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A podcast focusing on the perspectives, lives, and stories of Kansans to provide greater insight into the state we all call home.
AAK_Ep49
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New Mugs
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[00:00:00]
Sydney Collins: You haven't noticed. We got new mugs. Yay.
Gus Applequist: New mugs.
Sydney Collins: So, and it was actually kind of accidental. We were gonna reorder the gray ones and they were out. Like, bistro cups are really popular. I didn't realize this until, actually, I think the other day when I was, I have two coffee cups that I love at home and they're both bistro mugs.
And I didn't realize they were bistro mugs until I was like, oh, we were out of bistro mugs. But then we found these, and they may look a little purple, but I promise they're navy. They match, they match kind of what we do, but they kind of look like the night sky, like the Kansas night scar. There's some speckles, there's speckles in it.
Gus Applequist: Mm-hmm.
Sydney Collins: They're real pretty. And I really like it.
[00:01:00]
Meet Rolf Potts
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Gus Applequist: Welcome to Ask Kansan,
Sydney Collins: a podcast where we're amplifying, connecting and uncovering Kansas.
Gus Applequist: And today we have, uh, an episode with, uh, an interesting guy. His name is Rolf Potts.
Sydney Collins: Yes. Rolf is a native Kansan that has been doing some really cool things that you don't think most Kansans do,
Gus Applequist: such as travel writing and screenwriting and other stuff as well.
Other stuff. Uh, Rolf is just an interesting guy. So without any further ado, here's Rolf.
Well, welcome.
Sydney Collins: Welcome.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Come on.
Rolf Potts: Thanks
Sydney Collins: guys.
Rolf Potts: Alright.
Sydney Collins: How's it going?
Rolf Potts: It's going good.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Awesome.
Gus Applequist: Well thanks for being on the podcast today. Uh, we, we like to start by having our guests introduce themselves for our audience. So would you be as kind to do that please?
Rolf Potts: Yeah. I'm Rolf Potts. Uh, I'm a fourth or fifth generation Kansan.
Grew up in Wichita. I'm best known as a travel writer and author, um, which is [00:02:00] something I've been doing for a long time. And actually the world of travel media has changed so much since I got my first byline. The magazines I dreamed of writing about when I was young don't exist anymore. and so now I'm, I'm navigating that world, but still doing travel writing.
I love, uh, I also teach, uh, writing, uh, most notably at, uh, the Paris Writing Workshops every summer in Europe. I'm married to Kiki, who I just watched you interview before. Yeah, before me. Uh, and I'm excited to come and talk about all manner of things, including Kansas.
Gus Applequist: Wonderful.
Curiosity From Teachers
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Gus Applequist: Well, I'm gonna kind of go back to your childhood briefly.
Mm-hmm. Um, so you're the son of two school teachers from Wichita. Your mom Alice, taught second grade for 30 years. And your dad, George, taught high school biology. So how did growing up in a household of educators shape the way you see the world and tell stories about it?
Rolf Potts: That's a great question. I'm glad you asked it.
It, it made me realize that curiosity is everything. You know, my, my parents taught kids to be curious because if you're curious then you can sort of [00:03:00] educate yourself, right? That if you can be curious, then you get excited about things. and so I've said that as a travel writer, curiosity has served me really well because you become curious about wherever you are instead of looking for what you're supposed to see when you go to a place.
and I write about in my most recent book that one of my, some of my best tools as a trial writer had been being raised by teachers. 'cause I used to go on field trips with my science teacher, dad to Kansas. And I'm like, there's nothing here. He is like, well actually the, the grass you see have roots that go 20 feet down and one of those roots, there's, there's dinosaur bones from when Kansas was an ocean.
And so, Awareness, I think is, is one of my biggest blessings and privileges. You know, that I had parents that were, they were educators who, uh, I would come home from school and learn more from them and, and sort of, foster that sense of creativity. Uh, and so it's fun. My dad is 86 and he has a YouTube channel about sustainable energy, so,
Gus Applequist: yeah.
Travel Bug And Vagabonding
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Gus Applequist: I'm curious, like how early did the tra, did the travel bug bite, [00:04:00] you know, was that, uh, was that in elementary school or, or where did it come from?
Rolf Potts: It's something that I just sort of grew up assuming that you lived for summer vacation, when you went on summer vacation.
Uh, and so I went to Coffey County in eastern Kansas where my mother's family was from. I went to Colorado, like my wife Kiki. I sort of had ACEC childhood that was, spent the summers in Colorado, usually on the front range near Colorado Springs. and I just sort of, it was part of my happiness, you know, travel was something that I just loved to do, but it's something that I didn't really feel like I had permission to do.
Uh, and it felt like it was the, the reign of, you know, or the realm of counterculture people from California or rich people or something, that it is something that you did when you were given permission to, at the end of your life to travel. Uh, and so my first and most well known book Vagabonding is sort of a letter to my teenage self to say, no, you just have to give yourself permission.
it's not something that you buy, it's something you give to yourself. and so I think. yeah, the [00:05:00] earliest seeds of travel were very near, but I didn't realize that I could travel internationally. And since then I've traveled, traveled a lot, but I sort of had to get past those first apprehensions about thinking I couldn't before I allowed myself to do so.
Finding A Writing Life
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Gus Applequist: And, and where, how about writing? When did you realize that writing was gonna be a part of your profession? I guess,
Rolf Potts: also similar. I, I wasn't sure how I could be a writer, how I could have permission to be a writer. Um, but I always loved. Writing and being creative. When I was seven years old, I wrote a book about dinosaurs.
You know, it was just sort of a little boy thing to do. You know, you write about what, what interests you. I, I hand illustrated it. But then as I got older, I, I started reading Stephen King stories and started writing horror stories. And then I liked reading Dave Barry, who's probably the columnist, uh, for the Miami Herald back in the eighties before you guys' time.
Um, and so I started writing, um, columns for my school newspaper and just sort of what I enjoyed reading. I would try to write a version of what I would read, eventually [00:06:00] that led to my earliest bylines, which I was in my late twenties really before I got any serious bylines. that dovetailed with travel and travel writing has been my milieu ever since.
I've done other kinds of writing, but people know me as a travel writer. Uh, and it's such a, an exciting thing to write about
What Travel Writing Is
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Gus Applequist: now when you say travel writing. I imagine some people are thinking like guidebooks.
Rolf Potts: Mm mm
Gus Applequist: And that's not what you're talking about. Could you kind of spell that out for us?
Rolf Potts: Yeah. So I write what would be called probably minimalistic travel writing. when I teach my travel writing classes, we talk about the different categories of travel writing. You have guidebook writing or service writing. Uh, you have travel news, uh, you have travel, social media, uh, and then you, but then you have more minimalistic, personally slanted travel writing.
And that's sort of what I've leaned into my second book, Marco Polo Didn't Go there was a collection of travel essays that I've, that I've written, uh, working on, on a new book, which is more reported. And the great thing about that kind of travel writing, which, which, um, I don't know if I would be a very good guidebook [00:07:00] writer, you know, I'd be too busy following whatever, whatever interests me, then to find out how much it costs to stay at this hotel.
