Brene Brown and she does some of these. I was like, I am stealing that. And so I have a couple just quick fun questions for you, okay? Don't feel like you have to overthink it. But if you do, that's fine too. We're talking about you can do both, so that's fine. What do you think is one of the biggest misconceptions about owning a business?
Lisa (42:10)
Yeah.
that it frees you up. Actually, like makes you busier, especially in the beginning, cause it's like, oh, now I'm the accounting department and I'm the HR department and I'm all of the things. And it's amazing, but it also, it just makes you busier than you ever imagined. And you laugh when you're like, wait, what?
Vivian Kvam (42:21)
Yes, yes.
Yes.
Lisa (42:38)
Vivian Kvam (42:38)
Yes, well, okay, so I know I said rapid fire, but I think this is a super important point because I talk to a lot of people who go, I wanna start a business because I want more time, I want more joy, I want more flexibility, I want all these things, all of which I think is very possible. However, I do like to challenge back with like,
Lisa (42:55)
Yes.
Vivian Kvam (43:00)
Do you want to own your own business or do you want these outcomes? Because you can have these outcomes whether or not you own a business or if you work for someone else or you… and there's different types of businesses you can own. Franchises, are you in freelance? You know, so there's all these different things. So I think this is such an important one, right? You jump in like, oh, I'm going to have all this joy because it's my job and then you're like, wait, I need to make joy my job because I made my job. Yeah, not joyful.
Lisa (43:06)
Right.
Bye!
I would agree.
I'm sorry.
Mm-hmm, exactly.
Vivian Kvam (43:31)
What's an important piece of advice you've been given and you have actually used?
Lisa (43:36)
Ooh, important piece of advice. I think it's a combination of like work hard and play hard. And I think that just goes to all the things that I'm about, but it's like, you need to work hard. So I'm not afraid to hustle, but I also am like, but I hustle in my play too. Like I am not afraid to do both. And I think that that's like, we're constantly looking at it like a, you know, like a speed limit, like, you know, and I'm like, okay, more of this, less of that.
But I think it's great advice because if you take yourself too seriously or not seriously enough, like you're going to end up with the wrong result.
Vivian Kvam (44:13)
Yeah, that's good. Do you have a favorite, like kickback and relax beverage?
Lisa (44:22)
I would say if we're talking like alcohol, I love a good like seltzer on a hot day. Like that would be great. Otherwise probably like a, like a girly mocktail if we're talking like non-alcoholic, just something that makes me feel like I'm on the beach. You know, it like does the same thing. It's like the placebo effect. Like I'm on the beach, right?
Vivian Kvam (44:40)
Yeah.
Yeah. I feel like beverages, whether you're doing the alcohol end of things or the non-alcoholic, they could be a great way to have joy. I was at a friend's house and she made a drink and she popped an umbrella in it and I was like, an umbrella? This is awesome. And I'm like, I should have some umbrellas and just pop them into a drink at home whenever I want. That's right. Is there a song, book or podcast that really inspires you right now?
Lisa (44:53)
Yeah.
Bye.
Yeah, celebrate it.
Ooh, I would say the book that I read most recently that's kind of like in the back of my mind is called The Measure. And I'm drawing a blank on the author's name because I listen to everything on Audible. But they every kind of the premise is everybody in the world on a random day is delivered a small box with a string. And nobody knows what they mean. They're all over the world. And they're I think you have like it's you're an adult when you get your box. And it I won't spoil it. But they try to figure out.
what that string means in relation to life. Like, is it the length of your life? Is it how much you're enjoying life? Is it like how much life you've already lived? And it's so interesting because it really puts in perspective of like how you measure your life. So I think that's the one I would recommend to folks if they're looking for a book.
Vivian Kvam (45:46)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
That's good, because we are always measuring and that comparing and that for sure. What excites you the most about the future?
Lisa (46:09)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Ooh, excites me the most about the future. I think the thing that's exciting on the horizon is I've spent the last couple years, you know when you first start a business, you're like, I don't know if I can do it. And then you get into business and you're like, okay, do I know what I'm doing? And then like the third and fourth years, you're like, okay, I kind of feel like I know what I'm doing, but now I can stretch. I think I'm excited for some of these like stretch projects that I've got on the horizon.
Vivian Kvam (46:26)
Hmm.
Lisa (46:41)
and that I'm feeling confident in my ability to fail forward. Like I would just fail and be like, okay, that didn't work. Let's try something else.
Vivian Kvam (46:47)
Excellent.
Yes, I love that. What is something, Lisa, that people often get wrong about you?
Lisa (46:59)
Ooh, get wrong about me. I think that they often think that I'm like sunshine and rainbows and I think I'm actually like a very optimistic realist. Like I actually think most things are gonna like fall apart but we'll fix it. Like it's all gonna fall apart but we'll fix it. And I think that that is like a blessing and a curse because you know, people are like, you're so fun and energetic and I'm like.
Vivian Kvam (47:15)
Hmm
Lisa (47:29)
Yeah, but I think on the inside, I'm always a little worried of like, well, if the world falls apart, I am prepared. And so it's a funny thing when people get to know me and they're like, Oh, like you expect things to go wrong. You're not just like expecting everything to be like sunshiny.
Vivian Kvam (47:34)
Mmm.
Yeah, that's – that is interesting about you. It is so interesting. I imagine too, especially as you get up in front of so many people and you present, right? People start to make assumptions or they guess because they've seen this one little piece and so I'm not necessarily surprised by that.
Lisa (47:44)
And I'm like, yeah.
No.
Vivian Kvam (48:05)
But I love that and it's like this strange little twist, right, of like you're expecting everything to go wrong but you know it's going to be fine. So in the end it is kind of all roses and sunshine in the end. Yeah. Okay, last one for you. Excited to ask you this one. What can business owners do to make the world a better place?
Lisa (48:13)
It's fun. Yeah.
Yeah.
Vivian Kvam (48:24)
Lisa (48:25)
Oh, what can business owners do? I feel like we could just, maybe we should go another hour on this one. But I would say that the things that business owners can do to make the world a better place is to share networks and share the love. I think, you know, I partner with local businesses and even businesses that are not local. And just because we're cheering each other on, I'm like drawing all the people that are in my network and I'm like, look over here.
Vivian Kvam (48:29)
For sure.
Hmm.
Lisa (48:52)
And so I think that whole concept of like, look over here and collaborate in small ways and share networks. It just brings new services and products to new people. It also brings revenue to those businesses. And inadvertently, I always say what you put out comes back. So it's kind of like a wave, you know, it's like you put out good things into the world, they'll come right back to you.
Vivian Kvam (48:52)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I love that. Well thank you so much. This is fun. And I'm so excited about your book. Congratulations again on being able to have it out. So I'm gonna just plug it one more time. Make sure to go grab a copy of Joyous My Job. It's such a cute book too, but the concepts are like we said, like there, it is a cute book but there's a lot of me in there and there's a lot of good takeaways that can have such an impact.
Lisa (49:18)
Yes. Well, thank you. Thank you.
It is.
Vivian Kvam (49:41)
on people's lives and then the lives of people around them. And I think that's so important. So thank you for doing good work. Yes, yes, thank you for doing good work like that. I appreciate it so much.
Lisa (49:45)
Yeah, make joy your job.
Thanks.