Make Money from People With Money | Multithreaded Income Episode 40 with Tessa Kriesel

In this episode, host Kevin Griffin sits down with Tessa Kriesel to discuss her journey from being laid off at Snap to becoming a successful self-employed consultant in the developer relations (DevRel) space. Tessa shares her experience dealing with an unexpected job loss and navigating the challenges of finding her next steps. She elaborates on leveraging her network, the importance of super fans, and various revenue streams, including consulting, content creation, and sponsorships. Tessa also highlights the value of hiring a business coach early and the benefits of an open-handed approach to giving. Join this inspiring conversation to learn how to turn setbacks into opportunities for growth and success.

Tessa on Twitter: https://x.com/tessak22
Tessa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tessak22/
Built For Devs https://www.builtfor.dev/

00:00 Welcome and Introduction to Today's Special Guest
02:15 Tessa's Journey: From Snap to Self-Employment
03:21 Navigating Career Changes: The Layoff from Snap
07:15 The Path to Self-Employment: Strategies and Realizations
24:02 Leveraging Networks and Skills for Success
29:57 Leveraging Networks for Business Growth
31:11 Exploring Affiliate Marketing and Referral Programs
34:28 Content Creation: Strategies and Tools

36:56 Maximizing Revenue Streams and Efficiency

49:03 The Power of Coaching and Community in Business

Creators & Guests

Host

Kevin Griffin

♥ Family. Microsoft MVP. Consultant/Trainer focused on #dotnet #aspnetcore #web #azure. VP at @dotnetfdn @revconf Mastodon: @[e-mail] - He/Him

Guest

Tessa Kriesel

#DevRel Consultant & Coach https://t.co/C8stikUlsD • Alum: DevRel Leader @snapar @XDevelopers • Dev+Biz 🧠 • Keynote Spkr • ENTJ-A • John 15:17 • https://t.co/jxuRvijrUN

What is Multithreaded Income Podcast?

In the "Multithreaded Income Podcast," host Kevin Griffin navigates the nuanced landscape of generating multiple income streams as a technologist. Aimed at professionals who wish to diversify their revenue while maintaining a focus on technology, this podcast dives deep into unconventional strategies, untapped opportunities, and actionable advice.

Kevin Griffin: Welcome back to the show.

Everyone.

Today's a great day.

I am joined by my very
special guest, Tessa Creasel.

How are you today, Tessa?

Tessa Kriesel: I am fabulous.

How are you?

Kevin Griffin: I am great.

So Tessa and I met a very long time
ago when I was running a little

conference called Revolution Conf
and you were at the, I'm trying to

remember what year you were there.

It was either 2018 or 2019.

Those were our two years at the beach,

Tessa Kriesel: Yeah.

20.

It was 2018.

Yep.

The good job on your memory

Kevin Griffin: I well, it's one
of the few conferences I just have

pretty much in the back of my head.

Tessa Kriesel: because it was beautiful

Kevin Griffin: to remember
everyone who was there.

Tessa Kriesel: and awesome.

Kevin Griffin: It definitely
that's what we wanted for it.

Like, so everyone's out there who
has no idea what we're talking about.

Revolution Conf was a conference.

I ran for 4 years, potentially
might do a 5th year.

And our venue was right off the
beach in Virginia beach, Virginia.

And the, what I always like to
tell people was go to your talk.

And if you wanted to take a break, just
literally walk out the back door and you'd

be on the beach and all the hotel rooms
had beach views and you could wake up at

five 15 in the morning to the sunrise.

And it was just overall
a, a great, great event.

Um, but Tessa was there.

And Tessa, now, honestly, I
don't remember what you spoke on.

That's the only thing I'm
lapsing, um, at the moment.

Was it so you remember what you spoke on?

All right.

Tessa Kriesel: I had so much fun.

Like, like, you know, we were
kind of talking before the show,

like I've been to a lot of events.

So when I see a good event, like I just,
I know it, you know, and revolution

conf was definitely one of those
good events where if it's like, Yeah.

If year five comes, like I
will be there with bells on

telling everyone else about it.

Um, so I, of course I remember
I spoke on mentorship.

I could probably even be like,
yeah, it's like down the hall on

the left side, cause I like kind of
remember the path of even the room.

So yeah, it was a beautiful event.

Kevin Griffin: We'll keep our
fingers crossed for a year or five.

Uh, and once I know Tessa,
you will be next to know.

How about that?

I

Tessa Kriesel: perfect.

That'd be great.

Well,

Kevin Griffin: Um, but that's not
what we're here to talk about.

I actually will talk about conferences a
little bit in the conversation, I think.

But.

weird reason if no one's heard of you,
can you give us a spiel of who you are

and what are you currently working on?

Tessa Kriesel: that's kind of nice
of you to be like, if no one's heard

of you, I'm sure there's plenty of
people who have not heard of me,

um, but that made me feel good.

Uh, so my name is Tessa Creasel.

I, uh, was previously, I haven't
done a podcast since I haven't

had an official job title.

This is interesting.

Uh, I was previously head of
developer relations over at.

Snap where I was working, uh, snap as,
as most people notice Snapchat, um, where

I was working on the AR side of things
with a really cool, uh, camera SDK.

Um, and so now I am no longer doing that,
but have been in the dev real space for

gosh, a number of years, which is awesome.

Lead me to a lot of great developer
events, um, previous to that,

uh, engineering manager and an
engineer for a number of years.

So tech is kind of in my blood
and I've been around for a while.

Um, but nowadays I'm actually self
employed and, um, having a lot of

fun with figuring out what, you
know, what my revenue streams are,

are going to be for the future, so.

It's a bit of an introduction on me.

Kevin Griffin: well, so let's
go back to your time at snap.

Your departure from snap
that wasn't by your choice.

Was it?

Tessa Kriesel: No, you know, the
sad thing about that Kevin too, is

that I actually really liked Snap.

There are so many tech
companies out there.

And some of them are great, but I
hadn't fallen into a great one yet.

And Snap was a great one.

And so February 6th, um, just
a few months ago, a couple

months ago, um, got laid off.

Unexpectedly, honestly, because
I knew, um, climate wise in

our business that there was a
future chance of that happening.

I had already watched two layoffs.

Um, but I thought about, I had
about another six months based

on some of the strategy and some
of, you know, just inklings.

Um, and so it really came to
as a complete shock because

everything I was going through.

With my strategy for the year was
like, Oh yeah, we're being efficient.

We're going to invest in
the things that matter.

We're going to hit things super hard.

It was really focused on just
like truly the deepest impact

so that I made sure I had a job.

Um, I didn't get the chance to do that.

And it kind of just took my feet
out from under me, honestly.

Kevin Griffin: Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

I can't imagine.

Well, I can't imagine I've had
that same situation, but mine

was 15, 15 some years ago.

You just walk in the work one
day and all of a sudden, Hey.

Guess what?

No more job.

You're done today.

And I can relate to that feeling.

Your initial, like next steps
afterwards, you find out you

don't have the job anymore.

You don't have to report.

Tessa Kriesel: Yep.

Kevin Griffin: do you,
what do you do next?

Tessa Kriesel: Yeah.

So good question.

Um, I will tell you, and I think
super excited to be on the podcast

because I've always been someone to
have multi threaded income, like,

and mostly because I just have all
this energy and passion for my work.

So I'm like, Ooh, how do
I get my hands in that?

Or, Ooh, you know, how
do I help with that?

Or find some passion project
that I get pulled into, you know?

Um, but snap was like, so great.

And they had recruited me.

And so I gave them this crazy
salary that I thought I was going

to make going into consulting.

That was my original plan before
starting at snap is I was going to

move into full time consultancy.

I had about six months of clients
that were committed to work with me.

Um, And they came at me kind
of around that time when I was

lining up the clients and I just,
I was like, six months is this.

So 12 months looks like this.

This is what I have to get paid.

Um, and decided to entertain the interview
just due to so many great conversations

and long story short, I'm like working
at snap and had no plan to do it, but

like, it was just such a beautiful salary.

I was so blessed, like,
and so incredibly thankful.

Like I'm saying that with the,
All the humbleness, um, that I

just didn't expect to have happen.

Right.

And so for anyone who's been in
enterprise, they can relate to this.

You've got stock options.

You've got your salary.

You, you have all these silly benefits.

I've got like t shirts and stickers
and books and, you know, um, tech

stuff sitting around my desk right now,
still with ghost logos on a minute.

It almost actually makes me a little
sad, but also like happy, right.

Of like, you just get this nice,
beautiful, cushy situation.

And, um, You know, I got really
cushy and I had another baby.

And so my baby's 18 months old.

Um, I have four kids and, um, you
know, I have just this beautiful

experience to have a child.

And I didn't, you know, dive
into multi threaded income.

I just stuck with my job, took my
maternity leave, have enjoyed my family.

And now I'm like, well, shoot, here I
am as someone who's used to having that.

Um, and now losing, you
know, my only income.

Um, and so, you know, we definitely,
I've been through some self discovery

and things, but, um, it's actually
sort of a, like a wake up, wake up

call almost for me because I did get
so comfortable and didn't realize it.

Like, Whoa, like life can literally
change in like a quick second.

I had no, no idea it was coming.

Kevin Griffin: So is your first step
after losing the job, Oh my gosh, I

need to find a new job or when did you
make the decision to, to not pursue the

job, to pursue your own initiatives?

Tessa Kriesel: Yeah.

Oof.

That's a really good question.

Um, so I am not the kind of person
that is just like instantly like, Okay.

Let's do the next, like, just
do the same thing I was doing.

Right.

Like when something ends, I take that
time to be like, okay, I'm going to let

that, you know, chapter in my life close.

Like I'll, you know, sort of recap on it,
think about it, let it kind of do whatever

it needs to do emotionally and mentally.

Um, and then I start
thinking about like, okay.

Well, if money wasn't an issue or whatever
the situation might be, wasn't an issue.

What, what do I want to do?

Um, and what I truly want to do is like
help more than one company and like really

leveraged my experience and knowledge.

And like, I feel like I'm good at
what I do and like, I want to help

other people be good at what they do.

Um, and so getting a job, yes, I
can still do all that greatness.

Right.

But it's just not the same.

I feel like I can't serve as many
people or help as many people.

Um, I also did this like cool
personality test kind of thing.

Um, it's called the M code
strongly recommend it.

Um, but basically it's like
a motivation assessment tool.

So it has you sort of speak
to a few different things that

have happened in your life.

And as you speak to it, it's essentially
asking you questions to really.

Bring you back to those moments and
then it asks you follow up around

emotions that you had while in kind of
that moment again, you know, like what

motivated you to do this project and
just a variety of different things.

And anyways, came back around that
I'm an achiever, which I kind of knew.

Cause I'm, I'm normally, I
have multi threaded income.

So I feel like I'm just like,
Tessa, what were you thinking?

Um, but I, I realized I'm an achiever.

Right.

And so in my mind, I'm like, Hey,
if I take another job, like that

means working for someone being
kind of tied down to their tactics.

And I think the biggest thing
that I learned out of this

personality test was like, so.

Sort of how this motivation
plays into my day to day.

So I struggle when I get boxed in at a
company because I, I want to achieve and

I want to win and I want to drive results.

Um, and so when I can't and it's
whether it's political or operational

or whatever it might be, um, I really
get demotivated and then I end up in

almost like a depressive state, but
not clinically depressed, just like.

Not motivated by my work.

Um, and so coming back around,
no, it wasn't go get a job.

It was like, Hey, really think
about like, what do I want?

And, and self employment I
think is, is I hope I'm hoping.

And I think I've done it before
and I've succeeded before.

Um, but I think it's going to bring me
the motivation and the, um, achievements

that I need on a daily basis.

Kevin Griffin: I see this continuing
thread, no pun intended with folks like

us, uh, a couple of guests ago, someone
was touching on a similar point that

those of us that are entrepreneurial
spirited make poor employees for

certain, for most types of companies,

Tessa Kriesel: Oh, yes.

Kevin Griffin: simply because we are
trying to just go, go, go, and make The

corporate veil tends to hold us back.

And that's what you were just saying.

It frustrates us and demotivates us.

And sometimes the solution is,
all right, we just got to leave

and we have to go somewhere else.

Tessa Kriesel: But it stinks.

Kevin Griffin: can,

Tessa Kriesel: Cause either your resume
takes the hit or your like career

experience takes the hit, you know?

So fully, fully.

Yeah.

I agree.

Kevin Griffin: And the fun thing is you'll
have companies out there and go, we really

want motivated entrepreneur type people.

And then you, they bring them
in and they just put rules

and regulations and red tape.

All over the process.

So

my gosh, no, that sounds horrible.

Tessa Kriesel: uh, yeah,

Kevin Griffin: you decided
to go out on your own.

How do you, so you decided that yes,
this is going to be a DevRel consultancy.

That's the type of work I want to do.

How do you find that first client?

Tessa Kriesel: Yeah.

Ooh.

Okay.

So that's a good call.

That's a very good question,
but I'm actually going to like

work backwards even more from

Kevin Griffin: All right,
let's work backwards.

It's

Tessa Kriesel: last time that
I was a consultant, I was

successful, but I wasn't.

Reaching the revenue that I feel I need to
reach today and in the place that I'm at.

Right.

And so I knew that I couldn't
approach consultancy, uh, in the

same way that I had in the past.

I knew that I needed to, um,
be pretty focused and start

to figure out who that was.

Um, and so thankfully, um, kind of
brought together sort of my own ideas

and, and, and working through those
ideas kind of processed, like how,

how is that going to work, how is this
going to work in terms of services

and opportunities and really just.

Um, I caught myself in kind of like
almost a depressed state, um, because

it felt super overwhelming one day.

I'd be like, yes, this is
going to be my service.

This is who I want to go after.

And just felt like I knew it.

And then it was like, shoot,
is that really going to work?

Um, and so.

Thankfully decided to hire
an executive coach because I

really felt like I was spinning.

And so I didn't necessarily like dive in.

It was like, how am I,
am I going to do this?

And how do I do it?

Right.

Uh, and so bringing in that executive
coach, uh, the main thing that I

really wanted to do was build sort
of that educational community, right?

We've seen it spin up a lot since
COVID, um, teach people what, you

know, I'm on a great newsletter.

That's like, um, tell people
you're smarts or something.

I think it is.

Um, by John Weiss, I believe.

Um, anyways, it's, it's a good one.

Um, but essentially it's,
uh, I wanted to do that.

I just wanted to be like, Oh, courses
and templates and all the things.

Here's how you do DevRel.

Um, and you know, I started running the
numbers and the numbers weren't aligning.

And I was like, well, this can't be true.

I need a different angle.

Um, brought it to my coach and
he's like, no, that's true.

You cannot do that.

And I'm like, okay, turns out
that you have to make money

from people who have money.

Uh, and although.

Funny concept, right?

Uh, and although my peers, uh, make
money and I made decent money, right.

But I didn't make the money that
I would need in my revenue for

my business to reach where I
needed to go with, with my goals.

Um, and so no, I went the executive
coach route and was like, okay,

how am I actually going to do this?

There's

Kevin Griffin: that's why
we're going to title this.

Uh, podcasts, you need to make
money from people with money.

And that's really hard for
folks to understand because.

Yeah.

Look at just normal consumers.

So, uh, if we use buzzwords and
business terms, you have B2B, B2C, B2

something else, um, there's a third one.

I don't remember what it is,

Tessa Kriesel: B2D for developers too.

Kevin Griffin: that's right.

Yeah.

Anything that's not B2B.

Is horrible and awful and you're never
going to make any money off of it

unless you have something that isn't
necessarily selling to this, the, the C.

So the CB and the consumer

Tessa Kriesel: Or it's super special.

Kevin Griffin: yeah, um, like
Snapchat probably was a, it was

a B to C type, um, thing, but you
didn't make your money off the C.

You made your money off the other
avenues that snap would, um,

Put product development into,

Tessa Kriesel: Exactly.

Businesses.

Kevin Griffin: and the businesses.

Tessa Kriesel: Yep.

Kevin Griffin: It's a good
lesson for anyone out there.

If you're thinking about building a tool
or a product and it's like, Oh, this

will really service other developers
or other people like me, sorry,

you're probably not going to make any
money off that venture because first

developers just hate spending money.

They hate.

Being marketed to, they hate
being marketed to in marketing

ways, but you have to be,

Tessa Kriesel: Creative.

Kevin Griffin: you have to have
some strategy and creative about it.

Yeah, that's, that's a good way to put it.

Tessa Kriesel: Yeah.

I agree.

I mean, and we had to like
work through that, right?

Cause like, I was so adamant that I
wanted to work with my peers because

I wanted to help them so deeply.

And he had to be like, Hey,
that's not where the money is.

And I was seeing that on paper that it
was like, well, in order to make the

money I want to make, I'm going to have
to work for a company as a consultant.

Um, and then, you know, sprinkle in
some coaching clients who will be my

peers, but I have to be for, for a
service that provides a value prop.

Right.

And then when looking at sort of
my community or these education,

um, you know, and I think actually
to get into numbers, like Kevin, I

think we talked about before the show
that, you know, maybe some numbers

is sometimes valuable, you know, so
thinking about consultancy, right?

Like I wanted to look at 75
percent had to come from there.

Like I needed to get somewhere
between 13 to 15 K per month.

Um, what I wanted to, right.

To just maintain it and continue
things that I've already committed to.

Um, and so looking at that,
it's like, I needed a big

chunk of that to be consulting.

Of course I can.

I can work with my peers, but as we
worked through and had conversations about

working with my peers, it was like, okay,
but I need to do it from an angle of, can

the company pay me for the service, right?

So my coaching packages are very appealing
for the company, for their hiring manager.

Um, I've got, you know, worksheets
and things that make it really

clear what that value is for
someone to pay me for coaching.

Um, and then my community, I mean, look.

Look at communities around.

I mean, what's the most that
someone will pay for a community?

Yes.

You've see 700 a month for
some crazy, really effective

revenue growth communities.

Right.

But we're talking about
developer relations where it's

already hard to get budget.

It's already hard to advocate for funds.

So I have to like teach people how
to advocate for funds before they

would even come into my community.

Where I want to teach them
how to advocate for funds.

So I realized it just
doesn't fundamentally work.

Right.

Um, and so it just has to come from all
these different places in order to get to

that end place, but also to sort of like
fill that like motivation and, and, um,

yeah, all the things that I want to do.

I still want to work with my peers.

Um,

Kevin Griffin: in addition to the, so you
had given me a laundry list of different

things that you do to, to make up,
um, basically your, your monthly goal.

So before we go into that list,
you, what's your monthly goal based

off of how did you arrive to the
numbers that you, you came up with?

Tessa Kriesel: so my monthly goal for
my business is 18 K my personal goal

financially, I think it was like 13, five.

Um, and that's just based on current
life, current things that we're doing.

There are things we can cancel.

Right.

So, you know, you come into these
situations and it's like, uh, do

I no longer put my child in this
optional childcare that, you know,

is extra and above and beyond, or
do I no longer have someone help me

clean my house or things like that?

Right.

Um, and I've worked really
hard to get where I'm from.

I don't talk about it a bunch, but I'm
from like a small town of 300 people.

I dropped out of college, never
really made it in college and just.

You know, and so for me, I'm
just, I'm proud of where I'm at.

And so I've set this personal goal
to be like, no, let's just keep,

let's keep working really hard to
like achieve the things that you

want and continue the life that I've
had, um, might not be for everybody.

So I just want to caveat that, right.

Um, and then, you know, from that 13
to 18, that was my stretch goal, right?

Of like, how do I get to that 18, 000?

Because then that allows me to have, I
believe, I think it was like two to three

K a month that I can do in donations.

Um, and so I am a big
giving, um, type of a person.

And so I like to make sure that whatever
is sort of accommodated in my financial

life, that I can continue that.

Um, and then on top of it.

I'm no longer working for a
company, so I have to buy insurance,

um, you know, contribute to
retirement, things like that.

And so there's this influx of sort
of necessary funds that need to

happen to be sort of self employed.

Um, so it was me sort of reflecting
on what's my financial life.

Um, what am I missing that I don't get
from an employer, retirement insurance,

um, medic, all the medical costs, right.

Um, any other benefits that were beautiful
that were offered, like a gym membership.

Um, Small, but still existent.

Right.

Um, and then, you know, figuring out
sort of what is that optional thing or

what's that thing I want to keep doing,
or like, what's the thing I wish I could

have been doing that I wasn't doing.

And so, um, some of that was adding
some of the giving in there as well.

Kevin Griffin: This is something I see,
you see from a lot of entrepreneurs

and I don't like using Dave Ramsey
isms, um, because some people have

a hit or miss relationship with Dave
Ramsey, but you know, In every pile

of crap, you have some gold, right?

And one thing that always struck me
about him is he would say, you can

never put more money in a closed palm.

So if you're holding onto your
cash and you're not giving it away

or donating in some way, shape or
form, you're never going to get

more, but if you have an open.

Open hand and you're willing,
willingly giving away some of your

income to those less fortunate, um,
whatever it might be, like you're

more positioned to just receive more.

And,

Tessa Kriesel: I fully believe

Kevin Griffin: cause I'm the same
way we, we give away money to a

variety of different causes and it's,
yeah, it's always helped so much.

Cause it makes you really appreciate
the money that you're bringing in.

Um, I'm with you.

Tessa Kriesel: but it's fun too.

Right?

Like my little stretch goal is
like, Hey, the harder that I

work, the more I get to give.

And I know that not all people
like have that mentality, but it is

something that like, I'm so thankful
is ingrained in my personality that

as long as my children have what
they need, my pets, you know, like

fundamentally everyone around me Good.

Right.

Like, how can I help the world be better?

Um, and just, and do that
in whatever way possible.

So it's like, Hey, yeah, how do
I just work a little harder and

like make a little more money?

And I get to help some new purpose
that I just learned about that.

Like, I just learned about
this homesteader community.

That's next that's near me.

And I'm like, Oh, they
need help with something.

How can I help them?

You know,

Kevin Griffin: What's your favorite
thing that you've given money to?

