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In the Hidden Money podcast, you'll learn how you can legally use the tax code to your financial advantage. There’s wealth inside the tax code. Taxes aren’t the enemy.
Most people hate taxes (and pay more than they should). But when you view taxes only as an evil expense, you miss out on legal ways to grow your wealth. Unlock the secrets to saving tax and building wealth with the Hidden Money Podcast! 🎧💰 Hosted by Mike Pine and Kevin Schneider.
Mike Pine: The difference at
Revo is, is we want to be tax
planning partners with our clients.
Not a vendor.
Not just moving numbers.
Moving papers.
Giving you a tax return.
Calling you in January saying,
"Hey, send me your stuff.
I'll send you a tax return and a bill."
We want to change your lives
by utilizing the tax code.
We want to save you a lot of money,
and the tax code's there for it.
Kevin Schneider: We partner with
groups, and we're gonna speak
to one today, Vodyssey, of how
important our partnership is to them.
They have a network of like 2,000
investors, maybe more, maybe 3,000 by now.
And so we wanna be partners with a client
on an individual basis, but Mike and
I as a firm, we wanna be partners with
these groups and partner with you guys.
Mike Pine: Welcome to this week's
episode of our Hidden Money podcast.
Today, we're takingâ¦
We've been taking a lot of different
bets this month, but we're going to
take a different, um, tangent on taxes,
the money hidden in the tax code, and
that's what our show is all about.
But we're going to talk about the
importance of partners, partnership, um,
why we think it's important for us to work
with partners, why we consider ourselves
a partner to our clients versus vendors.
There's a big difference.
So,
All right.
Partners, it's important.
You know, Revo, we're different, in
case you haven't figured that out yet.
Maybe this is your first time joining.
If so, please like and subscribe
and tell your friends about it.
But we're different because we
don't want to be tax preparers.
We're not.
We're notâ¦
We don't even call ourselves
a CPA firm, and we're not aâ¦
Revo is not a licensed CPA
firm in Texas because, um, some
archaic rules that we disagreed
with, so we resigned our license.
Um, but we are CPAs.
The difference at Revo is, is we want
to be tax planning partners with our
clients, not a vendor, not just moving,
moving numbers, moving papers, giving
you a tax return, calling you in January
saying, "Hey, send me your stuff.
I'll send you a tax return and a bill."
We want to change your lives
by utilizing the tax code.
We want to save you a lot of money,
and the tax code's there for it.
Mm.
But we always have the saying
that Kevin and I love, and I,
I don't know who coined this.
I can't take credit for it.
I'm sure I heard it somewhere else.
But youâ¦
There are so many ways to save taxes.
You could go spend a bunch of money
on something, and we hear other CPAs
telling other people, "Buy a new vehicle
every year to, to lower your taxes."
Don't let your tax tail
wag your business dog.
Don't let it, your tax tail wag your
investment dog, and that is one huge
reason why we think it's important
to have good partners to work
with.
Kevin Schneider: Yeah.
And so we don't wanna be
vendors to our clients at all.
We, we want that relationship,
uh, consultation.
But also, we don't wanna be
vendors to other partners' groups.
And what, what I mean by that
is we work with a lot of, um,
education groups because this area
of tax saving, tax strategy is
very underserved in the market.
There's a lot of CPAs
that prep tax returns.
Not many will actually sit down
with a, with the client and walk
them through our weird rules.
Well, we partner with groups, and we're
gonna speak to one today, Vodyssey,
of how important our partnership
is to them, um, because they have a
network of, like, 2,000 investors,
maybe more, maybe 3,000 by now.
Um, but this is all a like-minded group
of short-term real estate owners, and
we are partners with that group because
once a week, we hop on there and say,
"What tax questions you got, Vodyssey?
We're here for you."
And then we-- they ask
pre-submitted questions.
We give free education, webinars.
We are true partners to that
group to where we provide such a
value to the Vodyssey membership.
It's a huge selling point for these oper-
for these owners, um, you know, talk
to Sean of like, "Yeah, if you join my
group, I'm gonna have the best of the
best tax people, and they're gonna be
specifically working with you and our
group and what we're trying to achieve."
And so we wanna be partners with a client
on an individual basis, but Mike and
I as a firm, we wanna be partners with
these groups and partner with you guys.
And we're not just a vendor.
We, you know, we'veâ¦
We get approached for these groups
quite often, and we've been thrown
out some weird numbers of like,
"Hey, you can join my group,
Mike Pine: It was a huge
national group, right?
Big national.
And the way they tried to incentivize
us to pay them was at forty thousand a
Kevin Schneider: Yeah.
And they're like, "Look at all
these leads we'll give you."
And we're like, "We're not lookingâ¦"
Well, I mean, we're looking for leads.
Obviously, we're a business, but we're not
looking to pay to get into these groups.
The valueâ¦
Mike and I per- personally work
these groups, um, and we want to be-
Mike Pine: gonna add value to your group.
Kevin Schneider: You're gonna
add value to your group.
We're adding value to you.
