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Real faith. Real life. Hosted by Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown of Sandals Church, The Debrief Podcast goes beyond Sunday conversations—diving into the questions, stories, and struggles that shape who we are. Thoughtful. Honest. Unfiltered.
You're listening to a minisode of the Debrief Podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. We've taken your most thought provoking questions from our most popular episodes to bring you the answers you're looking for. Let's get right into it.
Matt Brown:Kara, 18, we're going way young. What are some key things someone should or shouldn't do in dating? Well, Kara, at 18, there's a lot more shouldn'ts than shoulds. So, you know
Vivi Bezansky:Got them.
Matt Brown:You know, Derek Emei said this years ago, were you at Sandals when we had Derek here? No. Yeah. So Derek was a great teacher for us. He's serving overseas, doing great things.
Matt Brown:But just a really, really wise guy. And I remember when he said this, most people approach dating and they ask this question, how close to sin can I get without sinning? Rather than saying, how close can I get to God without losing my connection with Him? So that he said, actually, he reversed the approach. I love that.
Matt Brown:You know, Kara, here's what I would say is the same this is what I wish someone had said to me. The same self control, Matt, you need in dating is the same self control you need in marriage. And and and a lot of young people don't think that because you just think, oh, we're gonna be having all the sex that we want, we're never going to have wandering eyes, we're never going to be off physically or whatever. You need self control on both sides. And so here's the thing, if you develop patterns of not being able to control yourself in dating, those are the people that I see oftentimes that struggle controlling themselves in marriage.
Matt Brown:And so, you know, and so what does that mean for me in marriage? So I've been married almost thirty one years now. So if I find myself attractive to a female or I find myself enjoying a conversation a little too much, I literally just leave.
Vivi Bezansky:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:I just go the other way. I I yeah. I mean, the Bible says sexual sin is the only sin that we're supposed to flee, and I think the thing for me, Kara, is the reason that I've never failed Tammy sexually is because I've always believed I could, And a lot of my pastor friends that have failed, they just it was a blind spot for them. They thought, oh, that would never happen, and then it did. And so I just kind of assumed, okay, it could happen.
Matt Brown:So what I would say is, Kara, it's okay to long for companionship, friendship, and even sexual intimacy. God has designed you for that, but he wants it in the context of marriage, and so you really need to It's really difficult to think when you're attracted, and so you need to reprioritize kind of your vision for dating. And I would say with all sexual issues, we can go with our desires or our values. And so as a Christian, you have to decide what are my values. And by the way, this includes those of us that are same sex attracted.
Matt Brown:Am I gonna limit my values? So here's what the Bible says, here's what the Bible teaches. You and I were discussing before the show started, I was listening to a gay priest talk about there's only seven verses in the Bible that say homosexuality is bad, and I said, how many do you need? And by the way, not to pick on anybody, but none of them are positive. They're all don't do this.
Matt Brown:Are you going to live out your biblical values, or are you going to live out your vision for your sexual desires and attractions? Yet you have to choose. And so, Kara, I would say that is find someone, and I say this to young people all the time. I was meeting with this guy's a junior in high school this year, he wants to be a minister, and he was sitting there with his girlfriend. He said, what's one thing we can do?
Matt Brown:Said, don't have sex with each other.
Vivi Bezansky:Yeah.
Matt Brown:I was like, that that will derail, you know, your calling. Sensuality and spirituality always go in the opposite direction. They just do. So what is sensuality? Eating too much, looking at too much, delving into too much.
Matt Brown:So sensuality, right, is to me an over appreciation of the senses in life. Spirituality is filtering all of those desires through my faith and saying, okay, my faith determines this first. So what would you say to Cara? She's 18. What shouldn't or shouldn't she do in dating?
Vivi Bezansky:Dating community.
Matt Brown:Yeah. Okay.
Vivi Bezansky:I and let me paint that picture out a little bit. I think I see a lot of people go on a few dates with somebody and then decide to tell their friends about it, tell people, wise counsel mentors in their life about it. And that's usually like, by then, they've already done x, y, and z, and it's usually a recipe for disaster.
Matt Brown:Yeah.
Vivi Bezansky:So I think, like, from the get go, bringing your community into it, hey. I'm interested in somebody. Would you pray for me? And this is more of if you're wanting to have a godly relationship, pursue it in a godly way. Yeah.
Vivi Bezansky:Like, a godly relationship doesn't just all of a sudden, we both go to church and boom. You know? It's where where is the fruit of godliness even from from the get go? But dating in community, I think, is a huge, huge thing, especially if you're 18. I'm like, you don't know what dating in adulthood is either.
Vivi Bezansky:There's so much more freedom that comes with adulthood than, let's say, you're in high school. So inviting people in that have been where you haven't been, I think, is so huge. So that I think the other thing, I think about just emotional boundaries. So this is on the shouldn't do in dating. I I think I see more than physical boundaries.
Vivi Bezansky:A lot of young people set themselves up for failure because they don't have emotional boundaries.
Matt Brown:Mhmm.
Vivi Bezansky:And that's the, oh, I have, like, three guy best friends, and it but I'm his, like, place where he vents to. That is, like, so robbing yourself for healthy intimacy, and you don't even realize it. So I think, like, that's a huge thing. And the reason why I say it's a shouldn't is because you might be waiting for something to work in a romantic relationship, and you're wondering why it's not working, and maybe it's because you found fulfillment in a non romantic relationship that's fulfilling you with romantic things.
Matt Brown:You know? That's so good.
Vivi Bezansky:So I I think that's a huge thing, especially in that in the era of access, technology, FaceTime. Like, we can talk to each other so much that even when I was growing up in high school that there's so many more freedoms. So I think those are those are huge things.
Matt Brown:Yeah. That's a good, good word, things. Yeah. And I would just say go slow and be careful. There was a series that I did in 2020, we never finished it, called non negotiables.
Matt Brown:I would go back and walk through that and really determine your values before you find yourself attracted. Because if if we know what our values are first, that can help the trajectory of our attraction. So, like, you know, like, for example, if you've determined in your heart that if someone's married they're off limits, it doesn't matter how amazing they are, it doesn't matter how attractive they are, it doesn't matter how much into you they are, they are off limits and they don't exist as a category. See what I'm saying? So that's just a healthy way.
Matt Brown:You just say, well, I'm not interested in that. And so the same thing for you as a young person. Okay, so what are my non negotiables? Do they love Jesus? But I would say even more than that.
Matt Brown:Do they have a vibrant, growing relationship with Jesus? Okay, what is the evidence of that? Do they serve? Do they give financially? Even as a young person.
Matt Brown:I mean, I mean, one of the first isn't this bizarre? One of the first convictions I had before I followed Jesus was I gave financially to Jesus.
Vivi Bezansky:That's
Matt Brown:cool. I thought that was weird.
Vivi Bezansky:That's very unique.
Matt Brown:Yeah. I was like, I felt convicted. I remember going to church, man. I'd I'd be hungover and stinking. Uh-huh.
Matt Brown:And I was like, I should give. I should give to the Lord. Like, that was a conviction that I had, which I I know that's not normal, but I remember, you know, I I remember, you know, it anyways Yeah. In high school people thinking that was weird, but it was just something I was like, no. No.
Matt Brown:No. At that age, Kara, I had an acknowledgment that that things that were mine weren't mine. So that's evidence of maturity. Even though you would not have looked at me and said, There's a mature young man, it was evidence of maturity. And so Sundays are not mine, they're the Lord's.
Matt Brown:The tithe is not mine, it's the Lord's. My gifts are not mine, they're the Lord's. You know, I mean, what I do with my life, and you know, I need to follow him and trust him. And I would look for a young man who knows Jesus, and not just a good person. Have you seen the new Michael Jackson movie that There came was a scene in the movie that really, really broke my heart because I think there was a part of Michael that was a wonderful human being, and specifically when he got burned.
Matt Brown:And that was my reality, like, this wasn't a history lesson for me. I remember when he signed the contract with Pepsi and he got burned. I didn't realize it was as bad as it was, but he donated the million dollars that he sued Pepsi for back to all the kids. So there was a part of Michael Jackson that was beautiful, and so here's the thing as young people, we tend to fall in love with just the beautiful image of people. There was some really weird crap about Michael.
