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Season 2 of “Stop & Talk” has arrived! This season, dive deep into the themes of purpose and opportunity, guided by the insights of leaders in the arts and culture, sports, philanthropy, finance, and innovation fields. Together, we'll celebrate local achievements and envision what's possible in San Diego County. Let's converse and inspire one another.
Hey, Crystal.
Crystal Page:Hi, Grant. How are you?
Grant Oliphant:I am great. We're having a conversation today with Amina Sheik Mohamed, that I think people are going to love. She's an extraordinary human, you know her well, and I think our audience is all going to want to know her well, if they don't already, after they listen to her.
Crystal Page:You know, I knew of Amina, but when, she won one of our leaders in belonging awards, you see how gentle she is, but still an incredibly strong leader. What are you hoping to get out of the conversation?
Grant Oliphant:Well, I think I'm hoping to get a conversation about what it looks like to be working with one of America's most vulnerable populations right now, and what that means for San Diego, why it's important, why it's important for the country, and and how there's a promising path forward. I think it's an incredibly helpful conversation. We should probably say a word about Amina and and who she is and what she does. She's the director and founder of the Refugee Health Unit at UC San Diego Center For Community Health. She's also an incredibly passionate and gifted leader who works on the front lines of the barriers to health equity that face immigrant and refugee communities, and I think what we have seen, which is why she won the leaders in belonging award was that she is a consistent voice for uplifting the voices, perspective, and needs of those populations.
Crystal Page:Yeah. And I think Amina, in particular, the way in which she does that, a lot of the time is behind the scenes. So I'm gonna be curious in your conversation with her, you know, how is she building connections across difference? And I'm just really curious in terms of her leadership role in these communities and uplifting the voice. I think, in the bio you just read, it talks about her own personal experience, so I'm excited to hear this leader who's leading from her own personal experience.
Grant Oliphant:Well, I think I think what we're going to see in this conversation is how a person, navigates a very complicated terrain with passion and equanimity, and manages to bring a great deal of, I can just call it sanity and kindness to the work that she's doing. There's a great model here for all of us in how we are working our way through complicated times. So we should probably just dive in.
Crystal Page:Let's dive in.
Grant Oliphant:And listen to the interview, and then talk about it at the back end.
Crystal Page:Here we go.
Grant Oliphant:Amina Sheik Mohamed, it's so great to have you here on the program. Thank you for being here.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Thank you so much. I'm honored to be here.
Grant Oliphant:It really is a pleasure. I wanna start by honoring the fact that you were a recipient of the Leaders in Belonging award, that the Prebys Foundation recently gave out, and we were delighted to honor you for the work that you've done in health equity, and also working with refugees in San Diego. It's an extraordinary portfolio of work that you have put together. You're incredibly modest about it, and part of what I'm going to try and do in this conversation is draw you out a little bit to talk about why the work is important. I should also note that shortly after you received our award, you received a similar recognition from the Irvine Foundation for statewide leadership in, in these issues.
Grant Oliphant:I suppose what I wanna start by asking you is what was it like for somebody who is as quiet and modest as you to suddenly be showered with that kind of recognition?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:I'm very honored, with that with that with both awards, and it shows, it really shows attention that the community needs. So this award is not so much about me personally, and it's more about the community and the work and the services that are needed. So shedding the light on those communities, refugee communities statewide and San Diego as well, it really shows, it's timely. It's timely, and it shows the support and the, you know, acknowledgement that is that has been missing for a long time.
Grant Oliphant:So the timeliness of the work, I think, is a subject I'll want to come back to later because that cuts both ways as you know, and I'm curious how you experience that, but we'll we'll come back to that. For right now, I'd love to ask you how you came to do this work. Let's talk a little bit about what the work is first, and then what your path into doing it was. So can you describe for our listeners exactly what it is that you do?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yeah. I am, the founding director of UC San Diego Center For Community Health Refugee Health Unit, and our unit was in response it was created for the response of the community gaps and needs. So we were based in City Heights and, working with refugee communities, it was, like, to make sure that what is really where are the gaps, and how can we, as an institution, UC San Diego, support, you know, and and and be part of the movements and and and and with refugee communities. So, what my leadership has been is to really support the ethnic led organizations, who are doing amazing work frontline, to support with, like, technical assistant training support and uplifting the work that they do in a higher level of of, publication and, you know, report data. There's so many different missing focus areas that we have.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:So one of my initial very broad moments has been creating, establishing the refugee, communities coalition, which is brings the ethnic community leaders, ethnic led community leaders together in one place. So they have a common goal. They have, shared vision, and they have shared resources as well.
