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Welcome to the Love, Sex, and Leadership Podcast, where insightful dialogues and transformative teachings await. Join Aaron Kleinerman on a journey to explore the intersections of love, sexuality, and leadership. Through candid conversations with experts and live audio teachings, Aaron creates a safe space for self-discovery and empowerment. Embrace your true power, awaken your soul's wisdom, and live an inspired life as a natural, intuitive, and heart-centered leader. Dive into the mysteries of the universe and unlock the secrets to mastering the human experience. Tune in and embark on a path of profound transformation.
Ep 12 Pushing the Edges of Leadership (with Jamin Heppell)
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Love Sex and Leadership podcast where you can discover simple tantric teachings to embody your true power awaken your soul's wisdom and live an inspired life as a natural intuitive and heart centered leader
Aaron: Welcome everyone to this conversation for love, sex and leadership. I am super inspired and excited to have a dear brother, a friend who's been in my life for Quite a few years now. And, you know, just in my opinion is one of the most inspirational go getting type of men I know on this planet. If there's a, there's a mountain to climb literally or a marathon to run literally, this is a man that you want on your side.
So thank you, Jamin, for being here on
this episode of the podcast.
Jamin: So great, Aaron. It's exciting to be here, man.
Aaron: Yeah. So I just want to say, I, you know, we met several years [00:01:00] ago. I actually came to one of our Living Tantra retreats and had a deep dive. And then I witnessed and got to support you through the, through the, through the years, your transition with your now business partner, Jenny, and just what I've seen is a, is a man that has, you know, had a goal in mind and has gone out there pushing the edges of leadership.
And your own edges of, of, of comfortability and uncomfortability. And just said, Hey, this is the world I want to create. This is what I want to do. And this is how I want to show up. So I just want to say from brother to brother, I. Respect you. I love you. And I appreciate what you do and how you show up in
this planet so much, man.
Jamin: Beautiful. Receive brother. And I mean, I know, you know, how much love and reverence and respect to have for you, man, as you have been a mentor and a guide for me over so many years. And so it's it's pretty special to both receive those words and to yeah, meet you on the same stage in this podcast.
Aaron: Absolutely. So yeah, let's, let's talk [00:02:00] about leadership because this is a subject. I know you guys do these big align leadership intensives and really help people find leadership inside yourself. I think the first question I have is like, what drives you to be a healthy embodied leader in the world? Like what is that driving
force for you?
Jamin: Yeah, man, I guess, it kind of stems way back. You know, I remember even as like a kid there were two core themes that ran consistently throughout my entire life ever since I was about the age of 11, which was sport and leadership. And, you know, I think in the early stages a lot of my aspiration to be out the front or, you know, be the house captain or the debate team captain or the football captain.
Part of it stemmed from you know, eldest of three boys and just wanting to receive approval from my dad. That was like a big part of it or receive approval from like them the main authority figure. However, as I've matured [00:03:00] over time and done a lot of work around, like, why do I do what I do?
And is this a response to like unmet needs as a kid? Or is this actually my Dharma and what I'm here to authentically express in the world? And the more I've leaned into that, the more I've recognized like, wow, no, I, I've just naturally gravitated towards leadership and being inspired and curious and passionate about leadership all the way through.
And it's kind of presented itself in different ways, but yeah, it's like when I experienced myself supporting other leaders to step into deeper levels of their authentic expression in the world I have the experience of like, Huh. This is exactly what I'm meant to be doing whilst I'm here on this planet.
Aaron: And and in finding those edges, like what's been, you know, what comes to mind? What's been one of the biggest like challenges of leadership? Let's say I know you're you're facing them a lot of the time, but that comes to mind. Like what's one of the biggest challenges that [00:04:00] you've you've gone head to head with in the last year or decade?
You know what what arrives for you?
Jamin: Yeah, no, so there are two that come to mind immediately. One's kind of like bigger picture and one's more like literally just like a couple of months ago. So for me, I'm all about aligned leadership, which is about. It's effectively the deepest embodiment of walking the talk. It's being in touch with who I am and what I'm out to create in the world.
And then aligning and leading congruently at the level of individual, at the level of family, at the level of community, at the level of organization and having everything orient itself to be congruent with who you say you are and what you're out to create in the world. And so alignment or aligned leadership is the core of what it's all about now.
So when we talk about the challenge for me in the in walking that talk, well, effectively, it's kind of like, well, practicing what I preach, which means the universe is constantly giving me tests and challenges of like, highlighting to me where I'm not living congruent or in alignment [00:05:00] with what I say I'm all about.
And so, you know, man, I think you are intimately in touch with one of the biggest leadership challenges that I've faced, which was, you know, being the the founder and leader alongside my business partner, Jen of Mountains and Marathons and facilitating this six month transformational leadership program called Align, supporting high performing leaders from across Australia and North America and bringing their life into deeper levels of alignment and then ultimately graduating by Running a marathon or climbing a mountain in some epic location around the world.
You know, back in April of 2019 I had, I'd been with Jenny for 18 months at that stage in a romantic context, and we'd been running mountains and marathons for 12 months. And I had the realization that Jenny wasn't my person. She's not the person that I was going to marry. But at that point in time, you know, I remember it so clearly.
I was in I was in Mauritius off the coast of South Africa. You know, we just had a really successful day of business and made tens of thousands of dollars in sales. And we went out for a, a cocktail to [00:06:00] celebrate. And I remember like this moment where we cheered our glasses and there was such a, you know, spirit of celebration in that moment.
