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Welcome to "Visionary Voices" the podcast where we dive into the minds of business owners, founders, executives, and everyone in between.
Each episode brings you face-to-face with the leading lights of industry and innovation.
Join us as we uncover the stories behind the success and the lessons learned along the way.
Whether you're climbing the corporate ladder or just starting your business journey, these are the conversations you need to hear - packed with visionary voices and insights.
Let's begin.
So welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for taking the time.
Could you give us a top level view of what it is that you do right now and your journey so
far?
Hi, well it's been quite a long journey, Ikel.
A little bit longer than yours.
So what do I do?
I help women bust through their self-doubt and to achieve what they want to achieve.
And within that, I target women because that's where I have the biggest impact.
However, whenever we do programs in corporates, coaching and learning and authentic
leadership programs in corporates, we usually have between 25 and 50 % men there too,
which is...
just amazing because they're wanting to be more authentic in their leadership, just like
women are, and step into their own truth and their own power.
So that's where my journey has come to in the last sort of over the years, over the
decades, and come from being a health professional and occupational therapist, sort of
specializing in neuroscience, neuro rehab, through into education, and then through into
research where I did my PhD about 10 years ago, and then have sort of
pulled all that together and co-founded this company that we run, Walt Institute, where we
do authentic leadership training and coaching throughout the world.
Wow, amazing.
So I'm assuming it's been quite a journey for you, know, getting to this point, going
through the PhD process and everything like that.
So why did you decide to, you know, go through that education, learn all those different
things, and then go into actually starting your own business rather than just working into
a business?
Like, why did you decide to take this type of path rather than the traditional path, let's
say?
traditional path.
Yeah I worked for organizations companies for quite a few decades and and I sort of get to
the stage of like I you know I get so frustrated with with I was on a podcast the other
day about bad bosses you know bad bosses great leaders sorry but a of a promo but it just
came into my mind and and I had so many bad leaders that I worked with and organizations
and I just got
so frustrated with it.
And I still work in an organization as well, so I do this alongside our business.
And except the organization that I'm in allows you to flourish and has the components of
authentic leadership throughout the organization.
And every person is so important to enhance who they're being.
And so creating the business, it sort of came through a lot of frustration where
this, you we can do this better.
And I had learned so much myself through trial and error, many errors, many mistakes.
And then I realised that I had something to share to other people and could help them walk
alongside them so that they can step into their authentic leadership and create more high
performing teams, much more satisfying workplaces, much more meaning beyond themselves.
And we just sort of keep growing and accelerating their growth and their team's growth and
their organization's growth because of it.
I love those stories when people start a business because they've witnessed a problem or
they witnessed something there and they're like, do you know what, we can solve this.
I was on a podcast, this was a couple months ago now, and we're also talking about impact.
And it's so easy when you look at your business saying, yeah, we impact maybe this group
of people.
But then when you kind of spread it out in terms of the actual impact that you have is
like, you go through the coaching process with a group of people, they then trickle it
down to the wider organization and it trickles out that way.
and you can have such a big impact.
And so when you kind of combine those two things where you have the potential to have a
huge impact plus your mission with it is also very authentic as you're saying, then
ultimately you're get some amazing results from it.
So it's really cool to hear that you've had that same story, you're getting into the
entrepreneurship game.
It's, you know what, there's a problem here, we can solve it.
And this is how we do it to actually create the impact that we're looking for.
Absolutely.
I think we underestimate the impact because I read something once a while ago and so the
being a researcher but the details are a little bit sketchy because it was a while ago.
I think it was for every one person you you impact in your workspace.
It has a ripple effect of up to 6,000 over your lifetime.
Now that is amazing because every one person I impact I'm going to say that again.
it can have this ripple effect over your lifespan of up to 6,000 people.
So we can all impact, and we can choose if we impact them for good or if we impact them
for not so good, because that is our choice, that is who we're being.
And if we step up and be the best version of ourselves every day, then our impact is going
to be even stronger than that and more impactful than that.
And I think as entrepreneurs, it's really important to come back to that.
I was reminded of that by my coach yesterday.
And because I was going, ah, this isn't working again.
