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Welcome to Harbouring Hope, a podcast brought to you by the Nanaimo & District Hospital Foundation, hosted by Foundation CEO Barney Ellis-Perry.
In each episode, we’ll take you behind the scenes of the Nanaimo Regional General Hospital, Oceanside Health Centre, and other facilities supported by our Foundation to explore the many departments, innovations, and dedicated professionals who keep our healthcare system running. From doctors and nurses to administrative leaders and patients with lived experience, we’ll hear powerful stories that reveal both the challenges and the triumphs within our hospital walls.
Most importantly, we’ll shine a light on the critical role our community plays…because behind every success story is a network of generous supporters helping to make it all possible.
Everything Podcasts (00:11.534)
They're starting to realize that the reason the South Island is overwhelmed is they have to deal with five hundred and fifty thousand people north of the island who get sent to the South Island to get their care. We're the people who are overwhelming their system. So it's as much in their interest down south to get us in the North Island some facilities so that we aren't shipping our chronically ill patients.
down to the south. Now that is happening with cancer care, et cetera, but the really time sensitive issue being cardiac care is something that has to happen up here immediately.
Everything Podcasts (01:02.03)
This is Harboring Hope, the podcast that takes you inside the unique challenges and exciting opportunities facing healthcare in Central and North Vancouver Island. I'm Barney Ellis Perry, your host and CEO of the Nanaimon District Hospital Foundation. I'll be with you as we hear stories from the front lines of our healthcare facilities and from people whose generous time and donations support the ongoing improvements of healthcare in our community. With this episode, I'm excited to kick off season two of Harboring Hope.
I hope you will join us all season as we dig deeper into topics like healthcare advocacy, innovation, philanthropy, and all the exciting things happening here in our region, thanks to your support for the Nanaimoan District Hospital Foundation. All right, let's get into it.
Everything Podcasts (01:52.43)
Nanaimo, British Columbia. It's one of the most breathtaking places to live in Canada, maybe even the world. I'm a proud resident here, not just for that reason, but also because of the wonderfully resilient people who live here. We're a scrappy bunch, and as our guests today can confirm, sometimes that's what it takes to get what you need. Nanaimo is historically a blue-collar community where access to health care has long been a challenge. This area is home to half the population of Vancouver Island, but it only gets one-fifth of its health resources.
This is why many locals end up making the trip to the South Island to get critical care. Addressing these gaps has required persistent grassroots advocacy from determined local leaders. And I've got two of those leaders joining me on the podcast today. They're from the Fair Care Alliance, a coalition of leaders and community members working together to ensure fair access to health care for the 490,000 citizens living on North and Central Vancouver Island. Through coordinated efforts like letter writing, ad campaigns, and events,
The Faircare Alliance has helped push our healthcare needs into the spotlight, making them a central issue in the most recent provincial election. In fact, thanks to the hard work of these folks, Nanaimo now stands out as the only community in British Columbia with two health care projects approved to move forward into concept planning: a new patient tower and a cardiovascular cath lab. Faircare Alliance co-founder Donna Hayes and board member John Waddell are here to tell us more about what it has taken to get us here.
Well, thank you both for joining us on Harboring Hope. I think when I look at both of you here, it really hits me that people often say I can't make a difference. And we hear that a lot. What can one person do? And having two people who have massive impact together, in in one place on one podcast is really exciting because you guys are just the energizer bunnies for getting stuff done in our community. So really thank you for taking time out of your crazy schedules to be here.
So I'm gonna ask you each to start off a question, the same question. And that is Nanaimo is often historically described as a scrappy sort of blue collar community. And in your views, how has that shaped the healthcare challenges people face here today and their response to them, to those challenges? Donna, do you wanna go first? Sure. Thanks, Barney.
Everything Podcasts (04:07.148)
I think because we are a blue collar town that people get very involved in the day to day, just trying to survive, trying to raise your family, trying to do your job right. You know, there's lots of conversation in our community about how we bring up how do we bring up that child poverty level, those types of things where people are working really, really hard and engaging to take care of their families. And so what ends up happening is they don't really realize there's a deficit in things like health care until they really need it. Because they're just so busy trying to survive.
And to do their job and take care of their family in a proper manner. And so I think what's happened is because you know, those white collar jobs are down in Victoria, where government lives and survives, the infrastructure has gone there, but it hasn't come to Nanaw because we ourselves have not created that conversation to make awareness that there is that need. Yeah. I totally agree. John, what are your thoughts on that? I can agree totally with what Donna has said.
I grew up in Vancouver but spent my summers working at Crofton on Vancouver Island. And I also had a grandmother who lived in Oak Bay. And the two cultures, you know, they're just a total dichotomy between the North Island and the South Island. And the South Island, quite frankly, the closer to the powers, closer to the checkbook. more senior, more time.
So they could concentrate and get what they needed. Nanaimo, you know, shift work, which I did, you just don't have the time to advocate for what you need. And it shows. I was shocked when I came back here and moved to Nanus Bay with the disparity. The disparity with everywhere, not just with the South Island, but the disparity with the rest of the world from this community. Yeah, a hundred percent. I
as someone like you, newish to this community, I was completely shocked when I came here. And I think we see a lot of that. People don't do the research, you know, they don't think about as Canadians, we don't think about healthcare being not contiguous across our country. And and what we see here is there's a big disparity in that that's been a big eye opener to all you know, you and I and many others people that we encounter. Was there a specific moment or experience that inspired you to get involved in healthcare advocacy like you have in the last couple of years?
Everything Podcasts (06:30.242)
well you know what it is, Barney. I got home from a golf I got home from a golf game and my dear wife Kim said, John, Celtic Warrior, you have to get involved because I w just watched a segment on the island news and there is absolutely no cardiovascular care north of the Malahat. And quite frankly, y my father died of a heart attack and that
hit home to me. So we came down and met with you, Barney. That's how I got involved. The rest is history. I'll never forget that first meeting. It was awesome. Obviously awesome. Donna, for you, what's driven you? You've been you've been doing this for a long time and have been absolutely pivotal in this whole conversation for 15 more years, if not more. tell us about that.
Well, I I you know, I I've been working in healthcare for thirty-five years, just in my you know, in my everyday job. And a lot of people have been asking me lately, why are you passionate about healthcare? And for me, it goes back to probably my late teens. So I became aware that my mother was very ill in my teenage years. And I had a great mom, like very involved in our lives on every committee, you know, birthday cakes that were custom designed for each kid. Like I had that great mom.
But in the background was always this knowledge that my mom was not well. And when I was eight, I guess about sixteen, I should say, we got the formal diagnosis that she had MS. And I gotta tell you, as a teenager, I didn't know what that was. And and started asking questions, you know, in science class. Well, what's multiple sclerosis? And what we did know at that time is she couldn't actually get health care at home. She got diagnosed by her family doctor here, but had to get health care in the US.
And I saw a shift in our life where my father built her a home that was all ground level with double opening doors, preparing for wheelchairs, and what our what her life was going to be like. And what is kind of ironic about that whole situation is through the whole process, my mom's like, I don't think I have MS. Yes, I'm ill and I have all these symptoms, but I don't think I have MS. Well, two years ago, sure enough, my mom does not have MS. She's been misdiagnosed for the last thirty-five years. She does have a rare genetic disorder.
Everything Podcasts (08:52.802)
That now she's been diagnosed by a doctor in town. But for me, it made me passionate to find out what's going on with healthcare and why can't we get help at home? Why are there no doctors here to help us? Why does my mom have to go to the States to find a doctor who's going to help with healthcare? And I saw what that did for my family and how it changed the direction of the conversation. And for me, it's kind of been my whole career talking about healthcare and then talking to the doctors here about, you know, why would this happen to one patient and finding out it's not just one patient?
It's hundreds, it's thousands of patients that have this situation in different healthcare situations. And I've lived that myself with my mom for basically my whole life, not understanding what was going on, and then not being able to get help. And so for me, that's why I'm passionate about creating this change and being able to create these situations where families can get the diagnosis they need in the place they live with their families surrounding them and supporting them. And if we can create that change and that opportunity for families here, that's that's the piece I'm passionate about.
