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Oneself is a raw and reflective podcast about identity, purpose, and transformation. Hosted by Stephen Maher and Adam Bartleman, the show explores how we come to understand who we are—through our experiences, relationships, and the deeper work of self-discovery. In each episode, they share personal stories and honest conversations around topics like mentorship, trauma, masculinity, healing, and growth. Whether you’re navigating your own path or curious about the human experience, Oneself invites you into a space where vulnerability meets wisdom and reflection leads to action.
Stephen Maher (00:01.26)
Welcome back to episode 40 of One Self. My name is Stephen Mar. With me today, with me always is Adam Bartleman. Adam, thanks so much for joining me today, my friend.
Adam (00:14.454)
Hey man, thanks for having me. It's good to be here as always.
Stephen Maher (00:18.178)
Yeah, bro. Folks, if you don't know who we are, we realized this last episode, episode 39 was allow us to reintroduce ourselves. We, if you're a new listener, we appreciate you being here. Just a little bit about who we are. Adam worked for 10 years in construction and emergency services, had an awakening of sorts, 10 years into his career, kind of left it all and, and, you know, searching for truth in that.
Me too, right? Like I followed the societal scripts, you know, I tried to do good in school, went to college, got all the student loans, you know, five years into it, I was like, what's the fucking point of this? You know, and, you know, there's more to life than, than the societal script, right? We both, we both think there's more to life. And now the goal of us both is just elevating the consciousness of humanity. You know, we call ourselves keen observers of life.
And if you're noticing the patterns and behaviors of people around us, and a lot of them don't make sense, right? In terms of trying to better humanity, trying to raise the consciousness of humanity. So that's a little quick intro to us. If you wanna learn more and hear more about our stories, check out episode 39 after episode 40. And we appreciate you guys for being here. And...
My lovely partner, Haley, kind of raised this topic with me before we started recording today. So shout out to Haley for just kind of bringing this topic to my mind. And it's in regards to men, right? In their relationship with women. I experienced this when I was a young boy. I'm sure Adam had a different story, but maybe similar.
experiences and you know men are taught to largely hate women you know femininity women like characteristics you know when you're a little boy you know don't cry don't feel your emotions you know be tough be you know I was all those things y'all I was were imbued into me as a child you know crying showing emotions you know or only girls can do that or what are you a little girl you know as you're a boy and and so what
Stephen Maher (02:41.856)
that conclusion, you know, what those actions do to the behavior of men is I think we just end up resenting the feminine, right? You know, which is not a good thing, y'all. That's what creates angry men and violent men is when they can't, when they don't, when they're not allowed or they're, they don't feel safe enough to be themselves and to express themselves. And
And when it comes to relationships with men and women, it's like, how can you love something in someone else when you're taught to hate it in yourself? And how can you love your partner when you're taught to hate those characteristics that maybe that partner has? I'm talking like heterosexual relationships. know relationships have so many different shapes and forms, but...
Adam (03:14.517)
Yeah.
Stephen Maher (03:32.532)
I'm a straight guy, Adam's straight guy, right? So I'm just talking from my experience, we can only speak from our experience. I'm just talking about my experience in those sorts of relationships. So that's all I can speak on. But maybe it resonates with you regardless of what your relationship status or sexual orientation looks like. So yeah, Adam, that's my opening spiel on this stuff, man. I know we both have a lot of experiences when it comes to men and just like their...
their resentment towards themselves, their ability to need not to feel safe within themselves, whether it's crying or showing emotion or sadness or quote unquote, not being tough. And yeah, man, what do you think of this topic? What do you think is the idea? Have you seen those experiences in your past or even current day? We see it a lot of minutes, not necessarily relegated to the past, but yeah, brother, what do you think?
Adam (04:06.287)
Hmm.
Adam (04:20.662)
Yeah.
Adam (04:25.452)
Yeah, man, I see it everywhere. And like every layer, every layer of society, just, know, even going out in public, if you look closely enough, you can just see random people embodying that kind of energy or not embodying that energy, right? Like you said, trying to push away the feminine aspect, the feminine energy within ourselves and within others, which is...
Of course, the recipes for disaster because that's we all have all of that within us. So if we're, if we're denying half of our energy and we're denying the, the, the, the personhood in many cases, the, the, the, validity of other people's experiences of, half of the world's population. Like, how can that, how can that lead to anything but destruction? You know, it's just, it's insane. And,
the sort of rampant misogyny that exists within our culture. It's crazy, yeah. And as always, recognizing that we're all carrying this, right? Not pointing a finger, but rather recognizing that what is showing up in others is a reflection of ourselves as well. Like not othering anyone, recognizing that this is...
the work for all of us, know, including Stephen and I here talking about it. Because yeah, I mean, that's that's a very common experience. Everybody's got that, you know, from the the from the male perspective. We've all grown up getting that program and whether it was from our parents or from other kids in school, you know, that's like that's one of the most insidious kind of ways that it creeps in is.
is just going to school and getting that programming from other kids. In many cases, as this one physician, Gabor Mate mentions, if parents aren't doing a good enough job raising the kids, the kids at school end up raising your kids. And this toxic kind of stuff just gets passed along. But if we're denying half of our nature, then of course, that's...
Adam (06:40.501)
that's shadow, right? You're denying a part of yourself and just pushing it into the shadows and pretending it's not there and it's trying to come out in a healthy way. Well, and you're not allowing it to, then obviously it's gonna find other ways of coming out in unhealthy ways. And this is where we get abuse of ourselves, abuse of each other, violence in all its forms. So yeah, mean, there are many anecdotal experiences and...
examples but that's you know generally how I've seen it yeah generally how I've seen it expressed is it's everywhere so yeah man that's that's what I'd start with but like what I mean like do you have any examples to relate from your your personal life or like you know your what you've seen
Stephen Maher (07:31.746)
Yeah, bro. Growing up, whether it was from family members or coaches, bro, I don't know what the coaches are on, but my coaches were on something growing up, They were just the toxic sick, working their shit out through children in unhealthy ways. So I don't know what my coaches were on, bro. I had some good coaches, but a lot of them were just like, yeah.
just passing on bullshit to children. but the, so went through a lot, all that, right? Like that program. And when I was a child and like the work I've done in the last couple of years to unlearn and relearn, right. It's when I've
come into balance with my feminine, with my emotions, when I've let myself feel my emotions, cry at movies, cry at stuff, you know, or, you know, whatever, you know, allow, just allow that stuff to feel and have its moment and then let it go and let it, you know, let it pass.
Adam (08:27.115)
Mm.
Stephen Maher (08:37.858)
I felt more masculine than I've ever felt, You know, like, and it's kind of interesting where it's just like, that's a crazy thing that a revelation that I've had where the more in tune I am with my feminine, the more masculine I feel. And who, you know, who would have thought, you know I mean? It's like, you know, the complete opposite message that I was given to, that I was given as a child and as a young man and
Adam (08:40.745)
Yeah.
Adam (08:52.895)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Stephen Maher (09:04.705)
my definition of what masculine is has changed, right? It's so different from what I think the men that I was around when I was younger growing up and what their definition of what it's so far removed from what that is. yeah, I like being strong and capable and tough, so to speak, because I know life is hard. But it's like, don't let that
Adam (09:19.239)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Stephen Maher (09:32.766)
outshine or push away the softness of life as well. Like life is too hard as it is y'all to be fucking miserable all the time and you know to not feel all the depths of the human experience to not allow yourself to just be in the human experience and all the emotions that that comes with you know the highs and the lows right and to feel all of it right and yeah brother I think that was just kind of like
the biggest takeaway recently thinking about this topic was that I've never felt more masculine than I do when I've come into harmony with my feminine.
Adam (10:05.45)
Hmm.
Adam (10:11.934)
Yeah, that's awesome. I'm glad you shared that because that's funny. That was a realization that I had as well. that was something that I have shared. That is something that I have shared with many men and actually started in my old job when I made some changes in my personal life. I went from being like a miserable grumpy, you know, kind of bully person to
being very happy, generally speaking, not all the time, but like much happier in a very short period of time. And that's where the kind of one-on-one work really started as I was like being asked questions by guys and, know, kind of, you know, stepping aside and talking guys through some stuff, like talking guys through divorces and challenges that they were going through, interpersonal conflicts. And this would come up and I would talk about, cause I could see it so clearly. I could see it in myself and I could see it in others.
And I would explain that like exactly, almost exactly as you said it, I would say like, hey, man, you understand that like embracing the feminine energy that exists within you is not going to make you less of a man. It's going to make you more of a man. And that was always kind of like a little quizzical look or maybe a light bulb moment. But as far as like what I've observed in my own experience,
That is completely true. know, like we're taught that we're supposed to be like a hundred percent masculine. And like, that doesn't make any sense. It's like, and I always like the sort of like the tree analogy, like thinking that you're supposed to be like a hundred percent masculine is like being this completely rigid, unbending tree. But then like when that hurricane storm comes through, it's like,
that tree that's completely rigid is going to snap and break. You know, it's like the tree that's able to bend and sway with the wind is the one that's going to survive and, and, know, you know, make it through that, that kind of storm. And that to me is like such a beautifully simple and, you know, really poignant analogy, I guess, you know, considering the, the,
Stephen Maher (12:19.092)
Yeah, dude, no, I love Adam's nature analogies, man. I love, you know, they're so they pay they paint a picture, no, I'm not knocking it. I love them. I love them. Right. You know, like they're great. They're great. You know.
Adam (12:25.116)
That's funny. Yeah, but
Um, yeah, I'm, I think I heard that one somewhere else. I don't, I'm not gonna, I mean, I'm not putting any ownership on anything and you nobody owns any of these, any of these statements, but, uh, there are some good ones floating around out there, but, but, um, but I liked that. I liked that one because you know, it's, it's like, it's again, you know, being, being a keen observer of life, just look around and see that this shit is not working. And like, you don't have to be.
Stephen Maher (12:42.732)
Right.
yeah.
Adam (12:59.248)
We don't have to be profoundly intelligent to observe and just see that this stuff is not working. And that was what I was seeing in my experiences through life, whether it was working at the fire department or working in construction, whatever. Or playing sports growing up, was like, just observe the guys who are walking through life that way, who are bulldozing their way through life, I should say.
trying to do it in that way, of being that way. Do they seem happy? Are their personal lives in order? Do they seem like they're living in an aligned way? Just observe, because that's all you gotta do. It's like, take our word for it. Just go out there and observe and draw your own conclusion and see. I can pretty safely assume here, and we shouldn't make assumptions, but can pretty safely assume in this case, you see those guys who are trying to live in that way.
even if they might seem to have it all together on the surface, just look a little longer, look a little deeper and see, you're gonna see the same thing, doesn't work, because it's just a clear imbalance of energy, right? Like we're living in polarity here, so the best way to move through life in a more aligned way is to be somewhere in the middle. And this doesn't, again, this doesn't mean that you're gonna be less of a man in this, when applied to a.
applied to men here, it doesn't mean you're going to be less of a man. It means you're going to be more because you're becoming a complete being and you're gathering within you the energy, the power to be able to withstand those storms, to be able to bend and sway and still be standing at the end of it. yeah, it just...
It's just like a logical observation as far as I'm concerned. You see that it doesn't work that one way. Try something else. See who's adaptable and who can make it through. Another example that I just add to yours was like, you were talking about coaches. And this is something that I would recommend to look out for, I suppose, is when...
Adam (15:17.143)
is when the coach or whatever, you know, whatever the situation is. But this was, know, in my experience, if the coach starts talking to the to the to the kids in a different way, once it's just one gender. So it's like, say the whole the whole gym class, the coach, the coaches, you know, speaking, speaking to the class, the boys and the girls in one way. then, you know, after school, when it's like boys rugby practice and the coach is like an all male audience and then he starts speaking differently.
treating the boys differently, saying some more misogynistic stuff. Be aware of that. Notice those patterns, whether that's at work. Is the man who's in the leadership position in the room, is he speaking the same way to a diverse crowd as he is when he's to a less diverse crowd?
Cause it's, it's that it's those types of situations in my experience where you can really see, what someone's expression is, is, is truly like their, their, their essential expression because, you know, as I like, as I like to say, you know, as Steven and I have talked about, it's, it's best to, you know, in my experience, it's best to, to live one's one's life in such a way that, we're speaking behind closed doors the same way that we would be speaking out in public.
So, know, meaning speaking to just the guys the same way as we would be speaking to women, you know, the conversations that are being had by straight white men behind closed doors. Those hopefully are conversations that would be the same as if they were being held in front of everybody. Right. Again, when it comes to women, you know, like some of the stuff I used to hear in my experiences through life, like
hearing a man say something and be like, man, would you say that in front of your wife, your mom, your grandma, and your sister? Because if the answer is no, then you shouldn't be saying it to just the guys either, because clearly that's out of alignment.
Stephen Maher (17:29.758)
Yeah, really compromising your integrity and character for the locker room talk. you know, it's I've seen that too. Yeah, I've heard that too. And what's the again, what is usually the point of that they want to see be seen as manly. Right? While you're disparaging. Yeah, while you're disparaging. You know, no man in this life would be here without a woman. Right.
Adam (17:32.729)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well said.
Yeah.
Adam (17:49.091)
Yeah, mail validation.
Adam (17:59.173)
Exactly.
Stephen Maher (17:59.176)
And despite maybe if you even if you had a you maybe your relationship with your mother isn't the best. It's like, know, you're still been given the gift of life through a woman. So, you know, honor that right honor that to to to the best of our ability. And yeah, man. Yeah, it's.
Adam (18:11.044)
Yep.
Adam (18:18.261)
Yeah.
Stephen Maher (18:24.352)
I think men are largely just in pain, brother, in a lot of pain because we don't allow them, we don't allow the little boys to, you know, to feel that, right, to feel that the entire spectrum of the human experience, right, we cut off like...
Adam (18:35.3)
Yep.
Stephen Maher (18:42.112)
you 30 % of emotions, right? know, maybe that, you know, that number could, you know, maybe 30%. I don't know. We don't have to get into the numbers of it, but you know what I'm saying, right? We cut off a large, a good amount, a good amount of human emotions. say to young boys, you're not allowed to do that. You're not allowed to feel that.
Adam (18:49.997)
Yeah, a good amount.
Stephen Maher (19:01.376)
And that's not to say that's not changing. Like I know, you know, like we've said this before in the past where it's like, know, millennial dads are spending more time than any other previous generation of kids, right? Or, you know, of parents, right? Spending more time with their kids than any other previous. So it's, it is changing slowly, right? You know, but I think there's still, there's still work to be done as well. And, you know, for, for men,
Adam (19:12.537)
Mm.
Adam (19:18.309)
Hmm.
Stephen Maher (19:29.566)
especially when it comes to, you know, the young the young boys, just like the lasting effects that has on on your psyche is is crazy because it's like you don't want to be or you know, this is another thing growing up where it's like to be perceived as weak or a coward is
is like, you know, like the end of the reputation of that little boy, right? Or, you know, if you cry or, you know, if you cry or, know, yeah, you're feeling your emotions or you're just not subscribing to the script of what, you know, a man is supposed to be. And it's like all of but that completely discounts the talent, skills, characteristics of what that person might have, man. And, you know,
Adam (19:59.619)
Yeah.
Adam (20:05.026)
Yeah.
Adam (20:21.012)
Yep.
Stephen Maher (20:24.254)
your example, right, brother? I don't want to, you know, put you on the spot, but it's like, you know, what, you know, from, you know, the two the two life paths, right, that we see, and you know, your life's not over, brother, like, you could still, you know, align this on your path, but embracing your creativity, you know, embracing your, you know, your creative side, right, you know, and, you know, with your, my brother, too, bro, like, I saw this as well, where, you know, my brother had a creative side and
Adam (20:40.702)
yeah, yeah.
Stephen Maher (20:53.57)
you know, and artistic side and he wrote great comics when we were kids. Like he like he was great comics. I would read his comics, you know, and he was just writing like these little comic panels. And but you know, was did he I can't speak for him. But like, did he internalize this as well? Where it's like, you know, I can't be an artist, I, you know, I have to be doing something more masculine. And he let that go. Right. When I know it brought him joy and he was good at it, you know, and
Adam (21:03.406)
Hmm.
Adam (21:16.26)
Yeah.
Adam (21:21.966)
Yeah.
Stephen Maher (21:23.17)
So that's sad, that's sad. And the people I admire a lot was like someone who had the fortitude from a young age to kind of just like resist the societal script and do what they want regardless. some, you know, famous musicians in the past of mine were, you know, heroes of mine where it's like regardless of what anybody was saying or anyone was doing, they walk to the beat of their own drum. And that's just really cool.
Adam (21:36.792)
Hmm.
Adam (21:40.568)
Yeah.
Adam (21:49.656)
Hmm.
Stephen Maher (21:52.37)
That's just really cool when someone has the ability to do that from a young age. That's just incredible. As I'm again, three decades onto this planet and I'm unlearning and relearning and forming these conclusions, it's like I really admire the people that were able to do that since they were a child. Just kind of say, I don't agree with any of this and I'm just going to do my thing. That's really beautiful as well.
Adam (22:13.611)
Yeah, that's like the real courage and like how, you know, even from that traditionally patriarchal toxic masculine perspective, it's like, isn't that the most ballsy thing? know, but like, yeah, but like, man, did it ever not express that way? and I'm, know, just put, use my own example, like, yeah, I remember a friend in elementary school who cried a lot, you know, every time he got like the slightest bit hurt.
Stephen Maher (22:25.576)
Yeah, that's courage, man. That's courage to me.
Adam (22:44.002)
And we were hard on him. I was hard on him. I remember like I talking to a friend like decades later who worked in a neighboring department. And it was like, oh yeah, I remember that guy. like, we're talking about this guy like 20 years later. And it's like, oh yeah, wasn't he a little punk kind of thing? wasn't like, and like this guy was relating the same. This was like a really nice guy too. And he was like, oh yeah, I remember him. He was so weak. And it was like,
man, we were so hard on each other. We're talking about elementary school and we're talking about children and we're talking about it like 20 as adult men, we're still like disgusted by it. And it was just like, man, that's just so crazy. Cause again, yeah, like I, and I saw it in myself. Like I had friends that like, you know, who were coming into the fire department who I didn't think were like tough enough to cut it. And I'd be hard on them. And you know, it's just like,
Stephen Maher (23:17.482)
child yeah
Adam (23:42.346)
Not that long ago, you know, and I realized now like some of them were actually doing a better job of it than I was because they were softer and they were probably more adaptable than I was because of that. And I'm like, man, I'm glad, know, I hope they didn't listen to me back then. I gave some bad advice and you know, cause I just, see it so much more clearly now where it's like, man, if yet.
Stephen Maher (23:52.94)
Yeah.
Stephen Maher (24:03.232)
Yeah.
Adam (24:09.663)
Again, like you're saying, embracing that artist side as I related before in past episodes, I'm like, think if I wasn't so afraid, I would never have gone into that job, like into those jobs. I would have like embraced my artistry from a younger age because I really liked to draw. And interestingly enough, like my dad was an artist, but he, but somehow I got this like energy even from him that like that wasn't okay. Like it was like, there was like a self-hating kind of energy there, right? Like this.
that I picked up on and not to put the blame on anyone else, but just like that was the choice that I made was like, yeah, this is like maybe not okay, maybe I should do something else, maybe. And then I landed on those different jobs. yeah, later come to be of the opinion that like the people that do walk to the beat of their own drum, no matter what that is, are like.
Totally my heroes. I'm like that's that's what it really takes to like have the guts to see through the illusion Pull back that veil early on in life and just like not engage in this like matrix bullshit and like, know, and I and I see it, know, I saw it when I I Saw it more when I like quit drinking alcohol The reactions from men were like what like, know, it's like that's that's like this supposed to be this masculine thing not to mention that it's like
that it's like, you know, kills your testosterone and is toxic to your whole body. they're like, like, they're like going, like going, like eating a vegan diet, which I've been doing for, I don't know, 13 or 14 years now. And it's like, those are, those are some experiences where I'm like, I can see that this works better for me. and, you know, I'm getting some, getting some flack for it, but, but it's worth it. Yeah, cause like, man, the...
Stephen Maher (25:42.408)
Yeah.
Adam (26:04.706)
It takes so much, so much more, it really takes guts to go against the grain in this world because it is such a conformist culture. And there's just so many layers to seeing through it within ourselves because I thought I was a pretty open and aware guy five, eight years ago, but I was still embodying so much toxicity. was still, basically the topic of this episode. I was still...
you know, really focusing on that hypermask and stuff. I was still really suppressing the feminine within myself and within the people around me, you know, like basically expecting myself and my friends to like toughen up and get through these, whatever situation it was by just, yeah, just muscling, bulldozing through it. And...
Yeah, it's an ongoing journey to keep uncovering those layers and seeing how that just doesn't work. Doesn't work at all.
Stephen Maher (27:06.922)
Right? No, man, no. And again, life is hard, right? Like a lot of life, there's a lot of pain and suffering in life. And I think there's in trying to prepare the younger generations to be capable, right? And to be aware of this and to have strength, right? To have strength. I agree with it, right?
Adam (27:28.02)
and
Stephen Maher (27:35.146)
And I had, you know, I've spoken mentors in the past. It's, and you know, there's a way to teach strength and toughness with care and with the gentleness, right. And with encouragement, it's like, you don't have to just like abuse children for them to be tough. You know, like you can do so, you know, my best teachers were
Adam (27:42.836)
Mm-hmm.
Adam (27:50.538)
Yeah.
Stephen Maher (27:55.458)
When it comes to toughness, they were gentle. They're like, you can do it. It's gonna be hard. They're not like trying to lie to you. They're honest with the amount of effort that it will take, but it's like they also make you feel capable and strong, right? And strong within your body, within your mind where it's like, it's gonna be hard. You can do it. Just take it one step at a time and I'm gonna be here, right? If you need me. And...
Adam (28:05.663)
and
Adam (28:21.14)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Stephen Maher (28:23.638)
You know, those are the memories I look upon where it was incredible, right? Like I got so much from those lessons. Those lessons are so vivid in my mind and I was so much more strong and capable than I ever thought I was, right? And I wasn't being abused to be strong, you know, and
Adam (28:37.776)
and
Adam (28:43.065)
Yeah.
Stephen Maher (28:46.196)
And so, yeah, man, in addition to marching to the beat of your own drum, there's a way that we can teach strength and teach courage and all these things that we're talking about, not just in young boys, young girls, children, Everyone. Because it doesn't have to come with these harsh lessons. You can still teach.
these beautiful characteristics of humanity, acknowledging that life is hard and there's a lot of hard things that come along with with coming with being in a human body. But yeah, but I just want to make that point as well, when it comes to strength.
Adam (29:29.705)
Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. think it's like it's teaching it's teaching people how to be adaptable and and
and truly be resilient, which doesn't come through like that. Yeah, that sort of like archetypal, like angry father, like I'm going to toughen you up because the world's tough and I'm, you know, do everything exactly as I say, but which is really just a projection of their own trauma and how things worked out for them. When you you got to realize, like you have to teach the true strength with true strength, which is like vulnerability, like the the the.
and know that it's okay to fail because we've got like, that's how we learn again, this performance based self-esteem that is so, that is so deeply embedded in like this toxic masculine mindset is like failure of any kind is unacceptable. So it's like, nobody wants to be vulnerable enough to try and, you know, fail and build that resilience again, like that little, that little tree, that little sapling, it grows strong by being
blown on by the wind. That's how it builds its cellulose fibers in order to become strong. It needs to go through that stress and that's okay. It's okay to go through these things. It's like the overbearing parents that are not allowing their kid to get into any sort of risky situation. It's like, within reason, it's like that's not always healthy. I had a buddy,
who started my old job and was like, I was trying to give him all the advice in the world and like how to navigate the culture and like the, and the just, just the workplace. And, and I didn't realize I was like, I was stifling that person. You know, was like, man, he has to come here and go through his own journey of what it's like to be a new guy on this job and like, and figure it out. He can't just like have this kind of bubble wrapped experience because like,
Adam (31:32.391)
I've been here a bit longer and I'm his friend. But that's what I was doing. It was very narcissistic. I thought I was helping this person, but really I was just projecting my own stuff of the stuff that I didn't like happened to me. So I was trying to protect him, thought it was from this loving place, and really it was narcissistic. You got to let people go through their stuff. We have to be vulnerable enough to... Vulnerable enough ourselves in order to...
be an example to others to try that, to risk being vulnerable in order to. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like, yeah, like I said, the overbearing parent. It's like that helicopter parent that actually ends up creating all sorts of mental health problems in a child when a parent is trying so hard to protect and bubble wrap the world from their kid bumping into a pointy corner kind of thing.
Stephen Maher (32:05.184)
Yeah, and be there for them if they need help too.
Adam (32:31.194)
That's not what we're here to do. We're not here to have this perfectly safe experience like this. We're in bodies where we are incarnated in these individuated forms in physicality and it's inherently unsafe. And that's okay. At the same time, recognizing that it's completely safe paradoxically, because we can't fail again. When we recognize when we, when we withdraw our
full attention from this individuated form, this sort of illusion of separation and kind of step back into the observer of our situation from a greater perspective and understand like, you can't fail because we've got infinite tries of this. We have always been and always will be. It really turns down the volume on the whole thing. like,
just dismantles the illusion of fear. And we recognize like, it's okay. It's okay to make mistakes. It's okay to not be tough in one instance, you know, bringing it back to the sort of you know, toxic masculinity conversation. It's like, how do you learn to be tough? You learn to be tough by having experiences where you weren't that tough and you feel what that was like, you know, it's like, I've been, I'm strong because I've been weak. I'm courageous because I've been fearful.
You know, these, these things, have to go through the full experience because that's the whole point of it here was we're not just here to, we're not here to survive this one incarnation is like in as much comfort and hoarding as many resources as we possibly can. We're here to have the full experience, the totality of the experience of being a human being. And, and, you know, so it's like, you know, again, bringing it back to like, if, if we're, you know, man out here, anyone who's denying.
half of their experience by suppressing the feminine, women as well, being taught to hate these certain energies within themselves, then we're missing the point and understanding that it is everyone. just to highlight that a little bit, guess is like, men are not only learning the despisal of the feminine energy,
Adam (34:51.965)
and the suppression of that from other men, like the programming has come through all of us. Like some of the most toxic masculine stuff I've ever learned was from women, like in the family, it's like they're carrying on that programming and doing it unconsciously. And I've seen it in myself, I've seen it in others. It's a responsibility that we all hold, right? To be like holding the healthy masculine as well as a healthy feminine.
Stephen Maher (35:21.162)
Yeah.
Adam (35:22.066)
Yeah.
Stephen Maher (35:23.968)
Yeah, well, know, yeah, fathers to daughters, right? Like, it's not just, yeah, it's not just mental young, young, young boys. Yeah, it's just all of us. We're all responsible for these warped, out of balance behaviors that we're that we're pressing on to the next generations. And so I really appreciate that you made that point. We're all completely responsible for.
Adam (35:29.519)
Exactly. Yep.
Stephen Maher (35:48.534)
it going everywhere, like impressing upon everyone, you know, so I really, I really appreciate that you made that point,
Adam (35:50.141)
Yeah.
Adam (35:56.526)
Yeah, if we're just always othering some, you know, if we're always in the experience of an expression of othering people, then we're not getting anywhere. It's like, well, it's their fault. You know, it's like this battle of the sexes nonsense. It's like, yes, OK, of course, we're not we're not bypassing the fact that we live in a patriarchy and men are generally physically larger and more powerful. You know, again, generally speaking, we're not. You know, like.
discrediting the idea that men are hold most of the power in this world as absolutely that's observably true. But we're also at the same time recognizing that it is everyone's responsibility. It's like, you know, yeah, men have a lot of work to do. But women have a lot of work to do, too. Again, I've some of the some toxic stuff was was passed on to me by women in my family and or around me. You know, I've observed it many times. One thing one thing just to just to throw in a little
A little anecdote, this is something I've observed throughout my life multiple times is like the sort of gender roles and the double standards. It's like when a little girl is being kind of flirtatious with boys, it's like, that's not okay. But then when a little boy is kind of like that, like talking toddlers here sometimes, I've seen parents be like, oh yeah, he's just a little ladies man. And...
And then as they get older, celebrate like, Oh yeah, you know, my, my, my son, you know, teenager, whatever early twenties, like really gets around. And I've seen, I've seen this like where women are kind of proud of that. But then at the same time, it's like, okay, so what does that mean? Potentially that's a situation where this, you know, this guy is, is not treating women very well, or, know, um, you know, uh, commonly accompanying the, the, uh, promiscuous kind of behavior. Um, and.
It isn't okay for in our society for women to be behaving that way, but it is okay for men to be behaving that way. what women could be complaining about it in one breath and the next celebrating that expression in their son or family member or whatever. It's like, that's just like this massive contradiction that I've seen multiple times in my life. And that's just one example where it's like, yeah, this isn't adding up. If we want to...
Stephen Maher (38:14.817)
Yeah.
Adam (38:19.195)
If we want to see change, we need to be really consistent. another one example is if women are being objectifying, like if women are saying something objectifying. It's happened to me where I've experienced something like that and I had to respond to this person like, hey, if we want to make change in this world, then objectification has to stop every expression of it.
You know, and so like, please, you know, be the change that you want to see in the world. Because if not, then we're just continuing that stuff. Yeah, it's an important awareness to hold, in my opinion.
Stephen Maher (39:04.544)
No, absolutely. Absolutely. And then I think to that, you know, when it comes to you spoke of like the oppression, right, like the, you know, patriarchy and all that stuff, right. And a lot of men, you know, tense up when they hear something like that, where it's like, you know, we got the highest suicide rates, it's, like, you know, all that stuff. It's like, I'm, you know, I'm not saying that like,
Adam (39:24.622)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm, yeah.
Stephen Maher (39:31.882)
Yeah, bro, like men suffer within the system that we built. You know, and and so acknowledge that like it's like it's, you know, but it's not like you're you're powerless. You know, like we have a part, we have the ability to change the system as well. You know, because yes, we are suffering within the system. You know, Adam, you know, shared a video with me earlier and, you know, a quote that stuck up was
Adam (39:34.925)
Yeah, yeah.
Adam (39:38.894)
Yeah.
Adam (39:47.833)
Yeah.
Stephen Maher (39:57.248)
that stuck out was like we've used people up for generations and thrown them out. And that includes men and women, you know, men throwing men into fucking wars for however long we've been around, you know, for all of human history, you know, when old rich or elite men throw young poor men into these fucking wars where they die or get mangled or, know, whatever the case is. And
Adam (40:02.059)
Yeah.
Stephen Maher (40:21.89)
Yeah, bro, we were doing that to you know, like men are doing that to other men, you know, and and so I don't I don't want that. You know what mean? Like I don't want other men to suffer within the system that has been created by men. And so it's like.
Adam (40:24.673)
Yeah. Yeah.
Stephen Maher (40:38.978)
And what's the issue with a lot of those oppressors too, y'all? And I think it comes back to this whole entire topic where it's like lot of these oppressors are denying their nature. When we see the Epstein files, when we see, you know, the Republican convention crashing grinder, which is the, you know, the, you know, the LGBT app, right, for hooking up. It's like Tinder or Bumble for, you know, the queer community. It's like they can't, they're not allowing themselves.
Adam (40:48.44)
Yeah.
Adam (40:58.029)
Yeah.
Adam (41:05.225)
Mm.
Stephen Maher (41:08.32)
or they're afraid to be the true expressions of themselves. If they have that sexuality that is a little more nuanced, it's not just like straighter, know, it's not fully straight and they feel the shame and so they express it in the shadows. And we're doing that. You know what I mean? We're creating that. We're creating that system where these men, they feel this internalized shame and then they go and pass a bill that takes away the rights of other people.
Adam (41:11.395)
Yeah.
Adam (41:18.211)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Maher (41:36.226)
you or they go after immigrants or they go after all this fear based bullshit, you know, trying to get people afraid. It's like the oppressors are the ones that are so out of balance with this shit, you know, and yeah, brother, yeah, I'm getting I'm getting riled up, you know, so I just I want you to take on that as well. Because that's something I've noticed.
Adam (41:36.301)
Yeah.
Adam (41:47.208)
Yeah.
Adam (41:54.849)
Yeah, well, it's all good. It's just it's very simple. It's very, very, very simple. It's just shadow, right? Like you're you're not expressing an energy and you're pushing it down and then it has to come up somewhere. It's like the arcade game whack-a-mole. You you try and push it down. It's just popping up somewhere else. That's it's it's like it's just it's so observably true. And when when these guys are out there.
Stephen Maher (42:02.965)
Yeah.
Stephen Maher (42:17.772)
Bro, you're on fire with the analogies today. just wanna...
Adam (42:20.825)
They're, yeah, they're just, they're not handling it. And it's like, one thing I wanted to mention was like, I know we're kind of speaking sometimes in terms of like, yeah, this is a man thing or whatever, but like, really, I want to get away from like the divergence thinking, right? Because you mentioned like, men will get their backs up when they hear a conversation like this, like, yeah, like,
Men have it hard too, like men have the highest suicide rate and all that stuff. It's like, yes, we're again, get like extricating ourselves from this like battle of the sexes thinking. We're not like blaming men, we're not blaming women. Of course it's easy and popular to blame men and it is important to take accountability of course. I'm not saying it's not men's fault, but it's as I was saying before with like the toxic masculine stuff also gets passed on by women. It's like it's everyone's fault.
the problems that women are experiencing are men's fault and vice versa. We're just like stop seeing ourselves as like two separate groups and understand that we're all one. Like we can just, just for simplicity sake, for one little baby step is just be like, yeah, we're all human beings. We're all in this together. You came out, like for men that are getting their backs up about that, like you came out of this planet because yeah, we're one self, thank you. We're a...
Stephen Maher (43:38.784)
oneself.
Adam (43:44.472)
Well, you came onto this planet through a woman, like, it doesn't make sense to be despising women. when we're understanding that, like, yes, men have a high suicide rate and all that stuff, it's like, no one's being blamed, right? Like, understand we're so used to this way of thinking because of our programming and this...
performance-based kind of self-esteem, right? Like, what can I do for you? That's like, that's how I show my value. If we feel like we're not doing something right, we can feel like we're being blamed and someone's, and then we get defensive and say, well, but yeah, men have it hard too. And it's like, yes, that is absolutely being acknowledged. But just staying in that camp of like, I'm a man and I'm having it hard and I'm, and I'm.
I'm gonna focus on this and not the entire picture is like, is missing the point. It's the same thing as denying that feminine aspect within yourself because again, we're all one here. We're all in the same boat. Like if we keep going back and forth in this pendulum swing of just trying to blame each other and and perceiving anything that is being discussed as, you know, anything that is out of alignment that's being discussed as being an attack on ourselves and getting defensive.
then we just continue that pendulum swing. We just stay in this kind of mess. So it's like, again, like not taking it personally. If we're talking about like some men's issues just for the sake of simplicity of like breaking it up that way, reminding us, reminding ourselves, reminding everyone that we're always talking about the issue as a whole, right? Like, you know, Steven and I, can sit here and share our perspectives and
we can share, like what we can, the experiences that we can share best are our own because we have had them and we happen to be walking through, walking on this planet in this incarnation as men. So it's like, that's what we're going to share for those, for those anecdotes and our, our, our specific perspectives, but ultimately understanding that, that we're trying to see ourselves all as one, as oneself, because yeah, if we don't, then that just, that,
Adam (46:02.155)
that victim blaming, taking things personally, just keeps going, keeps that pendulum swinging and we keep missing the landing in the center, which is the only place that we're gonna find those solutions when we keep going to either ends of the polarity. So yeah, man, I think I always feel like that's an important way to look at things.
Stephen Maher (46:29.482)
Agreed. Folks, if you like what you heard on episode 40 of One Self, please do all the things that are free that support us like comment, share, engage with us, subscribe. We really appreciate all that that really helps us out. And Adam, any closing thoughts for episode 40 of One Self?
Adam (46:51.23)
Just man, yeah, just always bringing it back to a greater idea, a more expansive definition of self. Again, like the title of show, One Self, realizing that we're all one. If you find yourself getting in that tribal thinking or any sort of bipartisan kind of thinking, it's like zoom out, remember we're all one. That's the only way we come to the solutions that we need is looking from that perspective.
Stephen Maher (47:23.052)
Thanks Adam. Folks, we'll catch you next week. We hope you have a good one in the meantime. See you then.
Adam (47:29.974)
Peace.