Tessa Kriesel: Oh, always kids.

So I like to be, um, yeah, my husband
and I, whenever we go on vacation

or go do things like we did Coder
Cruise and we would go to the arcade

and get all the tickets and stuff.

And we'd be like, yeah, we got
all this stuff and that's fun.

Right.

But like, we don't want the like gumballs
and weird prizes that you're going to get.

So like, we'll go find some little
kid that like has minimal tickets or

minimal, you know, chances to play.

And we'll like, just,
just give them the stuff.

Cause it's like the smile on their
face is just absolutely like amazing.

Um, Um, and so I like to
browse my neighborhood group

or our like local city group.

Um, and every once in a while
they'll be like, Oh, I'm trying

to do chores and raise money.

And so I'll just kind of swoop
in and be like, Hey, um, come do,

you know, chores for these people.

But like, I'm just going to pay
for whatever it is, like if you're

going to dance camp or something.

Um, I've like got customized
footballs made cause these, this

kid lost his football at school.

So I got him a football
with his name written on it.

So it's just, it's not always like that.

Thousands of dollars.

Sometimes it's these little tiny
gestures that are more, they're more

emotionally triggering and that's
actually like where I love to spend

the money, but it just depends on
time capacity to put that little bit

of effort into my giving that month.

Kevin Griffin: My Mike, I
love the personalized stuff.

Um, I think one of my favorite
things I've ever done was I had a

friend, his, uh, his puppy died.

And so I did, I didn't
say anything about it.

I just did a,, memorial
donation to humane society.

And it's like, they have a great forum
to sign it up and you give them out.

But one of the things that they do.

Is , , they send a package , to the
person saying, , someone's given, , in

your puppy's name and it's all the
information, which, which is great.

The downside of this, if anyone's
out there thinking is they put

you on a mailing list and they
send you the saddest marketing

Tessa Kriesel: know.

I, I, it is so sad.

I've done that before.

I'm on that too with like, um,
abor, like a local abortion

clinic and not all of that.

Right.

Just, I'm not, not to get anywhere,
but just, you know, when women need

help, it's, it assists with women.

Um, and so I gave.

Funds to just help with
like women's in that way.

Right.

And, but the marketing is legit and I'm
like, Hey, like save money and just email

me so I can give you more money and it
can go to non postage, but it's sad too.

They really get you with it.

They know what they're

Kevin Griffin: they do.

And it's on the envelope.

But like, you'll get the envelope,
like that's the saddest dog

I've ever seen in my life.

And you open it up and it's just
like puppies in cages and stuff.

Oh my gosh.

All right.

I would give you money to
never send me this ever.

Tessa Kriesel: know, right.

It makes me sad.

It's triggering.

Kevin Griffin: Yeah.

All right.

Uh, so that's a fun stuff out of the way.

Let's talk about the various ways that
you make money and maybe go not deep

into any one of them, but let's see.

We've already talked about kind of
consulting and coaching to a degree.

I don't think we need to
go any deeper in those.

let's talk about, some of the
other fringe benefits of being a.

In dev rel, you have
a really good network.

Can you use your network
to expand your net worth?

Tessa Kriesel: Yes.

And you know what?

You can, you definitely can.

Okay.

So I'm gonna get my iPad out.

Cause I really did a
lot of research on this.

Um, you know, so as we like talked
about this, obviously I went through

a whole discovery process to figure
out that I had to do consulting.

Then coaching had to be
kind of the next thing.

And then if I wanted to do this
sort of community, right, that.

Still something I could do, but it just
had to be deprioritized with my time.

So I just have to spend less time
on it, but still something that

maybe I can get little trickles in.

And so that's kind of how I see these
other things of like, I'm going to do

these other activities that are the
main income driving activities, but

then how do I have this tertiary effect?

Right.

And on top of it, I did a
discovery of like, what are,

what's the perks that I have.

Working and going for me.

Right.

Um, you know, and I talked a
little bit before the show, right?

One of it is majorly my network due
to DevRel and developer relations.

And you're outgoing to conferences
and spending time with people

and meeting people online.

And it's a very interconnected role.

Um, and so my network is, is very wide.

And so I'm like, okay, that leads
me into some cool revenue stream

possibilities that I'll mention.

Um, and then the other side of it,
you know, again, something we talked

about is like being technically minded.

I don't really write a lot of
code anymore, but I'm still very

technically minded, um, and look to
build solutions when I have problems.

Um, but having that skillset and also
being, you know, very personable and

really enjoying people and like being,
you know, kind of extroverted with people.

Um, it's also a benefit that like,
it took me a really long time.

Like we talked about a long
time to figure out like.

Hey, that's a really good trait
and not a lot of people have it.

Um, and so in that discovery
process, I was like, okay, cool.

I've got these things going for me.

How can I make more money?

And so here's where I have landed
and I'll speak to sort of how

they've come to fruition as well.

Um, so the first thing that came
to mind was the super fans book.

Have you ever read
super fans by Pat Flynn?

Kevin Griffin: I'm aware of super fans.

I have not read it.

Tessa Kriesel: Oh, it's so good.

Strongly recommended for anyone
who has any form of a personal

brand for any reason at all.

Honestly, like it's truly
valuable for everybody.

Um, and especially if
you work with customers.

So in super fans, it essentially talks
about, you're going to have people

that are going to love you eventually.

Right.

And, and kind of.

Use love with a nice term, right?

They're, they're fans of you.

Um, they like your work, how
you write, whatever it is you're

delivering, how you're sharing.

We see that all the time in tech.

Um, and it's this idea of you've
got this little army of people

and they're ready to advocate for
you because they really like you.

Um, and so how do you leverage them?

And so essentially the first sort
of, um, stream of revenue is to just

really put that to an actual approach.

And so looking at sort of a partner
referral program that would actually

based on People that like Tessa,
um, you know, like Kevin, you and

I like, don't know each other super
well, but you know, the conversations

we've had have been really great.

We've gotten to know each other.

We know what some of our skillsets are.

If I tapped your shoulder or
sent you an email and said, Hey,

I'm rolling out my business.

You know, would you mind sharing anything?

If you meet someone that could find value.

Right.

And because I reached out to you
personally, I'm caught up with you.

How are you doing?

Right.

You're going to be like.

Oh yeah, why not?

I like Tessa.

Of course.

And then now you kind of have this, this
sort of, um, snowball approach, right?

So the book talks about even more stuff
that you can do, really start to harness

this, bring these people together.

We kind of, you know, if you're on the
call and you've been a part of some big

communities or sort of private user groups
or things like that, we all kind of know

how that goes and how that can operate.

But just the first early stages
of just kind of tapping those, um,

uh, Those people in your network
is just so fundamentally simple to

do and, and so incredibly valuable.

So that's the first one is a
run super fans on my own fans.

Kevin Griffin: I've, I've
heard this term multiple ways.

Um, so super fans, um, your, your top
fans and basically find your cheerleaders.

So if you're out there doing something,
who's going to just cheer for you?

. If we were having a different
conversation about just looking for

a job, it kind of goes the same way.

If you had the top fans of super
fans, the folks who will just

help you any way, shape or form.

And it's not a huge involvement.

It's just reposting something
on LinkedIn or on Twitter.

Tessa Kriesel: Just giving,
giving them the tactics to

tell someone about you, right?

Here's the copy.

Here's the, here's the CTA.

Like here's what you could share.

Just enabling them, equipping them.

That's a better word.

Kevin Griffin: And then you let that
network effect Go off because your,

your fans tell people, and they may be a
small percentage of their fans will tell

people and whatever you're looking for.

It's about getting the right
message in front of the right

people at the right time.

And if you don't have any super
fans at all, of course, it's, it's

really difficult, impossible to do,

Tessa Kriesel: but you can

Kevin Griffin: don't need many.

Yeah.

Tessa Kriesel: be great, help people.

And that's how you get super fans.

Kevin Griffin: Yeah.

All right.

Super fans

Tessa Kriesel: Super fans.

So this one, and by the way, coming
to fruition, um, has already come

to fruition many, many times over.

I, um, have two consulting clients
already, which I'm very proud of

just started about a month ago.

Um, and one of them came from
this revenue tactic, um, through

a deep and lovely connection.

Um, so super, super smart to do.

Even if you think you don't have super
fans, you have people that like you,

um, and they'll advocate for you.

So tap them on the shoulder
and just Ask for their help.

Kevin Griffin: People can't buy
if they don't know you're selling.

Tessa Kriesel: exactly, exactly.

Yep, for sure.

Okay.

So this one, so kind of tying
into sort of my network, right?

Like, how can I take my
network and leverage that?

Um, and I let into, and I have not
nailed this one down, but it is one that

I've started researching and I have not
prioritized yet, um, is actually like

looking at like recruiter placement.

Um, because I do have such a
vast network with my peers.

And as I start to work with
companies, I'm going to have that

same Sort of natural connection.

Um, I'm planning to integrate it
into my services, uh, because as a

part of my service, I kind of come in
and we're like, Hey, something's not

working with your developer approach.

And we sort of work through solving that.

And then we create a strategy
of how we're going to fix that.

Um, and then at that point, it's like,
okay, someone has to do the fixing.

Right.

And that's when the company takes over.

I'd love to be able to
use my network and say.

I've got the right person for you
to hire that can now take over.

Um, and so kind of this double whammy
of I'm working with the company, but

I'm able to bring in sort of a recruiter
placement fee alongside with that company.

Um, to bring in the right candidate
and I'm building that strategy.

So not only will I make more money, but
the company is actually going to find more

value because I'm going to can deliver
them the best candidate for that role

that we're building together, essentially.

Um, and then kind of the flip of
that is also the sort of partner.

Referrals from tooling.

Um, and so then oftentimes when I'm
coming and working with clients,

we're talking about, Hey, what is your
documentation platform going to be?

What's your community
platform going to look like?

How do we connect those together?

How do we track metrics?

Um, and so I'm recommending a variety
of different tools and products.

And so I've found my favorite tools
and products throughout my career.

And I've started working with those,
uh, those kinds of products and clients

to set up referral programs so that
I get a cash, um, in one case, 20% Of

the first annual and 5 percent of the
second annual, um, premium for that plan.

Right.

And it's, you know, somewhere between
like a 50 to a hundred K product.

So then that little slice gets sent to me
and I'm already working with the client.

And so it's really sort of this
additive to what I'm already doing.

Um, of course, making sure that the client
gets the best result, no matter what,

but Hey, if I've got products, um, that I
know are tried and true with developers.

And I can align, uh, relationships
with them, then I think

it's a win win all around.

Kevin Griffin: I've seen so many success
stories with affiliates and it seems, you

know, to a degree, a little scummy, but
it's not like you're picking bad products.

You pick good products
that will work for people.

And I've seen success stories where
someone, I'm not going to name names

here, but they went off and wrote.

An article or series of articles and
wrote books and put in links to say, go

look at my resources and the resources
would point to different affiliates

for create a blog as a developer.

And here's a host that we recommend.

And it's an affiliate link.

So I get a kickback if you sign
up for for any plan with them.

Well, He was coming back and reporting, I
make five figures off this affiliate sale.

Like I just put out this book and a couple
of these articles and it just pays for

itself month after month after month.

So it's not out of the idea that
if you have a handful of these and

you have the clout and the network
effect working for you, you don't

necessarily have to do anything at all.

You just sit back and.

And count the money.

Tessa Kriesel: Yeah.

And honestly, I didn't even think about
putting them inside of content pieces.

We talked about it, but it was
because I wanted to teach my tactics.

And now I'm like, wait a minute,
maybe there's another affiliate link

angle with those that are a little bit
more self serve on the payment side.

So see, there's just so much here.

Like when you're doing something and
that's like how my brain thinks is

like, when I'm doing one thing, I'm
like, how can I do multiple things?

Um, okay.

So then,

Kevin Griffin: give you another tip
is when you do content pieces, if

you don't own the content, but maybe
you own the, uh, the gear page or

the resources page, you can always
change the affiliates out later.

So maybe an affiliate link deal ends,
you can replace it with another one.

So if you're getting that greenfield
traffic coming into your resources page,

you can just direct them to the new
affiliate whenever, whenever you need to.

So that.

That money never stops.

It just goes to a different
from a different source.

Tessa Kriesel: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And it's interesting too,
because I write a lot of content.

And so I actually didn't think
about kind of getting that

granular with like the affiliate.

Now I have even yet another
one, Kevin, I already had like

eight or eight to nine, I think.

So now I have another one.

That's so great.

So content creation is
actually the next one.

Um, because

Kevin Griffin: right.

Let's go.

Tessa Kriesel: Yeah.

Like I do that a lot.

Um, I do my own content creation
cause I'm just so passionate about it.

Um, but I do a lot of content
creation for other companies, right.

Who are like, Hey, we want your
thought leadership personally, um, at

our company or that type of content.

Right.

Um, and so isn't as lucrative
as working with a consultant.

Um, but there is a number of people
that I've lined up to write content

with, um, which is a nice one.

And so now I just kind of dropped
more affiliate links in there and

then it's like a double whammy.

Look at us being efficient, maximizing.

Kevin Griffin: For the content creation,
I would imagine that's not the highest.

Value for you.

Um,

Tessa Kriesel: one of the

Kevin Griffin: of your time and energy.

So it also seems like that would
be the, that's the easiest one

to give away to someone else.

So someone does it on your behalf.

You take a little, little
chunk of the change.

Um, and the biggest thing I find At least
that I've heard from others in terms

of content creation is it's difficult
to find knowledgeable people like it's

easy to find someone that goes right,
but someone who knows what they're doing

can write an actually a good article
is a completely different skill set.

Tessa Kriesel: Oh my gosh.

So I have to just say this.

So the other day I saw this
product and it's called Quillabee.

And if we want to put in the show
notes, we can, I can get the link.

Um, they're a pretty new product,
but essentially they go through and

you sort of share your voice and your
vision and what you want to talk about.

And then it goes and does its AI magic
and comes back and gives you like

an outline for like your blog post.

And then if you're like.

Yeah.

Okay.

Adjust, adjust, perfect.

Okay.

I'll do that.

Then it actually writes your blog posts
and then you go through and just sort

of like tweak it, uh, and finalize it.

But it comes from your voice, your
knowledge, and I did it and I was blown

away because if I gave it enough, I
know, but if I gave it enough information

about me, right, um, then it went
through and like pulled all the content.

Right.

And in this product, you could also put.

Um, snippets of copy of your content so
that it would start to learn about you

as a human, so that the content that was
written felt like you had written it.

Um, so it's a friend of mine
that's actually at that product.

So Quillaby, I'll share the link.

Um, kind of being, I'm dropping self,
not self promotion, but other promotion,

because I think that when you think about
this content creation thing, right, if you

are the expert and you have the knowledge,
just like you said, You can even run

with a product like that and start
to just like, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Start creating this content
that you can author.

Um, especially if you have somewhat
of a thought leadership space.

So yeah, look at us.

So we're just really maximizing this.

Kevin Griffin: Now let's do a
callback to an earlier topic

where that is a business that's.

Very much a B2B business because
individuals probably don't want AI to

write in their voice, but a business
that doesn't really say they're in the

business of writing material, they would
very much pay for a service that can

write the 90 percent of it and then save
them time by going in and making changes.

Tessa Kriesel: it's a
starting place for me.

Kevin Griffin: to B.

Tessa Kriesel: Yeah, totally.

But even for me, I'm like, it's so
sucks to hit the paper with blank paper.

And so I'm like, can you just
like get the juices flowing?

And then even if I rip apart the whole
thing, at least it got me started.

And then I got to that beautiful place.

And if it is knowing and figuring
out who I am as, as quick as, as I

noticed that it did, um, I can do
content creation for other people and.

Put barely any work into
it that that's the revenue

streams I got to start nailing.

Okay.

So anyone on the call, if you
want me to write content for you,

Kevin Griffin: But your
information will be in the notes.

People can go look, look you up.

Tessa Kriesel: there you go.

Um, so yeah, so a couple of
those are related to that.

So content creation is sort
of acting like, you know, as

someone at the company, right?

Oftentimes they're looking
for blog content for marketing

or whatever it might be.

Um, sometimes documentation or what have
you, um, kind of other angles there too,

is like that role is sort of what In
my world is like a developer advocate.

So there's also this, Hey, I can
sort of be this developer advocate

or your representation, um, for hire.

And I see this coming into play
more with my clients and this being

sort of an upsell to my clients.

Um, but I could see where it would
come in as just a one and done

service of, Hey, you have a developer
event that's coming up, right?

You want to send someone that.

It builds relationships and is
bubbly and friendly, um, and

loves to hang out with people.

Uh, and I love to do that stuff.

And so, um, it was actually
sparked from a conversation where

someone was like, Oh, I just really
need someone to go represent us.

And I'm like, Bye.

Oh, you do, do you?

Um, and, and it's not always
something that's going to align.

And just like you said, with content
creation, it's not my top income provider.

Um, but it is something that
gets to, to like motivate me.

I love to go hang out with developers.

I get to see the industry trends,
which will speak more to my

client and consulting work.

I'm building my network even greater.

Um, but I'm also getting
paid for it at the same time.

So it kind of has like
this major tertiary effect.

Um, so I still think it's really
valuable, just not way up there

as my main income provider.

Kevin Griffin: Wow.

I've seen it numerous times before
where usually at the bigger like

industry events, someone will pay for.

Um, uh, quote celebrity to just come
and hang out at the booth and just

be a, their person to, to receive.

And then sometimes it's like, Oh, it's
a basketball player or it's a, you know,

this big name in, in tech is coming.

And a lot of times that person
isn't knowledgeable at all about

the company or what the company's

Tessa Kriesel: Right.

Kevin Griffin: And it seems so much more
useful to get someone with the network

and the energy and the personality who can
also talk to talk and, um, you know, That

seems like such a better conversation.

Tessa Kriesel: Yeah.

And, and one thing on that, I will
only do it for products that I love.

And so there's, it's definitely narrowed
down cause I won't just take anyone

because the passion has to be there.

Right.

But when it is a product that I
use in love, the passion is there.

And so air table hit me up.

Um, let's see what else do I got
in my hub spot out said a gradual.

Kidding, but just, you know, there
are a variety of like products, right.

That like, when you love those products,
like we talked about earlier, like those

super fans vibes, um, sending someone
who really is that like power user for

you, it can be incredibly valuable.

Um, so we'll see where that
revenue stream takes me.

Kevin Griffin: Yeah.

Tessa Kriesel: Uh, Yeah.

So I think we had a couple of the
other couple that we had talked

about, um, was like sponsorship,
very similar sentiment, right?

Of like sponsorship of like attending
an event, but then sponsorship of

sort of more of the community work.

Um, so that third thing that I really
wanted to be my main thing, um, which is

that DevRel kind of educational community,
um, having sponsors for that, right?

So if someone can sort of.

Provide a sponsorship.

Their logo can be there.

Their target audience
is DevRel professionals.

Um, if I can create some form of
very valuable sponsorship that is low

effort on my side, but high value for
my end clients of the sponsorships,

um, can that pay for some of my work
to be able to build and spend more

time in that educational community?

Um, and I think that's something that
like, you know, we talked before the

show about kind of just triggering,
trying to get people to sort of

trigger and think through, um, you
know, Different revenue decisions.

And I think that's one
to really think about.

Like if, if you're really passionate
about building that thing for your

peers, how can you supplement that?

Right.

If they're not the audience that have
the dinero, um, who has the dinero?

Right.

And how do you bring that
into what you're doing?

Um, and I think that was one of the
angles where I was like pulling at straws

that I'm like, can I get sponsors for my
DevRel community so I can still do it?

And yes, yes, I can, but I'm still
going to be consulting most of my time.

Uh, yeah.

And

Kevin Griffin: see that from other people.

Um, I famously have talked about
West boss is a great example of that,

where he'll create a course and.

It would normally be a maybe 100
course, 300 course, if you put it out

by himself, but through sponsorship,
he's able to put it up for free.

So everyone gets the
benefit from the content.

And all he really has to do is
say, this course is sponsored by.

X, whoever, not really X.

I meant just like blank.

Um,

Tessa Kriesel: that's funny nowadays.

Kevin Griffin: yeah,

Tessa Kriesel: That's more predictable

Kevin Griffin: doesn't pay for stuff.

Tessa Kriesel: and that's,
and that's more predictable.

Right.

So instead of rolling out a
course and being like, Oh, can

I attract a thousand users?

Gosh, how hard is that marketing?

Can I attract one?

Right.

And it's my sponsorship.

So that's for me, it's
like, that's the lean way.

And I think that, um, was sort of
something that you and I talked about.

And I know we've already been chatting
for so long, but like, that's the

last kind of piece for me that I think
makes my revenue streams even more

impactful is just being incredibly lean.

And that's how he works it right.

Of, I know I have to market a whole
bunch if I roll it out to consumers.

Well, if I roll it out to a business,
I don't have to market it as much.

And so how do you find those lean
ways of getting to that revenue

stream the least amount of work.

Kevin Griffin: So I think we've
talked about at least a dozen or

so different avenues or threads of
income, and that seems like a lot

for one person, at least in my mind.

How, how do you manage all those
different threads going at the

same time and maintain your sanity?

Tessa Kriesel: Yeah, definitely lean, but
I think, you know, how I went about it

was like, I made this list because each
thing came about because of a first thing.

Right.

So when I thought about serving
clients in a consulting realm,

I also thought about, okay.

Where are these other places
I can make money from?

Right.

And so this is actually where sort of
the referral fee and, um, kind of idea

of like selling these products that
are going to get used by them came

about, um, is that I ended up getting
one of these products is my platform

product for my community platform.

Um, and they were like, Hey, yeah,
we know you're doing consulting.

So like, here's what we offer you.

And I'm like, didn't think about this.

Right.

And so as I did it, each of these
additional revenue streams are just

tertiary to my main revenue stream.

Right.

So as I think about consulting,
my focus is serving that client

and that consulting gig, and I've
got efficiency everywhere I can.

I've started building out processes.

I've got templates.

I've got, you know, this
is how we do things.

Here's meeting agendas already for
the same kind of discovery meetings.

I'll do with all my clients.

Um, efficiency is how I do it, but on top
of that, they're all sort of additions.

And so as I'm working with
clients, I've made it so just.

Simple and built in that.

It's like, Oh, if you're a client
and you want me to create content,

cool here, I'll just add this right.

Or this is another feature.

Or it's like, this is if the conversation
isn't a sales pitch, that's going

the direction towards consulting.

Oh, but you have these other goals.

Cool.

Well, I can still help you with
some of these other revenue streams.

Um, and so I think I needed to be very
cognizant about the value that each of the

revenue streams would, would produce how
I double, triple, quadruple dip with that.

Each of the situations, um, and
then at which I would pick up

one and do on its own, right?

Like, do I go represent a company as
a developer advocate or as someone

who's hanging out at the booth, right?

Yes, but likely only if I love the
product because then I know the product.

So I'm actually an expert.

Or they're a client, right?

And so it's sort of this making
sure that everything is there.

Um, you know, we talked about how I have
four kids and like, I live on a farm, so

I've got lots of chores and, um, you know,
life is super busy, but there is this

beautiful thing called the Ivy Lee method.

If anyone hasn't heard of
it, strongly recommend it.

Um, it keeps you laser focused
and it's really interesting to me.

Um, when you take a step back
and really look at your day.

How much time you have in your day,
what you want to get done with your day.

Um, and staying focused to that,
it really just changes everything.

And so I try to use the Ivy Lee method.

Um, I'll show kind of the blank version
of, I've got this little pad on my desk

that, um, has each day of the week.

And on each day of the week, you're
supposed to have, or kind of each

day, you're supposed to have six.

Things that you're going to get
done and each thing should take you

less than an hour to get them done.

Cause we know there's always emails
and messages and all the things, right?

Um, and so the Ivy Lee method, it
just helps keep you focused, right?

So if I start to lean away from what I'm
supposed to be working on, cause right now

I'm working on a client or I'm prepping
for a coaching call or what have you.

Um, I, I can look back on Ivy Lee and
it's like, Hey, no, you're supposed to get

this done because you put them in order.

So you get one thing done at a time,
check them off, move to the next thing.

Um, It's wild just writing down the
six things you want to get done and

how much more effective you can be.

So strongly recommend looking at sort
of lean processes, methodology, Ivy Lee

method, and anything where you're like.

Double, triple, quadruple dipping so that
you're only doing that work the one time.

That's the only way I do it
is by being uber organized.

Kevin Griffin: big benefit.

I think of that process.

And I think you've seen a lot of other
complimentary processes is that you

have to take a task and you have to
break it down into doable chunks.

And

Tessa Kriesel: Which is not

Kevin Griffin: easy for.

Yeah, for for developers or technologists
in general, like we'll look at a problem.

Go.

Oh, that's that's two weeks worth of work.

All right.

Well, it's not two weeks on just one task.

Let's break it up in the individual tasks.

And now you realize, okay,
one task is going to take.

20 minutes, but then the next task will
take 20 minutes and so on and so on.

And, uh, what, what did they say?

How do you eat an elephant
one bite at a time?

And it's really breaking it up into.

The small doable chunks.

And I know it's been hard.

It's hard for me to break things
up into two smaller tasks.

I just felt overwhelmed sometimes with
a big, I have to get this big task done.

It's going to take me two weeks to
do it and go through that exercise

of just cutting it up and realizing,
Oh, just do this little thing.

Then that little thing,
then so on and so on.

And eventually you're done and it feels
great to finally get to that point.

Tessa Kriesel: Yes, I agree.

Like.

The way that I look at, at it.

And the biggest trick for me is
like, which each of those things,

it's like a two week thing.

Like, how do you create a roadmap
for that two week thing then?

Or if it's a one week thing, how do
you turn it into like an hourly thing?

And by doing that as a roadmap, right.

So I'll work backwards and I'll be
like, Hey, here's the end objective.

What do I need to do to
get to that end objective?

And I'll kind of milestone it out.

I know these are like natural
sort of habits that I have for me

and I'm very thankful for them.

Um, but I think that sometimes it's really
hard to do that, but when you can sort of.

See those chunks, find that
roadmap, break them up into

milestones, start to see the time.

And you're like, Oh, okay.

It's kind of like when we're
making a blog outline, right?

Like what are sort of those like headers?

What's the points we want to speak to?

What are we trying to draw attention to?

Right.

It's just, we just got
to break it all down.

Not easy to do

Kevin Griffin: The.

Last topic I want to talk about for
We've been talking for almost an hour.

It's amazing.

Uh, you mentioned that just early in
your process, you hired a business coach.

And I typically hear people
hiring the business coach

much later in their process.

It's you get to the epiphany is
like, I should talk to someone.

What first, what caused you to
reach out to the business coach

this early in your process?

Yeah.

Tessa Kriesel: I think that I went
through a little bit of darkness.

Um, and I, I will explain that
darkness and just an emotional place.

Um, I think.

Whenever I was inside of a role
and I sort of envisioned, how would

I build out my DevRel business?

How would I serve DevRel as a consultant?

It's just kind of this vision of,
of being self employed, right?

We all sort of have that dream
of what if I didn't have a job?

What, what would I do?

Um, and so I knew kind of what I wanted
to do, but for whatever reason, when I

started getting into it and I started
planning it, I just, I just kept second

guessing every decision that I had
spent years thinking about, right?

And so imposter syndrome.

Yeah.

Like imposter syndrome
really came in pretty deep.

Um, I started seeing that people
who were also DevRel consultants and

have been doing it for years, we're
starting to market a little bit.

And so I was like, Oh, if good people
are marketing, is there not work?

And so I started to second
guess whether there was work.

It just like a, uh, a snowball effect
of just toxic fear and self doubt.

Um, and.

And when I, I started feeling that and
started working through, it was just

like a, I think a reflection point of
like, Nope, I need to make sure that

someone else is going to tell me or
reassure me that I'm on the right path.

And I knew, um, you know, with
that first kind of big thing that I

was like, this doesn't feel right.

I can't make the revenue that I need.

I need to talk to someone about this
because I'm in this dark place of

like, this is what I want to do, even
though the back of my mind saying.

You can't do this, Tessa.

Um, and so I think, you know, I'm
thankful for the fact that like, I was

able to self identify, but, um, yeah, I
think it is kind of an uncommon thing,

but I think, you know, the more that.

Well, let me just take a step back.

Like why not, right?

Why not ask someone how they do something?

Someone who has years
and years of experience.

I mean, the person who is my
coach, I, I personally know.

And so that's a really great bonus.

Um, you know, but I think.

It's someone who's pushed me and,
and pushed and challenged me.

Right.

Like has given me the hard feedback
of like, if you want to do that next

thing, you got to do this other thing.

And so I think in that sort of
emotion and dark space, I was like,

there's a glimmer of hope here and
that glimmer of hope knows that I

need help to get out of this and to
make sure that I'm on the right path.

Um, so yeah,

Kevin Griffin: You
already kind of answered.

My next question was, how did
you find your business coach?

But you already had a connection
to someone because I think this

is probably the biggest reason
folks don't get a business coach

early enough in their process.

And I know I haven't, I have, I
have friends I trust immensely in

business, um, but not a coach per
se, but there's a lot of fake.

Coaches out there who talk a
big game, but don't deliver or

they have bad or subpar advice.

Um, it's, I always thought
that's a hard way to go and you

either have two extremes, right?

You have the bad, the bad and cheap, and
then you have the good and outrageously

expensive, totally worth their value.

But

Tessa Kriesel: Yeah.

Kevin Griffin: also I imagine
someone early in their career,

let's let's say they lost their job.

They might not have the funds to
pay for the expensive business

coach, um, out of the gate.

Tessa Kriesel: Which
I don't myself either.

I'm working on my severance.

You know, I mean, we
had a little bit, right.

We've had some money saved and
whatever, but like, I didn't either.

And when my husband knew how much I
was paying, he was like, Oh my gosh.

So just like for anyone listening,
I pay a thousand dollars a session.

So it is not cheap, but here's the thing.

Like I was looking at basically
starting in this like depressive

state of like, Oh, what am I doing?

I don't have clarity.

And in a matter of like, Four sessions.

I now have immense clarity.

I've able to written my clear messaging
for my very targeted micro segment

audience that I'm going after.

I know who my audience is.

I know how to go about them.

I know what my services are going to be.

Um, and the nice thing about
it is that I think all of us

struggle from imposter syndrome.

I personally do a lot myself and
just having someone to be like.

Yes, no, yes, no.

And guide you.

Right.

And the thing about my coach is that
he's so good at like, just giving me

this little glimmer of something and
letting me find the rest of myself.

And wow, is that rewarding?

Because I feel like I found it,
even though my coach is actually

the one that guided me to it.

Um, and so, yeah, so if there's
one thing, if you don't mind, I

would love to just drop Cabo press.

com or the event name Cabo press.

So Cabo is in Cabo, San Lucas, Mexico,
um, and press, uh, and so that's an event.

It's actually put on, um, by my coach and
that event is where he brings together.

Entrepreneurs are people who are sort
of like minded with anyone who might

be listening, multiple revenue streams,
probably doing your own sort of thing.

Um, all the sessions are in a pool.

It's very awesome.

You are partnered up with people.

So you go to lunch with the same
group of people every day, and

you all talk about your business.

You talk about your struggles, your.

All the things that are going
well, what's not going well,

and you all help each other.

And then dinner has a different
tactic and approach each time.

Um, and in between there's
sort of this social free time.

And so you get to talk about
your business with other people.

So if you're sort of gun shy about
coaching or you don't know how to

get started, uh, take it from me.

Cabo press is an incredibly effective
event, um, where you can sort of

dabble and put your toes into the
coaching pool with your peers, with

other business owners like you, um,
so that might be a fun angle to try.

Kevin Griffin: If people don't realize
like small, small business, like

bootstrapped business owners run
the best conferences because they

are literally like 20 hours of just
networking and enjoying the presence

of other people and turns out.

You are having fun.

You're relaxed, but you're also getting
immense value from the time spent.

I have I have a collection of friends.

I haven't been the copper press.

I've wanted to go and we should talk
about this after we hit stop because I

have friends related to that that event.

Um, I didn't realize it till now,
but I do a yearly gathering with the

about a dozen different bootstrapped,
um, business owners who are friends

of mine, and it's three days of
exhausting just, uh, talking about our

businesses and giving each other ideas.

And then we go off into corners
and we have side conversations.

It's just go, go, go.

And it's not like a developer conference
like a developer conference is go, go, go.

And you're like, Oh, I
learned something new.

I met some new people.

That was fun.

At the end of a bootstrap entrepreneur
get together, it's like, Oh my gosh,

I just need three days to just go
work on everything that I've, I've

done during this, this conference,

Tessa Kriesel: Don't go
home after those events.

Just plan your work vacation.

That's going to be in an Airbnb in
the mountains where no one can come

and bug you and knock it all out.

Cause yes.

And your brain is also mush
afterwards too, because you're like

mind numb, but also so much do.

Yes, exactly.

That's awesome.

Well, I would love to hear more
about that too, because that,

that could be very valuable.

Kevin Griffin: we, so to tell you the
value you get out of this, we did one and

a friend of mine who was a contractor was
complaining that he had a contract he

needed to raise his rate on, but he was.

He didn't want to write the letter because
he had been working with him for so long.

He was friends with him to the
point where I got up and I wrote

the letter for him and everyone
watched me write the letter and it

was asking for like a 30, 40 percent
increase in what he was getting paid.

And I said, here, just send this.

And the, he sent it the next
day, the The client approved it.

And so we got him a 40 percent
increase in his rate, maybe more.

If I, like, we just out asked for an
outrageous amount of money for him.

And so like

Tessa Kriesel: it just takes someone

Kevin Griffin: 20 minutes.

Tessa Kriesel: Yeah.

Like someone else to just do it for you.

Cause it's, you're too
emotionally tied to it.

Or you're trying to build an educational
community as your main revenue stream.

And someone's trying to tell
you, you shouldn't do it.

You know, it's just, you just need those
other people to be like, Hey, let me tell

you what you're not seeing because you're
too passionate about what you're doing.

Yeah.

Kevin Griffin: Tessa, you and I get
along way better than, than I think I

even realized before this conversation.

Tessa Kriesel: Yeah.

We have, we haven't gotten to
like super nerd out though.

So this has been so fun.

Kevin Griffin: All right.

But we're at the top of the hour.

I, we need to nerd out some
more later, but I think we're

going to wrap things up for now.

Um, Tessa, any just last words
to anyone out there listening

who wants to be just like you?

Tessa Kriesel: Yeah.

Oh, that's sweet.

Well, if you want to be just like
me, that makes my heart so happy.

And if you want to be just like me, you
need to help like unconditionally help

other people, because that is truly
how I've gotten to where I'm at is like

unconditionally giving both my time,
my financial energy and all the things.

Right.

So that's a number one, I think.

First thing I would say, um, second
thing, if you want any advice from me,

I'm always happy to answer questions
as long as we do it publicly so that

everyone else can benefit from it as well.

So you can find me on Twitter,
LinkedIn at me, let's do it in public.

Then the whole world can benefit
from our beautiful conversation.

Um, but if you want to pay me for my
services, um, I am at Tessa crystal.

com.

Or my business is built for dot
dev, which I am like super pumped

to get that branding out there.

Cause it's like built for
developers, but it's a dev domain.

So, um, I'm having a lot of fun
with my branding if you can't tell.

Um, but yeah, I think
that's, that's it for me.

Kevin Griffin: Excellent.

Well, Tessa, thank you so much for
hanging out with us today and hopefully

everyone out there picked out.

Something that's going
to be useful to them.

I know I have a thousand notes I need
to go back through, but we'll definitely

have you back in the future, Tessa.

Cause I think there's a thousand
more things we can talk about,

Tessa Kriesel: yeah.

Let's see.

Let's see how this hypothesis
comes to fruition, right?

Six to 12 months.

Where am I at?

And what things are actually serving me?

Time will tell.

Kevin Griffin: And we'll
do it from a swimming pool

Tessa Kriesel: Oh yeah, let's do

Kevin Griffin: uh, yeah.

All right.

Tessa Kriesel: We'll do it at Cabo
Press if we both go to Cabo Press.

Kevin Griffin: Okay.

Tessa Kriesel: All right.

Kevin Griffin: All right, Tessa.

Thank you so much, everyone else.

We'll see you all next time.

You've been listening to the
multi threaded income podcast.

I really hope that this podcast
has been useful for you.

If it has, please take a moment to leave a
review wherever you get your podcast from.

And don't forget the
conversation doesn't stop here.

Join us on our discord at mti.

to slash discord.

I've been your host Kevin Griffin
and we'll see you next week.

Cha ching!