Oh My Fraud

Three tales of pardons granted to white-collar criminals who just happened to be on President Donald Trump’s good side. 


 

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Creators and Guests

Host
Caleb Newquist
Writer l Content at @GustoHQ | Co-host @ohmyfraud | Founding editor @going_concern | Former @CCDedu prof | @JeffSymphony board member | Trying to pay attention.

What is Oh My Fraud?

"Oh My Fraud" is a podcast where the true crime is shocking, gruesome, heinous, but with way fewer dead bodies.

Hosted by Caleb Newquist, each episode explores fraud cases from petty swindles to corporate conspiracies, examining the people involved, their motives, methods, and how they spent the loot before it all came to a spectacular, inevitable end.

Attention: This is a machine-generated transcript. As such, there may be spelling, grammar, and accuracy errors throughout. Thank you for your understanding!

Caleb Newquist: [00:00:00] For years, healthcare executive Paul Volcheck withheld millions of dollars in taxes from his employees paychecks, but failed to turn the money over to the IRS. Instead, he used company funds to finance a lavish lifestyle, including a $2 million yacht. In April 2025, Volcheck was sentenced to 18 months in federal prison and ordered to pay nearly $4.4 million in restitution. The judge warned that wealth was not a, quote, get out of jail free card. But just eight days before sentencing, Falchuk's mother, longtime Republican fundraiser Elizabeth Fargo, had contributed $1 million to a pro-Trump political committee. The following day, she attended an exclusive 1 million per person dinner at Mar a Lago. And on April 23rd, just 12 days after her son's sentencing, President Trump gave Paul Volcheck a full and unconditional pardon. Thanks, mom.

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Caleb Newquist: [00:01:26] This is a fraud, a true crime podcast. Where to err is human to forgive. Diabolical. I'm Caleb Nyquist. Hey, how's it going? Uh, I won't keep you long. Uh. We will. We got to get right into our stories today. Uh, but I'll just mention one thing that caught my eye recently that was kind of strange. I was flying home from a recent trip to Yellowstone National Park in Grand Teton National Park, which, by the way, if you have not been to these places, uh, do yourself a favor. Unbelievable. Just amazing. Like you're in Yellowstone Park. Most of Yellowstone Park is you're you're inside a volcano. I can't get into it, but it's true. But, um, you know, if you don't, but if you don't like nature or land conservation, um, then yeah, don't go there and instead go jump in a lake, find a lake that you do like and jump into it. That's what I'm saying. Okay. Anyway, we're, we're in the Jackson Hole airport and in the men's restrooms they have I am not kidding. Tablet computer holders on the backs of the stall doors. And look, I, I don't want to make light of anyone's digestive challenges, but I'm really not sure that a tablet holder is what we need on the back of a men's room stall door. I mean, if you need a hype video to get things moving, then sure, whatever. Do what you got to do. But it's not.

Caleb Newquist: [00:02:58] It's. You don't you shouldn't sit for that long. Let's not encourage people, especially men, to stay in there longer than they need to. Okay. They're bound to miss a flight or something. Jeez. All right. Anyway, if you've got comments. Questions, ideas for stories. Email us at fraud@cpe.com. And we're going to get straight into it. In this episode we're going to talk about forgiveness. You know, the thing that you ask for and the person giving it to you never let you forget. Specifically, we're going to talk about pardons granted by President Trump. Now, some of you may be thinking, I didn't come to a fraud podcast to hear you talk about politics. And yeah, sure, I get it. But this isn't really an episode about politics. Okay, maybe it is a little. But it's also about fraud, obviously, but it's also about power, justice, fairness, and, you know, probably a few other things that I can't think of right now. The point is how Trump is using his power in this context, that is to pardon fraudsters is pretty unique. Now, to be fair, white collar criminals have been getting more than their fair share of clemency from US presidents lately, particularly over the last 35 years or so. Professor Todd Hoar of the Indiana University Kelley School of Business is a former white collar criminal defense lawyer who now studies corporate crime and federal sentencing policy. Earlier this year, he led a group of researchers who dug into executive clemency data that the DOJ tracks.

Caleb Newquist: [00:04:52] The Department of Justice and Law Law360 published a write up about this research at the beginning of the year. What they found is that, quote, white collar offenders have, on average, been the beneficiaries of more than half of all pardons, going back to at least 1989, when former President George H. W Bush occupied the white House. And so if you're listening to this and you like Trump or you're just skeptical of the criticism of him right now, you're probably saying, see, he's no different than any other president. They all do it. And first off, you don't have to yell. We're all right here. Second, Professor Ha's research found that in Trump's first term, he issued 144 pardons and 101 of those were to white collar offenders. So 70%. To compare that to another president. In their first term, 76% of George W Bush's pardons went to white collar criminals. But the actual number was only 22. His two term total was 95. About 50% of his total pardons. President Clinton's overall rate of white collar pardons across his two terms was 60%. Obama's is 52%. George H.W. Bush 57%. In Trump's second term, which we were only about a year into when Professor Haas released this data, he had granted 49 white collar pardons, about 55% of the total. This analysis, by the way, excludes people that Trump pardoned for the January 6th insurrection at the Capitol and the fake elector scam.

Caleb Newquist: [00:06:46] So those aren't even included here. But for those 49 white collar pardons. Here's what makes them unique. It's the difference in the amount of fines, forfeitures, and restitution that is forgiven. Thanks to those pardons. Liz Oyer is a former pardon attorney at the Department of Justice, and on her Substack, she has been tracking the pardons and their cost, which is more than $1.5 billion. This has included stories that we've covered on the show, namely OZY Media and Carlos Watson and Trevor Milton. In Milton's case, it was over $660 million that was forgiven. President Trump's use of his clemency powers has been the subject of many stories in the media, including in-depth reporting by The New York Times, 60 minutes. The Campaign Legal Center, and many others. In short, no president in U.S. history has approached this absolute and unique power quite like Trump has. It's raised a lot of questions, including whether or not reforms are needed. So today on the show we look at three stories, the first being about Paul Walchuk that you just heard of people who either pleaded guilty or were convicted of fraud crimes and then later pardoned by President Trump. Act one good work, if you can pardon it. In 2022, the former governor of Puerto Rico, Wanda Vazquez Garced, was charged with engaging in a bribery scheme that was alleged to have occurred from December 2019 through June 2020. What was the scheme? Let me tell you.

Caleb Newquist: [00:08:41] You see, in 2019, Puerto Rico's office of the Commissioner of Financial Institutions, which oversees financial institutions operating in Puerto Rico was looking into a bank called Credito Bank. Credito was founded and owned by Julio Martin Herrera. That's kind of fun. All right, but who is this guy? All right. Again, I'm going to tell you he's an Italian Venezuelan billionaire of the Herrera Velutini family, a dynasty whose wealth dates back to the 14th century. Yeah, that is old. That is old money. How old is it that money is so old it can't talk or walk. But why would it? It's got people for that. That money is so old. Robin hood stole some of it. That money is so old it retired and moved to Florida before there was a Florida. And our man Julio, he undeniably has that old money look thing going on. I know we don't do video anymore, but if you just take a second to Google him, or you can go to the show notes and click one of the New York Times articles about this story. You will see what I mean. This guy is impeccably dressed and groomed. He's wearing very dark sunglasses and has a look that can only be understood as resting rich face. Here's the look of a man who has never opened a door or held an umbrella in his entire life. He is definitely one of those guys who buys a yacht for his Maltese.

Caleb Newquist: [00:10:32] Anyway, so we've got Puerto Rico's financial regulator looking into Herrera Velutini Bank. And so what's a billionaire banker with centuries of family plutocracy behind him going to do? He's going to bribe somebody. Of course. Allegedly, in this case, the alleged bribe is Wanda Vazquez Garced. She became governor of Puerto Rico in August 2019 after her predecessor, Ricardo Rossello, resigned in the wake of a scandal known as Telegramgate. Of course. Telegramgate. I don't have time to complain about the gate suffix. Anyway, we. And we also do not have time to get into this case, but very. Basically, this was a scandal. When telegram messages from a massive group chat that included Rossello and members of his cabinet and political team were leaked. Okay. It was all pretty standard racist, homophobic bro bullshit, which is, you know, bad enough. But what really upset people is that these guys were making jokes about the number of people who died due to Hurricane Maria that devastated Puerto Rico in 2017. And so, yeah, pretty crass, tasteless. And people were pissed. And after the messages came out, there was nearly two weeks of protest that followed in Puerto Rico. And then, you know, that led Rocio to finally resign. A guy by the name of Pedro Pierluisi. He was the secretary of State. And the next in line of succession. So after the resignation, he was sworn in to be the next governor of Puerto Rico.

Caleb Newquist: [00:12:30] But he had already served for five whole days. And there was a problem. And which was the Puerto Rican Senate had not confirmed him by the time of his swearing in. And so he was ordered removed by the Puerto Rican Supreme Court. The Secretary of Justice was the next in line of succession, and that person was Wanda Vazquez Garced. And so she became governor of Puerto Rico. Got it. Okay. And look, this is a hunch, but I'm guessing that none of this mattered to Julio Herrera. Velutini. He just wanted somebody in there who could help him with this financial regulator problem that was, you know, causing trouble for his bank. According to prosecutors, when Vazquez Garced decided to run for governor because, remember, she just succeeded an empty seat, right? She decided to run for governor. Herrera Velutini, an associate, paid $300,000 to political consultants supporting her campaign. Okay. In February 2020, Vazquez Garced asked that regulator to resign, and a few months later, she appointed someone who prosecutors alleged had been hand-picked by Herrera Velutini. Now, if you're not familiar, this is a classic case or again, alleged case, I should say, of quid pro quo, something for something, right? Fast forward to 2022, and Vazquez Garced is arrested for her role in the scheme, and Herrera Velutini was also charged and a couple other coconspirators who pleaded guilty at that time. Ultimately, there were months of negotiations. Vazquez Garced and Herrera Velutini both agreed to plead guilty to a misdemeanor campaign finance charge in August of 2025.

Caleb Newquist: [00:14:49] Okay. The New York Times reported that career prosecutors were very disappointed with this result, as they were seeking harsher sentences. But guess what? It got worse. In January 2026, just a couple of weeks before sentencing for Vazquez Garced and Herrera Velutini, they were miraculously granted pardons by President Trump. So what happened here? Absolutely nothing. If you were to ask Wanda or Julio or their representatives. The statement from Christopher Kise, that's Julio Herrera Velutini, his attorney. He said this. Quote. Mr. Herrera Velutini is profoundly grateful to President Donald J. Trump for bestowing the grace of his benevolent pardon, and looks forward to moving on with his life and dedicating his time to his family and career. Fun fact Christopher Kise, the guy who said those words or gave those words to the New York Times to be put in the paper. Christopher Kise also acted as Donald Trump's defense attorney when he was facing criminal charges for retaining classified documents. Man. What? That is a coincidence. And gosh, I love I love coincidences, don't you? Oh, I love coincidences. But it gets better. So much better. In October 2026, the New York Times reported more details around this. First thing we learned is that Herrera Velutini daughter, Isabella Herrera, had donated $3.5 million to Maga Inc., a superPAC tied to Donald Trump. Something else fun about Isabella. The Campaign Legal Center reported that she also had pledged $2.5 million to the Trump Ballroom project after her father's plea deal.

Caleb Newquist: [00:16:50] But prior to all of this, her only known political donation was $20 to Pete Buttigieg. Yeah, 20 bucks. Wealth since the 14th century, but 20 bucks to Mayor Pete. All right. Now, we have seen other cases where donating to political organizations connected to President Trump have inexplicably resulted in clemency. Trevor Milton, for example, episode 113. Right. But even after $2.5 million pledged for the ballroom and 3.5 million donated to the super PAC. No pardon. But then finally, we learned that yet another defense lawyer who had worked for Donald Trump, Alina Habba, got a job working for Julio Herrera Velutini, well, technically working for his daughter, Isabella. And it was it was a good job, a very good job. She was hired to be the general counsel of a company called Concord Partners. What's Concord Partners? The times reports, quote, the company has no public profile and its business remains unclear even to some people associated with the Herrera business empire. Okay. So nobody seems to know what the company is for. But The Times did report a few notable things about this job that was given to Alina Habba. First, it was a four year contract for $10 million a year and. There were bonuses putting the total pay package around $50 million. That's pretty good. That's a lot. That's that's decent money, I think.

Caleb Newquist: [00:18:50] Right. The company, The Times reports, was set up in Florida in October 2025. So pretty recent and perhaps best of all, quote, Miss Harbor finalized her deal days after the company was registered. While she was still serving as U.S. attorney in New Jersey. Weird. Wow. Sorry. Before we go too far, if you don't know who Elena Harbor is, remember, she's a defense attorney, former defense attorney for Donald Trump, uh, who had a really astonishingly unremarkable career until she met Donald Trump in 2021. It was that year that she started representing him in various capacities. Her main strength being that she would do whatever Donald Trump wanted her to do. This mostly consisted of filing numerous lawsuits, including some big ones against Hillary Clinton and a slew of other people related to the 2016 presidential election, and another against The New York Times, three of its reporters and Trump's own niece, Mary Trump. Now, I know this is going to come as a bit of a shock, but she didn't win either of those cases. Uh, yeah. So not great outcomes, you know? But, um, you know, she also led the defense in one of Trump's, uh, defamation trials, the one of involving e Jean Carroll. Uh, that one ended in a $83 million verdict for Carroll. So again, not a great result. And in fact, Alina Habba and Donald Trump were even sanctioned nearly $1 million for filing a frivolous bad faith lawsuit. That was the one against Hillary Clinton and the other political people.

Caleb Newquist: [00:20:53] So I don't think I'm overstating it to say that Alina Haba is a terrible lawyer. She's essentially Lionel Hutz with Mar a Lago face. Nevertheless, after the 2024 election, Trump appointed Alina Habba as the interim U.S. attorney for new Jersey in the hopes that she would become the actual U.S. attorney for new Jersey. However, the Senate didn't even put her to a vote. Despite this, she was kept on as the acting U.S. attorney. All these things mean different things. We don't have time to get into it. But yes, she was interim and now she is acting. But she had very limited because she was acting. She had very limited authority in the role. That's my understanding. So much so that a judge eventually ruled that she was serving in the role unlawfully. Imagine that. Okay. An appeals court agreed with this ruling. And so she was essentially kicked out of office in December of 2025. But as we came to learn, things turned around very quickly. On January 1st, 2026, she started her job as general counsel at Concord Partners. And a few weeks after that, Julio Herrera Velutini, as well as Wanda Vazquez Garced got their full and unconditional pardons. Then Alina Haba married a Turkish businessman, Turhan Mildon, who claims to be a billionaire. That is a comeback. Whew. In response to the New York Times reporting. I mean, she's going by Hamilton now, I guess, in what I've seen.

Caleb Newquist: [00:22:47] But she said, quote, any insinuation that my employment, all of which has been vetted and disclosed to the DOJ, had anything to do with securing a pardon is false. Okay. Noted. But what's kind of funny is that Donald Trump wasn't too happy when he heard about how much money she was going to make after its initial story, The times reported just again about a week later, quote, angered at the size of Mrs. Maldon's deal. Mr. Trump has told aides and allies that she should donate a portion of that money to his future presidential library or another Trump related entity, according to multiple people briefed on the conversations. Okay. I'm sure there's nothing but good things ahead for her. Everything always works out for Donald Trump's lawyers. Just look at Rudy Giuliani. Oh, and the billionaire who got the pardon, Julio Herrera velutini. Obviously, he's going to be fine. Act two. This is double jeopardy. Well maybe not. In January 2021, as Donald Trump was preparing to leave the white House, he granted clemency to a California businesswoman named Adriana Shiota. Adriana had been convicted of participating in an operation that manufactured and distributed millions of bottles of counterfeit five hour energy. And we'll get we'll get to her in a moment. But first, a little background on five hour energy. Now, if you've ever been inside a gas station, a bodega, or a college dorm room on a dry campus, you've seen this.

Caleb Newquist: [00:24:43] Those tiny bottles of extremely concentrated caffeine that promise you to keep you awake for five hours. Anyway, back to 2009. Adriana and her then husband, Joseph Shiota, had a business called Baja Exporting, and they had a deal with Living Essentials, the company behind Five Hour Energy. The deal was pretty straightforward. Living essentials would supply them with five hour energy products and they would distribute those products in Mexico. The bottles even came with Spanish language labels. There was just one problem. The coyotes apparently weren't having much luck selling their energy drinks in Mexico. But they did have an idea. What if instead of selling the drinks in Mexico, they just sold them in the United States? Now, you might be wondering, why would that be a problem? After all the drinks were real, they weren't stolen. They're just being sold in a different country. Well, the whole reason the coyotes had access to these products was because they were supposed to be distributing them in Mexico. Under that arrangement, they could acquire the drinks and resell them in the United States at a price below what Living essentials was charging American distributors. Right. They were undercutting the company because they had a deal to sell them in Mexico, not the United States. Got it. Okay. Unfortunately, American consumers weren't exactly lining up to purchase tiny bottles covered in Spanish, so the coyotes and their associates started removing the Spanish labels and replaced them with counterfeit English labels.

Caleb Newquist: [00:26:43] They also removed the original lot numbers and expiration dates and replaced them with fake ones. And it worked. They managed to repackage more than 350,000 bottles of five hour energy. The real stuff. The good stuff. I don't know, maybe not the good stuff, but the real stuff. But eventually they ran out of the real stuff. And this is where the story takes a turn. Because rather than find another legitimate supplier, they decided to start making their own. Five hour energy. That's right. Bootleg. Five hour energy. According to federal prosecutors, the conspirators manufactured their counterfeit energy drinks in an unsanitary facility where untrained day laborers mixed unregulated ingredients in plastic vats. Plastic vats. Now, I don't know about you, but when I think about big plastic vats, I think of one of two things. First, dissolving bodies in acid. And second, Walter White cooking meth. Neither of which I want to associate with the beverage that I'm about to consume. And they just didn't slap some homemade labels on the bottles, either. They had a plastics manufacturer in Mexico produce counterfeit bottles and caps. They ordered more than 7 million counterfeit label sleeves and hundreds of thousands of display boxes, all designed to look like the genuine product. By the time the operation was uncovered, more than 3.7 million counterfeit bottles had entered interstate commerce. Millions of bottles of something that looked like five hour energy, but was actually some mystery energy hooch that was mixed together in plastic vats.

Caleb Newquist: [00:28:39] In November 2016, Adriana and Joseph were convicted of conspiracy to traffic in counterfeit goods and related offenses. Joseph received a sentence of 86 months in prison. Adriana got 26 months. She began serving that sentence in December 2019, and that would seem to be the end of the story. Except, of course, this is an episode about pardons. And so on January 19th, 2021, Donald Trump commuted Adriana's prison sentence. Now, a commutation is slightly different than a pardon. It reduces or ends a punishment, usually a prison sentence where a pardon forgives the offense okay. Usually before a person reports for prison, like in the case of Trevor Milton or after someone has already been released from prison and they are forgiven for that crime that put them there regardless. Adriana had received presidential clemency, which is, you know, a pretty extraordinary thing to have happen to you. And so you might think that this would be just a good opportunity for someone with such extraordinary good fortune to reassess their life, their business practices, perhaps consider a career change, maybe something a little less fraught adjacent. And to Adriana's credit, she did change businesses, sort of. You see. Adriana had a brother named Andres Cabreros, and while she was serving her prison sentence, Andres made a $50,000 donation to a political committee supporting Donald Trump's reelection. Now, whether that donation played any role in Adriana receiving clemency, we don't know.

Caleb Newquist: [00:30:40] And as it turns out, by that point, Adriana and Andres had another business venture, one whose operations federal prosecutors traced back to January 2019, nearly a year before Adriana even reported to prison. Adriana and her brother, Andres Sombreros controlled several wholesale distribution companies, including Baja Exporting Specialty Foods International and Baja Food Service. And they had developed a pretty lucrative system for buying groceries and other consumer products at substantial discounts. Remember the whole five hour energy arrangement. How those products were sold at a discount because they were supposed to be distributed in Mexico instead of the United States. Same basic idea. Only this time, instead of energy drinks, they were dealing in groceries and other consumer goods. And they didn't just tell manufacturers the products were going to Mexico. They also claimed to supply correctional facilities and rehabilitation centers. In fact, some of their businesses operated under names like Prison Food Depot and Rehab Food Depot. According to prosecutors, the Cabrero siblings weren't doing business with prisons or rehab centers. They were buying discounted merchandise and reselling it to American distributors at higher prices, sometimes to the very same distributors the manufacturers were already supplying. So the manufacturers were effectively competing against their own discounted merchandise. Not great. Not ideal. And the Cabrera siblings were collecting the difference. Good deal for them, obviously. And this was not a small operation between January 2019 and September of 2023. Two of their companies generated more than $58 million in gross profits.

Caleb Newquist: [00:32:43] Adriana received more than $12 million from Baja Exporting, and Andrés paid himself more than $14 million from Specialty Foods International. Now, here's my favorite part. Eventually, some manufacturers began asking questions. They wanted proof that their products were actually being sold in Mexico. Perfectly reasonable request, I think. Right. So the Cabrera's arranged visits to stores in Tijuana. And during these visits, the manufacturers representatives could see their products sitting right there on the shelves, just as promised, except the siblings had arranged for those products to be placed in the stores ahead of the visits. The stores themselves were real, but the merchandise had been strategically placed there to make it look like the companies were actually distributing products in Mexico. And apparently that wasn't convincing enough because, according to prosecutors, the Cabreras also hired models to stand near the merchandise models. Now I have questions like, what exactly were these models doing? Were they pretending to shop or were they just standing there looking attractive next to boxes of cereal, like on The Price is Right? I mean, I understand staging a store to make it look like your products are being sold there, but why do you need the models? Was someone worried that the grocery store wasn't sexy enough. Very confusing. And the stage supermarket tours weren't their only trick. The siblings maintained a fake office in Mexico City to meet with manufacturers. And they also obtained Mexican customs documents to support their claims about exporting products.

Caleb Newquist: [00:34:40] They even removed GPS tracking devices from manufacturers shipments, so the companies couldn't follow where their products were actually going. They were running an elaborate operation to convince companies that merchandise intended for Mexico was actually ending up in Mexico. And business was good. It was very good. The siblings purchased or financed a Ferrari F12 Berlinetta. If you've seen one of those, it's a it's very it's a very nice looking car. It's a coupe. If you like coupes, you know. And it's Ferrari. It's nice. A Lamborghini Huracan, multiple Range Rovers homes in the San Diego area, and a beachfront condominium in Coronado. And look, I don't know why you need multiple places to live in one particular metro area, but apparently that's what they did. That's what the research shows. Okay. I don't know. But eventually the whole thing unraveled as these things tend to do. In October 2024, a federal jury convicted Adriana and Andres on eight counts each, including conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud and seven counts of wire fraud. Adriana was sentenced to a year and a day in prison, plus an additional two months for violating the terms of her supervised release from the earlier case. Andres received a sentence that included a year of home detention. Both were ordered to pay approximately $48.8 million in restitution. And here's the really interesting part. Remember this second operation was already underway before Adriana received her first grant of presidential clemency.

Caleb Newquist: [00:36:28] But it didn't stop after she was released. In fact, one of the wire fraud offenses for which she was convicted occurred just 42 days after her commutation. 42 days. That's six weeks. That's roughly the length of a A. Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez's reconciliation. So let's recap. Adriana was convicted in a counterfeit energy drink conspiracy. President Trump commuted her prison sentence. She was subsequently convicted of participating in a completely separate multimillion dollar fraud scheme and received another prison sentence. So what happened next? On January 15th, 2026, Donald Trump granted Adriana Cabreros a full and unconditional pardon. And this time he pardoned her brother, too. Two fraud cases, two convictions, two grants of presidential clemency. I don't know what kind of loyalty program they're running out of the white House, but apparently Adriana had enough points for the family plan. Huh? All right, so did we learn anything? I mean, sure, crime pays for some people anyway. Especially, I think it's fair to say in this political era. Fraud, corruption. You know, this is something that we've always had to deal with, and frankly, we always will. But I think what these stories raise particular questions. Uh, first off, what comes to mind is like, what is corruption? How do we define it as a society and then again legally. And do we know it when we see it? Do people know when they're doing it right? I remember asking David Sirota this question back on episode 106, and this is what he said.

Speaker 3: [00:38:32] When I use the term corruption, what I generally mean is it's something that interferes with how a system is supposed to work. In specific, how a democratic institution is supposed to work. Corruption specifically, is usually money. I mean, you can call it political power, but the fuel of political power is money. So the public generally wants lower priced prescription drugs. The public generally, according to polls, overwhelmingly thinks it's not fair that the same medicine costs 50% or 75% less in Canada. The corruption of the process is that money nonetheless made sure that the public will was not expressed in the law. That is to me, you know it when you see it, that now that is legal corruption, right? We are a deeply and have been a deeply corrupt political system, but we have legalized it.

Caleb Newquist: [00:39:44] Now, a follow up question to this might be, okay, but what's corruption and what's just two people doing business? What are the what's the distinction to be made between those two things? And I think this is where political power comes in. Again, the law defines corruption and legislatures write the law. Well, sort of you know, the whole schoolhouse Rock thing left some parts out, but in reality, legislation is heavily, heavily influenced. I think it's fair to say by corporate interests and corporations are going to do what's in the best interest of corporations and the people who control them. Okay. Do me a favor. Say this ten times before bed every night. Got it. All right. After the laws are passed that define certain activities to be legal, regardless of whether they should be or not, corporations have armies of compliance professionals to make sure that they don't run afoul of these rules. Regular people. You, me, Zack, 99% of the rest of the country. We do not have the means to influence legislation this way. Okay. And therefore, we don't have much say in what corruption is. And another follow up question people might have is what's the harm? Who's actually being hurt here? I wasn't going to see any of that money anyway. And I think what we all need to remember is that if in David Sirota's example, we're paying way more for prescription drugs than we need to, that negatively affects a whole lot of people. Virtually everyone that isn't fraud in the classic.

Caleb Newquist: [00:41:41] You deceived me out of money sense kind of way. It's more the slow, methodical, baked in fraud that he and I talked about in that conversation. You know, there's there's no there's no bag of money. Do me a favor, kind of fraud, although, you know, there's plenty of that going on, too. It's way downstream of that. The money bag is small potatoes compared to what will come back to the persons or organizations who are doling out the money. And if it's all according to the law, then it's very difficult to change those laws because again, of political power. Okay. But beyond that, this was a show about the power of executive clemency and how it's used. I think, in the Trump era, what we've seen is that people with wealth, status and influence are being prioritized for clemency, pardons, commutations, etc.. Uh, the spectrum of what you think of this can vary from, I would say at best, these are people who have access to Trump or people and organizations with ties to him, and there's not much we can do. And I think at worst, maybe not at worst, but pretty bad. These are political favors being doled out in some kind of quid pro quo that takes the form of financial donations or something else. And so of course, this raises lots of questions, like when it comes to clemency, who deserves it? People who have been wrongly convicted or targeted, people who can't afford the type of representation to fight unjust or excessive punishment, or people who simply know the right people or can afford to pay people who know the right people.

Caleb Newquist: [00:43:37] And if it's the latter, are we really okay as a society, when people seemingly buy their way out of trouble, buy their way out of accountability? And do we want our political leaders to use their power this way to benefit the wealthy and well connected? And if the answer is yes, is that really the kind of country we want to continue living in? That's it for this episode. And remember, if you're a fraudster hoping for a pardon. Better get your mom called. If you have questions, comments, or suggestions for stories, drop us a line at Oh My Dollar! at cpe.com. This episode of Oh My Fraud is written by me, Caleb Newquist and Zach Frank. All My fraud is created, produced and hosted by me, Caleb Newquist. Zach Frank is my co producer, audio engineer, and music supervisor. Laura Hobs designed the logo. Rate, review and subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you listen on earmark, you can get CPE. As of this recording. Time is running out for this year 2026. So start freaking out. That's what you need to do. Freak out. That's all that's always. That's the only thing that helps. It always helps. Yeah. Join us next time for more avarice, swindlers and scams from stories that will make you say, oh my fraud.