Grant Oliphant:I think that's an extraordinary piece of community leadership by the way. When I Early on when I came to town, I met with you and the group, and the fact that there was a coalition that represented the various refugee communities in San Diego was tremendously helpful, and I imagine is tremendously helpful for the group. As, for for the sake of folks who are listening who may not understand why in the health space or more generally, there are special issues that confront refugees. Can you explain a little bit about what it means to do health equity work for them? Why in a in a town rich with, medical resources and health care resources, why is this important?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yeah. Health equity is, important in so many different communities. It's important in communities of color. It's important in low income communities, and we are part of that. Refugee are not different from any of those communities.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:So we're we're counted under we're under the communities of community of color. We live in most of them are when they immigrated here, they are they came here as refugees, they live in a low income communities. And, their income is not high level income. So even though health equity is in general, like, focus, with communities facing even more, you know, like, leaving those areas environmentally, there's a lot of, issues, and they there's it's gonna be part they're part of that community, right, just the general community that we we wanna shed the light on. In addition to that, there's language, cultural barriers.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Sense of belonging is not there. I know this is, like, the word that was focused on that. So it's like when you come here, there's just a lot of barriers, you know, that because of the environment and where refugees are placed, it's gonna be. And in addition to that, then the language, you know, access to cultural competency, language to cultural responsive. There's a lot of issues in that where access is not the same for everybody.
Grant Oliphant:Right. And so access to institutions that people who are native to San Diego or native to the US might take for granted, for refugees are not obvious. And so you're describing you're helping them navigate language barriers, cultural barriers, which are very real in the healthcare space.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yep.
Grant Oliphant:And even understanding standards of care here and the approach to medicine here. So you're helping folks navigate all of that.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yes. Our our organizations, the coalition member organizations are navigating through that process to help the communities. And these are we're not talking about only new arrivals. We're talking about the people who have stayed here. So access to jobs.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Right? Like, employment is hard. Economic opportunities are harder. So, basically, all the things, you know, housing and so on, the social, like we cannot have complete health until all of those areas are uplifted and and there's resources enough for the community.
Grant Oliphant:What has surprised you, if anything, about doing this work?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:In a what way?
Grant Oliphant:Well, has there been anything as you've as you've worked with the refugee community on health access and health equity issues that that has been a major learning for you?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:I think, yeah. There has been, I think doing this work has been difficult for a while for a long time. And I think with COVID, people started to understand more. So it became like we didn't have to explain so much anymore. It became like the problem that everybody was facing.
Grant Oliphant:Right. So let's talk a little bit about how you came to do the work. I'm curious, have you had personal experiences that helped shape your wanting to do this work in the first place?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yeah. My work has started, I wanted to be in the health care sector, but in a in a way of, like, working in clinics and kind of seeing the patients when they were sick. Right? So doing that, I had to explain diabetes, what diabetes was, and hypertension. And I noticed the community did not even have education about that or didn't even know what they were diagnosed with.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:So that's what kinda led me to come out of the clinics and go into prevention. So I went to prevention, community health education, and so on, and then I was like, no, that's not enough. You know? It's not about educating the community, but it's about access. Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:It's about, the environment that they live. Do they have the resources? Right, resources in front of, like, where they live or, you know, close enough. Right? So, when I switched to that, then now I'm in a position to think about system level changes.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:And it's not about really even accessing that, but it's like, how do we make those systems change? And my focus right now is, to work with various different stakeholders to make sure that they understand the need of the refugee community, and, to make system change system level change for for them and for other, communities that are facing similar.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. I wanna I wanna talk about those systems. Before we get to that though, let me push, on this question of a personal connection because I think so often people who are drawn to working with vulnerable populations of any kind or with healthcare issues in particular, come into that work by some sometimes by personal connection with it. And I'm just curious about you and your upbringing and your your your background further back. Did that also inform for you, what what why this space mattered to you?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yeah. So in a different level, like, early on, obviously, my family and us, you know, and and also my community. So I'm not, up to now, I'm part of the community that I serve. So it's more of, like, being in that community. I don't have to be, you know, working hours, like, in a way to find out like, I could be in the mosque, and I will have a problem to handle from, you know, work perspective, or I could be in a store, and someone might tell me about a problem in the community.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:So I am part of the community that I serve, so that's something I carry around with me. And, you know, helping my family and other community neighbors and everyone, in the beginning of my career, at a personal level as well as work, it has been it's hard to even actually, differentiate, you know, when I'm working and when I'm not working, to be honest with you. Because when you are part of that community, you're committed to be a part of that community.
Grant Oliphant:How do you define that community?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:The community is, community is
Grant Oliphant:I mean, when you speak about your community, just for the sake of our listeners.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:The refugee community in general, but, like and and their needs have become my part part of me too. So that's the community I'm talking about. And then later on, I think, in in general, when I'm talking about system changes and other things, the personal things that I see is being different, you know, just being different. Like right now, wearing a scarf, coming into, like, you know, just in a space, I feel that.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:So I wanna make sure other people, especially younger people who are growing up here now, have access to opportunities, can dream about, you know, getting awards and being part of the society in San Diego. So it's personal for me because I feel I went through that. I wanna make sure that they also have access to. So some things are more like, yes, I went through it as a work or, you know, things like that. And then also the kind of the work of prevention and kind of access care and all of those things is what I witnessed.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:People going in with no translation in the health system, you know, like, not just little things, right, that we take for granted, not knowing how to complete. Like, you missed one paper of submitting, and you might be not even getting that health insurance or something like that. You know?
Grant Oliphant:And you saw this happen to people you knew, and so you wanted to prevent that
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yeah.
Grant Oliphant:You know, I think it's I think it's fascinating what you were saying about being part of the community that you're serving because it does turn it into a 247 job, and mission where you're always on call. And I'm curious to know the these personal experiences and personal glimpses of the challenges that exist, and the personal experience of it yourself. How has that shaped your approach to doing the work that you're doing now? Because I think there are lessons there for others who want to work with community, and I'm just curious what how how having been in it, and still being in it, shapes the way you approach the work.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:It takes a commitment. It takes a commitment. It takes a long time, and it may feel something that's, never ending in a way. You know, it's kinda ongoing.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Mhmm. But, we have to be hopeful, and there has been some, you know, obviously, some successes. Like, you just talked about the coalition. That's something we didn't have 10 years ago. Right?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:That's something we didn't have 8 years ago, but now we do, and now what's next? So I think it's building the foundation and and building it more and more and more. I do wanna clarify one thing I said earlier. Like, being part of the community, I don't wanna say only you have to be part of the community to work. Right?
Grant Oliphant:Right. Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:It's just it takes a little bit more when you are in that community and you're seeing. For example, like, the example that I used of, it's not 8 to 5. Right?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Like, it could be 7 or 8 or, you know, I'm not on call, but, like, just being part of the community, you see it more. And you might be neighbors with, you know, that you're witnessing, you're hearing about it. So it's not you're not waiting for that news to come through the news. Right? Or or someone else doesn't have to just always reach out to you, but you're getting it immediately.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:And the good thing about that is you might respond quick quickly for that to to you know, so something doesn't have to, last longer. Like, you could do something about it. Be responsive.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. I think that's well said. I'm I'm curious. We often, you know, we sometimes ask, about how faith comes into play for people and the work that they do, and, you mentioned the mosque. So how does it come to into play for you?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Spiritually and faith is super important, for the work I do, and, personally for me, like, I feel like that is some of the things, you know, being grateful and just there's a lot of different ways that it shows up, giving back and all of those things is something that, you know, we we are feeling, part of the religion. And sometimes it's I know people think it's disconnected from, access or, like, even treatment and everything, but really a lot of people go to their mosque to get support system. Right? It's it's a big support system for communities. And, one thing that we're more hopeful, and I think it's not only mosque, but churches and, you know, different faith leaders to get involved is to make sure that there's, connection to, resources.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Right. And for example one example is, like, mental health. Right? So sometimes mental health is connected to, like, going out to your mosque and seeking some support. And so some of the things that we think is to make sure that those resources are available at the mosque in addition to, you know, community centers and others.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yeah.
Grant Oliphant:So connecting them where people are and where people can
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Worship. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant:Now you, you work with people of all refugees of all faiths And all kinds of backgrounds, and inevitably there are differences that feel more important or more urgent than others, and we're certainly living through a cultural moment where those get exaggerated or hyped. And I'm curious what part of your role in helping people navigate the health system or just the community in general is also to play bridge builder. How does that come into the play into play for you in your work?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yeah. The bridge building is, so for example, like, right now with, like, just the example that you have for different religions, different things. I don't have to be in a different religion to understand, but it's really being cultural humility. Right? Being there for the people, understanding what they're going through.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:And each, luckily with the coalition, we have a specific focus on each community is their own, right? But we know spiritually there's a lot of of, like, people are, like, connected, and there's, like just really, like because they have the same shared experience, oftentimes religion is not even brought up. It's like we have we we're missing language, you know, like, or, like, we need these resources or that. It's not talked about a lot of things. Everybody believes in their own.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:But, through the COVID time, we were able to connect with churches and mosques and so on. So, like, just that way. But bridge builder is super important, to connect because there's disconnect, as you know
Grant Oliphant:Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:In resources, plus even connections, you know, in the community. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant:Is it getting is that process of building bridges getting harder or easier, would you say?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:I think it's getting better. I think there's more hopeful, since COVID. It's been getting better, and I think, one good example is right now, I'm sitting with you here, and I don't think that would have been possible before. You know, in terms of, like, funders were so disconnected from the work, you know, like, the community.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. Yeah.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:So you came to the coalition and I'm here with you now. So that is that's what gives me hope. It's changing.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that, and and, of course we would wanna connect with you. You're doing really important valuable work for the community, so I think, I just wanna reflect that back to you. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant:I would I'm curious, though, about the dynamic that's happening in the broader global and US culture, of people seeming to divide into camps and, a, you know, a global level of vitriol, directed at refugees and immigrants, not just in this country, but all around the world. And I I'm curious how you and the coalition experience that and whether you think that's getting better or worse?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:It's, I don't think it's in that one, like, I think it's always emerging. Refugee issues are always emerging. So as you know, we just few months ago or several months ago, we just had a lot of refugees come through the border.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. Huge numbers.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yeah. Huge numbers. So it's always up and down. And something that the coalition is doing, and also we hope that other, partners and funders and everyone else can hopefully be is being responsive, like shifting. You know, we all do strategic plannings.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:We all do other things, but it's really, like, what is important at the moment. Right? Like, what is really important at the moment? And I think, the border issues and refugees coming in and, you know, resources, it's just we have to be more responsive and and and see the needs of, like good example has been the flood right now that happened in San Diego. You know?
Grant Oliphant:Huge flood.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yeah. We have Yeah. And it's not all San Diego. It was particular, you know, areas. And it's like, how do we shift resources and attention and everything at that kind of level?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:And and refugees are exactly the same thing. Right? Like, it's that kind of flood that just happened. It's not planned. It's not something you added in your strategic planning.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:It's not something that you can get ready and stand at the border because your border or or other places. You don't know when they're gonna arrive, what's gonna happen, and how what is the numbers like. So it's for us to really make sure that we're shifting, resources and and the plans that we had on being responsive and being flexible.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. When you're asked by people, and I know you are, about, why it matters, you know, I think I think there there are folks who are sympathetic, but who and who get the humanitarian message, but they they think we don't have the resources or they think we should be focusing on other things. When people ask you why is it important for our society to respond to refugee needs, how do you help them understand why it's important?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:I help those that understand, those that are willing to understand. Y Because I think there's
Grant Oliphant:Starts there.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yeah. Yeah. Right? Like I think there are people who, no matter what, you know, it's like
Grant Oliphant:You're not gonna get thrown. But they're probably not asking you. Or if they
Amina Sheik Mohamed:They are. They could. They could ask, Yeah. They could ask, but still, like, not that it's not gonna process through them. Right? So I don't wanna put energy in there.
Grant Oliphant:Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:But we will put energy where, there's momentum and there's some responses happening. And I think, I do wanna acknowledge, I think the larger community understands what that is. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant:I think San Diego is, very aware of and understanding of that message.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:For sure.
Grant Oliphant:But but how do you help folks who are on the fence, if you will then, understand why it's important?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:I wanna tell them that being a refugee and leaving your country is not something you plan, it's not a choice. You know? And and I think, some of the things that kind of brought this issue, you know, this matter, like, home is COVID. We just had to shift everything around to do like, you know, to respond to that, and the floods that happened or an earthquake and something like that.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:So I'll compare to that. You know. Just a matter of, like, in minutes or whatever, you have to leave your home, go somewhere else. That is something that we should be open to, you know, you don't know who's gonna be next, you don't know if you're next, so just think about yourself. There's not a group that is granted to be a refugee forever.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:You know?
Grant Oliphant:Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:So, like, you could be it you could feel similar. You could face similar similar, as refugees being in San Diego or elsewhere. So just really, like, don't take for granted is what I would say.
Grant Oliphant:I think that's thank you. And that's why I was pressing you on it because I think it's that's such a powerful answer, and the flood metaphor is actually a really good metaphor, because as recently as a couple of weeks ago, for all I know right now, we still have a 1,000 people living in hotels trying to get back to the homes that they suddenly had to vacate because of the flood in Southeast San Diego. Refugee situations are analogous, but people are displaced not just from their home, but from their country. And to your point, it's not a lark, It's not a and it's not even necessarily a choice. It's something that's imposed upon them maybe without even forethought or expectation.
Grant Oliphant:So thank you for that, and I just the the gentle but forceful way in which you stated that I think is is helpful in delivering that message, and it needs to be heard. You know, I think it's it's a core element of our understanding each other as human beings. So what are you let's let's turn for a moment to what you're excited about. What are you most excited about in terms of the work that you're doing? You, you know, you've gotten these recognitions, that's wonderful, but you are as usual, very self effacing about it. And and yes, it does bring resources to the work, but what excites you right now about the work?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:What excites me is really the work we're doing with the coalition. One specific, project that we're doing with the coalition right now is, we created a policy council that kind of comes together, you know, and did their own research with from the community to come up with priorities of policy. Like, we I talked to you earlier about system changes. Until we change those systems, you know, nothing is gonna happen. So the coalition is working right now with policy priorities that are gonna come out soon.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:And those policy that's the ones that they wanna drive on. In the past, we were able to support other projects that are kind of, you know, created or initiated by other groups, but right now it's their own they're gonna be drivers. So for me it's more about that narrative change of refugee leading the way. And you know, and so in all of the work that we're doing, it's more like how do we make sure that something has to change and, you know, people who are at the tables that are we're like I'm going to right now, it's changing, right? Like like the example I give you about this interview and all of those things, it's because we see the change.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:We see the change coming, and, it's something that we worked for a long time, but we wanna make sure that it's gonna be, a lasting one. You know, it's not like just trending of, like, let's highlight refugees right now and so on. So I think there are some changes that's happening and we want to make sure that youth leaders, communities of color, refugees are in a leadership position, and leading. Leading, they have the solution, they know what they're doing, and it's like letting them have that space and and and changing that, you know, from the past. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant:I think it's incredibly important and powerful that you have a policy council that, because that is key to changing any system. Systems change as a phrase often feels like jargon to people who are listening to it, but I think what you're driving at is very practical changes, in how systems work. So you alluded to a couple earlier, but for example, the availability of people who speak in multiple languages at healthcare facilities would be a system, a change to a system that needs to happen. Greater awareness around cultural needs of unique populations or discrete populations would be another. But what other types of changes are you seeking in the systems that you're addressing?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Mental health is another focus of ours. Mental health, it's education system. I also there's a lot of, you know, changes in that employment sector, housing for sure. And in the past, we used to see, like, some of those changes coming through and the community being part of it, but because they were not driving that change or they were not the lead of that, It was not, you know, they were kind of supporting and not knowing where it ends sometimes. So right now, this is their initiative, you know, and they're leading.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:So I think that's what really I don't know how far it's gonna go and what's gonna happen, but I'm hopeful that, something good will come out. And it's based on their thinking and and and, you know, they are the initiators. And it's like and it's mostly youth, actually, who you have
Grant Oliphant:not done. Well leadership coming from the people who are most affected is probably the gold standard of changing systems.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Exactly. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant:And that's what you're describing.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yes. Yes. They had communic like, they had community, focused, You know, they met with community leaders. And coming up with a priority as far as, like, refugee focused for policy is not that easy. We have a lot of barriers, but they had to come together and say, what are the top?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:You know, obviously, we have a lot, but, like, what can we more, like, focus on for the next 3 years or so? And I think that is something I'm excited and I wanna support, and I also want our, partners and other people to know about it when it's out and support it more.
Grant Oliphant:I I since you bring this up, I I wasn't planning on asking about this, although I should have been. What are you seeing in terms of the mental health issues and behavioral health issues in the refugee community? You know I think I was reading an article this morning about how anxiety is affecting, every age group in the United States, and this is clearly behavioral health issues, challenges around wellness, and mental wellness are are afflicting youth in particular in American society, but they're being felt broadly throughout the culture. What do you hear from the refugee community about this?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yeah. What I hear and I what I see is, mental health is is a big issue in all communities, but for our community, particularly refugee communities, it's more affecting, because there's a lot of stigma around it, right? So a lot of people maybe not getting the care that they need in a matter of time. And the other one is like, you know, the youth that you're talking about are leaving. We have American youth and like refugee, you know, whatever country we have, the parents are a different culture, so it's like you have 2 cultures in in in one home.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:You know? So there's a lot of things that are, you have 2 different language. Like, some parents may not even, like, you know, understand their common language might be English, so they might not speak, you know, the like so there's a lot of different levels that mental health is affecting the community. But definitely it's more about knowing early enough and resources. And then the other one you said anxiety and all of those things.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Really what brings those anxiety is, the stress level of, you know, not having good jobs, you know, not having low or having low paying jobs and not having access to resources. It's going to be something that brings anxiety to communities. And then, just thinking truly, like everyday thinking about poverty and all of these things, you know, it's just that's one way, but the other ways are more like, stigma and culturally, you know, not understanding the systems and things like that. So it's a little bit harder Right. For refugee communities.
Grant Oliphant:Is there a is there a magic formula for helping people overcome stigma around this to ask for help?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:I think we're getting there, but we're not there quietly until we change the workforce. We need to have workforce that is understanding the community, you know. We need to have, therapy and other people, you know, mental health staff member and workforce that is reflecting to the community that we serve, and and we're not there yet.
Grant Oliphant:You know, in our conversations with young people in the refugee community, one of the things we hear is that they have, the added burden or role of being caregivers to parents, translators for parents, Translators is a big issue often. Cultural navigators for parents. You never think about that, unless, I guess, you're in it and or seeing it. Do you think that by and large, the the children of refugees that you're that you're meeting and seeing are navigating that well, or do they need extra attention as well?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:I mean, they're doing that part of, you know, it's giving back to your community, it's giving back to your parents, but I think, to take that burden off them, we need a system. We need a system that will hire so we don't have to, you know, go through our children for translations. Right? Like, they could be the children, and we we will have that. So, it's getting a little better, but in the past, we had a lot of youth, you know, going into the hospitals and translating.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:And and, unfortunately, providers were excited to say, you're doing a good job of helping your mom, but that should not be. That should be the children.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. Let's talk about joy for a moment. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, so much of how you come across when I've seen you in community gatherings, and, just in talking with you 1 on 1 is, yeah, you've got a very realistic view of the challenges that people face, and you're clear eyed about everything we've just been discussing, which can feel heavy and dark sometimes.
Grant Oliphant:But that's not who you are. I mean, who you are is joyful and upbeat and positive. So I'm curious, first of all, where does that come from? And what is giving you joy right now in the work?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yeah. I wanna say that that's not only me. I think that is honestly the community that I see always. It's like, yes, we do wanna talk about challenges, and this has been the topic right now, but then we are also fun, resiliency, loving people that are very grateful. You know?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:So I think they're very like, that's where it comes from. It's like being grateful for what you have and also having a dream and vision. You know, like, things might not come your way right now, but it will happen And every step counts. So for me, it's more like, yes, you know, we might not have the things that we want or see the things, but then like celebrating little changes, celebrating every step that is towards that process and also, not like, not having, for example, you know, with the coalition right now, the things that we've builded, it's like we don't we wanna build up that more, right, so we're not going back or the next generation that come in or anything like that, they don't have to start all over. So building that foundation, you know, moving on and building that one and and having, being grateful and having a vision.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. I love that I love that, combination of gratitude, dreaming, vision, resilience, all important concepts. Are there are there people in your journey who have stood out for you as examples of that?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Mhmm. Yes. Yes. I think I wouldn't be here if it was not those people that, you know, invited me to spaces and acknowledged, people who are missing at spaces and called out. Right?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:So it's not 1 or 2, it's a lot of different people. And, and that's one way of helping. People think always about resources and money and all of those things, but it's really the connections that matters, you know, or inviting people to spaces or even encouragement to say, you can do it, you know, even though you feel you don't belong there belonging. You belong there, you know. And and and I think, there and and luckily, there's there's enough people in San Diego who are doing phenomenal job about that.
Grant Oliphant:You find San Diego to be a welcoming community in general?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yes. You know, it depends on who and I feel like I'm around those people.
Grant Oliphant:It's like any community. Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:I feel like I'm around those people, but there there have been spaces you feel not welcomed.
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:But I think we're kind of focusing on the positive end of it right now. So, yeah, there is, definitely yeah. There's there's, there's a lot of positive around and then there's negative, but I think we wanna attract to the positive.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. Great. The, the foundation, the Prebys Foundation believes in a vision of community wellness as you know, that, is really centered on the capacity of every person in the community to have their own sense of purpose, to feel like they've got opportunity to succeed, and to really feel also like they belong in that community. So it's this for us, it's this combination of purpose, opportunity, and belonging. If people have those, then the community that they're part of thrives, we believe, and in the absence of those, it's difficult for community to thrive because individuals aren't thriving.
Grant Oliphant:Does that resonate for the coalition and for the work that you all are doing? And and how does it translate for your mission?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Definitely, it does, translate directly. And I wanna give a shout out to Prebys Foundation for really thinking about those highlights, right? Like, it's like you cannot have complete well-being without feeling belonging. The opportunities are what we talked about, it's all access and opportunities, right? Like, so, it's really all interconnected, all the things that we're talking about.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:So really, for somebody to have, a complete well-being, we have to make sure there is enough work that has been done. And I think belonging is is is a very good example. I haven't heard a lot of people talk about belonging, so I was really amazed when I heard the foundation going after, you know, like that focus, and it's it's, I wanna say congratulations for being, kind of shedding the light on that.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. Well, thank you. But more importantly, again, to reflect it back to you, thank you for being the embodiment of that. What do you think, people what would be helpful for people to know about how San Diego can step more into being a community of belonging? If we really wanna be that, and and your answer can be about strengths or weaknesses, it can be anything.
Grant Oliphant:But if we really wanna be a community of belonging, what what would you hope San Diego and San Diegans would do? Mhmm.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Let's go with the strength. I think, it's really individually should see what they can do to make people feeling welcome. And this starts from getting holding the door for the elevator for and other things, but individually, we should be thinking about what can myself, me, what can I do to make that happen? And I think that level is that starts there, and then it goes up to, like, foundations and other partners and other groups and, you know, as institutions. Right?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:But I think individually there's a lot that can be contributed, and and, that is someone who may not a inviting them to different meetings and spaces that they're not there. So it's really important, belonging, and I think people should understand more.
Grant Oliphant:I think there's something hugely powerful about what you just said, you know, if anybody reflects on an experience they've had, and everybody has had them in their lives, they may not acknowledge them, but Mhmm. Everybody has had them, where you're in a context and you don't feel like people see you, or you don't feel like people hear you. It's a miserable feeling. You know, it's a sad and lonely feeling, and what you're describing is a community that doesn't let anybody feel that way, that as a matter of course, people feel like they're seen and feel like they're heard. Is that a fair description of your vision of of inclusion or belonging in this community?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yes. Yes. Especially if someone is not like I think spaces that those people are walking into, they might not see people that look like them. Mhmm. It could be even a workplace.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Right? Like
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:It could be like you might feel like, you don't belong there. Oftentimes, we feel we don't belong to spaces, but how do you make sure that space is a good experience, right, if you even try it out, like, to feel that you wanna come back again.
Grant Oliphant:Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:And I think that's the individual level plus, you know, it could be, like, also an institution. But there's really, like, what can we do to make sure that we're, making sure people who already tried out are having good experience to come back to that space and come back. And then the ones that are not there are able to come in.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. So some of the listeners of this podcast are, leaders in healthcare. They certainly can, are familiar with some of the takeaways from an interview like this, because they are wrestling with these issues, and you're helping a very important institution do that, and actually the whole community through the coalition to do that. Other people who listen to this are individuals working on all kinds of different things in San Diego and and across the country. For them, if they want to accomplish what you just said and and help contribute to a community where people feel seen and heard, What's a simple thing they can do?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Try to connect with that person. Try to say something about asking them something they are comfortable, you know, sharing about their food and what they like. Or even even if you're a doctor, you can come into the room asking, you know, like, something that's making you connect to to to that individual. And I think that relationship, it's, you know, it builds from there. So I think anybody can start a conversation nicely and connection, and that will be welcoming instead of, like, something else that they might ask, like, you know.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yeah.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. Amina, we're about at time, and before we wrap up, I wanna ask you what's next on your agenda. You know, what do you think you wanna work on next, either through the coalition or through your health equity work? Is there a next mountain to climb for you?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:I feel like that's always something, right, we're working on. I think, right now, just really making sure, through through the work of the coalition, we build it up workforce. Really, that's like community health worker, behavior health specialist, and, you know, youth leaders and all of this common group that are coming together to work together for to support the community. And I think something that is, how do you keep that, you know, for longer term? How do we find, funding that's long lasting to support that workforce?
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Because we're kind of like earlier I talked about economic, I talked about responding to the community, and with this workforce, we're doing both. We're creating employment through the coalition for the community. Right? And then we also are responding to a need of the community.
Grant Oliphant:Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:So how do we keep so that's my that workforce that built it up through COVID, and we have, you know, a good amount of people that are doing that work, and finding them trainings and sustainable, you know, funding that is, long term.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. So very needed. Well, I, I just wanna thank you for spending this time with us. It is, it's terrific to talk with you. It's inspiring to talk with you.
Grant Oliphant:And, on behalf of San Diego and humanity in general, I wanna say thank you for the work that you're doing.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Thank you. I'm honored to be here, and thank you so much for having me.
Crystal Page:I just have a deep sense of gratitude for hearing that interview. I think Amina raises a lot of our our privilege of we happen to be born in this country, and some people are forced to leave where they're from home.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:So Right.
Crystal Page:What did you take away?
Grant Oliphant:Well, I I thought that was one of many powerful takeaways. You know, the when I was asking her about how she makes the case, I love when she said, sometimes I don't bother if I know somebody just can't hear it, but the way she makes the case for why this work matters and why working with these populations matters is, at its root, her answer was it could be you, could be anybody, could be any of us, could be any of our children. These are folks who are not, refugees by choice, but because life brought them a set of circumstances how easily this can happen to a family or to an individual. So that was powerful, I thought. I also thought the way she characterized the population itself, and you know, particularly later in the interview as we were getting to the word subjects of joy.
Grant Oliphant:And, you know, what she described is a community that most often appears in the news because of policy debates about the numbers or because of of challenges and issues in meeting their their their needs. But what she was pointing out is an a story as old as time in America, which is of an immigrant population that is also grateful to be here, that is grateful for the life that they have, that has dreams, that has a vision of the community they wanna contribute to, that is deeply resilient and can overcome any set of challenges at a time when, by the way, so many of us are struggling. So I just found that to be incredibly powerful, and it just reminded me once again that refugees and immigrants have been a source of our strength as a society for a very long time, and she's just, helping us navigate a new and modern form of that.
Crystal Page:Yeah. I felt that there to that point, there was some strength when she said We are fun, resilience, loving people who are grateful. She did talk about that dream of it may not all happen today, but it's a step in that direction. I think there was something incredibly thoughtful in that, but also there was this want of unity. Right?
Crystal Page:This want of going going together into something. And there's just a positivity that I think in in, you know, moments where we can get down as just regular old humans feeling sorry for ourselves, and like, oh, yeah. You know, life can be good and just be grateful for what we have in this moment.
Amina Sheik Mohamed:Yeah. So
Grant Oliphant:Now I think we have to acknowledge as we're talking about that, the other side, which is that the work is hard, and we talked a bit about that that working with a a vulnerable population like this, you know, as she as she admitted, for people like her, it's a 247 job. In that she is of the community. She lives in the community. Her friends are from the community, many of them. And so if things aren't going well, if there's a challenge that's being faced, she's gonna hear about it in the grocery store, not just, at work from, you know, between the between the hours of 8 and 5, and she said that.
Crystal Page:I thought about that. It's like work life balance. There is none. Right?