Um, and on top of that, it's just
like, uh, I, I just don't wanna pay
for people to do busine- That's like
I want them to know, okay, these guys
are-- They're gonna-- They're legit.
They're gonna take care of my people.
Um, we provide really good
Mike Pine: service.
But partnership is a
two-way street, right?
It's not a partnership if one
person's doing it all, right?
Yeah.
A partnership under federal tax laws, a
partnership is when you have more than
one taxpayer involved in a business
and you, you elect to be a partnership.
Partnership's a two-way street.
We choose partners because not only do we
get to educate and, and, and help people
save taxes and honestly get business
through them, but we're able to send our
clients when they find out, like we'll
see with this, with, with our guest
here in a minute, when they're ready
to make the move in that industry, that
partner serves our clients so darn well.
Yes.
Instead of just going out and buying
a short-term rental and losing
money year after year, but hey,
I got a tax break, they help them
actually make money, and that's when,
that's when saving tax makes sense.
Saving tax just today to lose money
in the future is a bad tax strategy.
Um, yeah, it's pretty much always bad.
I mean, we do have some tax strategies
where it's a one-time savings, and
you're not gonna make money in the
future, but at least you've made
money from that one-time tax savings.
But it's better if you'reâ¦
And, and as we've talked before,
tax advantage investing, if you are
using the tax savings to build a
portfolio that grows your financial
worth, your financial freedom, um, and
basically the IRS is subsidizing it.
So we need partners to help our clients
Utilize this hidden stuff in the tax
code, the hidden money in the tax code
to g- to get into these tax advantage
investments and make money with it.
Yeah.
Kevin Schneider: There's a definite
difference 'cause I mean, Vodasee, that's
why we're having Sean on is it's just such
been, been such a blessing to us and him.
We've had such a good relationship
to where w- it's a two-way street
to where, like you said, we're
sending people to Vodasee, they're
sending people to us, and itâ¦
That is what we're looking for.
We-- 'Cause relationship is so important
for us, that vendor relationship like
we were talking about, like we talked
to a guy, he says, "So d- I'll give
you, I'll give you 500 unique leads a
month, and it's 40K to join my group."
And we're like, "Yeah, but what
do, what, what if we did this?"
Because we went into their, we
went into their system and I was
like, "So what do you offer as an
incentive on the tax side forâ¦"
"Oh, you know, w- well,
we just kick that to you."
And I was like, "Well, what if
we offered that to you for free?"
Like I desi- I literally will
design a course specifically
branded for you at no cost.
And then- And then I will work it
on a weekly basis live with your
crew, with your, with your clients.
And I, I'm asking, I'm not
gonna pay to do that, butâ¦
And you're not paying me.
It's just relationship.
Mike Pine: And then what got us,
like, it was a great opportunity.
I mean, big national stage, uh, exposure
to tens of thousands of people a year.
Um, but when we said, "Look, man,
we, we're not gonna pay for this.
We-we're investing with you and being
partners," he's like, "That's fine.
I'll go get so and so."
Remember the name he said?
Yeah.
"I'll go get so and so who already
has a big draw," and that so and
so offers bad tax advice or wrong
tax advice or no tax advice.
We've gotten a lot of clients
that have been at so and so's.
And so our thought is, and, and I
remember us talking about this, wait a
second, we don't want to partner with
this company even though we could grow
a lot because of it, because if we send
people to them and they're, they're
willing to willy-nilly provide advice
based on draw, based on generating
membership fees, then what, what value
are we sending to our clients too?
Quality or quantity.
We're not-- And then we're gonna lose
our relationship with our clients.
Like our- Oh, you send me to him.
Yeah.
It does us no good to have a client
for two years and then goes away
because they had a bad experience.
Kevin Schneider: I have
yet to have a clientâ¦
Now, there's been some ups and
downs in some of the, the, uh,
growth at Vaudasy with some of our
clients that we've heard about.
But in working with them, I
would say two people I've heard
a complaint about Vaudasy, and
then all it is is a conversation.
We're like, "Hey, Sean,
this person said this."
He calls them and explains
it, and they're fine.
Mike Pine: And he's heard like
three or four complaints about us,
and he calls us, he's like, "Man,
they're, they're not happy with you."
Yeah.
And we're like,
Kevin Schneider: Thanks for
Mike Pine: telling us."
We call them in- And we go
Kevin Schneider: call
them and smooth it over.
Yeah.
I was like, "Oh yeah, we dropped
the ball on the onboarding.
We missed-- We weren't
prepared for that meeting.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna comp you
a year of con- consulting."
And they like, "Oh, really?"
I was like, "Yeah.
It's called client service."
It's like, "I'm sorry we dropped the ball.
I'm gonna make it right.
We're gonna give you the best
advice possible, and I'm gonna
cover the bill for it to, to re-
Mike Pine: recover this."
So it's
like- Excellence in values
Kevin Schneider: it's like the,
the values of both companies align,
and that is what we're looking for.
So Mike and I, and, and we'll, we'll buzz
in Sean here, but Mike and I are looking
for those right partners because we love
the actual education piece, webinars.
Um, that's what this podcast is.
But we, we love to pop on, and we will
be your advocate for your group and
saying, "Hey, if you, if you onboard
with our group, then you're gonna
have access to these tax strategists
at no additional cost at all."
Yep.
And we will work that group.
And now eventually, we want them to be
clients, but our job is to educate and
nurture your group, get them confident
saying, "Wow, I can do this," but they're
always gonna need help implementing.
And then that's when we're like,
"Okay, now you need to come over to
Revvo proper because we gotta do--
there's some work to be done now."
We got the education, the, the
relationship is built, but now there
is some work to be done, and that's
where we profit, is by client generate.
But we do that for-- We, we take that
time and that, that building off of
Mike Pine: our own plate.
And it's, it's profit for the clients.
It's profit for the taxpayers.
It's profit for our partners.
It's profit for us.
The only one who's not getting
a profit out of it is the IRS,
and that's the way it should be.
So real quick, before we, uh,
segue to our interview with Sean
Moore, you know, w- we talk about
Vodesi and plug Sean Moore a lot.
Um, and we just want to point out,
he's not our only partner, but we
have been working with Sean for
over five years now, maybe six.
Four.
Yeah.
Um, and he, he is by far,
Vodesi and Sean Moore is by far
our most evolved partnership.
We've learned how to
partner with him with it.
So much so, we're actually are creating
Kevin Schneider: official
partnership with Box
Mike Pine: with Vodesi.
A legal partnership.
Um, yeah, weird.
But no, it, it makes sense because
we have figured out ways, like a
very symbiotic relationship where
we serve our, each other's client
bases so well that, that this is,
this is the best explanation and, um,
illustration of why good partners matter.
Um, and that's what this show's about.
So, uh, let us introduce Sean Moore.
Well, here we are.
The infamous, famous, only Shawn
Moore from Vodyssey is here
willing to join us on our podcast.
Shawn, thank you so much for being here.
You are a good friend.
Um, I consider you a close friend.
You're an amazing partner to Revvo.
Uh, Kevin and I are grateful for all
the things we've learned from you.
You're now an official partner with us.
Thank you for considering
doing that with us.
I'm glad Theresa let you take
that kind of risk to, to partner
with guys like me and Kevin.
But, uh, thanks for being here and,
and helping us kind of stress the
importance of partnership as well
as some opportunities you have.
Shawn Moore: Absolutely, guys.
You guys, you guys know you're two of
my favorite guys, and, uh, that was
an easy sell to Theresa when we were,
especially when we're on the heels of a,
um, on the heels of an IRS audit- ⦠and
you get us passed with zero changes.
Um, th- that's a pretty easy sell.
It's like, "Hey, we're, we're
teaming up with these guys."
She's like, "Yeah, whatever you
want to do- Sure ⦠I love them."
"I love them right now."
Kevin Schneider: No
change reports are good.
Mike Pine: Yeah, you guys- No, yeah,
Shawn Moore: Zero change reports
are really good on an audit.
So Kevin, uh, you know, so that was
e- that was an easy conversation.
Now, you guys have been a longtime partner
of ours with, uh, Vodyssey, and, and, uh,
you know, the, we were talking before we
hit, uh, record just the, the importance
of having the amazing teams that we do.
Mm-hmm.
And, and you guys have been a part of
the Vodyssey team and the Vodyssey, you
know, strategy, uh, for a long time,
and super, super excited as we kinda
roll into our next chapter together,
um, you know, and, and teeing that up.
But I, I always kinda
feel like when I'mâ¦
Like right now with a lot of
our clients on the front end, I
feel like I'm a tax strategist.
Like, you guys are the, the two
best tax strategists I know.
And I always feel like I kinda have
to, like, be a tax strategist sometimes
because there's so much that merges
together with what we're doing.
Oh, absolutely.
And it, you know, and, and ultimately
why it becomes such a great partnership,
just having the, the right, the right
people on the right seat of the bus
and, uh, you know, I, I could never
do what we do without you guys.
Mike Pine: Thanks, man.
Before we get too far along here
though, I do wanna point out that my
feelings are still a little hurt, Sean.
When Becca and I and the kids came out
to your house last mon- or last year,
and you'd just recently gotten the
audit notice, I could see your, see the
concern in yours and Theresa's eyes, and
I said, "You got nothing to worry about."
I must have said that a dozen times.
Kevin said it a dozen times.
Yeah.
You guys were still worried.
You, will you trust me next time, please?
Shawn Moore: Hey, anytime you get a letter
from any three-letter agency- ⦠in
the government- ⦠you get nervous.
Yeah.
And one of the worst ones is the IRS.
So I can't promise I'm not going
to be nervous if I get another one.
And we see them every day.
Yeah.
So I'm, I'm like, I saw it and I
saw who was auditing, what they were
targeting, and I was like, "Slam dunk."
Yeah.
I was like, we- Right ⦠if
anyone's gonna get this
thing buttoned up, it's Sean.
