Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The Echoes Podcast dives into real-world questions about community, faith, and human connection. Guided by hosts Marcus Goodyear and Camille Hall-Ortega, each episode explores personal journeys and societal challenges with inspiring guests—from faith leaders and poets to social advocates—whose stories shape our shared experiences. Through conversations with figures like Rev. Ben McBride, who moved his family to East Oakland’s “Kill Zone” to serve his community, or poet Olga Samples Davis, who reflects on the transformative power of language, we bring to light themes of belonging, resilience, and the meaning of home.
From the creators of Echoes Magazine by the H. E. Butt Foundation, The Echoes Podcast continues the magazine's legacy of storytelling that fosters understanding, empathy, and action.
In the wake of the devastating floods across Central Texas, so many parents, educators and leaders have found themselves asking the same question. How do we help our kids cope with something like this? That's why we hosted virtual gatherings to offer space, support, and real tools for navigating trauma and caring well for one another. In this episode, you'll hear from Doctor Jamie Aten, a trauma psychologist who has spent the last twenty years responding to some of the world's hardest disasters.
Camille Hall-Ortega:Jamie isn't just an expert. He's someone who's lived through trauma and helped thousands find their way through it. He's also the cocreator of spiritual first aid, a framework designed to bring emotional and spiritual care to people in crisis. This conversation is full of empathy, wisdom, and incredibly practical guidance, especially for those helping children process grief, fear, and uncertainty. Marcus Goodyear, my co host at the Echoes podcast, hosted this virtual event and led the Q&A from Kerrville on July 10.
Camille Hall-Ortega:What follows is a powerful, heartfelt resource for moments like this and for anyone who wants to respond with compassion and hope. Let's listen in.
Marcus Goodyear:We've had a lot of really good questions in the chat. We've gone ahead and answered some, and then we're going to answer some live now. Before we do that, though, can you very quickly just you've gone over several do's and don'ts for how parents should talk about the event with their kids. Can you just recap those really quick? It seems like limiting media exposure was really key.
Dr. Jamie Aten:Yeah, that's a really important one and we oftentimes don't necessarily realize how much our kids are soaking in. So again, going back to that sponge analogy. So we want to limit our media and that's not just television. That's also our social media. You know, if we're flipping through on our phones to try to limit that.
Dr. Jamie Aten:And also I would even go as far as to say limit that for yourself too. So one of the things I just share transparently whenever I'm engaged with disaster work, I significantly limit my exposure to media. And I've been doing this work in some of the hardest disasters around the world for twenty years and I still limit it. So know that it's okay if you limit your media as well. A couple other things is just to avoid kind of those cliche statements that that's something of, you know, like, you know, it could have been worse or at least, right?
Dr. Jamie Aten:Like stay away from those sorts of phrases. And then if we think about theology, sometimes we want to rely on theological statements that are really just cliches. So a good rule of thumb is if you start to catch the words come out of your mouth as a parent, that sounds like it's something that should be like a country western song or a top blue hit, don't say it. Or if it's catchy enough that it can still fit on a bumper sticker, it's probably lacking any real theology. So just stay away from those sort of phrases like everything happens for a reason.
Marcus Goodyear:Yeah, you know I have to say I do like country music so I get that.
Dr. Jamie Aten:I'm talking just the top tens right?
Marcus Goodyear:Right, One of the questions we got early on was how you mentioned avoiding cliches in talking about death and euphemisms and Gina Rodriguez and Selena Gonzalez both asked, how do you define death simply? Is it like just their body stopped working or what advice can you give us on that front?
Dr. Jamie Aten:That's a great question and it would be really one of the things that your response will differ significantly based on the ages of your children.
Marcus Goodyear:Right.
Dr. Jamie Aten:So right now one of the things that I would encourage you as a parent to think about or as a caregiver is to pause for a moment and to think about how would I talk to my child about these really hard subjects in general in life outside of the context of the disaster. Right? So stop for a moment and just think about, okay, if I weren't on this webinar because of this disaster and if I lost a close loved one, how would I tell my child that? Now the reason why I'm asking you to try to separate it a little bit is that having that conversation is rough. It is hard.
Dr. Jamie Aten:But to be trying to think through as a parent within the context of a disaster makes it even more distressful for you as the parent. So I would start with the basics and ask them of, do you know what happened? And then to be able to tell them that, you know, in just very matter of fact that this person died because of the flood or this person died. Right? So if the child's asking, and then from there to ask them, how do you understand what that means?
