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The podcast for high-level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world.
If you’re a founder, executive, or high-ranking leader, you already know this truth: the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to.
Lonely at the Top is a sanctuary in the storm—a space where the emotional cost of leadership is named, and where relief, clarity, and grounded support are always on the table.
Hosted by Soul Medic and former psychotherapist Rachel Alexandria, this podcast dives into the unspoken realities of high-level decision-making: the pressure, the isolation, the doubt, and the fatigue. Each episode offers insight, emotional tools, and conversations with seasoned leaders who’ve learned to navigate the weight of responsibility without losing themselves.
[00:00:00] Sebastian: For the first time in my life, I experienced, like, very intense, and this is, like, trigger warning moment, like, suicidal ideation, and even had to be involuntarily, you know, hospitalized towards the end of the year to really lock in on my mental health. And so I'd be giving 100% and working and being at the studio till, like, 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning and trying to show up for people, sort of hearing the side chatter, and then being like, "Oh," like, "Do I even wanna be here at all?"
[00:00:30] Rachel: Welcome to Lonely at the Top, a podcast for high-level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world. Because you know the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to. Here, we welcome founders, executives, and decision-makers who feel the isolation and pressure that comes with power.
[00:00:49] Lonely at the Top is your sanctuary in the storm, and I'm your host, Soul Medic, and former psychotherapist, Rachel Alexandria. Today on the [00:01:00] podcast, we have Sebastian Martinez. Sebastian Martinez is a community advocate, artist, and executive director twice over. He serves as the ED/CEO of Culture Shock San Diego and the deputy executive director of the impact litigation organization, Community Advocates for Just and Moral Governance.
[00:01:24] I am so excited to have you on the show. For those... Well, no one's gonna know this. This is actually our take two
[00:01:32] Sebastian: Yes, it is. Yeah.
[00:01:34] Rachel: So I think we're, we're probably gonna get into a little bit of why, yeah?
[00:01:39] Sebastian: Absolutely. Yeah. So we, you know, had recorded this before, and it was, an incredible conversation, but I also at the time, was dealing with, for the first time in my career, a level of public scrutiny that I wasn't, used to, and was actually experiencing, some cyberbullying online [00:02:00] after I had made, a very important but kind of, I don't know, the, my local community was curious as to why I had made a certain decision to keep the space safe. And the amount of kind of, pressure and the way that I personalized that feedback, I kind of felt the need to hide. and so that's when I messaged you and asked, you know, "Hey, can we take this down for a second?
[00:02:22] I don't know that I can deal with more exposure than I have right now." And you graciously just got it and agreed. But, I've always been sort of itching to get back to this conversation and having the opportunity, I think, to do it more authentically, 'cause at the time I wanted to project strength and feel like I was on the other side of being lonely at the top, when really I was, like, plunging down into the depths of it.
[00:02:48] Rachel: You were right, in the hardest
[00:02:50] Sebastian: and so I feel like
[00:02:52] I have an opportunity, I guess, to be more authentic about the experience, you know?
[00:02:56] Rachel: I love that so much, and I, I see [00:03:00] how brave it is. It was brave of you to say, "Hey, I know you're about to publish this, but please don't." It was brave of you to come back and say, "Hey, I'd like to take a run at it again." I mean, that's, like, that's an automatic yes for me. Um, because, you know, all I'm interested in is real conversations, and the real stuff is messy,
[00:03:21] you know?
[00:03:22] Like, it's great to come on a leadership podcast and be like, "Oh, back in the day when I had problems and I was so young and ingenue, and I'm so mature now and I've figured everything out." And it's, I mean, sure, that's great. Like, you know, but I'm always trying to get people to get back into their experience. I'm trying to get people to get back into that mindset as much as possible because I don't think we're as helpful from a place of, " I have everything all figured out." I think we're more helpful from a like, "Oh, you're listening because you're going through shit, and so let me talk about me [00:04:00] going through shit," whether it was in the past or it's in the present.
[00:04:03] So I'm really excited that you wanted to do this, and I don't know a lot about the circumstances either, so, I will be learning along with our audience about what's, you know, what's the tea, what's been going on. As much as you wanna share, obviously.
[00:04:17] Sebastian: No, no, I really appreciate that and just the opportunity. I'm just excited to be transparent. You know, I, have been working at, uh, Community Advocates for Just and Moral Governance for quite some time now, and was really happy in the, litigation advocacy space. but I've been an artist for the last 17 years, and when the opportunity came up to combine community advocacy and health and wellness and the arts, Culture Shock San Diego is like an over 30-year, hip hop-based dance organization that provides, training for the community to build themselves as artists, and performance opportunities.
[00:04:53] And it's just one of the coolest spaces to be in. Like, even if you don't dance, it's cool to just come by and feel that energy. [00:05:00] Um, and so when I had the opportunity to kind of combine all of my skills and be immersed in art, it was a no-brainer. but I wasn't really prepared to step into, I think, 30 years of legacy and, the level of scrutiny and kind of community response that would come from that.
[00:05:18] listen, okay? I think, um, there was a lot of, I think understandable gatekeeping, you know, when something is so important to people, you know? but I'm a move into the future kinda person, not a nostalgic person. And so I think it took some time for folks to get my point of view, you know?
[00:05:38] Rachel: God, that's such a, that's such an interesting place to be. I really appreciate that you said that. Like, instead of nostalgia, a future facing, because I think that's one of the challenges usually of leadership, right? Especially as a new leader. Like, I've been brought in to take this organization forward, and people fricking hate [00:06:00] change.
[00:06:00] Everybody pretty universally hates change. And even when it's gonna end up being good, people resist it with all their might. It's biologically wired into us to keep homeostasis. So I think visionary leaders often don't recognize or, you know, we, we often have, the enthusiasm blinders essentially, where we're like, "Oh, I can see this vision," and literally no one else can.
[00:06:26] And they're just like, "You're just coming in, like all I see is the loss. I don't see the gains because I don't, I'm not in this vision with you." yeah, and I would also say from my experience of taking dance classes for the last more than 30 years, that dance teachers are such divas. They 'cause they have to be, right?
[00:06:46] You stand up in front of people and you have to be inspirational and you have to be charismatic and so I've never met a dance teacher that didn't have an outsized ego
[00:06:56] Sebastian: You know what's interesting? You know, I'm fortunate enough to work [00:07:00] with, like, the most exciting, inspirational group of instructors and artists. But it does take a level of confidence that is on a different level to step into the front of a classroom and not only, demonstrate what it's like, you know, to feel the heat of being a star, but also then translate that to other people and build their confidence.
[00:07:23] And so it's something that's been really interesting. You know, when we talk about ego, I didn't even know how much ego work I had left to do until I took this job, right? Because I've done work in, like, politics and done work in community advocacy work. I broke my teeth in the nonprofit space during the pandemic of all times.
[00:07:43] So it's like, I wasn't, not used to dealing with, supercharged personalities and people with strong opinions. Like, I love that arena. But I didn't realize there was a lot of sensitive space still in here in terms of confidence in my perspective. You [00:08:00] know, it's easy to have that confidence when you're not being challenged and people are just excited and grateful that you're present.
[00:08:05] Totally different when people are like, "Should you be here?" and so it's been the greatest expansion exercise, I think, of my life to be in this space. And, thankfully, I feel like I'm at a time now with the community that I work with where they now see kind of my desire to be there and to show up and to...
[00:08:25] They're on board. But it, yeah, it took a second, and it took, vulnerability from me, I think, to really get there, which was not a part of sort of my leadership toolkit. You know, my leadership toolkit was like, providing strength and trying to lead by example or to, like, step out of space and say, like, "I'm just here to hold space for you to be your most creative, inventive self.
[00:08:49] Best idea wins." And this was one of these moments where it's like, oh, you're gonna have to step a little bit in the center and kind of show your wounds in order for people to understand that, you [00:09:00] know, you mean no harm and you come to move things forward and... but you know, first, had to crash out a little bit.
[00:09:10] Rachel: Yeah. That's, Thank you for such a, I don't know, detailed share because I think that's the thing. I think a lot of people who aren't in leadership think that being a leader means being confident, having all your stuff together, never showing vulnerability, right? and it's not, especially when you're you know, new in an organization with people who have a lot of egos and- it's different in different circumstances, right?
[00:09:38] Like, if you're the CEO of a corporation and you can just fire people, maybe you can just rule with an iron fist and you don't care whether or not the people like you. But in an organization like yours, whether or not people feel safe with you and trust you is a huge deal because people could just take their classes and go elsewhere.
[00:09:57] Not like it's the easiest thing, but they could, [00:10:00] They're independent contractors, right?
[00:10:02] Sebastian: Yeah, we have a sort of a mixed group of both of staff and, independent contractors 'cause we're a nonprofit as well. But to your point, anytime you're doing community work, and I think working with artists is always, like, underneath community work, you have to have buy-in. People have to trust that you have b- their best interests in mind.
[00:10:20] People have to trust how you're, spending the money that they're all contributing to to bring into a space. Like, it's all about that relationship. and so even when people are sort of pointing fingers back at you and being like, "Why are you here? Do you deserve to be here? are you enough of an artist to be here?"
[00:10:37] Like, 20 different things, you still have to kind of be able to take that in and say, "Okay, I receive it. You have the space for that feedback. I'm not going to be, retaliatory about that feedback, and instead I'm just gonna show you by me continuing to be here that I get it." And, you know, overall, I think most of that feedback made me better, but it [00:11:00] definitely, like, punched me right in the solar plexus of my imposter syndrome, right?
[00:11:04] Like, I didn't just stay an artist, you know? I had... There was that journey in front of me, and I very quickly was like, " Oh, I don't have what it takes to do that. Let me, like, go into other leadership areas." so it sort of brought me right back to, like, that 15-year-old kid with two left feet being like, " Oh, I don't know why I'm here either, but I'd like to hang out."
[00:11:25] and this wasn't on anyone in my community because I also had a lot of support. But what I was not prepared for in the middle of this leadership opportunity was also to, like, have a massive mental health crisis, you know? For the first
[00:11:39] time, in my life I experienced, like, very intense, and this is, like, trigger warning moment, like suicidal ideation, and even had to be, involuntarily, you know, hospitalized towards the end of the year to really lock in on my mental health.
[00:11:54] And so I'd be giving 100% and working and being at the studio till, like, 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning 'cause, you know, [00:12:00] dance rehearsals are always late, and trying to show up for people, sort of hearing the side chatter, and then being like, "Oh," like, "Do I even wanna be here at all?" Um,
[00:12:12] and that was difficult because what I found was a level of performance I didn't know I possessed, which was like, " No one's gonna know I'm not okay.
[00:12:23] I'm gonna keep showing up ' cause that's my job." But inside I'm like " Oh, I can hear the train tracks three blocks from this studio." Like, that's how bad it was. And, there finally came a point where it was like, "Oh, no, like, you're going to have to do this a different way, and you're gonna have to be vulnerable and ask the people around you for help
[00:12:42] Rachel: Yeah. Oh, that's really intense, and I appreciate you sharing it. we don't talk enough about suicidal ideation in this culture, and I think if we could take the stigma off of it, it would be really helpful because the truth, I mean, I just know this sitting in [00:13:00] a therapist chair for decades, people think about it all the time.
[00:13:04] You know, lots of people think about it, you know, there's a difference between kind of being like... And I don't know which state you were in, but, like, there's a spectrum, right? Of, like, casually like, "It would be really nice to just not have to do any of this anymore," all the way to, like, having plans in place.
[00:13:20] Like, that's a big spectrum. Therapists are trained to ask, like, "Where are you on this spectrum?" so that we get a sense of how much help do we need to provide. Do you wanna share, how it was for you to break that conversation with friends? Like, how did you... 'Cause you said involuntarily, brought to a facility.
[00:13:41] Like, how did you get yourself to a place where you could get help?
[00:13:45] Sebastian: Yeah, yeah. So I guess technically, like on paper it was voluntary, but it was one of those conversations where they were like It's better for you to write down, if I'm being super honest, voluntary, but like if you didn't, we would have you stay here. You know? And it [00:14:00] was, that was kind of the, the medical conversation.
[00:14:02] but you know, to your point about a spectrum, you know, for quite some time I was just like, "Well, people have weird thoughts." You know, people, I had just gone through, again, that sort of cyberbullying experience. That had woken up things for me, the pressure of both the different roles I was in. I'm like, "Okay, it would make sense that I'm like struggling to acclimate."
[00:14:24] so for a minute there, I just, A, tried to ignore it, and B, thought, "Okay, well maybe, you know, this is just valid anxiety around what's happening to me and around me." but I remember being in my office and writing like notes of like goodbye notes and,
[00:14:44] Rachel: Oh boy.
[00:14:46] Sebastian: I started to, like during late rehearsals, I would go for walks, and there's a train near our studio and I would like go there.
[00:14:55] And, and so it was, it got to the point where it was, you know, fully in plan mode, [00:15:00] in letter-writing, in these just moments of panic and desperation and wanting things to stop. And then the clock would reset and I'd just be like back. You know, I'd leave for 20 minutes, like work through that moment, and then come back to work and be doing my thing.
[00:15:15] And, finally, you know, I was able to share, I think, in full scope with one of my, closest friends. shout out to Devin Hargret, who, you know, read the letter and was like, " Okay."
[00:15:28] You know, and really then showed up in like a completely different way, as my friend. And then eventually, you know, in full transparency, like my friends had to intervene during an episode, and then the cat was out of the bag in, you know, not a way necessarily where I fully reached out, but, in a way where thankfully, you know, they saved my life.
[00:15:49] And, it got that severe about two or three times, you know, during the holidays. And, I really had to dig deep and, you know, being hospitalized [00:16:00] is really not an experience I wish on most people. I'm sure it's different for different people. you know, thankfully I didn't have to stay too long. Very quickly everyone was like, "I don't think this environment is gonna be helpful for you 'cause you're clearly extremely functional, just in severe crisis."
[00:16:16] And I was in a s- you know, at a hospital where it was like people weren't functional, and I was like, "Ooh, this is not gonna help me calm down." You know?
[00:16:23] Rachel: Yeah. I've had a friend who went through some of this, and so I've heard a lot of firsthand reports and yeah, like, There's not the best options for people who are highly functional but are just in severe, temporary crisis, right?
[00:16:41] Like this crisis has to be managed and if we can take the temperature down on this, you actually are okay. It's just, it's like this, you know, emergent thing.
[00:16:52] Sebastian: Yeah, it really
[00:16:53] Rachel: not great options for that
[00:16:55] Sebastian: There's not great options and, you know, I'm really grateful, to the people [00:17:00] around me who kind of walked with me through every option, you know? My sister, my mother. shout out to, like, Justin Canty, who was our, my board chair at the time, who was just like, " We all know how good at this job you are.
[00:17:12] Like, do what you have to do." Because that was... a big, you know, I think reason I held back for so long for getting help,
[00:17:20] Rachel: You don't want people to know and think that you're not gonna, like, fire you, right? Like,
[00:17:25] Sebastian: Exactly. Like, you're not gonna make good decisions. and thankfully I have a really incredible board where that was ... It was never really in conversation, but my fear around it was. And, you know, I really credit, my best friend and longtime collaborator, you know, Dion Williams, who was like, " The f- do it afraid.
[00:17:46] You know? Tell the truth. Like, be ... We're here for you, but you have to be vulnerable enough to accept our help, you know?" He was sort of the tough love component of my life of like, " We all want you here, and I think you wanna be here. I [00:18:00] just think you're in a lot of pain." And, I'm really grateful to have had just an incredible support system of friends.
[00:18:05] And ultimately too, shout-out to the incredible instructors, dancers, work-study members, and artists at Culture Shock San Diego, because in those moments between mania and doing my job and trying to be brave enough to ask for help, I was also constantly being inspired by their artistry, and that kept me going.
[00:18:28] Like, oh, I do wanna at least come back here even if I don't wanna be here, like, overall. Someone's about to do something really incredible, and I'm gonna miss that if I dip out, you know? so I really do believe in the healing power of art and community coming together to, like, remind you why we're people and what's beautiful about being human
[00:18:50] Rachel: Hey, quick pause. If you've been listening to Lonely at the Top and something's landed, a story, a line, a moment that hit different, I wanna hear about it. Feedback [00:19:00] shapes where my show goes, and I read every message. If what you're carrying right now is bigger than a comment, if there's a pattern that you're ready to get out of, a decision that feels like you're stuck in it, or a version of yourself you're ready to leave behind, I'm opening a limited number of discounted magic sessions for listeners this month.
[00:19:20] One session, real movement. The link is in the show notes. Come find out what's actually possible when someone sees to the heart of what's going on and can help you get out. That's it. Back to the episode
[00:19:35] Well, I know people listening are gonna wanna know the answer to this. How are you feeling now?
[00:19:40] Sebastian: You know, I'm feeling really great. I mean, it took, I would say really up until a couple weeks ago to really feel in the space that I am now and a lot of work, and all kinds of work. You know what I mean?
[00:19:53] Rachel: Yeah,
[00:19:54] tell us about it
[00:19:54] Sebastian: having a great time, different types of therapy, spiritual work, like [00:20:00] anything and everything, to just kind of explore spaces that I had ignored or needed to heal in or need to continue putting in effort.
[00:20:09] you know, I'm the kind of person where I'm a maximizer, so I was like, " Okay, new job, let's kick butt on this, mental health crisis, let me fall in love. Let me run over he-," like, you know Let me do like 20 things at on- That didn't work out, but that's okay. Um, but
[00:20:25] Rachel: I was like,
[00:20:26] Sebastian: no, it actually worked out to something a lot better.
[00:20:28] But, um, I say all that to say that I think just being the fullness of my humanity was the way through it. Um, for so long I had just been the role
[00:20:39] Rachel: No. Yeah
[00:20:41] Sebastian: I'm just a boss. I'm gonna do that, and I'm gonna do that 24/7. And I needed to be, like, all different types of people and all different parts of myself in order to heal, and that's where I feel like I'm at today in a completely different head space because, hey, I've got a meeting later and we're having [00:21:00] this great event and we're working on this, and then I'm gonna go out to dinner with a friend, and then I'm actually gonna get some sleep.
[00:21:05] You know? Where,
[00:21:05] like, the balance of, separating, I have a really incredible collaborator and a mem- person on my board, Dr. Novi, who gave me the greatest piece of advice in the midst of all of this, and was like, " You need to separate yourself from the role. The criticism is of the role. It's not of you." And I was like, "Oh, yeah." It's the, the, the, that role is always gonna come with feedback and noise, as it should, because that's how we have accountability and leaders don't run off the rails. that doesn't have to mean anything about, like, Seb the person
[00:21:43] Rachel: Right. Yes, 100%. that's such good advice. And, you know, I mean, I get the same advice from my spiritual teacher, you know. Like your business has its own soul. I'm putting that in quote marks. Uh, but your business has its own energy, its own [00:22:00] entity, whatever, and it's not the same as you, even if you're the only person making the business run, which is not the case in your circumstance, so.
[00:22:08] But I, I think people in my circumstance who are the sole owner/operator get that even more, right? So I definitely can sympathize with like... Yeah, as a figurehead, you get transference.
[00:22:23] Sebastian: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:23] Rachel: You just do. People are gonna look at you as an authority, AKA mommy or daddy,
[00:22:28] and they're gonna put all their parent stuff on you 'cause that's just what we do in human psychology.
[00:22:34] Somebody's an authority figure to me, even if they didn't voluntary accept that role, I'm gonna put that role on them, and then I'm gonna make all this stuff about my parents be in their vicinity so I can try to work that stuff out. We do all of that subconsciously. It's real fun.
[00:22:52] Sebastian: No, that's so, it's... There are these funny moments where you're like, " Okay, I'm, filling in for, like, someone in [00:23:00] your life, who didn't show up to the plate, even if it's for like two minutes." And you know, I have to say, I think that's the part, of my job or just of being a leader that I do feel really equipped for.
[00:23:12] I'm like, "Oh no, I got you. I can show up for you right now," you know? but it is the work of releasing that after you do that, that I was not good at doing. It didn't go anywhere except kind of staying and messing things up in here. Um,
[00:23:28] Rachel: used to being that for everyone else, but not for yourself,
[00:23:31] Sebastian: Yeah. And it's also hard, right? Like, you have, It's, so one of the r- you know, reasons that we connected was through our, mutual superstar, friend, the
[00:23:40] incredible Angie Pond. Mm-hmm.
[00:23:43] Rachel: who has also been on the podcast, was our first episode. Go watch it. It's amazing.
[00:23:47] Sebastian: It's an incredible episode, and I have to tell you, I quote back a clip from that episode to myself all the time, um, about being the kind of leader, she was talking about being the kind of [00:24:00] leader her business needed.
[00:24:01] Rachel: Mm.
[00:24:02] Sebastian: and I reflect on that all the time, like especially when I'm in the middle of a difficult decision or, hey, okay, this is about to be uncomfortable.
[00:24:09] it, okay, put that aside for a second. What kind of leader does this moment require? and that's one of like 10,000 things, Angie has brought into my life and taught me. But, you know, one of the, things I've also learned too is it is important to spend time with other leaders, right? So that you can bounce things off.
[00:24:29] Like, I had a challenge the other day and Angie was like my first call. Like, "Hey, can you hold space for 10 minutes? 'Cause I actually don't have the answer to this." And then we talked through it, and by the end I did. But I think being able to, say that you don't have an answer to something but you'll go find it, is really valuable.
[00:24:48] 'Cause I used to be like, "I have to show up every second with the answer."
[00:24:52] Rachel: Oh my gosh, yes. It sounds like you have been getting a [00:25:00] masterclass in, personal growth and leadership, you know, through this experience. And, and no surprise, right? You're incredibly smart and you're incredibly motivated, and then when people show up to say, "You are worth keeping. We want you here," and then you develop that sense of, "I want me here, so what do I need to do?
[00:25:19] what kind of leader do I need in this moment?"
[00:25:22] Sebastian: Absolutely. It's the I want me here, that I, yeah, I, I don't think I'd ever, asked myself that and had that answer. Um, it was just about being in service and being in the mix and getting people what they needed. And, like now that is my first question on most things. Okay, what, what am I doing here?
[00:25:44] What is this serving? and, you know, not from a place of ego, but just remembering that trusting myself that I have, you know, typically the larger community's best intentions in mind, so I can take two seconds to ask myself if it's also serving me, [00:26:00] you know?
[00:26:00] Rachel: It needs to also serve you because yours is a story like many I've heard of what happens when it doesn't
[00:26:07] Sebastian: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:09] Rachel: Like first and foremost, you and everyone listening to this show are 100% worthy of your time, attention, and love. And you are worthy of other people's time, attention, and love. You just are. It, it's, it's innate. It's inherent. So, we've done ourselves a really, big disservice in building this idea that good people always only put other people first.
[00:26:37] But then it's like, well, who are the people who walk through that door? Like, if everyone's holding the door open for somebody, like who gets to walk through? Like, it's supposed to be a give and take. It's supposed to be flowing in and flowing out, right? Your cats are like having a battle
[00:26:53] in the background. I
[00:26:56] Sebastian: It's a metaphor
[00:26:57] for for leadership. There's [00:27:00] always something
[00:27:00] else happening
[00:27:01] Rachel: They're having this collaboration in the background. That was so funny. Sorry. But you know, like mean, I, I am just as susceptible, right? Like, I know this, this is the kind of people I attract on the show. These are the kind of clients I attract. I know it because I've lived it, and I continue having to work on it in myself, that yes, I love being of service.
[00:27:23] I love making other people happy. I love doing stuff that makes the world a better place, and it has to also serve me.
[00:27:31] It just has to because I'm a person and I, I need to be fulfilled also. And you know, it's... I get frustrated sometimes when we'll say stuff like, "Well, you know, if you, if it doesn't serve you, then you burn out and you can't be available for those other people."
[00:27:47] Well, that shouldn't be the only reason.
[00:27:49] Sebastian: Right.
[00:27:50] Rachel: You know what I mean? It sh- the It, can jut serve you. Yeah, yeah.
[00:27:53] it c- it should serve me because it just should serve me, and there's nothing wrong with having a healthy [00:28:00] ego. To be a leader, you have to on some level, some part of you has to have a big, healthy ego. It's just learning to acknowledge that and embrace that as a part of a whole, right?
[00:28:11] There's parts of me that are just happy to serve other people, whether or not I get recognition or paid or anything, and there's parts of me who need, to be acknowledged, who need to be funded, you know, who need to matter. And those are both valid parts of me.
[00:28:28] Sebastian: No, that's so real. And, and you know, it's interesting. I mean, you can sort of... I'll sit down and talk with, you know, artists all the time in between kind of these big moments. just happened to me the other day with a good friend who had taken a class in LA, and it was a class where she had the opportunity to get booked for a big job.
[00:28:47] And she got booked from the class, and then immediately was like, when asked about it, was like, "Oh, I don't know that I can do it." And then another one of, our friends called and said, "Hey, w- we need you to call. [00:29:00] We need you to make that call," and be like, "Get her together." And we spoke, and I'm like, "What are you talking about?
[00:29:05] Like, you've been working towards this moment for years. Like, why do you think you're not, worthy of saying yes to something you went and did? Like, you did all the hard stuff. It's right there." and I used to, you know, have that conversation with people. but at the same time I'm like, "Well, I do that, too."
[00:29:26] Okay? I've done that, too, to myself for a really long time. And so it's nice now having that dialogue from a place of I'm not going to tell you to do the brave thing. I'm telling you about the brave things I'm also doing. Like, it's a little bit more authentic because I'm not asking you to do something I'm not willing to do for myself.
[00:29:46] Like, we both deserve to go for it. I'm just reminding you of that, you know?
[00:29:50] Rachel: Yeah. that's real mentorship, right? most of us don't need or benefit from, controlling advice that's just like, "You [00:30:00] should blah, blah, blah." I mean, that just suppresses your, your internal drive and your internal knowing. We do benefit greatly from the leaders who will say, you know, "Hey, I get it.
[00:30:12] I've also been through it and/or I'm going through it right now, and here's what I've learned and I'm trying. I think these are your blind spots, and you might wanna look at it this way." Like then it's, not shaming and it's not putting a person one down. It's just like we're all in this human thing trying to make it work.
[00:30:31] I happen to have more authority in this moment from the system, but that doesn't make me any different than you as a person
[00:30:38] Sebastian: And it is that. it's just authority from the system, right? Like, it's, And we all take our turn on it. Like, I tell people that all the time. I'm like, why I'm in these roles, I wanna say yes as much as possible. If I have to say no, it's to kind of protect or create a future yes. Like, that's what I'm here to do, and I'm gonna do it for as long as, like, [00:31:00] it serves the community and me to be here.
[00:31:02] but I don't think that's this massive extended period of time. It's just in this moment, and trying to leave it better for whoever gets to do it next, you know? and hopefully leave a blueprint and a roadmap for people that are curious, to not be afraid to go do it next 'cause, you learn it as you go.
[00:31:22] It's, like, not something that you're just like, "Oh, every day I just had it like that," you know? Um, I feel like I always, in a leadership role learn something new about myself, people, and, you know, typically it's by failing. You know? There's, it's through mistakes. It's, "Ooh, okay, well, how do you know to do that?"
[00:31:42] Yeah, 'cause I did it really poorly, like, about three years ago several times. So, you know, I've got you, Talitha.
[00:31:51] Rachel: Well, I think we've probably answered some of the questions from the private ledger, but let's just go through it anyway, 'cause at the top, no one sees your balance sheet of burdens because, you know, that position excludes them from that insight. But here we like to open the private ledger. So let me ask you, what is one cost you've paid for being in leadership?
[00:31:58] Sebastian: [00:32:00] Sure. Closeness
[00:32:19] It creates a lot of space, between you and other people. by nature I'm an extremely direct person and, and, and, you know, like a mess. Like, in my mind there's always like a reality TV camera around, you know what I mean? Like in my real life I like to live out loud in that way. but obviously when you're in leadership roles it's a little bit different.
[00:32:41] And so I do think at times, it prevents, closeness because there really are moments where you cannot be, "Well, this is exactly what happened," you know? and if I wasn't in a leadership role, I would always be the person that's like, "This is exactly what happened."
[00:32:59] Rachel: [00:33:00] You know what? I 100% sympathize with you on that because I wouldn't say I was a messy Bessie before becoming a therapist, but I will say there were a number of times where spirit was sending me the message to clean up my act because I would say some shit about somebody and they'd be right behind me.
[00:33:18] That happened to me, like, four times in my... Like, I mean, I'm counting from, like, junior high, high school, you know. Like, I just should not talk stuff about people, and you know, you grow up and you grow out of some of that too, obviously. Like, gossip is one of the l- least meaningful ways to connect with people even though it's, you know, enticing.
[00:33:39] But becoming a therapist, I was like, "I really have to dial in how, like, become so much more thoughtful about how I share what I share and where and with whom."
[00:33:52] Sebastian: Oh yeah, because it, you know, so much, you can communicate so much through, I have found through leadership by like what you [00:34:00] don't say.
[00:34:00] Rachel: Hmm.
[00:34:01] Sebastian: being very intentional when you do speak. And by nature I'm a yapper. Like, that's my connection oriented with people. I'm like, "Let's talk." And so learning to really sit in the silence of, when I speak and what about, has been just like a fabulous, growing up opportunity for me.
[00:34:19] but yeah, definitely just by my nature puts me a little bit over here, you know?
[00:34:24] Rachel: Yeah. I completely understand. Yeah. That's, it is. It, it's a, it's a cost and it's a benefit in some ways, right? Like, it's nice to be able to play that key on the keyboard. Okay. One invisible asset you didn't realize that you had in the beginning
[00:34:41] Sebastian: Hmm So interesting You know, this this is gonna sound so strange. I think I didn't realize... So I'm, autistic, and when you are, I think, high-functioning and extremely verbal, but on the spectrum, a lot of times you get labeled as being, [00:35:00] like, tough or kind of not warm. and so one thing that I really only discovered through leadership is kind of how warm and sort of soft and grace-oriented I am.
[00:35:13] But it's not something that I ever recognized in myself because all of the feedback was the opposite of that, you know, until... Isn't that interesting? And then I got in that space and I was like, oh, actually my initial instinct when people make mistakes is to be like, " Okay, let's talk about it," and like, "Let's try it again."
[00:35:32] I'm, by nature I'm really not a one-and-done kind of person, but I didn't really discover that until being in leadership roles. 'Cause I think I had boughten into the perception that people were telling me of who I was, which is like, "Oh, he's a little cold and to himself." and so leadership in some ways made me, get to discover my warmer side.
[00:35:53] Rachel: Okay.
[00:35:55] Yeah
[00:35:55] that's cool. What is one investment you're making [00:36:00] now for your wellbeing or your soul? Sounds like you're making a lot, but what would you wanna shout out
[00:36:05] Sebastian: You know, still being an artist.
[00:36:08] Rachel: Hmm. That I kind of thought if I was going to hold the space and be a leader for artists, it had to just be in the business space. that it was best served, like, at a distance. and I think through this journey, I've discovered, like, oh no, being an active artist at the same time is important, like, for my soul, and also keeps me connected to the journey that everyone I'm working with is on.
[00:36:35] Sebastian: so I'm back in class, and I'm excited for the first time in several years I'm choreographing a piece and, uh, putting on a performance. So like all of that stuff has been really full, and I'm excited to be back in that arena
[00:36:48] Rachel: I hope that you're gonna invite me
[00:36:51] to the performance. I would love to see it. I hope I'm in town. That's exciting. Yeah, I love that, and I, I agree. I mean, I... So, uh, [00:37:00] just disclosure for listening, folks, I have been to Culture Shock San Diego. In fact, it was one of the first places I found when I moved here because dance is super important to me, too.
[00:37:10] Yeah, it was probably before your tenure 'cause it was, uh, at the start of the pandemic, or right before it. I was going, uh, in the end of 2019.
[00:37:19] So yeah. And I was a little overwhelmed because everyone there is very good, and most of them are about much younger than me. So, but, but it's a wonderful, wonderful space, and it's a place where I have been more recently because of our mutual friend Angela.
[00:37:36] And, I agree, like, seeing you come into class was always exciting. It was like, "Oh, the director's here. That's fun." Like, he's participating, you know? It's kind of like, "Oh, Dad finally got in the pool. Yay."
[00:37:49] Sebastian: Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, I used to think people would be like, "Ugh," and then they're like, "Oh, no, like, we want you to hang out with us." I'm like, "Oh, cool. Okay."
[00:37:59] Rachel: [00:38:00] Yeah. That's awesome. What a, that, that's a great answer and one I haven't heard on the podcast before. Being an artist, spending time with your art. I love it. Okay, so I have two more questions for you before we wrap. I think you may have actually already said an answer to this, but maybe you'll have a different one.
[00:38:17] Yeah, you already said something like this about wishing leaders would say they don't know, but they'll find out. So I'm gonna challenge you for one more answer of what do you wish more leaders felt permission to say out loud?
[00:38:31] Sebastian: I need help. I need help. that is so important, and I've seen just specifically the last couple months the impact because we all need help.
[00:38:48] Rachel: Mm-hmm
[00:38:49] Sebastian: and if you don't say it, the space doesn't know it's a place where that can be said. Um, so it's so important, to not only do you definitely need [00:39:00] help because no one has all the answers, but, like, showing how you get help and asking that question and saying that out loud, it doesn't just serve you, which it needs to, but also, like, reminds everyone else to just drop the mask and get access to what they need
[00:39:16] Rachel: Oh, I love that. And 100% yes, the space doesn't know it's safe to do that unless you say it. Oh, yeah. I meant to, uh, invite you to this, and I guess I could do it offline, but I'm gonna say it on the podcast. since you're doing so many cool personal growth things, I hope you'll sometime join me for Family Constellations
[00:39:37] Sebastian: Oh, yes. I'm so down. Absolutely
[00:39:40] Rachel: ' Cause that's something I facilitate here in San Diego, but we'll, we can chat more about it after. okay, so before we get to the last question, if people hear this episode and they are inspired to connect with you, for whatever reason, to find out more about either of your two organizations or [00:40:00] just because they wanna tell you how great the show was and how much they admire you, which, you know, we'd love to hear that.
[00:40:07] Like, if you have any negative feedback for the show, you should send it to me because I'm the one who runs the show. But if you have anything wonderful you wanna say to Sebastian, how should people get in contact with you, if anything?
[00:40:19] Sebastian: Yeah, I feel like the easiest way is probably through Instagram. shocker, I'm always on there. and, uh, my IG is @SEBBYadvocate. I'm always on there and it's a good way to, I post about culture shock, but also, um, the legal advocacy work I do is on there, and just me being outside is on there.
[00:40:37] You got a little bit of everything, so
[00:40:39] Rachel: Awesome. Okay, we'll put that in the show notes, how to get in touch with you. I love it. You can really see the generational disparity in how people get in touch. Like, people who are closer to the, like, elder Gen X are, like, LinkedIn, and people who are more in that, like, are you millennial space still?
[00:40:57] Sebastian: Yeah, but I was like, I'm on [00:41:00] the... It was like right
[00:41:01] there. Yes. well, it's like, you know, it's the, it's specifically also in my industry, it's your resume and your business card for dancers. Like, the first thing you do when you go to book someone is go like, okay.
[00:41:15] Rachel: Yeah
[00:41:16] Sebastian: but no, it is, it is interesting that it's generational because for my friends that are, like, in the next generation, I'm like, they only are communicatable through Instagram.
[00:41:24] Like, you could send them a text and they're not getting it, but if you DM them on IG, then you're getting a response. It's really interesting.
[00:41:30] Rachel: How do they not get texts? Okay, we're not gonna get into that. So,
[00:41:34] Sebastian: You're gonna miss that. Yeah, Yeah,
[00:41:36] Rachel: that's a different episode. I will find out more as the next generation gets older if I'm still doing the show and they come on the show. I will be like, "How does that work? How does that work, young whippersnapper?" Um, okay. So last question.
[00:41:54] We're gonna open the time machine. If you could go back in time, what would you say to [00:42:00] yourself earlier in your career?
[00:42:02] Sebastian: Oh, not to rush which I, I know feel, that feels a little antithetical to, like, career success, to, like, be ambitious. But There are lots of times where I miss, not being the person making decisions. I'm good at making decisions. It's not hard for me to do at all, no matter how difficult of a decision it is to make.
[00:42:22] That's just innately a skill that I have. But, when you're rushing, you, like, don't spend as much time being a student, just getting to be creative, learning from other people, and having fun. And I would definitely tell myself to have, like, slow down a bit because, getting here faster didn't change that I still had work that I had to come back and do.
[00:42:43] So take your time, do the work, and enjoy yourself a little more
[00:42:49] Rachel: I love it. That is such good advice, and also advice I haven't heard yet on the show, which is impressive 'cause we're 30 episodes in
[00:42:57] Sebastian: Shout out to that.[00:43:00]
[00:43:00] Rachel: Well, thank you for, thank you for the do-over, and I think this was an even better conversation, so I loved getting to talk about it all with you
[00:43:09] Sebastian: Oh, thank you so much for holding space. I appreciate it
[00:43:12] Rachel: Thanks for listening to Lonely at the Top. If today's conversation resonated, I hope you'll give yourself permission to pause, even for a moment, and check in with what you might be carrying silently. You don't have to hold it all alone.
[00:43:27] I work with high performers and leaders who wanna clean up their secret messes, like people-pleasing and perfectionism and burnout. You can learn more at rachealexandria.com. If you know another leader who needs to hear this show, send it their way because, yeah, it's lonely at the top, but it doesn't have to stay that way
[00:43:47]
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