Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

"Know your stuff, practice, and then just do it and be there."
How do you explain complex ideas without losing your audience? The challenge isn't knowing more—it's helping others understand. For Marketplace host Kai Ryssdal, great communication comes from making difficult topics accessible while holding people's attention. In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Ryssdal joins Matt Abrahams to discuss how to simplify complex information without oversimplifying it, conduct interviews that feel like genuine conversations, and communicate with confidence under pressure. From asking better questions to earning your audience's trust, Ryssdal shares practical techniques for staying present when the stakes are high.

Key Takeaways:
  • Complex ideas become powerful when they're easy to understand. Great communicators don't just share information—they translate it into clear, engaging messages that help others learn without sacrificing nuance.
  • Preparation gives you the freedom to be present. The more thoroughly you prepare, the easier it becomes to listen, adapt, and communicate with confidence when the conversation takes an unexpected turn.

Activity:
  • Rewrite for clarity. Take an email, presentation, or document you've already written and revise it for someone with no background in the topic. Remove jargon, simplify explanations, and make sure every sentence helps your audience understand your message.

Episode Reference Links:
Connect:

 Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (00:59) - Making Complex Ideas Clear
  • (02:24) - Find Your Communication Rhythm
  • (03:30) - Keeping People Listening
  • (04:38) - Better Introductions
  • (05:50) - More Conversational Interviews
  • (08:49) - Getting Conversations Back on Track
  • (10:23) - Communicating Through Uncertainty
  • (12:23) - Managing Speaking Anxiety
  • (14:22) - Recovering from Mistakes
  • (15:39) - Staying Curious
  • (16:42) - When Your Mind Goes Blank
  • (18:05) - The Final Three Questions
  • (21:35) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Kai Ryssdal
Host & Senior Editor of Marketplace | Journalist

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: Know your stuff, practice,
and then just do it and be there.

My name is Matt Abrahams, and I
teach Strategic Communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast,
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today I'm really excited
to speak with Kai Ryssdal.

Kai is the host and senior editor
of Marketplace, an Emmy and Peabody

Award-winning daily show where he
translates complex economic and

business news into engaging, accessible
conversations for millions of listeners.

Before Marketplace, Kai spent eight
years in the United States Navy

and later served as a member of
the United States Foreign Service.

He's renowned for his signature
conversational delivery and

deep economic expertise.

So welcome, Kai.

I am a big listener, to your show.

I enjoy it every day, and a big
thank you to Mary Beth Kirchner

and JJ Yore for the introduction.

Thanks for being here.

Kai Ryssdal: I'm absolutely pleased to.

Matt Abrahams: Okay.

Shall we get started?

Kai Ryssdal: Yeah.

Matt Abrahams: All right.

Uh, you've got a unique gift of
making sense of a lot of really

complex, detailed information.

A lot of the people listening in
are in similar situations where they

have technical, financial, scientific
information they have to get across.

How do you think about making
that content accessible?

Kai Ryssdal: It's important
to understand that I am not

a business and economics guy.

I'm a history and political
science guy from way back, right?

I have not taken economics course number
one in college or in graduate school.

And until I got the job at Marketplace,
I hadn't really given it much thought.

So when I sit down and this holds true for
my entire time at Marketplace, when I sit

down to write the show, I do two things.

I have to make it make sense to
myself what I'm saying, right?

So obviously I have to do some research
and understand what it is, and then

figure out how I'm gonna explain it.

And then, and this is the God's
honest truth I think about how I

would help my mother understand it.

My mom is an 86-year-old woman who,
this is true, does not have an ATM card.

Goes to the bank every Friday
afternoon and cashes a check for $100

to tide her over till next Friday.

So if I can make it make sense to
her then I think I'm doing all right.

The caveat and the catch with
that, of course, is that we

have really sophisticated
listeners to Marketplace, right?

We have folks who work on Wall Street.

We have folks who work in the industry.

We have folks who work in every
possible slice of this economy,

and they understand in depth the
things that I'm talking about.

So make it understandable,
but don't dumb it down.

That's the challenge.

Matt Abrahams: Right.

And are there particular
techniques that you rely on?

Analogies, stories?

Kai Ryssdal: Just a turn of phrase.

This is sort of overly simplistic, but
radio audio, video aside, right, 'cause

that's where podcasts are going or
already are, is a distinctly aural medium.

And so it has to resonate with people.

It has to come off my tongue in a way
that I know what I'm talking about, and

then it has to land with them in a way
that they're gonna be able to absorb it

so that they're not trying to process
the thing I just said while they're

listening to the thing I'm saying now.

So it's a little bit of wordplay,
it's a little bit of humor, it's

a little bit of self-deprecation,
and then the nuts and bolts, right?

Matt Abrahams: And you're
so good at doing that.

I really appreciate this idea that it's
not just landing what you're saying

in the moment, but you don't want it
to distract them from what comes next.

Kai Ryssdal: So that's the difference
between audio and print, right?

When I'm reading a, a newspaper
article or a magazine article, if I

realize that I've blipped out for a
second and I can't remember what this

guy's name is, I can scroll back.

You can do that on a podcast, but you
know, on broadcast audio you can't.

And if you have to do it on podcast
and in digital audio, you're kind

of breaking the rhythm, you know?

Matt Abrahams: Yeah,
there is a rhythm to it.

And you're very good at
keeping things moving.

There's a flow to the work you do.

Are you conscious of that?

Do you think about that?

Kai Ryssdal: Oh, yeah, very much so.

Very much so.

Matt Abrahams: Tell me more about that.

Kai Ryssdal: My job is to make everybody
who's there at the beginning of

the program or the beginning of the
podcast or the beginning of whatever

I'm doing, still be there at the end.

So you weave that through the program.

You make references to things you
have said or are going to say.

You talk about things that are coming up.

Just make people still be there, you know?

If you actually listen to a 28 minute
and 45 second episode of Marketplace,

which is how much time we have my
total content, on days that don't have

a lot of interviews and me content,
my total contribution is three and a

half, maybe four minutes, in 30 second
chunks setting up our reporters, right?

So my job is to make those reporters'
stories sing, and to make people, at

the end of my 30 second introduction,
say, "Oh, wait, now I want to hear

this story," and make them hang
around for another three minutes

and 30 seconds or whatever it is.

And so that's sort of what I do.

Matt Abrahams: When I teach my students,
I use the analogy of being a tour guide.

A good tour guide gets people excited
and keeps them moving throughout

and wanting to see what's next.

Kai Ryssdal: You bet.

But doesn't give it away.

Matt Abrahams: That's exactly right.

Kai Ryssdal: Right?

'Cause if you give it away,
then what are you even doing?

Matt Abrahams: That's right.

You have to make them curious
without revealing too much.

There's a skill to that.

Speaking of the way your show runs
we had Peter Sagal on, who did

Wait Wait… Don't Tell Me!, and
we talked about Introductions.

Many of us are in situations
where we have to introduce people.

You do a lot of
introductions, just like him.

Do you have a way of introducing
people that others could leverage?

Kai Ryssdal: So first of all, just
on my own personal experience and,

and for those out there who wind
up doing a lot of introductions

don't read somebody's CV out loud.

Just don't do that, please.

not only is it mortifying, it's
not edifying for the audience.

Find something personal, find an anecdote,
find something that's gonna make it stick.

That's the only thing I can say.

Make it relevant to the
people to whom this person is

going to be speaking, right?

Introduce them.

Make them make friends, you know, in,
in as short a period as you have to do

it because that's what you have to do.

And when I'm setting up an interview,
it's me and this person for the next four

minutes, and the audience has to be there.

And if you don't have the audience with
you, then you've failed, honestly, right?

And look, I'm a huge fan of Peter's
and Peter does this really well,

you know, and he does it with humor.

He has the benefit actually of
having the live audience, right?

So he's got that feedback mechanism.

Um, but you know, just
make people make friends.

That's it.

Matt Abrahams: I like what you said.

To me, a good introduction, and you
hinted at this, is it's an invitation.

It's an invitation … to wanna hear more.

And you're setting the other person up,
and anecdotes are great ways to do it.

So you interview a wide range of people,
from Fortune 500 CEOs to a small business

owner, and your interviews often feel
very conversational, not very threatening.