I'm a bit frustrated.
We've done this and we've done this and we've changed this and we've consulted over here
and we've tweaked this and we've got the bestest landing page over here and we've
consulted with people over there and we've formed this collaboration with these people who
are amazing in their field and you're chuckling because it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
still not working.
And within that, she would just remind me, she goes, are you having impact on people?
Yes.
Have you changed people's lives?
Hell yes.
And I don't even know the people that I've changed from their impact.
Because as I said, I impact this one piece in here and they take on one tiny tweak, they
make one tiny shift, they make one move, they redirect where their focus is.
And the ripple effect can be huge.
Personally, professionally, in life and fun, in purpose and meaning, absolutely
everything.
And that's why I do what I do.
That's why I get up early in the mornings and do what I do.
That's why I work sometimes into the evenings.
And that's why I take days off so I refresh, renew, and get up and do it again.
Yeah, no, definitely.
It's such an amazing mission, you know, because I've met a lot of business owners or
entrepreneurs where the mission, you know, there isn't really a mission there is, you
getting money or whatever it's going to be, which is fine.
But I love it when I speak to entrepreneurs with a, with a mission, right.
And actually having that impact is so cool to hear.
And so when it comes down to the impact that you create, how do you create that impact?
And what does that look like from the consulting point of view?
And how do you create the change within the leaders, the organizations that you go in and
help with and consult with?
I think the first thing is that I have to be what I'm teaching.
So I've come across lots of people who go, yeah, I can teach you this and da-da-da-da.
And it was like, yeah, well, you're teaching life skills or health coaching or something
like that.
And it was like, to me, and I don't want to judge, but facts are you're not that healthy
and you're not that consistent and you're not showing up as that authentic self.
So I think the first thing is that, and it's not about arrogance or ego, because when
you're being authentic, it's not, it's my way or the highway type thing.
You are so in tune with who you're being, and you're so in tune with those little things
that crop up in your mind, your self-talk, your actions, and the responses that you're
feeling to situations and people and events.
And so I think the first thing to have an impact from what we do is that we practice what
we're teaching.
We absolutely practice it.
One of the examples of this was we were doing a program last year around increasing
resilience and grit.
So we talk about resilience as bouncing forward because we don't want to just bounce back
to the same shit different day.
I want to bounce forward.
I want to grow on, expand on, learn new things so that I'm in a different place.
tomorrow than I was yesterday.
And so within that, I was like, okay, well, I guess it's cool to action, practice what I'm
teaching.
If I'm encouraging people to step out of their comfort zone and do scary things and have
courageous conversations in the workplace and actually set boundaries in their lives so
that they have more flourishing ability in their lives to go, actually, no, that's a no,
and I'm not gonna do that.
And so if I'm teaching this, then I need to step up into my my uncomfort zone as well and
be comfortable with being uncomfortable.
And so for eight months, I did ice baths every morning.
Now that for me was huge.
One, I hate water.
Not hate it.
I like looking at it.
I really, really don't like cold.
And early mornings in the dark.
in the wind and the rain outside in the ice bath during winter?
that's so not me, And so for eight months I did this and I did it to train me.
I did it for my ability to go, I don't wanna do this, I'm tired, I've got a headache, my
back hurts, whatever it is, doesn't matter.
It's six in the morning, it's blowing a gale and now it's hailing, okay.
And it's now time for me to go one, two, and down I go.
And that is so important for every one of us.
Are we practicing what we're teaching?
Are we actually being real models?
Not role models, real models.
Are we being real?
Are we being honest?
Are we being authentic?
Are we actually showing up and doing the do consistently so that it becomes a habit?
So somebody can look at somebody and go, my gosh, that's a person I wanna learn off.
that's our call to action, I believe, and the impact starts with who I'm being, who I'm
showing up consistently every single day.
Yeah, I completely agree with you.
And it's also the case of when you're consulting with people and trying to change people
in subject matters where you're not showing up authentically as well, that's gonna come
through in the way you deliver that.
When you've gone through, like for example, the ice bath side of things, and you've
developed that grit for those different things, is that when you then teach that to people
and create the change within them, it's actually real, right?
And it comes through the body language, it comes through your persona and your personality
because you...
because you are that person, right?
You are doing those things.
Whereas when it's unauthentic and it's not what you're doing, people can tell.
And I think that seeps through a little bit as well when you're actually trying to coach
people and consult people on top of it.
So to your point, I think it's so important, you know, is to do what it is that you're
teaching other people to do or helping other people do as well.
Because ultimately, how can we know it's gonna have the impact and how do you know how to
create the impact if we don't know how to do it for ourselves anyway?
Right, we need to figure that one out first before we can then roll it out.
know, further on.
And it's the same thing in business is, you know, cause I'm in the marketing agency space.
It's so funny.
There's a lot of marketing agencies that pop up now.
You everyone knows, everyone knows about that.
get cold emails all the time.
And, um, you know, a lot of these marketing agencies, but it's so funny because a lot of
the times, you know, the system that they sell, they don't actually use themselves and
I'll contact you on some other channel.
And it's so interesting to me that that's the case because ultimately if your system that
you're selling is so good, why aren't you?
scaling your business yourself with that same system, right?
It's the same type of process or concept, but in that business sense.
So I completely agree with you there.
And then from the, I guess the service delivery, so getting a little bit deeper into the
weeds about how do you actually, you know, do this in real life with these people in these
groups and these leaders?
How do you start this conversation?
How do you create this change within them?
And then we can go from there.
do it?
Well I don't actually make people do anything haha because it's all about the person's
decision to take that step and to integrate the information.
So of course we need to have information when it's new to us and we need to have that
application.
I can't make people do that I can inspire and I can influence.
We have ways of doing that.
We're working with people.
And we link in that whole thing of neuroscience.
was like, you'll wanna do this with your team.
You'll wanna start this right now.
And they go, yeah, okay, I do.
Because I've just influenced your thinking.
I haven't made you do anything.
It's still your choice.
I haven't taken away your choice at all.
I've set it in a way that it's like, yeah, I do want to do this.
I really want to do this.
I want to have this meeting with the team and set these ground rules in place and ask
these amazing questions instead of telling them what to do.
And so it starts with information and putting that in context and application in relation
to stories.
And then what works best with organizations and also individuals is
is some training and then the one-on-one coaching as well or group coaching.
We do group coaching programs as well and people get exponential growth out of that
because you can bring where you're at and that's what authentic leadership is.
We don't take you through a set of modules, well we sort of do, because we know what's
setting you up for being an authentic leader.
However within that there's so much flexibility and so much agility with what we do and
how we do it.
that we're listening to where you're at and we're bringing these things into play and
identifying what you can do.
And often people think when they do things like leadership training or they're doing
change of life direction or learning some new skills, often people come in saying with
language like it's big and hard and I've never done this before and it's a bit scary and I
don't know if I can do it.
Language, language, language.
Language is so important because every time we think a thought or say something those
words trigger a chemical reaction and that chemical reaction then elicits that response
within our body and we feel stuff.
So if I'm going, my gosh, I'm so scared.
I've never been on a podcast before.
I haven't been on heaps.
I've never been on a podcast before.
It's like.
I don't know if I can do this.
what if technology doesn't do this?
What if I don't speak right?
What if this doesn't happen?
What if, what if, what if?
And we jump into that sort of mode.
All of those thoughts, I have to change them now for me in a minute.
Because all of those thoughts, even for me, elicit this chemical reaction.
And that chemical reaction then gets interpreted by us in our bodies as the stress
response.
I'm scared, I'm fearful.
my gosh, I can't do this.
I'm nervous, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Now, if I go into something and go, I've spoken to thousands of people all over the world
at all different times, and I may not have done a podcast yet.
However, I can bring all those skills of speaking to people.
I know my message.
I'm passionate about my topic.
I can show up and speak.
I have a voice.
I can show up and speak.
I stack all those things that I've done before.
I've been to this...
meeting where I spoke up.
I went to this conference and I spoke there.
I went over here and I did that.
And so we stack up our goodies.
If I'm saying that, I'm feeling solid and strong inside.
And it was like, I may not have done this little bit of being on a podcast.
As I said, I've done heaps.
That's fine.
I may not have done this little extra bit.
That's a context or a person or a particular thing.
However, when you stack up all those goods of
all the things you've done around it, is like, yep, I've got this.
So our language is so important.
I love that quote from Henry Ford.
If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right.
Yeah, yeah, completely agree.
And it's that self talk, right?
If I'm going to take a lesson from this is self talk is so unbelievably important with
whatever that you know, anything that you're doing, because I mean, correct me if wrong,
because you have the neuroscience background and everything, but you your body reacts to
words, even if the words aren't true, right?
Is that you can think your way into a negative physiological state.
And that will obviously come through in terms of whatever it is that you're doing.
And so it's that self-taught principle, is so important.
And I guess it's tough as a leader or being in a team or even just being an entrepreneur
itself is when you do go through those pitfalls and those stresses, how do you maintain
that confidence or maintain those things when it maybe feels like you're at low point?
I mean, from what you've experienced or from the leaders that you've spoken to, what do
they do when they are at that low point to bring themselves back up?
Or how do they maybe stay neutral even if...
all around them seems like there's fires everywhere, how do they stay neutral and keep
moving forward with it?
Yeah, yeah, that often happens to all of us.
And so our reactions are just a pattern.
So what we do is we teach and train them how to notice those patterns and basically not be
scared of them, because they're just patterns.
They're just things that we've created in our lives.
It's got us to where we are.
It's fantastic.
That's amazing.
Fantastic.
You got to where you are because of those patterns.
And now that you're aware of them,
you get to choose if you keep them or if you shift them.
And so bringing that whole language and things into it, it happens right at the beginning.
People say, you just think positively and it'll be all right.
I mean, you can have a cataclysmic event that happens.
For example, six months after I was married, my partner was diagnosed with cancer.
That was pretty cataclysmic for me.
and for us and we work in the company together and and it was like crap and so we we
followed our principles again first of all you have to call it as is we did this we say
call it as is have your nano tante because within that you're honoring your response
you're honoring your feelings you're honoring your reactions and you're recognizing and
noticing what it is for you
You're not suppressing it.
You're not pretending it's something that it's not.
You're recognizing it and honoring it for what it is.
And then from there, I get to choose what I do next.
So we would have those moments all throughout the time, the time that she was getting
treatment and everything.
It was amazing.
It was one of the best few months in our lives because...
We chose every single morning to step up and be a joy germ.
We chose to spread joy to the people in the waiting room, to the staff at the clinic, to
the people we saw on the street when we were walking from the car to the hospital.
It was like, we chose to spread joy.
Yes, there were moments of, my gosh, I don't know if she's gonna be around in six weeks
time, let alone forever.
There were moments of like, my gosh, I don't know if there's anything else left in me to
give here.
Yes, there were moments like that and we called it as is.
And then we chose not to sit in it.
We chose not to cling onto it and we chose not to get stuck in it.
So that's what people can do as well.
You recognise what's happening.
If it's shit, it's shit.
If it's big, it's big.
Call it whatever you like.
And...
Don't stay stuck in it because you get to choose the next step of moving through that and
you hook into your language.
We didn't keep saying it was the biggest thing in our lives and it was tough and it was
horrible and it was dreadful and it was huge.
We didn't keep that language.
We chose to go, this is an opportunity that we are walking through and some moments of
some days, it's tough.
We didn't write the whole day off.
some moments and days we would respond and get upset or go, my gosh, I don't know what
we're gonna do here financially, I don't know what we're gonna do here emotionally.
It was like, there's just nothing left.
And other days it was like, we chose different moments throughout the day.
So we didn't stay stuck in it.
We didn't go, because somebody backed into my car and put a dent in the door, my whole
week's ruined.
We didn't catastrophize.
over those things.
And so again, it comes back to the language and we talk about supercharging your language
and authentic leadership, the trainings that we do.
You supercharge it.
You choose that language, like you said, you choose that language that flips a different
switch.
There's this beautiful, beautiful experiment by Dr.
Imoto in Japan many, many years ago.
And a lot of other people have sort of worked and moved on.
through that as well and lot of other neurosciences keep identifying that it's so
important.
He identified, he had some water in different vials, tumblers, things.
I'm not a chemist.
I'm a social scientist, not a chemist, anyway.
You
He had the same water in different containers.
There we go, containers.
And he put them under different things.
So one of the experiments was he put different words with tape on them.
So one of them was joy and love and hate and anger and resentment and guilt and shame and
passion and purpose.
And he had different words on the containers.
and then he put the drops of water under a microscope and magnified it and took photos of
it and the crystals of the water changed.
Now our bodies are 70 to, depending what research you use, 65 to 75 % water.
The words that we use, the things that we hear, the news that we continually jump into,
the podcast, the TV, the music, it actually makes a difference in ourselves.
He also did it where he played different types of music to the water.
and the cells in the water changed.
He also did an experiment where in school they had cups of rice in different places and
around the school and they told the school kids, when you go past this one, you say really
good words like, I really like you, you're cool to hang out with.
You just talk to the rice really nicely.
Over here you can say whatever you like, that's really not nice.
You could just let it all hang out.
And at the end of the week,
One lot of rice, the one that they said nasty things to was mouldy, the other one was not.
This stuff works.
This is huge.
People underestimate the power of the word.
It's not positive thinking, because positive thinking is pretending that something's like
something when it's not.
It's stimulating that connection between your head, your heart, your body, your cells, and
they get congruent, and it's like, this is how you lead.
This is how you get through adversity.
This is how you step into your absolute power and self-belief.
Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't it?
I mean, I guess to sum it up, it's choosing joy intentionally, right?
Where you're authentically actually choosing it, right?
You're not just saying it, you know, just the words, but you're actually choosing it
intentionally when it comes down to, you know, the actions that you're doing and
everything.
But even on the level as you said, right, just a spoken word itself has so much power when
it comes down to the energy of things that you just need to be so careful with the
self-talk that you have.
And even the, I think the self-talk, not only what you're saying physically, but also in
your head, you know, what you're thinking about all the time.
Cause I mean, there's a quote, isn't it?
Where, you know, your thoughts go energy flows, right?
Where, you you could think your, you can think your way into a, into a negative, you know,
illness, say, or a negative situation just by thought itself.
But vice versa, you can also do it on the other way, you know, into, into positive, into a
positive life, right?
You can think your way into it and it will.
it will manifest into real life, right?
And so it is such an interesting concept.
And I guess from the business leaders or executives that you've spoken to, from a
psychological point of view, what are some of the most successful leaders?
What type of traits do they have?
And if you can sum up into just a few handful that you might have witnessed repeatedly
across different people, what have you seen in that regard?
Because I'm always interested in, are there some common
things that people do, right?
Like self-talk, those types of things.
Is there anything else there that people can maybe focus on to start improving their life
and their team or whatever that looks like?
Absolutely.
So I'll just sort of briefly touch on the four components of authentic leadership because
when we do this, this is how we change our lives.
And so the first one is self-awareness and it's recognizing what's happening in here.
So that sort of links to what I was talking about before about calling as is.
If you're having this response and this reaction to something, recognize it, validate it.
And you can train yourself, I've been training myself to get that reaction down to 90
seconds.
I trained myself, started, I can't remember who it was, somebody suggested that you put a
timer on and so you have your nano-tante, as I said before, you have a nano-tante and you
time it.
You put a timer on for five minutes and you say whatever you like, you stomp your feet,
you swear, you yell, you scream, you do whatever you want where it's safe and you're not
hitting anyone.
And you put a time limit on it.
and you train yourself to go for that whole time.
And then at the end of that five minutes, you stop and then you shift your responses,
because you've got all this negative chemicals flowing around your body.
So then you need to shift your state.
So you can shake it out.
You can put your favorite song and dance it out.
You can go for a walk outside.
You can stand and look at the clouds.
You can do whatever is going to shift your state of your body at that moment.
And then you get to choose what next.
And it's just a pattern.
just like the pattern of like, oh that person said this and that means that I'm not doing
a good job and I thought I was and then I go and talk to this person and it was like, they
don't trust me in my workplace and they're a terrible leader and da da da da and I just,
oh I'm just so stressed and I'm so busy and I just can't do this and you just go down that
spire.
but you've had your opportunity for that five minutes and then you train yourself to go,
okay, that's that there, right.
Breath is good.
Breath is fantastic.
And then you get to choose what comes next.
And this is an absolute life hack, an absolute game changer of self-awareness.
And there's another little caveat within that as well.
So the self-awareness, it took me about 12, 15 years to recognize this one, because I was
so good at going, I'm not good enough.
don't deserve this, I'm such a failure, I don't know how to do this and part of that was
driving me to learn more.
And within that, I've learned that when I notice these things cropping up, I do it without
blame, shame, guilt or judgement.
And you mentioned neutral before, Akeel, and it's about seeing things with neutrality.
It was like it is what it is.
Okay, I had an argument with someone.
Okay, I stuffed up, I lost my cool.
It is what it is.
I get to choose if I go, my gosh, it's terrible.
I did the most terrible thing and I keep thinking about it and mulling over it and
dreaming about it and losing sleep over it and taking it with me every single day and it
just makes the burden heavier and heavier and I get lower and lower within me and with
what I do.
And then I'm more likely to spark off and get angry and tit-she with somebody else.
And so within those moments, it's like self-awareness.
this has happened.
that's interesting.
Jump into language.
We use the words, that's fascinating.
Ooh, interesting.
Just learning French.
Interesting.
Très intéressant.
And so you change the language, you change the chemical response, you change how you're
feeling.
And that's self-awareness.
Then the next bit is self-regulation.
I love this bit, because it's dialing up and dialing down your innate strengths.
It's like, I'm really good at connecting with people.
I haven't connected with people.
I need to do this more here.
And it's not just the doing, it's the dialing up.
And leaders can do this in any situation.
They might find, I was working with somebody the other day when they were having a
courageous conversation around performance, underperforming with one of their team
members.
And so we worked through beforehand, who was she being when she was going into that
meeting?
Who was she showing up before she went in there?
And we went from, this person never does this, they're always doing this, they drive me
nuts, they push my buttons.
We went from that, took a few weeks, but that's okay.
About three weeks and she was on it, it was awesome.
So we went from that to going, okay, this person,
has their stories, their narrative, their truth, their reality.
I have my stories, truth, reality for me.
And I choose to be open, curious, listening, compassionate, directive, clear, confident,
whatever it was.
She chose to be that, to go into that meeting, to have that meeting, to have a good
outcome.
And she did, and it went.
10 times better than she ever thought it would ever work.
And so these things work, self-awareness and self-regulation, they're just two of the
components to start with, but they are really powerful components that we can all do.
Doesn't matter what our job is, what our title is, who we are in that moment, what our
role is in that moment.
If we wanna step into our Phoenix hours, self-awareness, self-regulation are two of the
four things that we absolutely
get to practice, strengthen, become habits.
And I constantly learn things about myself and go, ooh, there's another one that's showing
up.
that's interesting.
I've got this and this this, sussed, but that particular thing, so what's that about it?
And I get curious about it.
And I go into it without shame, without blame, without guilt, without judgment of myself
or the other person.
And then I can explore it.
and then shift into a different place.
It's so interesting what you were just saying there, that example, it reminded me of
something actually my dad used to say to me.
was like, look, there's always three sides to every story, right?
There's your side, their side, and the truth.
And the truth is always somewhere in the middle.
And it's somewhere in that neutral ground.
But you need to obviously be able to drop your guard a little bit and go into that and ask
those questions that you need to ask when you're going through those difficult
conversations, right?
To really understand what's been going on.
And I think it just ties back to what you said before, you know.
being neutral within this, right?
You need to find that middle ground of, yes, accepting what it is, as you said, right?
Just accept it, but then go into that neutral zone, right?
To fully understand what's happening there.
And then you can move forward from there.
So I think that's a really cool framework that you have there as well on how to be
authentic and how to start showing up there.
I guess within your own entrepreneurial journey as well, because as you were just saying,
you're always learning new things about yourself.
I guess what's a couple of the major things that you've maybe worked through yourself that
were big shifts for you and maybe other people might be able to resonate with that and
take those lessons as well.
Is there anything there on your journey?
Absolutely.
Probably the biggest thing for me was believing that I was a nap.
Mm.
For years, for decades, I'm the youngest of nine.
I felt like I didn't have a voice because I was just a little annoying sister.
And throughout all different things and events and situations that I grew up with, I took
on board that I wasn't important, that I didn't have a voice, that no one's gonna listen
to me, that I wasn't enough.
And it's not good, bad, right, wrong or anything.
It just is.
That was my truth.
doesn't matter, I'm not blaming anybody, I'm not accusing anybody of anything.
It's just like, that's where I came from.
That's where I came into.
when I was about 15, no, about 20 years ago, 20 or so years ago, I was like absolute crash
and burn, absolute crash and burn.
Cause I was trying to do everything and be everything for everybody because I didn't know
who I was.
And I didn't believe that I was okay as me.
without having to do anything.
So there was this drive to find a better way, this drive to, there has to be something
better in life than what I'm currently experiencing, because it was just so painful and
big and hard and hurtful, and yes, I used all those words and I was staying and stuck in
them for months.
And so was like, there has to be something different.
And I went on this...
progression of learning and expanding and being uncomfortable and putting myself out there
and doing incredible things and incredible places where I was like, I can do this.
wow.
And throughout that, it was actually at a meditation retreat that just sort of happened
not long after Christine was diagnosed and it was like, I need some help here.
And I went to a meditation retreat and never had been to one before.
And it was so poignant, there was a weekend retreat and part way through that retreat
there was this amazing music and one by one we went up on stage to have a look at
something behind that was sort of covered behind the screen.
And we got to look at the most precious thing in the world and it was a mirror.
And I was looking at myself, still brings tears to my eyes, I love it.
I was looking at myself and the way the lights were, I don't know if they planned this,
but just the way, because it was just a room in this retreat room.
The way the light was, the light was shining down and it was hitting my head and just sort
of shining into the mirror.
And it was like, it was the most amazing, powerful few minutes where I went,
I am precious.
I am worthy.
I don't have to do anything.
I don't have to be anyone.
I don't have to please people.
I don't have to produce stuff.
I don't have to accomplish things.
I don't have to have a certain amount of money or prestige or job title or position.
It's just me, just me, just me in this moment, in this world.
I am worth it.
And I am worthy.
And that was an amazing moment that happened in 2016 that has set me up for going forward
with more strength and more confidence that I get to be me.
Some people like it, some people don't.
That's okay.
That's not my business.
I attract some people, I repel others, that's okay, that's not my business.
And I've learned and learned, still learning, how strong and powerful that is.
And I would love to share that with anybody at any age, because you don't have to get to
my age to realize that.
You can recognize that and believe that and step into that and live that at any age.
Yeah, that's such a powerful lesson there.
Right.
And especially, you know, being for me and my peers, we're relatively new entrepreneurs
and we get into it and we think we need to do this, we need to do that, we need to achieve
these certain things.
And, you know, I've noticed this in the past kind of year where I've become really
conscious about it is, previously I was really going down the path of not being authentic.
Right.
I was just doing it because I thought I to do it that way.
And, know, I was aspiring to certain things.
I thought, you know, that's probably the right thing to do.
But it wasn't what I wanted to do overall and so it's you know for me at least it's been a
constant Not battle, but it's a case of I kind of move into that recognize it pull myself
out of it Then you slowly kind of get into it again, and then you've to pull yourself back
out You know of that and start being more authentic, but it's never just at least for me
It's never been like black and white where you know one one.
You know I'm not authentic to myself less say and then suddenly I am right straight away
mm.
as you were kind of saying with this, with this journey is you're constantly learning and
pulling yourself back into that, and recognizing it.
And I think just becoming conscious about it because it's so easy to forget, you know, in
the day to day of running a business and managing the team and the day to day of what all
those things that you've to do is it can start putting you, putting you into, know, not
being authentic, not doing the things that you want to do for whatever reason that is.
and it's so, so interesting that you've, figured that one out.
during that type of meditation, where you're just looking at reflection of yourself, but
then it kind of clicks in your brain.
And so I think that's really cool.
And I think that's something as well people could also work into their mindfulness or
their meditation, whatever it is that they're doing is, try these different things,
because it's just so powerful.
And when you do get it to click in your brain, it's interesting the feeling that you get
after it as well.
It's like, physiologically you change, right?
And you really do feel those emotions on a very deep level.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And it doesn't have to be through meditation.
There's lots of different ways.
But for me at that moment, that was the vehicle that worked for me and was hugely
powerful.
We do this with questioning with many of our clients and people that we coach and train.
It's like often we just ask a question.
And we ask really good questions, that's what we're trying to do.
And ask really amazing questions that can sometimes seem confronting and provoking.
However, that's what we're wanting to do because we're wanting to disrupt those automatic
patterns that you have.
because they're the ones that are holding you back and we can see them because it's like
when we coach people it's like we can see what's written on the outside of the the pill
bottle you're on the inside we can see what's written on the outside you can't because
you're on the inside and that's fine that's why you have a coach and it's like oh that's
why I do that and so we do that through questioning and so many well all of the people
that we work with one-on-one in small groups and on and
online trainings and things is like we ask those questions to disrupt the BS.
And there's three types of BS.
These blind spots, we all have blind spots.
Even the most self aware people have blind spots.
The next BS is...
What is the next BS?
Blind spots.
You
I've done this so many times, millions of times I've said this and I've just gone complete
blank.
Anyway, the third one is bullshit, of course.
So we get stuck in what we're blind to ourselves and so we call you on it and it's not to
trip you up, it's not to blame or shame, it's to step into that, that's the pattern, do
you want to stay in that pattern?
No.
Let's shift through that.
so many of the times our questions, we do some of the work with Byron Katie as well, which
is the four amazing questions.
So is it true?
Is it true?
Absolutely all the time.
Who are you being with that BS belief or that statement?
And so with that statement, I'm not good enough.
Who am I being?
I'm playing small.
I'm upper limiting.
I'm holding myself back.
I'm never going to
achieve what I want to achieve.
All of these things for me was because I was playing small and because I didn't believe I
was enough.
so questioning can help people have that breakthrough as well.
So it doesn't just have to be in meditation.
I just want people to know that because some people go, meditation is not for me.
I don't do that.
And so it's for me, I learned meditation and it's changed my life as well.
It is just huge.
I am the calm.
light, fun, easy person that I am today because I do mindfulness and meditation every day.
Nearly every day.
I do it even when I'm cleaning my teeth.
Because you can do active mindfulness as well.
And some people go, I didn't realize that.
So you don't have to sit there for half an hour with your legs crossed, getting sore,
getting numb feet.
These are all different ways of doing it.
And so it's giving yourself that time and that space to have those realizations, to have
those breakthroughs.
And having somebody ask you amazing questions along the way is one of the quickest,
easiest, fastest routes to getting there as well.
Amazing.
Well, I've learned a lot on this podcast.
I've really enjoyed this conversation.
Where can people find you if they want to have this breakthrough, right?
And get asked these questions by you.
Where can they find you if they want to get coached and everything?
So, you know, it'd be good to direct them there because it's so powerful what you're
talking about here.
And I think everyone can really benefit from this.
Beautiful, thank you, Akelle.
So we're at WALT Institute, so it's womenauthenticleadershiptraininginstitute.com.
You'll find us in the website and there's contacts there.
We also do speaking.
My co-founder Christine, she has got a sports psychology background, so she is about real
high performance in sports teams and also corporates, because her belief is if you run a
corporate team like a sports team,
There are so many good things in it and you'll have a high performing team.
And so you'll find us on Walt Institute, w-a-l-t-institute.com.
And would love to see you on our website.
There's some free downloads.
There's some ways of contacting us.
There's links to podcasts, links to a YouTube channel, all of that sort of thing.
It will be fantastic to work alongside you anywhere in the world.
We have programs and people all around the world.
Amazing.
Thank you so much.