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Change! with Curtis Bateman
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[00:00:00] Announcer: This is the build a vibrant culture podcast, your source for the strategies, systems, and insights you need to turn your dreams into your destiny. Every week we dive into dynamic conversations as our host, Nicole Greer interviews, leadership, and business experts. They're here to shed light on practical solutions to the challenges of personal and professional development.
[00:00:21] Now here's your host, a professional speaker, coach, and consultant, Nicole Greer.
[00:00:29] Nicole: Welcome everybody to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer and they call me the Vibrant Coach and I am here to help you build a vibrant culture. And I brought a guest along for the journey and his name is Curtis Bateman. Let me tell you all about Curtis. Other than the fact that he's been bouncing from London to Bali to Phoenix to back home when he has time, Curtis Bateman is writing best selling books, just like this one right here that he sent me in the mail.
[00:00:56] Look what I got everybody in the mail. I got Change: How to Turn Uncertainty into Opportunity. I am excited to talk to you about that book today, Curtis, but let's talk more about Curtis. He's the vice president of direct International offices for Franklin Covey. And therefore that's why he gets to go to Bali and London.
[00:01:13] With over 24 years of experience in the training industry, Curtis is an internationally recognized presenter, content developer, change consultant, business leader, and coach. His passion for enabling organizations at change resulted in the co-creation of transformative industry leading solutions, including change element leaders at change, managing millennials, millennials at work, and the change practitioner.
[00:01:41] I think he knows a little bit about change, so we're going to get up the whole download. He's formerly the president and CEO of red tree leadership. Curtis managed the world class brand who moved my cheese. Do you have that book? You should have that book. Write that down. And created a practical approach to help individuals and leaders succeed with an ever complex world of change in the workplace.
[00:02:05] Curtis joined Franklin Covey as a senior change consultant and co practice leader. In 2016, Curtis got promoted and became managing director of the UK and Ireland and in 2018 was asked to assume additional management responsibilities of, listen to this, Germany, Switzerland, and Austria. I'm jealous. And in 2019 took an additional responsibility.
[00:02:31] Hold on, hold on. China, Japan, and Australia. He has constant jet lag, but is still coherent today for our podcast. Please welcome to the show Curtis Bateman.
[00:02:45] Curtis Bateman: it's great to be here. You can put France on the list. That's a new one now. So I get
[00:02:48] Nicole: Oh, bonjour, bonjour. Oh, that's so good. Oui, oui, oui. All right. I went to Paris, Curtis for the first time two Christmases ago. I was on the Eiffel Tower with a glass of real champagne, not Prosecco, friends, although I do love a good Prosecco. I had the champagne in my hand with my family, with the lights and the things and the stuff.
[00:03:15] Oh my God, you got to go to Paris if you haven't been.
[00:03:18] Curtis Bateman: It is beautiful. Yeah, it's great city.
[00:03:21] Nicole: Yeah, fantastic. All right. So I'm so glad you're here because you've got all of this wisdom and my people that listen to this podcast, they're like leaders and HR peeps, and they have so much change coming at them. Curtis left and right, change the software, change this, change that. So we need your wisdom.
[00:03:42] And I'm again, I'm so excited about this book. Everybody buy the book. It'll be in the show notes. Change: How to Turn Uncertainty into Opportunity. And where I would love for you to start Curtis is in the beginning of this, there's a parable,
[00:03:54] Curtis Bateman: Yep.
[00:03:55] Nicole: and it's got like a boat and people on the boat and we have to be the captains of change, everybody. So will you tell us like the synopsis of the parable that's in the front?
[00:04:07] Curtis Bateman: Yeah, it felt like a miss if I wrote a book and didn't include a parable after working with Dr Johnson on _Who Moved my Cheese?_ for so many years. So we had to include a parable and we have published it on its own. People want the parable.
[00:04:21] Nicole: Oh, okay. Wait, hold it up again. Who rocked the boat by Curtis Bateman, a story about navigating the in Inevitability of change. All right. Very good.
[00:04:33] Curtis Bateman: It's on Amazon as well. So let me tell you about it. This idea has been in my head for a long time and it's a story about a boat that transports goods and has a crew that works on that boat. And the captain said, Hey, you know what? Let's try and go a different way to deliver these goods and see if we can do it faster, right? Businesses are always trying to get faster and better and get outcomes. And
[00:04:59] Nicole: You have to.
[00:05:00] Curtis Bateman: yeah, you got to. So the crew embarks on this journey and on the journey, they take a different route and they find themselves starting to hear a loud noise in the distance. And they realize that it's a waterfall and, Not a lot to do about that, they're going over the waterfall, and so this ship's captain and the crew, there are five, well, six members of the crew, and they find themselves going over the waterfall into this ravine, the ship gets broken apart, and we're exploring the journey of what do we do after.
[00:05:36] And what's fascinating, we named the characters Move, Minimize, Wait, Resist, Quit, and Quits. And these are reactions, common reactions that we see to change. And through the story, we play out how each of those reactions might behave in this complex situation of a boat going over a waterfall, and then trying to find a way back out of it. And the journey of coming up the side of this mountain, trying to create a new way of transport, trying to find a new way forward. And it was really fun. People fought me, everybody I had read the book on the names of these characters. But what's so fun is these are common reactions we see to change all the time.
[00:06:26] They're not right or wrong, good or bad. They're just common reactions. And so we see the ship's crew through the lens of each of their reactions, figure out how to overcome their reluctance, resistance, or even enthusiasm for the change and build a way out of the ravine and then even build a new form of transport to get new and better results.
[00:06:50] And it's fun to watch the leader in the story, figure out how to lead each of these different kinds of people and their reaction. It's fun to explore the reactions and have those expressed in the story format. And the reason we did this, if you read the rest of the book, you'll see is the journey of the ship and its crew really represents this modified J or U shaped curve in their journey.
[00:07:18] We have illustrations in
[00:07:20] Nicole: I know this book has lots of pictures and charts. I love it.
[00:07:24] Curtis Bateman: But like pictures, we have the good, not a lot of business books get to work with illustrators and pictures, but I thought, yeah, this is so fun. Just a shout out to my great illustrator out in California, just did a brilliant job. You can see more about his work online, but it just is a chance to tell in a story format -because people connect with stories- it's a chance to tell in a story format the journey of change that's quite predictable. We all experience the same predictable pattern when we go through change. So that's our parable or story of the boat, the crew, and the ship going over the waterfall and working their way back.
[00:08:03] Nicole: Okay, and here's the thing about stories is that's our primal language storytelling. So I think it's fantastic. So I was looking through on page 25. You have a deeper look at the five common reactions to change in these five characters. And so of course, what do we do when we read these?
[00:08:22] You're like, who am I? in a change. Who am I? And I am Move. I am Move. And so I love in the book where you talk about Move has an impulse to charge quickly into action and toward the new objective. Like that is Nicole Greer in a nutshell. Let's make it happen. And I love how each one of these characters, like there's an advantage to being a mover and there's some disadvantages, right? So it's kind of like looking at personality and the change a little bit. Would you agree with
[00:08:53] Curtis Bateman: that?
[00:08:53] A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that people always ask me is, so is this my change type? And my response is it depends on the context.
[00:09:03] Nicole: Oh, talk, talk, talk about that.
[00:09:05] Curtis Bateman: Yeah. So if I put Nicole in a context that's less comfortable, unfamiliar, you don't know about your skill set for it, it may cause you to be a little bit more reluctant about the change.
[00:09:19] So I often tell people the reaction's neither right or wrong. It's just making an informed decision about the reaction and context matters. And so let's understand am I reacting or am I choosing a reaction for the change that's going to create the most value when we pause and we look at what's the strength of each of the reactions and what's the weaknesses And it's cool because this is where change intersects with people.
[00:09:48] And in my point, my, from my perspective, it's where so many change approaches fail because they look at process, protocol, checklist, workflow, and they don't get the intersection of people.
[00:10:00] Nicole: Right. Like we got the project management office all over this thing. And I, and hello, I love the project management office. I love all that stuff. Right. I think that's fantastic, but you're right. It's, these humans are the people that have to actually navigate the change, make the change happen, develop the new behaviors, put the habits in place, communicate with each other, all the things.
[00:10:20] Yeah. So I love what you're saying. It's a little bit, your personality. So my first reaction is I was a mover, but you're right in the context. I might decide I need to wait a hot minute. That's one of the other characters. Because I might be scared. Of the... right? I might be scared of it. Or I might be like, that's a dumb idea and resist it completely.
[00:10:41] Curtis Bateman: That's right. And that's what makes all of these so valuable as you can see yourself in them. And if people really pause the ones where they tend to move from the towards the Move character are changes that they're either excited about or changes they have chosen themselves. They're initiating the change.
[00:11:01] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:11:02] Curtis Bateman: And that makes it feel fun and exciting.
[00:11:04] Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So just so you can write this down, everybody, the five common reactions to change and the five characters in the parable are Move, which basically is like, let's go, let's do it. Minimize is just tell me what you want me to do. And that one's interesting. Cause it's I don't want to be responsible, but I just want to know what you need me to do. So it's over. Is that kind of how you look at Minimize?
[00:11:25] Curtis Bateman: Yeah, I'll
[00:11:25] Nicole: minimize?
[00:11:27] Curtis Bateman: I have this little activity. I sometimes do where I'll have people move tables in a room. You came in, you got the seat you wanted. What I want you to do now is move three seats away, and I'm really three seats away from where you are and sit next to somebody different, and you'll see the minimize.
[00:11:41] They'll go 1-2-3 and they'll go to that seat. They're doing the least amount possible to be compliant and cooperative, but it just shows, it's funny, it's there.
[00:11:52] Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. And then there's a person that waits. Let me know when this is real. So I'm just waiting to see if this is just another email that's coming or an actual initiative that I should take action on. Then there's Resist. Why are we doing this? Quit. I'm not doing that. So that's the quit while you're at work. And then the Quits is, Peace out. I'm out of here. Is that right?
[00:12:13] Curtis Bateman: That's right. And you know, the Quit , connects with language we've used, quiet quitting. It's, "I'm still here, but I have packed it in." And what's interesting, Quits, some people like, Oh, that's terrible because it creates attrition. That person has initiated a more significant change, but they prefer that because they're in control of it. And it also declares where they are versus having somebody in your team, really fighting against you. So there is some value, even in that reaction. You understand what you're working with.
[00:12:44] Nicole: Yeah. And as organizations shift and change over the years what was once a fit for an employee may not be a fit for where we're headed, and so if somebody, decides to jump ship, that's okay. Right?
[00:13:00] Curtis Bateman: Nice pun. I liked it. Good reference.
[00:13:04] Nicole: Yeah but I think what and what I'm sitting here thinking Curtis is if I take a group through a change initiative, I think what a great exercise to do is just to introduce the parable and these five characters, right? And then to just get a dialogue cooking about who, which one do you navigate to naturally, like Nicole Greer just did? "Oh, I'm a move," you know, and then, what circumstances might push you into one of these other characters?
[00:13:32] Curtis Bateman: And what's so magnificent about this, Nicole, is instead of me saying, you're terrible at change, or having a colleague use language that feels really threatening or accusatory, we're now using a fun, everybody relates to the definition set of terms that, that makes the dialogue quite a bit more healthy. Because now we can relate to it. We've got a common language. And we can say that's just a reaction. It doesn't mean I'm bad or not capable. It means this is how I'm reacting. So what's next? What can I choose?
[00:14:07] Nicole: Yeah, I love that. And here's the thing too, is we're trainers. And I've been training a long time, Curtis. So, I immediately think of things like, we need different hats for the sailors. I got a whole thing worked up in my mind about how this thing looks. We should do it, lakeside, we should do it at the beach...
[00:14:26] Curtis Bateman: Everybody builds paper boats. We see I see where you're going
[00:14:31] Nicole: Yeah, I just went all the way to training craziness. Yeah, so I love it. Okay, so there's you got it right out of the gate everybody. There's this parable, we've got this change. We got to take a new route with the boat and then we have these five different kinds of First mates that we can take a look at and people can identify who they are in the change and it starts with the people They have to change, we have to integrate it with the project management process All right.
[00:14:54] Now you've got like the waterfall. So let's talk about the waterfall for a moment. It's kind of the journey, right, of how change happens. And there's four different
[00:15:04] Curtis Bateman: zones.
[00:15:05] Nicole: Yeah. Let's talk about your zones for a minute. I love that too.
[00:15:10] Curtis Bateman: Yeah,
[00:15:10] Nicole: We're on page 29, everybody
[00:15:11] Curtis Bateman: Yeah, yeah, page 29. Let me just give you a quick verbal description if you're just listening. So there's two axes in this graph. The up and down, some people don't like horizontal and vertical. So the one that goes low to high is results or outcomes. And the one that goes left to right is time.
[00:15:29] And if you think we're just cruising along at some level of result that we're comfortable with, I call that the zone of status quo. We know what to expect. We show up every day. Work has a predictability about it. As humans, that feels comfortable. And there's this moment where a change is introduced. And when the change is introduced, the curve starts to go down.
[00:15:55] And it goes down into what I call the zone of disruption. This impacts that, you know, low to high axis, the vertical axis, because results start to suffer. Now you might say, well, no, our revenue didn't go down. Results can be so much more employee engagement, attrition, morale. They could be opportunity costs, but somewhere when we introduce a change, there is a variable that's impacted in the negative way. And it continues to go down and that zone of disruption is highly people-related People are having one of those five reactions or maybe another reaction, but they're reacting and they're attempting to come to grips with what is it that's really changing. Why is it changing and what does it mean to me? And until they can start to answer those questions, they stay in that zone of disruption, which can create quite a prolonged period of impact. They get the answers, takes them to the bottom of the dip where they say, I can choose to be part of this, which is good. I choose, right? You start to shift from this is happening to me to I choose to be part of it. And then we start to work on the zone of adoption, the third zone, which is where we're starting to Look at how and the ways that we're doing things so that we can improve our results.
[00:17:21] Because the whole reason we're changing is to get a better outcome, right? If we're changing for change sake, that's terrible. But if we're really working on changing for a better outcome, then we're starting to work our way back through that. There will be setbacks. This zone is where we get the IBM data, the Harvard data that says 85 percent of changes fail to reach their intended outcome change dies here because it's hard.
[00:17:45] We take a step forward. It didn't work. We have a failure. We have a success. And we lose momentum. So we keep pushing through that. We persevere, persist, and then eventually we get back to a level of result that matches where we started. So far, all we've done is incur the cost of change.
[00:18:04] Nicole: Right. We're in the dip people.
[00:18:06] Curtis Bateman: if we're not careful, we plant the flag of victory and all we've done is plant the flag of victory that says we've paid all the costs of change and we're moving on.
[00:18:14] But really there's a fourth zone which represents opportunity to say, How do we take what we've been discovering and learning and amplify that? How do we create value? How do we extend it? And as we move into that fourth zone of innovation, what we find is this is where the payback happens. And if we're really intentional about it, then the area under the curve starts to become larger than the dip and that way we have the, what accountants, economists, business leaders will love, is suddenly There's a return that's greater than the investment and we get a return On our investment and the change becomes meaningful and worthwhile. So four zones Yeah.
[00:18:56] Nicole: Yeah. And what I think is really important about everything you just said is the awareness of this dip, right? And the communication of, okay, right now we're in disruption. If this feels disruptive, we're there. Right.
[00:19:14] Curtis Bateman: What are you feeling? What are you doing? Those are human responses. But own it. And as a leader, don't pretend that it doesn't exist. And don't try and skip past it, because you never do.
[00:19:24] Nicole: No, and everybody thinks you're blind if you're not saying that it's true. My favorite change management process I was part of during COVID, Duke Energy, huge electric company, power company, they took 700 customer service reps through a new technology process using SAP. And so anybody who's brought on SAP as your enterprise software, it's like, right, right, right.
[00:19:50] And so as we were going through the disruption, it was always communicated like, we know this is a challenge. We know that, you used to be able to change, turn off somebody's electricity and turn on the new guy's electricity, while you were drinking coffee, having a conversation, talking to the customer at the same time with one finger.
[00:20:11] Because you did it for 20 years, but now you have to look at the screen and figure out where to click and, you know, and so I think that's a big part of it is just telling people this is going to be disruptive.
[00:20:24] Curtis Bateman: Yeah. And I've actually had leaders say to me, we're going to skip those middle two zones. Like, well, I wish you all the very best, 'cause unless you've got robots, you're not skipping them. So yeah, just own it and communicate that, know that it's happening.
[00:20:42] Nicole: Yeah. And I have a gal that I worked with on that, I was assigned people and her name was Rosa, and Curtis, she was a native Spanish speaker. And I just think about how much work she had to do because she was, not only was she learning SAP and getting off the old system of technology, she had to do all of this with Spanish and English in her brain at the same time, you know?
[00:21:06] And so she would like chat me on the side. What does this word mean? You know? And so I just think about like, you know, a lot of us, we have so many advantages in a change. We don't have these, a disadvantage of using English as a second language or whatever. So, I think this disruption is important.
[00:21:22] And then there's the adoption. And I love what you said at the bottom of the dip, instead of this is happening to me, I want to be part of it. Oh my gosh, that's fantastic. And I think if we could get people to see that and understand that.
[00:21:36] Curtis Bateman: It's a paradigm shift for people. This is where Who Moved my Cheese excelled, because there's one moment in the change curve. This is where all the thinking started to spread from with my work with , because he focused on a specific question and the question in the book is, What would you do if you weren't afraid? And that's the let go of the fear, the anxiety, and not that there aren't real issues. None of this is meant to sugarcoat it or magic wand it, right? None of that. This is real. But if we shift from saying, "Oh my goodness, they're doing this to me," to, "okay, I understand what's changing, why it's changing. There are good reasons for it. Or even if there aren't, I at least understand them. Now I'm choosing to engage in this change." There is something that happens within humans when you make that shift and start to take ownership of your part in it. Really, really transformational.
[00:22:28] Nicole: Mm hmm. Yeah. And, I would say there's a lot of things that could help you at the bottom of the dip, but the thing that I always tell people about change is again, back to the, "why are we doing this?" Like people need to know the why. Leaders do not sit around in the C-suite or wherever and go, Hey, you know what we'll do today? Here's what we'll do. Curtis. We'll buy some very expensive software just to upset everybody. Right. That is not why they're doing it. The reason they're doing it is because the old software is sunsetting. We should have done this 10 years ago or whatever is going on. But leaders aren't like, you know,
[00:23:11] Curtis Bateman: Yeah, they do have a benefit, right? They've been in the back room working on this for six months or 12 months. So they've already gone through this mental gymnastics to
[00:23:19] Nicole: Yeah, they've already dipped,
[00:23:21] Curtis Bateman: And so when they show up with the big reveal, sometimes leaders don't realize, why is everybody so agitated about this? Well, you haven't had the same six months lead in that you have.
[00:23:34] So perfect your storytelling around the reasoning and help people on that journey and it will accelerate their willingness to engage.
[00:23:44] Nicole: Okay. I love that.
[00:23:45] Announcer: Are you ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference, or organization to help them with their strategies, systems, and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy, and results. Your organization will get lit from within. Email her at Nicole at VibrantCulture. com And be sure to check out Nicole's TEDxTalk at VibrantCulture. com
[00:24:11] I love that. Okay. And so my next thing I have in the book. Look at all my sticky notes!
[00:24:18] Curtis Bateman: I feel like I should have my book right here following along. Yeah.
[00:24:22] Nicole: Now I'm on page 37. Curtis, we might have to have seven podcast episodes. I don't know. All right, we'll do as much as we can in this episode. So, you have on page 37 introducing your change model to your team.
[00:24:34] So I think this is so dang smart because people have to have change acumen. It's like a subsection of business acumen. And if you don't teach about change, then you're just hitting people with changes or putting them in front of them, right? So I love this little section. You say one of the first things you can do as a leader is introduce your team to the change model.
[00:24:56] Hello, everybody. Having a common metaphor, option one, hold a team meeting, option two, read the book. Okay. So another shameless plug for Curtis's book, hold it up, hold it up. Curtis, there it is. Who rocked the boat? Yeah. So talk about maybe this concept of introducing the change model, I think. Maybe you have a story in your back pocket about people who've done this?
[00:25:21] Curtis Bateman: Yeah. Well, there is some very specific reasoning we included this recommendation in the book.
[00:25:27] Nicole: Okay, tell us.
[00:25:28] Curtis Bateman: Um, everybody will recognize. stories from their own life in the change model when you draw it up on the board and explain it. It's simple. I mean, a big word for it is it's mentally transportable, right? I can remember it and I can draw it on a napkin in a restaurant and talk to my good friend about it. And my good friend is going to say my teenager this or at work this and they will find relevant personal experiences that apply directly to that journey. The reason we want to share it is our people will see previous work changes in that, and it gives them a way to talk about it, or it gives them a way to describe something that's going on personally. And that instantly makes it relatable for everybody else. Oh, this is a predictable pattern. We might feel like we're in this crazy messy space, but you know what? We're in the zone of disruption and as a result it allows you You know, if you draw it on a whiteboard, have people come up with a sticky note and put where they think they are and then talk about why do we think we're where we are and what would make that better? So it fosters just rich dialogue from a very simple framework. And leaders need this. We have so many leaders leading teams that have no experience or formal training on leading change. And the minute you give them something like this, it creates this rich dialogue and they feel like, wow, I learned so much. I feel like I made a difference today with my team. And you can come back to it over and over again. All right. It's been a month. Let's talk about where we think we are. Where are we stuck? Or here's the next change. Let's get out ahead of this. Here's the model. And it gives everybody a common, simple, digestible way of talking about the change.
[00:27:25] I've used it with my teenagers when we're talking about things at school or, I mean, in the book, I talk about moving my family to Europe and I used it with my kids when they were going to a new school. And whether or not they liked it, they recognized it and it gave them a way to interact with me and talk about it. And it's so helpful.
[00:27:47] Nicole: Yeah, awesome. So I've got two things in my brain. One is one of the biggest mistakes -I'm curious to what you think about this- biggest mistakes managers make, and I think they make it not they're not trying to be do anything. that they shouldn't be doing, but they shouldn't be doing this is because they don't sit down and say, let me introduce you to the change model.
[00:28:08] This is the dip we're going to go through. This is how it's going to work. Here's what managers do when they get the message. We've got a big change. They go to their team and they go, I hope y'all aren't mad. I hope y'all won't be upset about this change, but it's not my fault.
[00:28:25] It came from up there and we'll just knuckle down and we'll get through it. Like that's kind of like a reaction and it's a total fear reaction, but now the manager can not do that. Don't do that. Everybody do this. Have the little exercise on page 37. Do that instead.
[00:28:44] Curtis Bateman: This is such a great space for a couple of insights. First of all, frontline leaders are the fulcrum of change. This is the invitation to everybody listening to say, you are the secret sauce to change success in your organization.
[00:29:02] Nicole: Mm hmm.
[00:29:03] Curtis Bateman: And if you will lean into it and choose to lead through it rather than to join in the misery of everybody else, you can make a difference.
[00:29:15] And it will advance your career. It will increase your success because you're going to take a team and help them figure out where there's opportunity and where there's success here, that doesn't make it easy. You'll probably have to have some difficult conversations. But that's the special stewardship of leaders.
[00:29:37] And I want to acknowledge if you hear about the change, you've got your own personal reaction. What in the world does this mean to me?
[00:29:44] Nicole: Right. Sure.
[00:29:45] Curtis Bateman: But your people are counting on you to lead them. And so acknowledge you're playing on two different spaces. One is an individual feeling the same kind of thing, and one is a leader, but lean into this as an opportunity to make a difference and to create better outcomes. And it will be rich and rewarding. It will help you be a better leader.
[00:30:07] Nicole: Yeah. And oh, I want to say something about that. That's so good. And what he said, y'all it's tweetable. We're not tweeting anymore. It's X able. Is it X able?
[00:30:16] Curtis Bateman: I can't get my head around that, but yeah, put it on X.
[00:30:19] Nicole: Forget X, put it on Instagram. Anyway, so, "frontline leaders are the fulcrum of change." Oh my gosh. Quotable. That's from Curtis, everybody. Curtis Bateman. Write that down. Okay. So here's the other thing too, that I always coach my leaders that are going through change. This is what I tell them. I'm like, listen, listen, listen to me, please. I'm begging you. When you accomplish these changes and you go through Curtis's dip, right? His four stages, you own that for forever. It goes on your resume. Nobody can take it away from you. It is what we call experience. And that is money. And it will pay in the long run to get through these changes and navigate them. I mean, I know that from my own personal life. Isn't that true for you? All these promotions you've got, it's because this is what they said.
[00:31:10] This is what they said at Curtis's company. They said, give it to Curtis. Curtis can change it. I don't know how he does it, but he'll get through it and he won't complain that much, and then boom, he's going to France and Singapore and all the places.
[00:31:26] Curtis Bateman: Yeah. I mean, I just had two more opportunities handed my way, which are significant changes And I'm just getting into them right now, right? It's just the way it is.
[00:31:36] Nicole: Right. But I would also say, I bet he defaults to move as well, but anyway, that would be my, I'd roll the dice. I'd bet in Vegas on that. Okay. All right. So let's talk about the last part, like we're out of the dip and now we're into innovation. So I think I have a story that might go there. So, you know, the Duke Energy I was just talking about, what happened after this big giant change at Duke is all of a sudden now they had a change management, like department. And all these humans that worked at Duke that used to answer phones and run call centers now have this whole new career and are helping the other changes. Is that what you're talking about when you say innovation?
[00:32:20] Curtis Bateman: I love it. That's one great example of it because out of the change, opportunity was created and that opportunity created value. So that's, that is one really nice example. And another, a second way, you know, there's probably 30 ways to talk about this, but another way to talk about it is, at Duke Energy or anywhere else, we're making the change to put in a new system. Do we want new efficiencies? Do we want better customer service. Are we looking for, X, Y, Z? I don't know. But once we start to see the benefits, the reasons emerge from it, then I encourage people to do three things to help amplify the success. First thing is start telling the story to other people. Hey, we just went through this. Can you believe this? And tell it to other people that you work with. They are going to say, wow, did you think of, or did you consider, right? They're going to challenge your thinking and that will inevitably feed additional ideas around what you can do with the change you've implemented.
[00:33:34] So,
[00:33:34] Nicole: so good.
[00:33:35] Curtis Bateman: and it's just sharing your story. The second thing is we've got to celebrate when we win. So often companies are onto the next thing and I'm like, Whoa, hold on. We just did something pretty special here. Let's celebrate it so that people connect change with good experience. Because most people, when you say, tell me what words come to mind when you say , I get a lot of negative words.
[00:34:02] Nicole: I know. It's so sad.
[00:34:03] Curtis Bateman: Painful, miserable. I hate it. Tiring. I'm like, whoa, we've got to connect some more positive words to this. So if we can celebrate, we can do that. And then the other thing, which is I suppose connected to the first one is get curious. Say, I wonder what else this could lead to.
[00:34:23] We have a shortage of curiosity in the world. We're so busy doing that we just have this curiosity deficit. So just breathe for a minute and say, I wonder what else we could do with this or what else this could lead to. And what you'll find is it opens up all of these possibilities. And so the value of the change goes from maybe being this much to this much.
[00:34:48] And it could be personal. Like you said, those people that helped lead that change. What else could that mean for me? What other opportunities does that create for me? And the other question is, well, we're doing this with this automation. I wonder if it could improve customer service in this way, or if it could do that, and that's where you get this collateral or residual benefit that comes from actually engaging in the change.
[00:35:16] Nicole: Yeah, so I can't help myself. I got to tell this. So at Duke, the celebrate thing you said. Listen to this, everybody. Listen, Curtis. Listen up, people. So here's what happens. We're all sitting remote because it is COVID. And this box comes to the front door. And on the box, it says, do not open till Friday at four o'clock.
[00:35:35] So we're all like, did you get a box? Did you get a box? We're all, slacking and texting and teaming. And so we all got the box. And so it's like, are you going to open the box? No, I'm not going to open the box. We shouldn't open the box. Maybe they'll make us turn on our cameras and open our box. Better not open your box, all this stuff. So it created all this swirl and buzz, which was great because we'd been doing this for I don't know, 12 weeks. And so finally, we get on this big giant Zoom or whatever it was, Webex, and we all have our boxes and then the guy's like, go get a really great cup of coffee or a glass with a stem with a red substance in it and come back.
[00:36:14] And we're all like, okay. And so then we get to open our box and then this guy gets on and he is a professional chocolate taster and I'm still trying to figure out how to get that job, but he, so we all sat there and tasted these chocolates all the places Curtis Bateman has been on the planet. This one's from, got this in it from South America and that from Africa and this from wherever, and we ate all this and sipped our beverages and it was so good.
[00:36:44] Curtis Bateman: Yeah. Yeah. And what I love about that example is, it was celebrating together and I mean, it costs some money and time, but we didn't send everybody to a big resort to celebrate. It was in the flow of work, but it was memorable and special and recognition. And we celebrated together for the great work we've done. I love it.
[00:37:09] Nicole: Yeah. It was so, so good. All right. So what's next? Okay. So we have sat down. We've talked about these five different humans we can turn into. We've read the parable. We've explained the change model, but now we got to get going on this change. So what do we do next? Curtis?
[00:37:30] Curtis Bateman: The first thing to realize is this model will meet you wherever you are. So I've had a hospital call me and they said, we've been working on this change for a year. It's just not working. So sometimes you get a framework and you have to start at the beginning. This model is designed to meet you where you are.
[00:37:47] Okay. So let's diagnose. Are we still in the zone of disruption? Are we still in the zone? Are we now in the zone of adoption? Where are we and why are we there? So the model can meet you wherever you are in the journey.
[00:37:57] Nicole: Nice.
[00:37:58] Curtis Bateman: And, you know, there are probably three levels of thinking about this. One is just awareness, right? We know the change model. We understand it's a predictable pattern. That will help us, right? We will be better off in our next change because we know that. And if we can use it and talk about it, we'll be better off. They'll help us move through it with a little more elegance and a little more clarity. And our goal isn't to eliminate a zone. Our goal is to decrease the amount of time and decrease the depth of impact and the more we can do that short and shallow then the less cost there is, the faster we get the benefit. So if we work on these skills we can find that we'll just be more equipped to move through the change process.
[00:38:45] And then what's interesting is, if we start to work on these skills and we use them over and over again, and we add to that, woven throughout the fabric of the whole book, are tools. And they're easy tools. You just read the question and you answer it. You know, is this change a one to 10 in terms of scale? And what happens if we don't make this change? And the tools are meant to foster dialogue and also help provide clarity around next steps. So if we can then learn skills and tools and we use them over and over again, we move from awareness to a level of skill or competence. And if we use them with repetition and intentionality, we actually can move to the space of becoming competent, right? We have to change competency it becomes a strength that we have as we lead change. And what's interesting in all of that is we're still working with humans. They're still going to have reactions. Changes are going to have curve balls. They're not always going to go well, but we're so much more equipped to make success come out of all of that, all of those ingredients in the mixing bowl.
[00:39:54] So awareness, skill towards competency, using individual skills, leadership skills, and tools.
[00:40:02] Nicole: Yeah. And then I think we hit where I've tried to point people and I'm sure you try to point people here too. It's like, then we have, we're building a vibrant culture and see the word vibrant means lit up, action oriented, energized, let's make it happen. Let's have a brighter future. Let's do all this stuff. And if you have changed competencies, or the organization has it, you have a - this is ROI stuff, right? You have an advantage in the marketplace. Yes.
[00:40:34] Curtis Bateman: You absolutely have an advantage and that is the point, right?
[00:40:37] Nicole: Yes. Why do it if it doesn't serve us?
[00:40:39] Curtis Bateman: That's right, nimble and agile. Right now my data shows, and this is tens of thousands of data points across industries, cultures, you name it. Eighty-eight percent of people, their starting point is that the change will lead to something worse for them. And of all people surveyed, 72 percent believe the change will lead to something worse for the organization.
[00:41:01] Nicole: Isn't that crazy?
[00:41:02] Curtis Bateman: Those starting points are alarming because we live in a world where change is simply not going away. There's more of it. And so the question is, are we just going to live with the paradigm of "it's going to make it worse for me, it's going to make it worse for them," or are we going to develop a capability that says, I'm going to stand apart from that data? And I'm going to have this change lead to something better for me and my organization. So lean in on awareness, lean in on developing some capability and get to the point where you actually have a change muscle, a change competency, and it will, it'll impact your culture, it'll impact your career, it'll impact your satisfaction in a very significant and meaningful way.
[00:41:49] Nicole: Yeah. And for my HR folks that are listening, then we have to take this all the way back to our employee lifecycle. And so the ads we place on Indeed need to say, are you a change agent? Do you want to work here? Cause we change and we have a change muscle, all the things, we have a vibrant culture, so then we really integrated into the human we're looking for, right? Because it's easier to have a change friendly human, one that's got a little change muscle because not only does the company have to have the, well, the company doesn't have any change muscle, it has a bunch of employees with change muscles, right? So we've got to really, integrate that into our our competencies in which we give people their performance evaluations, blah, blah, blah. And I think it's really fun when you have an innovative, great company because we all know about Blockbuster and Kodak and Circuit City and Radio Shack...
[00:42:45] Curtis Bateman: The list goes on and on, right?
[00:42:48] Nicole: And let's not do that. Let's do something that makes sense. All right. So here's what we've covered today. I'm checking my notes, friends. So this is what Curtis has laid down -superior content for you to take back- there's five different types of humans in the change process. So we've covered those, the five things where people end up and
[00:43:06] Curtis Bateman: Yeah. Reactions. Yep.
[00:43:07] Nicole: You can move in and out of those, right? He's talked about his model for change that you can actually put on a whiteboard and have a dialogue with your people about. And then he's talked about once we get started, we have to start telling the story of our change, or in the innovation part, we have to start telling the story, we have to celebrate and we have to get curious so that we can take advantage of the innovation part of the model. And then he says we got to get our awareness up. We gotta work on our skills and we gotta get our change muscles going. So, we didn't even get like past chapter two.
[00:43:43] Curtis Bateman: I know. I know that
[00:43:45] Nicole: So many good
[00:43:46] Curtis Bateman: A teaser. Yeah, that's right. Go buy the book. That's a teaser.
[00:43:49] Nicole: Yeah, yeah, go. Well, I mean, you should. That's what we shouldn't should all over you, but you should buy it. It's got some genius in it. And so here's what I'd like to do, Curtis. If people want to find out more, they want to like, help me, Curtis, help me, help me
[00:44:04] Curtis Bateman: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
[00:44:04] Nicole: Where do they find you and how do they go about that?
[00:44:08] Curtis Bateman: Perfect. Thank you. So if you wanna find me personally, if you go to linkedin.com/curtisbateman, you'll end up on me and I do write on this and I blog on it. You know, there's ongoing articles and further thinking client experiences. I just had a client call yesterday that I've got to write a new article about. So there's ongoing thought there. And if you want to connect the organization I'm with is Franklin Covey, we mentioned that. If you go to franklincovey. com and you go to the speaker section, you'll find me listed there with information about the content. So both of those avenues will get you back to me.
[00:44:42] Nicole: Okay. Fantastic. Or call me. Y'all have my number. Y'all know how to find me. I got Curtis's phone number..
[00:44:49] Curtis Bateman: That's right.
[00:44:49] Nicole: Okay. All right. It's been so great to be with you on the build a vibrant culture podcast. Everybody go out and get the book Change: how to turn uncertainty into opportunity by Curtis Bateman and all of his friends.
[00:45:01] And if you will do this go down and hit the like button real quick and leave a little love note. Dear Curtis, I love you and leave that for him. And then what we'll do is we'll bring another amazing guest. Maybe Curtis will come back and, hang out with us another time in the future and we'll make it a little series.
[00:45:18] It's been so good to have you, Curtis. Thank you.
[00:45:20] Curtis Bateman: My pleasure. Thank you.
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