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Technology's daily show (formerly the Technology Brothers Podcast). Streaming live on X and YouTube from 11 - 2 PM PST Monday - Friday. Available on X, Apple, Spotify, and YouTube.
The timeline has been in turmoil over the Brad Gerstner podcast with Satya Nadella and Sam Altman. The AI build out is so big, even a haunted house owner wants in. The co owner of Pennsylvania's Pennhurst Asylum has big plans for a data center. He's like Northwest.
Speaker 2:We gotta get through Halloween, and then I'm all in on AI.
Speaker 1:Halloween is
Speaker 2:We gotta get through spooky
Speaker 3:season.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's basically
Speaker 3:going all
Speaker 2:in. You ever been to a spirit Halloween, like, at, like, 6PM on Halloween? No. Is it packed? It's an absolute nightmare.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's probably crazy because
Speaker 2:people Because they let it get destroyed, basically. Like the employees are just like, alright, it's basically over.
Speaker 1:It's over.
Speaker 2:We're just gonna pack up like and leave tomorrow. A stampede of horses just running through it.
Speaker 1:Apparently haunted houses are converting into data centers. There are a number of Hollywood sound stages studios that have been set up in Atlanta,
Speaker 3:I think
Speaker 1:she said, Georgia, and they're not monetizing well as studios. And so they're converting them into data centers. Trump hailed more than 92,000,000,000 in AI and energy deals from the likes of Blackstone and Brookfield during a visit to Pennsylvania this year. Many say there's too much money flooding in. The big value play is getting this ready for a hyperscaler to go vertical in less than a year.
Speaker 2:I've seen enough. He should have backed based on his Halloween revenue
Speaker 1:For sure.
Speaker 2:And then use that capital to to go all in.
Speaker 1:The timeline's going pretty crazy on the BG squared. He had Satya Nadella and Sam Altman on the show, and everyone is debating whether or not a $14,000,000,000 revenue company, OpenAI, can afford to pay 1,400,000,000,000 And Brad asked this question directly. It's kind of a crazy moment because a lot of people were saying like, well, he's an investor. This should be the softest ball interview possible. A lot of journalists were like, how is this happening?
Speaker 1:How is it that Sam Altman's getting it's, a harder interview with a direct investor than with a traditional media journalist.
Speaker 2:I don't think Brad meant meant for it to be a tough question. The whole interview was a layup. Like, Brad is like you said, he's heavily aligned with OpenAI. This wasn't meant to be a gotcha. Sam just might have woken up in a bad mood that day because the answer that he gave was absolutely horrible.
Speaker 4:I think there's a lot of people who would love to buy OpenAI shares. I don't I don't think you want
Speaker 2:to Including myself. Including myself. People
Speaker 4:who talk with a lot of, like, breathless concern about our compute stuff or whatever that would be thrilled to buy shares. So I think we we could sell, you know, your shares or anybody else's to some of the people who are making the most noise on Twitter, whatever, about this very quickly. We do plan for
Speaker 3:revenue to
Speaker 4:grow steeply.
Speaker 1:Revenue step back is
Speaker 4:growing steeply. We are taking a forward effort that
Speaker 3:it's gonna continue to grow.
Speaker 2:So pause pause for a second.
Speaker 1:I was just listening to the audio, and I was like, oh, like, that's, like, a totally reasonable answer. But when you watch the video and you see the body language and you get into all that, I feel like
Speaker 2:The issue is Sam
Speaker 1:a whole
Speaker 2:extra layer. Sam got pressed, he went
Speaker 1:See? You don't you don't hear that on the audio. You don't hear that on the audio. And so you see what I'm saying? How, like, you can win in one medium but lose in another?
Speaker 2:Anytime I don't like something you're saying, John, I'm just gonna go.
Speaker 1:Well, well, the audio listeners won't know. Yeah. Won't know. And the timeline was also fixating on this fact that, at some point, Brad takes a step back from the microphone. They were reading into that.
Speaker 1:Like, that's something that just doesn't come across in audio. And so you hear it, you're just like, okay. Yeah. This actually sounds like pretty And
Speaker 2:Satya Satya's just sitting back laughing, basically.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 2:It was like the, it was the one of of the most most strange strange yeah. I was actually surprised that that they released it. I think it's good that it was released. Yeah. Because this is the question that is on everyone's mind.
Speaker 2:Yes. He says, how will you afford 1,400,000,000,000.0 in spending with only 12,000,000,000 of revenue? And Sam was like, actually we have more revenue than that. Yep. Of course they lost 10 or so billion dollars last quarter.
Speaker 2:Sam's answer was basically sell your shares. We're automating science and we're gonna release a hardware device and we're gonna need a lot of compute for that. I can't think of a more, poor answer when people deserve to have a I think a bit more clarity around it. Sam is smart enough to not sign up for $1,400,000,000,000 of, like, liabilities. Yeah.
Speaker 2:There is a world where he can thread the needle and spend all this money that he's sort of soft committing. But everything has to go perfectly. Agenda commerce has to has to be massive. Ads need to be massive. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Subscriptions need to keep growing at the same rate. And so a lot of things need to go right. And it was just a really weak answer. The only person that I saw defending the answer and the whole interaction was Brad.
Speaker 1:Okay. So Sam said that the revenue was incorrect. It's not 14,000,000,000. It's higher.
Speaker 2:It's worth noting that the losses are dramatically greater than the revenue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that doesn't matter for the deals because you pay the deals from the revenue.
Speaker 2:So many different businesses where their market caps are riding on their partnership with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You're just saying like, yeah, we're going to just hit a grand slam with a new consumer hardware device. And every other attempt at it so far has not managed to make anything even really that useful.
Speaker 1:If OpenAI doesn't accelerate to a trillion dollars in revenue or quadrillion dollars in revenue, and all of a sudden there's a whole bunch of folks who are like, wait a minute, how are you going to pay us for our cloud stuff? And they're able to say, okay, well, let's actually wind this back or let's stretch this contract out. This five year contract, let's make it a ten year contract. Like, if all of that can happen smoothly and efficiently with just the stroke of a pen, like, it's not that big of a deal. It can
Speaker 2:Except if you're Oracle and you spend tens of billions of dollars building infrastructure that you ultimately can't monetize in the way that you thought you were gonna monetize. And if got to. And they have massive debt. Yep. And so the reason I'm wearing the tinfoil hat is I would like to propose the the glut theory, which is that I believe I believe there's a chance Yeah.
Speaker 2:That Sam actually wants to create a massive overbuild
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So he can he can ultimately
Speaker 1:He predicted a glut. He controls the glut on the show. Yeah. He's glut pill.
Speaker 2:He's glut pill.
Speaker 1:It doesn't seem like they have a lot of debt. It doesn't seem like we don't know. We that's the thing is that we don't know how these contracts are are written. There could be a an easy mutual out. It could just be like, these contracts can be revocable for convenience.
Speaker 1:If you don't pay your AWS bill, OpenAI, there's 37,000,000,000.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:If you don't pay it, we own the company. You go into receivership. You go bankrupt. They're wildly different contracts, and we don't know.
Speaker 2:OpenAI, I believe, will be a massive beneficiary of a glut and an overbuild. Sam is entirely right. He's actually smart to say, focus on, let's focus on demand for the stock. Yeah. Right?
Speaker 2:If you wanna get out, I'll help you get out.
Speaker 1:Are you gonna nuke my portfolio and I'm gonna be fine on your deal, but the rest of my portfolio is getting cooked.
Speaker 2:You could have done a few of these press releases and there wouldn't have been as many questions. OpenAI's revenue ramp is insane. They have the biggest consumer product in the last ten years. When you announce a $100,000,000,000 deal, a $200,000,000,000 deal, another a $100,000,000,000, a $50,000,000,000 deal. And then less than seventy two hours after this internet interview releases, there's another $38,000,000,000 deal announced.
Speaker 2:Now is an appropriate time, I think, for people to just press them harder on this. The, the joke of like OpenAI is holding up the stock market is incredibly real right now.
Speaker 1:I mean, it, I, I don't know what more people want though. Like we've been growing three, three acts every year. We project that we're gonna continue to grow three acts. The quadrillion number is a joke, but clearly they back of the envelope to being a hyperscaler.
Speaker 2:So say that. Don't say we're automating science. Sell your shares. Elon does very similar things, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally. We're gonna go to Mars and we're gonna have a flying car and we're gonna,
Speaker 2:you know, we're gonna do data space. Is probably 10 to 50 times more likable than Sam in general.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Elon is more likable. And so people give him the benefit of the doubt, longer track record of delivering on, you know, there's the, there's a thing of like, Elon, you know, gets the timing wrong, but he delivered.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just going to
Speaker 2:be more. Just think, I just think that we're, we're gonna cure cancer answer. We're automating science answer. Isn't good enough anymore at this scale when there's this many trillions of dollars on the line. Hey man, how are you gonna pay for the 1,400,000,000,000.0 of spend you've promised Proceeds to crash out.
Speaker 1:People are reading too much into Sam being feisty. Love that vitamin in our founders. We laughed about it afterwards.
Speaker 2:Again, the question is for people that are not invested in OpenAI Mhmm. But invested in all the companies that they're partnered with.
Speaker 1:Sure. Gotta give it to Altman, very forward thinker, itching to go public for the sole purpose of crushing the hypothetical short sellers that don't exist yet. Can't wait for the s one. I love that. So Sam breaks people's brains just like Elon.
Speaker 1:There's a thin line between grifter and visionary, and creating true believers to harvest their capital requires rhetoric that makes nonbelievers recoil. Elon hates Sam be not just because he stole his company, but he stole his whole playbook. Is Elon Barnum and Bailey the circus man, or is he Thomas Edison or Nikola Tesla? Well, he's both. Not only can he lead engineers to invent the thing and build the thing, but then he can also promote it, and he can promote it really, really well.
Speaker 1:He's both the grifter and the visionary. He's both the real deal and the fake guru. And when you put those together, it's really, really powerful. Sam seems to be doing something similar. In the build out of Tesla, in the build out of of SpaceX, there was never a moment where it was like, if if Elon goes bust, everything is dead.
Speaker 2:Speaking generally.
Speaker 1:It's a timeline assessment.
Speaker 2:Elon is more likable than Sam. He has also made tens of thousands of retail investors so much money for believing in him. And so Sam doesn't have the benefit of having, like there's no retail army defending Sam.
Speaker 5:He says, like, one of the reasons he would want IPO is so that he could basically bring, you know, not just venture capitalists, but the entire economy with him, you know.
Speaker 3:Yes. Yes. He's pulling up.
Speaker 5:So he clearly he wants the retail army.
Speaker 1:Elon says you stole a nonprofit. Sam Altman says, I helped turn the thing you left for dead into what should be the largest nonprofit ever.
Speaker 2:Nine one one, I'd like to report a murder. Sam. Yeah. Sam basically giving shit to Tesla. No.
Speaker 2:Not being able to do a refund. So the follow-up to you stole a nonprofit and you forgot to mention act four where this issue is fixed and you received a refund within twenty four hours, but that is in your nature. So again
Speaker 1:Elon refunded him. They Refund confirmed.
Speaker 2:Hard because this this is the most dentist coated car I've ever seen in my life. A white Turbo S
Speaker 1:with Pulling the top down while you're driving, though. It's pretty sick.
Speaker 2:So, I mean, I I I really dislike the I I really dislike Cabriolets in general.
Speaker 1:If this is the car that getting a dentist gets you,
Speaker 2:I think No. No shade to dentist, but this is a great car. If you were if you're buying a sports car to drive to work at your dentist's office, this is a great option. Probably the greatest car in history That's rough. All around.
Speaker 2:But, it's not what customers want, and it's unfortunate.
Speaker 1:Speaking of cars, Elon Musk teased on the Joe Rogan experience wild. That the Tesla Roadster will be a flying car. He danced around it. He didn't say that exactly. Are you still doing the Roadster?
Speaker 1:Let's go.
Speaker 3:Yes. Let's do it.
Speaker 1:Eventually? Eventually.
Speaker 3:We're getting close to demonstrating the prototype.
Speaker 1:It's been
Speaker 3:so Like, and I think this will be Look at that. I I one thing I guarantee is that this product demo will be unforgettable. I love it. Unforgettable.
Speaker 1:How so?
Speaker 3:Whether it's good or bad. Whether it's good or bad. Could be unforgettable.
Speaker 5:Bad. Well, you know, think
Speaker 3:about material
Speaker 2:They could crack.
Speaker 3:You know, once reflected that the spoof the future was supposed to have flying cars, but we don't have flying cars. Amazing.
Speaker 1:So you're be able to fly?
Speaker 3:Well, I I mean,
Speaker 2:Joe's face.
Speaker 3:I think if Peter wants a flying car, we should we should build that one.
Speaker 2:Okay. Pause it right there. It's What if it just actually is a flying car?
Speaker 1:It could be. Large solar powered AI satellite constellation would be able
Speaker 2:to fix him.
Speaker 1:Prevent fix him. Would be able to prevent global warming by making tiny adjustments in how much solar energy reached the Earth. How much CapEx does that cost?
Speaker 2:One thing that was, super notable, he and was talking about the the shareholder vote around his compensation, but also the the voting power that'll have. And one of the things that he said was, I don't wanna create a robot army if I can be fired by ISS
Speaker 1:or any
Speaker 2:these voting groups.
Speaker 1:Who should control the robot army? Good question. Let me tell you about public.com, investing for those that take it seriously. Multi asset investing, industry leading yields, trusted by millions. They have shared new details on the internal conflicts that led to Sam Altman's initial firing, including a memo alleging that Altman exhibited a consistent pattern of lying.
Speaker 1:There's a deposition transcript that is going around that is now public from the Ilia deposition. Toucan kind of summarizes here. Ilya plotted for over a year with Meera to remove Sam. Dario wanted Greg Brockman fired and himself in charge of all research. That's Dario Amade, I believe, from Anthropic.
Speaker 1:Mira Moradi told Ilya that Sam Altman, pitted her against Daniela Amade. Ilya wrote a 52 page memo to get Sam fired in a separate doc on Greg.
Speaker 2:Tyler is gonna be playing the attorney Agnolucci, and I will be attorney Molo. And I'm Ilya. It certainly does matter how much. What do you think the value of your equity at OpenAI was at the time Sam Altman was fired?
Speaker 5:And I'm instructing the witness not to answer as to the money value. Are
Speaker 2:you going to not answer?
Speaker 1:I have to obey my attorney.
Speaker 2:Okay. So you're not going to answer.
Speaker 1:I'll do what my attorney tells me to. I think it's very hard for someone who would be described as a saint to make it. We're on the road tomorrow, but we're still doing a show 11AM Pacific. We'll see you there. I don't think we'll be doing any guests.
Speaker 1:We'll see. It might be a little bit of a shorter show, but don't worry. We have a bunch
Speaker 2:of time planned.
Speaker 1:We'll see you tomorrow.
Speaker 2:See you tomorrow. Goodbye. Love you.