Like, this is it.
Mike Pine: Like, they picked
the wrong guy to audit.
Kevin Schneider: They
picked the wrong guy.
Didn't they?
That was fun.
They did.
Yeah.
So yeah, Sean, we, we were just kind of
reminiscing on kinda how this relationship
started and when, how we, how we partner
with people and how we, we, we don't
even consider it working the group.
Like, some people will say,
"Hey, come work my group,"
and, you know, all this stuff.
It's like, man, we get to educate, we get
to consult, and that's an added benefit
for the Vodyssey, Vodyssey family is,
hey, if you come on board at Vodyssey, you
have Mike and Kevin personally, and we, we
come in there once a week and we consult.
We have education,
branded education for you.
Um, and that is your material.
That is Vodyssey material only.
No one else gets that except
for people in Vodyssey.
We do not- you know, copy
paste that and put it online
or do other groups like that.
It's like, Vodyssey's content
is Vodyssey's content.
And that is such a value that, you know,
Mike and I, we, we pride ourselves on
that, is that is what relationship is.
You don't pay us to do that.
Yeah.
We don't pay to be in your group.
Yeah.
It's, it's a, it's a, it's a
two-way street of referrals,
trust, growth, and that's why we
value Vodyssey, and that's, it's-
Mike Pine: Yeah, and the same time, we
meet a new client that we could explain
the benefits of short-term rentals, and
they're like, "Well, that sounds hard to
do," or, "I've heard some horror stories.
People don't make money in that.
Is it just worth the tax benefit?
Is that the only reason you do it?"
I'm like, "No.
Let me introduce you to Sean Moore,"
and then he gets your entire team,
or that client gets your entire team,
and you personally, you do calls once
a week with all your s- team, right?
Like, you're there for them.
Yeah.
Um, for all your members, and
it's, it's a two-way street, man.
And, and The, the- Oh, we- When we're
working together- Yeah ⦠to save
a client money on taxes on our side,
and you're helping them make money
with the best STR experience, and
top performer in wherever they're at
for their avatar, boy, that's magic.
I love you for that, man.
Thank you.
Shawn Moore: Yeah.
I- it'sâ¦
Well, I love you guys and, and it's, uh,
the feeling is, like, y- when it comes
to a partnership too, like, we alwaysâ¦
I was just talking, right before I jumped
into the studio, I was talking to a
prospective client and, you know, they're
making a couple million dollars a year.
They've got a, almost an $800,000 tax
burden every single year, and we're
talking about short-term rentals.
And, and one of the things that I love,
and this happens all the time, is when
we start to talk about, you know, the,
the advantages of short-term rentals
with the, w- for, for your taxes, right?
To be able to, you know, have
a significant portion written
off against your taxes and all
these different strategies.
But I, I love being able to say,
"Hey, listen, one of the things we
have in Odyssey is we got the best in
the business when it comes to tax."
Yes, you do.
We've got Mike and Kevin at Revo,
and th- you can jump on with them
and strategize every Thursday.
And by the way, they don't just
understand short-term rentals.
They understand charitable stuff.
They understand the,
the oil and gas stuff.
They understand all these
different things because their
clients are high-income earners.
So this might be one leg of
your investment stool, and we
want to make sure it's a really
successful leg, um, of that stool.
But they also are going to open your
eyes to a lot of different things
because many of these guys that
we're talking to right now, they're,
they're physicians, they're, they're
W2, like s- the C-class executives,
and they're not business owners.
They don't have a lot of other write-offs.
They don't have a lot
of that stuff lined up.
And it feels so good to be able to-
Mm ⦠not only help them with their
short-term rentals, but also know that
many times they need to do and run
down multiple roads at the same time to
really mitigate that, that tax burden
and, and ultimately lining themselves
up for really good investments also.
And, and I think that, you know, I feel
always so comfortable turning them over
to you guys when it comes to that stuff
because, you know, we, we know one leg of
the stool, which is short-term rentals,
really, really well to maximize the assets
and put them in a position to succeed-
Yes, you do ⦠with this asset class.
But there's other ways that they
can really mitigate that tax, those,
those tax, uh, that tax burden.
Mike Pine: Yeah.
Um, and likewise, man.
We've been able to experience,
there's a lot of short-term rental
educations, educators out there, right?
Um, and we've seen a lot of clients come
over, new clients or new prospects come
over, and they've gotten an education
somewhere else other than, than Odyssey.
Um, and, and I'm just gonna be honest,
m- f- per capita and percentage-wise
and statistically, by far, the members
who take your, the members of Odyssey
who take the courses seriously,
who go through the homework, who
utilize the, um, the resources y'all
provide, they tend to make money.
The ones that either self-taught,
now occasionally you get some people
self-taught that are killing it, right?
But those people, like, uh, they're,
they're few and far between.
But the ones that go to other
educators, some make money, a lot don't.
I've had people come over and said, "Hey,
look, the educator said, 'Hey, as long
as I get the tax benefit, it's okay if it
costs me $1,000 a month out of pocket.'"
Oh.
And-
Shawn Moore: Doesn't that drive you nuts?
Oh, it does.
Like, uh- Like,
seriously ⦠oh, that, yeah.
I, I, I, I ha- like that, that is,
I hear that all the time, which is
why I apologize for interrupting you.
But I, it has never made sense to justify
a mediocre or bad investment because you
got the tax savings on the front end.
It, it's, it's never registered
with me, and I don't n- understand
how people buy into that.
But I, I hear that exact
same thing all the time.
Yeah.
Mike Pine: On the topic of short-term
rentals, you know, a lot of what
I'm hearing and, and we've just,
we've been talking, we've got a new
service out there that I love, and
this isn't the only way to do it.
I mean, there's, you can do it
completely yourself with Odyssey.
I shouldn't be talking about what Odyssey
offers, but yeah, I'll let you do that.
But there's also, we, we have a lot
of clients who are two damn busy.
Like, you got these high income- Mm-hmm
⦠W2 people, they're at the peak of growing
their career, they're killing themselves,
they have young children at home, new
marriage, they don't have extra time.
And we talk to them about short-term
rentals, they're like, "Man, I don't have
the time, um, to, to run one of those
and to fully materially participate."
And I love that you guys have listened
to your, your clients and our clients
and have come up with a solution for
that with your white glove service.
Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Shawn Moore: Yeah, it's, uh, you know,
we've, we've resisted for a long time.
I'veâ¦
There's a lot of people who sell
turnkey properties and, you know,
where you can just go buy a property.
I've always resisted 'cause I always
felt like somebody needs to know the
game they're getting into and the
game that they're gonna be playing.
If you're gonna play the game, you
gotta learn how to play the game.
Mm.
And, and we help them get those reps in.
But we started to realize, man, there's
a lot of people that really could
benefit from being in this game, and if
we've got the resources and we've got
the team to go out and, and put them,
you know, set them up for success, take
them through the three major phases,
buying the right property in the right
area, setting it up, creating a unique
experience with all the design and the
management in place so that they don't
have a second job, and ultimately turn it
and hand it over to them after a launched
property is stabilized, there's a lot of
benefits from that for a lot of people.
But we also wasâ¦
What was a challenge there is they still
need to materially participate, right?
They still need to make sure
those hours are in there.
And, and so it wasâ¦
We're, we're, we've figured out a
pathway where we can come in and do
the heavy lifting, and they get updates
and input on the design and some of the
acquisition stuff, and we've a- been
able to be able to bake in those 100
hours through the process that fits into
their schedule, you know, that fits into
their, you know, the, the, the limited
time that they have available, but still
fully qualify for that being a material
participant so that they can get that
big tax advantage on the back end.
And, and that's been really, really
fun navigating and putting together
and, and being able to offer a lot
of those higher income earners that
just don't have the time to go figure
this out, even following a process
on their own and doing it themselves.
Mike Pine: So basically training
them to be managers of their property
and getting it stabilized and
working and profitable, um- Right.
Kevin Schneider: But also while
providing services to their business.
I mean, this is a trader business,
even though y'all are taking the
lion's share- Yeah ⦠of it on the
start, they are still involved in that.
Mike Pine: Yeah, why don't you tell us a
little bit about how this qualifies under
the tax code for material participation?
Kevin Schneider: Yeah, so material
participation is really, it's a
seven-part test, and you really only
have to pass one of the seven parts.
The part that Sean's
talking about is 100 hours.
So if when you buy a short-term rental,
it's, it's a passive investment,
and most of our clients are active
income earners, IW2 physicians,
business owners, and things like that.
So if you passively buy an
investment, it's not gonna
actively reduce your income.
It just, that's not how it works.
Those two buckets don't
communicate to each other.
So material participation moves your
short-term rental from passive to
active, and material participation is 100
hours plus more time than anyone else.
That's one of the tests.
And when you, when you do the white glove
service with Vodyssey, they're gonna
make sure you achieve that 100 hours.
There is gonna be some work.
This can't just be passive
hours, you know, just sitting,
listening, and, you know.
You have to actively be working
your property and managing
and providing services.
And so- But sufficient hours.
This is- They, they give you the formula.
Very efficient, yeah.
Yeah.
They, here's what yourâ¦
H- here's your homework,
here's your tasks.
Yeah.
Do these tasks, document how long
it took you, document your time.
Now, by the end of the year, you have
100 hours, and then you have the experts
that have put this property in service.
So you'reâ¦
Where'sâ¦
I mean, you're winning on both sides.
Mike Pine: And you have proof.
You have proof 'cause Sean's developed,
his team's developed a tracking,
um, tracking infrastructure that no
one else has spent more time than
you and your spouse- Yes ⦠or
just you if you're not married.
Yeah.
And that's, that's key.
Yeah.
I don't know anyone else that's done that.
Shawn Moore: That's another, that's
another key thing that we're doing
is, one, we're, we're, we're lining
up the management partners be- because
a lot of times you're competing with
hours with really not the management
partner as often as you are the cleaner.
The cleaner's gonna have a lot of hours.
So we're strategically making
sure we're getting cleaning, um,
companies, the management partners
that have multiple cleaning teams.
So they might have the, the whole cleaning
team in a year might have 250 hours,
but it's split between four different
cleaners because they're rotating, right?
It's 'cause it's, it's individual,
an individual person, right?
And so we're, we're understanding what
we have to do to make sure that you
truly do qualify because like I did,
if you have to go through an audit,
you wanna make sure that those T's
are crossed and those I's are dotted.
That's right.
Otherwise, you know, there's a, you know,
the, you don't get the zero changes,
uh, the letter that I got, right?
Kevin Schneider: Yeah, that's right.
It's super important.
And so, um, yeah, Sean, the, the, the
partnership that we've kind of formed-
is just so valuable for our business.
You, you are one of the biggest
reasons why our firm took off
probably four or five years ago,
'cause we were alongside with you.
It's like probably three out
of four referrals were Audacy.
And we're like, "This group
is cra- this group is crazy."
Mm-hmm.
Like, and- Yeah ⦠and so that
really he- showed Mike and I.
It's like, man, if we lean into this
and really give Audacy all we can.
So we don't do this for many
other people, where like Mike's
bill rate is 1,000 plus an hour.
Mm-hmm.
His schedule right now, me as his
business partner, I cannot get a
meeting with my business partner-
unless I go through his
executive assistant- ⦠and
there's a week's notice.
That's sad.
But my God, is there not a block of
two hours every week for Audacy that he
carves out, and me too, just in case.
I, I run- Yeah ⦠some of those too
if you're out or something like that.
But that's the importance of partâ¦
Like, that is what we're talking about,
is m- it's, it's, it's not that we
see ourselves as great or it's- No
it's just like we'veâ¦
Our business has grown to where Mike is
needed elsewhere, but he has protected
that allotment of time specifically
for you guys, and that's because w-
the, the partnership we've developed.
Mike Pine: Well, I mean, I think
you, you hit the nail on the
head as you're explaining that.
We learned through partnership
with you, Shawn, truly how
important partnership was.
And it's notâ¦
Yeah, we, our business grew a lot, just
like yours did at that time, and a lot
of it's thanks to what y'all were doing.
But what it really came down to is the
value we were able to provide our clients.
Yeah.
The value you were able to provide
yours, the value we provided- Yeah ⦠as
partners to our clients together.
That's the value of partnership whenâ¦
I never get this right.
Let's see if I can get it right.
When the sum of two parts is greater
than the whole- You got it ⦠I
think I said it right this time.
You did.
Um- Yeah.
It, it, it's magic, right?
Yeah.
Like, there's only so much we can
com- we can accomplish on our own.
There's only so much- Yeah ⦠our
partners can accomplish on their own.
But when we combine it together,
and it's even greater than the
sum of the two parts, that's what
partnership- Yeah ⦠is about.
That's whatâ¦
I think Audacy is partners with their
members, and they add more value to them.
We are partners with our clients.
We're adding more value,
and we can't add that value.
Our clients do most of the work.
We just teach them what they need to do.
Um- Yeah ⦠we teach them the tax
law, but they go out and they do all
the hard work, and then they save
the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
We don't own that.
Mm-hmm.
We, we didn't build that.
They built that.
Mm-hmm.
But we get to enjoy the partnership
together of them achieving that.
Um, that's good partnership, I think.
Yeah.
Shawn Moore: Yeah, and we're so grateful
for it and, and understanding as it grows.
But I also think that there's a goodâ¦
You know, good partners all
bring something to the table
as well, but also they share a,
a, a specific value set, right?
Mm-hmm.
A lot of the times with partnerships,
like you just mentioned, we're
talking about the clients a lot.
Like, I- I'm very, very, um,
slow to partner with anybody,
uh, as, as I know you guys are.
Like, there's a lot of
people who reach out to us.
I know you guys get the same type
of calls where they're saying, "Hey,
listen, we'll, we'll pay these referrals.
We'll give you this money.
Put us in your p- as a partner."
Like, "I wanna be a referred partner.
I wanna do this."
We won't take money for partnerships.
We don't, we just don't.
Like, if we actually form a partnership
on the back end, like you guys
know this, like, like we didn'tâ¦
For how long were you, you were my
recommended advisors, my expert advisors.
We're helping each other out.
We're helping the clients out.
There's not referrals passing
back and forth, right?
We're just doing it because we think
it's the best thing for the client.
And, and I think at the end of the
day, that's why, that's why, one, the
partnership's really good, but it's also,
it's not just a partnership between us.
It becomes that partnership
with our clients.
Mm.
And they trust us.
We become actually trusted advisors,
and that's a really good feeling.
Like there's- Mm-hmm ⦠a lot of
responsibility that comes with that, and
it weighs heavy on us a lot of times.
But I always judge our partnerships
kinda how I judge people in restaurants.
I always look, see how they treat
the waiters, waiter and waitresses.
Um, but I judge partners on
how do they treat the clients
when something goes wrong.
Like how do they treat them
when if, if we, if we mess up?
How do they handle the mess-up?
Do they have a lot of excuses,
or do they say, "Hey, listen,
we're gonna go fix this."
And because we, we know
this is gonna be long-term.
And you guys haveâ¦
I, I've seen you guys
do that so many times.
It, it's just like, "Hey, listen,
we're putting the clients first."
Mike Pine: Wait, you're
saying we mess up a lot?
Or
Shawn Moore: No.
Or thatâ¦
But when we do mess up, we own up.
Hey, over, over the years we
all mess up a couple times.
Yeah.
We own up.
But itâ¦
And, and sometimes, like, we
just need to fix things, right?
Mm-hmm.
And, and we're able to do that, and,
and it's, uh, it, the partnership
really extends, like you just said.
Like I, I talk to, every single
Friday on my podcast, I talk to,
uh, short-term rental investors
that are succeeding in the game.
And, and inevitably on the podcast
they're thanking us for our systems,
thanking us for this, and I'm like,
"You guys, the credit is yours."
Mm.
The, the credit goes to you.
The, you guys went and did it all.
We did the easy stuff.
And, um, you know, but we also, we also
take heavy that responsibility, uh,
that people do trust us at this stage
of the game just lot like they do you.
And I love, love, love the
way that you guys, you know,
really take that responsibility.
You know, you don't take that
responsibility lightly either.
Mike Pine: Mm-mm.
No.
We can't.
Well, Sean, before we let
you go, and I thank you for
your time, you're actuallyâ¦
Kevin's joking and making fun
of me how busy I am, but I think
you're busier than both of us.
And, and your- No ⦠your daughters
are a lot older, or your, yourâ¦
Sorry, your daughter and son
are a lot older, so you're
a lot busier, um, than me.
But, um, we talked about
the white glove service.
That's cool and, and, you know, we're
gonna have your link in, in below.
Um, and maybe you can tell us
a little bit more about it.
But let's say you're someone, like a
lot of our clients that we refer to
you and a lot of the c- the new people
that are un- just starting to think,
"I wanna run a short-term rental.
I wanna run Airbnb.
I hear I can make some money on it.
I hear I can save some taxes on it.
But I'm willing to put in a lot of work.
I've got the available time."
Can you just tell us a little bit
about what Vodyssey offers and
how to find out more about it?
Shawn Moore: Yeah, absolutely.
So Vodysey.com's
the best place.
You can go book a call there.
You can go check out properties,
success stories, all that stuff.
So just go to Vodysey.com,
V-O-D-Y-S-E-Y, and you can learn about
the short-term rental game, what we do.
What we're really trying to do
is help investors walk into this
game with their eyes wide open.
Navigate the three major phases
that the biggest mistakes are
made, which is we need to buy the
right property in the right area.
We cannot let the, the tax
tail wag the investment dog.
That's where we start.
We start with, "Let's buy
quality assets in quality areas.
Let's set them up to succeed
with the right design, the right
experience, the right management
so I don't have a second job.
And then ultimately, how are
we gonna market it, stand out
in these crowded markets?"
And that's what we're, what we're
trying to do at Vodysey, and
we really just have a paint by
numbers program that you plug into.
And, and then we line you up with the
experts along the way, just like you guys.
Every single, you know, the, the, the,
the amount of, you know, expertise inside
of our group from the experience side
in the community, but also the experts
that are at every step of the process
that are there for you, that's what we're
trying to do at Vodysey, is just toâ¦
We wanna get our unfair
share, um, of business.
We wanna get our unfair share
of advantages and build in those
advantages from the very beginning.
We're not trying to play the same
game that everybody else is playing.
And at Vodysey, our goal is to really
kind of go m- maximize our success
in the short-term rental game,
and we try to help people do that.
Kevin Schneider: Yeah.
And that's why I think
relationship's probably one of
your biggest- differentiators.
Like there's so many courses, and
I even see them on the tax side.
It's kind of like, "Hey, here's,
pay us 1,000 bucks and you have
access to all this online material."
And you, you watch it
and you're like, "Cool.
Now what?"
Yeah.
Exactly.
It's like there's still a relationship.
There's still something you need
to- Yeah ⦠it's not a course.
It is- No ⦠it, it is, it's
so much bigger than that.
I mean, is there material on there?
Yeah, we have a tax section in Vodyssey
that- Yeah ⦠you're gonna get- Entire
course ⦠an entire course on tax.
Yeah.
For fr- for, not free, but- Yeah ⦠for
like, for the membership of Vodyssey.
But it's not- Yeah ⦠just
passive listening.
Like logging into your group and seeing
the daily engagement, and that's what
we're trying to kick off with our podcast
is, man, I want people to have a platform
and ask questions and be engaged.
It's a community.
And I- Yeah ⦠you even call
it a family, and I believe it
because I see the people on there.
They're like, "Hey, I just joined," and
there's like 30, 40 comments within the
day saying, "Welcome," and you know.
Mm.
It is like a legit community.
It is.
Yeah.
And so it's just, it is really cool.
And so, um, it's just been so much
fun working with you, and we're
looking forward to what the future
has between Vodyssey and Revo.
More to come on that later.
Um, but yeah, I don't know if
you have anything to add to that.
Mike Pine: I, yeah.
Close it out.
I know, I know we've already taken more
time than we're supposed to with you,
Sean, if you got a few more minutes,
I, I would just like, so we're not
just self-promoting ourselves, and,
and Sean Moore, you've got a lot of
very impressive partners and expertise
in the short-term rental area.
So you've got us on the tax side.
We got you on, on, who's run
short-term rentals and stuff for
20 years and on the visionary side.
Do you mind just highlighting
a few of the other expert
partnerships that you, you bring?
And you don't have to go through all
of them, 'cause I know it's exhausting.
Yeah.
But just like some of the top tier.
Shawn Moore: Yeah, no, it, but
it, but it's, uh, but it's true.
This is- This is the game that is built
around experts and partners, right?
The, theâ¦
I have an entire, I have
a nine-step process.
The, the fourth step in the process is
called partnerships for a reason, because
it's such a massive, you know, building
the right team is so critical, right?
Mm-hmm.
When we're buying, we've got an
acquisitions partner, we've got a
photographer, we've got designers, we've
got paid marketing experts in there.
Like, we bring in all
of these differentâ¦
And you guys on the tax side, obviously,
that we've been talking about.
I mean, there's, there's your team
members, your management partner, right?
When you're, when you're in- good-
getting in this game, unless you
want to manage these properties and
turn it into a second job, you've
gotta have good management partners.
You gotta have boots on the ground
people, realtors in those areas.
There's lots of different people
that you're gonna put on your team
to really have success in this game.
And then you ultimately have to be
kind of the manager of all those
partners, and understand how to, how
to navigate all those relationships,
how they, how they all go together.
And like, like Kevin said, we, you
know, you look at it as a family.
Like, your, your partners are,
you know, your, th- those areâ¦
You gotta look at them as
kind of your ride or dies.
It's like, "Hey, if I'm running
down this road, I'm, I'm gonna build
the best team possible," right?
And I wanna know that,
that that team member isâ¦
I wanna be in the, you know, I wanna
be in the, the bunker with them when,
when the shots start getting fired.
Mike Pine: Wow.
Yeah.
We need, we need some
more expert partners.
Shawn's kind of beating us on this.
He's got too many experts compared to us.
We, we- We need more expert partners.
We need, uh- N-
Shawn Moore: hey, you guys are
way smarter than me, so you,
you don't need as many experts.
I, I'm the guy that's like,
I, I take great pride in being
the dumbest person in the room.
That's kind of my, my MO.
I'm like, "Hey, listen.
I'm gonna surround myself with so many
smart people," so I just- I'm- Myâ¦
I'm hoping, like, by
osmosis I get the brains
⦠Mike Pine: I'm the dumbest
man at Rabo Taxpayer Advocacy.
We've always hired people smarter
than me, and once Kevin became a
partner- ⦠he's agreed, we hire
people smarter than him and I.
Yes.
And we're, that's, yeah.
That's the way to go.
It's a good business model.
Yeah.
So we need some brilliant- Takes
the pressure off you ⦠we need
some other brilliant partners.
Yeah.
So Shawn, thank you so much.
Man, I, I, I love working with you.
Absolutely.
Yeah, thank you.
Um, I'm enjoying serving clients
with you together and, man, let's
keep changing lives together.
And, um, hopefully I get to see you guys
soon, and tell your wife I said hey.
Shawn Moore: Will do.
I appreciate you guys.
As always, you guys, uh, you
guys do such an amazing job.
Thanks for having me on, and, uh, always
looking forward to future conversations
and all the stuff we're gonna do together.
Kevin Schneider: All right, man.
Same.
Shawn Moore: I'll see you.
Thank you.
Thanks, guys.
Well, that was Sean Moore of Votacy.
Link to his website below, and
please go to revotaxpayer.com
if you wanna know more about
what we do here at Revo.
But thank you for joining this episode.
If you're a potential partner out there
and what we do with Votacy interests you,
please reach out to us at revotaxpayer.com
as well.
but please like, comment,
subscribe to this video, and we
will see you in the next episode.
Thank you for listening to this episode.
Revo Taxpayer Advocacy LLC is not licensed
or registered as a CPA firm with the
Texas State Board of Public Accountancy.
I'm a CPA, Kevin's a CPA.
We have a lot of CPAs on staff that are
licensed and held to the same standards.
However, when we decided to be
revolutionary and change our
name to Revell Taxpayer Advocacy,
the state board would not allow
that and let us remain licensed.
They say we have to have one
of our names in the firm for
us to be licensed as a firm.
And guess what?
It's not us that's important.
It's revolutionizing the way you feel
about taxes and saving you money.
We are advocates for you, so we were
willing to drop our firm license even
though we're still individually licensed.