Uh, how do you work to make
that conversation happen?

It feels like people are just
talking to you even though there

are many, many people listening in.

Kai Ryssdal: So, this is a
methodology question, right?

Matt Abrahams: Yes.

Kai Ryssdal: Obviously, there's a
team of producers at Marketplace,

who do the booking of the interview.

They'll do sometimes an initial
conversation with that person, and then

sometimes, you know, actually think
about the questions they wanna ask.

And they give me basically a one-sheet.

And they say, "Listen, this is why
we're interviewing this person.

Here are my thoughts on this, and
here's a couple of questions." I

take that, and I internalize it.

And then I put it away And I
will not go into a studio with a

list of questions in front of me.

I will have major points and things
that really need to be said, especially

if it's a big deal interview.

Like, if I'm talking to Jay Powell you
know, there's some things I have to

ask him, and, and I'll note those down.

But the name of the game is to be there.

And by being there, I
mean you have to listen.

Because we can all hear when an
interviewer is literally running down

a list of questions, and has not paid
attention to the answer preceding the

next question, and just moves right on.

And that makes me crazy.

So be there.

Be in the moment.

Make it a conversation.

understand that you are in charge,
and you have to guide this person

to where you want them to be.

But it can't be just ticking
through a list of questions, right?

And sometimes the best
question is an interrogatory.

Tell me more about that.

Oh?

Or sometimes if it's a newsmaker who's
blowing you off, come on, really?

Just be there and be yourself.

Matt Abrahams: Yeah.

And connect what they're saying
to what's important for you.

Kai Ryssdal: And Marketplace has
a very specific purpose, right?

Our purpose is to raise the economic
intelligence of the country.

And so what you will hear in my
interviews versus an interview that you

hear on other shows or other podcasts
is me going with that lens, right?

Let's figure out what the economic
slice of this, what the business slice

of this is, and help people understand
that part of what it is that they're

gonna consume in the news that day.

I'm incredibly conscious of that because
that's our bread and butter, right?

Our bread and butter is business and
the economy as a lens to see the world.

And that's what I do every
day when I go into the studio.

Matt Abrahams: So having a clear focus
of what the goal is, the larger goal,

being present and listening, and knowing
that it's not just the questions you

ask, but it's the responses to the
question that keep it conversational.

Kai Ryssdal: It, it's entirely the
responses to the questions, right?

Because the person you're talking
to has to feel that they are

in a conversation with you.

If they feel they're on the spot
or they're just answering rote

questions, then their answers change.

That's death to a decent interview,
and it's four minutes that my

mom's gonna turn off the radio.

Matt Abrahams: How do you
keep an interview on track?

Sometimes people wander or they don't
wanna answer the question you, you asked.

Kai Ryssdal: Yeah, they do.

Well, so look.

Matt Abrahams: How do you bring it back?

Kai Ryssdal: So that's
two different things.

If they don't wanna answer the
question you asked, you have

to ask the question again.

And what I will not infrequently
do is after I've asked question A,

they will give me answer X, right?

And I will say, in these many words,
"Let me try this again and see if I

can get a different answer," right?

So that they know that, number one, I'm
not satisfied with what they said, right?

But number two, maybe they'll frame
things in a slightly different way.

A really experienced CEO is
gonna stick to their knitting

and give you the stock answer.

Somebody who's, you know, regular walk of
life or running a small business or what

have you is gonna probably recirculate.

And then the other thing is, you know,
if they don't tell you what you need to

know, you have to keep going at it, right?

If it's an important thing, if it's
an important interview, you have to

get that information out there because
that's what the listener demands.

Matt Abrahams: And when somebody
goes off track or on a tangent,

how do you pull them back?

Kai Ryssdal: You, you, gotta
interrupt them sometimes, right?

Sometimes you have to say, "Listen,
let's put a pin in that conversation

and let's bring it back here to this
other thing." Also, if you're doing

a live interview, it's one thing, but
if you're doing a taped interview,

you have the power of the razor blade
and the splicing tape, you know?

And you can sort of save
them from themselves.

Matt Abrahams: One of the techniques
I like to use when things get a little

off on a tangent is to interrupt.

I totally agree.