Dr. Jamie Aten:Do you know what that means? And to listen to them and then to fill in the gaps from the holes that they may have in their knowledge and awareness.
Marcus Goodyear:Yeah, that's helpful. That's helpful. Especially just what may seem obvious, but starting with thinking about the specific age of your children. We have a lot of camper parents on the call who are about to pick their kids up. Some of them from LLYC, Laity Lodge Youth Camp, which is the camp run by the H.E.Butt Foundation, but other camps as well.
Marcus Goodyear:I know at LLYC campers don't have access to their phones, don't have access to the internet, which is something that is common in camps. In our camp, campers didn't know much at first because of that or even anything really. But as staff started taking days off and a couple of other things, then the word started getting in. There was a crisis counselor on hand to help staff respond to students, but they kept things very high level. What advice would you have for people who are picking up their kids this weekend from camp, whether that's LLYC or somewhere else?
Dr. Jamie Aten:It's a great question. One of the things that I would encourage you is to go into the conversation ready to talk about what has happened. Again, not that you have to know what to say, but just to mentally be prepared. That could be one of the things your children ask about pretty quickly. Or you might even notice that when your child sees you that maybe you start to see them withdrawing again.
Dr. Jamie Aten:Or maybe it's the opposite of, you know, they kind of hug you and you can start to see them tear up. Just mentally prepare yourself for that. Now, overall, likely your child is gonna respond to you, likely the way that you drop them off. Right? So and they're probably gonna respond the way they normally would.
Dr. Jamie Aten:But again, just as parents, the more prepared we are, then that helps us with our reaction. So then then we are in a place to be able to hear them and support them and that we're not both needing support in that moment. So one would be to prepare yourself for that and to kind of just mentally rehearse. So some of you probably have a fair amount of a drive to go pick up your kids from camp. Mentally think about what would that conversation go like?
Dr. Jamie Aten:How how might my child respond? What might I say in that moment? And then when you meet your child, enjoy just seeing them. You know, give them that big hug that you were waiting for. Give them the space to talk about everything that they want to talk about.
Dr. Jamie Aten:So a lot of your kids will hop in that car and they're going to want to just talk to you about all the great things. Give them that space to do it. And then on that drive home, if they start to ask questions about like, hey, did something happen or something happened to camp that there was a counselor there but I don't really understand. You know, if if those types of things start happening or maybe they hear, hey, Billy said this, you know, when I was getting picked up and I don't know what happened. Go ahead and have that conversation but you don't want to, you want to make sure that you're in a place be able to talk about it more deeply when you're able.
Dr. Jamie Aten:So talk to them and address it but then let them know, hey is this the sort of thing that maybe we actually should pull over and let's go to the park and sit outside on the picnic bench and talk about this a little bit more. I noticed you keep asking questions about it, but it also may be that your child's like, hey, I heard something that happened. Yeah, I know what occurred. And then they're like going right on with their story. Then let them just keep going with telling you about camp that week.
Dr. Jamie Aten:But then when you get home, once you're able to get settled in to maybe revisit with them or even a couple of days later just to check-in just to see how they're doing.
Marcus Goodyear:That's good. I love the idea of stopping at a park. There's so many roadside parks along these these roads and they are underused. But it's a great way to just get back out of nature and pause and do some of the grounding things you were talking about earlier. There's another question, Jamie, that I want to ask.
Marcus Goodyear:One of the attendees here had a daughter who went to Mystic in June and her daughter has been two years. She's very young. She's nine. She's taking it hard. She's had trouble sleeping. She's been scared. How can they help without pushing? What would you recommend?
Dr. Jamie Aten:Well, first, I just want to say thank you for for sharing that question and the experience of what your daughter's going through, because your question was also going to help other people. So thank you for that and I'm sorry that you're having to go through that. One of the things that I think right now as a parent in that situation would be knowing that your child is probably going to need a lot of extra support from you. So it's also common to start to see sometimes with these, especially around that age and with sleeping problems. If this hasn't already happened, it may, but I wouldn't be surprised at some point if your child starts kind of like knocking on the door in the middle of the night, maybe even asking if they could sleep in your bed.
Dr. Jamie Aten:I would say that that would be okay to do for a while if that's what they need and to spend that extra time with them at night, trying to also try to help your child to find what are those kind of like normal rhythms before bed that you had established already will help some with that sleep. But if that continues, then I would encourage you to consider seeking out a mental health professional to talk through this and to consider your child might need some of that extra support.
Marcus Goodyear:Thank you. That's such a kind answer. How about children who are pushing back on some of the suggestions you had? Like you offer them routines or you invite them to do things that are fun to try to take their mind off it and bring joy into their life? How you address the kids that are really resistant?
Dr. Jamie Aten:Yeah. Well, one of the things that if I were in the room right now with everybody, if I could be live with people, would actually turn this question. And actually, if you don't mind, Marcus, I'm actually gonna turn this back in the same way I would if I was with you all. So I invite you all to respond here in the chat. As parents, how do you typically help your child when they're resistant?
Dr. Jamie Aten:When you know they're just not feeling it that day and you're trying to get them to do a chore or you're trying to engage them? What are some of the tips that you all as parents have that you could share with others?
Marcus Goodyear:Yeah, I would love to hear from parents on that too.
Dr. Jamie Aten:Yeah, and I can go ahead and give my response too while we're waiting for those to come in. I wasn't doing just the typical psychologist of like, how do you feel about that? But wanted you all to just be able to see that you actually have like I started this whole conversation with you. You have more skills than you realize, right? So again, just thinking about how do we help our children in a regular time.
Dr. Jamie Aten:And that is one of the challenges here and so with that, I think it's really knowing your child, right? Like, so, like, for my family, like humor is something that will, I will often use to engage my kids but also recognizing like, I can tell when my children are like, dad, that's not just a bad dad joke. You're crossing a line. Like, it's getting, you're you're irritating me here, right? So, know that about your child, kind of where that threshold is and and also to know that sometimes your child may not want to do something fun and maybe that's just what they need.
Dr. Jamie Aten:Now, again, if you can't get them out of the house, don't force them. But if they're just like slightly like, I don't really want to go. Well, why don't we just try it for a little while, right? But then if you get going and it's and again, as parents, we've all had this. I mean, think about the times where knew better than to take your child to the grocery shopping at that time of day after they hadn't napped or whatever the situation was and they fall apart, then, you know, sometimes you just gotta call it a day and go back, right?
Dr. Jamie Aten:Same sort of thing here. And so with all of this, know that it's not going to go perfect, that you will make mistakes, but that's okay. Keep trying, keep loving your child. That's what they need.
Marcus Goodyear:That's great. We're coming up on time, but if Jamie, if you're willing, I think we can take a few more questions and keep going and then kind of gauge from how long people stay on. There are a couple more that I'm very interested in. One of them is if if the kids have been insulated from the news and they don't necessarily know what's going on, but their parents are deeply touched. How do you how do you what advice do have for parents whose kids are sensing the parent grief without necessarily knowing where it's coming from?
Dr. Jamie Aten:Yeah, great question. I think there's a way that we can still be very open with our children, but also open in a way that doesn't put what we're going through on them. So if your children are sensing something, it's better to be authentic. Now when I say authentic, it doesn't mean that we have to tell them everything that's going on or all the fears. Just to be totally transparent, like myself, this disaster really hit me hard too, right?
Dr. Jamie Aten:That you know when I think about things as a parent, it's that's it's hard. I'm not telling my children all of the fears or things that are racing through my mind when I started first reading the news story that happened, But I'm letting my children know if they're picking up on something of like there's I'm just having a I'm having a rough day. There's some things going on that I'm I'm I'm struggling, but you know what I'm taking care of it or me and my friend or you know, I'm I've got somebody that I'm I'm talking to and I know I'm having a hard day. You know, you've had hard days. I'm just having one right now but it's nothing you've done.
Dr. Jamie Aten:It's something that I'm working on and as the parent, I've got this, right? Know, so we're taking ownership of it but our kids are highly susceptible to feeling those things even if we've not mentioned it. So, I could I would just be honest that you're struggling or you're having a rough day but that you're working on it and that you'll get better.
Marcus Goodyear:This this one is is a little bit hard. We we have camps still in session, right? There's camps outside of the Guadalupe River area. LLYC is going to be accepting new campers this weekend, And I know that there are camps all over the country that are going to be accepting new campers this weekend. Do you have any specific advice for kids who are about to go to camp or similarly kids who will be maybe going to camp next year?
Dr. Jamie Aten:Yeah, great question. So I want to kind of approach it first from kind of like the parent perspective of like if your child's getting ready to go or or even thinking about going next year. One of the things that I would start with is just to have a conversation with them about the camp experience that they're preparing for in general. Right? So think about what that would normally look like of, do you have your sleeping bag?
