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Welcome to The Foster Friendly Podcast. We’re bringing foster care closer to home by sharing stories from the front lines. We're talking with former foster youth, foster parents and others who are finding unique and powerful ways to dramatically improve the experiences and outcomes for kids in foster care.
The Foster Friendly podcast is brought to you by America’s Kids Belong, a nonprofit that helps kids in foster care find belonging in both family and community.
Travis (00:01.07)
Hey, welcome to another episode of the Foster Friendly Podcast. I'm your host, Travis Fongsness, joined by my co-host, Courtney Williams. Today we're really excited to have on our guest Court Corey McKinney, who is far more than just a professional speaker. He's an influential thought leader in the realms of peer pressure and bullying. He's a rich portfolio that includes being an award-winning author, a mentor at the esteemed Steve Harvey mentoring camp.
Corey McKinney (00:12.738)
Mm-hmm.
Corey McKinney (00:25.484)
Okay.
Travis (00:28.512)
A veteran basketball official with two decades of experience, a former Division I basketball player, and a former foster parent. Corey's purpose is to decr decrease gun violence, negative peer pressure, and bullying all over the world. He wants to spread his message to go the extra mile for others to spread positivity in the sometimes dark world we live in, which often it can feel that way. So really, really grateful to have you on today, Corey.
Courtney (00:28.725)
A veteran basketball official with two decades of experience, a former Division One basketball player, and a former Fox McCann. His purpose is to decre decrease gun violence, negative peer pressure, and bullying all over the world. He wants to spread his message to go the extra mile for others to spread positivity in the sometimes dark world we live in.
So really, really grateful to have you on today, Corey. Thank you, yeah. Thank you to you guys for everything that you do. I really, really appreciate that. Well before we get more into the interview with you, I just happen
Corey McKinney (00:56.878)
Thank you. I'm glad you guys brought me on and I'm thankful for you guys for everything that you do. I really, really appreciate that.
Travis (01:03.694)
Thank you. Well, before we get more into the interview with you, I just have to know, with your basketball background, just being a D one player and then all your offici official officiating through the year, what years what w what are some of the favorite things or life story life moments, lessons about basketball? Like what is it about basketball that really you love?
Courtney (01:09.593)
team as the E one player and then all your offici official officiating for the year. What years what what are some of the favorite things or life story life moments, lessons about basketball? Like what is it about basketball that really you love?
Corey McKinney (01:26.174)
You know, it's just the teamwork, the camaraderie with the guys in the locker room, all the practices and the hard work you have to put in. There's so much related to life about sports, like, know, for us practicing. People don't see that part. They don't see the hard work part that you put in, the day-to-day. They just see the games and the highlight parts of it. But it's a lot of work. It's a lot of adversity that you face, and life is the same way. You're to face adversity. And sports just kind of teach you.
how to deal with those things and how to come back from setbacks and to push hard. And once you achieve a certain goal or dream, it's all worth it at that point in time.
Courtney (01:54.297)
How to deal with those things and how to come back from sit bags and push on and once you just achieve a certain goal or dream is all what you have. Hmm. Yeah. And it's funny when just reading I I did read your book, Foster Dad, and just reading listening through Travis reading your short little bio, you have quite the history and a lot of fun stuff you've got to do in your life. but share a bit more about your own upbringing.
Travis (02:05.325)
So true.
Courtney (02:21.856)
And how that has impacted your experiences and led you to what you're doing today. Even I know you just came off of some time working at the Steve Harvey camp and being a motivational speaker. Talk to us about those things.
Corey McKinney (02:29.385)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, growing up, I was able to, to luckily run into one of my youth football coaches who was very instrumental into my life. He was one of those guys that was a disciplinarian. He was like hardcore on the seven-year-old kids, but we were outstanding, man. We only lost one game in six years. So I kind of saw the extra mile from him because, know, we used to go to his house and spend the night at his house and go out of town and do all those things. And it was through sports again.
that kind of led me to those things. So my upbringing was, I got a chance to kind of see things and sometimes for young people, if they don't see it, they don't really know they can achieve it. So I was able to see it through him. Growing up, there was a lot of gangs and drugs and violence in my neighborhood. So it was a real tough area. those sports kind of helped me out a lot to get through those tough times as a kid growing up.
Courtney (03:22.676)
Mm. And so what are you doing today in your the day?
Corey McKinney (03:26.119)
So yeah, so now I'm actually a speaker myself. I find myself trying to give back just like you mentioned, the Steve Harvey camp. I just got back from that on Sunday and we bring in hundreds of kids to his ranch down in Georgia that don't have fathers.
Courtney (03:41.89)
Mm-hmm.
Corey McKinney (03:42.951)
They're dealing with single moms just trying to raise them by themselves. So we have a five day camp for them, teaching them about discipline, teaching about structure, about being respectful to women and themselves, and just going for their dreams and goals. So it's a life changing event after those five days those boys have at the ranch.
Courtney (03:59.981)
That's awesome. Yeah. Love that you have that passion to give back in that sense and to pour into boys 'cause it is definitely missing.
Travis (04:00.104)
That's amazing.
Corey McKinney (04:06.663)
Absolutely. And then when somebody poured to you as a youth, you know, I don't even know if I thought about it, but you know, I've been mentoring young people for 30 something years. Like my first job, I was 13 years old and I was a counselor at this camp and the kids were like, they were like 11 and I was only 13. So was barely older than the kids were, but I didn't even realize it at that time that that kind of started my journey as being a mentor, you know, and I've been mentoring young people ever since.
Travis (04:11.394)
Hm.
Travis (04:32.589)
Mm.
Travis (04:36.141)
Very cool. And I mean, all of us, when we look back at our lives, we can think of like who was that person besides my parents or whatever that you just looked up to. you know, and you never forget You never forget their influence on your life and how it might have changed even what you did next. So huge legacy. So yeah, well, that's gonna be really the course we're gonna chart in this conversation. Gonna go more into that and and mentoring and fostering. So let's just get rolling on the next phase. So you had two sons when your wife
Corey McKinney (04:44.742)
Mm-hmm.
Corey McKinney (04:52.207)
Absolutely.
Travis (05:05.591)
first asked you about fostering and then you were reluctant at first and a lot of guys are. A lot of us kind of come in later on onto that. But tell us about that journey of saying yes and whether your fears for your boys proved valid.
Corey McKinney (05:07.471)
Yeah.
Corey McKinney (05:18.597)
Yeah, you know, I was real hesitant when she asked me about fostering. I was like, that was nowhere on my radar to be a foster parent, you know. And I didn't even really know a lot about the foster care system. So, you know, it's like, you don't know what you don't know. And I knew that she wanted to do it, but I didn't know what I was getting into. And as a father, I think I was kind of protective of my two sons. You know, I was thinking kind of in a matter of, you know, what are these kids going to bring into the house or how are they going to affect my two sons or whatever? I just wasn't sure.
Courtney (05:33.205)
I I I didn't know what I was getting into and that's a bother. I think I was kinda protective with my two sons. You know, I didn't I was thinking kinda in a matter of, you know, what are these kids gonna bring into the house or how they're gonna take my two sons or whatever. So I I just wasn't sure and I wasn't clear about it and my heart wasn't in the right space at the time, so it took about two years. Like you could be to ask me to foster it for about two years and I was like, Nah just I I don't want to do any I don't want that smoke, I don't want anything to do with fosters.
Corey McKinney (05:48.056)
and I wasn't clear about it and my heart wasn't in the right space at the time. So it took about two years. Like she continued to ask me to foster it for about two years and I was just like, nah, like this, I don't want to do any, I don't want that smoke. I don't want anything to do with fostering. So her, you know, her being, you know, consistent with it and wanting to try it and I started having a different mindset because when you think about foster kids, they come into the system at no fault of their own.
Courtney (06:03.126)
So her you know, her big, you know, decision when you when you try it, I thought it has a different mindset. Because you when you think about it, both the team is they come into the system of their own. Like this is something that they're doing they didn't find
Corey McKinney (06:14.04)
Like this is something that they didn't do anything to get into foster care system. There's something that happened with the parents or something like that that placed them into the foster care system. So as I started to think about it, I was like, okay, well, wait a minute, I'm the dad of the house. You know, I can, I can take this. can handle this, you know, just bring it on. So I kind of got motivated and once my heart got in the right place and I got locked in on what, what I wanted to do and we did all the classes and paperwork. I was in man. And when I got in there, I'm glad I made that decision.
Courtney (06:17.3)
something that happened with parents something like that, that place can be positive. So as I started to think about it, I was like, okay, well wait, I'm the dad of the house, you know, I can I can take this, I can manage this, you know, just break it wrong. So I kinda got motivated and once my heart got in the right place and I got locked in on what what I wanted to do and did all the classic paperwork. I was in, man, and when got in there I was I I made decision.
So what did that look like for your boys and how did you find f time for them while welcoming other boys into your home?
Corey McKinney (06:48.247)
Yeah. Yeah, it was busy. It was really busy because, you know, my youngest son was playing all the sports, you know, so he's got basketball, football, baseball, and so it was tough to try that.
Courtney (06:51.595)
Yeah.
Travis (06:51.949)
Mm-hmm.
Corey McKinney (07:01.314)
navigate all of that, you know, working and then coming home and then practice and then the kids and homework a lot of times. So it was a lot. I tell people all the time, it's not like an easy job. I mean, you add no more responsibilities, but you can do it, you know, as long as you're focused on it and as long as you're, you know, you have your heart in the right reasons. And we had talked to our sons like prior to anyway, like we really sat down with them to tell them what we was about to do even before we did it. That the kids were coming in and I used to explain to them like, listen, man, if something ever happened to a man, your mom,
I would hope and I would pray that somebody would take care of you guys. So these kids are coming in, they need somebody to help them, they need somebody to kind of fill in the gap for right now, so that's what we're gonna do. We're not gonna discard you guys, we tried to balance it out the best we could, and we took our kids everywhere with us, so it was like, it was just part of the family. So the adjustment on bringing them in, it was okay, it was pretty smooth.
Courtney (07:54.362)
Do you think your boys now would say they wish you guys didn't foster or did they see it as a positive part of their journey and story?
Corey McKinney (08:02.721)
Yeah, I think they would really see it as a positive thing, especially now. My oldest son was a little bit older, so he kind of took it a little bit better from the beginning. Now, my youngest son really did that first. He was probably seven or eight or something like that. So he's kind of like, what are these kids doing here? So he kind of, at the beginning, was kind of like, dad, how long they going to be here? So he had one of those. Because he was smaller, he was young, he just didn't really understand it.
Travis (08:19.308)
Ha ha.
Courtney (08:19.577)
Yeah.
Travis (08:26.061)
Hmm.
Corey McKinney (08:30.143)
But now he's a college graduate, he's working and he really, you know, he's cool with some of the former kids. They still keep in touch and so it turned out actually to be really well with both of my sons.
Travis (08:36.38)
cool.
Travis (08:40.353)
Yeah, I'm sure had a had a tremendous impact. And I mean, I love what you said about, you know, the importance of sitting down with as a whole family and kind of deciding this together and being upfront about that and having them ask questions. And then as Courtney and I've talked to so many people about in our own experiences, that our kids play a vital role as well just in what they offer and the friendships and the the way that they can help the kids in the house kind of even feel feel different or feel
supported in different ways that we as the parents can't give and offer. So very cool.
Corey McKinney (09:11.827)
Yeah, yeah, because we we did, we chose to foster young boys. So we had two sons and I wanted to foster a young girl, but you know, I was just hesitant to cross boundaries with two sons and a guy, you know, so just, I was a little hesitant to do that. So we just said, okay, we're going to do as a family, young boys. So our sons can be like big brothers, you know, so they can take the big brother role or whatever. So that's the way we kind of said what we was going to do before we even started. We always did younger kids.
Boys so they can kind of be you know like younger brothers throughout our two sons
Courtney (09:48.953)
Yeah, and that time didn't come necessarily easy. I again reading through your book and different stories and situations. And one thing as a foster mom and somebody who trains foster parents is
I often get the question about, you know, kind of like you were just saying, you can you can say we're just gonna do young boys or we're just gonna do girls or this age or that age. And so we try to be really realistic. I try to teach people to be really realistic about what you can say yes to so that it lasts. But the reality is sometimes a kiddo might come into your home and it's just not working out. And you might need to call the caseworker and ask them to be moved to another home. And that is
really hard to do as a foster parent. We've had to do it once in our journey. and it still is one of those things that I'm like, I just feel like a failure because of it. But I know that that's not true. can you speak into that situation that I know you've had to do and encourage foster parents who may feel like they're failures when that happens?
Corey McKinney (10:28.286)
Yeah.
Corey McKinney (10:40.865)
Yeah, yeah, you know what's crazy that you mentioned that because I had to do it I think we had to do it twice, but our very first kid was what's that same case? You know what thought and here I am just not wanting to foster for two years I decided to go ahead and do it we signed the papers but take all the classes so I'm ready to go now like I'm fired up like look Let's go. Let's get it and we didn't get a kid in for a long time And I was kind of like hey, what's going on? Like we're ready to go and we didn't get a kid in for like a month or so So I'm like, okay fine. So the very first kid that came in
was a five-year-old young boy, nice kid, know, good kid, but he had some behavioral issues and for some reason he just liked to fight and put his hands on people and I would sit down and talk to him at home like, look man, is anybody bothering you at school or anybody bothering you at aftercare? Because I would come up there and take, you know, on your behalf. And he was like, no. But every time that he got out of school, he would just fight and hit and kick and stuff like that. And I don't know where it was coming from.
Travis (11:27.65)
Mm-hmm.
Corey McKinney (11:35.812)
So, you we tried to work with them. We told the caseworkers and everything, anything that went on, we documented and stuff. And they got to the point at school where they were kind of giving us the meetings and the, we can't continue to have this going on. And then the afterschool care, because we had school-aged boys because of our jobs. So they had to go to school and go to aftercare and they will pick them up from aftercare. Well, they started getting into the fight set, the aftercare, and they were really strict about the no tolerance on hitting and fighting or whatever. And they worked with us best they could.
Courtney (11:48.858)
And then the after school character, because we had school age boys to justify God. Well they had to do eggs or the after character and pick them up to out of care.
Well they started giving us a to advice at the aftercare and they were really strict about the no tolerance on giving advising or whatever and they worked with us as they could. And eventually they came and said that he could no longer come to the after care because of his behavior. Which we didn't have anywhere for him to go after school. So it was one of those situations that you know we had to kinda l allow them to go because we couldn't we didn't have anywhere for him to go. And that just crushed me that it was kinda like, Wait a minute, we're supposed to be covered in these kids and not spending them back and they were
Corey McKinney (12:05.884)
And eventually they came and said that he could no longer come to the aftercare because his behavior, which we didn't have anywhere for him to go after school. So it was one of those situations that, you we had to kind of allow him to go back because we couldn't, we didn't have anywhere for him to go. And that just crushed me. Like it was kind of like, wait a minute, we're supposed to be helping these kids and not sending them back. And that was my first kid, man. I was mentally that bothered me. I'm not even gonna lie to you. I was kind of like hurt because he was actually getting better.
Travis (12:31.671)
Hmm.
Corey McKinney (12:36.035)
And I know the impact on him was our standards and everything that we were training and showing him was working. You know, cause he stayed under me all the time and he was just, when he left my presence, he just had these behavior issues. But I knew in time I could help him turn the corner. But you know, by him having to not being able to go to the aftercare, we had to send him back. And it was just heartbreaking for me, man. Cause I was just like, I felt like a failure. felt like, my God, I'm the worst foster parent ever. You we sent the kid back and we just started. But.
Courtney (13:00.409)
I'm the right party down here. But if it's just sometimes the places are just not for you, if it's okay, it's not hyperface, you know, it's basically involved with that we could vote just but I imagine they'll be kind of like the down a little bit, but that's just kind of what I have to say. Yeah, and strangely the kiddo that we had to say the same thing too
Corey McKinney (13:05.4)
It was just sometimes the placements are just not for you and it's okay, it's not your fault. It's nothing that you did wrong, it was nothing that we did wrong. So it's just a natural feeling to kind of feel like you were disappointed or let down or whatever, but that's just kind of part of it. It happens sometimes.
Courtney (13:26.993)
it was physical. He was really physical with our kids and we tried and we tried and really tried. And, you know, there are situations like that where you do have to look at your your own children, your permanent children, and say, Hey, I have to put their best interest. And, you know, when this kiddo left our home, he went into a home that was on a horse ranch with a older couple that they had no kids. And he just flourished there. I mean, he just didn't do well in our home with younger kids. But he did great in this home with a mom and a dad and ended up being adopted by them and lives on this horse ranch and
Travis (13:47.165)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Corey McKinney (13:49.305)
Yeah. Yeah.
Courtney (13:56.152)
So like our no, even though it was really hard, but it became somebody else's yes. And it was what that kiddo needed was best for him too.
Travis (14:03.021)
Hm.
Corey McKinney (14:03.033)
And you have to think about it like this too, like this whole foster care ecosystem is all about what's best for the kid. You know, so even though that I was mad that he didn't make it in my home, you know, maybe we all had another plan for his life to be with another family and maybe everything worked out. Like you said, in that sense, that kid worked out great. So it was kind of like, okay, well, that just wasn't meant to be. And you have to just kind of take it as that's what it is. Let's move on and continue to do the work that we're doing.
Travis (14:09.548)
Right.
Travis (14:30.093)
Great way to frame that. And, you know, my wife and I, we were foster parents at a group home. And so we had kind of like you, Corey, we had actually up to eight elementary boys at a time. And I would say looking back at that, what we experienced more di I would say differently than some of the others that had different ages were with those boys in particular, was a lot of anger outbursts that were just rage. And, you know, coming to realize too that for them.
and all that they're going through and all the uncertainty that anger is is not a a primary emotions, it's secondary. You know, it's what is under that tends to be things like fear, anxiety. And so I think that is more common, especially for younger boys, that is their processing what is going on, like in my life and story. Am I going home? What about mom and dad? All that. So you kind of just see that.
Courtney (14:56.605)
and all that they're going through and all the uncertainty that anger is is not a a primary emotion, but secondary, you know. What is under that tends to be things like fear, anxiety. And so I think that is more common, especially for younger boys, that's their processing what is going on, like in my life story. Am I going home? What about mom and dad, all kind of the scene.
Corey McKinney (15:03.041)
Thank you.
Corey McKinney (15:10.168)
Thank you.
Corey McKinney (15:20.715)
Yeah, and they have a hard time channeling that that emotions and that anger. They're moving to different places and things like that and they don't know really know who you are yet. Can I trust this guy? Can I trust them and you know maybe missing home and you know and they're young so they really don't know how to chat. We got adults that don't even have to channel their anger itself so. You can imagine.
Courtney (15:20.825)
Yeah, they and they have a hard time channeling like they're to different places and things like that and they don't really know who you are yet. Can I tell you I can't trust you on the shirt, you know, maybe missing home and you know, and they're young, so they don't really don't know how to challenge we have a doctor don't you have to challenge their how to express what what you are what the
Travis (15:23.893)
I yep. Yep.
Travis (15:29.419)
Yeah, sure.
Travis (15:38.413)
Exactly. Or or how to express what what you are f what they're feeling. I I think that's what a lot of it is. Yeah, but you're a hundred percent
Corey McKinney (15:44.11)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it can be a difficult thing sometimes for the kids. That's why you have to be patient sometimes. I think I put that in the book in one of my characteristics of being a good foster parent is patience is one of them. Sometimes you have to just be patient with kids and just let time kind of heal and you just be the best version of yourself to help them along the journey.
Travis (16:04.055)
Great, great tip right there. Well, going back to your book, in your book, Foster Dad, you say that you realized your home was like a temporary rehab facility for the kids. And so your goal was to make sure they were better off when they left than when they came, which I love. What are some imp impactful things you incorporated into your foster parenting to kind of accomplish that goal of this rehab kind of idea?
Corey McKinney (16:13.439)
Yeah.
Corey McKinney (16:17.503)
Yeah.
Corey McKinney (16:25.109)
Yeah, you know, that came from a question that somebody asked me about, how do you not get attached to foster kids when they leave? I would have a hard time letting the kid leave. And I say, you know what, you do get attached. I'm not going to lie to you. Sometimes you get attached to them, especially if they've been in your home for a long time. this is the, that was the answer to that was, that's how I used to psych myself out to think like, you okay, well.
this is like a temporary rehab facility. I'm gonna make sure that they're better when they leave than they came in. So my job is done if they go back to their home or whatever. So I didn't think like, man, they're leaving and it felt so sad or whatever. Even though you still get that feeling. I was just trying to psych myself out and say, this is like a temporary thing or whatever. But what I did was, you know, a lot of structure, a lot of standards. Like, you know, a lot of times the younger kids would, I would give them chores to do and we would have, everybody would have a day to take out the trash and everybody would have a day to.
to clean up and sweep or whatever. So I was letting them kind of get some discipline and get some structure so that they can take that discipline and structure with them as they leave out the home that they may not have had when they came into the home.
Courtney (17:19.055)
So let them kind of get some discipline or get some structure and so that they can take that discipline structure with them as it is alcohol that they may not have the channel. Yeah, that's great. And the structure is one thing that I feel a lot of these kids are lacking when they come into our homes and something we can really help and steal and and like you said, hopefully they continue doing those things when they leave. are there other things that you can think of that you have
Travis (17:31.329)
Yeah.
Courtney (17:47.839)
hope they left your home with maybe a skill or a different mindset.
Corey McKinney (17:53.395)
You know, a lot of times, at one particular time, I was doing some philanthropy work here in Birmingham, Alabama, and I was giving back to, you know, homeless shelters and things like that. So I would take them with me and I would let them pass out gifts on Christmas and things like that. So I was hoping that they could see that this life is about helping others. And that was one main thing that I wanted to put in their hearts that, no matter what your circumstances situation is,
You receive blessings when you help other people. And even though they're in foster care, they're out here helping other people. When they would see the smiles of the people that we're giving the gifts to, I would watch them and just kind of see how they would interact with that. And they would feel so good that they was able to help somebody else out. So that was another way besides the standards and the doing things in a proper manner, you know, the bath times and the homework time and the play time and trying to balance all that out. I also tried to make sure they understood what life was all about, about helping other people.
Courtney (18:46.753)
Mm.
Travis (18:48.845)
It's huge.
Courtney (18:50.123)
Yeah. And tied to that, Corey, what's a message of hope that you hope every boy who came through your doors heard and felt from you?
Corey McKinney (18:59.025)
I just wish that they knew that they were loved and that they wasn't in the system for nothing that they did on their own and that there was people that still cared about them. you know, regardless that I put in your biological father, that I care about you. And you know, it's funny you asked me that because I still keep in touch with some of my former kids, like one of my kids in the story from the beginning who was five pounds, five years old, weighing 23 pounds, and he didn't read, write letters, he didn't know anything.
Travis (19:09.101)
Mm.
Corey McKinney (19:26.445)
So then he lost his mom while he was in custody and his dad was in prison and dad got out of prison and he passed. So I kept in touch with him, he's like my godson. a couple of months ago he graduated high school and I had a chance to kind of go to the graduation. Another one of my former kids, we kept in touch through social media and he was a high school senior last year and he called me to come walk him out on the field for senior night with his adopted new family. So I walked out there on senior night. He's now going to the National Guard.
Travis (19:33.197)
Well.
Courtney (19:49.048)
Hm.
Travis (19:49.651)
awesome.
Courtney (19:53.336)
Now going to the message with Mark, and he sent me a message yesterday or Sunday to have your father's day to me. So I you're not my father.
Corey McKinney (19:55.576)
And he sent me a message yesterday or Sunday and said, happy Father's Day to me. I know you're not my biological father, you've always been there for me and I thank you. And that touched me right there, man, because I was like, I didn't expect for that to come. And he just sent that to me. So that's something that you hope you made a great impact on the kids when they can come back and say something like to you on Father's Day.
Courtney (20:03.353)
Where you've always and I think you know, that and that touched me right there, man, because I was like I didn't expect for that to come on and he just sent that to me, so that's something that, you know, you hope he made a great impact on the kids make you come back and say something like to you about saying why what's the ball with the kids. Yeah. So
Travis (20:20.225)
Wow, what a father's day gift. my gosh. That's amazing. Well, I love what you said too, of just, you know, really defining what really it is to be a foster parent, which is like you said, to to sh to be a safe place, to show them love, to remind them this wasn't your doing. This is a safe place for you to heal and work. And then what happens next is, you know, it's really not in your hands as the foster parent and really not in theirs either. And that's kind of the the the hard part of letting them go. But
Corey McKinney (20:22.169)
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Courtney (20:26.221)
Well, I love what you said too of just, you know, really define what really it is to be a foster parent, which is like you said, the to sh to be a safe place, to show them love, to remind them this wasn't your doing. This is a safe place for you to heal and work and then what happens next is you know it's really not in your hands as a foster parent and really not in theirs either. And that was kind of the the the hard part of letting it go. But well they're there with you, the love and and all that you can share with them. To your point and to what happened shows how much they
Corey McKinney (20:34.723)
Mm-hmm.
Thank
Corey McKinney (20:43.279)
Absolutely.
Travis (20:48.127)
while they're there with you, the love and and all of that that you can share with them, to your point and to what happened, shows how much they meant to you, meant to them for you to do that. And it's amazing.
Corey McKinney (20:52.194)
Oops.
Courtney (20:56.231)
meant to you, meant to them who did you guys. So absolutely. Now, moving on to kind of some teenage things. what advice could you give to a foster parent who really feels exhausted when working with a teen who seems to keep making the wrong choices for women.
Corey McKinney (20:59.449)
Yeah, absolutely.
Travis (21:01.929)
Now, moving on to kind of some teenage things, what advice would you give to a foster parent who really feels exhausted when working with a teen who seems to keep making the wrong choices over and over? What do you think? What would you say to that?
Corey McKinney (21:06.094)
Yeah.
Corey McKinney (21:12.248)
Yeah.
You know, I think communication is key right there, man, because sometimes that happens. And the patience part come back in right there too, where you have to just keep plugging in what you're teaching and keep plugging in what you're trying to get done. Like they don't get it the first time around. Like sometimes the standard has to be set, but the standard has to continue to be set. Like the whole time, you can't just set a standard in the beginning and expect for the kid to get it. Like you have to continue to work. Like it's working this.
So you keep setting that standard over and over and over and you make sure the communication lines are clear and what your expectations are, even though they may not meet it over and over again, sooner or later they get it. Like I had one kid one time that was having some behavior issues out of school and I stayed at the school for those meetings with the principals and stuff and he was acting out or whatever. And I remember going to the school after we had had several meetings and they called me up there and I could hear him like all way down the hall just causing havoc in the classroom.
Courtney (21:48.104)
you know what your expectations are, even though they may not need it over and over again. Sooner or later they get it. Like I had one kid sometimes was had a heavy issues at school. But I was I'd say that to you when I was being disrupted for some he was asking out or whatever. And I remember going to school after we had had several meetings and they called me up there and I could hear him like all the way down the hall causing havoc the classroom.
Corey McKinney (22:12.013)
and I go in there and he gets quiet and they ultimately decided that he couldn't stay at that school. So he went to another school. It was a little bit more, you know, 10 students in each classroom, two teachers or whatever. So was a little bit more manageable and he got there and he still didn't do really well at the beginning. We were still teaching those standards and still trying to get him to do right. And I got another phone call again that he was up there acting out and he was flipping over tables and throwing pencils at the teachers and principal.
And I got on them pretty good that time, because I got up there, because we had been setting those standards for a long time now. And I told him, said, listen, you're not going to, you're going to respect these teachers like you respect me. And if you have any more problems, I did a little trick. I told this teacher, said, listen, I pulled out my cell phone. I said, if he has any more problems at this school, call me. This is my phone number. So I actually gave her, and I did it in front of him. So he saw it. And it was funny because she told me, said, Cory, every time from then on, he would try to get into trouble.
Courtney (22:42.331)
And I told him I said, Listen, you're not gonna we're gonna respect these pieces like you say. And if you have any more problems, I I did a little trick, I told you she dropped it. Listen, I pulled out my cell phone, I said, If he had any more problems than you call my So I actually gave her and I did it in front of him so he saw it. And it was funny because he told me to record every time from then on he would try to get into trouble, I would pull out my phone and cover with the shitty and he would sit down
Corey McKinney (23:09.002)
I would pull out my phone, do I need to call Richard McKinney? And he would sit down and stop and get quiet. So it worked actually, you know, it worked. He thought she was about to call me and he didn't want that. So he actually started getting it. It was so funny because probably about a couple of weeks later, he wasn't having any issues anymore. And he came home and told me one day, he was like, Mr. Coren, this guy in my class today, Jonathan, he was just acting so bad today. And I'm saying to myself, like, who's talking? I didn't tell him who was next.
Courtney (23:12.341)
But he actually started getting it. It was so funny because probably about a couple of weeks later he wasn't having any issues with his life. And he came home and tells me one day, he's like, of course, this guy in my family today tells me he was just acting so bad today. I'm saying to myself, like he'll try to But I was like I was like yeah, I can you do this?
Travis (23:13.569)
Ha ha ha.
Travis (23:36.247)
Ha ha ha.
Corey McKinney (23:37.131)
But I was like, I was like, he was like, yeah, I said, were you good? He said, yeah, I was doing good, but he was just acting bad. He wasn't listening to the teacher, but I did good. And I was just so proud of him though. And I was laughing inside because I was like, this is the dude that's been in trouble all year long. And he's talking about another kid in class, but you know, my heart was just smiling, man, because after that point, he had no more issues the rest of the school year. And he probably was the kid that I was most proud of.
Courtney (23:44.821)
I'd be good. I'd be so proud of him though. And I was laughing inside 'cause was like, Dude, this is the dude that can tell all this stuff.
Travis (23:52.961)
Ha ha.
Travis (24:02.615)
Well.
Corey McKinney (24:06.013)
out of all the kids over the whole eight years because he did the full 360 turn. And that didn't come from just one time trying to teach him or whatever. That was like over and over and over again. So when you got those kids like that, you think that's, you know, it's not working or they keep doing the wrong things, then you just have to just keep adding and keep plugging into what you're trying to teach and eventually they'll get it.
Courtney (24:08.825)
And that that didn't come from him or whatever, that was like over and over and over again. So you got those deals like that that you think that's you know, if that works, you know that keep doing the wrong thing. Yeah. Perseverance.
Travis (24:28.183)
Hmm. Great story.
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (24:34.849)
So, Corey, you say that your purpose is to decrease gun violence, negative peer pressure, and bullying. And bullying is so common in youth who are experiencing foster care. I mean, most of them have experienced it or even are experiencing it when they are experiencing foster care. so what language or tips do you have for foster parents to use with teens or younger kids who are experiencing bullying because of their situation or just in general?
Corey McKinney (25:01.939)
Well, you know, if it's the person that's being bullied, I try to make sure that the kid knows that they're not alone. Because I've seen so many cases where kids have harmed themselves from being bullied. And that just breaks my heart when I see that, man. It's just like, you know, these kids need to know that they're not alone and that you can best help, that you can let somebody know what's going on. You can be honest with me about that. I tell kids who are doing the bullying that you need to stop it, like immediately. Like, look, you have no business bullying anybody. I lost one of my
Travis (25:17.431)
Mm-hmm.
Corey McKinney (25:30.278)
childhood friends and teammates to a bullying situation and I saw it. You know, he bebulleted the guy for three weeks in a row and the guy got tired of it and he ended up shooting him and he lost his life over a bullying incident. So I take it from both perspectives. I try to help out the kids who've been bullied and I also try to teach these kids that are doing the bullying that there's no place for that anywhere, anytime, know, for any type of bullying for anybody.
Travis (25:38.701)
Well. Hmm.
Travis (25:54.03)
Hmm. And it can be so brutal. I mean, it is I mean, and we know these stories, but I I remember, you know, when you hear stories, I mean, bullying is bullying wrong no matter what, whether you're talking about someone's weight, what what whatever it is. But the kids that can just go for the jugular and know, like like saying a comment like your parents didn't want you, or if they know that I mean, some of that type of s identity stuff is like it's unbelievable to have to experience that, you know, things like that. I just how do you
Courtney (25:54.105)
And it can be so real. Yeah.
Corey McKinney (25:57.692)
Yeah.
Courtney (26:00.472)
I remember you know when you hear stories, I mean bullying is bullying wrong no matter what whether they're so much wave, what what whatever it is. Yeah. But the kids that can just go for the jugular and know like like saying a comment like your parents didn't want or you they know that I mean some of that type of identity stuff is like it's unbelievable to have to experience that, you know.
Corey McKinney (26:04.296)
Yeah.
Corey McKinney (26:22.567)
Yeah, that's tough too, see them kids are... Kids can be pretty rough sometimes too, man. They could, like you said, hit you below the belt with some of the words that they say, and those kids take it to heart. They really, really take those things to heart. So I think that's a time where you have to kind of show the love and just, hey, man, don't worry about what they're talking about. We love you. You're a good kid. You have to come back on the softer side and just build them back up because somebody's already broken them down. So that's a good point to try to just...
Travis (26:30.955)
man.
Corey McKinney (26:50.655)
keep their energy and their spirits high so they can continue to thrive and try to be a successful young man or woman.
Courtney (26:56.681)
Hmm. I think also giving them some language to use, you know, when it is around foster care, if somebody's cutting to the jugular about your situation, but help them like put put to voice what the they are experiencing so that they can say that back to somebody. you know, I think a lot of kids just don't understand foster care and there's the ambiguity in it and they're like, I don't know where where I am going. And then when somebody bullies you because of it, it just adds to it and they don't know how to how to respond. So giving them words to
Travis (27:02.007)
Mm. Yeah. Yep.
Corey McKinney (27:13.383)
Yeah.
Travis (27:13.485)
Hmm.
Corey McKinney (27:19.823)
No.
Corey McKinney (27:24.889)
Yeah. And I teach this ICE method for conflict resolution in schools. And I try to make it easy in acronyms for the kids can learn it and they can stop the bullying and whatever. So I have this thing called the ICE method. Well, the ICE stands for ignore. Like sometimes people say stuff and they're just really not worth your time and energy to respond to it. Especially now with social media, like you don't have to respond to every tweet or message that somebody sent out. Some people just not worth your time. Then we move to the C, which is communicate.
Travis (27:25.095)
Mm. Hmm.
Corey McKinney (27:54.477)
So hey, sometimes people do things and they don't even know they hurt your feelings. Go have a conversation with them. You sometimes fights happen because people say, I heard this person said this and this person, like go talk to the person. Have a conversation nicely, time and tone is key when you're communicating. And then the E stands for escalate. Like if it continues, then get somebody else involved to help out with the situation. Like if you're in school, that's when you tell the teacher, the counselor, the AP, the principal, somebody until we get the issue resolved.
It helps out a lot having a framework that they can kind of go by to deal with that kind of stuff.
Courtney (28:28.567)
That's great. Yeah, and easy to remember.
Corey McKinney (28:31.044)
Yeah, absolutely.
Travis (28:31.509)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, well said. Well, as we kind of get this to the home stretch, this been a great conversation. I get to ask you a question that I am very passionate about. So I feel honored to ask this question. But I really just being a guy, a normal guy who came into the space of foster care and the light bulb went on. you know, not before it, but in it and learning and knowing I don't have it all figured out. W I have such a passion for
Corey McKinney (28:36.812)
Thank
Corey McKinney (28:56.174)
Yeah.
Travis (29:01.299)
Other men that maybe are reluctant to join the space or think they don't have anything to offer. Often I think men can feel like, hey, maybe we're not as emotionally in tune, not as nurturing. Therefore, like I'm I'm gonna really suck at this, or I'm not gonna I I will no idea what I'm doing. And I think we realize we have some tremendous things to offer in just being there and loving them the way we can. So I really want to hear from you on this. So
Corey McKinney (29:12.516)
Thank you.
Corey McKinney (29:17.998)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Travis (29:25.747)
A as a foster dad, there's a lot of impact you were able to make, you've shared some of that already, and the amazing stories and and them getting to tell you back how much that was. as many children don't have a healthy male male in their lives, that's just true, the data shows that. Speak to the men listening and w what impacts can they have and whether they're foster parents or not for men?
Corey McKinney (29:27.684)
Mm-hmm.
Corey McKinney (29:35.414)
Yeah.
Corey McKinney (29:48.182)
Yeah, you know, that was actually part of the reason that I even wrote that book. You know, I entirely fostered that because I wrote it from a dad's perspective. I viewed things after that. You know, the first reason was the shortage of homes. Like every time a kid goes back, there's more kids waiting, so there was such a shortage of homes. So was trying to make more people get involved. But the second reason was just that, you know, I didn't even want to foster. I knew it was other men out there that could be kind of like I was. Like, know, man, I'm not going to foster. I don't want to do that.
Courtney (29:48.536)
Yeah, you know, that was actually part of the reason that I even wrote that. I entirely talked about that because I wrote it on a bad perspective. The first reason was destroyed and home. Like every every a kid goes there and work is the short and home, so I was trying to make one people get involved. And the second reason was just better. I knew it but I didn't want to talk to others. I knew it other being out there and sitting kinda like I would. Like, you know what I mean?
Corey McKinney (30:15.05)
or you may be on the fence thinking about it. And that was another reason that I wrote it to try to get people to kind of get over the fence about it. And the third reason was because I saw the impact of having a male figure in these songs with these, especially with those boys, probably girls too as well. But you know how it is sometimes, especially young men, like I said, Courtney can tell the kid, hey, sit down, sit down, sit down. And they don't, have to say it three or four times. And I walk in the room and say, hey, sit down. And they sit right down. So it's like sometimes just having that
that voice or a deeper voice or the presence of whatever makes a huge difference, man, because I saw kids that had behavior issues. And it was funny because I was like the disciplinarian guy, but I was the fun guy too. And they would have to come sit with me when they got into trouble and they hated it. They was kind of like, oh my God, I'm in jail. I got to go sit with George. Like we had a kid one time at church and he went to the children's part, but he was kind of acting out. So they brought him back to us.
Courtney (30:45.165)
that voice or a people's voice when I was president or whatever. Make it he's different, man. But I saw kids that were had behavior issues. And it was funny because I was like the disciplinary guy, but I was the fun guy too. And I was they would have to come sit with these and they got into trouble and they hated it. They was kinda like, my god, towards like we had a kid one time at church and the truth he was kinda acting out so they brought it back to us.
Corey McKinney (31:14.721)
I was like, well, you got to sit next to me now because he was just like, my God, I got to sit next to Corey. But it was so funny because they knew I wasn't going to allow them to misbehave. And they knew that because of that male's presence or whatever. But even having that disciplinary and that male structure, those kids stayed under me. They stayed under me. They need that. So they do need male figures even more than we have now in the foster care world, man. It's huge. If there's any males out there that's even halfway thinking about doing it, do it.
Courtney (31:15.135)
Well, you gotta sit into me now because he was just saying all of allow give you sports. But it was so funny because they knew I wasn't allowed to commit behate. And they knew that because of that male presence or whatever. But you know, even having that disciplinary and their health social, those kids say that on them. They say the meeting like, you know, they need that. But they do need male figures out even more than we have now in the parking lot, man. It's used. Like just any males out there that's even halfway thinking about doing do it. You know, even if you
Corey McKinney (31:44.074)
You know, even if you start out with the respite, where you just do it. I used to call respite like the substitute teaching, where you kind of just do it on the weekends or sometimes whatever. Like just try it, you know, start with the respite and do it on the weekends and see how you like it. And if it goes well, do it full time, but just do something. And even if you don't foster, man, like I tell people all the time, we all can do something. Even though we may not be foster parents, we can do something. There's somebody you can help.
Courtney (31:44.938)
start out with respond when you just do it. I usually call recipe like the substitute deep anytime you just do it the weekends or something or whatever. Like just try it, you know, start with the the rest of it and do it on the weekends and see how you like it. And if it goes well, do it more time or just do something. And even if you don't follow the man, like I tell people all the time.
We all something. Even though we we may not be foster parents, we can do something. There's somebody you can help a as a as a male or woman as well. Their practice, their outfits. There's something you can do for these kids in foster care that you can help them. And your and your your roles and your time and your energy and your wisdom is something that's so easy to be foster care. Yeah. And the mentoring, I mean
Corey McKinney (32:11.007)
as a male or a woman as well. Kids need stuff for back to school. There's haircuts, there's outfits. There's something you can do for these kids in foster care that you can help them. your role and your time and energy and your wisdom is something that is so needed in the foster care world.
Travis (32:28.781)
Great message.
Courtney (32:32.493)
the camp that you work at, but mentoring as a whole, I think, is something that's often overlooked. To be able to come alongside a kid who's in care, a youth who's in care and just pour into them, take them and shoot hoops at them once a week or whatever it might be of just being that that figure, a male presence in their life is huge.
Travis (32:37.045)
Corey McKinney (32:45.321)
Yeah.
Corey McKinney (32:50.207)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it makes a big difference, man. you don't get the... Like I said, like, you know, some of the kids that we had just reached back out to me. He's 18 now and sent me their fathers. They'd message. So what you're doing, the work, you may not see it in real time, but trust me, you know, your impact is there, and they're gonna appreciate it down the line, and you'll get your roses down the line for it. But while you're in it right now, just go full speed with it. Help somebody out. Pour it into somebody else. And I just always feel that...
Travis (33:10.349)
Mm-hmm.
Corey McKinney (33:18.588)
God blesses you when you bless all the people. That's just how I've always thought that. So I just feel like that's the way to go, that's the way to do it. And if you can do that, man, just even a little bit, you can change one life, man, that'll make all the difference in the world.
Courtney (33:20.653)
Yeah.
Travis (33:30.701)
Yeah. Well said.
Courtney (33:31.863)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I enjoyed getting to know you through your book. I really enjoyed communicating with you on the podcast. just again, just your presence and a healthy male presence and the impact that can make. Corey, as we finish this out, how would you finish this sentence? What kids in foster care really need is
Corey McKinney (33:35.454)
Yeah
Corey McKinney (33:40.094)
We're.
Travis (33:44.077)
Mm-hmm.
Corey McKinney (33:55.099)
Love, I would say love. And let them know that they are love and that they are special, they're kind and whatever, and that they're gonna be successful regardless of the situation, what it looks like, what it feels like. You if you show them love, sometimes you can just make it through the rough times, you know, because you have that support and that system, because we all gonna have adversity, we all gonna have things we deal with. But when you got a back end that people love you and you know it, and you can feel that.
then it gives you a little bit more leeway of continuing to be successful in your life, whether it's a young kid, a teenager, or even an adult as well. So I think loving these kids, man, is the ticket to allow them to have some type of freedom and an opportunity to be successful.
Courtney (34:40.088)
Awesome.
Travis (34:40.235)
Well it's about as good of an ending as you can say and and and and a message. That that that is incredible.
Courtney (34:44.261)
Code and ending is equal to fair.
Corey McKinney (34:48.208)
Yeah. So thank you guys again, man. I really enjoyed this, man. Thank you for all that you do as well, man. Like some people take that for granted what you're doing, and I really appreciate that. You know, I look at the podcast too, so I like what you guys are doing. I love what you guys are doing and the ministry you're working with and your hearts. I can tell you guys' hearts are there. That's why I reached out in the beginning. I was like, you know, a line of hearts, you know other people who have good hearts or whatever. So I was like, I got to try to get on and try to talk to these guys, man.
Courtney (34:48.216)
Yeah.
Travis (35:07.085)
Mm-hmm.
That's
Courtney (35:14.409)
Ha.
Corey McKinney (35:15.024)
You know, just share stories and you know, just go from there, man. So thank you guys again for everything that you do. I appreciate it.
Courtney (35:21.491)
And vice versa. Thank you again for your impact. And and again, your time fostering's over, but you're still impacting kids. So I love it.
Travis (35:22.711)
Yeah.
Corey McKinney (35:28.111)
Yeah, absolutely. I've already said it. Absolutely.
Travis (35:29.321)
And inspiring us as well. So thanks for hopping on with us today.
Courtney (35:31.785)
Yeah.