But I do so with a paraphrase
where I'll highlight something that

they've said and then pull it back.

But again, it comes back to that
being that tour guide where you know

where you wanna go and if we start
going off, we gotta pull it back.

Kai Ryssdal: And, and the catch, of
course, is finding that moment, right?

'Cause you don't wanna be rude,
you don't wanna really interrupt

them, but it's your job to keep
the train on the tracks, for sure.

Matt Abrahams: And the rudeness piece,
I think, is a really important point.

When you're, you don't wanna be
rude to the guest, but you're

being rude to the other people,
the audience if you don't do it.

So you've gotta weigh those.

There's a lot of emotion in some
of the things that you talk about,

anxiety in particular, you know,
when we're talking about economics,

what's going on in the world.

How do you thread that needle of
acknowledging the emotion, the anxiety in

the moment, but also not getting people
so upset and fearful that they tune out?

Kai Ryssdal: We had this conversation a
lot in the early days of the financial

crisis going on now 20 years ago,
'cause the news, much as it is today,

was really, really grim, and it was
economically and financially scary.

And our conversation was, what's our job?

Is our job to make people feel
better, or is our job to help them

understand what's happening and then
they can process it how they want?

And we came down on, we have to
help them understand this, right?

And we can't sugarcoat it.

So let's address the anxiety, let's
address the fact that these are scary,

scary times, and then go from there
with them having the information.

I had done about, probably 10
years ago now, an interview

with, the CEO of Marriott.

I went to New York, went to
breakfast with him in a Marriott

hotel, and we had a great
conversation, and it was really good.

Arne Sorenson, CEO of Marriott.

Formerly.

Anyway, early in COVID, I discovered that
he had been diagnosed with stage four,

cancer of some variety or other, and it
was, like, terminal, and he knew that.

And so we got him back on the show
because he hadn't stepped down yet,

but he was clearly dying, and we
did it on video, actually, and he

looked like a stage four cancer guy.

And we had a whole conversation about his
scary moment in these really scary times.

It landed with me, it landed
with listeners, and you just

have to go there, right?

And look, I've been doing this
for a while now, and I, I think

listeners trust me to take them there.

I think about that
interview a lot, actually.

That was a moment, right?

It was a moment.

And you just have to lean into it.

Matt Abrahams: Acknowledging that
there is anxiety around this and

saying, "We're gonna get through
this together," but you're better

off understanding and and knowing.

And that way people are willing to go
that distance, and I think the point you

made is that there's a trust that people
have in you that allows that to happen.

I wanna deal with anxiety, specifically
about anxiety you might feel.

You've been a fighter pilot, a diplomat.

You're a live on-air host.

for many of us, those would
be anxiety-filled situations.

Do you have some things that you do
to help you manage your anxiety that

others of us could benefit from?

Kai Ryssdal: Here is my mantra, and it
makes my producers crazy when I say this

out loud, but it is truly what I believe.

If you think about how you sound In front
of a microphone, while you're sitting

in front of a microphone, you're gonna
screw up how you sound on the microphone,

so don't think, just talk, okay?

Now, that's not to say don't be prepared.

It's not to say don't think about
what you wanna get out of it before

you go sit down in the studio.

It's not to say don't be
your prepared best, right?

But once you get there, and this goes
back to the thing we were talking about

before, about being in the conversation.

Once you get there, the only
way to be there is not to think

about all those other things.

Just be there.

And have that conversation.

It sounds silly, but in a
way that's calming, right?

Because if you know you've done your
homework before you get into the studio,

you don't need that piece of paper.

You don't need the producer in that ear.

Once you're there, you have to be there.

And if you're thinking about all that
other crap, you're doing it wrong.

Matt Abrahams: You know, a lot of
my work in the last several years

has been helping people speak
in the moment and spontaneously.

And it's exactly what
you're talking about.

You can do a lot to prepare.

People always sort of cock their
head when I say you can prepare to be

spontaneous, but it's that planning and
then when you show up, you just do it.

It's like an athlete.

Athletes do lots of drills.

Kai Ryssdal: And look, there
are some people who can actually

not think about it and show up
and be spontaneous and be great.

That's not most people.

Matt Abrahams: That's correct.

That's correct.

So what helps you to manage some of
the fear is that you do a lot of prep

then you just focus and come do it.

Kai Ryssdal: But then I know when I
get in the room, I know what I'm doing.

Matt Abrahams: So if something doesn't
go the way you want, a question doesn't

come out right, you say something
that you're not happy with, in the

moment, what do you do with that?

And after the fact, what
do you do with that?

Kai Ryssdal: So I try really hard not
to fix things after the fact, right?

So when we're doing a taped interview
and I screw something up and I know

I've screwed it up, I will actually
correct it in the next moment, right?

The next moment I have in that
interview, just to go back

and, and be honest about it.

Sometimes my producer will
be on Slack and say, "Listen,

it's 42, not 17," or whatever.

But just fix it right there, you know?

Matt Abrahams: Right.

And not beat yourself up about it,
because you can then get in your head

saying, "Oh, I can't believe I made
that mistake. I said the wrong number."

You have to still be in that moment.

Mike Krzyzewski, the famous
basketball coach taught his

players this idea of next play.

So you screw up, you keep going.

Kai Ryssdal: So I'm a high school
and college soccer referee.

And it's the same deal.

Because if you don't let the mistake
that you made by not calling that

foul or missing the handball or
whatever, if you don't let that go,

you will surely miss the next one.

And it's a 90-minute game, and you
gotta be there for all 90 minutes of it.

That's exactly right.

Matt Abrahams: You're a ref.

I find that really interesting,
given what you do for a profession.

I see some commonalities of that.

But absolutely, you can carry with
you that issue and that in and

of itself is a skill that's hard
for people to manage, to let go.

Kai Ryssdal: It's really hard.

Matt Abrahams: And I like to distinguish
between rumination and reflection.

I think reflection's really important.

That's how we learn and we grow.

But if we ruminate in that moment it's
gonna cause everything else to tumble.

You ask a lot of questions.

How do you stay curious about that?

I mean, it can become sort of mundane,
but you seem genuinely interested.

Kai Ryssdal: I'm a genuinely curious
person and that's the rewarding

part of being a journalist.

My job, you know, people always say,
"Well, the host's job in a radio program

is to be a, you know, a stand-in for the
audience and ask them what they wanna

know." And sure, yes, to some degree,
but my job is to be respectful of the

guest and respectful of the audience's
time, and to try to elicit from them,

you know, things that I think the
audience is gonna find interesting.

And the only way to do that is
to be curious about what they do.

Sometimes it's manufactured curiosity,
and sometimes it's genuine, but the

name of the game is don't let that show.

Be there, ask those questions, and hope
the audience gets something out of it.

Matt Abrahams: And even in those
manufactured moments, there's

something in there that is interesting.

Kai Ryssdal: Oh, yeah.

There's always something that makes you
go, "Huh?" And th- which by the way, if

you're listening to the answer, leads you
on a different path, and it takes you off

of that prepared list of questions, right?

Matt Abrahams: That's right.

Is there a question that you
have that you go back to if you

need a question in the moment?

Do you have a favorite or
a go-to or not so much?

Kai Ryssdal: Uh, I smile because me
having a, me going blank in a big

interview led to one of the most revealing
answers we've ever had on Marketplace.

But let me give you my go-to.

My go-to for anybody is In a
business and economic situation,

what's your worst nightmare?

What keeps you up at night?

It gives me time to think
and regroup, you know?

And they will, sometimes the answers
are revealing and sometimes it's

cutting room floor stuff, right?

Sometimes it's good
and sometimes it's not.

I was interviewing Janet Yellen once
between her time as Fed chair and when

she got the job as Treasury Secretary.

So it's like 2018, '19.

We went to her office in
Brookings in Washington.

When I go into those interviews, I
don't have a piece of paper in front

of me because I like to be there and
present with the person I'm talking to.

And she finished whatever answer
she had given to the question,

and my mind just went blank.

I just completely brain-farted.

And so I looked at her and I said,
"Do you think Donald Trump understands

economic policy?" And she looked at
me and said, "No, I don't." And I was

like, "Oh my God." Oh my God, right?

It came from me just not knowing what else
to do, so I just came up with something.

So, you know, just say something, right?

Matt Abrahams: The biggest fear people
report to me is the fear of blanking out.

Kai Ryssdal: But it happens
to everybody, right?

You know?

I mean…

Matt Abrahams: And the way
through it is to do what you did,

just to throw out a question.

Kai Ryssdal: The way
through it is through it.

Matt Abrahams: Yeah.

Really interesting.

I end all of my episodes
with three questions.

One I'm gonna make up just for
you, and the other two I've been

asking people for a long time.

Are you up for that?

Kai Ryssdal: Yeah.

Matt Abrahams: In terms of what
you do, how do you see AI impacting

communication and journalism in general?

Kai Ryssdal: Well, so that's
two different things, right?

The issue of communication and fakes
and all of those things is deeply

troubling, not just on a journalistic
level, but on a societal level, right?

On a trust and on a mutual
adherence to norms basis.

I think that's really, really challenging.

Journalism can be really, really helped by
artificial intelligence: analysis, trend

spotting, you know, all of those things.

But AI writing articles and doing
podcasts and all of which it's

capable of doing is not the way to
a successful future for the United

States and for the rest of the planet.

You know, set aside the fact that it would
put me and probably you out of a job.

Matt Abrahams: Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Kai Ryssdal: You know?

Matt Abrahams: Right.

So use it as a tool.

Kai Ryssdal: It is a tool, right?

But be smart, and let's have a
human in that loop, and let's not

just abrogate all responsibility
and say, "Here you go." AI's gonna

take care of this," 'cause it's not.

Matt Abrahams: At the end of the
day, communication is operationalized

critical thinking, and if we let AI
do that, we're missing out on things.

Question number two.

Who's a communicator
that you admire, and why?

Kai Ryssdal: The two that I've come
up with are not spoken word people.

Jim Fallows, formerly at The Atlantic, now
on his own Substack, but for many years an

observational journalist of international
affairs, national security, and a writer.

I would read almost anything
he's written, truly.

Same thing goes for John Dickerson,
late of CBS News and Slate.

I just find those two guys
really interesting to read.

I'm really critical of spoken word
people or television people because

I'm so innately connected to that.

Part of that's probably
professional jealousy.

Part of it's probably envy somehow.

But those are two who, who
come to the top of my head.

Matt Abrahams: Is there something
that they do in their writing that's

particularly, is it their thoroughness?

Kai Ryssdal: They are at the same
time very concrete and very big

idea, and they have the ability
to land that plane, if you will.

Matt Abrahams: And that's, that's an art.

Final question, what are the first
three ingredients that go into a

successful communication recipe?

Kai Ryssdal: Know what you're talking
about, but not to such a degree as you

are paralyzed by the information, right?

It's like you use the recipe thing.

I will continue that analogy.

You know, sometimes you
need a pinch of salt.

Sometimes you need a half
a tablespoon of salt.

Whatever.

Throw some salt in there, right?

So know what you're talking about.

Number two, some concept of brevity.

If you are long-winded, you
will lose people's attention.

If you are too short-winded,
you shortchange your listener

and the subject at hand.

So find that happy medium between
going on too long and just saying, "All

right, let's go." And then finally,
I'm gonna go back to my old standby.

Don't think too much.

Know what you're talking about, right?

Item number one on this, know
what you're talking about.

And then once you know that, once
you've internalized it, then just

be in the moment and just do it.

Be present.

Be yourself.

Express yourself, and then the
audience will react to you.

Matt Abrahams: Know your stuff.

Be concise.

And be present.

Kai Ryssdal: Yeah.

Matt Abrahams: Excellent ingredients.

And helpful for not just what you
do, but for what all of us do.

Kai, this has been fantastic.

A fan boy moment for me.

I, I really enjoy your show, and I
enjoy how you communicate and try to

emulate some of the things you do.

Thank you for your time,
and keep up the great work.

Kai Ryssdal: Absolutely a pleasure, Matt.

Thank you.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for
listening to another episode of

Think Fast, Talk Smart, the Podcast.

To learn more about similar communication,
listen to Peter Sagal, episode 220.

This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

With special thanks to the team at Spotify
Los Angeles and Podium Podcast Company.

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