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Demystifying The Indie Film Journey
This is Truly Independent, a show that demystifies the indie film journey by documenting the process of releasing independent films in theaters. Each week, Garrett Batty and I, Darren Smith, will update you on our journey, bringing guests to share their insights into the process and answer your questions. In today's episode, we speak with Kynan Griffin, co founder of AeroSTORM Entertainment and one of the pioneers of kick starting films. We also answer the listener questions, how do you determine the best markets for an indie film release? And have we considered an online release shortly after the theatrical run?
Daren:All this and more in today's episode of Truly Independent. This is episode 7. Garrett, what's up, man?
Garrett:Hey. Good to see you.
Daren:You too. Man, I'm excited today. I am pumped. We are just in the thick of it with our movies right now. It was so fun telling everybody last week that we have 2 movies coming out.
Daren:Surprise.
Garrett:Yeah. Yeah. The Maid of Angels, it's September. Those are dates are officially announced. We can finally talk about it.
Garrett:And the Carpenter, November 1st, momentum is building for that one as well.
Daren:Yeah. Oh, man. It's been so fun being in the thick of it. Like, we're having meetings multiple times a week with lots of people, and we see people, jumping on and being willing to help. It's super cool.
Daren:We're gonna touch on that in a little bit. But first, did you see any indie movies this week?
Garrett:I did. Yep. I'm happy to report that I did, I went and saw Sound of Hope. Story of Possum Trot. Angel Studios released that, movie on July 4th.
Garrett:There was a huge if you if you lived in the United States, you saw advertisements for, Sound of Hope on social media, just a huge social media campaign, And, they always do such an amazing job at their marketing and building an audience. I mean, they they have built from the ground up a a network of 100 of 1000 of supporters and backers, and, they just have a model that is envious, enviable. Is that the word? Anyway, so Yeah. The movie itself was very powerful as as a father of adopted children through the foster care program.
Garrett:It certainly was heart, you know, pulled pulled the heartstrings, and, congratulations to those filmmakers, 1st time filmmakers, of that movie, is great. How about you, Darren? What did you see?
Daren:It's so, so cool. I while we're on it, I do wanna touch on their success over the weekend because they hit the number 7 box office spot, opened on 2,200 screens to $3,000,000 that weekend. Now that includes Thursday, which was 4th July, but man, oh, man. Like, that's awesome as an indie, as a, you know, lower but I don't know what the budget on that movie was, but my gosh. They know how to market films.
Daren:They know how to put them in theaters. They're killing it over there. So congrats to everyone involved, to Angel Studios, all of our friends over there, and, again, the filmmakers of the movie. Great. Great job.
Daren:I'm excited to see it as well. I haven't seen it yet, but I did see 2 indies this last week. I saw a movie called Theater Camp, which is awesome. It's like Ben Platt and a group of, actor friends. I think that I was looking into it a little bit.
Daren:It started as, like, a short film, and they expanded it and turned it into a a thing. But if you are someone who was in the arts in high school, like, this movie will resonate. There's it's so specific, so fun, and, they did a great job with it. So a fun little indie. I think you can watch it on Netflix.
Daren:I think that's where I saw it. The theater camp was great. And then our friends over at, JK Studios and Sorrow Films, they made a movie a few years ago called Stop and Go. I don't remember what it was originally called, but, like, it went to the South by Southwest Film Festival and it got picked up by BuzzFeed Studios. Like, they did an amazing job.
Daren:It's this nice little, small indie, and it's great. And it's always fun seeing your friends, like, in real movies. You know? Yeah. So congrats to them too.
Daren:And that that's a few years ago that that movie came out, but it was a lot of fun. The the humor is really, really good in that movie, really tight and really well thought out. And kind of the first movie about the pandemic experience that came out, if I remember right. So they just capitalized on it and went for it. And I don't know how hard it was making that movie in 2020, but they did it.
Daren:So congrats to them as well.
Garrett:Cool. Cool. Yeah. Always JK Studio always does fun stuff. Good for them.
Daren:Yeah. Alright. Well, we've been up to a lot the last 2 weeks. So before we get to our guest today, we really should update people on, you know, we're, I I didn't do the math ahead of time, and I'm bad at public math. So it's the 8th, 9th January 9th January.
Daren:9th July. So we are about 2 months out from the release of, Fake Angels. So what are we working on and what are we doing every day to make this a successful release?
Garrett:So one of the things we did this past week that was, very that we're we're thrilled about and is turning out is we released the trailer via an up viral campaign. So it was a campaign to unlock the trailer. We posted it, not publicly, not on social media or anything like that. Just lock put the trailer behind, essentially, a locked vault, and you had to put your email in in order to access it. The idea was that you unlock the trailer and share it, and then, the more shares that you do, you receive points toward viewing the movie, at a at an advanced screening.
Garrett:So it's a little bit little bit scary because you think, oh, we're gonna launch this trailer and then limit the access to it and limit the views. Is that worth it? And
Daren:Well, I think it's really worth it. Like, if you're talking about, you know, trying to build an audience, you know, I've been doing this for over a decade now. And if you can get a 100 emails from a campaign like that, that's amazing. Like, that's a 100 people. That's a small theater.
Daren:That's a small venue of people that are there saying, yeah, we're interested, and we're supporting you. We wanna be involved, and we wanna know about this. So far and this is a 2 week campaign that we've set up. And so the you can see the trailer for Faith of Angels for 2 weeks if you go to this up viral site. We'll put a link in the show notes as well.
Daren:And you can watch it. And then it gives you an opportunity to share it online, and so it encourages and incentivizes sharing as well because people can get access to things like screenings and other stuff. But in a week, we've done nearly a 1000 people have signed up for this. So a 1000 emails that have been added to our email list that are now people that we have permission to contact again, to tell them about the release, to tell them about the Kickstarter, to tell them about all the things. And I just said a word that we haven't even touched on yet, but, like, that's the strategy there is, like, the 2 weeks before the next thing we're gonna talk about, we did this up viral campaign to try and get as many new people into our kind of little ecosystem of email as possible, and it's going really, really well.
Daren:We have a 1,000 new people that have joined the email list. That's awesome.
Garrett:Huge way. We're just thrilled, and we're thrilled. And as much as you'd say, oh, well, I want the and the numbers on on social media or the the YouTube count to go up, it will. It will. Don't don't we it's I have to tell myself not to worry about that.
Garrett:But right now, you know, if 10,000 people watched it on YouTube, I don't have any way to contact them. We don't have any way to, like, follow-up or or or or promote again. But now we've got a 1,000 people that will be encouraged to share this, and, yeah, it's well worth it. So we're very excited about that. And Darren, you you gave a little hint to Kickstarter.
Garrett:That's what this episode's about, and that's what we wanna announce that we are doing we are launching We have launched by the time, this episode lands. We have launched a Kickstarter campaign for Faith of Angels. We had so many people reaching out saying, how can we help? This is exciting. We want to see this movie.
Garrett:And, so we've said, look, we are going to do a Kickstarter campaign to help get the word out there, to allow people to help participate, and essentially to raise awareness and and funds to take this to more theaters.
Daren:Yeah. And it's interesting maybe to talk about why Kickstarter because we've been talking about email and we've talking about owning our audience and all that stuff. But for me, Kickstarter is such a a a known entity. And so people are familiar with what a Kickstarter is. They probably backed to Kickstarter before.
Daren:Kickstarter has raised, like, 8 +1000000000 dollars for creative projects since they started. Like, everybody knows what a Kickstarter is. And so being able to send people over there, they understand the mechanism of backing a project and picking a, a tier or a reward. Like, it all makes sense, and it's really easy and kind of frictionless as far as helping people contribute and back the project and be a part of it. But what's been really cool is, like you said, we've had people because we've built this into kind of our email system of being able to raise their hand.
Daren:If you click on a link, it'll kinda tag them as interested in the film. If they click a different link, it's like, oh, I wanna fund the movie. I wanna help fund the distribution. So we know in our, you know, list of 7 or 8,000 people now how many are interested in backing the project? Maybe not in those terms, but now that we have a Kickstarter that's out, we can then and we will have by the time this email or this episode is released, we'll have told them, hey.
Daren:A Kickstarter is coming. Get ready. Get prepared because we need your help sharing it. We need your help donating. We need a bunch of people to contribute on day 1 because that helps the algorithm on Kickstarter kind of take it up a notch and put it in front of more people.
Daren:That's free marketing. And so I'm really excited for how we've been systematically thinking about how do we build the audience? How do we give them the next thing, the next thing, the next thing? Because what we've touched on a number of times, I think is, well, if you if you don't want to be a flash in the pan, you don't want to be 3 months out and have a big marketing push and then have that die out, and then nothing until your movie comes out. So we're thinking about how do we build, build, build over the next 2 months so that we have this momentum going into opening weekend rather than, oh, shoot.
Daren:Everybody already saw this stuff, and they're not gonna see it again, and now they're not gonna show up.
Garrett:Yeah. That's exactly right. And so I I did one of those things, Darren, you always joke about where I say, yeah, just kinda end the end the sentence, which is fine because you made your point was made, and so I don't need to reemphasize that. Our guest that is that is on this episode, because of the nature of what we're doing with Kickstarter, I reached out to a friend, Kynan Griffin, who has essentially been what I think is this pioneer in, independent film and Kickstarter and that combination and how to make those, how to maximize, those two avenues of of raising funds and awareness. And so Kainan was kind enough to chat with us, and, we're gonna we're gonna chat with him
Daren:now. Hey, indie filmmakers and movie lovers. This show is sponsored by Purdy Distribution. Since 2011, they've been bringing incredible independent films to theaters, like Garrett Batty's The Saratov Approach, TC Christiansen's Love Kennedy, and McClain Nelson's Once I Was A Beehive. They've worked with top notch directors like Mitch Davis and Mark Goodman specializing in family, faith based, and funny films.
Daren:This year alone, they've released hits with JK Studios like Go West and Villains Inc, and have even branched out internationally with films shot in South Africa and Japan. Purdy Distribution works closely with indie filmmakers, designing personalized distribution plans whether it's a theatrical release or straight to streaming on platforms like Amazon, Itunes, Google, and more. If you have a PG or PG 13 film ready for the world, think about reaching out to Purdy Distribution. They're approachable and knowledgeable, ready to help you visualize your film's distribution. Even if your film isn't fully polished, they can offer valuable guidance.
Daren:Plus, if you need that crucial distribution piece for investor packages, Purdy Distribution can provide a letter of intent to distribute, helping you secure funding without locking you into a contract. Mark your calendars for Purdy Distribution's upcoming releases. Tokyo Cowboy on August 30th, the digital release of Thabo and the Rhino Case on September 1st, Faith of Angels in theaters on September 12th, Villains Inc on Amazon and Itunes on October 1st, and The Carpenter on November 1st. To stay updated on these releases and more, sign up for their newsletter at purdiedistribution.com. That's purdiedistribution.com.
Daren:Now back to the show.
Garrett:Okay. Hey. Welcome, Kainan. Thank you very much for being here. It is a thrill to be able to have you on the the podcast.
Garrett:This is Kainan Griffin, someone that I like to consider one of the, pioneers of of at least Kickstarter and doing independent films, and I've always admired, everything he's done. If you go to his IMDB, there are, what is it? Is it a 1,000 yet credits, Kainan?
Kynan:Thousand. Yes. A 1,000 credits. Now we've, probably made about 25 movies and a TV series. So, yeah, been busy.
Garrett:Yeah. Been very busy, and it's very been been very fun to watch, you do these, Kickstarters. So that's that is the topic of what we're what we're covering this episode. Darren and I are getting ready to do a kick starter for Faith of Angels, one of our films that we're releasing in the next 4 or 5 months. And, and so I thought, hey.
Garrett:Why don't we reach out to somebody who has done this, who has proven it, and could perhaps give us some great advice and and good advice to the listeners on does a Kickstarter well, how do you maximize crowdfunding for independent film, either releasing or funding it. So can you tell us kind of real quick just an overview of what kind of what a what your experience has been with raising funds through Kickstarter.
Kynan:Kickstarter, we actually got started on it when Kickstarter kinda first opened. We had a film which we had just shot, and we were like, hey. What's this thing? And so we just released a trailer on Kickstarter and said we were raising money, to finish the film. And we kinda did an experiment where we're like, what if we don't market this at all?
Kynan:What if we just put it on there and see what Kickstarter can do? And we raised it a little bit. I think that movie got, like, $20,000 or something. And that proved to us that it was a viable outlet. And pretty much every movie we did after that, we've pretty we've used Kickstarter as an additional marketplace.
Kynan:We haven't so much raised money for the films via Kickstarter. We've used it as a presales venue, as a additional territory where we can sell directly to the public and, build a fan base. Because what we found with Kickstarter is those people are your most die hard fans. Those people are the ones, who are willing to put, you know, their their money where their their fandom is. And so it's it's built a great community of of people who've gone on to be involved in a lot of our films too.
Kynan:So it's, that's primarily how we've used it as a a monetizable community of of fans.
Garrett:Yeah. That that's so cool. I mean, that's one of the things we've talked about a little bit on previous episodes is the importance of building an audience. As an independent filmmaker, sometimes the biggest challenge is, oh, you know, I wanna make a movie, but I don't have distribution or I don't have an audience. And, I think an active audience or if you can prove that there are people that will support your movies either in the theaters or via Kickstarter or streaming, that is certainly appealing to a distributor or to even circumvent a distributor and, release directly.
Kynan:And and I think it's getting more important. You know, in the the early days when we were making, we make a lot of fantasy and science fiction movies, The international market the international television market was strong for those, and so that's primarily where we were we're making them full. We make them, we'd sell them to foreign distributors, we'd get our money back right away. It was a a pretty simple business model, but that's kinda all gone away now. Those foreign sales territories, like, no one plays movies on TV anymore, hardly at all.
Kynan:And they haven't really developed, kinda AVOD and, other streaming systems of their own in all around the world. Like, the US has a lot of outlets, but foreign, they've kinda, like, shut down almost entirely. So it's it's hard to it's hard for independent films to make money in the same manner that they used to, and so I think places like Kickstarter are becoming more and more important, actually. On our last we have a series called Mythica, which is 6 films now. And on that one, that was the first time we used Kickstarter before we had actually shot the film.
Kynan:So we used Kickstarter to raise money for that film, and release it just because the the market's changed a lot, in the last since we released the first Mythical film. So, really is becoming an essential outlet, to sell directly to your audience.
Daren:Kinda, can you give us an idea? Because you said you started kinda when Kickstarter started. That's like 10, 12 years ago. Right? So how many people did you reach from that first, Kickstarter?
Daren:And what's kind of the trajectory because I think a lot of people go, well, I don't I can't raise a $1,000,000, so I might as well not even try. But you said you raised 20 on your first one. What's kind of the trajectory been over, I don't know, 10 or 12 Kickstarters that you've run now?