What was the moment when you realized something had to change and that advocacy needed to be organized and we needed to march together? So the next triggering point for me was meeting Barney on a second day of work. And the reason that's a triggering point for me is because not only did it make I realized there need to be change in conversation, but suddenly it gave me some ideas and someone to partner with on creating the change for the conversation. It was like, you know what? We have to change this conversation. It has to be us.
There isn't some other group, there isn't some organization. It's gotta be us and we're gonna have to create it. So a couple of triggering pieces there, and it was meeting people who are also passionate about healthcare. I love it. So, John, what motivated you to get involved with the Fair Care Alliance? Well well, it wasn't it was entirely self-serving. You know, as I mentioned, my father died of a heart attack, and I said, I enjoy life too much to die of a heart attack. If I have one, I want to survive it. So entirely self-serving. And that was what initially
My focus was when I met you, Barney, we talked about the cath lab. We gave you a small amount of money, wanted it to go towards achieving a cath lab goal. And then we had our eyes opened. You invited us to I think you already knew what y you were setting us up on this. You invited you invited my wife and I to tour the hospital over cr your Christmas decoration tour. And I just
Everything Podcasts (11:18.35)
that was an eye opener for me in terms of the inadequacy of the physical plant that we had here. When I was talking to the the medical practitioners as we saw, I mean, they were all wonderful. They were all motivated. They were driven in their jobs. But they're basically my wife and I walked out of there said, that hospital is basically a mash unit. It's tense. It's temporary. You've got
patients stashed in cupboards. It was it was terrible. And when I saw the you know the your staff were so impassioned. But at the same point in time, I've seen them also at w couple of our presentations we did, I've seen your staff brought to tears when they're describing what they have to deal with. So that was that's what got me going on this thing.
And thankfully, a lot of my friends seem to be they're getting active and we have to keep that that going. We have to make it a movement to get this ridiculous situation on the North Island resolved. Yeah, and a movement's a really great cause. And the Faircare Alliance has been, as I understand it, a movement like this community's never seen. And that's been
you know, incredibly effective. And Donna, I'd like to ask you about, you know, grassroots advocacy. It's a very long road. and what did those actual early efforts look like that preceded Fair Care Alliance and led into the Fair Care Alliance? Yeah, so I think it's really important to understand when you talk about grassroots advocacy, I think people need to understand they are getting in for a long conversation. It doesn't just happen overnight. And those beginning steps for us really came to educating the public.
is the statistics that we had, they're overwhelming. They truly are overwhelming. They paint a picture. And once we started getting out into community, so it started early on with MSA, like I said, doing community liaison work with them and getting out to those rotary clubs, those those, you know, Chamber of Commerce luncheons, those Kwanas clubs, like we spoke to hundreds of groups and just educating them and telling them what the facts are, that that's really where it starts because the community can't have a voice.
Everything Podcasts (13:36.738)
When they don't actually know the facts, when they can't share or talk about the facts with other people. So the beginning of any grassroots movement is specifically about educating the public about what the facts are and giving them something to grab onto as part of a conversation. And in turn, what ends up happening is as you start sharing the facts, people start sharing their stories. They start sharing what's going on in other places. You start hearing about related events or related pieces. And you actually then, as a grassroots group,
Get to see a broader, larger overall picture that you can't see when you're standing in one sector. You actually can't see it when you're standing in the middle of it. You need to get outside of it. You need to spread the information. You need to and then you need to listen to what you're hearing and to be able to put together those pieces that seem completely unrelated, which actually have a very fine line that attached them all to each other. And tacking onto what that is is what's going to give you that success later.
Couldn't agree more. And I think part of it is a call to action. I'd I'd like to ask John about this. From your perspective, John, how important has community support been, the letters, the events, the public pressure in driving the progress that we've seen? You know, we we fair care, one of our initial things was a rally in the Naimo, free election. And then subsequent to that, like several more rallies up in the noose and then did some presentations. The
It's it's absolutely critical it because those events really focused and brought an awareness as to how bad the situation was. And after those events, multiple people came up to myself, came up to Donna, came up to you, came up to everywhere, everyone, saying I didn't realize it was this bad because a lot of us came from afar. You know, I came from Vancouver, but via Calgary, funny rooting.
Other people, you know, just retired from wherever, you know, Winnipeg or whatever, seeing this beautiful neck of the woods we live in. And we just assumed that yeah, it's going to be fine. Until you go to a presentation and then you realize and you see the statistics of the number of people who are dying unnecessarily.
Everything Podcasts (15:53.934)
That was a wake-up call for many people on it. and we had, you know, we we thought we had made had a breakthrough with the election and some announcements that were made pre-election. Unfortunately, we're still working on those pre-election promises. We seem to be at every step of the way, and we keep in, you know, as we take a step forward, take two steps forward, take a step back. Managing the community's expectation and
Keeping the community informed of the progress that we're making as well as the roadblocks that we're facing is absolutely critical because we are facing roadblocks. just you know, it's unfortunate, but there are roadblocks being put up by interested parties, but we have to the movement is critical for everybody who lives here, their families. It's critical for the economy. So
Development having proper health care is absolutely critical to bringing investment dollars to this community. And if they see a community that doesn't have healthcare, they won't people won't locate here. So we have to have that awareness out there and we have to keep the focus on where we're going. Well, I think to John's point is that and you coined this, Barney, it there's an ecosystem, right?
Successful communities have something in common. They have an ecosystem that is all tied to each other and where you come together and support those various points. So if you don't have healthcare, it's hard to grow any other sector. And I think, you know, and just a bit back to the sort of the the action people took, like we didn't mention like over eleven thousand people signed the petition. There have been hundreds and hundreds of letters sent to our elected officials at all levels of government.
You know, the the community has really responded in an amazing way. And I I'm often was heartened when I, you know, still do get emails from people saying, Who should I be sending letters to? Like j people will read something and they'll just want to take action and the you know, and they go to the fair care website and they they wanna make a difference. And I think that's done a lot to really galvanize our community in a positive way. So Don, I'd like to ask you that you know, what's really exciting is you know, Island Health leader said to me today offhand.
Everything Podcasts (18:15.694)
You isn't it amazing what political pressure does? Because we are the only project in British Columbia to have a green light for the concept planning of the patient tower and the CAF lab, which is absolutely incredible. So we now have these two projects moving into concept planning. And but Donna, tell us a little bit about what did it take to reach this milestone? Should have opened the behind the curtain a little bit, maybe. Well, I probably should start by saying it took some courage. It took a group of really dedicated
people, a large group of very dedicated people to understand where this conversation really belongs. This conversation is owned by our community. So it was very difficult for MSA as an example or Island Health as an example to have the con this conversation on their own. Because they were having, for years, for decades, they were having this conversation about the deficit in infrastructure, right? We know the statistics, we've talked about that.
And they were having these conversations. They were submitting concept plans. They were doing all of these pieces and we're doing it in a very frustrated manner. You can look at it from a what it costs perspective. We're the taxpayers paying the bill. It's up to us to tell the politicians where they should be investing our money and where the greatest deficit and need is. And then it took the courage to go head to head with those leaders and take a stand that wasn't always popular. You know, we took criticism, people saying, you know, you're being too hard on our provincial leaders. It's like, well
somebody's feet have to be held to the fire in this conversation. And somebody has to hold the messaging true to what it has to be. This isn't a conversation about the people who live north of the Malahat versus the people who live south of the Malahat. This conversation is about a million people who live on Vancouver Island who quite frankly do not have access to the standard of care that I and every single one here as a Canadian citizen are entitled to have access to.
So, you know, we've referenced a little bit where that disparity has happened. I think what ha what we were able to do at Fair Care is start compiling, as I said, being outside of these systems that are locked in, that are at the center of the conversation, being outside of them as community, being able to look in and go, you know, a lot of these conversations are paralleled. And we actually need to collate them into a meaningful voice for our community to tell the government what's important to us, what you should be spending our taxpayers' dollars on.
Everything Podcasts (20:35.486)
and I think that that's how we were actually able to reach the milestone that we have because now there's some level of accountability. Right? This isn't just about a line item in a budget. Now that's very important. I don't want to say that that's not important. It is. This is a commitment, a promise that has been made to the people who live here on this island that there will be investment by this province into the infrastructure that will save the lives of the people who live here. And quite frankly, we're 20% of the population of BC.
We deserve to have access to the funding to pay for our infrastructure like every other community in Canada is couldn't agree more. John, I gotta ask you then, so getting this approval to concept planning and and they have gotten the message clearly, they are expediting it. This is gonna be done a lot faster than normal, we just learned today, which is really great. But getting that approval is one thing, and that's the concept planning. Then there's a business case and then we get into, you know, the actual construction project.
But what are next challenges in ensuring they actually get built and delivered? There's a lot of challenges to getting it. Well, we have to ho we certainly have to hold people's feet to the fire. Because you can stall you know you can stall plans, you can stall all of this stuff to make things fit y your your agenda. I d Donna hit upon a something there, and that is that this is all a Vancouver Island. I think
We're starting to see a realization in the South Island that they see their system on the South Island as being overwhelmed and inadequate, etc., down in the South. They're starting to realize that the reason the South Island is overwhelmed is they have to deal with 550,000 people north of the island who get sent to the South Island to get their care. We're the people
who are overwhelming their system. So it's as much in their interest down south to get us in the North Island some facilities so that we aren't shipping our chronically ill patients down to the south. Now that is happening with cancer care, et cetera, but the really time sensitive issue being cardiac care is something that has to happen up here immediately. So I I don't know how you
Everything Podcasts (23:01.048)
Get people to make live up to their promises. I always tried to do that just because that was the ethical thing to do. Maybe you just keep reminding people, if you don't live up to your promise, you know, that's not being ethical. and you just keep pointing to that. You have to do this, period. No ifs, ands, or buts.
The subtext that you're not saying is when when you've helped us do that, it's on billboards, social media, newspaper ads, television ads, radio ads. Yeah, you have to remind them of it. and it's it's you you just can't allow people to it seems like we take a step forward and something, you know, it sort of was okay, we put on the cath cath lab.
we would sort of we did a business plan for it in a certain dollar amount. Well then we had people say, Well, no, the you're way underestimating costs. It's going to cost double or triple that. Well then we proved that that that criticism was wrong. So then the next hurdle was, you the operating costs. We gave them an estimate on the operating costs. that's a ridiculously low number.
on the operating costs. And we s that no it isn't. We have people who ran calf labs all over North America. My next door neighbor ran one of the largest calf labs in California at Stanford, told us what the costs actually were of these things. So these unfortunately there are hurdles being thrown out there that really are not realistic. They're more just thrown out to distract us and to
than to actually offer any concrete construction. So we just have to say, okay, maybe that's BS, pardon the expression. we're going you know, you're wrong. We so we just have to keep being ahead of the curve. We have to anticipate the hurdles that are going to be thrown our way. And as they get thrown up, we solve them.
Everything Podcasts (25:11.382)
Yeah, and I think that comes back to sort of the scrappy nature. It was like, yeah, you can put another obstacle in it, we're gonna get over it. And we've been very fortunate. We just anticipate the obstacles that are getting thrown. And we're doing a much better job of that right now. Thanks to Donna and to you, Barney. Well, and the donors. I mean, you're one of our our very generous donors and we've had this whole Faircare Alliance has been funded by donors and that's hundreds of thousands of dollars that have enabled this to happen.
And then the studies that we're referencing, the things like when they've thrown up an obstacle, we we do the study, we show them what a cath lab costs, we go and do all the details, we do our work. So we never just are throwing sort of epitaphs at them, we're throwing data and we're we're giving them the information they need and and it's evolved into a partnership in a lovely way. Like it's not it has not been adversarial as it's evolved and I think that's really important. I think it speaks volumes to to the diplomacy of Donna and I dare say you sometimes, John.
I have to commend you on your meeting that you were talking about today because that is a complete change. It's now seems to be a collaborative effort as opposed to something where the tone seems to have changed based on what you're telling me. Which is fantastic news. Yeah. It it really feels like that, you know. But it is definitely a s a a sea change. So Donna, I'm gonna ask you, if you could deliver one message directly to decision makers today, what would that be? Do the right thing.
I like that. I mean it's simple. Do the right thing. And and part of the reason it's easy to say that is because when you're doing the right thing, you will always have the community behind you. You will always have the support behind you. I think the one thing that we've been able to show those that do have decision making power is that groups like Faircare will come out to support and stand behind you and lift you up and make you strong.
We're going to help create those out of the box ideas. I mean, how many times at the table have you both heard me say, we need to get outside of our comfort zone, outside of the box, and doing something completely different? And that's what fair care is. Fair care is completely outside of the box. It is looking at advocacy in a completely and totally new way, doing things completely and totally different. But at the end of the day, it's about holding those decision makers' feet to the fire so they do the right thing. That's my challenge to them. I love that.
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That's awesome. And John, you've been involved in these types of efforts in Alberta where you live for a long time and now here. For other communities facing similar disparities, what lessons can they learn from Nanaimo's experience? I can't think of any community anywhere, quite honestly, that suffers the disparity that Nanaimo has faced. I don't think there's another community certainly on the cardiovascular front.
anywhere in the Western world that has much of a as a shortfall in terms of the services that it has. Just if you want, you know, advice, be true to yourself and just fight like hell. And don't accept, you know, platitudes and obstructionist kinds of rhetoric that you get, because we've had a lot of that. It's getting better, and I'm so pleased for that.
but you just have to stick by your guns and and just eye straight ahead and stay focused. And your car would do the right thing on the bumper sticker, I think. Well, my wife my wife s once said, John, y you're honest Johnny. You know. And you you just have to just do what's right. Yeah. A hundred percent. Do the right thing. I love it.
Donna, my last question for you is going to be, what does success look like for Fair Care Alliance over the next few years? The ultimate success for Fair Care is that we don't exist anymore. Because if we cease to exist, it means that the inequity that exists in our current healthcare system with respect to programs and infrastructure no longer exists. So for me, as much as I love the group and I, you know, and and I will always stay connected, for me, our ultimate success is that we wouldn't have to exist because there wouldn't be a problem.
Th this wouldn't be a conversation. My fear is that we will always have to exist. And that, you know, we've talked about Nanaimo and and and today we're talking about healthcare, but we could talk about lots of other topics. there's always going to be the need for community to advocate. But really and truly for fair care, if we didn't exist five years from now, it's because we've accomplished the things we set out to do and our leaders did the right thing and stood behind the promises that they made.
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And our community is getting access to the healthcare that we so desperately need. And John, my final question for you is if someone listening wants to get involved in advocacy, where should they start? Do you give classes? Is it like Celtic Warrior College? If anyone wants to get involved, I think contact Faircare and we will get you doing things for us. You know, the one thing about volunteerism, if you have an organization that relies on volunteers.
is you have to make sure that the people who are volunteering actually have something to do and there is no shortage of things that Faircare can be doing. We will direct people in terms of our advocacy efforts, to make sure that we're being heard. So, contact Faircare, we'll give you something to do. You'll never be bored. Well, thank you both for your time today. This is spectacular and
The energy you bring to this is incredible and the whole community's so lucky to have you both. It's amazing. But the power of the individual effort and doing the right thing.
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Thank you for joining us for this kickoff episode of season two of the Harboring Hope Podcast. This season we're doing something new. I'll be sharing a final thought for each episode, or what I like to call my eye-opening moment. After chatting with Donna and John today, something has become clear to me, and that's the power we all have as individuals to affect change. If we truly want change to happen, if we want to improve healthcare in our community, it starts with us.
Donna and John have shown us examples of the incredible things that can be accomplished when friends and neighbors galvanize behind a cause. You don't have to be a politician, you don't have to be a leader. You can help make change happen with just your mighty pen and paper, and maybe your keyboard. To learn more about the Fair Care Alliance and how you can get involved, visit weNeedHealthcare.ca.
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This eye-opening moment is powered by the Code Brew Cafe at Nanaimo Regional General Hospital, where every cup you enjoy and every meal you savor helps fuel healthcare excellence in Central Vancouver Island. A hundred percent of Code Brew's profits go directly towards purchasing medical equipment and funding vital projects at NRGH and the other regional health facilities we serve.
See you next time on Harboring Hope, where we will be talking about some of the very exciting innovations happening at NRGH with our Executive Medical Director Kelly Cox and Colin Stansfield, CEO of the Nanaimo Prosperity Corporation. You can learn more about the Nanaimo and District Hospital Foundation at Nanaimo HospitalFoundation.com.
Another Everything Podcast production. Visit Everything Podcast.com, a division of Patison Media. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast.