Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Power Shift: Women Redefining Leadership After 40
On Power Shift, Sandra sits down with women who have redefined leadership after 40 and now lead at the top of their fields. Through honest, unscripted conversations, they share the turning points, mindset shifts and hard-won lessons that took them to the top. Season 1, The Inflection Point, is about the moment that changed everything, and how they pivoted.
Every episode leaves you with real insight to own your power, at any stage.
Your host, Sandra Colhando, is Co-Founder of TransforMe Learning, a global leadership firm. Architect of EVOLVE, an award-winning women’s leadership program trusted by global giants. Two-time TEDx speaker. She doesn’t interview. She becomes a confidante.
Subscribe to catch every conversation.
Hello and welcome to Power Shift. I am Sandra Colhando and if you found this show something from your life has probably brought you here. Maybe you are navigating your forties, building something, wondering what comes next. Maybe you're watching someone you respect go through it and want to understand what they're carrying. Maybe you're years away and want to see what's coming.
Sandra Colhando:Wherever you're listening from, we hope that you find value at the end of this conversation and have some takeaways to help you become a stronger version of yourself. Season one is called the inflection point, and every guest in this season has lived through a moment that cracked everything open. Please help me welcome Tiffanie Mallard, who is joining us from Singapore. She's the vice president of human resources at Carrier HVAC, which is one of Carrier's largest and most geographically complex business and is among the first few women of color leading teams across Asia Pacific, Middle East and the Africa segment.
Tiffanie Mallard:Thank you for having me.
Sandra Colhando:So excited, Tiffanie. I have so many interesting conversations to have with you, but I do want to share with our listeners the uniqueness that you bring today. So a year ago, Tiffanie moved across geography. She's moved from The US and moved to Singapore right now like I did. I left India and moved to Australia about eight years ago.
Sandra Colhando:We've also spoken about the experience of building a life in a place where social norms and histories and lived experiences around you can feel a bit unfamiliar. So we'd be packing a little bit of that in our conversation today. It's a journey of adaptation. It's a journey of identity and finding your footing while staying true to who you are. But the story that anchors everything for Tiffanie began much earlier.
Sandra Colhando:And as a teenager in high school, a guidance counselor had given her mother advice. And that was a turning point for you, Tiffanie, I believe. And we'll unpack that story real quick. But before we do that, I want to formally welcome you in Power Shift. We'll be talking about how women are redefining leadership after 40.
Tiffanie Mallard:Thank you, Sandra. Very much excited to be here and to share a little bit about my journey. Hopefully it will resonate with others, but if it doesn't, I hope that it will give you something to think about when you're engaging with other women in the workplace.
Sandra Colhando:Absolutely. It helped me to think about a lot of the conversation that we've had and had a couple of stories that I went back to Tiffanie and I want to share that in today's podcast as well, where I saw us in the same moment of crisis move in different directions. So I can't wait to unpack those stories as well. Before we do that, what would you invite our listeners or share with our listeners that they can expect to take away from our conversation today?
Tiffanie Mallard:Good question. I think maybe two things. One is hopefully you realize that I am what you see. So one of the things that I think makes me uniquely me is that I try to be authentic in all that I do. I try to be transparent.
Tiffanie Mallard:I am someone who learns by observing, but I'm also someone that believes in giving back to others. So they don't have to necessarily make the mistakes that I've made, but also they can learn from the good and accelerate more quickly. And then hopefully you have some fun. I think life is about balancing all the hard work that you put in with the whimsy and the adventure and making salient memories.
Sandra Colhando:I couldn't agree with you more Tiffanie. I don't know stories make people's characters and I want us to start with that trigger point for you, that counselor's advice that gave you that inflection moment of building the woman, the leader that you are right now?
Tiffanie Mallard:So, yeah, one of the things that I think we talked about when we first met was, you know, what was the moment in time where you decided, you know what, I want more. I'll share very quickly, grew up in Seattle, Washington, grew up playing sports, soccer or football, depending on where you are in the world, basketball and softball. And so, I would say I was a really good athlete. Wasn't necessarily the best student. And at the time, I'm not sure that I really understood the connection between academics and what you may become in the future or what people may think of you in the future.
Tiffanie Mallard:But at that time, approaching my senior year, a lot of my friends were pursuing college. They were applying to college. And I grew up in a household where my mother wanted me to graduate high school. I was told, You go to school, you go to work. But she didn't necessarily press university or college.
Tiffanie Mallard:But the people around me were going and I didn't want to be left behind. And so in preparing and planning, one of my high school counselors shared with my mother that, you know, that's not going be possible for Tiffanie. She doesn't have the grades, she doesn't have the extracurricular activities that are going to make her stand out. And so you really should put her in the direction of maybe going to a community college. And for me, hearing that from my mother, it did two things.
Tiffanie Mallard:One, I was embarrassed because I felt like I had embarrassed her and I hadn't put my best foot forward, but I also didn't like it. I don't like when people tell me what I can't do. And I believed in that moment that it was my job to prove her wrong and to show that regardless of what I'd done in the past, what was in front of me could be more if I put my foot forward and if I focused. And so that was the catalyst for me applying to school, going to college fairs, ultimately getting my bachelor's degree and my master's degree. And I also made it a point to go back to my high school and to talk to that counselor and to talk to teachers about worms have power and they have the power to motivate, but they also have the power to demotivate.
Tiffanie Mallard:And in my case, I was blessed that it motivated me and I decided to prove them wrong, but also to remember that everybody doesn't necessarily make that choice.
Sandra Colhando:What a powerful story, Tiffanie. And I could really resonate with the moment where you said that you came from a place and I also came from a similar background where not too many people around me went to college In fact, I was one of the first few in my family to get into college and for me that was such a big achievement just getting into and doing that and I wanted to share a bit about my life which went in a different direction for you when you talk about your trigger it was somebody said that you're probably not built for it and that could have gone either way either you would have just believed what they said and really went down that rabbit hole or you just pushed through and said no that's not my narrative I'm going to build my own narrative and I pushed through and that's my fuel to build who I am I had something but not from an external lens It was more from an internal lens I was around 21 when I was working in a corporate job it was a big American company as well One of my mentors came up to me and said that you know I think you have a trainer or coach inside you and I think you do really well-being a coach so why don't you apply for this internal job posting that come up?
Sandra Colhando:And I was only 21. I just started working and remember my background is, you know, in my circle, not too many went to college. So me going to college and then working in American company in India, I felt I was on top of the world. So at 21, yes, I can be a trainer too. And then I'm preparing for all of that.
Sandra Colhando:And then suddenly I find out that one of the interview on the interview panel, we had a very well known L and D personnel sitting there and she was an alpha woman in my eyes. And I just melted and that moment undid for me I just went into HR took my application, withdrew it and before anyone could reject me I rejected myself so I didn't apply and then it took me thirteen years of working in different roles to figure out what my calling was and incidentally training and coaching. So I kind of looped back what was handed to me in my lap when I was 21, find that calling at 33 and do that. In this whole process, lost thirteen years. But the thirteen years gave me a big lesson that the biggest critic in this world can be you.
Sandra Colhando:And you can bring yourself down. You don't need to wait for the world to do that. And what I heard in your story is you hear people bringing yourself down, you push through and the work that I did was I believed myself which you know in all cases may not be the best advice you should be taking. And you have to kind of reflect on that whole journey. Why do you think that there is this difference happening between receiving feedback from external and pushing through and proving others wrong.
Sandra Colhando:But when you receive feedback for yourself or you reflect yourself, you tend to believe that and pull yourself lower than what you would eventually are meant to be.
Tiffanie Mallard:You know, I think that's a really good question. As you were telling your story, I was also playing back my own loop because I would tell you I'm probably my biggest critic, right? And so I think there's this juxtaposition between how you see yourself and how you see other people, I think, or how other people see you, I should say. I think for me the difference is I think I'm comfortable putting limits on myself, right? Because I think I know myself the most and you're in your head all the time, you are carrying the burden of yourself, the burden of your friends, your family, in our cases, the legacy and the potential in some cases.
Tiffanie Mallard:People don't know that externally, but that's an added barrier for you to say, Can I really do this? Because if I don't, I'm not just disappointing myself, I'm disappointing other people. So I think that comes to play when women, and maybe men as well, but when you are becoming your own critic, you have the seen and unseen barriers that you have to work through and you have to decide, are you willing to take that risk? I think for me personally, the external factors I may push against a bit more because again, I think in my resolve, I believe in seeing the potential in other people, so I have a very hard time telling someone what they can't do. And so when people choose to say that to me or to other people, I take it very personal because again, my story is I know how I felt in that moment, and thankfully something in me said, Push through.
Tiffanie Mallard:But I know everybody doesn't do that, and by the way, everybody can't do that based on their background and experiences. So that's a form of advocacy for me and I think you have to model it for other people to feel comfortable doing that for themselves as well.
Sandra Colhando:I agree. So what I hear you say it's also situational. You want to look at how ready that person is put them in that scenario in that situation where you can gently push them or check-in with them and give them that space to figure out what they're meant to do in those challenges well Now you would have done a lot of that yourself Tiffanie to reach where you are from where you've come and that journey has been fantastic Being the only one in the room and I want to shift our conversation How do you build that? How do you walk into a room where you are different? You come from a different background, you look different How do you navigate different identities in that space?
Sandra Colhando:And not talking about leadership right now. I'm just talking about say for example, you move into a new geography. How do you pick those identities? How do you feel understood? How do you understand?
Sandra Colhando:How do you react to people's assumptions and then create a life in a new place?
Tiffanie Mallard:So I would say, you know, one, I am a black American woman. And so it is very visible in how I present. So I also know that depending on where you are in the world, your experiences with Black women, you may one, never have had any, but two, you may not have experiences that I would say are necessarily positive. I think the benefit for me is I grew up in a very diverse environment. So I'm from Seattle, Washington.
Tiffanie Mallard:I grew up with friends, I'd say across the spectrum. I've played sports with white children, black children, Asian children, Hispanic children. So for me, humanity is humanity. And so while I know that I may present in a way that people have stigmas or beliefs, I try to enter into every situation looking at the person. Now, not naive enough to say that color doesn't exist, experience doesn't exist, but I also know at our core, we all want to belong.
Tiffanie Mallard:We all want to relate. And so I think I lead with that. I try to see people for who they are and acknowledge them as human. And I show my human side as well. So I'm not Tiffanie, the leader.
Tiffanie Mallard:I'm not Tiffanie, the wife. I'm Tiffanie. And I try to show that to people.
Sandra Colhando:And that's beautiful. And how do you set the how do you set a home for yourself? So when you move geographies and if you move with your company it's great you have some setup or structure but you're shifting homes, you're shifting neighbors, your friends, you're building all of that again. What advice would you give somebody who's doing that for the first time? What are the first few things they can do to call that home?
Tiffanie Mallard:I think the first thing you have to think about is what are the things that bring you joy? So when I think of home, I think of comfort, so I think of food. So I always try to find what's the local cuisine, try to find new restaurants to get out and do things that make me feel good. I think two, again, finding a sense of community. So whether it's you connecting with coworkers, whether it's connecting with neighbors, I've had the benefit of traveling places and meeting community through apps like WhatsApp and Facebook, but actually doing the work to reach out and put yourself out there.
Tiffanie Mallard:Because if you don't, I think you get lost. And that's when you miss out on the richness of the assignment or of where you are in that particular moment
Sandra Colhando:Beautiful! Tiffanie, you mentioned something that connected with me some time ago and I know you said that it came from a therapy session well and this was something that I was battling a decade ago which is the concept of wanting more as well as enjoying what you have at the same time for me it's a paradox because for me in my mind wanting more is running, hustling, going for the next. It's a moving goal. I don't have an end goal and then enjoying where you are in my mind it's pause, it's gratitude, it's mindfulness. I'm just happy with what I have.
Sandra Colhando:I don't need any anything more. So how do you balance that? Because I feel I'm both. So how do you balance that sense of wanting, running, getting more, not being happy with what you have, not being satisfied with what you have, what you want, then being satisfied with what you have at the same time and pausing.
Tiffanie Mallard:No, I look, I think what I would say is I'm learning to balance. And I think it's I think it comes with the territory of being achievement oriented, right? Because I think when you talk about being successful, there's not a destination. So inherently, as far as you make it as many milestones, there's a part of you that says, But there has to be something else. There has to be more.
Tiffanie Mallard:And I think through therapy and talking to my community, what I realized one is without stopping and for lack of a better term smelling the roses, you really miss on on the beauty of the journey. So for me, I think I take very intentional pauses to reflect and to be thankful and to be proud of my accomplishments. I'm learning to prioritize rest because in that running and hustling, fatigue, right? I'm in my 40s. We talked a bit about your body changes in your 40s, your hormones change, you feel out of body experiences.
Tiffanie Mallard:And so running, running, running while ignoring that ends up depleting your energy. And so at times your body, your mind will force you to slow down. And I think maybe lastly is as I become an older leader, an older person, the reality of mortality has really hit me. People in my family have passed, I've seen friends pass, and I don't want to look back and I don't want to have people look at me and say, All she was was her career. All she was was chasing more rather than being appreciative and grateful for what she has.
Tiffanie Mallard:And so that's really touched me, I'd say, in the last two to three years where I've said, No, I have to make changes because that's important to me and my legacy for myself.
Sandra Colhando:I'm also trying to find that balance between paradox, the paradox between the two. And to be honest, I don't want to choose either I love both of them so I don't want to let go of both but trying to figure out I need what is more important and go with it
Tiffanie Mallard:Definitely I mean look I think the reality is that hustle has brought you to where you are, right? It's opened doors. It's helped you create the life that you have. So it would be disingenuous to say that we don't benefit from that. At the same time, I think, like you, I've had an opportunity to find things that bring me joy.
Tiffanie Mallard:Years ago, I would make candles and it was just the time of mixing the wax and mixing the fragrance and I would listen to music and that was my thing. My husband knew when I was doing that, leave her alone. I don't do that today, but in my travels and being in Asia, I have access to locations and destinations that I didn't in The US. So I find myself sneaking off on the weekend and going to places where I can sit and stare at the water and listen to the water. And it's very soothing and I don't need to do a lot, but I need to be, right?
Tiffanie Mallard:And be without distraction and be without having to think extensively. So for me, whatever it is, wherever you are in your journey, just realizing one, it's necessary, but two, you deserve.
Sandra Colhando:I love that word, you deserve it. And often we don't give permission to say that to ourselves that we deserve it we deserve that break That's so powerful Tiffanie Every time I go for a break I am guilty that I should be working or I should be with my family I don't deserve this break
Tiffanie Mallard:Someone's counting on you, right? I laugh, I put my cell phone away and I'm like, oh, I know somebody's emailing me. Or what if something happens? And the reality is yes to all of those things, but if you don't take care of you, you won't be there to be there for any of them. And I think that is the reminder.
Tiffanie Mallard:And I think often women overlook that because women are playing multiple roles. And in those roles, directly or indirectly, I think sometimes success is portrayed as sacrifice. And so you feel guilty when you're not sacrificing or when it doesn't feel hard or when you don't have regret. And I am trying to actively work against that because one, I don't think it's fair, but two, I also don't think it's accurate. I think just one thing with what he said around the disconnect, I think sometimes we believe that when something is uncomfortable, you have to fix it.
Tiffanie Mallard:And I have learned from experience, I've also had leaders tell me discomfort is healthy and it's not always your job to fix it. Sometimes you have to sit with the uncomfortable and move through. And I think it's the same thing when it comes to sacrifice and prioritization. You're not always going to get it right and you're not always going to please people when you're doing it. But if you come from the right place, that's what matters.
Tiffanie Mallard:Just do it.
Sandra Colhando:Beautiful. We're getting some things right, aren't we?
Tiffanie Mallard:Absolutely. We wouldn't be here if we weren't. And I think that goes back to sometimes being your most challenging critic is like you're always looking for what more you can do. And the reality is you're doing a good job.
Sandra Colhando:That's another thing somebody had said that when we are working and I had seen somebody speak somewhere and I just on LinkedIn sent her a one liner saying I heard you speak and you spoke really well we didn't know each other and then she reached out and we had this beautiful relationship after that and she says I don't often see women out of the blue send messages like that if they don't know each other admiring certain quality and for me that was something that I didn't intentionally do it I just saw it and it happened But after hearing her message that's become very intentional for me. So whenever I see something beautiful or some an achievement that another professional or women professional do it, I tend to send a message because I know what an impact that makes. And we don't have enough telling each other because we have so many doubts in our heads. We want to hear from outside that we're doing a good job. We deserve it.
Sandra Colhando:We're doing well. And that's pretty helpful. Now leading to power prototype. I love, love, love the word you said power. We talk about power and we talk about how do you find your power.
Sandra Colhando:And you use the word prototype. That's an Iron Man language. I'll turn that to how do we crack this code. So firstly, can you help explain how do you define what is power prototype for you?
Tiffanie Mallard:So when I think about power prototype, I think like a model, right? Like how you choose to show up, everything from how you talk to how you present. It's what is it about you in space, in this moment that gives you power, it gives you influence, it gives you space to occupy? And I think it varies from person to person. Protezite might be a little bit misleading because it almost makes you think like there's one, but the reality is there are many and I think the key is figuring out what yours is.
Sandra Colhando:And so can you walk us through how you identified and I'm sure this maybe is a thing that you stumble multiple times and figure out what your prototype is but now looking back with your decades of experience and the leader that you've created the space you've created the unique space in your industry how did you build your power prototype? What's the story in that journey?
Tiffanie Mallard:So I think I shared earlier, I learn a lot by observing. So my sister is thirteen years older than me. So I always had a big sister to look up to. And in the workplace, I kind of modeled that, whether it's through formal mentors, informal mentors. I tried to pick up on things that I really liked about leaders around me, and then maybe even the things that I didn't like and said, I don't want to be like that.
Tiffanie Mallard:With that, I also paid attention to the things that people told me I did uniquely well. And I think that's really critical to being or to figuring out what your kind of power prototype is or who you are as a leader. And what brought people back to me in the space of HR or even in the space of just being a colleague is, I one, I make people feel seen. So I am truly an authentic leader. I listen.
Tiffanie Mallard:I want to know you as a person. Two, I try not to be judgmental. So I know everyone has a story and a background. And so I don't lead with finality, I lead with options and I create the space to say there are options. I also lead in a way where I try to be inclusive and I want to make sure people are heard.
Tiffanie Mallard:And again, maybe going back a little bit to identity, I don't necessarily fit conventional norms of what leadership looks like. Again, I'm a black woman, I'm a darker skinned black woman. And with that, I had to be comfortable with the fact that that may make other people uncomfortable. We talked about our bright colors. I'm wearing red today.
Tiffanie Mallard:I am the one who will wear yellow in the workplace. My nails, I get them done and it's a huge part of who I am. And I don't let those things define me. I'm excellent at what I do. I just so happen to have these other attributes that make me unique.
Tiffanie Mallard:But the core of who I am is someone who cares about people, who believes in mutual respect, who wants employees, leaders, people to feel seen. And I believe in mutual success. And I think those are things that give me credibility with people because success is mutual and I'm not looking for what you can do for me it's more of what we can do for each other.
Sandra Colhando:I love the way how you found your prototype from your story of emulating the leaders you saw whether it your elder sister or the leaders in the organization and you didn't stop with just emulating the best ones you also figure out so the other step I'm looking at is one is emulate who you feel is a great leader and that's a great start point if you don't have experience The second step I'm hearing from you is start finding out what is your natural strengths and how do you find that is listen to what people talk about you. If you're not listening to that can you go ahead and ask them what do you think are my natural talents or my natural strengths And then you'll have words like care come in and inclusive come in and and that tells you that these are my natural leadership traits and that's how I build my prototype. And then you bring the stuff that you like. I love the ways you mentioned and I don't think many leaders look at that is how I might make my uniqueness uncomfortable to others that's beautiful I may look different and from the lens that we use in inclusion diversity is how do you make people who look different feel included You are turning the narrative as I could also make the majority uncomfortable right and how am I being conscious about that and yet not shying away the color I still want to bring in my bright colors.