Kynan:Yeah. That first, that first Kickstarter, like I said, we just put it up there and did not even put it on Facebook or anything. You know? We're like it's kind of a secret. Put it up there.
Garrett:Under the radar. Yeah. Why get it out there?
Kynan:No. Because we were even, like the the fear was, like, are we even allowed to do this? Do distributors, like, we we weren't sure how people would feel about it at all. And once we saw they were comfortable with it, then we kinda the next few we dived in. But those first few Kickstarters we did, you know, we were getting, like, 20, 30.
Daren:And how many people did that, like, contributed to those Kickstarters?
Kynan:We're talking about 100 of people, right, Not 1,000. Just like 300 or 400 or 500. And, you know, I I think we set kind of like a high watermark on those early ones with, like, 60,000 and, $60,000. So we're like, yeah. But we kind of evolved our approach and strategies and and kinda saw the potential of king Kickstarter, and you can see it over the the Mythica films.
Kynan:As I say, there's been 6 of them. And, I think the first one got about $60,000. And by the time we did the 6th one, it was about 220,000. So you can see like a steady growth of, hardcore fans. So it's about I think those ones probably had about 1500 or 1600 fans.
Kynan:And, you know, I think the average spend on Kickstarter is about a $100. So if you're hitting about 80, 90, a $100 per backer, that's kind of the potential of of their fan base. So, they are really, really hard core. Like I said, they're they're wonderful fans, and they're the people which increasingly independent filmmakers need to be turning to. Because, like I say, that the marketplace is is very weird right now.
Garrett:Well, I think it's a testament to what you've done with those movies. You know, you have built a fan base. Certainly, if Mythica 2 or 3 let the fans down, you know, lesson learned, they're like, ah, we're not we're not part of that, but it's it's a complimentary relationship. Right? They support you and you give them what they want.
Garrett:Yeah. Which has been so fun to watch.
Kynan:And I should also add that we are really, really bad at at building an audience and kind of, like, we're so focused on, like, making movies that we're terrible at it. Like, we are, like, the worst. And and we have seen a couple people who we've worked with in the past who have really focused on building their audience and building, email lists and and completely networking and keeping in touch with their fans. And they're routinely doing 4, 500,000, 600,000 on Kickstarter for their movies. So it it's very possible to kind of fund your entire independent film that way if you focus on on building that that audience properly.
Kynan:As I say, we're terrible at it. We just we just make movies, and that's Well, it's It's kinda like a byproduct of actually just making lots of movies.
Garrett:Yeah. You mentioned, and and this is so relatable, that sentiment of, are we allowed to do this? Is the distributor going to be disappointed that, hey. You've already sold, you know,
Kynan:a 1000 units, and now
Garrett:I don't have an opportunity to sell more units. But that's not like, that's what I feel right now. We're getting ready to launch a Kickstarter for Faith of Angels, and I don't wanna dilute my offer to a distributor. That's not a case.
Kynan:Yeah. No. We've actually found the opposite. Like, our distributors have used it, as a marketing tool, like, saying telling territories, like, hey. They made this much on Kickstarter that proves that really love it.
Kynan:And so it's it's quite the opposite. And, also, I do believe it's a super effective marketing tool to just get the word out about your movie. So when you look at a Kickstarter campaign, when you look at the number of shares and the number of of, impressions and number of people who have seen that, particularly if you run some advertising on your Kickstarter, which we've done on some of our later Kickstarters. We've run Google Ads and and Facebook Ads and all the rest, because you can track pretty effectively how much money those lead to. You start seeing that your movie is now getting tens of thousands of impressions, everywhere.
Kynan:So even just your Kickstarter fan sharing it, if you have, you know, say 1500 people who back your project, you know, that about 20,000 people have looked at it and been like, That's interesting. And so it gets the word out about the film, way better than any other platform that I've seen.
Garrett:Yeah. That's encouraging because it's exactly kinda where we are. The movie's done. We're getting ready to release it. And in September, if people don't know about this movie, they will not be able to see it.
Garrett:And so I think the more we can tell them the the early on, the better opportunity we'll have to recoup in the theaters. Kinda, what do what can you tell me about the rewards? You know, are there rewards that you've seen that are more effective or low price or high price? What insights do you have?
Kynan:I think the more personal, the better. So, of course, the bulk of the rewards that people get are just buying physical product, actually, still, and and people like physical product. The people on kick start are people who still want you to send them a Blu ray or a DVD. The more fun you can make that packaging, the more exclusive you can make it to kick starter, on a a little horror movie that we did with Rob York, a couple years ago. He made, like, vintage VHS copies of it because it was kind of like a eighties throwback horror movie.
Kynan:Was that
Garrett:the curse, curse of Crom?
Kynan:Yeah. And, It's so fun. That was some fantastic packaging. Like, it came in, like, an old bedded plastic case even, like a video store. So, you know, I think giving them something which they can't get somewhere else.
Kynan:Of course, the bulk of your people are just gonna take the digital download or the the Blu ray, But as many opportunities they can get to interact with, they really like the stars of the movies. So, you know, signed posters, signed copies of the DVDs, those things go well. Meetings, like so we we've given away Zoom meetings. We've given away, like, cameo style greetings from the actors. Just a a sidebar to that, a Kickstarter can become very successful based on who's involved in the project.