But when I took the sip, I just felt this deep, deep heaviness in my belly. And I was like. Oh, what is that? And then when I felt through it, I was like, ah, I know Jenny's not my person,
And here
we are traveling the world, like having this geographic freedom, transforming people's lives, inviting people to, you know, travel the world and take on these epic adventures of running mountains and running marathons and climbing mountains.
But Jenny's not my person. And so then, you know, in the spirit of, of integrity, I communicated that with Jenny, but then both of us were tremendously confronted by what would be the ramifications and impact of us romantically separating. And so that was it took another another 14 months until the two of us actually came together and agreed to mutually agreed that we weren't in alignment romantically and that [00:07:00] we would evolve the context and foundation of our relationship to being romantic partners and transition it solely to being best friends and business partners.
And so when I talk about in reference to like a leadership challenge that 14 months was really because there was an awareness of the misalignment and then there was an incongruent between what I was, how I was being and how we were showing up in the world and what we were teaching. And so I look at that and obviously the most significant lesson there is A, the universe is always going to be
giving you the tests required to step into deeper levels of what you say you're what you're a stand for. And then the second thing was, was like, I got very intimately in touch with what misalignment feels like. So that now moving forwards, whenever that energy shows up in my system, I'm very attuned to it and then can take courageous aligned action far sooner than you know, holding off for 14 months before bringing life into deeper levels of alignment.
So [00:08:00] that's the first one, brother. I could share about the second one, but if you want it, if you want a deep dive there, mate, that's a, we can go for it.
Aaron: No, no. I, I really celebrate that. What I hear you saying is that you felt a shift in your body and you could feel that on a mental level, there was a place of, Oh, we're traveling, we're teaching this feels great. But there was something inside the body that said, this doesn't feel right. And you listened.
And, and you listened and you took action from that place. And I remember at times guiding you and supporting you in this, this journey at the time, and yeah, I just want to like celebrate you, especially as a man, you know, cause what I hear you saying is you're listening to the deeper threads inside your body and you weren't necessarily listening to just your mind.
I mean, Jenny's a beautiful, amazing human and, and, you know, you guys had a beautiful relationship, but yet there was something else that was guiding you and you felt that inside your body and you have the capacity to make the choice. And that's something I see [00:09:00] so often. It's like there's a wisdom in the body and the question for so many people, and I'm sure viewers who are listening is like, are we actually listening?
Are we actually listening to what the body's saying? Or are we just continuing to
push it aside?
Jamin: Yes, man. And that's it. And then, cause then it's like, it's a, it's a, it's a series of steps. Cause one is it's about cultivating that the sensitivity to actually listen to what's being communicated. And then from that place, once then it's, it's one thing to actually get the place where we can listen and hear what the soul is calling for.
And then it's another thing all together to take aligned action. And that's the jump that real it's like, okay, now I'm now I'm in touch with what misalignment feels like. I recognize and I know deep down that change is necessary, but then the next real piece is like, okay, rubber hitting the road and taking aligned action.
And I think that's where, that's the next step is like, once we're in touch with truth, [00:10:00] how do we then align our life with truth?
Aaron: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And, and align it in a way in which we're not getting, you know, bogged down by the this insistent drive to push ourselves to prove ourselves as worthy. You know, that's one thing I see around leadership is a lot of men, especially are leading, but often it's coming from a place of world.
Please see me, see me. I want to be seen. And actually, can I just listen to the alignment inside that isn't seeking validation, but it's actually just expressing itself through the naturalness within, and that's really how I feel you and how I see
you expressing the world.
Jamin: Mm. Beautiful. Thank you for that reflection, man. I really received that in. And yeah, man, I mean, you even look just the nature of a lot of the men who participate in the Aligned Leadership Program, like typically, you know, high performing corporate leaders who, when they've actually, when they're invited into the deeping questions of like, why do you do what you do. [00:11:00] Often
the answer is, is like, well, I've just kind of been doing what's being put in front of me and what I've always been told I should do. But in reality, Jamin, like if you really want to know what I want to do, like what I actually love to do is just run a small business where I'm selling coffees in the local corner store.
And I'm like, Okay. That's interesting. And then, you know, sure enough, across the course of six months, we've seen some pretty some pretty powerful decisions being made and and, and life reorientations occurring because it's like, well, you know, we're only here, we only got one life and the fact of the matter is, is like so many people abandon themselves you know, for what they see is like, you know, making it in a professional sense where they're, they're sacrificing so much fulfillment and contentment and happiness that would be available if they actually listen to what their spirit is guiding them towards and then just discovering what shows up when they [00:12:00] take that, make those courageous moves.
Aaron: Mhm. So the discernment between like driving ourselves to be successful and actually driving ourselves to listen to the chords of the soul
inside.
Jamin: That's it, man. That's it. And it's just like, yeah, it just lives inside the spirit of like, does it feel expansive? Does it feel inspiring? Does it nourish the soul? And if like, if the answer's yes, then go for it. And if the answer's no, well, look at what it looked like. Really question whether the current trajectory that you're on is, is going to be of greater service in
in the now, and then also in the bigger picture. And obviously the answer is always it's soul crushing when people continue to stick around doing things that they deep down and surface level resist, but pretend to love.