Um, but travel writing is a, that, that kind of memoir to travel writing splits the line between, reported journalism and personal memoir and and personal memoir can often be personal at the expense of the outside world. And, journalistic writing can be repertorial at the expense of the personal.
Uh, there's that old joke about the, the journalist who went into a bar to get a drink and he got shot in the shoulder and he staggered across the street and wrote A journalist was allegedly shot this week at a bar across the street from the newspaper. Like journal. The rules of journalism don't allow you to be personal when in fact admitting that your point of view.
is a part of what you're seeing, I think is a part, uh, is a, a part of honesty. And, and so, I think one interesting thing that travel writers have is we're in a liminal space. We're traveling in cultures that are not our own. So we can't speak as experts about other cultures, be it Papua New Guinea or Western Kansas.
Right? But, uh, [00:08:00] it allows you to admit to your reader that you are there, that you are the audience, you are this person, and you are perceiving this place, uh, with the fresh eyes of an outsider. and it's been fun. It's been a challenge. Uh. But it's, it's such a fascinating, um, genre to be writing for. And one funny thing, when I was first a travel writer years ago in the late nineties, I would get a lot of, uh, emails.
This is before social media from people saying, how did you become a travel writer? I didn't know. So I started interviewing a travel writer a month, from my website for wolf post.com. I've been doing that for 25 years this year. Uh, and Congrats. Thanks. Yeah. And it's, you know, everyone from, you know, my heroes like Pico io ier and Tim Cahill to, you know, people like David Grand who wrote Killers of The Flower Moon and have, have become quite famous since I interviewed them to young people in travel bloggers and social media people and YouTubers.
Uh, and so I've taken pride in being open to interviewing a little bit of everybody on that. And I've learned a lot just by talking to other people about what they think travel writing is. So,
Gus Applequist: Hmm.
Offbeat Destinations
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Gus Applequist: [00:09:00] we haven't talked about like where you've been to, to tell these stories.
So like I imagine you go some of the places everybody hopefully makes it to in their life, like Paris and London, but also you've been some places far more, off the beaten path, so to speak.
Rolf Potts: Yeah. Um, actually I'm, I'm one of those weird Americans who didn't go to Europe first. Like, I didn't go on the school trip to, to like 10 European cities in three days type thing.
Mm-hmm. probably 'cause I did sports in college and just never found time for it. And so I taught English in Korea for a couple of years. Talk about a place that's changed a lot over the, over the years, like Korea is this powerhouse and pop culture. Oh, yeah. And when I was there in the nineties, that was just, just sort of be like, the kids that I tutored are now like studio execs in Korea.
It's been, it's been really fun to see. And so I actually entered Europe for the first time over the Euro Mountains on the trans Siberian train. Right. That's
Gus Applequist: so cool.
Rolf Potts: Yeah. Yeah. I, I'm very proud of that. And I think, and this sort of ties into my ness, is that [00:10:00] I sharpened my teeth writing about places that most people overlooked, or most people wouldn't go to, or most people didn't take the trouble to seek out.
Uh, uh. And so I've, I've been to Paris, but I've, I'm, I'm more well known for writing about places like Myanmar or India or Indonesia or, you know, Chile. and so it's been fun to, to sort of split the difference to go to these. In fact, I was such a snob. I, I traveled, I traveled to so many, I traveled like 40 or 50 countries before I went to Paris.
I thought, how, what does Paris have for me? Well, it's the most beautiful city in the world and I've been there like 25 summers in a row since then. but to be able to have both of that, and you guys have quite recently talked to my wife Kiki, I had the pleasure of taking her on, on really hard dirt bag travel in the South Pacific for the first time, a couple of summers ago.
and, and it was, it was fun to see, I mean. We slept in, you know, piles of cigarettes and peanut [00:11:00] shells on the, on the, the, the deck of a Vanuatu ferry because the airline went outta business, you know, right before we went to that part of the world. Oh no. And that's not fun, but it's really re it's really memorable.
You know, we talk about those nights and we stayed on an island called, uh, in the South Pacific with no running water or electricity. and it was not always fun to stay there, but it was super memorable just, just to sort of how pe to see how people lived there and how there isn't a lot of helicopter par parenting on URA peeve.
And the kids just sort of run around in packs 'cause everybody knows each other. Uh, and it's sort of a, a ACEC childhood that maybe our great-great-great-great grandparents had, but we've sort of been modernized out of having this more familial relationship to our own community. And so that's been really fun to see.
Yeah. I go to some pretty obscure places and I love writing about obscure places, but man, I love the Paris and Londons and Buenos Aires of the world as well.
Travel As Education
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Gus Applequist: I'll probably misattribute the quote. I, I, I think it's Abraham Lincoln said that the, the [00:12:00] antithesis of ignorance is travel. Hmm.
Or something. I, I'm, I don't think I've got it quite right there, but if that's the case, then, then you're not a very ignorant person.
Rolf Potts: Right, right. Well, travel is a, is a great education. Uh, and I think that a lot of, a lot of young people who've read my book and email me are, are, are, are sort of angsty about educational decisions when they're young.
And in, in, in the UK and Europe, you have a gap year where you, it's sort of a, a socially sanctioned time between high school and college. You take a year off and if you don't travel, then you go and you volunteer or do some sort of, Manual labor type work. And it gives you a really great perspective, uh, because I think sometimes people as 18-year-old freshmen go to college and they don't really know what they wanna do.
And sometimes you can go off and travel the world and find out what you love to do or try out what you thought you loved to do, but you don't actually know that you loved. I've taught at some fairly elite colleges, um, on the East Coast and my students are really nervous about [00:13:00] getting fellowships to do this or, you know, getting credit for doing that on the other side of the world.
And it's like, just have fun, you know? Hmm. You know, drink too much and make out with a stranger, it's fine. You know, you're, you're 19 years old and if you're smart, you're gonna wake up. And despite what your parents are worried about, you're gonna wake up and you're gonna look at the agriculture, the architecture, or the crafts in that village, and suddenly you're gonna be teaching yourself, even sometimes with a sun burner of a hangover about how beautiful the world is.
You're gonna learn new languages to flirt with strangers. You're going to, um, suddenly realize that going back to, you know, my parents being educators, you're gonna harness your cre your curiosity, and you're just gonna find ways to educate yourself. It, it's, it's so great. and I think there's a, there's a lot of ways as Americans that we can find ways to disparage travel is something that's irresponsible, but I think travel, if you allow it to be, um, can be the best education.
Planning Versus Spontaneity
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Gus Applequist: in full disclosure, I'm leaving for a trip today after this. And there's a tension in my [00:14:00] marriage.
Rolf Potts: Okay.
Gus Applequist: And the tension is between my need for our travel to be spontaneous and unplanned. And my wife's anxiety about that.
Rolf Potts: Hmm.
Gus Applequist: And how she really, uh, her anxiety is reduced by planning.
Rolf Potts: Hmm.
Gus Applequist: And so, as you can imagine, she wins and that's great. And I'm not complaining about that whatsoever. But we plan, we plan things pretty meticulously.
Rolf Potts: Mm.
Gus Applequist: yeah. How, how can I, like, how can we manage that tension between planning trips to where every moment is this choreographed thing where just acting out and this thing that can make people anxious of not having a plan and just seeing what happens.
Rolf Potts: Well, there's a line from my first book, Vagabonding, which is Know your options, but not your destiny. So I'm a big plan, a fan of planning. But as long as you have the confidence and willingness to throw those plans away once you see something wonderful. Because I think planning, sometimes it takes away the anxiety of the uncertainty of travel, [00:15:00] but oftentimes, and another thing I say a lot is that we're so much smarter after a few days in a new place that the somewhat informed, but mostly ignorant person who is planning online back home is not as smart as this person who's like.
Holy crap, there's a music festival going on right now, or there's a, you know, the, the, the village kids are playing a soccer game and I was invited to play with them, you know? Hello? And so I think one, one thing that helps with this is, is planning more time. one thing about vagabonding, which is the philosophy that goes into my first book is it's long term travel.
It's, it's traveling for, you know, a a month instead of four days. It's traveling for a year instead of a month. Uh, it's giving yourself permission to travel more slowly. And I think that sometimes if we see travel as more of a, a, a confined experience, we see it as a consumer option. And so we bring our consumer anxieties into it.
Uh, and so if you can find a way to slow down, maybe do less and [00:16:00] experience more, just slow down and relax and. Check fewer things off the checklist, then you don't have to worry as much about planning in advance. And I don't wanna disparage your, your wife's approach, you know, because that, that probably is how she gives herself permission to travel too.
But the more you do it, and the slower you go, the more you realize that, okay, we know everything that we could do in this village. Now what do we really wanna do? Because there's one thing about learning about a place, but there's another thing about smelling it. And suddenly it's like, is that a pastry shop?
Let's, let's go to that pastry shop. Let, let's cancel our, our plans to do this on this day. And let's eat a pastry and, and sit at the edge of the village and, and see what's going on. Tell me where you're going.
Gus Applequist: I going to Australia.
Rolf Potts: Have you been there
Gus Applequist: before? Yeah, I have been fortunate and have, uh, my wife has not.
Rolf Potts: Okay.
Gus Applequist: And we're going a few different places than I've been. So
Rolf Potts: it's a very user friendly place in part 'cause, you know, most people speak English and, um, Australians are great travelers and very gregarious friendly people. So you're in for a treat.
[00:17:00]
Meeting Kiki In Kansas
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Gus Applequist: in our previous episode with your wife Kiki, uh, we kind of heard how you guys met and, and you know, the beginnings of your relationship.
I know it, it kind of came out of COVID and, and all of that. Could, could you just kind of give us your perspective?
Sydney Collins: I wanna, yeah, I wanna know your perspective, your perspective on this.
Rolf Potts: Well, it, it, it's funny that, uh, Kiki traveled around the world and was also very pathetic, not living in one place, but I actually got my land here in tandem with my parents who lived next door to me in 2005.
So last year was my 20th anniversary of living in Celine County, but I was sort of. I'm sad to say, sort of living like an expatriate in Saline County. You know, like sometimes the expatriates, they, they, they go to a place, but they don't really become a part of the culture. Mm-hmm. You know, they hang out with other people that are like them.
Uh, before I [00:18:00] met Kiki, I dated a woman in New York for a long time, and another woman in London for a long time. And so I sort of came to Kansas and I enjoyed being sort of a hermit in a misanthrope and not, and like going, you know, for, for drinks or, you know, to shop at the, the DAV or the Central Mall or whatever.
But I didn't really commit myself to this community in a way that I could have. and so this was a family place, but not necessarily, uh, a place where I sought to, to get community. So, long story short, after years of living here and not really being committed to a place, I was stuck here during COVID, during the winter, met Kiki on, on a dating app online.
And you know, it, it went from hello to Will You Marry Me Very Quickly. We were literally, we were lit, married literally a year to the day after we had our first date. but then suddenly Kiki's like, well, why don't you know that many people in this community? And so, so she's like, she's a bakery inline and you've never been, you know, and so suddenly I was being [00:19:00] shamed by this woman I loved.
And just realizing that I could be more a part of the community I'd been living near, but not as a part of for a long time.
Sydney Collins: Hmm.
Rolf Potts: And there were some years when I was based in Kansas that I would be overseas or in other places for nine months a year. Mm-hmm. or when I was teaching for my Ivy League schools, I was gone, you know, for semesters at a time.
But then suddenly, uh, one of the great joys of of meeting her, uh, was that suddenly I could reinvent my way of being in this place that I lived for a long time. So it's, it's been, it's been a fun experience and we've been growing together in this place, that we've, that we really love.
Screenwriting Origins
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Gus Applequist: So, so the theme of this month of podcasts is, is filmmaking, and we haven't gotten to that yet.
And so I figured now is as good a time as any, was film filmmaking and, and films in general part of your life prior to meeting Kiki.
Rolf Potts: Oddly enough, it was, um, years ago at the very beginning of my writing career. This is like level five Rolf Potts trivia. I, I lived in a [00:20:00] van and, uh, traveled,
Sydney Collins: sorry,
Rolf Potts: what's that?
Gus Applequist: Down
Sydney Collins: by the river. Down by the river.
Rolf Potts: Down by the river. No, yeah. Of that generation where I watch those Saturday Night Live with Matt Foley. Um, and now they call it hashtag Van Life. It's a very fashionable Instagram thing.
Sydney Collins: It's a thing.
Rolf Potts: Yeah. No, I was just a dirt bag
Sydney Collins: a little bit.
Rolf Potts: I was just a dirt bag sleeping in a van with my buddy and, and traveling around.
I tried to write a book about it and I failed in part because I was pretty good at writing sentences, but I wasn't very good at telling stories. And so it wasn't until I studied screenwriting that I realized that. There's a storytelling structure that should be su superimposed on anything. So I actually taught myself to be a good essay writer by learning screenwriting.
I wrote a, I wrote a screenplay, like a really Bad Pulp Fiction Ripoff in 1995 for a company called The Asylum, who years later made the Sharknados franchise.
Gus Applequist: I was gonna say, I think I've heard, heard of. I was like, I've
Sydney Collins: heard of them.
Rolf Potts: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's, it's so funny. God bless those guys. But, yeah, I was, I was writing a script for them not really knowing.
I was like writing a screenplay and [00:21:00] like reading books about screenplays at the same time. And I never became a screenplay through that, a screenwriter through that avenue. But I learned a lot about StoryCraft through that, that I still teach to my students in Paris every summer. and so, yeah, that, uh, screenwriting has been on my radar for a long time.
And I've written but not had produced feature length screenplays before. I wrote a, a screenplay about, uh, a baseball game in Wichita in 1925 that made to a, the finalist of the Austin Film Festival. Oh, wow. Um, back in 2017. This is before I met Kiki. and so that craft has always interested me. But then once I met her, uh, then it's like, well, let's do, let's make a movie together.
And so we made a short film and that's, that's been fun. it's been another crash course, but it's been really fun way to see, to take story craft into a, a new direction using, uh, a kind of writing that I had experience in, but not really in the applied way. And it was so funny to, to co-write that script with her because she had been on so many movie sets and, you know, dramatic stages and, and, uh, [00:22:00] TV sets as well.
And so she had a perspective from a professional, you know, someone who's been using a script, in front of a camera. Uh, and so that gave me a new perspective. It, it was, it was really fun. And, and again, speaking, how about how travel can be a good education in life? I think making a movie with your actress wife can be a good education in filmmaking, right?
Mm-hmm.
Making A Kansas Short Film
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Sydney Collins: What was that transition between. Like just writing the script and then having to produce because you kind of step into a whole nother role.
Rolf Potts: Right? Well, uh, I think part of being independent, like for years, like even though I was a finalist at Austin, and actually I was a semifinalist at, uh, the Nickel, which was the, the academy, the, the, the big Oscars competition every year.
But, and Matt, and, and, and a nickel will leave him with 5 cents. Right? You know, that, you can either ask permission to have companies produce your script or you can write a script and find a way to produce it yourself. And so Kiki and I [00:23:00] co-wrote the script, but we also co-executive produced it. An executive producer can have a gazillion definitions.
It can be someone who has a hundred thousand dollars to give and then they get an EP credit. Um, there's sometimes, uh, a well-known filmmaker will put their name as an EP on a project to sort of help the profile of that. So, like when Kevin Wilmont, the Great Kansas filmmaker made CSA, which is wonderfully hilarious satire, spike Lee said, I'm gonna put my name on that as an ep, as an executive producer, to raise the profile of that film.
Mm-hmm. neither of those apply to our job as ep. Ours was just trying to raise money, trying to make it happen, trying to find a director and an a, an actual producer and actors and crew who could make it happen. And so for the, all, all of the dozens of ways an executive producer can be defined. Our way of EP was, we wrote this script, we love, let's find a way to shoot it in Kansas.
And because it was [00:24:00] Kiki's script, she wanted to shoot it with as many Kansas women as possible. and you know, she, as she said in your podcast, she testified before Topeka about film incentives, we don't have them. So she refused to shoot in Oklahoma or Arkansas, which have more film incentives. And so it's like, how do we, how do we scrape together a production in this place where we love?
And we literally shot min many parts of it on our own property because it comes from a, an incident that happened on our property involving a game camera, which is the name of our film. and so then, yeah, I, I, I learned so much, and I think this is a very 21st century thing too, that 50 years ago. It would've been astronomically expensive and there would've been no crew at all.
Whereas now in the digital age, it's more and more possible to, to go DIY to to do some sort of do it yourself production. And we had the advantage of is that I've been a professional writer for, for years, and I've been published by some, some big publishers in New York, and she's been, on TV shows that people watched [00:25:00] even by accident Law and Order.
You know, that's always playing somewhere in the world.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Rolf Potts: Um, and so we were able to bring a, a professional perspective to it, but it was still very do it yourself. Um, we brought in, Bri Elrod who, uh, has been in, who's a Kansas actor, who's been in some great production, including Red Rocket, which was by Sean Parker.
Is it Sean Parker? That's the Facebook, not the Facebook guy. That's the, um, Sean Baker. Sean Baker, yeah. Who won the Oscar for a Nora. Um, oh yeah. So Brie was, uh, Brie was. In his previous movie. So we were able to, to bring a really high level SAG certified, uh, cast, and then a real hard Scrabble crew of mostly Kansas women, but then some people from Arkansas who our director brought in from a university.
She teaches that there. And it was just, it was an amazing experience and it's been fun. Short films are not usually reviewed, but I swear to you, like two weeks ago I opened Kansas History Magazine and our short film was reviewed just after somebody somewhere and just before Wicked. Nice. And, and it was a very positive review.
Yeah. [00:26:00] Yeah. But it was, it was the kind of review, it's like, gosh, we should talk to our producer Carolina, put this on the poster. Like the, it was, it was a very warm review. Uh, and so it, it was so hard and it was so not cheap and it was so difficult, but it was such. Such a satisfying experience. Um, and we have that sort of as a calling card now.
There's different things that short films can do, and one of 'em is a calling card for what you can do as a writer, as an actor, as as producers, as people who want to represent Kansas as people who can say, this is what Kansas looks like in front of the camera. It doesn't have to be a backdrop in California, like it was the case for Dorothy.
You know, or the wide open plains of Alberta, Canada as it is for Superman, you know? Mm-hmm. That you can shoot movies about Kansas in Kansas and bring a truth to that narrative that you wouldn't have otherwise. So we're, we're very proud, um, of our short film.
[00:27:00]
Kansas Never Plays Itself
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Gus Applequist: you recently put out a documentary, uh, a feature length documentary on your YouTube channel.
Um, that's, it's really excellent. It's, yeah. Can you first of all just tell our audience a little bit about it?
Rolf Potts: It's called Kansas Play. Uh, Kansas never Plays itself, uh, which is a callback to a famous essay film called Los Angeles Plays itself, which is by a film critic named Tom Anderson, who uses found footage from movies to sort of show how Los Angeles gets fictionalized in movies that Los Angeles is sort of this metaphorical Hollywood, but what's it like to really live in Los Angeles outside of the entertainment [00:28:00] industry.
And his argument there is that Los Angeles always sort of has this warped sensibility. so I watched that film essay and I thought, wow, you know, you, you think you have bad in Los Angeles. Try being from Kansas. Where you could be on an island in the South Pacific and people will say, oh, you're not in Kansas anymore, are you?
You know, and so we're just up against this mythos. And so after having made the short film with Kiki and being an essayist myself and a travel writer who spends a lot of time reporting across cultures about other places, I thought I need to pay homage yet, uh, do a version of Los Angeles plays itself, but make a film called Kansas Never Plays Itself and explore what it means when you have Kansas' reputation hinged on movies that were set here but not shot here.
So when Kansas does show up at all, which it usually doesn't, is usually some cowboy movie where that that was shot. in California, or it's a [00:29:00] dystopian science fiction movie that was shot in Canada. It wasn't actually shot here. So, and this is something that come up against as a travel writer is like, what is it?
Like, how do you portray a play, what it's like to be in a place? And so it ended up being a feature length documentary, seven three minute long, uh, feature film that through different lenses, explores what it means to live in Kansas, what people see when they see Kansas on the screen, and how, how that differs to a certain extent.
And there's, there's a lot of tangents I go down to, but like, there's, there's this idea that Kansas is just sort of these wholesome white people, you know? and it's like our most famous filmmaker, one of our most accomplished filmmakers is Gordon Parks, you know? Yeah. Who, who made his first film The Learning Tree, was this, was this very, uh, involved drama about being black in Kansas.
Right. And so I think. If we just assume that the Kansas, that the wholesome Kansas, even in cold blood, which is about a true crime, about Kansans who got murdered Kansans, [00:30:00] are also very static. You know, um, that even the movies that had been made about the making or the writing Capote, for example, which is a wonderful Oscar nominated movie that's about the people who came to Kansas and killed Kansans, right?
Mm-hmm. nothing against Truman Capote, but it's like people live here in real time when they're not getting murdered or being swept up by tornadoes, right? And so how can we portray something true about this place, uh, in a way that goes beyond the stereotypes that we associate with it? And so that is almost a mission that I have as a travel writer.
Sure, I can go to Paris and write about the Eiffel Tower and the Aliza and eating escargo, but what is it like to go to the 18th Monzy and, and eat at a Senegalese restaurant that is just as Parisian as the, as the rest of Paris, right? And so I think it's looking for nuances and it's looking for the, the truer textures of a place, and it's realizing that.
A place isn't reduced to one story. You know, a story a place contains multitudes, and we can bring many stories out of it. And it sort of ties into what you talked about with Kiki about [00:31:00] film incentives. If you can't incentivize filming, you know, you know, bringing crews to film here, then Kansas will always be represented by a backdrop in Culver City, California, or a beautiful prairie that just happens to be in Canada and not Kansas.
You know? And so I don't think this is even something that falls along political lines, that it's not, it's not a liberal or conservative issue. It's just like, well, let's just show Kansas as it is. Let's find ways to tell Kansas stories in Kansas, and invite people to our beautiful state. I know that in, in your interview with her, you talked about hard beauty versus, or difficult beauty versus easy beauty.
And Kansas has a little bit of easy beauty, a lot of, a lot of step outside in the Flint Hills and say, wow, this is beautiful. But it also has some more. Hard won beauty and, I mean, I'm preaching to the choir. This is Ask of Kansan, right? Um, but I think that the more ways we can open our doors to storytellers and the more ways that we can slow down and be [00:32:00] receptive to a place like Kansas, the better stories we'll tell about it and the better it will be represented, be represented.
One thing that's often talked about these days is the attention economy. You know, that our attention is always going to hear. And one of the reactions I've gotten to Kansas never plays itself is that, why did you write about place? There's so many things like sense of place, like that's weird. You know, why not talk about movies or other things?
And it's like, well, we're losing our sense of place, you know, that we, our lives are going to these screens that we stare at all the time. And, and being embodied in a place is, is so special. And so the attention economy is part of a place where we're looking down at a screen. The, the metaphorical black mirror instead of looking out at where we are.
And so if we can slow down and pay attention to where we are, and not just move to a place, but let that place move through us, then we're more likely to be receptive to it and to be appreciate to appreciate where you are. I think a lot of, another thing that Kiki talked about in the interview is that people sort of make excuses for being in Kansas.
You know, they, they sort of [00:33:00] apologetically say they're from Kansas, but why not celebrate Kansas? Which is why it's cool to be on Ask a Kansan Right. because there, because there is things we should sit up and take pride because there are so many things to be proud of here.
Place And Storytelling
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Gus Applequist: One of the things you just said is so close to a, a question, um, that I.
My head prepared in a different question, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask, I'm gonna read this. It has been said that in storytelling setting begets character and character begets plot. So it goes missing from the stories we tell about the world when one place stands in for another. And I do want your reaction to that, but, but you know, we were talking to Ken Spurgeon the other day, uh, in an earlier episode in this series about sod and stubble and, and producing that film in Downs and about how, you know, he and his casting crew experienced the people of Downs.
Rolf Potts: Hmm.
Gus Applequist: And, and as I reflect on that, and, and you know, it's, this isn't, this isn't just about like the backdrop. It's not just about what's [00:34:00] going on, you know, in the camera's view. It's also about how the place you produce influences the thing you're producing. Where, you know, they experience the hospitality of.
Some of the descendants of the, the characters in their film.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm.
Gus Applequist: And how that changes the way you play a character and changes the way you shoot the movie. And so, yeah. I, I guess I don't have a question I'm asking. I'm just, I'm just saying that Yeah. I, I think it, it's not just about like the, the beautiful field in the background of the shot.
Rolf Potts: Yeah. No, I, I think that quote is from maybe Joseph Brodsky, I think, I think a novelist in, in my video I say, I quote Eudora Welty and Su Susan Sontag and some other people too, about the relationship of place to storytelling. But yeah, if, if setting be begets character, um, kin's film is a good example of that.
'cause this is literally about people who go and are beholden to place, you know, that they're, they're, they're settlers and they're sitting in this place and they can't avoid the weather. You know, they, they, they can't look at [00:35:00] their smartphone and see that there's a plague of locusts coming or whatever.
And so I think that, The truer the story is, or the, the true stories come out of landscape. I think, like I was talking about, Gordon Parks, the Learning Tree that's basically based on his youth in a place. And if you watch that story, the Learning Tree, it's about, it's about how the rule of law doesn't always apply to everybody along racial lines.
It's about how some people get, you know, uh, stereotyped in ways that other people don't. And that came out of his experience of Kansas. And there's something very true about learning Tree in that sense. And so I absolutely think that it's hard. Another tangent I go on, on the video, video essay is, you know, indigenous Stories and Sherman Alexia, the, the great, uh, native American novelists talked about how, for most Native Americans, they only feel comfortable.
Rehumanize Place Stories
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Rolf Potts: Telling stories about what they can see and experience, you know, that that basically telling stories about, about geographies that you don't, you [00:36:00] don't know is telling stories. As a white person, I think we forget that sometimes. I, I bring in our experience of going to the South Pacific and, and just how, a lot of the stories that are told in villages on UP for moula are specific to village ceremonies.
And so I guess we live in this mass media world where we're more and more, the division between stories in place is getting wider and wider because we, we see places as backdrops. And another thing I touch in touch on that is ai, right now we can have, AI can invent not just landscapes, but people, I mean that's part of what, what the, the actual strike was a few years ago that literally you can make an AI character now.
And we we're, we've sort of dehumanized so many aspects of storytelling. Uh, and a lot of it goes back to that idea of seeing places as backdrops. And so I think one way to rehumanize storytelling. In the face of AI and in the face of the attention economy, uh, is setting our stories in embodied places and drawing on the wisdom of those places to [00:37:00] tell the stories we tell.
Gus Applequist: we can, we can travel a lot as humans in this day and age. We can, we can see the world, we can, um, we can meet people, uh, from vastly different, um, backgrounds than our own.
Um, but, and, and we can have a few places that we maybe call home, but, but it's a finite number.
Kansas As Destination
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Gus Applequist: So for, for you and I, Kansas' Home, you have made a career out of. Creating destinations out of places that not everyone would think of as a destination. So how can we show the world that Kansas is also one of those destinations?
Rolf Potts: we can, we can tell stories that, that diversify people's understanding of what Kansas is.
I mean, a lot of people come to Kansas and they go to either the Oz Museum in Amigo or Dorothy's house in Liberal because they think that's what they wanna experience in Kansas. And so I think, just sort of conveying that subtlety, um, telling our own stories. Also, we no longer need to go through a [00:38:00] middleman we don't have to go through Hollywood stories to studios to tell our stories, so we can make a fun video on YouTube and upload it and, and see, see who's watching, right?
Gus Applequist: Mm-hmm.
Rolf Potts: Uh, and I, I think just being unapologetic about being from here and being as part of a global conversation because. I, I joke that I used to be on the Wikipedia page for Global Nomads for, uh, digital nomads. Uh, and I joke that I was taken off 'cause they realized I lived in Kansas and not in Cancun or, you know, some more exotic place.
Okay, that's funny. Um, but we can be completely global and completely Kansas at the same time that we no longer live in that Kansas landscape that Ken depicted in sod and stubble that we can digitally, Kiki can audition literally for a TV show that's on HBO from, from our spare room in Kansas. And it looks the same as an audition from anyone who's auditioning anywhere else in the world.
Authentic Not Apologetic
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Rolf Potts: And so we, as Kansans, we give ourselves permission to join the global [00:39:00] conversation and not be apologetic for living here. and realize that some people might be a little bit jealous, you know, uh. I didn't, I wasn't as beholden to New York as Kiki was, but oftentimes I would go to New York where they sort of expect people from the provinces to apologize.
And instead of saying, oh yeah, I'm from Kansas, but oh, don't worry, I'm a New Yorker now. I would say, oh no, I have land in Kansas. I go back to Kansas. I love Kansas. And finally people would just said, Ralph, you're so authentic. That was the word. Here's the a word. But instead of apologizing like so many other people would have, because I didn't apologize, they said, alright, well maybe there's more to Kansas than, than I realized there were.
So that's, that's my encouragement to Kansas is, is don't apologize, be authentic. Represent the place that this is in all of its glorious complexity and nuance and diversity. For
Sydney Collins: some reason, I just, when you said, thanks for being authentic, it just makes me think of like the Southern, oh, bless her heart.
Rolf Potts: Listen, [00:40:00] there was sort of an element of sort of patting you on the head because Yeah, they, you know, they, they expect you to sort of apologize for whatever stereotype they have embodied, you know, like, yeah, I'm sorry that you think our politics is regressive or you think that our landscape is boring, but no, it's like, oh yeah, I live in Kansas and I look forward to going back.
And so then, so then it's like, oh, you're authentic. I, I will say that, you know, I teach a class in Paris every summer and I live in Kansas and I invite all my friends to visit me in both places. Way more people go to Paris.
Sydney Collins: Oh yeah,
Rolf Potts: sure. Even though it's a lot farther. People have literally said to me, Paris just seems so much closer than Kansas.
Uh, and so, um, that's my little contribution is, is not apologizing and, um, inviting people to, to visit and see this authentic side of me here in Kansas.
Gus Applequist: I love it.
Wrap Up And Links
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Gus Applequist: And thank you for taking time. Yeah. Thank you to, to come and be on the podcast today. Um, yeah, I guess, I guess that's it. Thank you very much.
Rolf Potts: Thank you for having the [00:41:00] podcast. I don't, I don't ever get to talk about Kansas on podcast, so this has, this has been fun.
Sydney Collins: actually, before we go, where can we find all your work?
Rolf Potts: Go to rolfpotts.com. This website has existed for almost 30 years, 28 years old. My website is, uh, it predates all my social media handles, which are linked from rolfpotts.com.
So Instagram, um, YouTube, you can find by way of rolfpotts.com, which is older than probably some of the guests on this podcast
Sydney Collins: maybe.
[00:42:00]
Post Show Reflections
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Sydney Collins: Thanks for joining us for that episode with Rolf.
Gus Applequist: Yeah, it was a fun, uh, conversation with Rolf. I think, he has thought more deeply about kind of the sense of place in storytelling than probably anybody else. And, and is really cool to hear about his, um, his documentary that he put out, uh, a few weeks ago.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. He posted on Facebook, um, a while back about a desk that he got from the DAV and how it's been his writing desk for however many years, I don't remember, but it's like 15 plus years. And he finally was able to remodel and gave that desk back to the DAV, so somebody else could start writing their own stories.
And I just love that because it's such a Kansas thing.
Gus Applequist: so Rolf and Kiki, I'm not sure which one it is. I think it's Rolf's. Yeah, it's Rolf's dad. Rolf's dad is is George Potts. I think.
Sydney Collins: That sounds familiar.
Gus Applequist: And yeah, because we, we talked with him about doing some work for them a while [00:43:00] back.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: And he does this thing called Energy Green grandpa.
Sydney Collins: Oh yeah.
Gus Applequist: And, um, it's great. He's, I don't know how old he is, but he's he's an older fellow.
Yeah.
Gus Applequist: And, uh, he's very passionate about, uh, encouraging kids mm-hmm. And, and families to, to be greener in their lifestyle. So I, I just think they're such an interesting family and everything they do is, is filled with passion, so,
Sydney Collins: very much
Gus Applequist: so.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Two Truths And A Lie
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Sydney Collins: Well, along that note, um, I have another segment for you. Two Truths and a Lie. I, I really like
Gus Applequist: this segment. This is one of my favorites.
Sydney Collins: So they get e they, they start easy and they get a little hard. At least I think they do. Mm-hmm. Maybe it's just me. So first one I'm gonna give you the city and then you have to tell me, you know, okay.
Which ones are the truth and which one is the lie for each city.
Scott City Trivia
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Sydney Collins: So first one, Scott City. So home to a state park built around an [00:44:00] ancient inland sea fossil site. It also, uh, sits near one of the largest natural lakes in Western Kansas and Austin are graphic designers from there. So which one is the lie and which one are the truths?
Gus Applequist: Okay. I
Sydney Collins: should have had my little picture.
Gus Applequist: Pretty sure Austin is actually from there. So not that one sits near one of the largest lakes. That feels wrong to me. Okay. I'm, I'm gonna go with two. Is the lie, it sits near one of the largest natural lakes in Kansas,
Sydney Collins: correct? It does not. So with the first one, so it mentions, um, the fa, the, uh.
What did I say?
Gus Applequist: Fossil bed?
Sydney Collins: Yeah, the fossil bed. So it's actually at Lake Scott State Park. So the park is one of the most historic locations in Kansas. More than 26. 26. Archeo. Arche. My camp talk today, archeologists [00:45:00] Archeological.
Gus Applequist: Archeological.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. That one. Mm-hmm. Um, sites have been documented in and adjacent to the park.
The remains of the northern, most nor known. My gosh, I cannot talk to this. This is great.
Gus Applequist: Nor nor
Sydney Collins: northern, most known Native American Pueblo. Oh, wow. Um, I'm not even gonna try to pronounce it. Mm-hmm. But, um, a national historically landmark, um. Are located in the, in the park and also the steel home, which is the dwelling of the original settlers on the area, um, has been preserved as much, uh, like it's a hundred, a hundred year over a hundred years old.
Um, and it's about one mile south of the park is Battle Canyon, which is the location of the last Native American battle in Kansas. A lot is happening around the Scott City area. Cities. Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Wow, wow.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. So that's Scott City.
Gus Applequist: Okay.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Gus Applequist: Nice.
Chanute And Adventurers
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Sydney Collins: Next one, Chanute. [00:46:00] So Chanute. So two truths and a lie. Chanute was named after Octave Chanute, a civil engineer and aviation pioneer, who influenced early flight research.
Chanute, is the hometown to a mu or the home of a museum that celebrates freeness explorers and filmmakers, or Chanute once served as a major shipping port along the Arkansas River, which served as a vital point for commerce in military supplies. So, which one is the lie?
Gus Applequist: I'm pretty confident that Chanute predates 1900, which means it predates aviation, which means it can't be number one.
Am I wrong?
Sydney Collins: You are wrong.
Gus Applequist: No, it's the last one.
Sydney Collins: It's the last shipping, the last one.
Gus Applequist: Wow. So when was Chanute founded?
Sydney Collins: Chanute was founded, oh, I don't know when Chanute was founded. I don't have that in my notes here. We'll have to look that one up.
Gus Applequist: An Octave. What an epic name.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. But that does, that does ring truths or is a museum in Nu.
That mentions, um, octave nu
Gus Applequist: [00:47:00] Wow.
Sydney Collins: Um,
Gus Applequist: he sounds like a Roman soldier or something.
Sydney Collins: Yes. My thing that I thought was the most interesting was the home to the museum that celebrates the famous explorers and OA filmmakers.
Gus Applequist: Oa and I can't, Abe maybe? No, that's
Sydney Collins: Martin and OA Johnson. Martin
Gus Applequist: oa. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: I am. I did not know this.
I thought like, I found like a gem. I'm surprised. I'm so, no,
Gus Applequist: I think you, we were thinking about using them for another segment, so, oh,
Sydney Collins: were we,
Gus Applequist: we haven't made the segment, but we talked about it.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Gus Applequist: You're right. They're fascinating.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. So in the first half, uh, it's so weird how people, um, on the interwebs, uh.
Wrote this, but in the first half of the last century
Gus Applequist: mm-hmm.
Sydney Collins: An American couple from Kansas named Martin and Ossa Johnson captured the public's imagination through their films and books of adventure in exotic faraway lances. Um, they were pioneering documentary filmmakers, photographers, oh, photographer photographers, writers and [00:48:00] explorers.
From 1917 to 1936, the Johnsons traveled across Africa, b Borno, BNO, Borneo. Sure. That one. Um, in the South Seas documenting the native peoples and animals they encountered along with their own experiences through popular movies such as Simba, that came out in 1928. And Baa Buna, B-A-B-O-O-N-A,
Gus Applequist: can't help you there.
Sydney Collins: Um, that came out in 1935 and bestselling books still in print, including I Married Adventure that came out in 1940. Martin and Noosa popularized camera safaris and a passion for African wildlife conservation for generations of Americans. Their legacy is a, a record of the cultures and animals in remote areas of the world, which have undergone profound changes.
Gus Applequist: About 15, maybe even 20 years ago, my parents and I went to that museum.
Sydney Collins: Oh, really?
Gus Applequist: And it is, and you
Sydney Collins: can go to the next
Gus Applequist: slide. It'll
Sydney Collins: show it.
Gus Applequist: It's an awesome museum. [00:49:00] Uh, definitely worth a visit and truly remarkable people. Um, and I, I have a thing for couples that make documentaries together. Uh, there's a, there's another great documentary about a couple like that, about V Volcanologists.
Sydney Collins: Oh
Gus Applequist: yeah. Uh, I don't remember the name of it, but
Sydney Collins: it, uh, it's a National Geographic.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. It's so good. So good. So, yeah,
Sydney Collins: it's
Gus Applequist: really good. It's tragic. That one's tragic. That
Sydney Collins: one came
Gus Applequist: out. Martin osi. This story is way more positive,
Sydney Collins: so. Mm-hmm.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: So yeah, I just thought there's like so much happening in Hannu.
Yes. And here's what's funny, all, all these towns, I literally just went on Google and got to the map and I'm like. If you haven't realized by now, I'm picking one from like each corner of the state and I'm like, what's a tiny town that I probably have never heard of? I actually have heard of Chanute, so I was like, well, let's see what's in Chanute.
Yeah. And then we went from there. So, um, yeah. Okay. Next one.
Sabetha Name Mystery
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Sydney Collins: Ooh, sbe. All right. SBE is known for its strong manufacturing presence, including companies that produce equipment used [00:50:00] nationwide. Uh, SBE was founded, um, as a river trading post along the Missouri River and was a resting place for people traveling east, west.
I should have put West. It was actually west. I got my things wrong. Well, I guess you could go east. Uh, they traveled. Um, and then the naming of SBE will always bring a controversy and the town claims both stories.
Gus Applequist: Hmm. Okay. I'm pretty sure you know that number one is true. I know we've, yep. I know that's a thing.
Uh, three sounds. I'm, I'm guessing two is the, the Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Two
Gus Applequist: is the, yeah,
Sydney Collins: because I can't write properly. Um, yeah. So number two is incorrect. So the naming controversy.
Gus Applequist: Mm-hmm. Hear it.
Sydney Collins: So this one's pretty long, so just bear with me 'cause it is a pretty good story. And so this comes from actually, um, s Bea's, uh, city website.[00:51:00]
So then, uh, the naming of s Beha will always bring on a controversy. Uh, there are several versions of how s Beha got its name, each backed by its, um, own advocates. Um, one story is, um, let's see. I'm trying to summarize this, but I don't think I can. Mr. William b Slo Slauson, S-L-O-S-S-O-N, Slauson. One of the original settlers of Albany wrote to George W.
Martin, um, second Secretary of the Kansas Historical Society, society as follows, general Jim Lane had dug a well in the edge of Brown County, close to the why Cannot, why can we not give names, normal names? I'm gonna struggle through this whole thing. Nemaha, N-E-M-A-H-A, Nemaha, Nemaha County, county Line, um, had stuck a stake and marked it Saha, presumably because he [00:52:00] camped there over Sunday.
Uh, that is how Saha got it. Its name, SA Sabbath. Oh. And got, um, on the early maps as s Beha. So supposedly someone put a stick in the ground, called it a day.
Gus Applequist: If it had been Tuesday, it would've been Tuesday.
Sydney Collins: Tuesday. Etha
Gus Applequist: Tuesday,
Sydney Collins: Tuesday. Oh, okay. Second version. So perhaps the best story, um, is this one. This one is lengthy early in the fifties, and this is 1850s.
Okay. Okay. Early in the 1850s, a tall, slim, wrinkled man of middle age, a bachelor, came to the vicinity of Sabetha on his way to California. The Bachelor had a wonderful dream of a gold mine in California and was trying to make the trip to find it alone. Hence, he was a bachelor. He had an elaborate map showing the [00:53:00] location of the gold and the typography of the country surrounding when he had traveled with his OX team from St.
Joseph to near the present sight of Sabha the traveler met with Ms. Fortune, one of his ox, and died this fateful. Sorry, that's a little dramatic. This faithful incident led to the naming of sbe. The man was a Greek scholar and well versed in mythical lore. Also a student of the Bible. He is this bachelor, had many talents.
I don't know why he was a bachelor, not married yet.
Gus Applequist: Despite being wrinkled.
Sydney Collins: Despite being wrinkled,
his oxen were named Hercules, and again, Greek people. Pella Peles, P-E-L-L-E-A-S.
Gus Applequist: Sorry, I can't help you there. I don't know.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. Anyway, the P one passed away on Sunday [00:54:00] and the Bachelor was obliged to remain here. He pitched a tent and dug a well. The, well he named Sabo the Greek word for Sabbath in honor of the day.
The traveler had two gowns of whiskey, which he pedaled to the few settlers and passerby. When the whiskey was gone, he went back to St. Joseph and procured more, becoming a full fledged bartender.
Gus Applequist: That is a, and it goes on.
Sydney Collins: It goes on. There's more people came in to drink at the sabetha. Well, a well as well as the Traveler's bar.
The well water was exceptionally fine and the Saha well became known from St. Joe to California as it was a direct route of, uh, direct route for travelers to the golden State. The traveler, having partially realized his dreams of wealth through his gold liquor [00:55:00] trade returned to his home in the East.
Gus Applequist: That was so detailed. They
Sydney Collins: like.
Gus Applequist: I, I like that the controversial naming of the town
Sydney Collins: is like,
Gus Applequist: someone put it can agree that it has to do with the day of Sunday.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. So,
Gus Applequist: well, very interesting.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. There you go.
Gus Applequist: We, we'd have to have a historian help us, uh, decipher those stories.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. There's more information on the bea, um, city page.
Um, they have multiple different histories and fun stuff. So highly recommend you, um, check that out. Okay. Yeah. Next.
Penokee Stone Man
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Sydney Collins: All right. Penokee, Penokee Penokee.
Gus Applequist: I do not know anything
Sydney Collins: about this. I've never heard this one before. OPEE. Yeah. This one I like dug around in Northwestern Kansas for a while.
Gus Applequist: Mm-hmm.
Sydney Collins: So it's known for its strong manuf.
Oh, I forgot to copy and paste. Sorry. Hold on. That's not on the, okay. Yeah, I can, I can read it from my [00:56:00] phone. I just forgot to copy and paste it. No worries. Sorry. My bad. Okay. Penokee. So, um, there is a giant man made of stone that is the largest known human effigy in Kansas. It's known, um, oh. The town was once named reefer, but had been renamed after the Penokee Mountains near Lake Superior.
Um, pinoc is the county seat of Graham County. So, which is the lie and which is the truth?
Gus Applequist: You say? Grand County
Sydney Collins: Graham.
Gus Applequist: Oh, grand. Like Graham. Yeah. I was like, I was gonna say that I thought the town was the lie because I've never heard of a Grand Grand County. Um, yeah, this is a totally new place to me. Um,
uh, okay, I'm gonna,
Sydney Collins: okay, I'll cut this, please. I'm gonna read 'em again.
Gus Applequist: Can read again, sorry.
Sydney Collins: So number, so number one, there's a giant man made of stone that is the largest known human effigy in Kansas.
Gus Applequist: [00:57:00] Mm-hmm.
Sydney Collins: Two, the town was once named Redford. But had been renamed after, after the Penokee Mountains near Lake Superior, or three Penokee is the county seat of Graham County.
Gus Applequist: I'm gonna say number three is the lie.
Sydney Collins: You're correct. 'cause Hill City is the county seat for Graham County. So Penokee has a very interesting, uh, kind of stuff to it.
Gus Applequist: Oh, so, so this is more like the like, like a, a pre-colonial
Sydney Collins: Yes.
Gus Applequist: Effigy. Okay. Interesting. I had no idea there even was this in Kansas.
Sydney Collins: So, um, the first thing is it was named, referred, referred R-E-F-O-R-D.
Um, but it had to be renamed 'cause the male kept getting mixed up with Rexford.
Gus Applequist: That's where my wife's from, so That's hilarious.
Sydney Collins: Yes. So, uh, to prevent any confusion, they renamed the town. Um, it is also, [00:58:00] um, thought that a battle between a large number of Cheyenne Indians in the US Calvary took place between Pinoc, pinoc and Hoxie in 1857.
Um, Assad Fort was erected to house the wounded, uh, for the winter. Uh, but the exact location of this battle has not been determined. So, um, but really what we're here for is the Penokee stone Man. So this is a 60 by 30 limestone cobble outline in the shape of a man situated on a high ridge overlooking the South fork of the Solomon River in Graham County.
The stone man, uh, lays with,
Gus Applequist: yeah, I feel like a description is necessary here in that it's,
Sydney Collins: yeah,
Gus Applequist: this is not like a three dimensional thing. It's more of like an outline of a man,
Sydney Collins: like if you're looking top down
Gus Applequist: mm-hmm.
Sydney Collins: Um. From, it's kind of like when you think of a crop circle, you can't really see it when you're looking like it, you over top.
Gus Applequist: But like the lines in Chile I think is [00:59:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Sydney Collins: yeah. Or if, say, when you're trying to find the big dipper up in the sky. Yeah. That's kind of what it's like. There's different plot points to it. Mm-hmm. Um, so it's a 60 by 30 limestone limestone cobble outline in the shape of a man. Um, and let's see, where, where was he at?
Uh, situated on the, uh, high ridge overlooking the South fork of the Solomon River in Graham County. The stone man, uh, lays with outstretched arms and legs staring up at the heavens. Um, at present, and this is as of 2001, is the, the latest story I could find, or sorry, 2000, uh, 2011. It was the only known stone human effigy in Kansas, although many similar, uh, many similar to it, are found in the Northern Plains region.
Gus Applequist: Hmm.
Sydney Collins: So yeah, the first written account of the Stoneman was in 1879 by Professor SW Wilson, an [01:00:00] explorer sent by the Peabody Museum in Connecticut.
Gus Applequist: Wow.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. I had no idea. There's, there's one of these in Kansas, the, they have the picture we're looking at, if you're listening. Mm-hmm. Uh, they have a, a photograph and then they have like a plot next to the photograph of like, yeah.
The approxi it location stones, what it, and then like a, a, a visualization of what the intent probably was. Mm-hmm. And uh, yeah, it's not what you think of when you think of like a European vision of a human. Mm-hmm. So it's uh, definitely think it would be pre-colonial. Yeah. Very interesting.
Sydney Collins: I think this was from the Graham County Historical Museum.
Gus Applequist: Gotcha.
Sydney Collins: I believe.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. I'd be curious if this is still visible.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: I'm
Sydney Collins: super curious too.
Gus Applequist: Wow.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. Larry Spini for you. Well,
Gus Applequist: thank you.
Sydney Collins: I think that's the last one I got.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: So
Gus Applequist: that was fun.
Sydney Collins: There's your two truths and a lie.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Final Goodbye
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Gus Applequist: Uh, well this brings us to the end of another episode of Ask A Kansan.
Sydney Collins: Uh, thank you for joining us.
Make [01:01:00] sure to like and subscribe and leave a review from wherever you are listening from.
Gus Applequist: Thanks for tuning in and have a good one.
Sydney Collins: Bye.