Kynan:So if you have actors, directors, whoever with a large existing fan base already, get them to leverage that on behalf of your Kickstarter. Inactive, for instance, even if their fee to be in your movie is high, if they have if they agree to support the Kickstarter and have a big fan base, they'll pay for themselves, like, right away.
Garrett:Yeah.
Kynan:So I think, you know, but they have to be willing participants. They have to be bought into the whole process, and you can figure out with them how to to compensate them, how they can be, how they can benefit themselves from leveraging their network as well. But, you know, on on Mythica 6, just the fact that so Jake Stomone, who was one of the actors in the first five Methika movies, he came on board as the director of the 6th one. And, you know, his he's built a very active, fan base himself. He's really nurtured that and helped that, and and that helped tremendously with the Kickstarter.
Kynan:And, a lot of people who came on board were you know, came because they could get personalized rewards from Jake. So that's kind of something to really focus on. How can you give your fans something different than they can just get anywhere else?
Garrett:That's good. Yeah. That's very insightful.
Daren:So, Kainan, you and Jason have been business partners for a long time. You've been independent filmmakers for a long time. I'd love if you could speak to some of the maybe the ethos of your company, the way that you guys have approached the way that you do movies because you guys aren't, you know, it doesn't seem from the outside looking in that you're trying to become the next, like, Star Wars director producer. You they're happy with what you're doing. You love this independent thing.
Daren:Can you speak to that kind of ethos and your mindset around being an independent?
Kynan:Yeah. I I think we've always just focused on, making the movies that we would have loved to watch. Maybe we're we're trapped in a permanent adolescence or something that's probably a mental disorder, but, you know, we we we make movies which we would have loved to watch as as adolescent boys. And so, yeah, the the focus has very much always been on, you know, is this fun? Does this capture our imaginations?
Kynan:Is this something which we think other people like us would be excited to see? And so we're we've never really done you know, we don't write spec scripts, really. We only create the things that we're gonna make. And so, you know, we get ideas which we get excited about. And I would also say that every project is kind of like an experiment.
Kynan:We treat every project as like, hey. Let's see what happens if we do this. You know, nothing is that precious, I think, to us. We love it. We enjoy it, but it's not like, something which is like, oh, I'm gonna see this one through to the the end of my days.
Kynan:It's it's more like, hey, wouldn't it be cool if we did this? And so it's you try things and, it's, you know, I I some things have have turned out more successful than others, but I think we've learned something from every project and every project is fun. And, you know, we used to go to Comic Cons and things like that, and and you it's it's always refreshing to actually go, you know, meet the the fan base and meet the people who like your movies because, you know, that that's why you make them. It's, you love to meet the guy who says, like, oh, this is my favorite movie. And you're like, really?
Kynan:That's your favorite. But, you know, it it there's people who who love projects for different reasons, and so, that's always gratifying to to see. And so, you know, we we just keep doing that because that's what we enjoy and what we know how to do.
Daren:Yeah. That brings up one other quick question then. I might move this earlier in the conversation. But, like, where where is it most effective for you guys to run a Kickstarter? Early, like, the first money in to to even validate a project?
Daren:Have you ever used it to validate the demand for a project? Or are you I know you've done some, like, just for post production. So you've already made the movie, but now you're raising money for posts. Like, do you have any recommendations, or what's your experience been about the different timing of where the Kickstarter goes in the fundraising process?
Kynan:I think, as you say, we've mainly done it for kind of post production. And what's good about that is you already have, like, footage you can show people. It makes the marketing material super easy. We've only done it once where we we've done it before we shot the project, and that was on, Mythica 6, the one we just most recently did. And that was an interesting process to kinda pre create marketing materials and also because it was like a follow-up to, a series which had kind of concluded and was kinda relaunching in a a different direction.
Kynan:There wasn't that much we wanted to give away about the story, and so it's this, interesting juggling act of, like, how to get people excited about this without telling them too much? So I don't think it matters if you do it after you've shot the project or as you're planning the project. If you're doing it before you shoot the project, that would say, get as many things in place as possible, especially personnel. So if you can get a key actor on board, if you know who your director is, get the key people in place already so that you can use them in the marketing of the Kickstarter. So you're not just, saying, hey.
Kynan:We got this project. This is gonna be cool. You know, as as many specifics as possible. Just because leveraging those people's networks is so important. Like, leverage your actors' networks, leverage your directors' networks.
Kynan:So yeah. And then you can also customize rewards based on those people, which is very key.
Garrett:Kain, one question, and you've been generous with with your time already, so I don't wanna overstay. You're welcome. But, one question. You know, you raised 10,000 on Kickstarter. How much goes to Kickstarter?
Garrett:How much goes to rewards? Is there a simple math that you estimate?
Kynan:Yeah. I think, like I gotta remember. I think, like, 5% goes to Kickstarter and, like, 2 or 3% to your credit card processes. So you lose about 8% right off the bat and just fees. We also like to use backer kit, which is a fulfillment, it helps you with fulfillment, but also helps with marketing post the Kickstarter and actually during the Kickstarter.