Aaron: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. For sure. You know, and, and for those listening, Jamin and I were just chatting before this call and we're actually [00:13:00] preparing a really exciting trip on to climb one of the highest mountains in the world, which I'm a little bit like, Oh my God, what are we actually doing? And we're going to speak more into that, but I just want to say, you know, when we were talking, he was doing a check in, we were looking at dates and things.
He was telling me, you know, he's an ultra marathoner. And I, you know, and I said to him, like, what, what's the, what's the, why, like, what's the why that drives you as a human to, you know, run marathons, not just an ultra marathon at like sea level, but an ultra marathon at high elevations that like, I think you say like 50 percent of the people don't even make it.
So, and I said, I want to bring that to our podcast conversation. So I knew we were doing this. So I'd love to know your why, like what drives you to run marathons at high altitudes, to do the things that you do, like when you've reached that like point and your body's breaking down and you're like, ah, okay, what the, why did I do this?
What the fuck am I doing? Like, tell me, tell me and everyone else that's listening. I'm curious.
Jamin: [00:14:00] Look, I read the, the, the, the funny metaphoric answer would be like, I've definitely got a bit of a loose screw. Like I'm not, I'm not I'm not all there like that's that. I think there's something semi factually accurate about that, but but no, Matt, beyond that so I grew up in a in a, in a incredibly athletic competitive household, oldest of three boys.
My father was an athlete. And, you know, being a professional athlete was ultimately what I aspired to be when I was younger. And then, you know, at the age of 10, I had had my first knee surgery, having cartilage removed at the age of 16. I had again, cartilage removed on my left and my right knee at 18.
I had my first knee reconstruction, 22. I had my second knee reconstruction in 24. I had more cartilage removed. So by the age of 24, I'd had six knee surgeries. And so in that journey I'd really had to let go of the vision of and dream of being a professional athlete. And and so, you know, I sort of reoriented my focus to be [00:15:00] more on academics and then doubling down on leadership coaching and building, you know, organizations that would benefit the community with youth youth leadership development work that when I started to, like, shift my focus in my early 20s, in a way, I kind of abandoned this part of me
that really did yearn to express myself fully athletically. And it was across the court, you know, it was over the next years up until the age of 27, where I kind of became a bit of a workaholic where I was, you know, the way I describe it now is like, I was addicted to service where I was running, you know, two independent.
nonprofit organizations that were doing great work with young people in in Victoria and Australia, but I really wasn't taking care of myself like I was living deeply misaligned, not taking care of my physical body, my nutrition, my social life, like connection with family. It was just all work and as a result, I was becoming more and more miserable, less and less happy, more anxious and, [00:16:00] you know, lacking inspiration.
And I remember it was in July of 2016 when I had a breakdown, I had my, I remember I was home alone, had my head in my hands and I started bawling my eyes out. And I was just like, I was 26 years old and I was like, what the hell is this all for? And then after a couple of hours of having a really heavy emotional release, I had a simple but profound epiphany.
I realized, I was like, I created this mess. Like I created all of my suffering. And so I thought to myself, okay, well, if I created this and I could, I could create anything. I could create my way out of it. And I thought, okay, well, if I could get anything in the world right now, what would I actually be doing?
And it hit me an instant. I was like, Oh, like you give me a blank canvas. I'd be running marathons, climbing mountains, traveling the world, transforming my life and working out some way to help other people do the same. And so I then spent three hours downloading this vision and I called it mountains and marathons.
And so in that part of the original vision, [00:17:00] was I'm going to run a marathon and climb a mountain on every continent. And the thesis of the, that the hypothesis was, there is no way that I could do that and be the same person that I am now. So it was this kind of combination of coming from a having a real passion for athletic pursuit and pushing boundaries when I was younger.
And having that as a dream, but then having, then letting go of that. And then in this moment of I guess breakdown slash kind of awakening was then getting like allowing myself to get in touch back in touch with this spirit for adventure and allowing physical challenge to be a source of transformation.
So that's one part of it. The second part of it is as of right now, I'm 33 years old. When my dad, who I just love and revere so much, when he was 33, he got diagnosed with a with a chronic cerebrospinal condition, which effectively impacted the the, the, the [00:18:00] message pathway between brain and his muscles on the left hand side of his body.
And so what that meant was over time, the left side of his body would atrophy. And, and, and he would lose, he would lose muscle. And I remember watching him as a kid, you know, cause he was so, he was such a, a, an athlete. I remember watching him, he'd go for a run. And when he'd returned from the run, I'd look at his t shirt and on his back, there was a line straight down the middle of the t shirt where half his body was covered in sweat.
And the other half was completely dry. And the left side of his body was shutting down. And what I realized, well, what I got in touch with is as I saw my father become more and more decrepit and more and more disabled was, I was like, wow, you know, he was 33 when he got diagnosed with this incurable condition, which, you know, he's 63 now, but struggles to walk and won't be too far out of a wheelchair.
I looked at that and It was like, you know what, you know, here I am, late 20s I'm not going to leave this physical body to chance. I'm not [00:19:00] gonna, I'm not gonna wait to find out what this physical body is actually capable of and where my limits are later in life. No, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna show up and I'm gonna do that now.
I'm gonna discover that now. And then you know, and then in time, if my body starts to slow down, so be it. But now I'm going to make the most of this incredibly, this this miracle of a, of a vessel that we have. I'm going to make the most of it now and see what it's capable of. And so, yeah, man, in the spirit of running marathons, climbing mountains, I ran
I think five, five marathons. And then I met a guy who was into ultra marathons and he said, I think this would be up your alley. And you know, I wasn't really interested in running marathons faster. I was like, cool like what's the next level of this. And so, that was when I got to discover the the world of ultra.
So my first ultra marathon was running from Levina to Semenyak across from north to south of Bali And then my commitment has been once a year I take on some kind of epic beastie ultra challenge to keep myself sharp and and also test what this what this vessel's capable of.
Aaron: But this body is able to do [00:20:00] it. The story I love sharing when I'm like, Oh yeah, my, my friend, Jamin, and you know, we're preparing cause last year I got the pleasure of hiking Kilimanjaro with you. And which was amazing. It was something I'd always wanted to do. And it was incredible to see like your resilience and the capacity to move and get through like so many layers of your physical body at such a high elevation where you see people just like knocked out and passed out.
I remember you telling me that, you know, you were up a few years before that and do like with all of these amazing world athletes and doing a you know, basically an obstacle course at the top of Kilimanjaro. I'm like, who the, who the fuck does an obstacle course at the top of Kilimanjaro? I'm like, I know a guy, I know a guy who does that and does, you came in like fourth or fifth.
I was like, yeah, that's, that's the way I usually like. Yeah. If you were to climb. And do an obstacle course at the top of one of the highest mountains in the world. And then almost win. Yep. This is the
guy.
I want to meet. I [00:21:00] want to introduce you to Jamin.
Jamin: Yeah. man. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the high altitude bit's interesting because I mean, that's the big question. Anyone who's stepping onto Mount Kilimanjaro for the first time or, you know, going to climb a mountain like Aconcagua in Argentina, like independent of how much physical preparation is done.
One of the big questions that always remains unanswered until you're actually on the mountain is how is your body going to respond in altitude? And, you know, I've been really fortunate. You know, obviously have a tremendous amount of experience climbing up, climb out Kilimanjaro 10 times now.
I've been to Everest Base Camp twice and, you know, climb some other incredible mountains around the world. But I think you know I'm I'm fortunately genetically gifted to actually acclimatize and respond really well to altitude and elevation relative to your average human being. And so even the guides of Mount Kilimanjaro who have climbed this mountain, like, you know, 150 times, they, they'll even comment when we get down the bottom, they're like, [00:22:00] Jamin, how do you do it?
And I remember one time, I remember one time I just said lots of peanut butter guys. Lots of peanut butter. And they're like,
they're like, really? And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Aaron: Yeah, no it's, it's amazing to witness that and to, to see your dedication to this path and to the level of, of integrity that you bring along the way with it. It's really beautiful to see that. And you know, one of the to people listening, one of the things that we are planning, you know, as much to my own butterflies burning inside is that, you know, the end of February of 2025, we're going to be taking a group of men up of up Aconcagua, which is the highest mountain in South America.
We have a friend and mentor of mine from many years ago who led a group of guys up there. So it feels super exciting. One of the things I said to myself, turning [00:23:00] 40 this last year, which is one of the reasons I climbed Kili, I said, all right, I'm going to test my physical body and find where that is each and every year.
So we just found out, actually, it looks like I'll be turning, you know, 42 at the time in which we'll be probably maybe even some of it, who knows, but you know, around that time. So that feels like such a, a milestone for me in my own journey between leadership as well as staying connected to my physical body endurance.
Jamin: No, it is. It's and it's a, it's a real like, it's the beautiful meeting place for the two of us too, brother. You know, in the spirit of leadership, as well as satiating this appetite and curiosity for adventure and really, you know, finding new depths and parts of ourselves that come alive in these you know, in these adventure adventurous environments.
So the prospect of yeah, bringing together, a really high performing, powerful group of men to, to take on Aconcagua and discover, you know, new layers of leaderships and depths of resilience and ways of [00:24:00] being in the world. It's it's really inspiring, really exciting, man. And again, Aconcagua is one that I'm yet to to step into.
And so this I don't necessarily, I don't think I've got the same level of butterflies that you've got, but there's the, the, the spirit of fuck yeah is like Oh that's good I;m actually glad you have less butterfly that that literally felt good
Aaron: you know, in, in the spirit of leadership and, and also, you know, the work that I know both you and I are doing as well as seeing what's happening in the globe right now, you know, seeing what's happening on a, on a political standpoint on a, you know, many different levels. I'm, I'm, I think the question I bring in and I'm curious to hear your take is with like embodied, true, aligned leadership, how can you know, this work that we're doing and supporting clients with and helping people come into their, can we make a change in the future in terms of what's happening on a, on a [00:25:00] global
you know, microeconomic level on a political level and all the different, very unhealthy forms of leadership that are there. I'm curious, like what your take is. I don't try to get too involved into all of that, but I also like to be present that there's a lot of things happening in the world right now, especially when it comes to
leadership.
Jamin: Yeah man. I mean, like as the eternal optimist that I am and just the nature of standing for inspiring possibilities for the future. Like, I would have to say like, yes, like change, change is possible. But the nature of like what I believe is that like just like any form of change and transformation. It has to start from the individual and it has to start from within.
And that's kind of, you know, there's obviously many different ways of initiating and facilitating change in the world. And each person's got to find their own kind of you know, Karmic expression of that. But for me, it's about working with high performing, influential, powerful individuals to be able to support them, to be able to access and, you know, heal that which is [00:26:00] not aligned with, you know, their vision for what they want to create in the world and supporting them to lead from a place of deeper embodied alignment and then be able to be a model and a transmission of what it looks like to lead authentically at the level of family, at the level of organization.
And then, if we want to get to the level of systemic change, you know, politicians and some of the world's biggest business leaders, like celebrities, et cetera, you know, it's about being able to bring some of the most influential and powerful people on the planet to be more in touch with their own integrous expression of leadership.
And then being willing to be a stand for the kind of change that we need to see in the world. I mean, so much of the challenges that we, that we face as a society have stemmed from, you know, quite juvenile masculine leadership. And, you know, I really believe that it's the, it's the growing up from that juvenile
nature where, you know, men can really stand in grounded, empowered, embodied, masculine leadership and have mastery in specific areas of [00:27:00] integrity of emotional mastery, relationship mastery you know, and actually be able to relate with fellow brothers from a place of collaboration and cooperation as opposed to killer competition.
You know, these are important transformations that need to occur, and I think they really do start from the at the level of individual.
Aaron: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah, I love that. And It's what I'm hearing you say is that, you know, there can be to make the change on the outside. We really have to make the change on the inside. We have to shift the frequency of how we're leading, of how we're showing up as a father, as a business owner, as a partner, you know, it's not just what we're doing in the boardroom, but it's also, you know, connected to the bedroom as well.
Yeah. And that's, you know, that's a big part of, you know, one of the reasons that I've, I've started this conversation and this podcast is to have these conversations around sexuality and love and as well as leadership and to feel this intersection between, you know, [00:28:00] the bedroom to the boardroom. And, you know, it kind of brings me to another point.
I know you've kind of publicly shared it as well, but I, this past year you've been doing a feminine fast. This is what you called it, you know, a complete separation from from feminine and I'd love to hear your experience of that as well as like the why behind it, you know, when you first reached out to me, I was like, I celebrate it.
I appreciate your your sovereign choice. It's not my journey, but I could see how it's been benefit how it could be beneficial. So I'd love to hear, you know, for people listening, what your experience has been with that and as well, how it feels it's going to be ending, I think, coming up shortly, I believe, and just how that's
all present and alive for you?
Jamin: Yeah, beautiful, man. Thanks for asking. And you know, again, it's just the nature of as far as if I'm to, if we're to zoom out the highest level, as far as like even building off the principle that I was just speaking about, you know, for me saying yes to this feminine, feminine fast or [00:29:00] feminine cleanse, feminine healing journey is really a part of my authentic expression of growing up as part of my journey towards deeper levels of embodied masculine leadership and being the change that I wish to see in the world.
Now, totally get that this level, like this kind of initiation is not for everybody and not necessarily a part of everybody's path. But to share some context as to why I chose to lean into this. And perhaps even before I go there, just, I might just share like what the parameters are. So people have a, an understanding of like
Aaron: For sure. For sure.
Jamin: cleanse.
So, yeah, so in essence the, the kind of feminine yeah, feminine. fast that I've opted into involves no sex, no dating, no flirting no intimacy, no porn, no scrolling on Instagram, checking out attractive Facebook women, women on Facebook, Instagram you know, no seeing an attractive woman and doing the double take, no lingering eye contact with the hot barista.
Like, you know, none of [00:30:00] it like, like a complete letting go of all ways in which as I would describe now that men get the hit from feminine connection. And so, and so that's kind of what it, that that's what it has entailed. Now, as far as like what inspired this, so in 2022 I was single for the first time in a long time and have been, yeah, I guess traveling the world and leading mountains and marathons and had the incredible yes, space and an opportunity to be in connection with some really incredible women.
And in that time, like in my, in my heart, in my spirit, I knew that I wasn't available nor seeking committed romantic partnership. But it was very much in the spirit of connection and loving to loving meeting new people and having you know, having incredibly fun and meaningful connections and experiences. And Across 2022 I just had, I had a, had a year of like fun. And when I was returning back to Australia. Because I'd been away for three years when I was returning back to [00:31:00] Australia in 20, in December of 2022 you know, one of the first questions on my mind was I wonder who I'm going to connect with when I'm back in Australia.
And sure enough, within a week of returning back to Australia, I had four dates lined up and as I was, you know, and I went on these dates, but what was interesting is in the lead up to these dates, I already knew that there was two women who I knew I wouldn't be interested in having a second date with.
But there I was like saying yes. And, you know, I was going to show up and, and, you know, just be in the, in the, in the spirit of connection. And I thought, how that's interesting. I'm like, why am I doing that? And then and then what happened was I started to map out my 2023. And I was gearing it to basically be a replication of 2022 because it was so fun.
And then what I did after I'd kind of like got in touch and started like mapping out how fun this year was going to be, I future cast [00:32:00] myself to December of 2023, which is literally where we are now. Like I future cast myself to now. And in my body, I just felt empty. I felt like empty and unsatiated.
And I was like, ha, that's interesting. I'm like, 2022 was so nourishing and so fun and so, and in a way so fulfilling, but to repeat that would actually be not fulfilling. And I was like, ha, that's interesting. What's that? And then when I felt through it, I was like, ah, 2022, I kind of got to run this teenage energy that had been that had been unexpressed.