Dr. Jamie Aten:Do you have your toothbrush packed? No. Go to your room and I want you actually bring out that backpack and show me that you've got those things packed right? So you're having that kind of conversation with them and then to ask them, again this is going to depend on their age, about how are you feeling about going to camp this year? Right away many of your children with you simply asking that broad open question are going to give you some insight of the if they're actually scared or not scared.
Dr. Jamie Aten:That you'll that oftentimes will start to evoke at least some sort of reaction, or it opens the door for them to start sharing and for you to slowly kinda start leading that conversation toward trying to understand, are they worried about what happened this year at this particular camp and how it, you know, are they worried about, is that going to happen to them, right? But don't open in that large of a statement like right out there. Give them some time to kind of work into it to see where they're at because they may not be.
Marcus Goodyear:Mhm.
Dr. Jamie Aten:But then the other part is to be honest with them. This is I think the hard part as a parent is finding that balance, but to say, Hey, I just want to let you know, even if the child hasn't heard anything, that there was a camp and there were some problems that happened but I want to let you know that the camp that we're sending you to, we've made sure we've talked, you know, we attended a webinar. We've been getting emails from your camp. They've taken all these great things to make sure you have a wonderful experience And like in everything in life, right, that we always try to prepare our kids to let them know that if something happens, that there are loving adults around them who are there to handle it, that they don't have to worry about this, that you as the parent have taken every precaution you can, that you know the camp that you trust has taken every precaution and that it's being addressed.
Marcus Goodyear:Yeah. These things are so hard, Jamie. Hearing, yeah, just some things you said just now gave me pause, but I really appreciate your wisdom. Go ahead.
Dr. Jamie Aten:If I could give you an example from my own life as well. I mentioned about my cancer diagnosis. Well, at the time my daughters were three, six and nine. The hardest conversation I've ever had to have in my life was to tell my three young kids that daddy's got cancer. And it was stage four. I know statistically I'm beating the odds with that. But in that time we didn't know if things were going to be okay. And as a parent, my wife sometimes jokes that I'm pathologically optimistic.
Marcus Goodyear:I love that.
Dr. Jamie Aten:And I just say that I'm optimistic, But anyways, but I attend that route. And so it was so hard for me because I realized I can't just go in and tell them that it's okay. And in fact, when I called to tell my own parents, I actually told them that at least we caught it early. And then I caught myself of like, no we didn't. We actually caught it late.
Dr. Jamie Aten:And so like as we were telling our kids, put out the facts, not in a scary way and only what they needed and said, hey, you know we're doing everything that we can. Dad's got great doctors. You know, God still loves us and we're praying and I'm also doing gonna start these treatments. We don't know if everything's gonna be okay, but we're doing everything that we can and that's something that we are handling. You don't have to take this on.
Dr. Jamie Aten:And then we open up time for our kids to ask questions. And so that's also something important here because sometimes your kids will ask things that you would have never thought about. Like I already mentioned earlier, like don't say that person was sleeping, but your child, if you ask them, do you have questions? They might say if I fall asleep tonight, will I be okay? Right?
Dr. Jamie Aten:So, so give them space to ask questions. More often than not, you know, like one of my kids had just simply said after that difficult cancer conversation was, why do we have strawberry soap in the bathroom now? Right? Like, but the others had some really hard questions that in a million years I would have never guessed they were thinking about had we not created this space for that.
Marcus Goodyear:I do want to be sensitive to time. We have a couple more good questions and we may not be able to get to all these questions here, but we can definitely answer them afterwards via email. One question is, are there any specific Bible stories or spiritual stories versus about God's love that you could share that wouldn't be cliche? That's I think the fear. How do we do we share these things in a way that's authentic and real?
Dr. Jamie Aten:Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think when it comes to all of these interactions, that authenticity part is so important, right? Like, our kids also know when we're being fake about something, right? So, in in these sort of times, what I would encourage you is to think about how have you maybe done this in the past and to take a moment to kind of think through that, You know, that you don't want this to feel suddenly like you're doing something totally strange but to think about, are there other ways that you as a family or you personally as a parent or caregiver have talked to your children about these sort of things. Know, so maybe your child has a favorite scripture or maybe there's a favorite Bible story that they like.
Dr. Jamie Aten:Start there and to look for those kind of elements that you could pull out from that story or use that then to kind of more naturally go into the conversation. But like for instance, it's the sort of thing too. Like it could be like some families listening to this might say, well, our faith is super important but I have a hard time sometimes talking about it with my own kids, right? So then it might be, well, then how have you engaged around faith with your child? And maybe they say, well, whenever we come home from church, my child always has a bunch of questions and that's really easy for me then as a parent to jump in and help. So kind of look for those again, those kind of natural moments. You don't have to force it. Think about how have you done it in the past and how you could do that and apply it now.
Marcus Goodyear:Yeah, I mean, that's that's kind of what I was thinking that I would just take the things that I draw from, which are often the simple things, the Lord's Prayer and thinking about how I pray through that, know, our Father, thinking about God, the Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come here now in my life, in this room, in my house, on this street, on this river, and just kind of unpack the way I pray. Or another scripture that's really important to me is Philippians 4, where Paul says, Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. And do not be anxious about anything. In everything prayer and petition and thanksgiving and present your requests to God.
Marcus Goodyear:And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds. And so for me, there's a lot of words, but I find peace in the words and in reciting the words and in letting the words just sort of do the work for me.
Dr. Jamie Aten:And on top of that too, depending on the age of your child, especially if you have very small children, You know, maybe it's you know, maybe you have a favorite book that every once in while that you is kind of in the cycle that just naturally occurs that's more scripturally based. That would be a natural time to pull that back out again or you know, my kids, we watched a lot of VeggieTales when they were little, right? Like, you know, kind of just looking even some of those types of moments can make it feel a little more natural.
Marcus Goodyear:Yeah, there's the story. If you have really little kids, there's the storybook Bible. And we, the Lodge has had the author of the storybook Bible out quite a bit. She's she's quite good. One of our camps, younger camp, Singing Hills, has used that over the years.
Marcus Goodyear:Shifting a bit to older kids. We've got some who are picking up counselors who've been trying really hard to put a happy face on and give that camp experience to kids when they're just feeling torn up inside. How do we help them come home? Sort of related to that, just how do we help older teens and very young adults in general who might look like they're withdrawing or who are struggling in such a way that we don't know how to check-in with them?
Dr. Jamie Aten:Right. With older kids, it can be difficult in almost the exact opposite way of little kids sometimes, right? That with the little kids, we may be feeling like we wish they would not ask so many questions, but then our teenagers, they stop asking the questions and they withdraw. Right? So again, a lot of the same principles I've talked about tonight, them the space that they need, but keep engaging them.
Dr. Jamie Aten:Keep looking for those opportunities to engage with them. Keep supporting them. And then the other thing too so first, I'm gonna talk about just teenagers in general, and then I'll talk about the camp counselors because I think that's slightly unique aspect there. But for teenagers in general, encouraging them again about what were the things that they normally do for fun and encouraging that now. So one of the things that we often see in times of tragedy is that the things that we do that help keep us well, that promote wellness and we know what we should do when it gets stressful, we stop doing those things.
Dr. Jamie Aten:So sometimes it just takes a friendly reminder. Just even think about like our conversation tonight, Marcus, right? Like there's not a lot of what I've shared that's been groundbreaking, but really just trying to remind everyone of these are some things you're already doing. Here's how to remember how to do that in this unique context. So again, doing the same thing.
Dr. Jamie Aten:One of the things that we have found in some of our research too has been having older kids journal, encouraging them to journal. Maybe they don't feel comfortable having that conversation with mom and dad or a friend even, but journaling can be really therapeutic for children. And in fact, almost anybody who can write, there's been research showing that that can be really helpful for them. So encouraging that is something else. And then the other part is trying to find ways to get them around others, whether that's your family, if it's their friend group, but bringing supports around them.
Dr. Jamie Aten:And then to the camp counselors for those individuals thinking to that a lot of them would be going back to their homes or families or churches that we want to be able to help support them now. But know that oftentimes the impact they may not start to really feel it or be in a place to even really understand how it's impacted them for maybe several days or even weeks. Because oftentimes what happens is it takes a while for us to kind of get our heads around it. And what they've had to do is very similar to what we have to do as whenever we're in a first responder situation which is in some ways like if I go into a disaster zone I know I'm going to have a rough day or rough weeks ahead and I'm just having to kind of separate myself a little bit to do the work that I have to do.
Dr. Jamie Aten:And so but then what happens is then when you finally slow down and you're finally quiet or you're finally out of that situation, that's when you find yourself just being hit hard by the emotions. And so that could happen to some of the camp counselors too of knowing that even though they may be doing great now that I wouldn't be surprised if some a few weeks down the road reach out or maybe you should reach out and check on them. But again, doesn't mean that everyone's going to have that experience but know that we need to provide and just be aware of what they're going through not just when they first get home but even in the weeks, maybe even months to come.
Marcus Goodyear:Yeah. That's that's important. It's one of things I'm trying to do in my own life. I've been I've been in crisis comms mode since since Friday last week, and I'm gonna take a little take a little bit of time tomorrow to try to regroup, like you're saying. I've definitely been trying to manage these things for myself, so I know these counselors are going to feel that as well.
Marcus Goodyear:Really, two more questions that I think I can combine here from Jan and an anonymous person that the kids are going to come back and they're going to have messages on their phones perhaps that are either misinformation or just that we know are going to be upsetting if for no other reason. And some of them might have friends who were really in the thick of it, whether that's at Mystic or La Junta or so many of the camps actually along the Guadalupe that had to be evacuated. That is a form of trauma, just evacuation. How are we going to What is the best way to help these kids deal with this sort of bad news waiting for them on their phones? Should delete the news from their phones? What should we do?
Dr. Jamie Aten:Yeah. I wish we could delete it and that it wouldn't impact our kids. Right?
Marcus Goodyear:Right.
Dr. Jamie Aten:But the reality in that sort of situation is that they're going to find out. So, maybe even if we did delete the text, there's going be new texts that are going to come if they haven't already, or they're going to come across something on social media scrolling that we had hoped that they wouldn't have accidentally stumbled upon. So, in that sort of situation, I mentioned about setting aside time to talk with your child. If you know this is, like, maybe we're talking I'm gonna give an example of of a teenager in this context of the conversation just as an example. But if I were going to go pick up a teen right now from camp, one of the things that I would give them that space to be able to share, you know, how was camp?
Dr. Jamie Aten:But I would keep that phone in my pocket for a little extra time than what I probably normally would to give them a bit of space. And if I know that they've had a friend that was really close to them that was impacted before we like, I'm not just gonna hop in the car with them. I'm gonna find a place, or if I do get in the car, we're gonna go and stop and have, you know, pull over at a restaurant or someplace quiet or but someplace that we could have some quietness and be together. And to let them know, hey, I want to give you back your phone, but before I do, we need to talk about some rough things that have happened. And then again, based on the age of the child, based on what's happened, checking in, I would start again by checking in of, have you heard things?
Dr. Jamie Aten:Because even though we think our children have been maybe fully isolated at camp, there's still a probability that somehow somebody might have picked up on something even if they don't understand. So just have that conversation with them upfront. And then the other part as a parent for us is to also help our children understand that there may be things that you've heard from your friends or there may be things you're gonna see on social media that aren't truthful. If there's anything that pops up on your phone that stresses you, I'm here to talk with you about that. If you're wondering, did this really happen in this way to these people or whatever it might be, I'm here to help you with that.
Dr. Jamie Aten:Right? So we wanna just let them know that we're there. And then also if you start for instance, every once in while there'll be things where I've seen on the news already about how there are some misinformation things that are going out in the world. Well, if we're aware of it, we can hedge some of that off by just talking to our kids of, you may hear this. This is not true.
Dr. Jamie Aten:This is how I know this is true. Right? So again, relying on that that being trustworthy because the more upfront we are, the more our children will turn to us when they really need it. And the more than they'll trust us when they're going through more difficult times.
Marcus Goodyear:Thank you, Jamie. We have we have so many wonderful comments. Todd says this makes a difference. Wants to thank you for what you're doing. Marvin cites Corinthians 16:13. Be on your guard, stand firm in the face, be courageous, be strong. That's a good verse, Marvin. Anne's talking about her 20 year old who's reliving some of her time at camp and how she's trying to listen and validate.
Marcus Goodyear:Thank you all for being here. Before we go, Jamie, do you have something hopeful to take us out on?
Dr. Jamie Aten:Yeah, absolutely. I don't know, Marcus, your word choice, I promise Marcus and I did not set this up ahead of time. But I don't know you can see right over my shoulder here.
Marcus Goodyear:Oh yeah, there you go.
Dr. Jamie Aten:So there's this little kind of placard and it's made of broken tiles and it's actually from a disaster zone and was given to me as a gift where everything you had, you know, the person who gave it to me had described the story about how things had been broken, but out of that beauty they were still able to make something that reminded them of hope and gave that to me. And I just want to encourage you all and just to know that I'm grateful for you and what you're doing as parents. And thank you for each of you for being here tonight. And remember that one last thing. So you may have noticed all the books.
Dr. Jamie Aten:So I'm also a professor and so I am going to give you one final quiz before we go. And I had said there was one thing I hope you would remember and take away if you don't remember anything else. And that was just that your kids at the end of the day just need you to love them, to be their parents and to be who you are and to be authentic. And know that, like I said earlier, that your presence truly does say more than any words.
Marcus Goodyear:Doctor Jamie Aten, thank you so much. This has been encouraging and helpful. And I know that we at the H. E. Butt Foundation will all continue to pray for everybody who is here and everybody who has been impacted. And we covet your prayers as well.
Camille Hall-Ortega:What you just heard was part of our first live conversation with Doctor Jamie Aten, focused on how we help kids cope in the immediate aftermath of trauma, especially something as disorienting and painful as the floods here in Central Texas. But we knew one conversation wouldn't be enough. So a few days later, we hosted another webinar with Doctor Aten, was joined this time by Kent Annan, the host of the Better Samaritans podcast from Christianity Today. They focused on real life questions that parents, teachers, and caregivers may still be carrying.
Camille Hall-Ortega:Questions like, what do I say when my child asks why this happened? What if they're scared to sleep alone? What do I do when I'm still processing my own grief too? This next Q&A opened with a reflection on a simple but meaningful activity, writing a letter to someone who helped them during the crisis. After attendees on the webinar wrote their letters, Kent Annan told them, now cross out that person's name and write your own.
Camille Hall-Ortega:Take a moment to receive for yourself some of the compassion you hoped to give another person. It's a small act to write a letter to someone and it's a simple flip to imagine giving yourself the same level of encouragement. But it opens the door to healing, gratitude, and connection. And it sets the tone for the conversation that follows. Let's return to the conversation.
Marcus Goodyear:I just want to start by highlighting the comment Hillary Commer made in the middle of the letter writing activity, that it was sneaky, but also good, which is what made it work. It's what made it effective. So just to highlight that practice again. I wonder, have you guys found that it matters if you know going into it that you're going to switch it? Do you still write the letters to others and then turn it in your mind and then maybe even give them the letter anyway?
Dr. Jamie Aten:One of the things that we do often encourage, and I'm glad you asked that, is to, if you still have a copy of that, especially if you typed it or maybe be willing to rewrite it, to go ahead and give it to that friend. That there's also a sense of power there, that when we talk about each of these different types of practices, that in many ways they're cultivating different types of rhythms even. And so this kind of practice of compassion writing, it brings us into connection with others. Right? Like through that exercise, first is it reminds you of your friend.
Dr. Jamie Aten:Right? That so there's benefit. And if you give that letter to them, it's bringing you into connection with them. And but then when we start to ask ourselves to turn it inward, we're connecting with ourselves, but we're also connecting with God. Right?
Dr. Jamie Aten:That we're experiencing His love and that compassion for ourselves. And we've done this in different ways, but we found it to be most powerful when we don't reveal all of our cards at once. Because what tends to happen is as soon as somebody gets the hint that it's going to be about self compassion, they start to kind of lock up and they don't even know what to write and they just stare at the page. We realize it's sneaky, but we're doing that out of love. So, have compassion on us.
Marcus Goodyear:Oh, it's sneaky like a game. I didn't mean that to be in any way disparaging of the activity.
Marcus Goodyear:Oh, no. I know. I was just playing back.
Marcus Goodyear:Yeah. I believe the story I'm about to tell you connects everything you've said, but I want to tell the story first. There's been this little viral thing going around locally. A local leader was was talking and they were involved with some journalists and the woman next to him was sharing how her family had lost their home. It was a three generation home. And and the journalist said, What are you going to do?
Marcus Goodyear:And she said, I don't know. We're just sad. And the the local leader, it wasn't an elected official, but somebody in our community who is a leader that we all respect, actually. He said he said, we're over sad. Did you say we're sad? We're over sad. We've got to build back together. And I on the one hand, I understand what that person was trying to do to sort of refocus and stay positive and not get trapped in sadness, which I, I do think is a real risk. I mean, it's a risk I have felt in the last two weeks myself. And yet it bothers me that exchange.
Marcus Goodyear:I'm not quite sure why. And I think it's related to what you guys are sharing here. So I'd be curious, what would you say to that person who is sad and what might you say to that person who just wants us all to be over sad or maybe just wants to be over sad themselves? It's kind of a hard question.
Kent Annan:Yeah, it is a hard question, but we do think that, you know, there's action is in response to disaster. There's a need for action. There's a need for hope, you know? So I think those are the positive things that, you know, you would have been feeling. Also, as we've worked with people all over the world and country and these things, that there's also a need for lament.
Kent Annan:And the lament isn't over in two weeks, you know, and the lament's gonna last for for years. And so that shouldn't be shortchanged either, because I think we rob ourselves of the lament. We can rob ourselves of getting to true hope and to joy and that expression of God caring for us with our loss and loss of history, loss of life, loss of home, you know? So I understand where they're both coming from and say, you know, like whoever's feeling that sadness, you'll keep feeling it and feeling sadness doesn't keep us from action. You know?
Kent Annan:Like, I think we feeling sad doesn't keep us from rebuilding or from having hope for our community or doing what's needed to be done next. So I really think that we can hold these together. Like the Psalms hold these together that have this kind of mourning, and they have a desire for action and change, and they have praise, and that's the full experience of of going through these things. So just encourage everyone to say, like, we're all gonna be impatient in these times, and we're gonna it's gonna be hard to feel the sadness. And for him, he couldn't feel more sadness, but it shouldn't be that that's the case for someone else.
Kent Annan:You know? That if he can take it on, then the other people still should be able to. And all of us are in different places and experience these things in different ways. And so we want to have that grace for each other, knowing we experience them differently in this full range of human emotions.
Marcus Goodyear:Yeah, yeah. That's helpful. It's a very graceful to answer, actually. The other question that I am very curious about is our civic leaders and our church leaders have been under tremendous pressure the last three weeks really. What advice do you have for them to avoid burnout?
Marcus Goodyear:Jamie, you told the story of that pastor with the three phones and it just I was just getting tense thinking about it. But when you are, you know, a small town elected official who's making no money at all for this job you do on the side to go to meetings all day long, really. And suddenly you're on a national stage and criticized in ways that really reflect a confusion about what is even happening on the ground in our community and who's in charge of what. How do you help people like that avoid burnout? Or is there anything we can do other than just send them a letter of compassion?
Dr. Jamie Aten:Well, I think it's, again, going to be kind of a multitude of ways that we can approach this. And one like what you were mentioning, Marcus, that we can also help do things to support our elected officials or our local leaders, whether that's sending a note of encouragement or maybe you're seeing them in the community to be able to share something positive because they're probably not hearing much of that right now. The other thing that we found, like for instance, there was a large study that we did where we would look at some different leaders who had gone through this major disaster. And what we found was that a lot of the leaders felt like they couldn't take time off or that they, you know, I couldn't take a break. Right?
Dr. Jamie Aten:But the ones who tended to fare the best were ones who found other people that would come into their their life even though they couldn't necessarily leave at that time. You know? So I would be encouraging those individuals of, do you have that best friend that you've not seen for a while? Or do you have a colleague that you work really well with that had to move a few years ago? Could they come for the week and just lend a helping hand?
Dr. Jamie Aten:You know, another example of this, World Vision has a really neat program that they've been doing where they've got a group of pastors who've all been through major disasters in the past and now are volunteering. And when a large scale disaster occurs, these same that small group of pastors now go and they walk alongside and help pitch in for the other pastors who are now going through it firsthand themselves. So looking for others that you might be able to bring in and not trying to do it all on your own. So really many of the same principles that we talked about tonight of trying to find those small moments of peace in this calamity, finding moments of restoration and knowing your own limitations.
Marcus Goodyear:Well, thank you all so much. I appreciate the time you've given us over these last few weeks, helping us gather these resources together, hosting these webinars with us and teaching our community so much of what you've learned. And I know that this will be viewed by lots of people. We've already had the first two webinars viewed by so many people, many more than we really expected, which makes me very excited to be part of it and hopeful for the future. And we're deeply grateful for your time.
Dr. Jamie Aten:Thank you.
Camille Hall-Ortega:The Echoes Podcast is written and produced by Marcus Goodyear, Rob Stennett, and me, Camille Hall-Ortega. It's edited by Rob Stennett and Kim Stone. Our executive producers are Patton Dodd and David Rogers. Special thanks to our guests today, doctor Jamie Aten and Kent Annan. This episode marks the end of season one of The Echoes Podcast.
Camille Hall-Ortega:We're so grateful you've listened, shared, and joined us on this journey. We're already beginning work on season two, and we can't wait to share what's next. In addition to The Echoes Podcast, we welcome you to subscribe to Echoes Magazine. You'll receive a beautiful print magazine each quarter, and it's free. You can find a link in our show notes.
Camille Hall-Ortega:The Echoes Podcast and Echoes Magazine are both productions brought to you by the H.E.Butt Foundation. You can learn more about our vision and mission at hebfdn.org.