Matt Brown:The monkeys, the snakes, like, you know, oh, he loves animals, those are his friends. What does that mean? He doesn't have friends. It means he doesn't know how to relate to his peers. So, you know, and then the other thing I would say for Michael Jackson is he didn't have a personal relation with Jesus.
Matt Brown:So as wonderful as he was, what I can say at the end is young people when you're dating, the best hope you have for someone turning out good is if they have a deep, vibrant relationship with Jesus, because that is the person who helped change me and transform me into the man that I am today. You know, Tammy's nagging, correcting, crying, pointing out. You know, if I have a hard heart, I'm not going to receive those things, and I'm just gonna receive it as like a lot of men do. She's crazy or she's whatever, but because of the Holy Spirit in my life who's called me to love her and serve her as Christ loved the church, go, okay, she has a point of view, she has a perspective, even though I disagree passionately and see this a different way, and through that I was able to change. And here's the thing to longevity in relationships, I think we use this language in our culture that's so broken, oh, they complete each other or they complement each other.
Matt Brown:I think true maturity and long lasting relationships is loving and appreciating each other despite our differences. Yeah. Like And choosing. Yeah. And choosing.
Matt Brown:And I don't need to make Tammy into my image. God made her into his image, and she's very different than me. And like, we don't don't like the same movies at all. Like, I mean, here's why I like flying to Europe because that means I'm gonna watch three or four things that I wanna watch. She doesn't like sports.
Matt Brown:And then she will, you know, she's come around a little bit because her kids will watch now, but that doesn't mean that we're not compatible. We love each other, we have to work hard to find shows that we both like, that we're both into, and we prioritize that. But we don't try to say, oh, we're not compatible. You know, I love to serve, she's afraid of water. Like, you know, so those things, you know, but I just think that we need to say, I've got to embrace the uniqueness of my spouse, and that comes back to Cara from me believing that God created Tammy in his image, and even though she's different from me, those qualities are beautiful.
Matt Brown:And here's what I've learned, here's what's crazy, you've been married six months, so I've been married almost thirty one years, even her flaws, which every person is flawed, were for my benefit. Like, as I look back at her fears and her flaws, I'm so grateful that she had those because had she been perfect in every way, I would have remained flawed in every way. And so her fears, her insecurities challenged me and forced me to grow, be a better husband, be a better father, be a better person, even though the initiator of that growth was what I would say is her her flaws and her faults, which we all have. And so and now, you know, I appreciate all of who she is, even though, you know, there are things about myself I don't like. And so I would just say that really, really look, and that's hard when you're 18 because attraction is so powerful.
Matt Brown:And you know, you gotta learn to overcome that with your values. You wanna say anything as we close?
Vivi Bezansky:Yeah. I I think a couple practical things too. You know, there's that phrase, every day is an interview. Similarly and and not to say every day you should be looking out. Your spouse might be out there because that's where your head's at then.
Vivi Bezansky:But saying, as you're describing someone that has a deep, vibrant relationship with Jesus, it will flow in there every day, you know, on what they're posting. Like, I think this is a conversation I have with a lot of young adults. Oh, I wanna find a godly man, da da da da, then I'm seeing what they're posting on the Internet, and it's like, girl, the type of man that you want, he's not gonna be attracted to you. Like, that and that's a good, like, look in the mirror. Yeah.
Vivi Bezansky:Those things aren't compartmentalized. The what the things that you want to find in a spouse or who you are in the deep, vibrant relationship with Jesus, those aren't things that you can compartmentalize. It is who you are, how you live, what you're posting, how you're talking, how you see them interact with your friends, all of the above. So I think those are I I I don't know. Those are really big things that when you think about, I want someone that has a deep relationship with God, observe their every day, not just when they're at church or when they worship or whatever, but do they live a life of worship?
Vivi Bezansky:You know?
Celeste Contreras:Thank you for listening. We hope this conversation helped you grow in your faith. If you've enjoyed today's episode, make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe on YouTube so you don't miss what's next. You can also stay connected by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok for behind the scenes clips, highlights, and more ways to engage with the community. We'll see you next time right here on the Debrief Podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown.