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It's easy to live as orphans, especially if you have a significant father wound. How do we move for living with an orphan spirit to being sons? Today's episode is part three of a five part series called The Father Factor. In this series we are unpacking God's vision for fathers, the role of a father, the signs and symptoms of a father wound, the difference between an orphan spirit and sonship, and the different seasons of the father wound.
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You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. My name is Steven. I'm here with my best friend, Zachary Garza. How the heck are you?
Speaker 3:Man, 3 weeks in a row being your best friend, Hopefully, this this
Speaker 2:factor series. Yeah. Seriously. I hope our relationship thrives. Hey.
Speaker 2:I hope you're doing well listeners.
Speaker 3:All 8 of you
Speaker 2:out there. Just so encouraged by the 8 of you that have pushed the subscribe button. We've been following our analytics like no other. Thank you, mom, for listening to my podcast.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's it's my mom. It's my wife. It's your mom. It's your wife.
Speaker 2:And Katie does not listen to this podcast.
Speaker 3:Dude, it's my wife.
Speaker 2:Like, come
Speaker 3:on, Sarah. Like I
Speaker 2:try and turn it on in the house just to get her to listen to it, but she's just like, turn
Speaker 3:that off. She's like, You Can Mentor podcast or Inya? Yeah. Inya.
Speaker 2:Well, that's awesome. Well, we're continuing the father factor series. Last week, we talked about what is the father wound and how how we as mentors need to address our own father wound before we engage our mentee's father wound. Today, we're gonna unpack signs and symptoms, more of the emotions behind the father wound, as well as talk about the orphan spirit, which is a a big theme, as we talk about the father wound is that, how this affects the way we think, our identity, how we relate with God even. So I'm excited about this episode.
Speaker 2:Let's jump in. You finished the last episode talking about false masculinity and apathy of of these two responses to the father wound of, like, projecting this kind of masculinity that's not true, but you want to be true, or being led into this place of just like, well, I'm never gonna be enough and lead you into this place of just apathy. And I'd I'd love for you to talk more about about the effects of a father wound in the life of a kid from a hard place.
Speaker 3:Yeah. For sure. Now just to kinda recap, if you wanna hear all of our thoughts on the father wound and just how touchy of a topic it is, go back to the last episode. But just know that, like, this is not a black and white issue. This is gray.
Speaker 3:There's a there's a sliding scale. Right? And it's sliding between this this orphan spirit and sonship. Orphan spirit is the main foundation of it is fear, while the main foundation of sonship is trust. And what's so difficult about this is I know in my life, it it isn't as simple as I'm a son and I walk in sonship.
Speaker 3:I'm an orphan and I walk in the orphan spirit. No. Like They
Speaker 2:wouldn't claim it, man.
Speaker 3:In some areas, like, I I do walk out in sonship, but 1 hour later, I can be walking out in the orphan spirit. And so it's almost like I am depending on, what I'm doing, what I'm thinking about, the experiences that I'm having. It's like I can act like a son one minute, but then the very next, I act like an orphan. And so, that is what's so difficult about this is you can have 2 kids from the same family who have the same father and who and who have had the same experiences, but they deal with it differently. And the view in which they they see the world, in some things they see themselves as sons and in some areas they see them themselves as orphans.
Speaker 3:And so every person's different, every child is different, every circumstance is different. But here are some possible symptoms of, this thing that we call the father wound. You or the kid that you mentor, you may not have any of these. You might have a couple or you might have all of them. So, that's kind of what I want to unpack today, just what are the signs, what are the symptoms, and how does it impact your life?
Speaker 3:How does it influence the choices that you make and how you see the world and how you see people? So, like, let's talk about an orphan. Right? An an orphan that lives his life in fear, it's self focused. How how am I gonna survive?
Speaker 3:Who's gonna provide for me? Perhaps there's some shame there, just shame about maybe not being in a healthy family or not having a father figure.
Speaker 2:Or is this my fault?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Or is is all of this on me? Right? There's worry, perhaps there's some guilt, and the main way that they live is just with a lack of security. They're very insecure.
Speaker 3:They might feel worthless. They might feel like they don't have anything to offer. And because of that, they're very critical. There's a lot of complaining. There is anger, and that is in the most extreme case.
Speaker 3:Right? That is how an orphan lives his life. And then on the other side of that, there's a son. Right? And a son knows that they're safe.
Speaker 3:They know that everything that they need will be provided and that they don't have to worry about that and that that produces, peace. They have freedom to explore and freedom to take chances. There's a healthy sense of pride like I belong to my family. I am my mom's. I am my dad's.
Speaker 3:They feel secure. They don't have to worry about almost anything because they know that mom and dad have them. They know that dad's going to provide that covering. They feel full of worth. They're able to celebrate things.
Speaker 3:They're able to celebrate people. When their friends, conquer something or have an accomplishment, they're able to cheer them on and they're able to say, hey, great job because they're not worried if they're going to get theirs. They're thankful, they focus on the good things and not the bad things. And just overall, there is just a sense of joy. And why wouldn't there be, right?
Speaker 3:Because I don't really have to worry about anything. I'm safe, I'm secure, everything that everything that I need is here and, things are good.
Speaker 2:When you look at your own sons, do do they show signs of an orphan spirit ever? Or or are they all in this this son category? Because I I feel like in a way in a way we all feel the orphan spirit, like, rise up within us. And I think that that's a product not just of our experience of our father, but even outside of that, I think there is an insecurity that wells up because of sin and because of, not just the experience of our father, but the orphan spirit is present in all of us. Well and that's when,
Speaker 3:like, on the surface, you know, if you really don't have to worry about anything, right, if you have a good family and if you have money and are secure and things like that, sometimes it's kind of a stretch to say that we live in a broken world. Right? But if you really put a magnifying glass on the world, and if you really go into the depths of your own heart and your own experiences and the people that you spend time with, or maybe it's your neighbors or kids who are in your city who don't have what your own kids have. Right? If you really start going down that road, then you can see just how broken this world is.
Speaker 3:And not only do we live in a broken world for everyone, it doesn't matter your race, doesn't matter your socioeconomic standard, this world is broken for you. But you can also start to see how the enemy really is the king of this world because all he wants to do is lie. And from the earliest of ages, even with my kids who are 1, 3, and 5, I see the enemy planting seeds of lies. I see him telling my son that, oh, you can't climb up that tree? That's because you're not strong enough.
Speaker 3:Oh, that kid doesn't want to spend time with you? That's because you're not worth spending time with. The enemy plants these seeds of lies that unless we as it says in the Song of Solomon, unless we kind of get those foxes out of the vineyard, they're gonna destroy it. And just like, it's so important for us to identify lies, identify sins in our life and deal with it because if we don't, then it's gonna overtake us. And so even in my own kid's life, and I feel like I'm a good father.
Speaker 3:I don't know if that's a fair statement, but
Speaker 2:I think you are a good father.
Speaker 3:I try my hardest. Like, I am very intentional, but I know that, 1, I am going to fail. Like, my kids are going to grow up and say, man, dad could have done better in this area. The only thing that I can do is apologize and ask for grace and ask for forgiveness. But my kids are going to get hurt because this world is a hard place.
Speaker 3:Relationships can be messy. Right? Whenever they start to date, like, they might get their feelings hurt, especially now with social media and things like that. I feel like just the opportunity for a kid to get hurt is just greater than ever. And especially with kids whose hearts are so, like, open.
Speaker 3:Like, my my son really does believe the best about everyone. Like, he has no problem going up and talking to a complete stranger because he hasn't been hurt yet. Right? But whenever a hurt comes, that's a prime spot for the enemy to place a lie and say, oh, he didn't want to talk to you or that person who you said hi to at the grocery store, they didn't say hi to you because. Right?
Speaker 3:And those lies will come. And so even if a child has the best father, they're still gonna experience some of these symptoms of having this orphan spirit because, 1, this world is broken, 2, my kid will get hurt whether from me or from someone else. And 3, the enemy wants to lie. Like, that is what he does. That is his profession.
Speaker 3:He is an expert liar, and he will find what you care about, and he will find just a way to get in there so that he can, get you off track and displace you from where the Lord wants you to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Which I think physiologically, we are more inclined to hold on to negative stimuli than positive stimuli. That's why the scripture encourages us to rejoice and remember the goodness of God and cultivate thankfulness, and, like, that's where God loves a thankful heart. Yeah. And we are so inclined to focus on negative aspects.
Speaker 2:And I think that's a part of the father wound is that we when we think about our dads, usually it's easier to think about the ways they didn't do what they were supposed to do, not the days that they killed it. And I think even with kids who have dads that are active, present, and are in, like, the top one percent, I would put you in the top one percentile of dads in in the world. You're welcome, Zach.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:But that doesn't mean your kids aren't gonna have a father wound or experience the orphan spirit in the inclination to hold on to fear, shame, guilt, all of those things. And that's really telling of how how difficult this situation is when even if you have a great dad, you're you're still inclined to the orphan spirit. Well and, like,
Speaker 3:it is so difficult because keep in mind that from birth, we are sinful beings. Now, through the blood of Jesus Christ, like, we are saints, we are redeemed, like, we are made perfect in his image. However, sometimes I forget that. And I'm not walking around 100% of the time being like, oh, thank you, Jesus. Like, you are the best.
Speaker 3:I Lord, I love you. Like, no. There's things that happen that I forget. I forget who I am and I forget whose I am. It really does come back to that self centeredness, that self focus.
Speaker 3:Oh, my gosh, Lord. I just lost this deal. I just lost my job. I just had a fight with my wife. What's gonna happen?
Speaker 3:And then all these orphan spirit kind of feelings and lies start to pop up. Fear, shame, worry, guilt, insecurity, worthlessness, criticism, complaining. I get angry. Right? Like, that happens.
Speaker 3:But that's why it's so important to have an intimate relationship with the Lord where you can run to him and say, god, I'm not gonna sit in these feelings, but instead, I'm gonna take them and I'm gonna process them and I'm gonna lay them down at your feet so that you can exchange my fear for safety, so that you can give me instead of shame, a healthy pride about who I am. You can trade out insecurity for security, and guilt for freedom, and worry for peace. God, help me. Instead of complaining, help me give thanks. God, I don't want to be angry.
Speaker 3:God, can you turn my anger into joy? Can you turn my ashes into beauty? And that's what he does. But you have to almost do this on a continuous basis. That's why it's so important for us as followers of Jesus to spend time with Him every single day.
Speaker 3:Because from my experience, if I don't spend time with Him one day, I'm good. 2 days, 3 days, I'm a mess. Right? But I have to go back into His presence every day because I need that reminder. Like, we forget who we are, and we forget whose we are.
Speaker 3:It's almost like there's someone in our life, in this world who's constantly telling us who we aren't. Right? And that's Satan because, like, this world is his playground, but we need to get into God's presence to remind us and say, no, no, no, Satan, I am not these things, but this is who God says I am through His word, through His spirit, and through community that I have in my life who's dispelling these lies.
Speaker 2:And so You're preaching on me.
Speaker 3:Went off on a tangent there, but, like, this this sonship, I believe it is it is the foundation. And when I say sonship, I mean trusting the Lord, putting your faith in him, saying, God, you are the Lord of my life, and I'm gonna follow you because what you have for me is good. When you're walking in that instead of a self focus, what's gonna happen? How am I gonna get out of this? How am I gonna provide?
Speaker 3:It's all up to me. Oh my gosh. There's so much pressure and there's so much I need to be in His presence so that I'm walking in sonship. Because if I forget, sooner or later, I'm going to find myself walking in the orphan spirit, and I'm going to see every relationship, every situation, everything in my life through that lens. It's almost like every morning I have to go to God and get a new pair of eyes and say, God, help me see everything through the eyes of sonship.
Speaker 3:Help me remember that I have a spot at your table and that I'm a part of your family and that you're my father and because of that, I'm good.
Speaker 2:Sometimes when I think about, I guess, the the dualism of an orphan spirit versus the spirit of a son, One of them is what I'm inclined to and another is what god has promised me in Jesus. I am a son. He has declared me a son of god and there's an inheritance and a promise for me to receive in walking that out. I think a difficulty I have is what's the disconnect between my actions to walk out as a son and god's just power on my life making me a son. And I guess what's my personal responsibility to receive it alongside God's declaration of it, if that makes sense?
Speaker 3:This is how I found God to work. Right? God, like, he makes himself known to people who seek him out. Like, yes, God God wants you to walk out in sonship, and he wants to give you things that you might not even deserve. Right?
Speaker 3:But he also wants you to enter in, and he also wants you to ask, and he also wants you to take risks and say, God, I don't know if this is true, but I'm gonna take a step of faith and believe you. And so, yes, God is gracious and God does miracles and God can change our heart, but he also calls us to work hard, and he also calls us to deal with stuff and to take things that are in the darkness and get them out into the light. It's almost like, he will do his part, but we also have to do our part. Because in us doing our part, we will actually find more of him because everything that he has for us is good. So yeah.
Speaker 3:But
Speaker 2:Can you unpack more of how fear and trust affect the way we live our lives? Because I I feel like I I like the orphan spirit is living in fear. Spirit of sonship is a life walking and trust in God.
Speaker 3:Yeah. There's a book called Spiritual Slavery to Sonship by Jack and Tricia Frost that really goes into more depth about this, but this identity of sonship or of the orphan spirit, it affects how you view God. Right? An orphan kind of sees God as master as don't don't talk to me, like, we have a relationship, but it's not intimate. It's, I'm up here, you're down there.
Speaker 3:I'm the master. I'm in charge. Don't forget that. That kind of the the foundation of that is fear. But in sonship, you really can see God as a father.
Speaker 3:Like, you can come to him and you can ask him things and you can be intimate with him. And so often kinda kinda how you view God is almost like how you have experienced your own father. And so if you and your father don't say, I love you. If you don't talk about, emotions or hard things, if you just kinda sweep everything under the rug, well, it's likely that that's how you're gonna be with God too. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But on the other side, if you and your father have a healthy relationship and process stuff and apologize and ask for forgiveness and things like that, then, well, you're you're more likely to kinda, have an easier time with that with God as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's kinda like if you if you look at the 10 commandments, you could look at it 2 different ways. You could look at it as God saying, hey. This is important to me. And if you don't do these 10 things, like, it's not gonna go well with us.
Speaker 2:Or you can read it as, hey. You are important to me, and I want what's best for you. And I love you. And these are the things that lead to your flourishing. That's 2 different ways of looking at the 10 commandments.
Speaker 2:1 is a place of God's demanding something of me, and another is God delights in me, and he wants what's best for me.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And you're gonna fall into one of those two camps, in my opinion, because of the impact of your father. Like your father wound, your relationship with your dad is going to drive that. And so that's that's kind of what I mean when I say your relationship with your dad is going to drive your relationship with God. Just a couple more things is dependency.
Speaker 3:Right? And an orphan is self reliant. Right? That's that's self focused. But a son depends on others.
Speaker 3:They acknowledge the need of help, and they're not afraid to ask for it. An orphan feels insecure. There's there's a lack of peace. Whereas a son, he has rest. He has peace.
Speaker 3:He doesn't worry because he knows that he's got a father who's going to take care of him. When it comes to serving, right? Sometimes an orphan, they feel this need to serve as I need to complete this achievement to impress God or to impress other people, almost to like earn your keep. Right? It's that, or there's no motive at all to serve because they only care about themselves.
Speaker 3:They're only focused on themselves. Whereas with the sun, you're motivated to serve by a deep gratitude just of thanksgiving for what God has done. Man, God, you have provided so much for me. I wanna provide that for someone else as well.
Speaker 2:That that sounds like the biggest father wound right there. I just think about all the times I try to impress my dad and do things to earn his approval or the, I mean, we do it with God as well. Right. And not, not recognizing that his love is unconditional and that our services is out of the place of gratitude and like cheerful, cheerful service and giving not under compulsion.
Speaker 3:Well and it all comes back to the heart. Like, why are you doing the things that you're doing? Now, yeah, like, there's God calls us sometimes to engage the things that are hard. Right? But eventually, like, he wants us to to grow to where, like, we want to serve others.
Speaker 3:Right? It's not because God said so, but it's because I want to because I wanna be more like Jesus. This kind of takes us into just Christian disciplines, like doing things for God. Right? An orphan, like, it is my duty.
Speaker 3:Like, I have to do these things. I have to earn God's favor. Like, it's earning that spot at the table. Right? It's that or there's just no motivation at all.
Speaker 3:But a son, like, you want to do these things, like, your heart is like, man, I want to please God. I wanna give Him pleasure and delight by reading my Bible or being in community or getting stuff that's in the darkness into the light. It's almost the same thing with, you know, being pure. Like, the Lord doesn't want us to struggle with sin for the rest of our lives. Like, he says that, like, we can overcome this stuff.
Speaker 3:Right? But for so many people, they are in bondage. They're trapped by sexual sin or by just impure thoughts. And so often that comes from an orphan spirit of this feeling like I I have to be holy, like I have to do these things. And if I don't, there's like shame and guilt, like, I can't do it.
Speaker 3:I'm not good enough. I feel so bad. Right? What is the heart of you not looking at pornography? Is it like, I have to do this because or is it like, I wanna be holy.
Speaker 3:I want to be pure. My heart wants to be like God. Like, I want a clean heart. Because a sonship, they want to. An orphan, they have to.
Speaker 3:Right? A son wants to be holy. Like, they don't want anything to hinder their walk with God. They're going to do whatever they have to do to get rid of sin, not because God said so, but because they want to be in right standing with God. They want to be in a relationship like their desire is pure.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I I mean, I think that definitely goes back to just kinda what you said about how we get our needs met that, that an orphan takes things into their own hand. And it's just like, well, this is what I need, and I'm gonna make the decision to do it. And I think what you're talking about pornography, obviously, that's something that is not a conversation we talk about just as much as we don't talk about our father wounds. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And how much that's related to this this longing for intimacy and connection that we're unwilling to communicate and ask for help with or, seek to be more dependent upon God to meet our needs rather than us just, well, I'm just gonna go take it into my own hands.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Literally.
Speaker 3:Easy. I can remember, like, early on in my walk and, just like, I I was so, like, I have to do these things, like, it's up to me, like, church and religion. It's it's the law. And if I don't go to community group, and if I don't read my Bible, and if I don't pray for an hour a day, and if I, you know, and if I don't do all these things, then God's not gonna like me. And, God, you say that I shouldn't lust and I shouldn't be in sin, so I'm gonna put a safeguard on my computer, and I'm gonna have 17 accountability groups and things like that, and and it's just like it was up to me.
Speaker 3:Like, it was up to me. Like, I have to, I, I, I, I. Now don't get me wrong, like, there isn't anything wrong with those things. Like, accountability groups are great, like reading your Bible and praying, those are all good. But what's the motive?
Speaker 3:And my motive was to earn God's love. Like my motive was to make myself perfect, was to clean myself up on my own, in my own power so that God would love me. And it wasn't until I kind of raised my hand and was like, God, I can't do this. I need You. Like, I've tried everything and it's not working.
Speaker 3:This law, like me doing all these things, it's not working. I need your love to transform my life. And in that, I found acceptance. I found rest. I found peace.
Speaker 3:I found that God changed my heart and that I didn't have to anymore, but I wanted to. And now my desires are godly.
Speaker 2:All of these are connected to a need, and it's kind of like our response to this need. Is it are are we responding out of fear or trust? What else?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I think kinda our self image, our self worth, our self esteem, like, whenever you're walking in fear in a in an orphan spirit, like, you compare yourself. Like, you compare yourself to others and, there's always going to be someone who is smarter than you or better than you or makes more money than you or stronger than you, right? And especially now with like social media, there's so much self rejection from comparison. Self worth, like that causes you to feel kind of worthless.
Speaker 3:Self esteem, like maybe you hate yourself or you just kind of stop trying. But in in sonship, whenever you're trusting God, like you're believing who he says you are. Like, you feel positive about yourself and you feel affirmed because you know that you're a son of God. You know that you're a child of God and that he loves you. You know that you have worth and that, because of that, you can love yourself.
Speaker 3:Like, you're not constantly trying to be something that you're not but that you feel secure in who you are. You you take comfort as a son in the presence of god, in his love. Like, that's where you feel at home. Whereas with with an orphan, like, you deal with this hurt, you deal with these hard hard things through addictions or compulsions or maybe it's escaping through video games or things like that. You make yourself busy so you don't have to think about it.
Speaker 3:Right? And you can be busy with a lot of really good things. You can be busy trying to learn or going to church or with work or things like that. But a son finds his comfort in the Lord and an orphan in the things of this world. With friends, right?
Speaker 3:Like a son values others and they're able to celebrate them. Whereas in Orphan, it's competition. It's like there's only so much out there and I've I've got to get mine before you get yours, right? There's competition, there's rivalry, there's jealousy. There is I am not going to celebrate you because you took something that I could have had.
Speaker 3:Whereas a son, there's more than enough in the kingdom of God. Like God's house has everything that you need. And so dealing with people's faults, right? Like, as a son, love covers. Like, there is gentleness.
Speaker 3:There is love. There is grace. But an orphan, there's a lot of accusations and exposing other people's faults to make yourself look good. Right? I know with me, like one area that my orphan spirit just kind of pops out is I feel like I have a lot of grace and, I love and I'm gentle with most people.
Speaker 3:Right? But for some reason, like my orphan spirit pops out with my mom. Like, my mom can do 99 things right, but I am laser focused on the one thing that she didn't do right. And that's an area that I have to fix. And I fix that by taking it to God.
Speaker 3:Say, God, change my heart in this area. Change my desires. Help me focus on what she is doing and not in what she's not doing. I know one one area that, the orphan spirit really pops out is in authority. I know that the bigger your father wound, the bigger you kind of see authority as pain.
Speaker 3:And there's a lack of trust there. There's a lack of, submission because you don't believe that they have your best in mind because of what's happened in the past. A son, they're respectful, they honor, they, they believe, they truly believe that God has put this person over me for my good and that you're gonna do something in them that's gonna make me look more like you. Feedback. Right?
Speaker 3:Like, man, whenever I was younger, I could not accept feedback from someone. Hard feedback was like a nail to my heart. Why? Because I believe that if they gave me negative feedback that they didn't love me. I wasn't able to separate, hey, you're doing this wrong from you are wrong.
Speaker 3:And so an orphan, like, you have a really hard time receiving feedback. It's it's almost like you have to be right. And if if someone says that you're not right, then you get your feelings hurt and you close off and you kind of turn into a shell of yourself. Whereas a son wants to get better and they see feedback as a blessing like, thank you so much for telling me an area that I need to improve in. They are totally open about their faults and their weaknesses because they're secure.
Speaker 3:And they're saying, hey, thanks for bringing this to light so that I can kill them. So that I can become more like Jesus. And just like those are 2 things that kids who I mentor, I have seen just authority and ability to receive feedback. Those are 2 major areas that impact a mentoring relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think that's huge. And just there's a desire to be seen, known, acknowledged, and celebrated, and you'll do anything you can to have that. Whereas a son, he knows that he's celebrated. He knows that he's seen.
Speaker 2:Like, there there's a level of not striving after those things being seen. If anything, it's that a son wants to be exposed and is longing for feedback and authority and to be questioned and, like, derives encouragement from being questioned and and knows that there's a good intention there, which I feel like that's that's like Christianity in a nutshell. Yeah. It's like Jesus calls us to take all of our best things and put them in the secret place where only god sees and then bring all of the darkness into the light so that we might be free. That that's that's engaging the orphan spirit.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I can remember, I used to go to this church where the pastor would, like, call out people each week, and they'd be like, man, here's Steven. Steven made a podcast, and it was awesome. God loves Steven. And I can remember every Sunday whenever it was that time for him to call out someone, I would be, like, is it gonna be me?
Speaker 3:Is it gonna be me? Is it gonna be me? And when it wasn't, I was angry. My heart wasn't good. And I look back at that and be like, man, that was the orphan spirit.
Speaker 3:Like, I wanted to be celebrated. I wanted to be acknowledged. I wanted someone to say, hey, Zach, you're doing a great job. Because me receiving that only from God wasn't enough. And so that was a point in my life where I had to look at my heart and be like, man, this is so dumb, but it's actually exposing something that's pretty serious that I need the praise of man.
Speaker 3:I need someone to say, Zach, you're doing a great job, and if I don't get it, man, that could turn ugly because then I'll I'll start doing things because of the motive to impress man, not to impress God. One one more thing is just failing. Right? Like now I can honestly say that I love failing. And like we are where we are today as an organization because we failed and because we've said, that's okay, let's learn how to do it better.
Speaker 3:And because we've asked different orgs, hey, how do you mentor? Show us how to get better. But an orphan hates failing because he thinks if I failed, then what I have will be taken from me. I won't be loved. I'm scared.
Speaker 3:Right? It is that fear. I'm so scared of failing because what's gonna happen? Whereas a son is secure. They know that their future, that, like, God has an inheritance for them and and that, like, they're going to be taken care of.
Speaker 3:Whereas an orphan has to fight, like, fight for inheritance. They have to prove that they're worthy of it. They have to earn it. Like, it's on them. Like, I need to get this or else.
Speaker 3:And, like, this this also kind of plays into, like, just your position, like, you're standing. Like, an orphan, if they have a master, then they feel like they're a slave. Whereas, if a son feels like he is a father, well, then they feel like a child of God. Right? Like, man, my kids have no problem coming up to me and engaging with me and asking me for things.
Speaker 3:Like, they have no problem being their true self with me because they're not guarded, but an orphan is. And they are constantly on the lookout to get what they need, whether it's love or, provision or protection, and it just messes up their vision. Like, the orphan is all about ambition. Right? Like, I need to achieve.
Speaker 3:I need to strive. I need to be seen as something that I'm not and that's how I'm going to get what I need. Whereas a son, like, they know that they're accepted. Like, they don't have to worry about the vision. They don't have to worry about the future because god loves them unconditionally and he's going to take care of them.
Speaker 3:Like, a father takes care of his children. And I know that I'm really, like, talking about a lot of stuff here. But for some people, like, they're gonna relate to this. Like, they're gonna hear what we're talking about and be like, man, that guy just read my mail. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right? And for some people, they're like, yeah, I have no idea what he's talking about. But, like, this is a great exercise and, like, if it's for you, take it. If not, don't worry about it. Like, chew up the meat, spit out the bones.
Speaker 3:And so, like, if some of these things are hitting home with you, like, if you are relating to these, like, there's an opportunity for you to bring these to God and to say, God, I see myself like this. Can you please can you please make me more like you? Can you please, can you please tend to my heart?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think I think for some of us, mentors as well as kids probably identify more in the orphan column of this conversation. And we had our church service the other day and, one of our kids was acting up and you had asked, hey, who wants who wants to come forward and pray on the microphone? Which is, like, in our program, that's that is the role that you get to play in the church service, and he did not get called on. And he started freaking out just that you didn't call on him and I mean he was crying, he was rolling, it wasn't like a holy roller church thing.
Speaker 2:It was like he was in agony. And I pulled him outside, because it was so distracting and I asked him what what what he needed and he was just like I just I just want to be seen. When I raise my hand I want someone to call on me. I'm never chosen. I'm never this.
Speaker 2:I'm never that. And I I took a second and acknowledged his pain and his response to that situation, and then I brought him to that scripture where Jesus says, when you pray, go to a place, close the door, when your father who sees you in secret, he will reward you. And I asked him what he thought that meant, and he he sat there for a second and I could see that his wheels were turning. And even in that moment, I was thinking what is this kid thinking? He doesn't know his his earthly father.
Speaker 2:So when he hears a scripture that says go close the door and your father who sees you in secret, he will reward you, I was trying to engage with how he was reading that and seeing it. And his response was he just closed his eyes really tight and just started and then I asked him, what did you just do? He was like, well, I can't tell you because I want a reward. And in a way, it was just a really beautiful moment for him to attach, I guess, this biblical promise of your father hears you in secret. You don't have to be called on for me to listen to you and see you.
Speaker 2:And I think for all of our mentors, there is there is this responsibility for us to teach and show and model the spirit of a son for the boys that we're mentoring. And to be with our kids in that space of having the orphan spirit, on one side feeling the pain of that because I I think there is obviously a father wound that's leading us to the orphan spirit response. But then there's also an opportunity to lead our boys into sonship and and into a response that's, yeah, that's different.
Speaker 3:If you haven't listened to our series called the 3 a's, relationships change lives, please go back and hear it. Because my kids, like my own physical children, and I hope that the young men that I mentor, they don't need to fight for attention because they're gonna get it from me. They don't need to fight for acceptance or for affirmation because I'm gonna give it to them. And not only that, but I'm gonna point them to God who's gonna give it to them every time that they ask for it.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And because they're secure in that, because they know where their needs are gonna get met, they don't have to go fight for attention by getting into a fight. They don't have to go fight for acceptance by being the crazy kid at a party. They don't have to go fight for affirmation by joining a gang because they're secure, because they know where their next meal is coming from, because they know who's gonna meet their needs, Because they know that they're gonna be taken care of by their father. Right? And so this father wound, like, it's kind of the foundation of everything.
Speaker 3:Like, there is a need behind the deed. And these kids are doing all these deeds, and on the surface, you're like, why are they doing this? How come all these kids are out there having sex? Like, well, it's because they have a need, and the need is love. And they have that need, and the deed that they're doing is sex.
Speaker 3:But the foundation of that is they're searching for love because they don't have any, because their love tank is empty. Right? How come kids join gangs? Well, I'll tell you why kids join gangs. Because they just wanna feel loved, because they wanna feel a part of a family, and they've never had that.
Speaker 3:And so this father wound, like, even even in a good way, like, man, that kid, like, he made a 98 on a test and he is so upset, he's so angry. Well, his outburst to not making a perfect score, the need behind that is the need to be perfect because he thinks I have to be perfect in order to get what I need. The father wound is, like, God created us to get our needs met in family. Like, family is the answer. It is the solution.
Speaker 3:And when that solution is broken down, it messes up everything.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And, like, yeah, there are certain degrees, like, not having a dad or having your dad pass away or having him leave, like, that that's really hard. But even if you had a dad, if he wasn't there for you emotionally, or if he was only a provider, but he didn't do the emotional stuff, like, that's going to impact you as well. And so, like, this is some serious stuff and, like, God cares a lot about this and the enemy does too, which is why he goes after it. I said in our very first episode about the father factor that I believe that the impact of a father, whether it's fatherlessness or whatever, is the most important topic in America. It's the foundation of all the bad stuff that's going on, and the enemy knows that.
Speaker 3:And that's why he's attacking the family. Right? In the garden, he went after the family, and he hasn't stopped. He's still doing it today.
Speaker 2:This episode really sheds light on just giving us more empathy for those who operate in an orphan spirit because it it's not just kids that have an orphan spirit as adults. We can have a tendency to lean toward the orphan spirit, and we have to come back to the Lord and receive from God what he's promised us in our identity as sons. Oh, yeah. And and and not only that, but also the experiences of the father wound that that we need to have empathy for one another whether you're a rich kid in Highland Park who has a father wound with your dad who was always working and not available to you've never met your dad and you live in Vickery Meadows. And both both of those situations, there's there's pain to deal with, and we're all in process.
Speaker 2:And I think that that creates a greater level of empathy for all all mentors
Speaker 3:and all mentees. These next symptoms, like, I see these in adults all the time. Like, their value is based on what they do, not not whose they are, not who they are. Hurts and disappointments and pains, like, orphan spirit says ignore them. Don't deal with it.
Speaker 3:Like, what's gonna happen if you let that skeleton out of out of the closet? But a son deals with them head on. In orphan spirit. Right? Like, they're terrified of intimacy or or of authenticity.
Speaker 3:Right? Like, I can't let people know that I failed. I can't tell them what's really going on because they believe that if someone knew the real me, then they wouldn't love me or they wouldn't accept me. I think one of the craziest things is and this has happened, couple of times to me, a guy who I thought I knew really really well, like a guy who I would talk to every week And then all of a sudden I find out that there's this laundry list of, like, pretty major sins and I'm, like, I had no idea. Like, you just got divorced?
Speaker 3:I didn't even know that you were having issues in your marriage. Like, you're an alcoholic? I didn't even know that that was a problem because, like, that fear of being authentic, of being known, of being intimate, it's terrifying. Or emotions. Right?
Speaker 3:Like, an orphan suppresses emotions out of fear. Like, I don't wanna deal with that. Like, that's gonna be more than I can handle. Or forgiveness, like holding grudges and things like that. I see that all the time in, like, adults who have great jobs, who are good people.
Speaker 3:And then just like growth, like growing. They're scared to grow because they might fail or, like, taking risks. Like, their worth is tied into their actions. So if they take a risk and fail, then, like, they're a failure. And just like how how other people see you, like, faking it, like, yeah, everything's great.
Speaker 3:Everything's fine. Oh, yeah. Because I just talked to your wife and she said that you guys are oh, well, she's she's not telling the truth.
Speaker 2:You know wives.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You know wives. But, like, that happens more than I would like to admit.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And just and that's just pride, and that's fear. Like, if people knew the real me, what would they think?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And, like, presuming the worst, like, I can't I can't have this conversation because what if this happens, then this will happen, then this will happen, then this will happen. It's it's just you're believing the worst. And then there's anger, like holding a grudge and not forgiving and kind of faking it and all of these things, like, they're gonna take a toll on you. And then you have a $500 reaction to a 5ยข problem. Like, my kid drew on the couch.
Speaker 3:And, like, yeah, like, that hurts. Like, my couch, you know, I found it on Craigslist for, like, 2.50. But still, like, he drew on the couch, and I, like, blew up at him. And then I had to go in my room and be, like, okay, Lord, why did I do that? And the Lord in his kindness was, like, well, Zach, let me take you down that path.
Speaker 3:Like, this happened last week and you didn't process it. You didn't forgive this person. You are in sin in these different areas. You haven't spent time with me in 2 weeks. And I'm like, oh, Lord.
Speaker 3:So that's where it's coming out. Because when you suppress, when you hide, when you keep all the stuff in the darkness, it's going to come out. Like, it will come out. It just comes out in ways that you never imagined. You find yourself addicted to gambling or an alcoholic or having an affair, and you're like, how did I get here?
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Because so often, it's not you made 2 major wrong choices. It's you made 2,000 small choices
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That you didn't think would affect you. And then you look back and you're like, how did I get here? And that's Satan, like, he lies. Oh, that's not a big deal. You don't have to deal with that.
Speaker 3:Don't don't mess with that. That's only gonna whereas a son is like, if the Lord says, Zach, you're part of my family, and I want you to be authentic. I want you to be vulnerable. Be intimate with people. Trust that I'll take care of you.
Speaker 3:You can deal with your emotions. You can receive love. For so long, it was so hard for me to receive love. Like, when someone was like, hey, Zach. Great job.
Speaker 3:I couldn't say thank you. Oh, well, that just happened because, you know, well, thanks, but God gets all of the credit, and they're like, did God put in 40 hours this past week on that thing? And I'm like, well, no. But right? And, like, yes, God God did give me the skills and things like that.
Speaker 3:But also, like, I worked really hard on that, And it's okay to be like, hey, thank you. Thank you. For so long with my wife, like, it was hard to receive love. It was really hard to believe that she loved me period, end of story. I had to earn, like, I had to buy her flowers.
Speaker 3:I had to do the dishes I had to. Now, all those are good things, But that's not the foundation of our love. As a as a son, like, God wants you to grow. He wants you to take risks. He wants you to know that you're secure.
Speaker 3:End of story, period. Like, I will take care of you. He wants you to release your anger and to deal with hard stuff because he wants your heart to be pure. He wants you to be clean. Hey, guys.
Speaker 3:Like, the most important thing here is what I talked about last episode is there's 3 types of people. Right? There's one who denies. The next one is someone who's obsessed with this. And the last thing that I want you to do is be like, man, they just listed off 37 boxes and I checked 35 of them.
Speaker 3:Right? And it just sends you into this like tailspin of like shame and guilt and fear. The last thing that I want you to do is to be overwhelmed by this. But instead, I want you to be that 3rd person and don't deny it, but go to the Lord and say, God, can you show me in my heart areas that I need to deal with so I can become more like you? Talk to people.
Speaker 3:Get what's in the dark into the light, like process this stuff and just continue taking small steps forward. But I don't want this to overwhelm you, and, I don't want you to sit in fear. But I do want to provoke you, and I do want this to be a tool that the Lord uses to help you become more like him.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And all the responses of someone responding from an orphan spirit, that means they long to be a son. Like all of their responses are a longing for sonship. So I I think that's just good to point out that it's it's not it's not a longing for something else. It's a longing for sonship, which I I think if if anyone listening feels like they're in that category.
Speaker 2:Like, God wants you whole.
Speaker 3:Like, God wants to heal. God redeems. He restores. He turns beauty into ashes. Like, he wants you to be free from this stuff.
Speaker 3:Like, there's freedom in the Lord. And, yeah, it takes some work to get there sometimes, but ultimately, he wants what's best for you. And what's best for you is you to be free from this stuff. And to truly be a son who is secure, who trusts in their father, who knows that they have a spot in the family and a seat at the table, and that all of their needs will be taken care of.
Speaker 2:Amen. Thanks for listening to today's episode. We realized today's episode was like drinking from a fire hydrant. So please check out our show notes. We'll leave a link to some more resources related to signs and symptoms of an orphan spirit, the father wound.
Speaker 2:And we highly encourage you to follow us on the social medias at youcanmentorfacebook.com/youcanmentor. It's youcanmentor everything. So please just search You Can Mentor. You'll find us. You can subscribe to our podcast so you can follow with us in this series called The Father Factor.
Speaker 2:We highly encourage you if you missed the last few episodes. Go listen to those right now. If you'd like to connect with us, we are all about email. You can email us at hello@ukementor.com. Zach is actually a professional emailer.
Speaker 2:That's right, baby. And if there's one thing you picked up from today's episode, let it be this. You can mentor.