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The Unboxing Judaism Podcast is a lively dialogue and discussion between Rabbi Yaakov Nagel and Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe that helps unbox and demystify the most fundamental ideas in Judaism that are commonly misunderstood.
This Podcast Series is Generously Underwritten by Rabbi Yaakov & Dr. Sara Nagel
00:01 - Intro (Announcement)
You're listening to Rabbi Yaakov Nagel and Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe from TORCH, the Torah Outreach Resource Center of Houston. This is the Unboxing Judaism Podcast.
00:12 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
Shalom Aleichem. Welcome back, my dear friends, welcome back to the Unboxing Judaism Podcast. We have a lot to talk about. We have a lot to catch up. Welcome, rabbi Nagel. How are you? A lot to talk about. We have a lot to catch up. Welcome, Rabbi Nagel. How are you?
00:24 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
I am very excited about an upcoming event, and that's the purpose of this get-together. This get-together yes.
00:34 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
Exactly so. For those of you who don't know, dafyomi was founded as a system of learning a folio a day of the Talmud. It was founded by Rabbi Meir Shapiro over 100 years ago and since then Rabbi Nagel has been learning Dafyami. No, actually back in 2003, I believe it was 2002. 2002.
00:59 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
So tell us what happened. Okay, here's how it goes happened. Okay, here's how it goes. Back in June of 2002, there was an interest in somebody giving the share of a daily page of Talmud study and this is in addition to my regular studies. I was full-time in the Kolo of Torch at that time. But if there was a need, there was an interest. So I said, all right, I'll give it a shot. And that is exactly what happened. I didn't think it would last. I didn't know if it would last. But we said, what does it hurt to try? If there's interest, people want it. It's a worldwide phenomenon. Why not give it a chance? And that's exactly what we did. And there was a fine group of people that started with us back then. And sometime in June of 2002, that's when we started and slowly but surely pretty sure that's what it was Slowly but surely we were middle of Babasra at the time. We wasn't.
02:05 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
We started it wasn't a fresh new start?
02:07 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
No, we started wherever they were up to, because if you wait till the beginning then it doesn't happen. So you just got to catch the day that it is. And we did that day and that's what we did and we, slowly, we were somewhere in the 80s, in middle of a tractate that's known for its, that that's known for its, that it's a difficult tractate. We just said, let's just go for it, we'll try. There was interest and I'll tell you something funny about that.
02:30
First class, bab Basra is unique because the commentary is the Rashbam, and the Rashbam is very wordy, much more than Rashi, and he fills up a lot of the folio and the actual words of the Talmud is quite short. So I prepared and I said, okay, let me give the class. I tried explaining it as clearly as I could and 20 minutes later I was finished and I was like this doesn't make sense. How could I work so hard to give a class for just 20 minutes? So the next day I said, before we begin today's, we're going to do a full review of the previous day, which means that we went through all the questions. The question that Talmud first starts with. This question gives an answer, gives a proof, gives a disproof, working my way, speaking outside the entire previous page, and ever since then, even on the longest dafim, that's what we've been doing since and it's only thanks because we started in the middle of Babasra where there was so much extra time.
03:32
That became the custom and I spent literally out of the hour. I spent a good 15, 20 minutes reviewing the previous page and I want you to know that it's an amazing special quality that's unique to this year that hasn't been replicated as far as I know. People tried saying that there's somebody who comes visits. He says I tried convincing the rabbit to do it and he just won't. He just won't. It's too hard, but that's unique and it's amazing because it's so many times that it's on the review that things start clicking more and it's still fresh enough that you remember from yesterday. It's before you forget, but now you think about it again and that's how we've been doing it.
04:17 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
So I have to ask you, rabbi Nagel, a couple of questions. First is what was the most intriguing part of this whole journey? Questions First is what was the most intriguing part of this whole journey? Now it's going to be your third Siyam Hashas, which is unbelievable, you know, finishing the Shas, learning it now six times, because it's really three times, but each time during the review the next day is. So it's really six times that you've completed the Shas, which is something that I'm extremely envious of as someone who's done the Dafyemi and fallen off the boat so many times, like I'm almost discouraged of like getting back on the boat again and falling off again, but that's part of life. So I want your first is what's the most unique part of your journey in doing the Dafyemi?
04:59 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
I'll tell you. I mean, first of all, it's not forever, peter. I'm first to admit it that not everybody is cut out to be able to do that much information, to absorb that much information in such a short time. But I will tell you this One of the greatest qualities of it is that you're with the group, you have people, you can be anywhere in the world. You can find a class. That's that's doing it. You can go online. There's hundreds of classes online that you could find of that daily page including including my yes, the rabbi yakov negel daf yomi.
05:37 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
Podcast by torch. That's exactly right so there's uh.
05:42 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
So in that sense, you're part of a, you're part of a large thing, and that gives you encouragement, that keeps you going. And another amazing quality is that you may not get, let's say, 100% of the information one time. But as, of course, the Talmud doesn't talk about its subject and never talks about it again, it's always coming up in different pictures, different times, and slowly but surely the picture starts getting sharper and sharper and you get more and more out of it. So the more you learn, the more you learn. That's what happens.
06:20 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
And they say that more than it's the daf yomi, more than it's the daf, it's the yomi, it's the consistency of the daily study.
06:29 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
And that's another big, big big thing that I love about the daf yomi and that is that its consistency is so powerful, because you're tired, you're not in the mood, but you do it because you committed yourself to do it and then you just do it and it's not even a test anymore, it's just part of your life, and that consistency is something that you always can fall back and it's like, even if I didn't get anything else done, I know I accomplished today and that's a great feeling. You know, so many times in life you could get very frustrated about what it's never a total loss, it's a good day, it's a great day, it's always a great day.
07:13
That's a very comforting thing, and that's the beauty of Dafyami also. It's something that's there every day for you. You do it every day. It keeps you going and that's another amazing quality of it.
07:25 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
That's amazing. So what was the biggest challenge doing the Dafyami all these years?
07:30 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
I'll tell you this, the biggest challenge doing the dafiemi all these years. I'll tell you this part of how I remember um, that the daf is because I have a daughter who was born in august of 2002. That's how I remember. It's when it was and, uh, she, uh and she. You know.
07:51
We went to the hospital that night and then the baby was born just early in the morning. Enough time, 6.09. I forgot exactly the time and I said I think I can make it to the DAF. I was in the hospital anyway. I had my gemara with me, because you're committed when you're committed. And I just came to the DAF. I was very, very tired because there really was no sleep that night and the feeling afterwards was one of exhilaration. It's like, look at this, like I never, if I didn't have this sheer, I never would have pushed myself to do it and that's and and to and it. That's a. That was like a revelation to me that the commitment keeps you going, it empowers you to do things that you never thought possible, and that's to me a great yeah, that's just a great memory.
08:45 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
Wow. So what's your word of encouragement to those of us who have not been fortunate enough to finish Shas yet?
08:52 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
The best thing is to not get scared of like, oh, it's so much ahead of me. All you have to think about is like, right, today is just one day and let's just learn for today and we'll see what happens tomorrow. And if I wake up on time and I go, then let's do that day. Every day is its own day, it's a new day and there's no reason why you can't learn that day. Every day is its own day, it's a new day and there's no reason why you can't learn that day's page. And we do a review, we explain and don't worry about it Just every day. Whenever you wake up and you say, you know what, why not today? Let's do it today and that's the best way.
09:25
Don't get discouraged from and say, well, I can't commit for that long, don't commit for that long. Commit for just one day and you'll see it actually hooks you and that's the beauty of it. The more you try it, the more you enjoy it. People go home exhilarated. They're thought about things, they thought about interesting things. Talmud is amazing about how many areas of study it covers and that's it's everything. It's the wisdom, it's wisdom of life that comes up all the time and it's just fascinating and that's, and it keeps it coming.
10:07 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
Two questions. Firstly, is there ever a piece of Gemara that you study that you're just like? I have no idea what they're talking about. That's one.
10:18 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
The answer to that question is that I will plead the fifth. I certainly developed the skill of certainly sounding like I understand what I'm saying. If you ask a little bit of a deep question. I hope you don't do that. But bottom line is I certainly am able at this point to be able to say that every page I can certainly sound coherent, whether it is or not.
10:41 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
That remains to be seen. I love the humility. The next question is like this so we have a Thinking Talmudist class and podcast that meets every week and we've been meeting now for almost 10 years and every time we do a different piece of Talmud from a different interesting story or an interesting agadah, different idea, different concept and the real purpose of why we're doing it. Of course, to learn Hashem's Torah, but more than that is that I have found that many of our students at Torch have had a link, difficulty between how we have halacha from what's written in the Torah and that link that's missing is the Talmud. If you don't learn the Talmud, you have no idea how we got to the conclusion of halacha and which is why we do it, because I want them to understand. Also, it means I want to hear what your perspective is on this. Like I try to point out in every piece of Gemara.
11:40
Look at how, how detailed the Gemara is with the source of information, all the names. If you take all the names that are quoted in the Talmud, it's probably maybe five or six books worth of the Talmud just by the name sourcing it Amar Rabi Yecharon, amar Rabi Yehoshua, all the different names, and some say it was this and some say it was that person who said it All. To quote and to verify the source of where the information is coming from, which I point out all the time to our participants. This is key because when you're searching for truth, there's no anonymous sources. It's not the Washington Post. You don't write an article with anonymous sources, everything. There's no such thing in the Talmud. It's like we can't tell you who gave us the source. No, no.
12:27 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
We have to know who the source is right. That's a good point. I'll tell you what I feel like. The thing that I find that what Talmud provides is besides for that link, really, which is so crucial, of seeing the line between the Word of God that's written in the Bible and how it actually manifests and comes down to how we practice. That understanding just makes you feel, it gives you reasoning, it gives you understanding, it gives you clarity, and there's nothing like clarity in life. You feel good about it. It brings joy to you when you have that clarity.
13:03
That's what's amazing about studying Talmud. You understand now where it comes from. It's not just a random group of laws. It's based on the Word of God and you see how it's drawn out from the Word of God and that's what the Talmud is constantly doing is trying to draw that line. The other point of Talmud which is so beautiful is seeing the opposing opinions. You see, this one says this way, this one says that way, and you learn how to carry opposing opinions at the same time and say, well, I can understand these two perspectives. That's so crucial and such a great skill to have for life, to be able to carry those two sides inside of you and say I can see both sides with clarity and I understand the two perspectives fully, and think about how many places in life that's going to make your life so much better.
13:58 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
And that's to me a big part of it, and the greatness of the Gemara, the Talmud, is that you always have the opinion of the non-halachic source first, meaning we'll give the opposing view first and then we'll give the halachic view last right. That's generally the rule. Is the last opinion is the one that we follow halachically.
14:21 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
It's because you don't understand the final reason without understanding the opposing reason, and people don't realize that the clarity only comes from seeing contrast. That's what clarity is. That's when you have like a fuzzy thing and you're a video. So what do you need to move? You've got to work on your contrast and then all of a sudden it brings focus. That's exactly what it is. That's how it works. If you want clarity in life, you have to have the contrast as sharp as you can get it, and that's what you're getting when you have the opposing opinions. So it's crucial. Besides, for balancing differing opinions, having clarity is the key.
15:01 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
So what's going to happen on Matzah Shabbos Saturday night this week?
15:05 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
So this Saturday night is the celebration we're gathering together. There's people coming from all over the Houston community because I look at this and it really is. It's Houston's accomplishment. That's what it is. This community has had a daily class every single day for upside of 22 years. That's what it is More than 22 years that we've been studying every single day. That's still going on today and that's an amazing thing. It's a great thing to be part of.
15:40 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
I had the merit to fill in once or twice over the years when you were traveling, so it was a tremendous privilege. So what happens at the Siyam, what really goes on?
15:53 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
Well, what we're going to do. We saved a little piece at the end. We're actually a few weeks after the final part of the end of the Masech of Bab Basra. We saved the last piece so that we'll actually finish it off. Then we say the Hadron, which is a beautiful prayer that really expresses the idea that we just want to return back to you. The way we look in Judaism and knowledge is not something that, once you get it, you got it, it's done. It's not like that. Hadron, allah means we're coming back to you. Our goal is not to go away, we're done.
16:30 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
We finished the book.
16:31 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
I read it once before. The prayer at the end is to return to it. That's what the prayer is You'll return to me, we'll return to you. It's like a friend and you're going to meet up again. And this is not goodbye, this is just till next time. And that's really the feeling, and that's that prayer, and that's what we're connecting with. And then we celebrate the beginning of the new study, new cycle. We're continuing, we're not stopping, and that's the celebration. It'll be, with delicious food, song and dance and an amazing experience.
17:05 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
And it's free. Everyone is welcome to join. You can go to siyumtorchweborg. Siyum is S-I-Y-U-M dot. Torchweb dot org.
17:16 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
We encourage everyone to join to participate, rsvp and join, and we'd love to see you and if you're courageous enough, join the Dafyomi.
17:25 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
I actually have Gary, who you know well, and he was intrigued by one of the uh dafiyomi celebrations and he's like I want to do this, let me, let me try, why not? And he came, he started and he came for years and years.
17:39 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
he came, every single, I'll tell you. I'll tell you where it started. Oh, um, we had the only mood here in houston. Oh, that's correct, and I didn't. I had not, I had not, I had no time because I've been giving Dafyomi to prepare a class. I said, you know what I'll just give today's Daf, whatever it's about, and that's what I put in. You know, shavuos, it was something that page. And I said that's the class that I'm giving. And he sat in years and years and he literally learned a very large portion of Talmud just from that, it was so unbelievable.
18:12
Him and another fellow came from that same Yom Levit, lawrence Lawrence. Yeah, lawrence Levy, absolutely.
18:19 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
Amazing Such heroes, amazing, amazing. It's Rabbeinu Mazel Tov Mazel.
18:24 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
Tov on this tremendous accomplishment.
18:28 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
And to all of our listeners out there, we encourage you, take the time, join ADafi Omi. It doesn't have to be the Houston Dafi Omi. You can listen on podcast. You can listen, you can watch videos.
18:37 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
If you're scared, you could just try out the podcast. Listen, there's a lot of. You're part of a group. You're part of a group of friends. Everyone's open. You can ask questions. Nobody has to feel afraid to ask.
18:51 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
And what I love to tell people is that it's your daf, it's yours, it belongs to you. The Torah doesn't belong to the rabbis, you don't need a special king to get in.
18:57 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
It's yours.
19:05 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
Morasha Kehilas Yaakov, okay. Yashar koach. Thank you so much.
19:07 - Intro (Announcement)
Thank you for listening to the Unboxing Judaism podcast. We want your questions. If you'd like your question featured in a future episode, please email us at unboxing@torchweb.org. We look forward to hearing from you.