For my, like, you know, for, for, for 15 years or so, and in 2022, I got to run that energy and that energy has now run its course and I'm now stepping. I'm now, like, ready to mature and evolve into a new level of relating a new level of, of being and so that was so that that was kind of all [00:33:00] context also in December of 2022
I'd, I'd been a participant on a seven day spiritual retreat in Mexico. And the constellation of participants on this retreat was fascinating. I was the youngest male by 22 years. The next youngest male was 53. Maybe it was about 20 years, but he was like 53. And then there were five other men who were all older than 53.
So, so that was like, and there was like seven men and then there was 20, I think you had 21 female participants with the youngest being like 30 and the oldest being in mid fifties. So it was this really interesting constellation of people. And anyhow, the feedback that I got from the, the leader of that retreat, was Jamin, you've got work to do around your around how you show up in spaces around women.
And if I was your coach, I'd be telling you to have a, at least a six month feminine cleanse, feminine [00:34:00] fast. And so he had like planted this seed and also given me something to look at. Energetically, as far as how I showed up in spaces with women, which like surprised me, and I wasn't quite in touch with what he was speaking about.
That's also been one of the things that I've got to discover intimately across the course of this year. So with the combination of that seed plant, as well as me starting to observe my patterns and recognizing are there some kind of big initiation in relation to my relationship with the feminine here.
When I started to feel into the possibility of doing a feminine fast, I was like, I was like, damn, this feels edgy. This feels fucking scary. This feels, but I'm like, I want to say it feels unnecessary, but then there's part of my spirit that's like, you know, you got to do this brother.
Aaron: Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm.
Jamin: And so again, similar thing to like, you know, choosing to separate from Jenny, it's just like, all right, there's a choice that like, yes, you're empowered to choose, but there's also a choicelessness when I'm really [00:35:00] committed to honoring what my soul is calling for. And so, yeah, man, in February, I you know, I intuitively felt into what would be the duration of time that I would commit to this.
And 12 months was what immediately came through. So I'm like, okay, that's it. I'm going to dedicate myself and commit myself to a 12 month feminine fast beginning in February. And so now here we are in December. It's been 10 months, two months, two months to go per se. And admittedly, it has been one of the most transformative journeys of my entire life.
I can speak into all layers of detail, but yeah, I certainly have no regrets and it's been profoundly insightful and revealed a tremendous number of patterns and layers of my being that I've been able to heal and mature from and, and feel very excited about who I get to be and how I get to be in the world as a man and in relationship with women.
When I emerge from this this fast.
Aaron: Yeah. Amazing. Well, yeah, I just wanna, I, I celebrate your go-getter mentality. You know, when you told me. [00:36:00] I was like, oh no, he's not going to do three months, he'll do six months, he'll do a year.
Jamin: Yeah, dude, I don't do anything in halves.
Aaron: No, no, and I love that and I can really sense in, in what you've gone through and what you're learning from and then how you get to now show up into, you know, ultimately relationship with yourself, but relationship with another, you know, I think it's, it's definitely not everyone's medicine, but I think utilizing it in that way
can be super beneficial. I just, the question I have and the, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, is like, when I hear that I, like, I would, you know, one of the big parts of how I work with men is kind of the feminine initiation and have having men meet their own feminine inside. And so how has the, the cultivation
of your own relationship with your own inner feminine bin through this last year? Like what have you noticed? What have been the challenges? What have been the celebrations?[00:37:00]
Jamin: Beautiful. What a great question, man. And I mean, obviously, yeah, you and I have done so much work or you've guided me to do so much work around this already. And so, yeah, part of the intent in this was like, yeah, really deepening my relationship with my inner feminine in a really distraction less space.
So I guess to share just a touch of the journey. You know, in the early stages. So, first of all, two of the most transformative weeks of this entire journey was the two weeks before I started. Because in order to step into the feminine cleanse, I actually had to cut all romantic and flirtatious ties with any women who are in my field.
And so that I think I, yeah, I wrote down a list and included a list of 15 women of which five I was actively in conversation with in a, in a, you know, romantic sense. And then there were another 10 where I, you know, a part of my heart lit up every time I you know, I got excited every time I saw their name pop up on my you know, on my text message thread.
And so that was kind of the gauge. It was like anyone who likes stirs a little [00:38:00] bit of like, it's good to hear from them. They went on the list. And so, the first two weeks or the two weeks before starting was actually getting in communication with all of these women and letting them know the choice that I'd made and what my request was of not being in communication for 12 months.
Now, inside of that, there were three women in particular where I had a deep level of love and actual like attachment to the heart, the fabric of our relationship. And so that was some tremendously vulnerable and you know, sad and grief, grief, grief oriented phone calls. That we had as I was like letting go of the heart of these connections to create the space for me to authentically step into this feminine cleanse.
So that was the first part, man, because the insight that I got there was also recognizing, wow, like my heart is, has not been available for relationship because the energy of my heart has been dispersed across so many women and I'm like, huh, that's a cool thing to distinguish. And now actually just come back to a, a, a [00:39:00] completely neutral clear plate.
So that was like the first part. The second part, however, man was then in honoring every layer of these, the commitment of, you know, no, no flirting, no flirting, no sex or intimacy, no dating, no Instagram scrolling was then recognizing how much of a I call it the feminine hit, like how much my my response in moments of my reaction in moments when I would be feeling self doubt when I'd be feeling insecure when I'd be feeling vulnerable that my, my unconscious default reaction would be to seek connection
with the feminine.
Aaron: Mm.
Jamin: And so that would be like, that would be the phone call, that would be the text, that would be the Insta scroll, like just something that would like, give me the hit to take me away from this insecurity or pain or vulnerability that I was feeling. And so it really revealed like the unconscious patterns that I would have to like, reach out for external connection with the [00:40:00] feminine.
So that was the first part. So then I, so then what happened is because that was no longer an option I then started to, binge on junk food, drink excessive coffee binge on YouTube, do deep Instagram scrolls, hang out on Facebook, like all of this, you know, be the pool to watch porn, but not watching porn, but then masturbating, like just all of these dopamine.
Whoa, I've just moved from one dopamine hit to another. And then I'm like, shit, if I actually really want to get the healing that's available here, I need to go on a dopamine detox.
Aaron: Mm mm-Hmm.
Jamin: That was when I
I leveled it, I guess I leveled it up again or took the next necessary step, which was like, cutting all junk food, cutting excessive coffee.
No more YouTube, no more Instagram, no more Facebook. Being very intentional about when I chose to masturbate and ejaculate. And in that, once I removed all of these hits of dopamine I, it was, it was really challenging [00:41:00] cause I just got bored as fuck, but
Aaron: What do I do?
There's to.
Jamin: Oh man, just pull me away from the boredom.
.
And so
that was part of it though, was like then learning to sit and be with what was actually there and start to notice all the ways in which historically I would distract myself. And for the first time in my life, I would actually simply sit and be with and observe what was showing up. And so whether that was boredom, whether that was loneliness, whether that was disempowering internal dialogue, like whatever it was, I started to create space for just sitting and being with and listening to what was present, what was alive.
And then that was when the real healing began because that was when I, I got to start self resourcing and providing myself with the, with, with my own love and self healing journey, which effectively was me then sourcing [00:42:00] nourishment from my own feminine and building relationship with her and trusting that and cultivating that internal trust.
I've always got me and no matter what's going on, I can, I can internally resource and I can be with whatever level of pain and discomfort is showing up in my spirit without the need to seek some kind of, reprieve from something out there. I can actually facilitate that and, and resource internally. So the first four months were excruciating.
And then after four months, I then kind of started to get used to this, like being wee bit. And then the last, well, the last four months, I'm now at 10 months. So from six months onwards it's actually been quite a profound journey of of feeling more grounded and centered and unified within myself than any other chapter in in any other moment in, in my entire life.
Aaron: Beautiful. Yeah. I really honor your journey. And what I'm really hearing you say is that you've [00:43:00] deepened into your relationship with your own inner feminine. It's once the distractions really fell away and you've been able to ground and land and integrate all of these pieces together more and more.
And yeah, when I, when I hear that, I really, it, I can appreciate the depth of doing an initiation of that little, I think sometimes, you know, and I'm sure you've heard other times I hear men doing like a feminine fast and then as soon as they're done, they're back having, you know, five, six lovers and, you know, masturbating every day.
It's like, okay, what did you just do? Is there any shift or change? What was the purpose of that?
Jamin: Exactly, exactly. And that's, and that's, it's a good point to make because like, sure, you can say yes to this kind of thing for the, for the challenge to say that you've done it. But I mean, that's not the game that I play. I'm not interested in that. It's like, no, there's actually a, there's a deeper layer to this.
But one story I will tell brother is like inside this commitment, like the universe [00:44:00] has just continually thrown tests like to like to test my resolve. And this is this is probably this was this is a real like awakening for me. I was in Kauai in in Hawaii, the most Northwest Island, and I'd been there for five weeks and I was absolutely loving Kauai.
Like just every, every part of that experience was just magic. And part of me was like, wow, I think I could probably see myself maybe living here. Like I'm vibing with the community, everything. It's like really speaking my, like speaking of my soul. And so I started thinking about, wow, could I, maybe I'd actually live here.
And then, it was a Friday night. I was leaving on the Wednesday. It was a Friday night. I was sitting on the beach. I'd lit a fire and then this guy walked out from one of like the mansions that sit right on the beach of Hanalei Bay and he said, Oh, who's the, who's the guy in the hat? And I turned around, I'm like, Oh mate, are you, are you Aussie?
And he's like, nah, nah, Kiwi. And he's like, Oh, come on over. So we started having this chat and he's like, look, my name's Matt. Hey this is cool. Look, I'm having my [00:45:00] birthday. It's my birthday today. I'm having a big party tomorrow night. You should come. And I was like, mate, I'd love to. And so, you know, I had a bit of a sense of who this dude was.
And I'm like, I'm really curious to see, you know, who his community is amidst Hanalei and you know, and his, his fiance was a gorgeous woman and, and all of this. And so, anyway, so I rolled in the following on the Saturday night to this party and you know, within five minutes of rocking out this, gorgeous, gorgeous woman like comes over and goes, Hi, my name is Rae.
What's your name? And I'm like, I'm Jamin. And then she's like, what do you do? And I said you know, I sort of shared a little bit about, you know, I'm a leadership coach of mountains and marathons is what I do. She's like, Oh, that's really cool. I'm a life coach too. And then my brain, I'm just gone. I'm just like, Oh, I mean, I'm like, I'm like, I want to live here.
You know, here we are, you know, in this bloody beautiful spot, Rae, like just full of just life and confidence and conviction and she's a life [00:46:00] coach, lives here. I'm like, fuck, I'm like, maybe this is just how it's meant to be. Like maybe I found my person, you know, this is all in a fucking 10 minutes, right?
Aaron: As it goes.
Jamin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then
sure enough, she goes.
She goes cool. So, she goes, Oh, do you want to, shall we head outside? And I was like, sure, sounds great. And I'm thinking, cool, like, let's go and find a spot. We can just like deepen the conversation. This has gone really well. And then we go and sit down and she goes in down and sits down on the lap of her friend and then very consciously sits with her back
towards me and I was left with like, I'm sitting there going, okay, wasn't expecting that bit unsure about how to navigate this one right now, feeling a little bit awkward, thought we had a good thing going on, clearly not what you want. And I was then left in this whole world of like, fuck, like, what did I do? What did I say?
How did I miss the signs? Like, you know, and then I'm just like, just trying to keep myself [00:47:00] busy and occupied talking to other people whilst I'm grieving and, and, and in this whole world of feeling like completely rejected. And anyway, as it all came about, like she was actually hooking up with another dude who became a good friend of mine across the course of my time in Kauai, which I didn't know.
But I was just like, you know, it took me like three days to get over it. And then I had this realization. I was, then I had the epiphany of like full, like, dude, the universe is watching, man, and the universe is going to keep throwing, it's going to keep throwing out these tests, and, you know, if you're, are you a man of your word or not?
Like, you've committed to this 12 month feminine cleanse but here you are entertaining the possibility of of, of, like, hooking up and potentially marrying this woman that you've met six months in and I was just, I was just left with, okay, okay, I get how this works. Thank you universe. Got it. You actually have my back.
It's a very mean, it's a very mean way to give me the lesson, [00:48:00] but I hope you're having a good laugh up there, but I've got the message.
Aaron: Huh. Received. Thank you so much. Received completely. Yeah.
Jamin: Yeah.
Aaron: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kauai is such an amazing island. I was as you were sharing, I was thinking about a very different story of myself,
actually. Good for you you asshole it was a, it was a funny story years ago and we'll go into it here, but it's a good one.
Jamin: Off the record.
Aaron: Off the record, off the record. But yeah, man, I just want to I want to appreciate you. I want to appreciate the man you show up as on the planet and, and how, the level of vulnerability I'm witnessing even you in this conversation and just what you're bringing in and what you're communicating. It really is it's beautiful.
I can, you know, I can feel the depth of the beings that you impact with your leadership, with your vulnerability, with your power. And I'm very grateful to have you as a a [00:49:00] friend, as a brother as a, you know, to co creator in this planet and to super excited about our journey coming up in Aconcagua next year.
And it feels, feels absolutely perfectly aligned. So before we close anything you want to leave with the listeners around what we've been talking about, or if there's something, you know, a short piece around, you know, a, you could say embodied leadership and really pushing the edges of leadership that would support someone
listening.
Jamin: Nice man. Well, first of all, thank you so much brother. And it would be remiss of me not to complete by acknowledging the contribution that you have personally been to my evolution. Cause who you have been for me is a boundless permission field to lean into my tender edges to become more and more of myself and that that there is it's a testament to the work that you've done.
But then also, you know, I get to be a reflection of the way you choose to be a leader in the world and [00:50:00] contribute to people like me. So yeah, man, I just really, I want to say thank you and thank you for seeing me. And yeah, man, like I don't get to be who I am without you, like showing up the level of authenticity and leadership that you show up from.
Aaron: Thank you. Thank you for fully received. Thank you, brother.
Jamin: Yeah man, nice, cool. I think, yeah, I'm in the spirit of in the spirit of your embodied, embodied leadership or aligned leadership embodied masculine leadership, like the core of this conversation, is you know, if you're listening to this and there is any part of you that knows that deeper levels of your authentic expression
and deeper levels of groundedness and personal power and clarity is available to you or that's what you're seeking. Look to those that have done, that have been where you are and done the work to get to a place that you aspire to be. And then listen to those people because they like [00:51:00] success does leave clues and being willing to you know, get out of the mindset of like, I'll figure it out myself and step into layers of courage and humility, whereby there's a willingness to to be led.
My experience has been, that's what's been some of the most impactful and transformative moments in my time, whether that was working with you, Aaron, or other leadership programs that I've done. Yeah, it's been an in touchness with like more is possible, more is available and then being willing to have the humility to seek the guidance of those that are living and breathing what I aspire to live into.
And so. Yeah. So if that's you yeah, I invite you to find your leaders, find your mentors, and you know, if that's Aaron or myself or anybody else, like really invite the the, the point of connection because yeah, everybody needs guides as we transition and move through various forms of initiations in this lifetime and any hero's journey has guides.
So [00:52:00] that would be the thing that I yeah, that I would encourage anyone listening to, to feel into an honor.
Aaron: Amazing, amazing. Thank you, brother. And you can find out so much more about Jamin, I think it's mountainsandmarathons.com is the website with
Jamin: Mountains and marathons, mountainsandmarathons.world
Aaron: .
dot dot world.
Jamin: Damn right, man. Damn right.
Aaron: Boom!
Jamin: We don't go in halves, man. We don't do it in halves.
Aaron: No, not at all. Not at all, man. Well, thank you for being in my life. Thank you for showing up here today. And if you've enjoyed this conversation, this is Love, Sex and Leadership and how really humans can show up with more integration, putting the boardroom to the bedroom and be more alive, charismatic and incredible humans in the planet.
And so we can live and breathe more from the soul. So thank you, brother. I love you. I appreciate you and look forward to
more creations down the line.
Jamin: So great. Love you too, man. Thanks for having me.
[00:53:00]