Kynan:Okay. I'm gonna put a plug in here for BekaKit. BekaKit is a amazing service. It also allows you to email all your previous Kickstarter fans, and once they've backed the project, they stop getting emails from you. So, they have some cool tools in backlinkit, and they'll make your shipping easy.
Kynan:You can ship entirely through them or you can just buy postage through them and we'll organize all your groups. And you can upsell your Kickstarter backers. So usually, we find if we use backup kit, we get enough post Kickstarter sales to cover our entire shipping costs. So BakaKit BakaKit basically becomes a, free because you you upsell. So, like, I'm Mythicus 6, for instance.
Kynan:I think we did, like, 215, say, on, Kickstarter. And then on back a kit, we did an additional 18,000 in, like, people know about back a kit and they know like, oh, I can get more rewards down the line if I just, so I'll just back the Kickstarter. And back of kits actually launched, like, a competitor to Kickstarter for people who have already done a lot of Kickstarters. You can bypass Kickstarter and just use back a kit entirely to do all your marketing. So
Garrett:Go straight
Kynan:to your backers. Yeah. So Brandon Sanderson, he did that massive Kickstarter, for instance. His follow-up to it was just on BekaertkKit because he already had he's just marketing to those Kickstarter fans. Amazing.
Kynan:It can be a good tool. But I would say, yeah, you lose 8% to credit card and Kickstarter, and I would count on at least another 10% in shipping. K.
Garrett:Okay. That's that's helpful as we put this together and kinda estimate, what our goals are. Low goal or high goal as far as what you'd recommend? I know you have to meet the goal in order to collect any of it.
Kynan:Our experience is kind of being that, at first, we'd set low goals and we'd be like, oh, we doubled our goal. But then once we started setting the goals high, it's almost like if you set the goal high, you'll get there, you know, if you're marketing properly and all the rest. So it's on Mythicus 6, we set the goal at 200. Wow. Because we were like, hey.
Kynan:We can do that. We know we can do that. So, I don't know. Choose what you you wanna reach and and and go for it. You know, it's
Garrett:It's that it's that easy. You make it sound so easy.
Kynan:I it's it's it's only easy if you have, and it's not easy at all. It's a whole like, we like to run them for 30 days. There's no reason not to run 30 or 60 days. We run them for 30 days because it's so much work every day that we're just like, this is a huge distraction in our lives. And, basically, you have to set aside that that month for just it's just a mental distraction even if you're not working on it all day long.
Kynan:So
Garrett:Right. Right.
Kynan:Yeah. It's there's definitely you don't wanna fatigue your audience. You don't wanna, fatigue yourself by just constantly blasting people for 2 months of back my Kickstarter. Though it's been proven that there's no reason not to do 60 days. You're gonna get just a little bit more money.
Kynan:So
Garrett:Yeah. K. This has been super helpful and super insightful and a little bit intimidating, but but I'm encouraged. I think we're gonna move forward with our Kickstarter so we can get this movie out in front of as many people as and has want to back it.
Kynan:Yeah. Get those actors on board. Get them on board to to push it and push it.
Garrett:That's smart.
Kynan:And that's smart. Their networks.
Garrett:Kinda, what what where can our listeners, find out about what what else you're working on or whatever you
Daren:wanna put
Kynan:in? You, we have a website, arrowstormentertainment.com, or you can, find us on social media. You can look up the Mythica movies on social media or the Arrowstorm Entertainment. They'll we're we're over there. And like I say, we're very bad, at social media and communicating and all the rest, but, Kickstarter is is something which, we use as a as a way to stay in touch with our our people.
Garrett:Awesome.
Daren:Thanks so much, Ken. And it's good to chat with you today.
Kynan:Awesome. Thanks a lot, guys, and good luck.
Garrett:K. K. Be well. Wow. That was cool.
Daren:Yeah. I mean, you got 10 or 12 years of experience on Kickstarter compressed into a 30 minute conversation. That's pretty valuable. Really, I wanted to do it just so that you felt better about the Kickstarter that we're launching. Like, as this episode comes out, I think it'll be out a day already.
Daren:So
Garrett:Yeah.
Daren:Yeah. It's, a lot of work ahead, but I'm really excited because this is this is the embodiment of truly independent. We're going to the audience. We're saying we're doing this with you. Here's the goal.
Daren:Help us if you're interested. It's it's so exciting.
Garrett:Yeah. And it and it I mean, Kainan and, Jason have have built their business on on Kickstarter, like, with that initial campaign and then just built their audience. And now he says, yeah. For Mythica 6, get 200,000 via Kickstarter, plus another, what do you say, another 18, 20%, another 18,000 on a backer kit. What great tools great tools to do that independently.
Daren:Yeah. I mean, they've done over $1,000,000 in raises from their many different projects. I think there's 18 projects they've done over that time period. And, you know, like, we talk a lot about audience on this show and, like, they're explicitly saying we don't have an email list. We're not good at social media.
Daren:We don't talk to people very often. They're just they're they're raising the money and making movies, and they're just doing it. And they're in the industry. They've been doing this full time for as long as I've been in the industry here in Utah. I've looked to them as a as a massive success story because they just get to do it full time.
Daren:That's what we all want. But, again, we answered la in a in a previous episode, like, how big of an audience do you need? It's like, well, what's the outcome, and you reverse engineer from there. If they can get 1500 people to give them a $150 every couple of years, that's a big enough audience to go and make their movies. And that's what they need, and that's what they optimized for, and here they are.
Daren:They're still doing it.
Garrett:Like, it's awesome. Continue to serve that audience. That's what's yeah. That's key. It's kind of this it's both this give and take.
Garrett:We'll pay for what we want, and you'll provide what we pay for.
Daren:Yeah. And, I mean, look at the number of at bats they've had in the last decade or 2. Like, they've made a lot of movies.
Garrett:Yeah.
Daren:And so I I really am impressed by that just because they they figured out how they're gonna do it and they've done it. And that says a lot about who they are and the way they approach their work. And I know there's there's too many filmmakers out there that are all about the I can't because. And this limiting mindset of, well, I can't because I don't have the money, or I can't because I don't have a producer, or I can't because I don't know how to get an actor attached. And then it's 10 years later, and they still haven't made their movie.
Daren:I was one of those for 9 years, like well, actually 12 years. Tried to make a movie for 12 years, never did it. Because I had that limiting mindset around, well, I don't have the resources. Until finally I was like, you know what? I want to make a movie.
Daren:I wanna be a producer, so I'm gonna figure out how to do it. Yeah. And so I'm I just love that that's been their approach for so long to say, we're just gonna do it. We don't care if we have permission. We don't care if the industry likes it or not.
Daren:We're gonna go straight to the fans, and we're gonna make what they want and what we want, and they've done it.
Garrett:So Darren, we are launching a Kickstarter, or, if you're listening to this, we've launched a Kickstarter for Faith of Angels to take it to theaters across the country. The campaign is simple, that the you donate, you get rewards, and as a part of that reward, you get to voice, you know, share your ZIP code and voice where you would like the movie played, and then at $2,000 to an area, we can essentially book the movie in that area. It's simple, and I've made it complicated with that explanation. But the the point is is that the Kickstarter is active. Please go to it, share it, and participate so that this movie so we can reach the goal of taking this movie to theaters across the country.
Daren:Yeah. A 100%.
Garrett:Faith of angels.
Daren:Yeah. And if you're not in a position to donate or to contribute or back the Kickstarter, a share online goes a long way because every one of us has a 100 or 500, a 1000 people that we're connected with online. And a nice hearty check this out goes a long way in getting the kind of awareness and the visibility for this project, that we need. So please share it as well, whether or not you can help back the project.
Garrett:That's true. That's very good very good point. Should we look at questions that we received? We did have somebody submit, which is great. And this is from an old friend, Anthony Durbage, who was when I lived in Burbank, he was a great, great friend and fellow filmmaker, and, we've lost contact, but this podcast has, caught his attention.
Garrett:So he reached out.
Daren:Oh, that's so cool.
Garrett:Yeah. It was great. And he sent 15 questions. So,
Daren:Oh, boy.
Garrett:We'll now have a a question for every episode from here on out. Don't worry. We're not gonna get in all 15 here. But, he asked, how do you determine the best markets for an indie film release? And I think that that's, certainly fitting to what, what we talked about with the Kickstarter with, you know, Kainen and Jason at AeroSTORM.
Garrett:They have built they love this fantasy genre, and so they find markets and and areas to release their films in their in in who to people who respond to that genre. What do you think, Darren? How do we how do we determine the best markets for an indie film release?
Daren:Yeah. There's a principle I try my hardest to live by every day, which is the the easiest path to success is to put what you do exceptionally well adjacent to the people who already overvalue what you do. I'm gonna say that one more time because there's a lot of words. So do what put what you do exceptionally well adjacent to the people who already overvalue what you do. What does that look like in film and releasing a movie?
Daren:Well, let's take Faith of Angels as the perfect example. We're we're starting the movie. We're starting the release in Utah, or the Utah DMA, which we talked about with Susan. And so that's an audience of people who overvalue true stories about people in Utah that have a faith based element. So, like, we're hitting our market really hard.
Daren:We're not going to foreign sales first because they don't know who we are. Our actors aren't big enough, overseas to be able to have the kind of draw or the kind of pull or the kind of value. I hate that concept of, like, actors don't have value, but the people outside of our country don't necessarily overvalue what we do, but Utah does. And so strategically, we're going to them first because they're gonna show up in droves. We already know that.
Daren:We can already look at the counts of people who have, you know, submitted their names, and won it at their theater, and wanna donate, and wanna be a part of the film, And it's really concentrated in Utah, Idaho, the Utah DMA. So we start there, and then we use that to prove the market, and then the market responds by letting us expand and go wider. And so whether it's a film, whether it's your business, whether it's your script, the secret I think is to try and put what you do exceptionally well in front of the people who already value it, who overvalue what you do. So don't take a horror movie to a faith based filmmaker and vice versa. Align with the people who already see the value, and are ready and hungry for it.
Daren:And that is how I try to approach everything I do, whether in film or business, because it just is a secret or a principle that's worked time and time again.
Garrett:That's really cool, Darren, and very and, good good for any film releasing and and good for business in general. Great. Great input. One another question that came in is that well, he says, have you considered an online release shortly after the theatrical run? And we can talk about windows and things like that, and that's a that's a question we get.
Garrett:We've because we build an audience, we build this marketing wave, this tidal wave of awareness, and to put it in theaters. And then is there an opportunity immediately thereafter to capitalize on that and put it in streaming so that, you're not having to recreate that momentum? And it's certainly a mindset. I think that there is evidence through, especially through the pandemic and post pandemic when when we tried when not when when studios in Hollywood tried day and date releases, and that seemed like it didn't go well where it deflated your theatrical release, and audiences tended to not respond as as they might have had the film only been exclusive to theaters. There's also a sensitivity toward theater owners to say, we want you to push this film and market this film.
Garrett:Oh, and by the way, it's coming out immediately on the heels of this release. So, again, the theater owners are saying, well, why are we pushing the audience and awareness for this movie that that people are gonna purchase somewhere else, not in our theaters. So I personally believe that there's enough evidence and enough support to say, look, the theaters get the first shot, and that is our focus. And after that release, we'll position the film for for streaming and post theatrical markets, but, but I don't want to blur the lines between those 2.
Daren:Yeah. The data also shows that it's it's not smart to eat into your theatrical release, especially as an independent filmmaker. So there's 2 sites I would point people to that I love love love reading. So one is stephen follows.comstephen follows dotcom. The other one is entertainment strategy guy, which is entertainment.
Daren:Substack.com, and both of them have reported extensively on this. They've gone in. They've run the numbers. They look at the data. They're both extremely data driven people, and they report on film.
Daren:And the data across the board, whether you're a studio or an indie is, like, don't don't eat your own tail when it comes to your theatrical release. It's always better to have a full theatrical run and then think about your not think about, but then do your window for streaming or whatever the next window is because you want to really like, that's what movies are. Let let me, like, get on my soapbox for 30 seconds here. Movies are going to a theater, big screen, dark room, amazing sound in a group of peep with a group of people who also are into it. And so you get this shared experience that can never be replicated.
Daren:Even if you go see the movie a second time, it's a different audience. And so it won't be the same experience. That's what movies are. So I love that you can watch movies on your phone, on the subway, across the world because the Internet, but that's not a movie to me. That's content, or that's just like filling a void of time that I need to have, like between a and b.
Daren:That's not a movie. That's not the movie experience. So us as filmmakers, at least me as a producer, I wanna make movies. Not for phones, not for iPads, not for home. Like, it's great, and I love that people can watch movies at home, but I want my movies in theaters.
Daren:That's what I'm making. That's the product that I'm making as a producer is an experience in a theater. So why would I cut into that by saying day and date or, you know, 15 days out we're gonna release it on streaming. No. I want everybody possible to go see it.
Daren:And if you limit the opportunity for people to go see it to just a theater, guess what? They're gonna go to the theater and see it. So off my soapbox, that's my branch for the day.
Garrett:Passionate about it, Darren. I I wish I could just get you fired up a little A little. No. I agree, and it's great. And I always it's a it'd be like as if, you know, maybe this maybe this isn't the best analogy.
Garrett:But if I'm a chef and a restaurant owner, I'm I'm less likely to to create a meal for you that you can just take to your picnic. Like, I want you to come in and experience the meal. If you needed to go box afterwards, great. I'll I'll provide that, but come in and experience the meal where it was intended to be experienced.
Daren:Yeah. Come to my restaurant rather than the frozen food aisle at Smith's.
Garrett:Sure. Sure. Sure. There's a good market for that.
Daren:Uh-huh.
Garrett:Anyway, well, good. Well, what an episode. Thank you, and fun to hear from Anthony, Durbridge on those. Thanks for your questions. We'll continue to answer some of those.
Garrett:If you have questions, submit them. Go to 3 coinpro.com/podcast and fill out the form. We would love to, find out what you wanna know.
Daren:Yeah. And the Kickstarter is live. So go to the link in description or the link in the comments or the the
Garrett:Yeah. Where are you listening?
Daren:Where are
Garrett:you listening?
Daren:Or the link in the show notes. And that is where you can go, and you can contribute, and you can tell people about it. We're gonna run this for, like, 30 days. So this is it's live as of yesterday. Please go help out and help us get this film into theaters.
Garrett:K. Thanks very much. We'll talk to you next week. We can talk to you next week.
Daren:Yeah. Thanks, man. Thank you for listening to this episode of Truly Independent. To join us on the side of new episodes and screenings and ask us questions about today's episode, head over to 3 coinpro.com/podcast and put in your name and an email address. If you're a fan of the show, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast app and be sure episode with a friend.
Daren:Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week. Our intro and outro music is Election Time by Kjartan Abele.