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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
Look, I'm sure a lot of you have wondered,
if my kid is good enough to play at an academy like Barcelona
or any other famous Spanish club, what would
it actually feel like?
What would we need to do?
What would the road look like?
Well, except for the first question, we're going to try to answer
the other ones today.
And because I got to admit, the level of this conversation,
we went for reinforcements.
And to my surprise, we replaced Matt and not me.
So today is Patrick Ouckama is in, and
some of you, I hope all of you remember Pat from our earlier episodes
Pat, a true Soccer Mind, massive soccer experience.
And best of all, not a dad.
So he helps balance this conversation.
I know.
By the way, Matt is not exactly relaxing.
He's on a full-time soccer
full around Europe tour with his son.
So he's learned nothing from this podcast.
Today's guest is Neil Congost, a coach from
Barcelona, who has worked at the highest level of environments
in Catalonia.
He built his own development model around what he believes many
young players are missing in a modern game
He also helped place a number of young talents in some of
the top levels of professional Spanish football.
Yeah, really good conversations with with Neil about soccer
in Spain, about development, um, about the
culture, what he and EOS football is building
is is an experience that that sounds very
unique, where players can get a taste of what it's
like to compete and try to succeed at some of
the highest levels in football.
Nil, Bienvenido to chasing the game.
Liron: So before we dive deep and go
into big ideas, let's give the listeners
or the four or five viewers that are
there, the short version of your path.
What is the environment you coached
in, the families and players you
worked with, and, uh, what led
you to build the EOS in Barcelona?
Nil: Well, first of all, thank
you for inviting me here.
It's a, it's a real pleasure.
So I've been coaching,
it's been over 10 years.
first I was coaching in different
levels, in, in Barcelona,
different levels, different ages.
Throughout this process, uh, I
was seeing that there were some
things missing, which I'm sure
that we're gonna be talking about.
I created, uh, a new program
for players so that they could
work onto these specifics.
Within the environment here in
Barcelona, there's plenty of things
that we do, but some of them can
be done better or differently.
So we tried creating something that
could be complimentary so the player
can reach his highest performance.
So coaching clubs like, like
Sabadell, like Mataró, which
clubs are semiprofessional.
I was also coaching in the highest
divisions here in Catalonia,
different ages and so on.
I saw that, uh, my place could be
somewhere else, uh, besides the clubs.
So that's where we started
the, the, the academy
Pat: Neil, can you, uh, just right off
the bat, 'cause you're talking about
obviously what the clubs do provide,
where you saw some things missing
that, you know, services you provide.
Can you speak more to that?
Nil: Yeah, sure.
So, what we are doing is to provide a
full service to the player that can help
them reach their highest performance
on the field and outside the field.
So we do individual training, we
do group training, we do, trainings
based on, on fundamental strengths,
based on, on competition aspects
that the players need to dominate.
in such environments that we have here.
We work with, sports psychology.
We work with conditional
strengths and training.
do some nutrition also.
are doing lots of game analysis, which is
key for us because that sets everything.
We combine everything.
So we create action plans for the
players assessment of the player.
to have them reach their, their
highest performance, which at the
end, that's what this is about.
And to help them get closer
to their dreams and to guide
them, within the, journey.
Pat: And where have you
seen your players progress?
Nil: Well, I mean, we've been so
lucky to coach players that now they
are reaching the highest levels.
FC Barcelona, for example, players like,
uh, Toni, like GI Fernández that they're
now just in between the first team,
of FC Barcelona and the second, team.
we've had players who, who have
been chosen for the Spanish national
team in the, in the younger ages.
plenty of them they're doing already with
the, with the Catalan squad, which Catalan
squad, along with maybe Madrid and maybe
the south one are the ones that always
compete for the, for the highest, ranks.
So we've been very lucky to have
these kind of players and, and that's
been key for us to also develop.
Liron: That's, that's amazing.
I wanna talk as, as a, as a parent here
in the United States, I mean the, the
idea of Barcelona or Catalonia, first of
all, they're mixed a lot, but is there
such a thing as Catalonian football
Nil: the level in Catalonia is very high.
Maybe we don't have as many
professional clubs as they do in Madrid.
However, the, these local clubs,
they feed, Barca like every year.
we have Giona, we have Espanol,
those clubs, they can compete
with any, club in the world in
terms of a development process.
there are other, many other clubs,
like Sabadell itself and so on, that
their level is very high and they
compete one-to-one against Barca.
Liron: But, but what
is Catalonian football?
Nil: Well, at the end, everything
goes to Barcelona, right?
Because it's Barcelona at the
end, it's, it's the cathedral.
It's, everyone knows, the best
players in the history have
been part of, of FC Barcelona.
So everything at the end
relates to Barcelona.
But at the end, Barcelona, maybe it's
the, like the top of the pyramid you say.
But in order to have this
top, to have this ladder, you
need many other steps before.
So I think that these local clubs, they
have to get credit for the work that they
do onto creating the place that eventually
they're gonna make it, to FC Barcelona,
Liron: the idea of Barca
or, or Catalonia, is there a
definition for that ideal player?
Is it possession, is it technical quality?
the football intelligence?
Nil: So at the end, I don't think
there's a definition, it's a consequence
of the level that we have because at
the end I think that football or any
sport, if you bring it towards the
highest level, it's adaptability and
it's, uh, like, uh, surviving, right?
So the fact that the level here
is so high, the fact that the
rhythm is so high that makes the
player have certain resources.
So that he can cope, with the environment.
So then it creates this, sense because
that's what, worldwide, it's known, right?
That here football is
played with less touches.
That here football is played with
your brain, not that much with
your feet, which at the end it's a
combination of everything, of course.
But, yes, it, it's true because at
the end, people who really understand
about the game, they say that, football
is about time and space, right?
So the, the higher the rhythm
it is, the less time and space
the players are gonna have.
So the faster they'll have to play.
it's at the end, the consequence
of us having a tougher
environment for the players.
Pat: Neil, you just spoke about how,
the work that the other clubs in the
region do, work that they do, you know,
and we obviously developing players that
end up on, on a club like Barcelona.
what is your relationship with, with
those clubs when you're working with
these players on an individual basis?
Nil: Sure.
So first there's a friendship because
at the end we've been, you know,
we know each other from the past.
So the relation is very good.
We wanna stay neutral because then
we can feed the players, we can help
the, the players in the way they
need because we're for the players.
We're not for the clubs.
So we try to have this networking in
which we collaborate, with any club
in, in Catalonia there's friendships,
there's of course like mutual, help
because at the end, anything that we
do, it goes towards the same direction.
So I would say that
relation is, is very good
Liron: you worked with, uh,
with American kids, right?
and we're gonna get into these camps in
a little bit, but when you see these,
these American kids, or you met some of
the families, what do you think draws
them into this idea of, Barcelona that
you see that the parents react to?
Nil: Well, I think that Barcelona
has been so successful not only for
the titles that they were able to
win over the last decades, but mainly
for the way they won them, right?
So I think anyone who likes football,
wants to be involved with this.
there's this love for the game.
There's many, many ways to win, right?
I think that Barcelona was able to create
a way that went beyond the results.
And right now, the Barcelona itself,
it's not only enough to win, you
need to win in a certain way.
And that's what I think that when we
talk about Barcelona being more than
a club, there's values involved, but
it's, it's this, it's that you have to
be loyal to the way you wanna get that.
And probably also to the, to the
national team, in Spain also.
Pat: Yeah, you've, yeah.
Neil, you've, you've worked with,
obviously with, um, with US players.
what do you think is the, is the
difference for, if, if you drop
an American player into that
environment like that, what do you
think is the, is the shock for them
Nil: football here in Catalonia, Spain.
culture is very big, right?
any player here plays football.
there are other sports, but
mainly any kid plays, football.
And that's been happening for,
for decades, decades and decades.
So the more people you have
doing something, the, the, the
higher levels you get, right?
Because also, more people doing that,
that means that the system needs to grow
because you need to provide a service.
So then the institutions, the
clubs, the, the, governments,
we have like plenty of fields.
When people come here, they, they're
amazed how many fields we have.
Every field it's full.
club has plenty of teams.
you see football, well, I was gonna
say we see football in the street.
Not that much.
I'm pretty sad about this 'cause, you
know, we are losing the street football,
which I'm very sad because, I think my
generations have been like the last that
we were actually playing in the streets.
it's true that on the weekends,
almost every family they go to a field
'cause they are playing or they're
seeing, and because we talk about
the federated level, but then there's
plenty of other football, more social
and, and it's plenty of football.
So only by that, that increases the
level the biggest difference that
which is that we have relegation.
here the fact that we have relegation,
it makes that the clubs, they really
must work to keep those divisions.
Because if they don't have divisions,
they don't have good players.
If they don't have good players, then
they cannot, you know, like create
players for the first team or sell
them or whatever, their model is.
they really have to work, and that
brings the pressure to the coordinator.
It brings pressure to the coach,
it brings pressure to the player.
So then the environment,
everyone has to perform.
We can discuss if this is the best
for, let's say a seven, eight years
old, which is happening maybe.
We can talk about when this environment
should start, but the reality is
that this environment is here.
You cannot compete against that.
You might like it more or less,
but we have this, environment.
So that makes that if the player doesn't
perform, then another player will come
and it's very based on performance.
that really makes that the
level keeps increasing, right?
Then we have, uh, this culture that
many players after playing they coach.
So also we have more coaches.
So more coaches means
usually better coaches.
Liron: So it's, it's really interesting
because I'm thinking about a lot of
the, and, and I know, uh, Patrick, you
know that too, a lot of the American
kids who go with teams to play in Europe
for these tournaments or parents who
have this idea of what European soccer
is and now specifically in Spain.
But coach Neil, do you think that
it's a more of a romantic idea of
what European soccer or Spanish
soccer is for the American parent?
Nil: at the end, football
is very emotional, right?
So the dreams are part of, of
the emotions and, and, and what
you're seeking and, and so on.
I think that talent is talent,
and I think that you need to
work and shape this talent.
Do I think that the environment we
have here in Spain, based on what
I explained before, helps the, the
talent grow, of course, because
it, it challenges the talent.
If the talent is not challenged, then you
don't grow the talent because it's enough.
Whatever thing you do,
it's gonna be enough.
when you come to a, to a, environment
that it's more challenging because you
have less time space, they're pushing
you, you have less time to think, you
have to be more precise, more accurate,
and so on, then yes, you, you need, you
need to start doing different things.
So usually what we see, 'cause we've had,
we've been also very lucky to have very
strong talents from, from North America
that are so good they actually bring
something different to the game here.
they had to face these challenges, right?
families, what they were telling
me is that, that we came here
'cause he was not being pushed
in a way that he's being here.
Does it mean that anyone who is gonna
come here, to Barcelona is gonna become
professional or, you know, of course not.
the percentage of players
actually make it in Barcelona.
It's probably the worst, place
possible because you also have
more players trying it, right?
And the level is higher.
So Barcelona, for me, it's the
best space to develop yet it's one
of the hardest to actually make
it, football is about experience.
The more specific that your.
repetitions are during the trainings
or your daily basis, then the
easier it's gonna be to transfer
and relate to the game, right?
So if you are at the end gonna play
in a environment that you're not gonna
have time and space to think and to
execute, then how do you expect to
perform at that level if you have
not practiced that level before?
So that's why I think that it's a system
that sets the level here, that the player
here can develop, better than probably
others who don't have the system.
Pat: Neil, how do the coaches
in Spain, for example, help the
players navigate that system?
It's ultra competitive at every level.
Everyone's trying to make it to
the top for a limited number of
spaces, so that's, that's a big job,
obviously, to help them maybe even more
psychologically manage those challenges.
Nil: I had one, one person who
helped me a lot, when I was
starting to coach Lucas González.
He's now coaching the, uh,
first level in, in Columbia.
he taught me that, um,
the coach, um, mission is
to guide the player, right?
guiding the player is not telling
the player what to do, right?
Guiding the player is showing a
different options that he has, and
then creating like good scenarios.
where he's gonna be able to
experience the reality of football.
We're talking about, uh, the
mental aspect, the technical
one, the tactical one.
for me, one of the main things that
the coach needs is to, build, specific
situations that the player is gonna
have, like enough inputs so that the
player can learn from the mistakes and
he can learn from which kind of actions
help them have better success, right?
any drill needs to have a challenge.
I always tell the players
they must win every drill.
You know, they must have to
think how to win the game.
And the game can be a rundown.
It can be a, a passing drill, it can be
a, a position game, it can be anything.
But if you are setting these challenges,
then you're making the player think,
then you're making him gain habits that
then he's gonna be able to incorporate
on his assets, on his, uh, playing style.
And then you're creating the player.
If you are only like telling him no, like
now you've gotta pass, now you gotta run,
you gotta pass to him, you gotta do that.
maybe you're helping in the short
term, but at the end you're not
really, you know, making an impact
on the player in the longer term.
And then of course, mentally.
I think that the player goes through a
lot of pressure, for how things are, done.
So I think it's very good.
Also release sometimes the
pressure, from the player.
It's a balance.
You, you need to pressure him because he
needs to, you know, he needs to be pushed.
Yet at the same time, I think that he
needs to have this time to, to create, you
know, one thing that happens and, and, and
sorry if I'm ex I'm extending too much.
Liron: I want to hear, uh, this is,
it's better than hearing me talk.
Go ahead.
Nil: so, so one of the things, um, one
of the main things that made me go away
from the clubs and try to make my own
thing to help the players is that many
coaches, they want creative players.
They want player makers.
They want players who can take
the ball, who can drill, who can,
who doesn't want that, right?
Who doesn't want a player who can
go past two, three players and
score a goal, but then however.
Since we have lots of pressure and
you gotta win and blah, blah, then
whenever one player, of course I'm
talking about highest division, right?
Whenever one player takes some risk
and he doesn't do well, and let's say
he loses the ball and that creates
a counter attack, which means risks,
which means that we can, uh, concede
goal, then what is the coach or, or
most of the coach gonna do, they're
gonna yell at the, at the player, right?
So that's crazy because you want players
in a certain way, which you are then
not helping them sometimes be like that.
So then sometimes you are kind
of like, even like spoiling
the kid, you know what I mean?
So that's why we thought that we needed
to create these safe environments where
the players could actually like try,
um, like experience and you know, like
try to do things that maybe they are
not so confident to do with the clubs.
So then they are prepared to do with
the clubs and with this, I don't mean
that the clubs are bad for the player.
Again, like you cannot
separate both things.
'cause you need the players to be pushed
because that's what's what creates
the, the environment for them to grow.
Right.
But the bad part of it and, and the, the,
the, the like, the space that I think
that we, we gotta ahead them is onto
building this, um, like self-awareness,
you know, and self, uh, development
that they can actually grow from.
Pat: it's just such an
interesting point, Neil.
I've worked at a couple professional
academies here and when you're out
scouting you, you see a player and you see
how confident they are and then sometimes
you bring them into the environment
and they, they've lost a little bit of
that 'cause they don't wanna mess up.
So it's, it's an interesting idea for
them to have access to a space where
they can, where they can try things.
Nil: Yeah.
No, no, absolutely.
And, and it kills me because, and
we try telling the players like.
If they sign you, that's for something.
Don't turn, don't try to be mediocre.
Right.
Um, but, but, but that like, uh,
the level of like, uh, personality
and, and character and the identity
that you're gonna have in order
to, to say like, Hey, I don't care.
You know, I'm just gonna do,
and if I fail, I'm just gonna
get it back and keep trying.
Not all the players are made like this.
And that's one of the main and
biggest differences I think
from the players that make it.
And the ones that, that they don't.
Liron: Oh, I mean, it's, it's amazing
to, to hear you speak and, and
again, to what Pat was also asking is
that I, I'm taking a quote that you
said that talent is not challenged.
And we also had a, we had a coach, a Dutch
coach here a few weeks ago, and he talked
about this concept for young kids called
self-regulation, where before training,
they challenge the kids to work on things
that they think they need to work on.
So they take ownership of, of the things
that they need to be challenged on.
When I think of the United States, we
both agree that in potential, there's
infinite amount of talent here, right?
There's so many, so many kids.
there's a giant missing link.
So it, you don't have to solve it now,
but is it coaching, is it philosophy?
Is it id, uh, is it the culture?
Is it access?
when I hear you speak just blows my mind.
Nil: I think that at the end
it's many things altogether.
for me the main thing
is the system itself.
Like, you know, like altogether,
like the, the fact that we have
there are many players playing, so
you can choose many more players.
There's more competition because
what I sense what happens in Canada,
United States and so on, um, I know
that the families, they, they move
a lot to be in the best academy.
They try to like, uh, I've met
players, I families with the very
talented players that they have.
Like they themselves, they
create like some group of.
With the best players in this, uh,
region and this area and this state
and whatever, and they, you know,
they play together because they wanna
create this, this challenging, uh,
environments for the kids, which is great.
But maybe you can, maybe you can, like,
put all the best players together.
Yes.
But who are you gonna play against?
You know, because that's not enough
that I know that happens in Canada.
I know that at least some families,
they shared me this idea also because
not it's, it's not only, and, and for
example, I know that, I mean, there's
been like academies with the idea of,
okay, let's sign people from Barcelona
and let's put them in this country,
and that's develop them as they
would be developing in, in our state.
Right?
Um, but it's not true because you know,
you need the, you need the competition.
You cannot, you cannot put things apart.
Like, of course you're training and
that's good, but you train for a game.
And, and usually you have the game, right?
And then you do things well, you do things
not so well, and you wanna fix the ones
that you're not doing so well, right?
So if you don't have like this
evaluation, um, part, then you,
everything falls apart, right?
So I think that having more players
play each one thing, I think that's
changing in the United States,
which is, it's, it's very good.
I think that the moment more players
play, you'll need more coaches.
The moment you need more coaches, then
you need that, uh, the coaches will
have to be better because maybe if
there are not so many players to coach,
maybe any coach can go and say, Hey,
I'm a coach, I'm gonna start coaching.
But then here in Spain, it's
very tough to, to be like, to
coach in the highest division.
You, you gotta like coach many years
before and you're gonna, you're gonna
be doing that with very low salaries.
You only do that because you wanna
improve and, and because you love the
game or you love the sport, whatever.
Um, so I think that at the end, I think
it's like a, like a whole concept, like
a whole cultural thing that I think
that is changing the United States.
I think that it's changing, at
least as far as I, as I'm concerned.
I think it's changing.
And, and every year we're having more
and more players coming from, from
United States, Canada, and so on.
And, and the level is very high.
Today I was having one, one player, um,
but I'm yes, from, from a professional
club there in, in the United States.
And, and I was telling a that Liam,
I mean, your son is extremely good.
Like he's, he's very talented.
But yes, you gotta shape this talent.
Pat: what do you generally see are the
challenges for a kid from North America
entering an environment like that?
Nil: So, okay, so of course that those
are stereotypes and, you know, there
are stereotypes that I wanna go against.
it's that, uh, the, the player
from the United States, he
won't understand the game.
This is being said here.
It's, maybe I'm, that's a bad thing
to say here, but this is, this is
something that typically the coaches
will think, of course, there's the
language barrier, which it's difficult
to understand, like, because football
is communication and it, it's very
difficult to play at the highest level
if you're not understanding the language.
That's, that's, that's true.
It's, it's, it's difficult.
It's a challenge.
Um, but you know, like I see players
coming from the United States that
they have like a huge and a very
deep level of, of, of awareness and
understanding the game and so on.
I think that there's
lots of talent in this.
Um, of course the more you put a
player onto such environments, the
more you challenge him and the more
he'll have to, you know, like to cope
with, with the, with the playing style.
Uh, but yet I would say that
there's a big part of talent in
the, like, understanding the game.
That, that's, that's one side.
But yes, usually like how are the,
what are the main, uh, challenges
that the, that the players, uh, have?
So, for example, we see that the, most
of the players that we have, they have
tons of individual training behind.
So they are very good
on, on technical drills.
You know, they're very clean and good.
They do so many touches and they do,
they do them like so fast, and they
do like this drill and this other,
whereas our place, they don't do that.
They don't have like, so many triplings.
They don't do like sometimes
like so many touches.
Um,
Liron: Sorry?
Are you saying the American
kid has more touches?
Uh uh
Nil: like individually, if you give
him the ball and you say, okay, you
got gotta do this drill and, and
do like as many touches in, in, in
this amount of time, probably, well,
not probably, but sometimes we see
players that this, like, technically
they'll do it pro like sometimes
better than the players we have here.
However, when you place them in a game.
Then sometimes what we see is
that every time they have the
ball, they need to do the play.
You know, they need to do these 2, 3,
4 touches and then boom, do the pass.
But football, as we said
before, is time and space.
So maybe those 2, 3, 4 touches that
you did before making the actual play,
which was passing it, cut the play so
that the player you were gonna pass
to, now he has less time in space.
So you, you did not have the
player, you, you, you, you wasted.
Right?
It.
Right.
So that's what I mean that we see
plays with very like, hard work and
ethics and probably like better than
here, uh, with more work behind, with
more technical abilities and so on.
But they gotta need, they
need to know how to use it.
That's why I like using the word shape,
because you, you have it, but you gotta
shape it in a way that it helps the team.
Um, and there's a concept in, in
football, which is like, sometimes
you do things for yourself.
I dunno how to say it in English, but.
You do, uh, movement.
So you get the ball, but
then you do also movement.
So the teammate gets the ball
in Spanish, it's a benefactor.
Um, so this concept, I think
that it's not so well developed
yet in the United States.
I, I see that the players, they usually,
they try to do the best for themselves,
you know, and, and of course I don't wanna
like say something which is like very
general because I'm, because of course not
everybody's gonna be like this, but based
on the experience that we've had over
100 players from very good academies and,
and teams, we sometimes see that, that if
they play me one or two touches, maybe for
them they will feel that it's not enough.
But maybe that's what the play was asking.
So that's the best decision possible.
Liron: Patrick May, maybe it comes
to the, uh, the American kid is very
good versus cones, while the Spanish
kid is very good versus other players.
Pat: I think there's, I think there's
something to be said for that.
I mean, we see.
I, I've seen a lot of players, you
know, at professional academies and who
have personal trainers who are really,
really technical and sometimes those
players are, are good in the context
of the match and sometimes the, the
decision making that Neil is speaking
about, um, it's just such a, it's just
a complex environment at that point
that you're not dealing with when you're
just executing a, a technical activity.
Nil: Any decision you make
is based on experience.
Right.
We were saying before that the more
specific your repetitions are, usually
the better outcomes you're gonna
have because you practice it more.
Actually, one, say that one thing
that they say from the Pep Guardiola,
the, um, when they say that he's
the best coach, when, when co when
players are asked, they always say
that he's so good because he tells you
what will happen before it happens.
that explains this idea
of the specificity.
Because if you put the, the, like the
environments, the context, the place
that, uh, every player's gonna face on
the weekend, if they were able to try and
see, okay, that works, that doesn't work,
that helps you, that doesn't help me.
Then the player, when when he does it,
like without thinking he's gonna boom,
like, do that and do that and do that.
So, um, it's the same with the,
with with what I was saying.
If the player is used, to repeat one.
Same thing plenty of times.
Um, then what is he gonna do in the game?
He's gonna do the same.
If you're making the player dribble,
like 20 times the cone, and do this
dribble, then he's gonna do that.
And maybe the player
is not asking him that.
But if he was not challenged, you
know, in, in a real situation scenario,
then how is he gonna know he's
just gonna do what he's been doing?
Liron: I say it as my son is
in, uh, private training right
now, running around cones.
So, uh, uh, I'm gonna cut this interview
short and I'm gonna go pick him up.
Nil: no, no.
I don't mean that.
I don't mean that at all.
'cause we do it also, we do it also.
It's just that, um, it
cannot be everything.
You know, you need to
know what you are doing.
You know, you need to know what
the training is helping you for.
Because like football here, um, along
with the Bara mythology, there's
many areas that make the player.
There's the like coordinative one,
which is like the, the control
of your body and the ball, which
is like any technical action.
There's the condition, there's the
mental, there's the cognitive, um,
there's the, your, your capacity to
relate with your teammates to do like
certain efforts in certain moments.
Like there's many things that are
all together connected and that
make the player, player so player
drill cones or running or whatever.
It's very good for one specific thing.
But if this specific thing,
which in this case drill cones,
it's the coordinative, um, area.
If this is not related with the mental,
with the, with the one, with the
conditional one, with the cognitive one,
which is decision making with relating
with the players, with everything.
And it's not use of that because
you're not gonna be facing cones.
You're gonna be in an environment
that you'll have pressure.
You have to decide, you have to have
certain strengths to execute your ideas.
Um, so you need to have like a whole.
Think all together.
And that's why I think that the
Barcelona's methodology is the
best because what we try is that
anything we do, it must have a
transfer, a transfer to the game.
Maybe we split it onto like small
parts, but the global, uh, thing, it
needs to be connected to the game.
That's very important.
if you are training without a
purpose, you're not training football,
you're training ball, but it's
not football, it's not the sport.
So you must have a purpose.
The player has to know
what he's working on.
What is, what is he working it for?
You know what, like not only how is he
gonna do it, but when is he gonna do it?
Why is he gonna do it,
and how is he gonna do it?
At what pace?
You know, like, this is very important.
You need to give this
context to the player.
If not, you're wasting
time, you're playing ball.
Pat: Neil, what is your, how do
you think about it in terms of,
from a developmental standpoint?
So you use Pep Guardiola as
an example, but Pep Guardiola.
Planning to win a match
on, on the weekend.
So there might be a specific thing
when we're talking about developing
players, we need them to answer
questions a lot of different ways.
So how do you structure training sessions
where, um, where the, the variables
are gonna be different because you're
not preparing for one match, you're
trying to develop this player over time.
Nil: that, that's very important.
you should not be actually preparing for
the game until the player is like 15, 16.
Which that's here in Spain
for the system and so on.
Some, sometimes it's not like this
because the games are very important also.
but at the end I think that
everything is, is, is connected.
I mean, you wanna win, but to
win, you gotta play well and to
play well, you need good in like
individual, um, performance, right?
So usually the way it is done is that
you divide the, the training sessions
during the week, your micro cycle.
There's different areas
for different outcomes.
So usually also related with
the intensity that you're
trying to bring to the players.
For example, there's no sense that Friday
before the game, you're gonna make the
players like play in a tight space, like,
like 10 v 10 with lots of intensity.
That's, you're, you're creating intensity
like on your, on your head, right?
Because you're being, you're
gonna be tired for the game.
So that's, that's no use.
Of course, if you come from the game,
you don't want Monday to be the most
demanding, uh, physical training, right?
Um, so this is the same for
the purpose of the drills.
So for example, if Monday we are tired
and we don't want spaces where many
players are interacting altogether
because we don't wanna be tired because
they're trying to like actively,
we're trying to recover, right?
Then we can use those spaces to work on
more like, like individual fundamentals.
So usually the first days of the
week are more focused on the player,
whereas the days in the, in the middle,
they are more focused on the team.
So you have more players, you can have
higher levels of intensity, um, and so on.
And then on Friday, usually the way it
is done here, you prepare for the game.
You have like more strategy.
Um, usually you also do like many
situations where the base have to be like,
like you work on the base and the speed
and so on, because that helps you also.
Um, of, of speed, um, than on the game.
So it's something that, it's a very good
question because it, it needs to, in
the micro, it needs to be, um, related.
Pat: Sure, sure.
I, I, I'm asking more about
the, the younger ages, right?
Where you're thinking about the long-term
development of the, of the player.
And so what does it, we use the
example of the players, um, you know,
dribbling through cones or the players
making decisions on the field based
on, based on what they see and what
the problem in front of them is.
How is that foundation structured
at the younger ages, independent
of the, of the match this weekend?
How, how, how are we build, how
are we building the function of the
player to be able to make decisions?
On the field.
Nil: Okay.
Okay.
So I think there's two things.
One is, um, how you, um, like
temporize, is that a word?
How you decide
Liron: we can make it.
I, I've said so many, so many words that
don't exist in this podcast that you,
that really, the standard is very low.
Don't worry.
Nil: I know.
So what I wanna say is that, uh, you need
to decide which content does every player
based on his, um, on his level of, brain
development, like cognitive development.
You know, like, like a kid who is
seven years old, he won't understand
any system because he's selfish.
He's, he only thinks on himself.
So why would you be working
on the past or control even.
If he doesn't wanna pass.
Right?
So then you gotta work on what?
On dribbling on driving and that's it.
And you gotta let him crash and so on.
After they have the, the ability
to understand that maybe, you
know, like sometimes relating with
a teammate, it's gonna bring like
better success than doing it alone.
Then you start working on the pass
and on control and you start showing
him like how to, uh, create a passing
line and how to solve like, like, uh,
like basic super easy situations like
two B one, like three B two, right?
And then as they get older, then
you can start like adding the
concept that sometimes their
movements won't be to get the ball.
Sometimes the movements would be for the
others to have more space and then you
have them on, on which movement they need
to do in every, uh, situation, right?
Which is like, whereas um, you need
to be doing like an emergency pass
or you need to be doing like a, like
a, like creating a line, like behind
the open and like stuff like this.
So depends on the on, on the brain
development that you need to, to relate.
And then that's in terms of like
methodology and then, uh, within one
same practice usually what you wanna do.
That's, um, another, um, like, uh, like
fundamental of the methodology that
we use is that there has to be a scale
from the first drill to the last one,
which by the way have to be related.
What we do at the end of the practice
is that after the practice, we always
do the feedback and the player must
know what he specifically work on.
If you ask the player, what did
we do today or what did you learn?
And he is not able to answer your
trainees is, well, I mean, I was gonna
say it's a failure, maybe not because
it's so that there are players that
they're able to explain you with words
and then they don't the field and
there are players that explain you.
That don't explain you with
words, but then they do it right.
Uh, but usually if the player
doesn't leave, you doesn't leave the
training with a very specific idea.
It's that you are not clear
enough that the drills did not
accomplish the, the purpose.
So usually what we do, what we,
what you wanna do is you wanna
start with drills that less complex.
So the player starts understanding,
you know, what he has to do.
That those are called like,
like conceptual drills, because
the concept, it repeats a lot.
So here you, you want lots repetition
on the, on the same, uh, action.
So he, you know, he experiences like,
okay, now with the left, now with the
right foot, now with the, this kind
of path, now with this other kind of
para, and then you put the same drill,
like the same concept, but now on a
challenge where more players are involved.
So it's more complex.
So now he, he's doing
the same, but he's doing.
A small game, right?
And then you do this small game,
then you convert it on a, on a, on a,
like more global or more like, like a
bigger center, like closer to the game.
So then you have less repetition, but
the quality of the repetitions are higher
because they're closer to what, uh, then
you're gonna experience in the game.
And then finally you have the
game, which is the, it's where you
evaluate, actually in the game.
You don't tell the player what to do
usually as a coach you see it and you
see, and you see if they are doing that,
they're doing that, you have your answer.
He understood he's not doing that, then
maybe you did not do it properly or
you did not do it enough or, I dunno.
That's the also like the, the goal
of the coach and the, and the,
you know, like the what also like
makes the coach be like this level
or that level to recognize what's
happening, uh, throughout the process.
Because never, like the training you
program you, you, you think it'll
never like happen 100% as you thought.
Right?
There will always be differences on that.
Pat: Yeah.
Liron: First of all, the fact that
Matt is not here right now, this is,
this would be his dream, interview
and to get both of you guys here.
I mean, this is, um, so wonderful but
overwhelming because it's, it's, none
of this connects to most of the football
experience that my kid has had through
the years, and it's not, um, he's
been through wonderful organizations.
But this kind of methodical,
systematic idea cohesiveness
is just really admirable.
And, and it, and it brings me to, to
the next part uh, Patrick and I have,
I've talked about this a little bit,
but all you've discussed so far has req
requires, and correct me if I'm wrong, it
requires time, requires systems, requires
culture, uh, understanding of the game.
What do you hope to achieve with these
short term camps in North America?
Nil: Um, yeah, so like first is to
give the opportunity for the players
to be seen by, by coaches here,
by some of the best coaches here.
Um, then, uh, of course what we want
is to also explain that there are
options to be part of this system
to at least experience the system,
you know, to eventually come maybe.
But then of course, like being
there, there's two parts.
One is like the experience, right?
Like being coached as, let's say, like
a Bara player would be coach, right?
Or, or, or a like professional player,
uh, would be coached in, in Spain.
That's one.
Um, and then of course, like.
That means that they will get
like the same information, they
will be challenged the same way.
Um, they will be pushed the same way.
So, but this of course, like since you
don't have like that much time and at the
end, like, or developing, I think it's
about like reading habits that then the
player can have and he can repeat, right?
And, and, and incorporate in
the, in the way that he plays.
That requires time, as you were saying.
So maybe in a camp, like one week camp or
two weeks camp, it's not gonna be enough.
You're gonna set like the
fundamentals, but then the player's
gonna have to work on that.
Right.
So what we try to accomplish on these
camps is to, um, the main thing that
we do is give an assessment to a
player, like give an actual evaluation
of how is the player doing, but then,
um, work onto like action plans that
they can, um, be done afterwards.
You know, like based on like, let's say
like the, the assessment that was given
to the, to the player, there's ways.
To evaluate the, the continuity of it.
So mainly what we do after it, um, it's
through the game analysis because of
course we cannot coach the player if we're
not with him, but we can be like watching
the games and you know, like trying to
set the challenges as if they were here.
Liron: Pat what do you think about those
kinds of, uh, of environments, the,
those kind of, one or two week camps?
Pat: it can, you know, to Neil's point,
provide the player with an experience
that's different and open their minds to
different ideas, into different habits.
For sure.
Now, for that, those
habits to stick, yeah.
That's a, that's a different story.
Sometimes some of the kids will,
will take it and run with it.
Some will not.
the club that they're currently playing
for and, and what are the, what are the
habits that that club is trying to instill
in their players comes into play also.
if one of our players is going
somewhere else for a short amount
of time, you know, being an academy
director, I get, skeptical for sure.
I have heard, you know, players
who went for a short amount of
time and came back with just a
different appreciation for the game.
Especially, when they go to, you know, a
place like Catalonia where, where, it is
world renowned and they start to see it
and open their eyes a little bit and they
come back with a different appreciation
for the game if they haven't previously
been exposed to something like that.
Liron: But Patrick as a director.
I know you've done a
coaching program in France.
We talked about it in our episode.
Don't you feel that Neil's professorial
knowledge would be, more beneficial
to the coaching, rank than it would
be to, uh, the players when it comes
to coming to the United States?
Pat: probably both.
I think the, I think the players
could certainly benefit from
hearing different voices for sure.
And especially coaches that are,
you know, have worked at a high
level in, in different countries.
that's beneficial to players
and certainly for coaches.
Coaches are thieves.
We're always looking for, for new
ideas and new new ways of even
just saying similar concepts.
You say it differently or it rings
true to you and you pick up on
different types of language or
clear ways to explain concepts.
Liron: I love that.
So, help me out a little bit here,
coach Neil, what, what would you
say are the, what is a, in your
eyes, a legitimate short program?
the reason I'm asking these questions
is because a lot of my colleagues have
spent huge amounts of money on these
kind of European travels and things.
And many times you have the experience,
which is just the fun of the kid.
And that's, that's really all
that counts at the end of the day.
But I think every parent deep inside
always feels like, okay, well maybe
there's, somebody's gonna see my kid,
or something's gonna come out out of it.
And everybody's got a nice
website and a good brochure.
What, what would you say are kind of
the, the, the red flags or the things
that are, somebody should look at or ask
before they, they join programs like that?
Nil: Okay.
So, first I fully agree with what
Patrick, just said we don't do
magic we want the players to improve
and that's what we seek, right?
I think that what we mainly
can achieve in one week.
for the player to experience how football
is coached in, in Spain, in Barcelona.
And then like set some ideas that
then the player from there, he can go.
we've had probably very close to 200
players that, they come for, for our
journeys here in Barcelona where they
can, play, they can compete with,
with the best clubs here in Barcelona.
And they can, you know, train with,
different coaches, very high level and
they get these assessment and so on.
And, and we don't do magic.
what Patrick said is that it opens
their mind, they always go back to their
countries with a different mindset because
they saw that what they were doing,
maybe it was not enough or that there's
other ways to do, you know, or that
they saw that player doing it that way.
usually if I had to conclude, you
know, the, the biggest asset or value
that we can give to the player is
that, we can really open his mind.
We can give answers to what he's
doing wrong, what he's not doing
wrong, what he's doing well, what
should he keep doing, what he needs
to completely change, you know?
Liron: So if I see Barcelona, a f, c
agent looking at you, I say, I know maybe
Nil: that's not gonna happen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's not gonna happen because
they're not allowed, uh, like directly.
So, but, uh, like one thing that
I hate, it's the bubble effect.
I see families moving from different
countries, many countries, let's say
United States, and they come here.
they are in a bubble.
They come from the United States and they
end, end up playing with more players
from the United States, and they don't
actually play with local players or local
coaches, you know, and it's like, why
did you move from the other of the world
to keep playing or, or, you know, or,
or doing as, as you were doing before.
I see plenty of organizations doing,
things like this, We have something local.
I need to have like
something local, very strong.
So I work with local players and
then I need that the players that
come from, from abroad, they can
be part of this local system.
And, and so both parties can
benefit one to the other.
And then when the, when the
international player comes, if they,
you know, eventually they stay,
um, because for a family matter,
they wanna stay because it's never
football, it's always other things.
Um.
Then we can, we can continue to help
the player on the transition, you
know, to guide them like, uh, to go
like to, to be like, uh, this bridge
between the club and the player, uh,
to help them individually and so on.
if you are gonna do something, you
have to really like ask before,
like, who am I gonna play with?
Uh, who am I gonna, you
know, who's gonna coach me?
And, and, and this place where they play?
Liron: No, I, I I got what you're saying.
I got, I got exactly.
No, I, it's actually, it's
a really good, distinction.
So who would you think is a, is a
good candidate for those, this kind of
experience as far as a player profile?
Nil: So first, I mean, any player can,
can benefit from me actually, because
at the end, Um, because also, like here,
there's many different levels, of course.
Like, almost like all of the
payers that we've had, they're
seeking the highest levels we need
players that are, first humble.
We need players that they're willing to do
more than what they have doing, you know?
And to understand that there's different
ways, not better, because we're not
talking about better ways, we're
talking about different ways, right?
so we need players to be able
to, to be getting this feedback.
we need players who are smart and,
and have this adaptability, you know,
within themselves because they'll
have to adapt because, you know,
language barriers, systems and so on.
it's very different.
Um, and then it really depends
on, on the stages, right?
Because, depending on the states that
they are, they will have to dominate
more one structure or the other, whereas
it's, uh, conditional or coordinative,
or, you know, cognitive and also on.
The player is confident, and if
he's not shy, if you're afraid of
failing, then that's not gonna help
because you won't have the time
sometimes to, you know, to develop,
Liron: Yeah.
What's, uh, Patrick, you're the
only English speaking, native here.
What's the opposite of shy??
Pat: being bold, being
conversational, outgoing.
Nil: so, that helps.
Liron: Yeah.
Can I, I wanna ask you both a question.
because we're very lucky to
have two people with enormous,
experience youth soccer.
In your experience on the American side,
do you think it's a better experience
for a kid to do, uh, a one or two week
immersive experience where it's revolving
around training in another system, or do
you think these tournament summer tours
are, are more beneficial for the kids?
Pat: I think the variable is,
is the kid and the teams, right?
What are, what are they gonna be
able to, and, and really what is
the experience in both environments?
So it, that all comes down to what
are they gonna be able to absorb in
a relatively short amount of time.
So if they go over there
and they're training.
Once a day with oth with all American
kids, like, you know, like Nil was
describing, then yeah, you're probably
not absorbing that much if you're at
a tournament where you're seeing teams
from all over Europe and, and you're
hearing different languages, you're
seeing different types of players, you're
hearing different types of coaches and
different types of, uh, different types of
strategies on the field, then that's gonna
be a really rewarding experience because
you're gonna, your mind is gonna be, is
gonna be trying to process a lot and,
and figure out which way is up at times.
So, but I could also envision a
training environment that could,
that could offer that as well,
where it's, it's very robust.
It's very well thought through, you're on
the field a couple times a day and, and,
and, you know, I, I, I think it's less,
which environment is better and really
what is the quality and the depth that
both of those environments can provide.
Nil: Absolutely.
I, I fully agree.
but at the end, usually the tournaments,
they are short, short games.
Like it's usually like 20 minutes game,
30 minutes game, 40 minutes games.
Um, it's very easy to
try to not concede goal.
So the difference that you can actually
tell on a game that are, you know, like
usually this short and that usually the
clubs, they don't wanna take so many risks
deciding that sometimes they're not so
different from what maybe you're used to.
Right.
Whereas I think that in the training,
I think that more things happen.
I think that they, you can
actually like see in the training.
You can see creativity and talent.
Because if you're going for an
experience like this, you wanna have
something different from what you have.
So I think that maybe trainings, they make
this be closer to what, you might have.
Pat: I spent a couple weeks
in, in Brazil at one point.
I was in college at the, at the time.
And, uh, getting the personal
feedback, getting and having those
coaches who coach at a very high level
point out things that I was doing
well that I wasn't doing well at.
That's, I mean, I remember that, you know,
that's something that sits with me forever
Liron: Yeah.
And, and even those tournaments, right?
Most of the times the boys leaving the
United States will do it with the same
group of kids that they're with in the
United States going with two or three
parents or coaches that they already know.
So as far as their chemistry and cohesive
environment, they're, they're the same.
They're just transferred.
So not saying it's not fun, but the
more I hear this, it just sounds like
the, an immersive training experience
sounds like a lot more enriching,
Pat: Um, but what do you see is a, is
a viable pathway forward for, for an
American player to, to get an opportunity
and maybe work his way through the ranks?
Nil: Okay, so, any player, they need
to understand that anything they
do, not a short it's a long ride?
So first, what they have to
understand is that the main thing
that for the player to speak Spanish.
That's the first thing.
we have players that they are moving
because the family has to move for job
or work, whatever, and, and they're
always they have this, concern that, no,
I gotta play in, in honor division, but
you know, you, you need to first learn
the language so you can communicate.
Then once you learn the language,
you can then, there will be many
things that you're doing that
you'll have to do differently.
so you'll need to build this confidence,
to build, to understand the game.
they need to go step by step.
I've had players here
that they were moving.
And, and they had opportunities to
start playing at the highest level,
but I told them to wait and to play
in the second, in the second best.
Because, because then usually you'll,
you'll have a more important role.
You'll play more minutes, the quality
of the minutes will be higher.
you'll be able to fail more 'cause
you won't be so afraid of, you
know, of, of, of not doing well.
And, and that really
builds the confidence.
I mean, every step that you do
from there, it's more solid.
Whereas if you start at the top, I'm
not saying that you cannot start at the
top, it really depends on the level.
We have players that they start at the
top and now they're signing for Barca.
So of course you can do this, but
it really depends on the level.
But you need very solid steps.
So usually it's starting with,
somewhere where you're challenged
because you need to be challenged.
And you won't come from the United
States to not be challenged.
Yet at the same time, you need space
to develop, you know, to, to have
the confidence to, to, and also
You need to be happy.
You need to have fun on the training.
If you're over pushed, the
kid's not gonna have fun.
And if he doesn't have fun, he's
not gonna as much because he
won't go, he doesn't wanna go to
the training because he's afraid.
We didn't talk enough about the joy
of, of, of playing football because
we're talking about where we wanna get,
but, um, we won't get anywhere if the
kid doesn't enjoy every step of it.
So we gotta push the players.
Yes.
We gotta push the kids.
Yes.
In terms of values of
trying to do the best.
Yes.
But always try to guide them in a
way that they love what they do.
The moment they stop loving what
they, what they do, then everything,
it's, it's, it's, it's done.
It's not gonna happen.
Liron: Yeah.
I'm gonna send my son to
learn Spanish immediately and,
uh, and work on my papers.
But Nil, you gotta, you know, others
misery makes me feel a little bit better.
So you gotta come and
tell us here right now.
It's gotta be something missing
in Catalan Youth Soccer that you
see that you wanna improve on.
It can't be perfect.
Nil: Absolutely.
And it's good that we have the system
where the player is pushed, but at
the same time, I feel that sometimes
players are treated as if they were, for
example, an orange because, the clubs
are very dedicated onto winning because
they need to keep the divisions right?
So that makes that in the system
we have every year you have many
signings the players, they don't
continue one year from the other.
Some of them do, but some of them don't.
You see sometimes clubs making
like an, an entire new squad for
the next, for the next season.
what happens is that the club,
they, they need to assure that
they have these divisions.
So what happens is that the club,
they create squads year by year and
sometimes they sign Based on what
that player is gonna perform, right?
Not on the next year,
on the very next year.
So this means that usually you grab the
orange, you grab the player, you squeeze
it, you take the orange outta it, and
then once it doesn't give me any more
juice, you throw it on the on the garbage.
And, and that it's what I was relating
with creating safe spaces where the player
can actually create and he can be, you
know, creative and, and, and try things.
Because what happens is that many
games, since you don't wanna lose,
So you're more destroying than creating.
So that means that, you don't allow the
player to be creative because usually.
you don't wanna concede goals and you
don't want the players to have mistakes,
then you will probably try to limit
the amount of different situations
that the player can be part of because
you wanna control the game as a coach.
So you don't want an open game.
So then the, the player, instead of having
10 different actions, he'll have three.
And we'll try to make this
player the best at those three.
And if we do the same with every
player, we have a very systematic way
of play, which we'll control the game.
So with this, I'm kind of like
critique with the system we have
here, and that's why I'm not
part of the clubs anymore here.
Liron: So system is bigger
than the the player.
Nil: Yes.
Uh, yes.
Yes, absolutely.
The the player is, uh, I, I think
I was going over the top here.
I was gonna say it's a big team.
Of course it's not a big team because
at the same time we would not, we would
not create the, the players that we
create if we didn't have the system.
So you cannot separate both.
You cannot separate both.
Liron: Okay.
So I feel a little bit better,
but not, not, not so much.
It didn't really, so it
didn't solve all my problems.
Patrick, any closing comments or are
we gonna let, uh, coach Nil, uh, go
to his, uh, of course, 10 o'clock
dinner in Spain, which is, uh, a normal
time for them to, to, to eat dinner.
Pat: No, I appreciate the time.
Enjoyed the conversation Nil.
Liron: we're gonna get to
see you very soon, I hope.
Right?
Nil: Yes.
Uh.
Liron: How can, how can our, uh, our,
our viewers and listeners contact you?
Nil: So they can, uh, they can go to
EOS football website or Instagram,
social media, uh, and so on.
anyone who wants to be in touch
with us, they can reach us in eos
football, e os uh, football com.
And, and yes, we're gonna be in
the summer in the United States.
We're gonna be in different states.
We're gonna be in California,
we're gonna be, uh, in New Jersey.
We're gonna be, we hope
to be also like in Canada.
We're still like, uh,
finishing the details.
Um, but yeah.
Yeah we hope to see you
very soon of course..
How do you say wow in Catalan?
Whew!
This one was a lot, a lot of information for
my small brain.
And what I appreciated about Nil is that he kept
bringing to this conversation
the game itself.
He was relentless on that.
He said, don't focus on a badge, not a
fantasy, no sales pitch.
At least that's what it felt.
Just the game.
One line from him really captures the whole thing for me.
If you are training without purpose, you're not training football.,
you're training ball.
That is a tough line because it's very useful,
but very nuanced.
A lot of kids today are doing a lot of private training, extra
touches, camps, technical work, et cetera.
Okay, but Nil's point is that none of that means very
much if it doesn't transfer to the game.
If it doesn't help the players solve pressure, recognize speed space,
and move the ball faster or help the team.
Yeah, absolutely.
From a developmental standpoint, I resonated with
a lot of what he was saying about how you can
you can set up technical problems, you can set up technical problems,
but they have to be realistic to the game at the highest levels.
And it sounds like he's very aware of
what these kids may experience in a year or two or five.
And it's important that all the players and
their parents are understanding what type of environment is out there
and what they're striving for.
the word environment, right, Pat?
maybe that's the best way to actually listen to this episode,
but not as should I send my kid to Spain, but
really, what kind of environment is actually shaping my kid right now?
Maybe we're focusing on the wrong stuff sometimes.
What kind of training is actually challenging for my kid.
Because if the environment is not stretching a player
then all this activity in the world, all that effort can leave
him short when the real game begins.
So that was Nil Congost and
Pat, I got to say, please come back or
probably be with Matt next time and we'll have the viewers judge which one is better.
But you really raised the bar here
And if you enjoyed this episode, everybody, please
subscribe to wherever you get your podcasts.
Follow us on YouTube.
Send this one to another soccer parent who's trying to make sense of it all or
packing their bags to Spain right now.
I appreciate it, Liron
I'll hopefully be back soon.
I can't wait, brother.
Ciao.
C.