Crystal Page:She said she goes to the mosque, and I really appreciated, Grant, when you asked her specifically about mental well-being and the fact that that is a huge challenge for refugee populations right now, because I think we all know, and we will, by the time this is out, have heard from doctor Ben Maxwell that well-being for any population access is a real issue, and so hearing her identify this as a real issue for the refugee communities, I'm curious, you know, I know we're trying to do some things on this, but it seems like a a constant theme regardless of population.
Grant Oliphant:Well, we're yes. I you're exactly right, and we're seeing in the in the work, as you know, that mental health, behavioral health issues are emerging for every age group and every population, but certainly this is one that where it comes into play. And I thought it was fascinating how she talked about the stigma that still very much exists in the in in much of the refugee community around acknowledging this is an issue, and that is an area of work to be done, helping people become comfortable with the help that they need, or might need, or might benefit from is, is part of the task. It's not just responding to the crisis, but helping people even see the crisis in the first place. You know, she used a phrase that I know resonated with both of us that really comes into play there, which I think is important for medical professionals, is this notion of cultural humility, you know, that we that that we think we know the answers for other people, and most of the time we don't.
Grant Oliphant:You know, most of the time we get it wrong because we aren't from the same culture, or we get it wrong because we are, we're not the people who are experiencing the the thing ourselves. So I I just think that resonated incredibly.
Crystal Page:Oh, that really resonated with me as well. I feel like, we're constantly at risk of putting our foot in our mouth. So the idea that it's like approach something with that humility, I think is a tool that we all could probably afford to practice a lot more. But thinking about someone who is constantly working across difference, Amina is, and it seems like they focus on similarity and connection and shared goals, and that's how those bridges are built. There's a connection.
Crystal Page:She even mentioned a connection with us as Prebys Foundation because there's a similarity. There's a shared understanding now and so I just admire her as a bridge builder.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah, I actually thought that was a fascinating part of the interview too, talking about how to bridge divides, help people talk across whatever differences they might have. She clearly views that as part of the work of the of the Refugee Community Coalition and as part of her work in in health equity, and she embodies it. You know, she and I but I I what I found really great, Crystal, was when she talked about the tools that you and I and others can use to do this work. Right? Because it again, we use jargon, bridge building, and, you know, we we use these phrases.
Grant Oliphant:And, you know, what it amounts to is I loved her example of you see somebody at a gathering and they're standing alone and they look like they don't fit. Go talk to them. Ask them about their lives. Be willing maybe even to get it wrong, and and just connect on a human level. I thought that was fantastic.
Crystal Page:Yeah. You're right. Because we know we did speaking of jargon, we did a lot of focus on belonging last year, and that was a connect for her to us. It's really all about how do we make people feel welcomed like they're seen in a room. And I think we all wanna do that, and we all know what it feels like when we don't feel welcome in a space.
Crystal Page:You know? And she did not waste any time on naming places where she hasn't felt welcome. She instead is choosing to focus on making others feel welcome and finding a place for herself.
Grant Oliphant:Yes. So often in this interview, she had the opportunity to go negative, and she went positive. Right? You know? And I think that's partly an expression of her personality.
Grant Oliphant:It's also an expression of how she sees the work though, that the way we have to build this vision of an inclusive society is by leaning into the strengths that it has, and and encouraging people. You know, she even used that phrase at one point of leaning in where there is momentum. And I I think that is part of the secret here, that there are places where important progress and connections are happening, and we should build on those. That's the, you know, that's the magic sauce if there is one. I just found it to be an incredibly powerful conversation.
Crystal Page:Yeah. I'm just grateful because we've spent time with her because of this leaders in belonging award, but I just feel like there's more and more knowledge to glean from her And to apply going forward for ourselves.
Grant Oliphant:Well, I, you know, I think, you and I love doing these interviews because we always walk away feeling smarter and like we've learned something. In this case, I just also feel, connected in terms of deeper meaning in the work. There is a way that she thinks about it, which I think connects, at least for me, with how we think about it, how our foundation aspires to think about it. They're people of amazing faith and backgrounds in this community, trying to change the world, and using this community as the place to do it. It's really cool to get to be a part of that.
Crystal Page:I think that's a great final thought, Grant.
Grant Oliphant:Alright, Crystal. Thank you so much for having this conversation.
Crystal Page:Thank you.
Grant Oliphant:This is a production of the Prebys Foundation, hosted by Grant Oliphant, and co hosted by Crystal Page. The program is co produced by Crystal Page and Adam Greenfield, and it's engineered by Adam Greenfield. Production assistance is provided by Tess Karesky And our new theme song is by mister Lyrical Groove, a local San Diego artist. Download episodes at your favorite podcatcher or visit us at stop and talk podcast.org.
Grant Oliphant:If you like this show, and we really hope you do, the best way to support it is to share, subscribe, and review our podcast. Thank you for your support, your ideas, and most of all, for listening. This program has been recorded at The Voice of San Diego Podcast Studio.