Sandra Colhando:I still want to bring my nails in. I still want to bring whatever I wear. I just love that because early in my career I would suppress all of that. I would say let not my looks and my clothes be me I want to be known as all my professional skills a go getter, someone who gets things done who is confident and so let none of other aspects dilute it But what you are saying is embrace it. You love it.
Sandra Colhando:It's not coming in the way of your work and your skills you are who you are embrace of all you and that is your unique prototype
Tiffanie Mallard:I love it absolutely absolutely
Sandra Colhando:so have you do you have some steps of for somebody who's listening and who's trying to build that kind of prototype who's in the last couple of decades just gone through what we've been advised or what I've heard outside but how do I build my three step or four step approach of how do I build my own power prototype?
Tiffanie Mallard:I think you probably said it much more eloquently than I did. But I would say, you know, one is what does good look like for you? Right? So whether that's people who stand out, whether that's what you aspire to be and thinking about how you make that come to reality, I think that's important. So what does good look like to you and not necessarily to everyone else?
Tiffanie Mallard:Because I do think authentic leadership starts with you. I think maybe the second step in that is again talking about what are all of the things that you do well? People spend a lot of time asking for feedback and giving constructive feedback on what people could do better, which is important. But I tend to ask people, what is your superpower? What differentiates you from other people?
Tiffanie Mallard:Because you need to lead with that and lean into that just as much as you need to be aware of the things that you need to work on. I think the last piece, people who are powerful are people who are consistent and people who deliver because it creates credibility, it creates followership, and it creates an environment where people want to see you succeed because they know what to expect. It's not an unknown entity. It's not an unknown quality you have shown and proved that you deserve. And people want to be on winning teams, right?
Tiffanie Mallard:So if you can figure out what good looks like to you, if you can think about what makes you uniquely good or what makes you uniquely gifted and lean into that, not run and focus on all the things that you don't do well, because what you do well is what got you where you are today, and that's important. And then just to completely kill it, execute, build credibility, build followership and lean in. People will come to follow and support when they feel like you are genuine and you're authentic.
Sandra Colhando:I love that. I miss the bit about consistency, delivery and followship because that's what builds your power, your prototype where you can now create that legacy and pass on what you've learned and how do you make life easier for other leaders as well While you're sharing this Tiffanie I have a funny question in my mind I'm wondering should I?
Tiffanie Mallard:Go for it!
Sandra Colhando:If you were okay this is a fun question if you were to with whatever power prototype that you build yourself if you would identify that with a flower or an animal, what would that So, be and
Tiffanie Mallard:my initial answer is not really about me, but it's about a joke about a sloth. It is not a sloth, so let me lead. That's the first animal that comes to mind because I have a personal story. So I think honestly, a butterfly. And I think the reason that I lead with a butterfly is if you think about the butterfly's journey, right, of being in a cocoon, you have to grow within that cocoon and then at some point in time you blossom and you come out.
Tiffanie Mallard:And I think over time I have become more comfortable in my skin. I have become more comfortable articulating what I want to be and what I want to do, as well as what I don't want to be and what I don't want to do. And I'm okay with that. And I think a part of being powerful and leaning into your leadership is recognizing that there will be times when people are all on board and support, but there will also be times where people will challenge and they may not agree, And that's okay because I'm still going to be true to who I am. When I think about butterflies, again, I think about that journey, I think about the fact that their beauty isn't necessarily just in their patterns, that their beauty is about their journey and all that they went through to get to where they are.
Tiffanie Mallard:And they kind of bring joy to people. And I think when people see them, they get a feeling of happiness and euphoria. And I try to bring that to people too. So one of the things that I think my leader has told me is that I bring an energy into our team. My friends tell me that I bring an energy to them.
Tiffanie Mallard:My husband calls me sunshine. Now, sometimes there's the other side of that. But I think if my legacy with people is that I make them feel positively and feel like they can have won.
Sandra Colhando:Beautiful, I love that and it's so appropriate as well the journey from a cocoon caterpillar to a butterfly really depicts your journey. Now I have another one if you were to change into another animal or flower what would that be?
Tiffanie Mallard:You know, I might like to be a lion because number one, I think they're fierce and I would never describe myself as fierce. And so I think just the fact that lions innately people kind of stand a little bit taller and innately people know all of the regality that comes with them. I think it's beautiful. I think it's honorable. And I don't see myself in that light.
Tiffanie Mallard:Again, some of it is if you think about my background, I am first generation college student, so I've worked for the things that I have. And not that there's no honor in there, there absolutely is. But when I think about a lion, it's in you and people know day one and that wasn't my journey I
Sandra Colhando:want to pivot a little bit from our power prototype to social norms that we're used to and there are so many we can cover as women the social norms that we have cultured into but I want to pick on one particularly with you You did mention previously that you are the primary breadwinner in your house It's a very unique setup. It's an unspoken rule book where you know a husband's or the man's career comes first and the woman follows the career moment but for you it's been the other way around where you've moved with your career and your partner has supported you and continued his career with you. How have you and maybe some part of it is you're also speaking on behalf because how has it taken the two of you to rewrite those traditional roles in a marriage?
Tiffanie Mallard:You know, I won't say it was easy. What I will lead with is my husband is my partner. And I think we look at our marriage very much as a partnership, which has made it easier. But nonetheless, we both are also very, not willing say competitive, we have high aspirations, right? So it's required quite a bit of communication in terms of when we decide to say we're going to do this assignment or we're not going to do this assignment, what are the implications for his career just as much as my career.
Tiffanie Mallard:I think I'm blessed in having a partner that has maybe put out the noise outside because, again, society says that women should be following men, etc. And if he subscribed to that, I don't think I would be where I am today. And so I'm thankful for that. But I also am cognizant of the fact that he has sacrificed for me. So as I continue to grow, even with this assignment, we were very specific in what we agreed to in terms of time, in terms of what we would do while here, and then what does this mean for the next phase of our life?
Tiffanie Mallard:So that partnership component has been really important for us to navigate a space that's not always comfortable, but we've also learned to talk more openly and honestly about the good days, right? The days when I'm not traveling and we're able to explore together, or the tough days when I am traveling and it's like, well, you left me here, and giving space for that. Because going back to our earlier conversation on trying to fix it, I think initially I was trying to find ways to make him be like, oh, this is perfect, this is great. And it may not have been great, and that's actually okay. And you have to give him the space or I have to give him the space to navigate those feelings.
Sandra Colhando:And beautiful you called it partnership because it is a partnership you are going to go through ups and downs together and sometimes you give in and sometimes you give out and have that kind of negotiation as well What would you advise people who are listening? You could be a loan professional who is getting an amazing opportunity overseas but hasn't built that kind of relationship with a partner or hasn't exploded so far what could be the first few steps she could take or you could advise her to get into this kind of partnership that you have?
Tiffanie Mallard:Yeah I think the first thing I think is just to have an honest conversation. I think helping your partner understand what the opportunity means to you, right? What is it you're being presented with? How does it align with your goals? What does it do for you, but also what does it do for your family?
Tiffanie Mallard:Because I think that's important. I think not trying to rush the conversation and the reaction is really important in giving the space to process. The first time we moved, I had like forty eight hours to make a decision and he wasn't ready in forty eight hours. And so I remember going back to one of my leaders and saying, If we have to make a decision right now, the answer is no. And one, the good news is I had a leader who had empathy, I should say, and they gave me the space and we ended up moving, but I had to let him do his process, which was not with me.
Tiffanie Mallard:He talked to other people, right? He needed outside space and like, there's an element of being okay with that too, because it really is, at the time, you versus him because he's making a decision, does he choose himself over you? And the perception is you may be choosing yourself over him, but then always coming back to if we say yes or if we say no, we collectively own the outcome. It's not one person's responsibility.
Sandra Colhando:That's true. And I love the way you've talked about also giving them the space to make that decision because there could be a lot of insecurity when they're going independent and having the conversation. It can go either way and then you want to have the conversation with you because you have some control of the direction of where you want to take it but I think giving that space of you need that space you may want to consult others and I will be okay to continue this conversation after that I think that's important in a relationship I know Gathik and I both of us are business partners and life partners and we've had many conversations that will go either way but I think for us in whatever decisions we will take, will say there is one North Star which is our relationship and nothing can supersede that North Star. We may have disagreements, we may have opposite opinions, it may cost us time, space, money but it cannot overrule the North Star. That relationship is sacred and if any of this comes in that way then we both make the decision to let go of what that is.
Sandra Colhando:But it takes time to do that. It takes years and times and mutual respect more than love I would say that creates that space of what's important and how do we have that vision to have the conversation to make that happen too But thank you for sharing that Tiffanie because there are a lot of women and we are in a beautiful space right now where women are getting opportunities to build their careers in different geographies and sometimes these can be small things but they're important conversations to have to navigate and not be in a situation where you're giving up and you're sacrificing at the cost of descent. Beautiful Tiffanie time has just flown by I have just one last question for listeners if there were three things that you can unpack for them so women above 40 what are the three things who are entering this phase that they should be cognizant? If there's a lens around the power prototype, great, but what are three things according to you, we should look at while we're moving in this phase?
Tiffanie Mallard:Okay, so I think the first one is enjoying the ride. I think leading up into our 40s and our 20s and 30s it's all about hustle and getting it right and crafting this perfect narrative But don't forget to enjoy the ride, and particularly when you get into your 40s, I think remembering that you're actually more often than not going on the end game of your career because you've spent so much time building it. So how are you building legacy that you can look back on? I think the second thing would be to be true to yourself and in all facets of life. And so using your voice at work, at home with your partner, with your children, it's really important that you don't shrink and that you help people understand what's important to you and the phases of you because we do change.
Tiffanie Mallard:Again, we talked about hormones, talked about needs, we talked about where we give joy. If we don't articulate that, people won't know. And I think women in their 40s, and candidly women in general, we have to take our power and our voice and use it because people do listen. But it does require you to step into that. And then maybe last, would just say is remember that your journey is your journey alone, right?
Tiffanie Mallard:There is not a perfect road or a perfect destination. In fact, again, it's a journey. And so be comfortable with and exploring what you think is most important and what it will take for you to have that, whether it's the career in balancing, finding your whimsy or taking time, whether it's your children, whether it's your partner. I think remembering to live for you and your journey is as important as being there for other people. So those will be the things that I say, enjoy the journey, know what's most important for you and then make sure that you maintain and don't lose your voice.
Sandra Colhando:Beautiful, I love that. The way that you've kind of encapsulated the whole conversation of what we need to focus on in these three simple steps I think it's brilliant When you were talking about the last bit it's your journey alone Most of our lives we are looking into somebody else's lives what they are and how they've achieved or even my future life as well what I should be doing or what I lost and we miss out on that we have a unique DNA we have a unique fingerprint so if you have a unique DNA and fingerprint this is how you are designed by the universe Why are we comparing ourselves to others? Just strengthen that fingerprint, strengthen that DNA, create your own legacy and that's all you need to focus on just moving ahead. So powerful! Thank you, thank you so much, Tiffanie.
Sandra Colhando:This is exactly the kind of conversation Power Shift exists to have. Someone told you that you couldn't do it and you spend the rest of your life proving that there was a different answer. You didn't prove them wrong. Just kept going back to ensure that they never say that to anyone else. So for everyone listening, the version of you that gets underestimated early is often the version of you that ends up building the most because you refuse to accept that sealing someone has handed to you and even if that someone is you.
Sandra Colhando:So share this to a woman who was told she couldn't do it or she feels she can't do it and I will see you in the next episode. Thank you for listening.