Ocarina of Time 3D

David and Kady are back to chat all about Ocarina of Time 3D! They break down the updated graphics, smoother gameplay, and fun motion controls that make this remake such a standout. Along the way, they explore Link’s connections with characters like Saria and Malon, dig into the emotional twists of his journey, and celebrate the game’s incredible world-building. They wrap things up with some thoughts on how Ocarina of Time continues to influence the Zelda series—and maybe even tease what’s coming next. Don’t miss this trip back to Hyrule!

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• Joshua Kurtz

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Other shows by Sixfive Media:
Returning Student - In this documentary-style podcast, 40-year-old David Geisler returns to the very same school he left 20 years ago to finish the college degree he never got.

See all Sixfive Media shows here: sixfive.media
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The views, information, or opinions expressed during Another Zelda Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Sixfive Media and its employees.

This has been a production of Sixfive Media.
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Creators and Guests

Host

David Geisler

KR

Host

Kady Roberts

What is Another Zelda Podcast?

It’s a secret to everybody. | Another Zelda Podcast is a show wherein we talk about all things regarding The Legend of Zelda series!

David Geisler: 00:22

Hello, and welcome to another Zelda podcast. I am your cohost today, David Geisler, and I'm here with my cohost, Katie Roberts. Katie, how are you?

Kady Roberts: 00:30

I'm good. I'm kinda scared. I've done this in ages.

David Geisler: 00:33

Well, it's been about 2 2 months, 2 and a half months? Yeah. I have seen

Kady Roberts: 00:36

you in forever.

David Geisler: 00:38

2 and a half months does equal forever. You have to it did it did feel like a really long time. I don't mean to to make a dumpster

Kady Roberts: 00:42

out there. It yeah.

David Geisler: 00:44

How how was your break? Your mid your season break from season 6 going into 7 here?

Kady Roberts: 00:48

Oh, so much has happened. Well, I have a kitten. Well, I don't have a kitten now. My roommate Top

David Geisler: 00:53

of the list. Things that have happened in my life.

Kady Roberts: 00:55

Top of

David Geisler: 00:55

the list.

Kady Roberts: 00:56

Top of the list.

David Geisler: 00:56

I got a kitten.

Kady Roberts: 00:57

My roommate has a kitten now, and she's very cute. She's, like, 2 or 3 months. Her name is Eevee, like the Pokemon. And she looks just like my cat, Atreus. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:06

So they literally look like brother and sister, and he treats her like she is his daughter and it's the cutest thing in the world.

David Geisler: 01:12

So how old is your cat? Like, 78 or something?

Kady Roberts: 01:14

Yeah. Like around 7. Yeah. So which normally he doesn't get along well with cats. So we were like, maybe if it's a kitten, like, we don't know.

Kady Roberts: 01:22

He instantly took to her.

David Geisler: 01:23

Maybe because she's so young.

Kady Roberts: 01:25

Yeah. I know. She's young and he's he likes playing and so she's super playful. So he's been really having fun with that. Oh my gosh.

David Geisler: 01:31

It's amazing.

Kady Roberts: 01:31

It's been really cute. And then I've been working at Iheart.

David Geisler: 01:35

I saw this on LinkedIn.

Kady Roberts: 01:36

Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:37

Yeah. You got a job at Iheart.

Kady Roberts: 01:38

Got a job at Iheart. And my job is continuing to grow. I just started helping out on the Angie Taylor morning show for rock Mhmm. Which is crazy because it's, like, a dream of mine. And it's been super fun.

Kady Roberts: 01:50

But it starts at 6 AM and I live a long ways away. So I have to be up at, like, 4:30 to go to that.

David Geisler: 01:56

Pretty much every day, 4:30?

Kady Roberts: 01:58

No. Because that's the issue. If I was, like if I had a consistent schedule, I could have, like, a consistent sleep schedule. And you

David Geisler: 02:04

just adjust. Yep.

Kady Roberts: 02:05

I do promotion work as well. So, like, Mondays Fridays, I do that. And then one day, I might work until midnight. This next Friday, I have a call time to be there at 2 AM. Okay.

Kady Roberts: 02:17

So I've been, like, sleeping a few hours at night and then crashing during the day and then waking up. Like, literally before I came here, because I work today, I woke up and I was like, what time is it? Where what day is it? Is it tomorrow? That's how I've been lately.

David Geisler: 02:30

It can be that way.

Kady Roberts: 02:31

So delirious.

David Geisler: 02:32

Yeah. It can be that way. Well, congratulations on the gig and all of that. That's very exciting. I hear you on the different time stuff.

David Geisler: 02:38

For me, sometimes I'm going I mean, I'm still I'm still in school. You graduated. And, sometimes I have to close the store that I work at as my side job, so I have go in at 2 PM, and I'm there till about midnight. Mhmm. Then other times, I have to open the store, and I'm also waking up at 4 in the morning to get to the store.

David Geisler: 02:54

And then I get out at, like, 2 PM. And that I open at least 1 to 3 times a week, and I close 1 to 3 times a week, and it kinda alternates. It is just the thrashiest sleep schedule in the world.

Kady Roberts: 03:04

It's the worst. It's the worst. I'll say it. No. Like, not having a normal schedule because this is the thing too, is I also am only part time at the moment.

Kady Roberts: 03:15

So I don't even have, like, a full schedule. So, like, yesterday like, today I had to get up at 4:30, get there. Yesterday, I slept in until 2 PM.

David Geisler: 03:23

Hey. Let it out. Alright. Yep.

Kady Roberts: 03:24

So I'm, like, I don't my world is in a never ending circle right now.

David Geisler: 03:29

You slept until 2 PM? Yes. Like, when did you go to bed?

Kady Roberts: 03:33

I think probably 2.

David Geisler: 03:35

Oh, okay. Yeah. I took a 12 hours.

Kady Roberts: 03:36

I was gonna say 12 to 14 hours is, like, my sweet spot.

David Geisler: 03:39

Of sleep?

Kady Roberts: 03:40

Yes. Cool. So that's, like, the amount of sleep I need to function.

David Geisler: 03:44

Wow. Yeah. Okay. That's a lot of time.

Kady Roberts: 03:48

It's a lot. It's my entire day sleeping. But it's okay.

David Geisler: 03:54

I'm I'm pretty good at 6 hours. I'm very happy about that. I can I can, like I kind of naturally wake up right around after 6 hours? I if I go to bed at midnight, I pretty much wake up at 6, maybe 6:30, and I'm pretty good.

Kady Roberts: 04:04

It's the adult in you. See, we talked about this earlier off camera. I'm not I'm not an adult yet. I don't have normal human responsibilities.

David Geisler: 04:14

You just made me speechless.

Kady Roberts: 04:16

This is true. All I do is play video games all day and sit in my house.

David Geisler: 04:21

You're transitioning. You well, it's what's also hysterical is you've graduated, and I have not yet. And, you are transitioning into an adult life. But it's gonna you know, it it takes some time, I guess. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 04:31

A couple of years. I'm getting there. In the meantime, time, I'm playing, like, 5 different video games.

David Geisler: 04:35

What what's some of the cool coolest things

Kady Roberts: 04:38

happening for you over at Iheart? Oh. I mean, the Angie show is awesome. Like, I've been getting to hang out with them and getting to be in the studio. And I got to be on air the 1st day I worked for them, which was really cool.

David Geisler: 04:50

Is it terrestri is it week daily episodes? Or is it prerecorded and edited and then put on terrestrial radio? No.

Kady Roberts: 04:56

It's live.

David Geisler: 04:56

Live. It's live. Wow.

Kady Roberts: 04:58

Yeah. And so my I'm a technical producer right now. So I do, like, the phone calls, the vlog. I do, their podcasting, all that kind of stuff, and then any other little side quests they send for me. So today, I was looking at rock concerts coming so we can find tickets to give out.

Kady Roberts: 05:14

Yep. So that's definitely the coolest thing.

David Geisler: 05:18

Oh, another thing. That also sounds awesome. Sorry. I'm being a little ADD right now. But, we just discovered that did you move?

David Geisler: 05:27

Or how did we just today, it took we live 15 minutes away from each other on foot now. On foot. Yes. So how do how do we how do we become neighbors?

Kady Roberts: 05:35

I don't know, but it's honestly so nice because in o four, it was kind of a trek to get over to each other.

David Geisler: 05:42

Well, you were doing blue line all the way to downtown and then back up and out, or sometimes you were taking the bus. Right? Yeah. That's why we met up down we would meet up on campus once in a while.

Kady Roberts: 05:49

Yeah. But yeah. Now I like, because I was gonna take a nap after my work today Yeah. With my 3 hour nap. And so I was like, okay.

Kady Roberts: 05:58

I need to know how long I could sleep for. And I was like, 15 minute walk. Like, that's nothing. So So

David Geisler: 06:03

are you just, like, down Damon? We gotta get into our episode here, but I'm just catching up with you.

Kady Roberts: 06:06

Well, yeah. No. I literally, like if you go down this street Yeah. And then, when you hit Winchester, turn down Chicago, that's all it takes. What?

Kady Roberts: 06:14

It's literally, like, 1 street, 2 street. I'm I'm at Are

David Geisler: 06:17

you in Wicker Park? Are you over there in West Loop?

Kady Roberts: 06:19

Yeah. I'm in, like, Ukrainian Village.

David Geisler: 06:22

Wow. Yeah. Wow. Like, by the Mariano's over there?

Kady Roberts: 06:25

Oh, I'm right next to that.

David Geisler: 06:26

That's literally the grocery store I walk to. Yeah. You're right.

Kady Roberts: 06:29

It's, like, a 15 minute walk. No. And you wanna know what's even crazier, talking about the Angie Taylor show. She also lives right down the road from me. Really?

Kady Roberts: 06:36

Like, everyone just lives in Ukrainian Village apparently.

David Geisler: 06:39

Wow. Wow. If you ever wanna stop at The Stoop, I think it's called. It's a little, like, resale shop where they do resale clothing. Maybe it's changed names now.

David Geisler: 06:47

It was my cousin, Alex Sheehan, who's been on this show a few times, his wife's store, but they've now moved to, Georgia, I think, actually. So they gave it away, but the namesake might still be there. But that building is owned by, Ben Johnson and Emily Johnson who have also been on this show before. And so I don't know. Just a fun thing to live.

David Geisler: 07:06

They live about it out. They bought the building, like, 10 years ago, and, you know, it's not like they're, like, billionaires or anything. So they've just been working on this thing for the past 10 years, and it's gorgeous. It's like it's full. It's fully remodeled now, and they actually had an opening.

David Geisler: 07:16

But that's a cool I can't believe you at least live over there in that area. Alright. Alright. I know. I was I

Kady Roberts: 07:22

know we gotta get into it, but we didn't catch up with you at all. I've just been rambling about myself.

David Geisler: 07:25

Oh gosh. Oh gosh.

Kady Roberts: 07:26

Wait. Wait. So you're still in school. You're still doing returning,

David Geisler: 07:30

In school. Yeah. And if this is your first episode, listeners, thank you so much. We are catching up a little bit. This is our first episode of season 7.

David Geisler: 07:36

We will be talking about Ocarina of Time 3 d today. We're gonna be doing essentially a review episode. We haven't quote, unquote reviewed Ocarina of Time since the Ocarina of Time review episode back in season 2, which was, like, 5 years ago.

Kady Roberts: 07:47

Mhmm.

David Geisler: 07:47

And, Katie, this is your experience. You experienced it for the first time.

Kady Roberts: 07:51

Yes. And so

David Geisler: 07:52

we'll be discussing that in just a little bit here, and I can't wait to get into it. I've got my kind of my notes put together. We'll kinda walk through the game and talk about it. This is this is the, you know, a new hope of the Zelda series.

Kady Roberts: 08:02

This is

David Geisler: 08:02

the the Star Wars episode 4 of the Zelda series. This is the one that everybody kind of baselines off of, and so I'm so glad you got to experience it. We'll talk about it.

Kady Roberts: 08:10

Oh, don't talk me up too much, man. I'm gonna I'm getting a little nervous now. I'll be like, what part? I mean, like, who?

David Geisler: 08:16

No. It's all good. It's all good. Yeah. Yeah.

David Geisler: 08:19

I'm in I'm I'm in my I'm a senior. Congratulations. For the first time in my life, I am a senior in college.

Kady Roberts: 08:27

That's amazing. No. That's huge. Congratulations. Thank you.

David Geisler: 08:31

I left school when I was a junior last time, 20 years ago. And, so it was kinda cool to start this semester. I'm in my my I'm in my WCRX practicum class, so it's the 400 level class. I'm not sure if you took that one or not.

Kady Roberts: 08:43

Yeah. I think

David Geisler: 08:44

you did. It's where you run the radio station.

Kady Roberts: 08:46

I did that for, the whole year because you could do it the 2nd semester too if you want. What what time are you on air?

David Geisler: 08:52

So my I'm I'm doing podcast? I'm doing the podcast track. It's myself and, another student are doing so they've kind of, like, made it a dual lane experience now. So half the class, half the lecture with the class is about running the board and putting your clock together and doing all that kind of stuff, which is the stuff you were kinda doing last year, I

Kady Roberts: 09:08

think.

David Geisler: 09:10

Then Matt Cunningham, our professor, he might have been yours as well.

Kady Roberts: 09:12

Yeah.

David Geisler: 09:13

He then also kind of, like, splits the lecture into if you're doing a podcast thing. Fortunately, I'm pretty comfortable with making podcasts, but what I do have to do is I have to make sure that every episode is exactly 29 minutes long. I have to do every 10 minutes, I have to do, like, a tag drop where I have to be like, if you're just joining us, this is WCRX. I'm David Geisler and talking blah blah blah blah blah, which you definitely don't have to do on normal podcasts.

Kady Roberts: 09:34

Absolutely.

David Geisler: 09:34

And so I so what I do is I've made a show. I've created a show called an artificial podcast. Yes. And it's it's I'm having a lot of fun with it. It's pretty weird.

David Geisler: 09:43

My cohost is AI. That's what, like, that's what the show is. And I'm not really for AI or against it in the show. I'm not really trying to Mhmm. Preach in either direction.

David Geisler: 09:53

I think there are pros and cons in both directions. You know what I mean? But I'm just kind of letting the experience be kind of an, almost an experiment, almost Yeah. Actually kind of an art project, if I'm being honest. Yeah.

David Geisler: 10:03

It's almost like an audio art piece because I'm having conversations with this this software. I've chosen a female presenting voice, so it kind of is like there's a little bit of, you know, it's easy to accidentally imagine this this this voice being an actual character. Yeah. And she is kind of becoming a character. We're 5 episodes in now.

David Geisler: 10:24

There's gonna be 15 episodes of this show. And to answer your original question, my my show airs, Saturday mornings at 10 AM on 88.1.

Kady Roberts: 10:34

I'll have to tune in.

David Geisler: 10:35

And if you miss it, I've I I put it all out in the episodes, or I put it out as podcast too. It's just a 65. It's actually a joint I got permission. It's a joint production between 65 and WCRX. So both logos are on the on the graphic.

David Geisler: 10:47

It's very cool.

Kady Roberts: 10:47

You're doing amazing things.

David Geisler: 10:49

Well, I'm I'm excited to get to the end of all of this so that I can, also just kinda get a a, you know, a proper podcasting job and continue to to bring 65 up. But, yeah, that's been really cool. So an artificial podcast, 100%, there's gonna be an ad for it in the middle of this episode. And so people can go check it out if they want. And, and that's that.

David Geisler: 11:07

Yeah. I did a couple camping trips over the basically, we took a break over the summer is is how it worked out this time, which was a little different. Usually, AZP takes a break over the winter. Mhmm. Usually, we kinda get up to the holidays and then kinda take off January February, but it's just the way the season worked out this year.

Kady Roberts: 11:22

Yeah.

David Geisler: 11:22

So here we are. It's, as we record this in a couple weeks, it's gonna be Halloween. It's October.

Kady Roberts: 11:28

Yes. Oh, do you

David Geisler: 11:29

have any Halloween costumes planned or anything? You just clap. That's why I'm asking.

Kady Roberts: 11:33

I keep going back and forth because my roommate is going to Shadow the Hedgehog. And so part of me wants to do Tails, but the other part of me wants to be Fiona from Adventure Time.

David Geisler: 11:43

So Decisions. Decisions.

Kady Roberts: 11:44

I know. I I think I'm gonna do Fiona just because I will wear all the stuff for her again. I don't wear yellow too often. So but I do like tails. I would be tails if I was in the Sonic universe.

David Geisler: 11:55

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You give tails.

Kady Roberts: 11:58

Yeah. I I appreciate that.

David Geisler: 12:00

Mhmm. I

Kady Roberts: 12:00

was me and my roommate were talking about that. We're like, you give Shadow, you give Amy, your boyfriend or your partner gives Espionage. Like, because she's been replaying through the the Xbox, Sonic, the what is what is Sonic Adventures.

David Geisler: 12:16

Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 12:16

She's been playing through that. So

David Geisler: 12:17

my other class that I'm taking this semester very quickly is social media content. And so I I'm going to school part time. I can only go to 2 classes a semester. I have 3 classes left, so hopefully I really will be done in about a certainly while we're still making this show, hopefully I'll graduate. We'll both be graduates.

David Geisler: 12:31

But, that'll probably be like a season 8 thing for AZP. But, anyway, that's been a really cool class because it's it's actually pretty hardcore. There's, like, simulations you run each week, and you practice doing TikToks and Instagrams and reels and YouTube posts and and Twitter posts or x posts or whatever and all of it. And then you run it through a simulation, and then it kinda lets you know how you performed with your verbiage and your photo placement and your hashtags.

Kady Roberts: 12:54

That.

David Geisler: 12:55

It's cool, and it's starting to inform how I literally do social media for 6:5. Mhmm. And so it's actually a class that I'm really getting a lot out of too. And and so both my classes are very satisfying this semester, I'll have to say.

Kady Roberts: 13:07

Absolutely. Now they have asked me to do social media stuff a couple times for Iheart, and I don't know when they're gonna learn. They should not ask me. I literally got assigned to do an Instagram story Yeah. A couple weeks ago.

Kady Roberts: 13:18

I had to call out my friend, and I'm like, what's an Instagram story?

David Geisler: 13:21

Wait. Seriously? Yeah. Kate, you're, like, 23. 20.

David Geisler: 13:24

You're 20?

Kady Roberts: 13:25

Yeah. I know nothing about social media, like, to be completely honest with you.

David Geisler: 13:29

Supposed to

Kady Roberts: 13:29

I know. Supposed to

David Geisler: 13:30

be the one that does.

Kady Roberts: 13:31

I know. I know it's supposed to be, like, my generation. I nothing. I got nothing.

David Geisler: 13:35

I will admit. I've I've gotten you know, I've been doing I was one of the first I was one of the first 10,000, accounts on original Twitter literally way back in the day.

Kady Roberts: 13:44

Kinda cool. Yeah.

David Geisler: 13:45

Yeah. It was nuts. It was back when it was when you would do it over your phone and you had to do it with t nine. There wasn't even a Twitter website back then. It was all texts that would go send that would send out to people, which is where the 149 character limit came from originally.

Kady Roberts: 13:56

Okay.

David Geisler: 13:56

But so I was always very pro I guess, pro or up to, like, social media and kind of interested in the new things that were coming out. And I've it just kinda happens as you get older. I'm now 43. I've kinda capped at threads x and Instagram.

Kady Roberts: 14:11

Mhmm.

David Geisler: 14:12

And I'm not quite doing YouTube shorts or Instagram stories or TikTok, you know, videos. And so I do have to kinda if I wanna kinda keep communicating and getting our shows communicating to the people who are listening, those are the things I need to, like, now skill up on.

Kady Roberts: 14:24

I was gonna say I feel like TikTok and YouTube is probably where I would know the most just because that's where I spend the most time on. Yeah. I really didn't spend time on Instagram or anything until this last year or 2.

David Geisler: 14:36

Well and we should get into our episode, but I wanna say one more thing. Have you noticed something a little bit different about the space we're sitting in today? It's okay if you don't, but you might Got

Kady Roberts: 14:46

some lights.

David Geisler: 14:47

There is we have studio lights now. Yeah. You've got some you've got some accent light on you. We have key lights where we're doing a proper 3 point lighting setup in the studio now. And I've got a little I've got more paraphernalia and fun Zelda things on the wall because the intention is we're gonna start taking some of these episodes, and we can video clip them for shorts and Instagram reels and stuff like that.

David Geisler: 15:06

So maybe you can help me with that.

Kady Roberts: 15:08

Coming to you guys soon.

David Geisler: 15:13

Okay. Cool. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 15:14

No. I'm gonna help with that. Don't worry.

David Geisler: 15:16

Alright. Let's let's I can do good. Actually start. We went down to I know. It was just fun to catch up.

David Geisler: 15:20

We're 15 minutes into this. Thank you for your your patience. Or maybe it was I think for our regularists, maybe some of that was interesting. If you're brand new, thank you for learning a little bit about us, I guess. And, Katie, I'm so excited for this season.

David Geisler: 15:31

We've got some great episodes planned. We're gonna be doing I think the neck very next episode is gonna be an echoes of wisdom I'm so excited. First impressions. I have it here in the studio. I'm gonna shake it real quick.

David Geisler: 15:41

You can see it on the camera if you're at Patreon. This is the LEGO deku Zelda kit. The Zelda Deku LEGO kit, I guess, is one other way of saying it. I haven't even opened the box yet, but that's gonna be, I think, our 4th episode of the season. Myself and Hokabricks are going to get together, and, they're gonna build the Breath of the Wild version of it, and I'm gonna build the Ocarina of Time version of it.

David Geisler: 16:01

And then we're gonna do a full episode talking about what it was like building these experiences. We also have our final I wait. That's or maybe our penultimate crossover with Studio Demands It where, myself and TC watch the Legend of Zelda cartoon.

Kady Roberts: 16:15

Oh, you're finally finishing it?

David Geisler: 16:16

We well, we okay. How about this? How about super behind the curtain? Last night, TC was here in this room, and on that TV, we watched the the final two episodes. But furthermore, his cohost, Jim, who I'd never even met in person, I've been producing their show for 3, 4 years, also came to Chicago.

David Geisler: 16:34

So the 3 of us did. We watched the we watched the cartoons and took our notes and everything, just last night, and then they're gonna come back into Chicago. They're going up to Wisconsin real quick today. They're gonna come back to Chicago tomorrow. And sitting right here, we're gonna record the 4th episode of this season, which will be Excuse Me, Princess, part 4.

Kady Roberts: 16:50

That's amazing.

David Geisler: 16:51

And it'll be Jim's it was Jim's introduction to the cartoon. He was like,

Kady Roberts: 16:54

what was this? Say I have only seen clips of it. I'll have to watch it at some point.

David Geisler: 16:58

It's been an interesting journey. And, actually, if you're interested in going back into our catalog listeners, any of the excuse me's, they're they're we only do 1 a season. And so there is a little bit of an arc, an an arc to TC and I experiencing the show. In the beginning, we're like, oh, it's terrible. And then we're kind of like it's growing on us a little now.

David Geisler: 17:17

You know, we're kind of we're still trying to stay present. But, anyway, I digress. Let's do our let's let's cough it out and do our listener feedback real quick.

Kady Roberts: 17:25

Yeah. If I'm coughing at all, I've been getting over a cough for, like, the past month, so I apologize. Gross. But yeah. Very gross.

David Geisler: 17:30

I'm choking.

Kady Roberts: 17:31

It is gross. Okay. Anyway, so, first listener feedback, I think this is on Apple Podcasts.

David Geisler: 17:40

Oh, my gosh. Nah. I don't know if that one's that's a weird crop. That might be Instagram. But let's just read it.

Kady Roberts: 17:44

Instagram? Alright. We're just gonna read it. This is wim_the_greenkeeper. And they said, hello to everyone in the crew.

Kady Roberts: 17:52

I have been listening from time to time to the podcast. The last few weeks, I've been going through all the seasons of the show. David really inspired me to try the original Zelda from the NES again. After being a Zelda fan for 30 years, I'm happy to say I finally beat it and loved every bit of it.

David Geisler: 18:09

Too cool.

Kady Roberts: 18:10

Thanks for the great podcast and the inspiration to keep enjoying every Zelda in its own way.

David Geisler: 18:16

My I've I've said it before, but I'll say it again. My favorite thing about sometimes what we get with this listener feedback is is this kind of, or or I I guess what I've realized over the years of doing this show is that, yeah, we can have Zelda fans listen, and then we might talk about Breath of the Wild or one of their favorite games. But my favorite thing is to hear when people say, like, well, it inspired me to dig in and play some of the older ones or try, like, I've never did Twilight Princess, and I gave it a go. Or we even had one, listener feedback that literally said, like, I went to a used video game store and, like, rebought a Wii or a a Wii U to play these games. So cool.

Kady Roberts: 18:47

No. I that's how I've been experiencing it being on the show.

David Geisler: 18:52

I mean, that's true.

Kady Roberts: 18:52

Yeah. It's been a whole thing of, like, I probably wouldn't have touched some of these older Zelda games. But being on it, I'm like, you know what? I need to talk about it. I'm gonna give it a shot.

Kady Roberts: 19:00

And some of them, it might take me a second, but it it's like I'll learn to appreciate it in its own way. Kind of like how they were saying through the show and kind of appreciating it. And I just got a Wii U not that long ago, with Twilight Princess and Wind Waker Oh

David Geisler: 19:16

my goodness.

Kady Roberts: 19:17

And the original Skyward Sword. Although, I did play HD already.

David Geisler: 19:20

Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 19:21

So I'm playing through Wind Waker and Majora's Mask right now, and I'm having a blast.

David Geisler: 19:25

Wind Waker HD technically on

Kady Roberts: 19:26

the Wii U. On the Wii U.

David Geisler: 19:27

And Majora's Mask 3 d

Kady Roberts: 19:29

on your 3

David Geisler: 19:30

d s. Yes. Fascinating. Interesting. Oh, I can't wait to talk about all of that.

David Geisler: 19:33

Yeah. We spoke about this a little bit last season, but if there's anyone that's just joining us this season, one of my favorite things about what's happening about co hosting the show with you, Katie, is that I think we're we're we both have equal love for Zelda, and we've ex we're experiencing it at the both ends of the spectrum of what our fans experience. You know what I mean? Like, you basically were introduced to it with Breath of the Wild, I think. Right?

Kady Roberts: 19:54

Was. Yeah. That was my first ever Zelda game.

David Geisler: 19:55

It was Breath, and then you're going back into the history.

Kady Roberts: 19:57

Yeah. I'm going back in time Yeah. To stop the first Thanksgiving. No. Do you know who that's from?

Kady Roberts: 20:04

No. There's a movie about birds going back in time to stop the first Thanksgiving, and that's what he says. He says, you heard me. We're going back in time to stop the first Thanksgiving. That That

David Geisler: 20:18

does sound familiar now. Is it it's animated. Is it stop motion animation or just

Kady Roberts: 20:22

like a No. It's just a really weird and kind of racially insensitive movie. I mean, it's so real.

David Geisler: 20:27

Oof. Oof.

Kady Roberts: 20:28

It's really funny, though.

David Geisler: 20:29

Alright. But I'm so pleased because you're you're experiencing the Zelda series, you know, almost in reverse order or someone who's almost being an archaeologist and going back into these Yeah. Games. And I have experienced it, in order organically through time.

Kady Roberts: 20:44

Mhmm.

David Geisler: 20:44

And so what's also kind of fun is, like, yeah, my first time I played Ocarina of Time of which we'll be talking about today really was, like, 25 years ago. You know what I mean? And then for you, it was it was a few months ago. Of course, we did the 3 d version, but nevertheless alright. Here we go.

David Geisler: 20:57

Here is a review, a 5 star review over on Apple Podcasts, and this was over our break. This is June 3rd. Sonic link 155 says, best Zelda pod. Hello. I am 15 years old, and I've been listening to this podcast for a while now.

David Geisler: 21:12

I love everybody on, and it's a great place to listen to everything Zelda. I was wondering if you've ever heard of a theory on the Internet about who Ocarina of Time Link married. Maybe we say this for our episode. The theory goes that Link married Malon, and they passed down Epona's song, which is why Link oh, I guess here's some here's the theory.

Kady Roberts: 21:32

Yeah. This is

David Geisler: 21:32

why Link from Twilight Princess, who is the descendant of the Ocarina of Time Link, which is most people agree that that's canonically accurate, already knows this song. Oh, the ghost the ghost Link of Time Princess. It's super interesting, and it makes a lot of sense. I love this podcast so much. And ever since I started listening to it a couple years ago, I've loved it.

David Geisler: 21:52

Sorry this is long. No worries at all, Sonic Link 155. Love that it's long. Love that you, are sharing this. It's definitely gonna give us something to talk about.

David Geisler: 21:59

I think we return to this point. Yes.

Kady Roberts: 22:00

I love the game as well. I will say, though, really quickly

David Geisler: 22:03

Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 22:04

Playing through Wind Waker, they start with talking about Ocarina of Time. Mhmm. And so I was also, like, so caught off guard when they started talking about it. I'm like, where does this fit into the lore of everything?

David Geisler: 22:15

Wind Waker was one of the first Zelda games that I mean, you know, some might argue that A Link to the Past kind of references that it is a prequel to the first two Nintendo games. But other than that, Wind Waker was the first one that had direct, you know, graphical links and story line to saying, like, this happened. And, also, it was one of the first Zelda games that blatantly acknowledged that Link is a different Link.

Kady Roberts: 22:37

Yeah.

David Geisler: 22:37

It's like 1000 of years later is when Wind Waker happens. Anyway, very cool. Yeah. The Sonic Link, I feel like that's like it reminds me of the, Sonic Adventures game on x on on Wii U that had the Link level where where Sonic literally wears Link's costume.

Kady Roberts: 22:52

Know about that. That's awesome.

David Geisler: 22:53

Oh, we talked about it in one of our before you joined the show, we did, like, a weird cameo appearances of Link episode, and that was that. And then, of course, we get 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 green heart emojis. I love it so much. Thank you so much for that. Here you go.

David Geisler: 23:07

I'm gonna hand the listening feedback to you, Katie.

Kady Roberts: 23:09

Alright. We got one last listener feedback. This one's also from Apple Podcast, and it says, love this podcast. 2 green hearts and 5 stars. We love to see it.

Kady Roberts: 23:20

And this is from cc shark 2001 and then parenthesis gardenerboyone. So it says, this is my favorite podcast of all time. I'm 12 and going into 7th grade and I'm a huge fan of the podcast. I listen all the time when I do laundry, homework, or on road trips. I'm obsessed with Zelda and Nintendo.

Kady Roberts: 23:40

My first Zelda game was Breath of the Wild. Same here. Mhmm. And I loved it. Now I am on a quest to play every Zelda game.

Kady Roberts: 23:47

I got Tears of the Kingdom on launch day. Now I want to get a 3 d s to play Ocarina of Time 3 d. Woah. But overall, I love the podcast. Keep up the good work.

Kady Roberts: 23:56

And I can't even count how many green hearts this is. I'm gonna say, like Full block. 25 green hearts. Oh

David Geisler: 24:01

my gosh. It's like two lines. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 24:02

You

David Geisler: 24:02

you picked this listener feedback today. Was it did you see that it was referencing not

Kady Roberts: 24:06

green Yes. I this one and the last one. I wanted to try and kinda keep it topical. You know?

David Geisler: 24:10

I love it. I love it. Yeah. This is gonna be fun because, in like I said, it's technically we're being very technical right now. We've technically already reviewed Ocarina of Time, but you and I will be discussing the Ocarina of Time 3 d port, not even remake.

David Geisler: 24:23

But port yeah. Maybe remake, but I think port is the correct word. And, but essentially, we're really discussing Ocarina of Time as far as the story goes. And it was your first time experiencing the story, the gameplay, the mechanics, and is the was the case with many people 20 years ago or or gosh. No.

David Geisler: 24:41

I think Ocarina of Time 3 d was 10 years ago now. I forgot its release date. I might look it up. But, the 3 d s, yeah, you know, people were introduced to it. I think it's, like, 20 years ago.

David Geisler: 24:50

It can't be true.

Kady Roberts: 24:51

Was it was it 2014, or am I making that up? Am I pulling that out of a hat?

David Geisler: 24:56

I'm pulling it out of all the hats. Are you looking up right now?

Kady Roberts: 24:58

Yeah. I am.

David Geisler: 24:59

So maybe it was just 10 years ago. It couldn't have been 20 because Ocarina of Time is, like, 25 or 30.

Kady Roberts: 25:04

Well, it couldn't be 20 because I'm 20 years old, and I have a 3 d s.

David Geisler: 25:07

There you go. So I'm sure

Kady Roberts: 25:08

2011. Oh,

David Geisler: 25:09

2,011. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So about yeah.

David Geisler: 25:11

It's about 12, 13 years ago. And a lot of people experienced Ocarina of Time for the first time on that system. And so in some ways, that'll be your experience here. For me, it was I think we're gonna jump in. For me, it was just kinda some broad thoughts up on the top here.

David Geisler: 25:25

I this was the first I I had gotten Ocarina of I when I got my 3 d s during the making of this series, I think it was, like, season 3 of AZP. I finally got a 3 d s because I knew eventually I'd wanna play, you know, Tri Force Heroes and other things. I knew a link a link between worlds I knew I wanted to play and stuff like that. And so I I finally found a 3 d s and I picked it up and I couldn't help myself, but of course I got I think Majora's Mask 3 d was already out as well. Yeah.

David Geisler: 25:51

But I got Ocarina of Time 3 d, Majora's Mask 3 d, and all of that. And so I played it up through to the forest temple a couple years ago, probably around season 3 of this show. I might have even mentioned it once or twice, but this is the first time that I really truly critically played it, like, with intent, knowing we'd talk about it, kinda going through the whole thing. And, I have some major takeaways. This this won't be a full episode of, like, how the 3 d s version is different than the main one, but there are some things here and there that I think is interesting.

Kady Roberts: 26:19

Mhmm.

David Geisler: 26:20

But I do feel that a little bit like the Link's Awakening Switch remake, even though this one's a port, if you have played Ocarina of Time 3 d, you have 100% experienced Ocarina of Time.

Kady Roberts: 26:30

Yeah. Which it was interesting because when I was about to start playing, me and you had this whole conversation about what we were gonna play it on because it came out on, what, the n 64, was it?

David Geisler: 26:40

Well, that was the original. Yep. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 26:41

That was the original. And then the 3 d s. And then also, they have a port over to the Switch. And

David Geisler: 26:46

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's in the expansion pack. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 26:48

Yeah. And so we settled on the 3 d s mainly because I was like, I really wanna play it on 3 d s.

David Geisler: 26:53

I was kinda pushing for you to play with the original polygons. Yeah. But but you were really pushing for the 3 d s. And then I realized, well, wait. That's interesting.

David Geisler: 26:59

That's part of story. Is that Yeah. That's how you wanna experience it. Then you have the right and that's what we that's what should be part of the conversation.

Kady Roberts: 27:05

Yeah. Which I am glad I did because now that I'm starting to play Majoras Mask, which I had already owned on the 3 d s, it's been really easy to hop over and play that because it's I mean, it's the same game essentially, with, like, the controls.

David Geisler: 27:19

Oh, right.

Kady Roberts: 27:19

And it when I started playing Ocarina, as with many Zelda games I start and play, I have a hard time getting into it initially Yeah. Before I find the love of it. And what you did, we were talking about it on one of the episodes. Oh. You brought up the comparison with Peter Pan in the arena.

Kady Roberts: 27:42

And after that talk, I, like, went back. And this is so nerdy of me, but I had just went and seen the Peter Pan musical with my mom.

David Geisler: 27:51

Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 27:52

I started listening to the soundtrack a little bit while I was playing the game and I found a whole new love for that game.

David Geisler: 27:59

Fascinating.

Kady Roberts: 27:59

And that is when I was like, yeah. This game is pretty cool. And so now jumping into Majora's Mask, I'm not having that, like, initial trying to get into it. I just jump straight in and I'm like, I'm loving this.

David Geisler: 28:13

And when you say trying to get in, many a Zelda game, especially the older ones, have that kind of which was part of how video games worked back then, have that kind of, like, training area ramp up thing. Yeah. Go learn to get your shield. Go learn to get your sword. Go learn how to throw a rock.

David Geisler: 28:26

That kind of stuff. And that definitely happens in Ocarina of Time. Mhmm. Do you is that what you're speaking about? Is it, like, getting into the game that way or, like, emotionally subscribing?

Kady Roberts: 28:35

Both. So So it is that little training sequence because I do feel like the earlier Zelda games, it does take a little bit longer to get into the game. And you have

David Geisler: 28:42

not played Twilight Princess yet. Right?

Kady Roberts: 28:43

I have not yet.

David Geisler: 28:44

Okay. That one's that one's

Kady Roberts: 28:45

And that's okay.

David Geisler: 28:46

A long one.

Kady Roberts: 28:46

Yeah. I was gonna say, it's okay. But especially emotionally subscribing to the game because with the older games, you know, me jumping into Breath of the Wild initially and then going to some of the older games after that, I'm like, where's the voice acting? Where's the cut scenes? What do you mean I have to read?

David Geisler: 29:03

Oh my gosh.

Kady Roberts: 29:04

And I'm not a patient person. So especially when I first tried playing Ocarina because I this is my 2nd playthrough, technically. Okay. 1st time I played through for a couple hours, and then I didn't touch it for, like, a year.

David Geisler: 29:15

So when you say play through, is it really, like, played to what point did you play to?

Kady Roberts: 29:19

Probably, like, not even past the Deku tree.

David Geisler: 29:22

Got it.

Kady Roberts: 29:23

But the it's because my issue is I'm like, I just wanna get through this. I just wanna go. And so I start spamming the a button, and I'm missing all the dialogue. And then I'm like, this has no story.

David Geisler: 29:33

Oh, yeah. You've spoken to this point.

Kady Roberts: 29:35

So it's it's a constant issue I have. So going back to Ocarina, I actually sat and I started reading the story. And I was like, this is really good. And same when we talk about echoes of wisdom, it's very similar in that. So I was like, I need to sit and read and actually pay attention Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 29:51

And like focus my brain. Because when I play video games, I don't wanna focus my brain. I don't I don't wanna have to like actually think about things And then I miss everything. So I've been act trying to focus more, which is why Majoras have been having a great time with Wind Waker, I've been having a great time with Echoes. I'm starting to get to that point where I just started to sell the game and I'm already invested.

David Geisler: 30:13

That's that's that's fascinating. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. For some context, when the original Ocarina of Time came out,

Kady Roberts: 30:21

you

David Geisler: 30:21

know, voice acting didn't really exist yet. And there's a little bit on the PlayStation, but let's just say as far as the Zelda series goes, none of that was even a thing that was even really really a vernacular in video games yet. But what was was we were going from a couple sentences, maybe you know, like, if you're lucky, 8 words in the Nintendo games. No words in the first one. Yeah.

David Geisler: 30:40

And then there were finally townsfolk that would kinda talk. You know, the the the first game technically has a scroll that you can read, and that's about it. Kinda sets it up. Then then you can talk to people in in Link's the adventure of Link, but there's just enough room for truly, like, maybe 5 words. It's like, you know, Northgate is the answer type stuff.

David Geisler: 30:58

Oh, the old man and stuff talks

Kady Roberts: 31:00

in the

David Geisler: 31:00

first game. That's right. I just thought about that. Oh my gosh. I totally

Kady Roberts: 31:02

doesn't talk too much, though.

David Geisler: 31:03

No. No. That's about what you get. You get, like, a single sense. And and and Zelda 2 was that way as well.

David Geisler: 31:08

There was a little more dialogue in the Super Nintendo game, but by the time we hit Ocarina of Time, which really was only the 4th Zelda game ever, not a really? Absolutely. It was well, no. No. No.

David Geisler: 31:18

It was the 5th because Link's Awakening is

Kady Roberts: 31:19

in there. Still. I didn't realize how early on it came.

David Geisler: 31:22

And when it came out, it was the ultimate Zelda game. It was the 5th one in the series, I'm realizing. You know what I mean? And it was like, oh my gosh. It's so amazing.

David Geisler: 31:30

Another fun fact, Super Mario 64 or Mario Kart 64 was only the 2nd Mario Kart game ever, and it's so easy to forget that. That's crazy. It was Mario Kart for Super Nintendo and then Mario Kart 64. So the whole 64 generation

Kady Roberts: 31:42

That's, like, renowned.

David Geisler: 31:45

Yeah. Well, every all the 64 games were kind of this new level of gaming at the time. And because we were in 3 d, because the fact that just the fact that the camera in Ocarina of Time could swoop in and out Yeah. I remember reading articles on websites about how the developers of Ocarina of Time, they were specifically trying to make, quote, unquote, cinematic angles because it's the first time they were really able to do that kind of stuff. And so that's all we needed.

David Geisler: 32:09

You know, we Uh-huh. That, like, felt like a cut scene. One camera just kinda swooping in for a thing or or that scene, early on in the game where, Link is on the bridge with, Saria, and she's saying goodbye to him.

Kady Roberts: 32:21

Yeah.

David Geisler: 32:22

That was like an epic cutscene by by our standards Mhmm. Emotionally at that point. So to go back and think, like, oh, I'll just I just wanna skip the words, skip the words, skip the words. I totally hear you and get it. And I guess the point I'm trying to make is just getting 5 or 6 sentences and cool camera angles felt enormous back then.

Kady Roberts: 32:40

Yeah. No. And that's what I'm saying. I think, like, through playing these games, I'm starting to gain a greater appreciation of just gaming as a whole and, like, the history of it.

David Geisler: 32:50

That makes me so happy.

Kady Roberts: 32:51

Yeah. Because it is one of those things where, like, I was consistently being, like, why am I not getting into these games? Why am I having such a hard time? And I had to sit down for a second and be, like, it's because I'm I'm not actually playing the game. Like, I'm not actually playing the game.

Kady Roberts: 33:08

I'm I'm just, like, trying to go through and do whatever. And that's that's not how it goes. And so it's like that moment where I just have to sit down and, like, actually be present in the moment and, like, play it. And then I have the best experience. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 33:24

And I think it's really been helping me a lot with like, I've gone back and started playing, like, some newer games that I've done that with, like Hades on the PC

David Geisler: 33:33

Oh, really?

Kady Roberts: 33:34

That I tried playing through, and I was like, I don't I don't like this. Like Yeah. I keep fighting and whatever. It's a fighting game. But now I'm going back and playing it.

Kady Roberts: 33:43

I'm like, the story here is really good. I just was kept skipping through all the dialogue.

David Geisler: 33:48

I see. Yeah. I see. Interesting. And I'm I'm I'm dyslexic.

David Geisler: 33:52

I'm not one that loves to read, but I do try to like in a video game. Sometimes if it's, like, 5 or 6 of these things, it's like, alright. Let's keep moving. You know? But other than that, I I do appreciate it.

David Geisler: 34:01

Well, Well, that's fascinating. So that was some of my first well, I guess we're kind of reflecting. We could start talking about the opening area, but I really appreciate you sharing how it was for you emotionally to play this time around. So you the one thing I'd like to say from my point of view playing the 3 d

Kady Roberts: 34:17

Mhmm.

David Geisler: 34:17

Port and and I say port because it's not a remake. Like, the the Link's awakening remake for Switch, they made it line up so that all the graphics were in the same spots Mhmm. You know, based on the Game Boy version. But Ocarina of Time 3 d, I understand, is running on top of original code. Oh, god.

David Geisler: 34:39

So, like, the the the Ocarina of Time code was given over to Grezzo to work with, and then they did graphic upgrades and some of the UI upgrades and stuff like that. And that's my understanding. One of the first things I noticed when I first started playing Ocarina of Time 3 d oh, hey. I gotta ask you.

Kady Roberts: 34:54

Yeah.

David Geisler: 34:54

Did you play it in 3 d? No. Do you you cut that slider down?

Kady Roberts: 34:58

I always keep the slider down when I play 3 d games. It gives me such a headache.

David Geisler: 35:02

The I as much as possible, I try to keep the slider up on all my 3 d s games because I'm kinda like, this is a unique experience. This is the only place where you can really get a 3 d game like this, you know, and have to have Navi fly around Link and have her little sparkles kinda come out of

Kady Roberts: 35:17

the screen at you. It's cool for sure.

David Geisler: 35:19

Though, I noticed that with this version compared to some of the other 3 d s games I've played in 3 d, there it it gets a little blurry sometimes. There's like you get shadow links on the side, and you're 3 links instead of 1.

Kady Roberts: 35:32

Yeah. When I first I tried at the beginning to have it on before I was getting headaches. But, yeah, it's a little blurry.

David Geisler: 35:40

I also think if I was playing it for the first time, like you were, playing it in 2 d is probably actually appropriate. In some ways, playing

Kady Roberts: 35:46

it in

David Geisler: 35:46

3 d was kinda like, oh, this is special bonus version. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 35:49

I wanted to play it kind of more true to form Yeah. Like that.

David Geisler: 35:52

Yeah. So and I also noticed if I brought the slider about halfway down, then a lot of that kind of ghosting or whatever. I don't even know what to call it. But basically, you'd get link in proper 3 d and you'd kinda your one eye would kinda still catch a little bit of link on one side,

Kady Roberts: 36:05

a little

David Geisler: 36:05

bit on the other side. And sometimes it'll be pushed a little too far. I still mostly played this in 3 d, though, just to, like, try to experience it. Because I because I played the 64 version, you know, you know, 9, 10 times through. I'm sure people played a lot more than that.

David Geisler: 36:17

And so I've had all these little shots kind of memorized, and it was kinda fun to see it in a new way. Yeah. But that's interesting.

Kady Roberts: 36:23

I will certainly say, though, that isn't an issue with Ocarina of Time being ported to the 3 d s. 3 d s is just like that.

David Geisler: 36:29

What what what?

Kady Roberts: 36:30

Like,

David Geisler: 36:31

Like how the 3 d works?

Kady Roberts: 36:32

The 3 d is kinda wonky in, like, all the games.

David Geisler: 36:34

The 3 d, do were you playing a 3 d s XL or a

Kady Roberts: 36:38

or a

David Geisler: 36:38

new 3 d s or original?

Kady Roberts: 36:39

Just an original 3 d s.

David Geisler: 36:41

Well, that might be part of it too.

Kady Roberts: 36:42

I was gonna say if it's a newer one, maybe it got fixed. But I remember even back when I was playing as a kid, I never kept the 3 d on.

David Geisler: 36:48

The first couple generations of the 3 d s, you had to be in a very specific spot for it to work.

Kady Roberts: 36:52

That's yep.

David Geisler: 36:53

In the later versions, and I ended up just by accident getting the most the oldest version or rather the most recent version. So in the line of 3 d s's, I got like a 3 d s XL Galaxy Edition. I mean, that's literally all that was being sold at the store is when I just needed to get a 3 d s. And, when the new 3 d s came out, I think, they added in software that would track your face so you can move and it stays in 3 d.

Kady Roberts: 37:15

That's really cool.

David Geisler: 37:16

Maybe I'll show it to you in between recording. I'll pull my 3 d s out and you can see it. But but still, with that said, there's still a little bit of ghosting. So you can kind of, like, hold it. And even if you move when you start aiming with the arrows with motion controls, which certainly was not in the original Yeah.

David Geisler: 37:30

Motion controls didn't even exist back then. It stays the 3 d pretty much stays accurate and stuff like that, which is kinda interesting.

Kady Roberts: 37:36

I will say I am a sucker for motion control, arrow firing.

David Geisler: 37:41

Yeah. Motion control aiming is the best use of motion controls in all video games ever in my opinion.

Kady Roberts: 37:46

I know it's so nice.

David Geisler: 37:47

Yeah. That's kind of funny because that's a that's a good example not to get too far off. But, with all the motion controls that were in Skyward Sword originally with the Wiimote, it was like, okay. Cool. You can fire your arrows.

David Geisler: 37:57

Look. You're pulling back. It's just like you're pulling back your real bow and arrow and all this stuff. Mhmm. I feel like dialing into that middle ground, which is what Breath of the Wild did, and now, of course, these well, actually, predating Breath of the Wild, I guess, Ocarina of Time 3 d maybe did first is whenever you pull the arrow out, they just they just let you wiggle the the the device around a little bit, and it helps you aim.

David Geisler: 38:17

Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 38:17

Because I had to turn the motion controls off for Skyward Sword.

David Geisler: 38:20

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's because you have to keep recalibrating.

Kady Roberts: 38:22

Yeah. I kept recalibrating. It was a little bit too much.

David Geisler: 38:24

So what they do in this game is it it recalibrates every time you go into arrow mode. Mhmm. And that's so brilliant.

Kady Roberts: 38:29

And also, if you are moving it around, you can just press the r and l button. It really centers for you.

David Geisler: 38:35

Oh, good. I didn't even know that.

Kady Roberts: 38:36

It's so nice.

David Geisler: 38:37

Yeah. Nice.

Kady Roberts: 38:37

Yeah. They did a really good job with the controls of this game. I will say that. I found it really easy to play and really easy to kinda, like, grab onto. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 38:46

And with that, I also I love the ocarina. I love it so much.

David Geisler: 38:52

And that's so fascinating because you play it in a very different way in this game Mhmm.

Kady Roberts: 38:55

Than you

David Geisler: 38:56

do in the original.

Kady Roberts: 38:56

How do you play it in the original?

David Geisler: 38:57

Well, the original is buttons, but you're doing it on I mean, I don't even know if I've got one right here. Sorry. I'm grabbing a Nintendo 64 controller. You would play it on the c buttons and the a button. Oh.

David Geisler: 39:09

And so you would be like, beep beep beep beep beep beep beep. And it was they kinda emulated

Kady Roberts: 39:14

An actual ocarina.

David Geisler: 39:15

And it pulled the buttons and this I'm holding up an actual ocarina and a 10 64 controller right now. And they kind of that's actually they they joked in the making of it that they chose an ocarina because the controller kinda felt like 1.

Kady Roberts: 39:25

Yeah.

David Geisler: 39:26

Can you see the similarities there? No. Absolutely. And so the idea that you'd be kinda pressing these little holes on an ocarina, the buttons on the Nintendo 64 controller kinda felt similar. Now, of course, on the 3 d s, and I'm okay with it, but on the 3 d s, you're doing face buttons.

David Geisler: 39:38

Experience. Yeah. Shoulder buttons. It's not quite an analog to an ocarina.

Kady Roberts: 39:42

Absolutely. I never Not broken, but I've I've yeah. I've never really looked at a m 64 controller before. So, like, seeing them side by side, I'm like, oh, yeah. That literally does

David Geisler: 39:53

look a lot like an ocarina. Your right hand in that part and your left hand in the middle. Oh. Yeah. Left hand put your left hand down in the middle.

Kady Roberts: 39:58

What? There

David Geisler: 39:59

you go. That's how you play Legend of Zelda.

Kady Roberts: 40:02

This is insane.

David Geisler: 40:03

Is this your first time holding a Nintendo 64 controller?

Kady Roberts: 40:06

Yes. I've never touched one before. I've never seen one in person before. This is crazy.

David Geisler: 40:12

My mind is blown.

Kady Roberts: 40:14

Holding it in the middle is crazy.

David Geisler: 40:17

And so they did it.

Kady Roberts: 40:17

No. That's so cool. I'll have to play that at some point.

David Geisler: 40:21

Wow. Man. Wow. I had no idea. And so so, yeah, playing the ocarina is a ton of fun.

David Geisler: 40:26

Mhmm. But the physic the physical buttons are kind of for me, it was like, why am I using shoulder buttons to do notes? I'm so used to the thing. However, the fact that you memorize the songs, you get to play the songs kinda anytime you want, I think that's probably more you're speaking to.

Kady Roberts: 40:38

Exactly. No. I I love first off, the music in Ocarina is, like, next level. It's so good and it's so beautiful. And so then getting to play and one of my favorite parts is when Chic teaches you new songs, you play together.

David Geisler: 40:51

Yes.

Kady Roberts: 40:52

Oh, it's so good. And then they always do, like, the little cut scene around you as you're playing and, like, the environment you're in.

David Geisler: 40:59

Yeah. Oftentimes, the camera's circling around the 2 of you. They get really creative in some of the later ones where they're doing, like, you know, just fades, pan fades of, like, the faces and stuff, again, with that cinematic camerawork.

Kady Roberts: 41:09

We'll absolutely say the, the Goran region 1, that one sticks in my head the most probably. That one? Well, not the music, but the not yeah. I was gonna say not the music of it weird. But the cinematicness of it.

David Geisler: 41:24

Oh, I was thinking of just the normal Goran music. You're talking about the chic Yes. Chic like volcano.

Kady Roberts: 41:30

Yeah. Love it. With the volcano and showing, like, the lava behind you.

David Geisler: 41:33

100%.

Kady Roberts: 41:34

It's so good.

David Geisler: 41:35

Yeah. That was a cool one.

Kady Roberts: 41:35

But yeah. I see what you're saying. It's so good. Also, didn't realize Skull Kids were, like, actual things. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 41:42

I like because I only knew Majora's Mask with the Skull Kid.

David Geisler: 41:46

Right.

Kady Roberts: 41:46

So when I ran into 1 in the forest, I was like

David Geisler: 41:51

Were you, like Hello? Is this the Majora's Mask without a Majora's Mask?

Kady Roberts: 41:54

Yeah. I was like, is this Majora's Mask little kid? And then you run into more. And I'm like, oh, there's just, like, a group of these guys.

David Geisler: 42:00

Yeah. Yeah. Skull kids come back around in a few other games. And the craziest thing about Majora's Mask is that it is just a skull kid that finds the mask.

Kady Roberts: 42:07

That's what's crazy because I thought it was, like

David Geisler: 42:10

The whole look?

Kady Roberts: 42:11

Yeah. Like, the whole look I thought was him. Right?

David Geisler: 42:13

The whole look of Majora's Mask, that's actually just a skull kid.

Kady Roberts: 42:16

Well, yeah.

David Geisler: 42:16

And Majora's the mask is the enemy.

Kady Roberts: 42:18

That's what I was saying. Like, I I thought, like, the costume and everything was, like, a part of it. But, like, that's just how he looks. So that was, like, a really cool moment too.

David Geisler: 42:29

Let's continue with a few other big big takeaways, then we'll go to break, and then we'll just kinda maybe walk through the dungeons and some of the characters and stuff. Okay? Let's see. Some other things. One thing that was different is the the 3 d s has fewer face buttons than in a Nintendo 64 controller.

David Geisler: 42:46

So in the original, see all these yellow c buttons here? Mhmm. You would map your items to those. And so you'd kind of have your sword and your action or whatever, and then you would go into your menu and and throw all your items onto these yellow buttons here on the side. Oh, that's

Kady Roberts: 43:00

kinda nice, though. I liked it. It it's really

David Geisler: 43:01

visually, it makes a lot of sense on the controller. Like, they it was really well thought out. On the 3 d s, you've got your normal kind of x y z a b thing, so they could only put 2 they could only use 2 instead of the 4. So they ended up making that number that roman numeral 1 and roman numeral 2 slot on the secondary lower screen That's

Kady Roberts: 43:18

why they didn't

David Geisler: 43:18

have it. Could put items there so that it could so that it could have the same amount of items. And, technically, you get one extra one on the 3 d s to put items there. How did you feel about needing to use the screen to, like, touch some of those buttons?

Kady Roberts: 43:30

I would forget sometimes. Yeah. But it wasn't a bad thing at all because I normally, when I was going about things, I really only needed 1 or 2 items at any given point in time. Yeah. So just mapping them and then just keeping, like, my fairy bottle on, like, a 1 or 2.

Kady Roberts: 43:44

Yeah.

David Geisler: 43:44

Yeah. Well, I'll throw the ocarina there

Kady Roberts: 43:45

or something. Something that I don't use as often and then making, like, my Daegu nuts or, like, my hook shot or whatever made it a lot easier.

David Geisler: 43:53

Absolutely.

Kady Roberts: 43:54

Yeah. I felt like it make it made a lot of sense gameplay wise, how they set it up.

David Geisler: 43:58

The menu that's on the screen below is usually just in the pause menu, at least on the 64 version.

Kady Roberts: 44:02

Okay.

David Geisler: 44:03

How did you, in general, feel about the not not trying to compare it to the 64 version. How did you feel just about the relationship with the 2 screens and playing the game? And and did you you had an analog stick on your 3 d

Kady Roberts: 44:14

s. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Kady Roberts: 44:15

Like a little c stick.

David Geisler: 44:15

I think all the 3 d s's did. Yeah. Well, you might have the you might have the little c stick nub, but you definitely had the left analog slider, I think. Right? Yeah.

David Geisler: 44:24

This guy right here? Yeah. On the front of this? Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 44:27

Yeah. One of those things.

David Geisler: 44:28

Oh, here's my 3 yes. Yeah. Keep going.

Kady Roberts: 44:30

Oh, yeah. But the relationship between the two screens, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 44:35

This this is exactly how mine looks. It's just mine is a lot smaller because you have the XL version. Do you

David Geisler: 44:39

have that little gray nub there on the front of the right?

Kady Roberts: 44:41

This. No. I don't have that.

David Geisler: 44:43

So that's that's basically a right analog stick. And on Majora's Mask, it actually moves the camera. It's really weird. But I don't wanna get too far into visuals because it's an audio show.

Kady Roberts: 44:50

Actually turned on, but it's Oh,

David Geisler: 44:51

no. It's nice.

Kady Roberts: 44:52

So pretty. Mine is not as pretty as that. I need

David Geisler: 44:55

to get

Kady Roberts: 44:55

a newer one. But yeah. No. The anyway. God.

Kady Roberts: 44:58

I'm rambling.

David Geisler: 44:59

No. No. No. I'm I'm taking off because I'm, like, pulling all this stuff out.

Kady Roberts: 45:03

The relationship between the two screens. I really enjoyed it. I think that it was very smooth, very easy to operate. And a lot of times this is, like, kind of off topic, but my brain is running at, like, 5 miles an hour right now. Very slow.

Kady Roberts: 45:23

So in the game, when you save, when you close out, you always start back at your house or back at your house. Or the

David Geisler: 45:31

beginning of the dungeon. I'd like to talk about this. Keep going.

Kady Roberts: 45:34

So my solution to this, and what I spread to my roommate Sierra as well, because she also me and her have started to play the games at the same time as each other.

David Geisler: 45:42

Oh, we're using the same system?

Kady Roberts: 45:45

Yeah. Okay. I told her what I did. And so we both did this. We would just hit the home or the start button to pause Yep.

Kady Roberts: 45:52

Close it and plug it in.

David Geisler: 45:53

And it would technically use a little bit of power, but it's, like, in a sleep state. You're absolutely right.

Kady Roberts: 45:57

And then I would just open it back up and keep playing. I don't think after, like, the first two or three times, I don't think I ever turned that thing off until I finished the game.

David Geisler: 46:05

So I when I played the original Ocarina of Time, the all you could every time you paused, if you get went out, you would push b button. It would say, like, would you like to save? And you just kinda push yes. And so every time you put that cartridge back into the system and you were gonna play the next day, yeah, you'd start at the house or you'd start at the top of a dungeon. I had an experience in the fire dungeon.

David Geisler: 46:21

It took me, like, a month to do the fire dungeon this time around partly because I only had maybe I'd have, like, 15 minutes a night to really Oh, this

Kady Roberts: 46:30

sucks. Play.

David Geisler: 46:30

I was never able to really do a dungeon all the way through. I did the water dungeon all the way through just because I gave myself an evening. Mhmm. The water dungeon's a lot easier on the 3 d s one. We'll talk about it.

Kady Roberts: 46:38

Really? I got a lot to say about that water dungeon.

David Geisler: 46:40

Okay. Alright. They did they made some graphical cues, and they made some changes to the UI to make it easier. But I ended up playing the volcano, the the fire dungeon. I think I probably every because I didn't what I didn't do is do the sleep Yeah.

David Geisler: 46:56

Thing that you're talking about, the sleep hack. Right? Yeah. I would save my game, quit out, and then every time I'd start in the big top of the dungeon, it had been half a week or something. I'd be like, wait.

David Geisler: 47:03

What was I doing? Where was I going? Oh, and I kinda forgot about keys. And so I'd meander around for 10 minutes, find another Goran to free or something like that, and then kind of I'd have to, like, move on to the next thing I had to do that night. And so I'd save and go out.

David Geisler: 47:15

And so many times I, like, I entered the fire dungeon, I think, 20 times.

Kady Roberts: 47:19

No. I could not. I'm not I we've talked about this. I'm not a patient person. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 47:23

Literally, after that first time when I just respond in, Link's house, had to go back to castle town, I'm like, I'm not doing this.

David Geisler: 47:30

You spend you spend 5 or 10 minutes just getting back to where you were.

Kady Roberts: 47:33

Yeah.

David Geisler: 47:33

And I'm not sure why that was a thing in gaming that was acceptable. Back then, I mean, we definitely didn't have save state. It wasn't like I mean, that that technology existed, but there really wasn't part of video games back then. And I guess it was better than I mean, we were kind of I mean, there was you could save in Super Nintendo games, but a lot of video games for 5 years before that, you know, if you if you died or you're done, you just like, if you're playing Super Mario Brothers 3 start over. You just start from the beginning no matter what.

David Geisler: 47:58

And so I feel like having them start there's probably some kind of latent accidental game design psychology of like, wow. We'll have them start from that start spot. And I'm sure that that's where that came from. But boy, oh, boy, did it hit me hard, this playthrough. And I was like, can't I you know, Breath of the Wild, now Echo's Wisdom, you just save wherever you are.

David Geisler: 48:16

Link's really standing in the exact same spot. The weather's the same, all that stuff. I've I'm so grateful for that kind of save those kind of save mechanics by today's standards.

Kady Roberts: 48:23

Yeah. I will say I think it is the forest dungeon that starts with the 2 wolves outside.

David Geisler: 48:30

Yep.

Kady Roberts: 48:31

So that was the first dungeon. So I did die a few times. And the rage I felt when I realized that I would be put back outside every single time was insane. I was like, what is happening? Is this how it's supposed to work?

David Geisler: 48:48

And it's I think they wanted to kinda heighten What's like, when you die, you die.

Kady Roberts: 48:52

Well, yeah. No. And that's the thing. I'm like, oh, okay. No.

Kady Roberts: 48:55

I like, looking back on it now, I'm like, oh, yeah. Absolutely. Like, it raises the stakes. But at the time, I was still used to, like, oh, like, deaths don't really matter. It's just, like, oh, game over.

Kady Roberts: 49:06

It's okay. Whereas back then, it was, like, no. Like, you're done. Like, you gotta start over.

David Geisler: 49:13

And if you're playing, Adventure of Link, if you're playing the Nintendo games, when you get game over, you are you are done done.

Kady Roberts: 49:20

Like, you have to crazy to hear. For Link

David Geisler: 49:22

the adventure of Link, unless you're getting real clever, you act actually start the game over after a game over.

Kady Roberts: 49:29

Yeah.

David Geisler: 49:30

You start from ground 0. That's why that one's so tough.

Kady Roberts: 49:33

Oh, I know I'm gonna have to play it at some point, but I'm gonna

David Geisler: 49:35

have to play it. I've ever been able to really truly, like, play it is with save states, I have to admit. You know what I mean? Okay.

Kady Roberts: 49:41

Where you're

David Geisler: 49:41

like, you go to town, you hard up, and you save state save, and you you know what I mean?

Kady Roberts: 49:45

But Yeah. That's what I'm gonna have to do. I'm doing that same with Majora's Mask. If I don't have, like, a save near me Yeah.

David Geisler: 49:50

Just Well, now in Majora's Mask, they actually added a bunch of extra save points in the levels

Kady Roberts: 49:55

nice.

David Geisler: 49:55

Because I think they were starting to realize, oh, it's a mo people are playing this mobile and stuff. And we'll save that for our Majora's Mask 3 d conversation when that inevitably happens. But, let's see. To pull it back to Ocarina, let's see. Yeah.

David Geisler: 50:05

The save state thing. The I it really I I come you know, I was kinda like the first couple times, like, oh, yeah. That's cool. I started at the beginning of the dungeon, and then it really took me about 2 or 3 weeks where I really noticed. I was like, why is this taking me forever to get to the fire dungeon?

David Geisler: 50:18

And I realized that it was taking me 5 minutes just to get to the place where I left off. Mhmm. Now there is that Ferroars, the green magic that you can get that technically you can save and and warp in, but I just didn't have it at the time. I didn't I didn't find I used to get it a lot sooner. I wasn't paying attention.

David Geisler: 50:31

But if you don't have that Yeah. So that one that kinda hurt, but I'm kind of glad they they kept it in. The graphics are all redone.

Kady Roberts: 50:41

Yeah. They look great.

David Geisler: 50:42

Yeah. The the model they're new models. The models look pretty nice. Way higher polygon count. And the other thing I noticed that, in the original Ocarina of Time, there's a lot of things in the distance that are probably just like a single image, like a JPEG or something.

David Geisler: 50:56

There's like a town. Kakariko Village from Death Mountain is definitely just a flat polygon. That's a drawing.

Kady Roberts: 51:01

Yeah.

David Geisler: 51:02

There's a couple times, like, in Castle Town, when you're running around Castle Town, all of that is just almost like Final Fantasy 7, just a JPEG

Kady Roberts: 51:08

Yeah.

David Geisler: 51:08

With with with characters in front of it. For this game, it was very clear that they actually modeled all that stuff. Yeah. Because when you flip that 3 d slider up, it's properly in 3 d, and that's why they did it. That was very cool.

Kady Roberts: 51:19

I was gonna say, castle town was so fun. I loved how much was going on there. It looked great. Another gameplay thing that I really enjoyed that new games haven't even been doing anymore is with Epona being able, wherever you're at, to call her, pick her up, and go. Well, I guess not, like, wherever you're at.

Kady Roberts: 51:39

Anywhere within, like, that main area.

David Geisler: 51:42

Okay.

Kady Roberts: 51:43

Whereas even with some of the newer games, it's like, oh, your horse is too far. Or

David Geisler: 51:47

Oh, like the breaths and the tears?

Kady Roberts: 51:49

Breaths and tears and also later in Echoes. It's like, I like being able just to call my little horsey and quickly run wherever I like.

David Geisler: 51:57

And it's so fascinating because then in Twilight Princess, again, one of one of my favorite Zelda games, you you can only call upon a at contextual points.

Kady Roberts: 52:04

Yeah.

David Geisler: 52:04

Yeah. So it's, like, even almost worse in that way. Calling opponent anytime you need, I think, is wonderful. You're absolutely right. Just kind of the horseback riding in the first place was kind of a newer thing in video games.

Kady Roberts: 52:16

It did very well with it,

David Geisler: 52:17

though. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 52:17

Especially going that extra mile, and doing the archery game with the Gerudo.

David Geisler: 52:21

I agree.

Kady Roberts: 52:22

Like, especially if horseback back riding was newer.

David Geisler: 52:25

Shadow of the Colossus would came out around the same time, maybe within a year or 2, maybe a few years after, but they will also kinda had pretty good horse riding. But there wasn't just the fact that you could even get oh, did you know that Epona wasn't originally planned to be in the game, and it was really Miyamoto who really pushed for it?

Kady Roberts: 52:38

Oh, she knows what she was doing. That's why he's so big over there.

David Geisler: 52:44

And I think they, you know so how did you feel about, you know, the time jump? Young link, old link, stuff like that?

Kady Roberts: 52:49

Oh, I love it. And I love the devastating lore behind it.

David Geisler: 52:53

Yeah. Cool.

Kady Roberts: 52:54

The end of the game sorry. I'm like jumping all the way to the end. It's fine. Where you get sent back in time again. And I'm like, but then all these people that I just met and they don't know me.

Kady Roberts: 53:06

And I know it ends with, like, a little cut scene of Link going back to Zelda. But I'm like, how is that conversation even gonna start?

David Geisler: 53:13

I agree.

Kady Roberts: 53:14

So it's like, it's almost devastating in a way. And then you start and again, not going into Majoras, but you start Majoras just like doing your own thing. And it's, like, that's kinda sad.

David Geisler: 53:24

Well, yeah. Majora is a direct sequel to Ocarina, and it's from the child timeline. And it's Link trying to find Navi who who leaves at the end of Ocarina. Yeah. So I think in Majora, they keep it simple.

David Geisler: 53:34

They just say, like, Link's looking for a friend, but it's been just it's been discussed that that's Navi that he's trying to find. Wow. Can does the end of the game help you understand the split timeline theory a little bit more?

Kady Roberts: 53:46

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. No. Especially after finishing Ocarina, I'm, like, and now starting to play Majoras and Wind Waker and all these different games that kind of connect in different ways. Mhmm.

Kady Roberts: 53:55

I, like, I need to get that little book that has, like, all the different timeline theories and just, like, go through them all and figure it out. Yeah. I love it.

David Geisler: 54:04

Cool. Okay. Great. I think what we'll do is we've been talking for a long time. This is a super long episode.

David Geisler: 54:07

I'm totally into it, though. The we're already, like, 50 minutes into this episode. But we did burn, like, 20 just catching up. I'll be honest with you. Any any other final takeaways?

David Geisler: 54:17

I actually took a few more notes about some of my inter my observations, but, I don't know if I didn't save them or something. They're not they're not in the notes where I put them earlier. So I'm just kinda going off the top of my head here with some things. But were there any other major takeaways with playing the game? Maybe, any other major takeaways playing it as someone who's playing the games, not in reverse order, but, you know, going back into the old ones?

Kady Roberts: 54:38

Yeah. Kind of in reverse order. I mean, a lot of it's like I said before, it takes me a second because I'm like, this looks and feels so different. Because it's not that the games are not saying the past games were bad, but it's not that they're progressively getting, like, better graphics, better controls. It's like I'm going in reverse.

Kady Roberts: 54:58

And so I'm like sometimes it's a little frustrating because I'm like, why is this not doing exactly what I want it to do? Why is this glitching? Why is this whatever? Yeah. And that's fine.

Kady Roberts: 55:07

And it's part of the charm. And it's what I've come to love about the games. And that's what I was saying, like, actually sitting down and, like, playing the game and appreciating the game. Yeah. But it is one of those things where I have to completely relearn how to play a Zelda game every time I play one of the new ones.

David Geisler: 55:22

Yeah. I agree. And actually, that was one of my difficulties for, like, the Super Nintendo game is sometimes you have to learn or even playing the original, like, you can't even walk on an angle. You just have to learn, like, okay. This is what I can do in this game, and it's okay.

David Geisler: 55:33

Don't let it get frustrating. One example of that in Ocarina of Time, in my opinion, is arguably no camera controls.

Kady Roberts: 55:40

Yes.

David Geisler: 55:40

How'd you do with that?

Kady Roberts: 55:42

That was difficult. It was difficult to get used to because especially, the camera can be a little bit wonky sometimes because I do wanna do those cinematic, like, sweeps and stuff. Yeah. So sometimes it'll get stuck on a wall or, like, it won't be exactly where I want it, and I have to, like, leave the area and, like, recircle so, like, the camera can reset Mhmm. And, like, come back.

Kady Roberts: 56:00

And it was one of those things that, like, it just it takes some getting used to.

David Geisler: 56:04

The part of the decision behind that because, Ocarina of Time was being developed at the same time as Super Mario 64.

Kady Roberts: 56:10

Mhmm.

David Geisler: 56:10

And I did a whole Zelda 64 episode a couple seasons ago about the making of Ocarina of Time, but there was a lot of because this in Super Mario 64, these yellow c buttons here controlled the camera a bit like what a c stick would now. So you'd move the camera right, left, up, down, and all the rest. That's why it was kinda jokingly called the c buttons because it was kinda like, oh, it's the camera buttons for most games.

Kady Roberts: 56:28

That is the c button?

David Geisler: 56:29

These are the c buttons here. These are the ones.

Kady Roberts: 56:31

Be so real. I always thought the little, circle guy on the 3 d s was what the c button was.

David Geisler: 56:36

I don't know what you're talking about. But see how this is c up? So it was really weird in instruction manual. It's c up, c down, c left, and c right is what those buttons are called.

Kady Roberts: 56:43

Yeah. Oh, so the 3 d s right here. Sorry, people. Tune in on the Patreon.

David Geisler: 56:47

Oh, boy. Oh, boy.

Kady Roberts: 56:48

I thought this was the c button.

David Geisler: 56:50

Well, that would be the left control, the left analog stick.

Kady Roberts: 56:52

Yeah. I just I just thought that's what they called it on, like, the older console, so it would be so real.

David Geisler: 56:56

Really? Yeah. Sure. Sure. Well, so what happened was with Super Mario 64, they used this the yellow c buttons to move the camera,

Kady Roberts: 57:03

but they

David Geisler: 57:03

wanted to use them for the item selection in Zelda. And in some ways, it was really cool because remember, this did come out after Link's Awakening. And and I know that you've only played the Switch version, but the original Link's Awakening, which maybe will have you play at least a dungeon or 2 someday.

Kady Roberts: 57:16

Yeah. Is it like a side scroller where you go to the next room?

David Geisler: 57:19

Not a side scroller. It's it's it's it's a top down, but the but the your items are only on a and b. So whenever you wanna switch items, you gotta

Kady Roberts: 57:27

go into

David Geisler: 57:27

pause menu and reassign them. So that's what we we as players were used to doing back in, like, 1993. It's like, well, you just take your items and you assign them to the buttons. And actually, at the time, that was kind of a novel idea, even the very first Zelda, where it was like, wait. B isn't always just the one thing?

David Geisler: 57:41

Like Yeah. Because before that, it would be you know, if you think about computer games, it was like you had, you know, your all the keys on a keyboard. You have your e button for, you know, the b button for bomb, the d button for dagger or whatever. Yeah. And then when when the when the console game started happening, we only had the buttons.

David Geisler: 57:55

The idea that you could assign items and tasks to the buttons in a Zelda game was kinda novel at the time. So by having them use pretty much at least well, they used the bottom 3 c buttons here, and the top one was to go into 1st person view

Kady Roberts: 58:08

Oh, yes.

David Geisler: 58:08

On 64. So they with the camera, they're like, well, we can't use the c buttons for camera. And I think it was Miyamoto, but I don't know. The team just decided, well, honestly, with a game like this, an adventure game where you're playing as Link and it's, you know, Mario game, you do need to be zoomed out and a little bit more aware of your spatial because you're you're making these jumps and stuff like that. They realized that with the Zelda game, it wasn't really a platformer.

David Geisler: 58:28

And so if if if you if you controlled the camera by essentially lining Link up and then tapping that z button

Kady Roberts: 58:34

to

David Geisler: 58:34

bring the camera behind, they decided that was good enough. And then what you would do is if you really needed to look around, you'd push c up and go into his head and then oh, bump in my mic. It goes crazy. And then you could kinda get a lay of the land and then come back out and be behind link.

Kady Roberts: 58:47

Okay.

David Geisler: 58:47

So that was a choice. Also, a choice was the this is one of the first times that there was an auto jump

Kady Roberts: 58:53

Yes. Where

David Geisler: 58:54

you just you just jump when you hit the edge of a thing.

Kady Roberts: 58:56

And that stuck around for most of the Zelda games going forward.

David Geisler: 58:59

Stuck around around all the way through Skyward Sword.

Kady Roberts: 59:02

Yeah. Because I remember when I moved to Skyward because I think that was the first Zelda game I really played that was a bit older after Yep. The Breath in Tears series.

David Geisler: 59:11

It was.

Kady Roberts: 59:12

That took me a while to get used to.

David Geisler: 59:15

That you couldn't just jump on things

Kady Roberts: 59:16

and climb them? Jump, and I would just, like, be like, oh, I can make that. And then I would, like, run, and he wouldn't jump because you're not supposed to jump there, and you just fall off the edge. I'm like, oh.

David Geisler: 59:25

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I do remember the first time going around even just the Kokiri forest Mhmm. And just hopping along the little, like, I guess, logs or or or stones over the water.

Kady Roberts: 59:37

If you, like, jump across.

David Geisler: 59:38

Absolutely. That was awesome. That was so cool. It was like, oh, I don't even have of course, this isn't a platformer. You don't have to worry about jumping.

David Geisler: 59:44

This is an adventure game. Yes. That the point is the adventure. The point is the puzzles. The point is this journey, not like, can I exactly make that jump?

David Geisler: 59:51

Which interestingly enough, I think the next time yeah. Well, the next time we had an assigned button was x on Breath of the Wild, but it took me a little getting used to, we'll talk about this in our next episode, having a jump button in Echoes of Wisdom. Like, a proper jump button was kinda, like, weird at first for me.

Kady Roberts: 01:00:06

Yeah. Because did Link Link's Awakening, you couldn't jump? Or, no, you could, but you had to get the the pegasus boots.

David Geisler: 01:00:12

Yep. Once or no. It means the feather pegasus boots, I think, helped you run.

Kady Roberts: 01:00:15

To run.

David Geisler: 01:00:16

But But once you get the feather that helps you jump, you could assign it and jump then. And you get it pretty early on. You get it in the 1st dungeon. So you could jump in Link's Awakening, but it was an item that you assigned.

Kady Roberts: 01:00:25

Yeah. Which that was going back and talking about how Ocarina has the little buttons you can self assign. That was like renowned to me playing Link's Awakening 2 going back because that still is like a thing where you don't really see that much. So going back and being like, I have to assign a button to jump. I have to assign a button to run.

Kady Roberts: 01:00:44

Like, that was kind of it was it was cool to me kind of seeing, like, okay. I'm using all these different, like, little items.

David Geisler: 01:00:51

Yeah. Also, there was a lot of talk. We'll go to break here now after I say mention this one. I think this is the last thing I had in my notes. I'm kinda, like I said, doing this off the top of my head.

David Geisler: 01:00:58

The last thing that was kind of novel and groundbreaking in Ocarina of Time, which was also then further expressed here in the 3 d remake, was, a contextually sensitive b button. So the idea that you if you you know, the b button would change it would say attack or or climb or open. That kind of thing was really novel when Ocarina of Time came out. The idea that that not only are you taking the c buttons and assigning whatever you want to them, but that your okay. Your a button was always stored, but that your b button would change for the context of what you were in.

David Geisler: 01:01:30

Mhmm. I remember reading entire articles in video game magazines about this. They were like, the b button's gonna change. It's gonna be crazy. Like, how are people gonna handle this?

Kady Roberts: 01:01:40

That's really cool.

David Geisler: 01:01:41

Yeah. Now contextually sensitive or contextually sensitive UI is like a normal thing in video games.

Kady Roberts: 01:01:45

Yeah. But that's awesome. It's like one of those things. It's so great having these conversations with you because it's these things that I don't get this context ever. And to me, it's like this is forever ago.

Kady Roberts: 01:01:59

But it was this came out not that long ago. It wasn't even I

David Geisler: 01:02:03

think it was 99. I might not have that fully memorized. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:02:06

Yeah. But like 20

David Geisler: 01:02:07

years of time.

Kady Roberts: 01:02:07

All things considered, it's not that long ago. But for me, I'm like that was like like, I don't know any of it. Because I really started with I mean, my my cousin lent us his or gave us his Game Boy color, but I didn't really mess around on that at all. So really, my first console was the 3 d s and the Xbox. Wow.

Kady Roberts: 01:02:27

So I like, it's it's very cool getting to, like, hear how crazy these things were.

David Geisler: 01:02:34

Cool. Well, if you don't mind, let's go to break Yeah. And we'll come back, and we'll I think we should just I I we could talk about this all day long. It's cool. This is a longer episode.

David Geisler: 01:02:43

It's our 1st episode back into season 7. It's an Ocarina of Time episode. There's a lot to talk about when you talk about Ocarina of Time. But I think when we come back, we'll talk about some of our characters real quick. Mhmm.

David Geisler: 01:02:52

And then, kinda just push through the 6 main dungeon experiences and maybe some talk about the bosses a little bit and just kinda what the just kinda what the the experience of playing the game was like. Does that sound good?

Kady Roberts: 01:03:01

Yeah. Absolutely.

David Geisler: 01:03:01

Marvelous. Okay. I'll see you, you know, in a minute or 2. Yeah. After I'll see you after our audience hears about, unless it's a dynamic ad that's already changed, hopefully, an artificial podcast.

Kady Roberts: 01:03:11

Hopefully artificial podcast.

David Geisler: 01:03:12

Oh my goodness. Alright, Katie. We are back. And, yeah, I caught you just as you're taking a sip of your tea there. I'm so sorry about that.

David Geisler: 01:04:39

How you doing? There it is.

Kady Roberts: 01:04:41

I'm doing great. Thanks.

David Geisler: 01:04:43

We let's just get right in.

Kady Roberts: 01:04:44

Yes.

David Geisler: 01:04:44

Well, let's do some characters first. How do how do you feel about Link in this game?

Kady Roberts: 01:04:48

Link is fun in this game. Okay. He is definitely one of the Links though that doesn't have too much character. He's very much a blank slate so you can kinda project onto him. Oh, thank you.

Kady Roberts: 01:04:59

A little model for me to hold.

David Geisler: 01:05:01

There's the Nintendo World Link right there.

Kady Roberts: 01:05:03

Cute. I love his design though. The white is really cute. I will say little Link should probably put some pants on. He's running around a little free spirited.

Kady Roberts: 01:05:15

But, you know, if you're a child forever, that's what kid wants to wear pants, really?

David Geisler: 01:05:19

The first time he climbed into a tunnel, I was like, where are we going?

Kady Roberts: 01:05:22

Yeah. I was like, where's that camera going? Yeah. But no. He's cute.

Kady Roberts: 01:05:28

It is definitely more of a thing of the other characters. You learn about more the relationship other characters have with him, which I can't complain.

David Geisler: 01:05:38

Young Link was decided halfway through the the design process. Originally, they were just building an older Link.

Kady Roberts: 01:05:43

Really? Mhmm.

David Geisler: 01:05:45

And, I I spoke about it in my Zelda 64 episode, but I think there was a notion that, like, if the game started with young Link, some kids would be more inclined to play it and stuff like that. And then you kinda grow with him in the as the game gets more difficult, it makes sense. You know, that kinda thing.

Kady Roberts: 01:05:58

Yeah. I will say too with, I think this kinda did start that young Link pattern in the Zelda games.

David Geisler: 01:06:07

Of Link being, like, basically a child?

Kady Roberts: 01:06:08

Yeah. Because then after Ocarina, you start having, like, Wind Waker and those kinda games that where he is very obviously a kid. Mhmm. And I think it's because people really took to the young link because it's it's fun playing as a kid and it's fun especially I keep bringing up Majora's Mask. I'm so sorry.

Kady Roberts: 01:06:26

It's fun especially when you go to Majora's Mask and you, like, run to leave and the guard stops you being like, I can't let a kid out. And then he's like, oh, wait. You have a sword. I'm so I'm sorry my my good sir. Like, he must obviously be a man.

Kady Roberts: 01:06:38

And I'm, like, standing there at 4 foot 8. Yeah. So cute.

David Geisler: 01:06:43

And those soldiers are mechanically kind of the Maido of Majora's Mask. How Maido won't let you go to the Deku Tree until you get sword and your shield. You know? It's like how they that's how they help you kind of learn things. Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:06:53

Link was originally in Ocarina of Time. They were they were considering having it they were considering that it would actually be a first person game.

Kady Roberts: 01:07:02

And you would

David Geisler: 01:07:03

play from Link's point of view. And, like, there was a lot of tech demos of just, like, you just walk around.

Kady Roberts: 01:07:06

But That would be interesting to see.

David Geisler: 01:07:08

And the idea was, again, with Super Mario 64, it was all about third person going from area to area. They wanted, like, they wanted the Legend of Zelda feel more like an adventure game. And, again, they wanted to make that connection with Link be more Link not talking. Like, you are you

Kady Roberts: 01:07:22

You are Link.

David Geisler: 01:07:23

You play as Mario, but you are Link is kinda was the idea. You know what I mean? And, they ultimately put so much work into the model though that the the guys who worked on the actual model, they

Kady Roberts: 01:07:32

were like,

David Geisler: 01:07:33

please. No. And we gotta put the camera behind. And they ended up going, yeah. Let's put it behind.

David Geisler: 01:07:36

And because they also realized you can identify with the character a little bit more, blah blah blah blah.

Kady Roberts: 01:07:39

Well, yeah. No. I think the model like, that was a good take. I think the that's one of the most exciting things for me for playing new Zelda games is seeing what Link looks like in this game specifically.

David Geisler: 01:07:49

Cool.

Kady Roberts: 01:07:49

I think it's so fun. Saria Yes. Love her. I know. I love her so much.

Kady Roberts: 01:07:55

And I like her, like, almost sibling y kind of relationship with Link. But I know some people lean more into the romantic side.

David Geisler: 01:08:03

It felt romantic to me. But Yeah. But, yeah, the sibling thing's cool too. I like that take.

Kady Roberts: 01:08:07

Yeah. I think it's mainly because I've seen in a lot of Zelda games with Link having a little sister. I guess not a lot of Zelda games, but a decent amount.

David Geisler: 01:08:16

Well, Wind Waker, he has a little sister. Is there any others?

Kady Roberts: 01:08:19

Is there more? I could've swore there was more where he had a sister, but maybe it is just Wind Waker. But in my brain, I think it maybe it might even be I just heard that in Wind Waker and I assumed there were games I haven't played yet where he had a sister.

David Geisler: 01:08:31

But No worries. No worries.

Kady Roberts: 01:08:33

Because it is also a common thing that people do me reading my Breath of the Wild fan fictions, but a lot of them give they gave him a little sister back in the day and, like, that kind of stuff. Wow. So I think it's something people really took to. So for me also having an older brother, I normally project that onto things I play.

David Geisler: 01:08:49

Oh, yeah. Interesting.

Kady Roberts: 01:08:51

I really enjoyed her. And it was one of those things too when he ages up and he goes back, and it's like you're you're not supposed to be here anymore. Like, you're you're gone, man. You're an outcast now.

David Geisler: 01:09:04

And there wasn't there wasn't anything specifically, I guess, romantic about their relationship. But there was a it felt like there was like a an adjacent love or an adjacent kind of maybe there was that sibling thing kinda comes in there. Like, I never felt like pardon me, but, like, he wanted to kiss her or anything like that. Yeah. No.

David Geisler: 01:09:21

It just felt like an admiration for each other, but, like, there was, like, a what if. You can always

Kady Roberts: 01:09:26

see it as, like, a young love kinda thing. Like, I can definitely see that take of Yeah. You know, that kind of, like, looking at each other, just getting a little nervous, getting little butterflies because they are kids

David Geisler: 01:09:34

in this.

Kady Roberts: 01:09:35

When

David Geisler: 01:09:35

when he leaves on the on the on the I almost said the bench. When he leaves on the bridge Yeah. Do you think she knows at that point that he's not really supposed to be there? Because that shot where they pull away from her watching him.

Kady Roberts: 01:09:46

She she realizes I think she knew, like, if you leave here, you're gonna grow up. And she kind of had that moment.

David Geisler: 01:09:52

That's what it is.

Kady Roberts: 01:09:53

Yeah. She knows he's gonna grow up. And she's like, I don't wanna stop that for you because you deserve to be able to go and grow up and live your life. I, like, I'm not gonna like, things aren't gonna be the same anymore between us because you're gonna grow up. I'm gonna stay a kid, and we're gonna be completely 2 different people.

David Geisler: 01:10:13

And he might not have fully realized that at the time. And so

Kady Roberts: 01:10:15

when he comes back as a dog know.

David Geisler: 01:10:17

Yeah. But she did, I think.

Kady Roberts: 01:10:18

I think she did. I think she she had that moment. And that's why I really like that part. And then when you do come back to Saria, you have another you grew up Mhmm. And you left.

David Geisler: 01:10:30

There's a lot of oh, we maybe should've talked about this before the break, but there's a lot of, like, grow up themes, not just the literal aging of the whatever 7 to 14 or whatever it is, you know, 8 10 to 16 or whatever people say it actually is in the game. I know it's a 7 year jump. But there's a lot of characters that speak to Link about, like, oh, you're becoming a man now. Or look at you grow. Look at you.

David Geisler: 01:10:53

Look at your or or others saying you're just a child even if even in this even even in the 14 year old version of Link or whatever. Yeah. 17 year old version of Link.

Kady Roberts: 01:10:59

Yeah. And I think it's one of those things too, talking to where my heart was at, where I'm like, why are we going back in time and sending him back? Because it's because he grew up.

David Geisler: 01:11:09

You mean at the end?

Kady Roberts: 01:11:10

Yeah. It's like he just grew up. And now you're sending him back. And he's now gonna be a child, but his brain, he's still gone through all that.

David Geisler: 01:11:18

Right. Which is what informs his disposition in Majora's Mask. Exactly. He's a 17 year old in a, you know, 10 year old's body in that in that way, at least from a at least from an experience point of view.

Kady Roberts: 01:11:30

No. Absolutely. And, yeah. I just the things of that. I've always been such a sucker for, stuff kinda dealing with that of, like, the whole coming back after the war and Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:11:42

Everyone stayed the same, but you've changed almost like a Frodo Baggins type situation Absolutely. From Lord of the Rings. And just being, like, how do you continue those relationships?

David Geisler: 01:11:53

I completely agree. And I always figured that he went back because him, I guess, going forward or being frozen in time wasn't really part of the plan. It would you know, the whole Ganon doors thing, the whole Ganon thing, the, you know, in it wasn't, it wasn't like he jumped forward and then the problem began. The problem began before he jumped forward.

Kady Roberts: 01:12:16

No. Absolutely.

David Geisler: 01:12:16

And so they had to go back to there, I think.

Kady Roberts: 01:12:18

Yeah. And I'd I'd think it was a perfect way to end. Yeah. I I'm just not denying the devastation of that. Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:12:25

Sure.

Kady Roberts: 01:12:25

Because it really is one of those things too of, like, he might have jumped forward in time, but technically he's not supposed to be there yet. So he still has to go back, but now things are so wonky.

David Geisler: 01:12:38

Well, one of the justifications for one of the timeline threads, because this is the game that Nintendo has decided to have 3 threads go out of, is that the young link timeline where he does go back, he off screen after the game, maybe even between Ocarina and Majoras is able to tell the king about Ganondorf because Ganondorf exists in that timeline Yeah. In the beginning. And so Ganondorf is never able to rise to power in the young link timeline coming out of Ocarina. So because Link goes through the whole journey, defeats Ganon in that other timeline where he's an adult, which does have other games come after it, when he goes back at the end of Ocarina. And as a kid, the idea is that the problem never happens because he's able to let the king know, like, don't trust this guy.

Kady Roberts: 01:13:23

I love that.

David Geisler: 01:13:24

So how do you feel about Zelda?

Kady Roberts: 01:13:27

Zelda. Oh, at first, I was like because when you meet her, she's a kid, which it was kind of a cool cut scene of Ganon taking her away, Link trying to stop him, getting smashed to the side. That was cool. Yeah. But at first when she got taken, I was just like, okay.

Kady Roberts: 01:13:45

Okay. She's gone. Alright. I don't really know this girl, but alright.

David Geisler: 01:13:50

The the another cutscene is when Link finds her in the courtyard, I thought was super cool.

Kady Roberts: 01:13:55

Yes. No. I think all the cut scenes with Zelda were very well done in this game. And especially later on when she becomes Sheik, which I think I talked about this on one of the episodes before. But my introduction to Sheik was when I was a kid playing Smash Bros.

David Geisler: 01:14:10

Yep.

Kady Roberts: 01:14:11

And I thought Sheik was a guy still. And I was like, wow. Sheik is really cute. Oh. I was like, wow.

Kady Roberts: 01:14:18

And then I found out Sheik was Zelda and I was like, that's even cuter. That's cool. I was like, that's amazing. And so now getting to go back and play the game that Sheik is from, I felt like my little heart, like, so excited because I'm like, I finally get to see Sheik in, like, her natural element. And I love the relationship between her and Link and how she becomes, like, Link's mentor through the game.

David Geisler: 01:14:41

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The first time playing it not knowing that lore, myself and everyone else I spoke to, like, we definitely didn't see it coming at all. You know, you're just like, who's this mysterious person?

David Geisler: 01:14:53

You're almost you're almost wondering if they're a good person or a bad person.

Kady Roberts: 01:14:57

Do they

David Geisler: 01:14:57

have, you know, a mysterious intent? And this idea, if you kinda use your headcanon a little bit and, put her put Zelda going through these 7 years while Link's frozen, basically, I guess, taking on the identity of Sheik over those 7 years and doing what she can and then being there to be ready for Link, it's it'd be there's a whole story there that could be fascinating.

Kady Roberts: 01:15:17

Yeah. And I think it's really cool because this is one of the first Zelda games where Zelda really does play a pivotal part in the story. Yeah. And she gets so much of a bigger role. And then to the point where now we have echoes of wisdom, which is literally your Zelda.

Kady Roberts: 01:15:30

And I think it's such a cool arc for me playing Ocarina and then immediately going and playing echoes to see that progress over the years

David Geisler: 01:15:39

for fun. Yeah. You're kinda both ends of the spectrum. In in the Nintendo games, she is just a sprite at the end of the game. She is save our princess in our castle.

David Geisler: 01:15:48

You know what I mean? But that's where video games were at that point.

Kady Roberts: 01:15:50

Mhmm.

David Geisler: 01:15:50

This was the beginning of of her becoming a real character. The fact that she aids you in the in the end when the, you know, the castle's falling apart and all that stuff, which we'll talk about, I guess, at the end of the episode here, all of that was really kind of new and cool. She follows Link around a little bit in the Super Nintendo game, but really, he's just like, come come with me if you want to live. You know what I mean? And that's about it.

David Geisler: 01:16:10

She has a little bit of agency at the end, but really this was the first game where you're seeing Zelda be a character. And then when you learn that she is also also Sheik and and you're realizing there's a fully developed character there, it's really cool.

Kady Roberts: 01:16:21

And it's one of those first games where she's not just this princess damsel in distress. She's actively been working over these years. She can fight. She can teach you. She, like, actively is working with you.

Kady Roberts: 01:16:32

Mhmm. And it's so cool to see. And then later on playing, like, Skyward and seeing that relationship there and then Echoes and Breath. It's like, since Ocarina, I feel like the relationship between Link and Zelda really starts to grow because they realize how much people really latched onto it.

David Geisler: 01:16:49

This game also is the birth of the idea of the Sheikah.

Kady Roberts: 01:16:53

Yes. I was gonna say that too. It's very interesting with her being the last of the Sheikah, as she says. And just kind of figuring out what that means for her.

David Geisler: 01:17:03

I also think that this is a great transition in just talking about Impa then. Oh

Kady Roberts: 01:17:06

my gosh. Yes. Impa, I love her design in this game. She's so cool.

David Geisler: 01:17:11

She's hardcore.

Kady Roberts: 01:17:12

She's really cool.

David Geisler: 01:17:13

They changed her design just a little bit compared to the net 64 one, and they also changed some of her poses. I noticed that she in the Zelda cutscene in the in the original game, she had her arms crossed a lot more.

Kady Roberts: 01:17:26

Mhmm. And

David Geisler: 01:17:26

I think she had she was, like, she had her arm out like she was talking to him and stuff

Kady Roberts: 01:17:29

like that.

David Geisler: 01:17:29

It was just a little bit different, but but it's fine. I think it probably made her a more interesting character. I don't know. But there were tiny microscopic changes to Sheik in this version.

Kady Roberts: 01:17:38

Yeah. And they might have I

David Geisler: 01:17:39

mean I

Kady Roberts: 01:17:39

mean Impa. Impa. They might have changed it too because normally arms crossed very cut off, very aggressive. They might have changed that to try and make it so you want to listen to her more and not feel as intimidated maybe. I

David Geisler: 01:17:51

think so. Because when I played the 64 version the first time, I was like, well, this person hates me.

Kady Roberts: 01:17:56

Yeah. No. Exactly. I think it was a good move because I really did love Impa. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:18:00

I liked that she was a bit younger in this version with, like, the mentor kind of thing going on.

David Geisler: 01:18:05

Wow. Yeah. I guess you're right. I never thought about that.

Kady Roberts: 01:18:08

Yeah. This was one of the versions where she was younger. She was buff. She was she was cool.

David Geisler: 01:18:15

She was cool. In in in release order, Impa was a complete reimagining of the character. In the first two in the Nintendo games, let's just say, Impa was Zelda's nurse. She was just this kind of,

Kady Roberts: 01:18:27

like Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:18:28

Kind of roly poly nurse that was just helping Link. And she wasn't even in the first game. She was in the instruction manual. Yeah. Oh, really?

David Geisler: 01:18:33

As a character has existed, but, this was the first time where Impa was actually, like well, I I don't know. To say a real character or whatever, somebody that was actually being realized in the game where they were giving her an identity. They were giving her a culture, this Sheikah thing. Yeah. You know, they kind of blend Sheikah into Kakariko village, she says, is where my family came from.

David Geisler: 01:18:51

And eventually, obviously, in Breath of the Wild, we get, like, the full real Sheikah situation. But, this is the beginning of it all.

Kady Roberts: 01:18:58

Which that was also really cool for me going and seeing, like, she's from Kakariko. I was like, oh my god. This is literally Brett. Like, I was having a lot of those moments where I'm, like, seeing the different games taking from this specific game. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:19:10

One instance which we'll probably talk about the temple that he's from, but, Rauru Yep. From like, I knew him from Tears of the Kingdom. So when I saw Rauru, sage of light, wait a minute.

David Geisler: 01:19:21

Well, I don't even know what you're talking about because Rauru is a town in the adventure of Link. Really? Yeah. Rauru was named after that town.

Kady Roberts: 01:19:28

I didn't know that.

David Geisler: 01:19:29

When Rauru came out of Nokkarena, everyone was like, woah.

Kady Roberts: 01:19:32

It's from Zelda 2. Yeah. For me. I was like, woah.

David Geisler: 01:19:35

I know. It's just through all these

Kady Roberts: 01:19:36

things kingdom. Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:19:37

That just keep going through. But, and it's also why people freaked when they heard Rauru or saw Rauru in the tears of the kingdom trailer. They were like, we're getting Rauru back. And it was Rauru was kind of reinterpreted for tears, but yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:19:49

Yeah. For me, I just watched it. I was like, well, he looks cool.

David Geisler: 01:19:52

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I see. Oh, the tears of the kingdom trailer?

Kady Roberts: 01:19:54

Yeah. Because I I didn't know. But yeah. It's yeah. It's one of those things going back.

Kady Roberts: 01:19:58

Same thing with Dante. I went and when I saw him, I was like, this is like Link's Awakening.

David Geisler: 01:20:03

And this was the or the origin of Dante?

Kady Roberts: 01:20:05

Yeah. The

David Geisler: 01:20:05

first game Dante was ever in.

Kady Roberts: 01:20:07

Really? Okay. Because I played Link's Awakening HD, and he's in that.

David Geisler: 01:20:10

Well, they added him in.

Kady Roberts: 01:20:11

They yeah. Which I didn't realize.

David Geisler: 01:20:12

Oh, really? I thought maybe we mentioned that on our episode, but maybe we didn't.

Kady Roberts: 01:20:15

Yeah. And you might have and I might have just forgotten.

David Geisler: 01:20:17

The Dante cave builder level builder thing was was was put into the game.

Kady Roberts: 01:20:22

You did say that. But yeah. And I also like that just the Dante love. He's been coming back in newer games now too, which is kinda cool. So he's starting to become a character that's, like, a staple for me that I really like to see.

Kady Roberts: 01:20:32

Kinda like Beetle, my love and my love and savior. Beetle.

David Geisler: 01:20:36

No no Beetle and Ocarina yet.

Kady Roberts: 01:20:37

Unfortunately, but, you know, not every game can be perfect. But yeah. I I

David Geisler: 01:20:44

think we should keep moving, but is there any other I mean, I guess we could let's speak to Ganondorf. This is the first time that Ganon was realized as a humanoid as Ganondorf.

Kady Roberts: 01:20:52

This is

David Geisler: 01:20:52

the first time Ganondorf existed.

Kady Roberts: 01:20:54

I love it. I love it. I love Ganondorf in this game. I love the origins of the Gerudo in this game and the lore behind them.

David Geisler: 01:21:02

All all that was new?

Kady Roberts: 01:21:03

Yeah. Getting to see their town and interact with them, kinda sneak around before you end up, like, befriending them and then you can, like, really go explore and talk to them. Totally. I think this game did a really good job with the world building of everything. And I think that really shone through.

David Geisler: 01:21:19

When this game was being made and I stand corrected. The Gerudo are mentioned in some of the previous games, but I don't you don't really like you know, Ganon coming from Gerudo and stuff like that, I think was somewhat mentioned before. But this is the first time we're really kinda seeing them as a culture. But this game, when it was when it first came out, looking at it now, it feels not enormous, but it was epic. Epically large.

David Geisler: 01:21:43

The idea that you could actually go to these towns and and and have these really realized cultures compared to a couple of sprites on a top down map, which is what Link's Awakening was. Link's Awakening and A Link to the Past, there was, like, a lot of focus on the development of the game and even in the marketing and what people were talking about. Like, woah. It's I mean, it was essentially, it was a conversation about being in 3 d instead of 2 d. Well, yeah.

David Geisler: 01:22:04

But the fact that the Gerudo could have a realized area, well, the Zora and the and the Gorons were inventions for this game, but but all of these characters, everything was I'm rambling, but what I'm trying to say is everything was just able to be fleshed out more because of the new graphics, honestly.

Kady Roberts: 01:22:20

And I think what was also really cool about this game, especially with the Ganondorf situation was if you play games like Breath and Tears, yes, they all have their own rulers, but they all listen to and work under Hyrule. This was a game where they all have their own rulers and they all behaved like they all had their own rulers. They had to do peace treaties and diplomacy and everything between all of them.

David Geisler: 01:22:45

You are a 100% right. And you you felt that from playing the game?

Kady Roberts: 01:22:48

Absolutely.

David Geisler: 01:22:49

That's great.

Kady Roberts: 01:22:50

I and that was, like, a moment where I was I really enjoyed it because with breath, I was, like, it was really cool, but there was none of that tension, none of that, like, different people type scenario, you know?

David Geisler: 01:23:02

A lot of people miss like, you the Zora Kingdom needs, you know, they have a relationship with the Hylians.

Kady Roberts: 01:23:08

Exactly. It's like they all have their own little relationships. But that being said, they all weren't just going to listen and serve under the Hyrule king because why would they serve under the like, that's not our kingdom. Like Right. We're worried about our own kingdom.

David Geisler: 01:23:22

And it and then maybe when we get to the the spirit dungeon, there's there's implications of some of those, cultures not not aligning as well. Maybe we'll get to that in just a minute. I don't wanna skip to it. So let's let's remember this moment. I do wanna kinda keep moving, but, any other takeaway?

David Geisler: 01:23:36

I think we did all the major characters here.

Kady Roberts: 01:23:40

Malon. Malon's great.

David Geisler: 01:23:41

Let's do Malon. Yeah. Absolutely.

Kady Roberts: 01:23:42

Yeah. She's cute. Mhmm. I I don't have, like, too much to say about her, but she's cute. I like, her little Epona song.

David Geisler: 01:23:49

Malon and Talon, in release order came out after Meryn and Taryn from Link's Awakening. Clear clear, you know, nod to

Kady Roberts: 01:23:57

those characters. Which I think is why a lot of people like, the the person that commented today about Malon and Link.

David Geisler: 01:24:03

Oh, yeah. What was that? What was the

Kady Roberts: 01:24:04

the theory about Malon and Link getting together and, passing down Epona's song to Twilight Princess League. Mhmm. I think that's why people lean into that so much. Because even though the interactions with Malon weren't too huge in this game, it is because she comes from Link's Awakening and those feelings never die.

David Geisler: 01:24:22

You just said you feel that she comes from Link's Awakening? Because Link's Awakening is kind of, like, all in a dream. Well,

Kady Roberts: 01:24:28

no. No. No. Not, like, literally that she comes from that game, but in the sense of her character has been inspired from that character.

David Geisler: 01:24:36

Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:24:36

So the just the implications there already, it doesn't it doesn't matter. They're just so perfect together in that previous game.

David Geisler: 01:24:44

I I I agree. And we don't have to get too shippy, but I do feel that if you kinda track the game I like this theory that was presented to us because, you know, it's easy to assume an, romantic relationship between Link and Zelda. And there's some games where that's more emphasized and some games where that's less emphasized. In some games, there's no romance at all between the 2. And I kind of feel that I went into Ocarina of Time back in 1999 or 1997, whatever it was, just assuming a romantic relationship between the 2 because there kind of was one in the Nintendo games and and in the Legend of Zelda cartoon.

David Geisler: 01:25:17

Certainly, it was very heavy. But if you really think about it, Zelda I think they have just kind of a just a relationship. There's the you know? Yes. She's helping him at the end, but there's no Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:25:29

There's no hug. There's no kiss. There's no, like, thank you for saving me.

Kady Roberts: 01:25:32

I felt like even going back in time then to the end when he, like, introduces himself to her again, there isn't really even a friendship there. It's just kind of like these 2 people that met under certain circumstances and then went their own ways.

David Geisler: 01:25:47

Well, here's something that just blew my mind. I'm just going Yeah. Try to blow yours here by accident. I just realized that if Link did all of that and then went back in time, that means that Zelda never became chic, never went through that. They never had the shared experience.

Kady Roberts: 01:26:01

Exactly.

David Geisler: 01:26:02

So as a kid I thought this maybe that's what you're speaking to. Yes. Yeah. Then the kid kid Link and Zelda, yeah, he

Kady Roberts: 01:26:07

he They know nothing about each other.

David Geisler: 01:26:08

Basically, he says watch out for this Ganondorf guy, and then there

Kady Roberts: 01:26:11

it is. Goes on his way and heads back to the forest.

David Geisler: 01:26:12

I'm into oh, wait. But then is does Saria still exist, or did the sages die eternally? Do they are they gone forever?

Kady Roberts: 01:26:21

I don't know. There's so much to speak to in this game. Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:26:26

I I felt maybe it is because of the Meryn thing. I felt like I as a player, my heart went out to Malon a little bit. You know what I mean?

Kady Roberts: 01:26:35

Because it is just one of those things where you actually do get to kinda have a little bit of a relationship with her.

David Geisler: 01:26:39

Mhmm.

Kady Roberts: 01:26:41

Yeah. No. Malon's great. Talon needs to get it together, though.

David Geisler: 01:26:44

Talon's a wreck. Like, I can see wreck. Why the Luigi analog guy, I forget his name right now. Mhmm. Ingo, I think.

David Geisler: 01:26:51

Isn't that right? I think it's

Kady Roberts: 01:26:52

Ingo. Something like that.

David Geisler: 01:26:53

I could see why he's so upset, honestly. Now I could see why he was just, like, ready to turn when Ganondorf came and said, hey. I'll make your life better.

Kady Roberts: 01:26:58

Yeah. I was like, okay, man. You sleep with your cuckoos. You do your own thing, I guess.

David Geisler: 01:27:03

And they call it sleep, but we all know what's going on. He's drinking way too much milk.

Kady Roberts: 01:27:06

Oh, yeah. He's having way too much milk.

David Geisler: 01:27:08

Way too much milk.

Kady Roberts: 01:27:09

Alan's out there working on the farm and sleeping away.

David Geisler: 01:27:12

And I'm sure you've gone to the milk bar, Majora's Mask now at some at some point in the city. Have you not yet? Oh. Can you guess who is the bartender there?

Kady Roberts: 01:27:19

Oh, yes. I did. Because I remember seeing Melon. I'm like, why are you here?

David Geisler: 01:27:23

Yeah. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:27:24

I did. I remember that.

David Geisler: 01:27:26

Cool. Okay. Well, as we did characters, let's just go through let's just kinda quick hit the dungeons and our thoughts on them. We don't have to necessarily dig into every little moment here because we've actually, more than I expected, have had a pretty pretty comprehensive conversation about this game already. Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:27:38

And I'm really quite pleased with it. But just to do our due diligence, what were your thoughts about the Deku Tree? You had you had played it once before years ago ish. Like, you got to it and that was your part where you're like, I've I've done enough. Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:27:49

Alright. Cool.

Kady Roberts: 01:27:50

So this is I have, like, no memories really from it either. So I went in pretty blind. I had a great time. The skulltulas are a little annoying, but that's just how they are in every game because you have like knock them around and then hit them. It was really fun.

Kady Roberts: 01:28:07

I really I I enjoyed that one a lot. My roommate was screaming the entire time because she's scared of spiders, but,

David Geisler: 01:28:13

you know. Yeah. It's a it's a great little dungeon. I love that you go into it not really fully realizing it's a dungeon yet.

Kady Roberts: 01:28:19

Well, yeah.

David Geisler: 01:28:19

You're kinda like, okay. I'm gonna do this. And about halfway through, you're like, oh, I mean, I know the dungeon map comes up. We all know it's the trainer dungeon. Like, every Zelda game has their first training dungeon or some version of it.

David Geisler: 01:28:29

But it's really cool that as a you don't really pick up on that until you're about halfway through.

Kady Roberts: 01:28:32

Yeah. I certainly didn't. I was just like, okay. I'm just gonna go do this thing. And then I'm, like, halfway through.

Kady Roberts: 01:28:36

I'm like, why do I have 3 keys?

David Geisler: 01:28:38

How did you do with burning spider webs? Oh. There's a couple spider web puzzles that get a little that aren't particularly intuitive. There's a couple spider webs you have to burn that some people get a hard lock on there. They're they don't they can't.

David Geisler: 01:28:54

For example, when you go through the spider web and get down into the lower parts of the dungeon? I don't know. Do you have any thoughts?

Kady Roberts: 01:29:00

Well, our our friends, good old pals over at Zelda Dungeon, are my best friend, Mangos.

David Geisler: 01:29:05

You did a walk through. They're my

Kady Roberts: 01:29:06

best friend in this game. Oh, my gosh. They've also been my best friend through Majora so far. Love you guys. You're great.

David Geisler: 01:29:14

So the the whole the the the figuring out what to do element wasn't there as much?

Kady Roberts: 01:29:18

No. Got it. Not at all.

David Geisler: 01:29:20

Okay. Okay. Noted.

Kady Roberts: 01:29:21

I I do not have the patience nor do I have the mental capacity to figure out some puzzle.

David Geisler: 01:29:29

Do you enjoy being lost in a video game and trying to figure out what you need to do? It's okay if the answer is no. Times. No?

Kady Roberts: 01:29:35

Not all the time, though.

David Geisler: 01:29:37

I feel that one of the strengths of Zelda games is that they make that sensation of being lost very enjoyable.

Kady Roberts: 01:29:42

Mhmm. I I will say some of the newer ones I've enjoyed. Some of the older ones, though, I feel like some of the things you have to do are very difficult to figure out.

David Geisler: 01:29:52

Katie, I should say this for our next episode, but did you use a walk through for echoes of wisdom?

Kady Roberts: 01:29:57

No. The

David Geisler: 01:29:58

Okay.

Kady Roberts: 01:29:58

I played that completely blind. The only time I used a walk through was when I was almost into the game just to a 100% and collect everything.

David Geisler: 01:30:04

You've also told me that that's your second favorite Zelda game now.

Kady Roberts: 01:30:06

It is.

David Geisler: 01:30:07

I'm not I'm not trying to walk through, shame you. I think walk throughs are great, and they're really important at certain times. But maybe, like, the the the journey through those dungeons, it being your own emotional journey was was part of that experience. But I don't wanna tell you what your experience was.

Kady Roberts: 01:30:19

No. No. No. No. You're completely correct.

Kady Roberts: 01:30:21

It's one of those things though where I with those older games, I think what my big thing that I realized is I am a completionist. I wanna get everything. And I don't like backtracking. So a lot of times I do use, the walk through to make sure I get every chest. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:30:37

I get

David Geisler: 01:30:37

all the scuttall or the little skull, I get

Kady Roberts: 01:30:39

all the scultulas. Scultulas.

David Geisler: 01:30:41

That's it. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:30:43

Or, yeah. I think that so with that, following the walk through Yeah. And I get into a rhythm of just, like, hit this part. Okay. Let me look and see what to do.

Kady Roberts: 01:30:52

Yeah. Cool. Keep going. Yeah. So it is it's a blessing and a curse.

David Geisler: 01:30:56

Well, at the same time too, I think as games as the vernacular of games has matured, and become more nuanced, the the being able to suss out what to do next is is probably communicated through the level design and through the games a little bit better now. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:31:11

I thought

David Geisler: 01:31:11

Echo's of Wisdom did a great job of that. We'll save it for our next episode.

Kady Roberts: 01:31:13

Absolutely.

David Geisler: 01:31:14

And I think so, like, there was one time, like, you don't Breath of the Wild was so cool because it had a physics system and you kinda could deduce, like, if I have fire, I can probably burn grass and blah blah blah blah.

Kady Roberts: 01:31:23

Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:31:23

But back in Ocarina of Time days, it wasn't intuitively obvious that you could burn a spider web.

Kady Roberts: 01:31:28

Mhmm.

David Geisler: 01:31:29

That's where

Kady Roberts: 01:31:29

I had a really hard time. It was that thing of, like, the intuition, like, you were saying. Whereas when I hopped over to Wind Waker, they started building that in a lot better. But there were still times where I'm, like, playing tag or, like, hide and seek with the kids. And, like, how am I supposed to know I'm supposed to roll into this specific tree to get this kid out?

David Geisler: 01:31:46

Right. And you yeah. Exactly. You're absolutely right. And sometimes people just keep rolling and running around or they roll into it by accident, and that's, like, the story they tell.

David Geisler: 01:31:52

But it also means they play for 5 hours until it happens, and that can be frustrating.

Kady Roberts: 01:31:54

I don't have the patience. I hear you.

David Geisler: 01:31:56

I hear you. There's a a classic moment in the beginning of Twilight Princess, and I'm not ruining anything. It's in the first, like, hour of gameplay where you have to specifically decide to use the fishing rod to fish for a fish in a very specific part of a river so that when you pull it out, a cat will grab it and run away.

Kady Roberts: 01:32:12

Mhmm.

David Geisler: 01:32:12

And there is just no context clues.

Kady Roberts: 01:32:15

That that's what I'm saying. I feel like that is one thing that I've struggled going back to play different Zelda games because there is a lot of those moments where there is not any context as to what to do. And when when you do it, you're like, okay, that makes sense. But before you get there, it's like I tried all these different things, nothing is working. But because I didn't try this specific thing in this specific spot at this specific time Mhmm.

Kady Roberts: 01:32:38

Then it didn't work.

David Geisler: 01:32:38

And I think that's kind of you know, that's where a walk through can be very, very helpful.

Kady Roberts: 01:32:41

Yes.

David Geisler: 01:32:41

And I don't want to turn this conversation, but walk throughs, but very good. Okay. Cool. Deku Tree. Did you how do you feel how'd you feel about, Gohma?

Kady Roberts: 01:32:49

Gohma?

David Geisler: 01:32:50

The our our boss at the end.

Kady Roberts: 01:32:51

Oh, thank you. I was gonna say I the the names. Oh, my god.

David Geisler: 01:32:56

It was the spider with the big eye, and it would crawl on the ceiling and stuff?

Kady Roberts: 01:32:59

Yes. No. I really enjoyed that. Mhmm. I thought it was a really fun boss level.

Kady Roberts: 01:33:03

I feel like a lot of the bosses in this game were very fun.

David Geisler: 01:33:06

I thought so too.

Kady Roberts: 01:33:07

And I I really enjoy this is one thing about old Zelda games I do enjoy. Normally, each dungeon, you get a new item Mhmm. And the boss, you have to use that item to defeat. And I think that flows so perfectly, and I really love that.

David Geisler: 01:33:19

Yes. Usually you usually in a in a classic zel 3 d Zelda game, you use everything you've gotten up to that point to get through the first half of the dungeon. There's a mid boss that or or a mid something. Usually, it's a mid boss. Sometimes it's a mid puzzle.

David Geisler: 01:33:30

A mid boss that gives you a new item. You use the second half of the dungeon getting used to that item, and then you're tested on that item in with the boss.

Kady Roberts: 01:33:36

I love it. I I feel like it's such a tried and true, like, formula. Yeah. And it feels so smooth, and it feels so good every time you get to that final boss and finally get to, like, whip out your new item and just wail on them.

David Geisler: 01:33:48

Speaking of context clues, one thing that was really cool about this boss battle is that in the very beginning, you're walking around and you're just hearing the the walking around. You only know what's going on. Also, this is one of the first times in a Nintendo 64 game where there was dynamic lighting. Maybe you noticed, maybe you just felt it. But when Link goes into any of the boss battles, the lighting goes from, like, a very certain direction, the colors change, and it's all very dramatic.

David Geisler: 01:34:10

They when you finally look up, when you finally go into your first person view and look up and see Goma up there, you've taught yourself that you might have to look up to find enemies. Like, up to that point, there wasn't too much up and down, and then you start learning, oh, I can use my arrows and look up and shoot Goma down and have it fall down. And so they give you some of those contact clues right off the bat, which is very cool.

Kady Roberts: 01:34:32

Yeah. No. I yeah. I think

David Geisler: 01:34:35

I said arrows, but I think it's, it's not arrows at that point. It's the slingshot. I missed

Kady Roberts: 01:34:38

that. But it's basically the thing. It's the same. Which I was gonna say earlier, I do really enjoy that you have different items depending on if you're young Link or older Link because you're you can use different things. You're too small, you're too big, or whatever, which is really cool.

Kady Roberts: 01:34:53

I've really enjoyed that.

David Geisler: 01:34:54

How'd you feel about Dodongo Cavern, the second one?

Kady Roberts: 01:34:57

I loved it. I really because it's one of those things too. With the Dodongos, you play against them time and time again in the games. So as soon as you get there, you're like, I know how to deal with these guys. And then you can just go and have a blast.

David Geisler: 01:35:10

Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I liked that the Dodongo Cavern actually had a kinda scary music. For us, all the games are the first time we were starting to get a little scary in the game.

David Geisler: 01:35:18

And, I loved the Dodongo skull, figuring out all the different puzzles.

Kady Roberts: 01:35:22

It was the first time the Dodongo's really looked that way too. Because normally they're like the big blobby boys. You know what I'm talking about?

David Geisler: 01:35:29

In release order, there was a Dodongo at as a boss of, like, the 3rd level in the first Zelda game.

Kady Roberts: 01:35:36

Mhmm. I

David Geisler: 01:35:36

think that's the only time it I mean, I think there's a Dodongo

Kady Roberts: 01:35:39

awakening not out yet?

David Geisler: 01:35:40

Oh, there's Dodongo's Link's Awakening. You're right. No. It came before that. You're absolutely right.

David Geisler: 01:35:43

Yeah. They were kinda like they looked like big triceratopses or something like that a little bit.

Kady Roberts: 01:35:47

Well, in this one, yeah. But in those ones, they had, like, the big circle, like, things. Do you do you know what time it'll look?

David Geisler: 01:35:53

They look like a triceratops in the Nintendo game.

Kady Roberts: 01:35:56

Wait. Wait. Wait. Okay. Pulling

David Geisler: 01:35:57

it up? Yeah. Let's do it. Like But this kind of, like, lizard triceratops without the horns look was definitely They

Kady Roberts: 01:36:04

look like this.

David Geisler: 01:36:06

That's not a Dodongo.

Kady Roberts: 01:36:07

Yeah. It's a Dodongo snake and even in the classic ones.

David Geisler: 01:36:10

Okay. Okay. Okay. But okay. That is maybe technically a different animal because it's called Dodongo snake?

Kady Roberts: 01:36:17

Wait. I I don't know. That's, like when I hear Dodongo, I think of those guys. Cool. The, like, big circle y boys.

David Geisler: 01:36:22

Probably how you got introduced to them. Right?

Kady Roberts: 01:36:23

Well, yeah. That's how I was introduced to them. So then when I

David Geisler: 01:36:25

got to see that those were called Dodongo snakes.

Kady Roberts: 01:36:27

Really? Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:36:27

Thanks for bringing that.

Kady Roberts: 01:36:28

Yeah. You defeat them the same way of having them eat the bombs and stuff. So when I saw them in Ocarina and then Majoras, I was like, this is a cool new design for them.

David Geisler: 01:36:36

Cool new design. I was

Kady Roberts: 01:36:38

like, oh, they look like actual things now.

David Geisler: 01:36:40

The, the Ocarina of Time Dodongo's clear they absolutely referenced the very first Legend of Zelda the way Dodongo looks. One thing that's kind of fun, it took me a while to really realize, they don't have back legs. I mean, the big dango does, but the little guys, they just have little

Kady Roberts: 01:36:53

legs that are around. Yeah. They're really scary, though.

David Geisler: 01:36:56

I think they are.

Kady Roberts: 01:36:57

Do a lot of damage.

David Geisler: 01:36:58

They take a while. Once you get the pattern down of, like, hit the hit the tail and run around the medium sized ones, but they can they've they I remember going into some of those areas, some of those rooms, those cavernous rooms, and you're just like, oh my gosh. There's 3 more. What am I gonna do? You know, the first time you play.

David Geisler: 01:37:13

King Dodongo, giant Dodongo, whatever it's called, the the boss of the, Dodongo cavern, has a nice scary opening intro.

Kady Roberts: 01:37:20

He does. That's what I'm saying. The music in this game is incredible. It's very well suited to every situation and every moment that you're in.

David Geisler: 01:37:28

We get a first person shot from the monster walking towards Link, which is like classic horror movie, rules, actually. Link turns around, and the thing screams at him. One of the my favorite things about all of the bosses in Ocarina of Time, and maybe this just be a returning or a continuing theme as we speak about them, is that when you are first introduced to them, you absolutely have a few seconds of panic where you're like, what am what am I can't. Oh, absolutely. What am I gonna do?

David Geisler: 01:37:56

And then you slowly

Kady Roberts: 01:37:57

roll you straight in.

David Geisler: 01:37:57

They slowly straight in, and you slowly start figuring out it's a puzzle. Every

Kady Roberts: 01:38:01

Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:38:01

Every a good Zelda boss is a puzzle, which is what I think awesome. And you slowly start to learn, oh, okay. Oh, it oh, it's oh, he inhaled a bomb or whatever. Yeah. Maybe you kinda know that from the first Zelda game.

David Geisler: 01:38:11

But, or, oh, he runs around and rolls. Okay. I can kinda go here. And once you get the patterns down, you can take care of these bosses. But in the beginning, the first time playing, even the dragon in the fire temple later on, you're just like, how?

David Geisler: 01:38:24

No. What? There's no way. And then you slowly figure it out, which is a really cool thing.

Kady Roberts: 01:38:27

Yeah. And I will say for as far as me with my walk throughs, normally, I will try and beat the boss first by myself. And then if I'm, like, doing nothing to it and I'm, like, I feel like I've tried everything, then I'll look. So it is one of those things. I do very much enjoy that puzzle part of the Zelda games.

Kady Roberts: 01:38:45

Because when it comes to the boss, it's like, I know I need to use this new item, but how do I need to use it? And kind of deducing that and figuring it out.

David Geisler: 01:38:53

Yeah. For sure. And and one of Zelda games at its worst is when they project what you're supposed to do a little too much, like there's some huge eye on something or, like, there's some huge you know, but that's okay. That's okay. One of the fun things about the the first time I did the the giant Dodongo fight was I genuinely was terrified.

David Geisler: 01:39:08

I genuinely took a few seconds to figure out what to even do. Mhmm. There's some graphic clues. Like, when he inhales, you can kinda see there's, like, wind going into his mouth, and you can slowly put some stuff together. But, that's a blast.

David Geisler: 01:39:19

Let's move on to Jabu Jabu.

Kady Roberts: 01:39:22

Jabu Jabu. Oh, Jabu Jabu. Name. Jabu Jabu Jabu Jabu.

David Geisler: 01:39:24

Jabu Jabu Fish. Yes.

Kady Roberts: 01:39:25

And, of

David Geisler: 01:39:26

course, then you've obviously also experienced Jabu Jabu in Echoes of Wisdom, which is a ton of fun.

Kady Roberts: 01:39:29

Yes. And that was exciting for me, which we have to talk about Ruta. Sure. Those are our princess.

David Geisler: 01:39:36

I guess we skipped her in the character's part.

Kady Roberts: 01:39:37

Yeah. She is such a brat, and I love her.

David Geisler: 01:39:40

Okay.

Kady Roberts: 01:39:41

She is so funny. But I love the Jabba Jabba fight. I love, the whole dungeon is really fun. Running around with, like, I think it's electric, the the guys that can, like, hit you. A little annoying, but it's also kind of fun where you have to carry her through it.

Kady Roberts: 01:40:00

And she gets mad at you when you throw her and put her down.

David Geisler: 01:40:03

Yes.

Kady Roberts: 01:40:04

Yeah. It's like it's like a really fun mission. And it's one of those moments where it it really feels like a kid link interacting with another kid.

David Geisler: 01:40:12

I agree. And when you start to realize, oh, I have not only am I helping her out, but I can frankly use her as a tool by putting her on certain buttons and things like that, then the then the puzzle, you know, mechanic comes in even more, and it and it's cool.

Kady Roberts: 01:40:24

Yeah. It was a really cool moment where I'm in a room, and there's nothing. It's just 2 buttons. I'm like, what am I supposed to work with here? And then I put her down.

Kady Roberts: 01:40:32

I'm like, wait a minute. You got body weight.

David Geisler: 01:40:34

Exactly. Or, I think there's one puzzle where if you hold her, you both weigh enough to push one of the hard buttons down. That's kinda cool.

Kady Roberts: 01:40:40

Was a really cool moment. I just something about the physics of that when they're starting to think of the physics in the games is really cool.

David Geisler: 01:40:47

Ocarina of Time did not use a physics engine, but they did try to emulate some physics like this.

Kady Roberts: 01:40:51

Yeah. They emulated it.

David Geisler: 01:40:52

Yeah. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:40:52

I enjoyed that a lot.

David Geisler: 01:40:53

Wind Waker was one of the first times they actually had proper physics engines running. And so you might notice wind. Yeah. Like the wind yeah. The wind was part of it.

David Geisler: 01:40:59

But, like, when you go when as you continue to play Wind Waker, you'll see the the particles in the air from the the lava or, vines hanging from the trees. Those are all technically running little physics algorithms. It's not it's not a full physics engine, the way Breath of the Wild and Tears Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, at their core, the engine of the game has a physics engine running. In Wind Waker, they just kind of insert little parts at certain like, certain rooms will load up that stuff. But, anyways, this one here, a little bit of that too.

David Geisler: 01:41:25

The boss in this one is just the big infection spinny infection thing where you just learn how to use your boomerang. It's fine. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:41:32

It's okay.

David Geisler: 01:41:32

Yeah. Run around a little scary.

Kady Roberts: 01:41:34

Yeah. That one was, a little bit scary.

David Geisler: 01:41:40

That I mean, that technically takes us to the forest temple, but there is the kinda jump in time after that. He bring you bring the 3 stones back. Okay. Link goes in.

Kady Roberts: 01:41:48

Yeah. You do sorry. I'm, like, going through a thing to, like, remind myself. Technically, you do Phantom Ganon next, don't you?

David Geisler: 01:41:54

Well, Phantom Ganon's in the forest. That's the boss. Oh, that

Kady Roberts: 01:41:56

is the forest temple. Okay. Yeah. His was cool too, going through the paintings.

David Geisler: 01:42:00

Coming out of the paintings. Yes.

Kady Roberts: 01:42:02

I remember specifically, the first time I'd ever seen that was at one of those Zelda Dungeon marathons when they were playing.

David Geisler: 01:42:08

Okay.

Kady Roberts: 01:42:08

And so I saw that, and I was like, this is cool.

David Geisler: 01:42:11

The fact that they were able to kinda have the perspective of the 3 d model line up with the image of the actual paint that the developers were able to line it up so it actually looks like he's actually gonna And,

Kady Roberts: 01:42:19

like, you got to go and

David Geisler: 01:42:20

jump in

Kady Roberts: 01:42:20

1st person and, like, look around and try and figure out what's going on.

David Geisler: 01:42:23

Absolutely.

Kady Roberts: 01:42:24

Same thing with, it was really cool. Just completely incorporating the paintings to remind me is it Mario n 64 that they go into the painting Super Nintendo?

David Geisler: 01:42:32

You're absolutely right.

Kady Roberts: 01:42:33

Yeah. It reminded me a lot of that where a lot of it was painting based and even with, to unlock all the areas with the different, the where where they the pose, the Uh-huh. Little spirits. You had to, like, go and, like, shoot them in the specific paintings, but if they caught you or, like, saw you, then they would, like, disappear. You'd have to leave and come back.

Kady Roberts: 01:42:50

A little

David Geisler: 01:42:51

bit of stealth is in the Zelda game. A little bit of stealth.

Kady Roberts: 01:42:53

It was a cool dungeon.

David Geisler: 01:42:54

It's funny that you should mention the Mario connection because when the Legend of Zelda 64 was originally or Ocarina of Time was originally being developed, the original concept is that the entire adventure would happen from Ganondorf's castle

Kady Roberts: 01:43:06

Really?

David Geisler: 01:43:06

And that you go into paintings to go to the other worlds just like but then they decided, oh gosh. This is maybe too similar to Super Mario 64. But, originally, they also thought that they didn't think that they were gonna be able to make a Hyrule field. They thought they didn't have enough memory in the cartridge. And even as it is Hyrule field, if you really think about it, it's kinda sparse.

David Geisler: 01:43:21

It's really stretched out. Yeah. But they figured out a way, and so then they weren't gonna use the Ganondorf's castle idea anymore. It's kind of represented again at the end there. Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:43:30

But the models that they had used for this hub world became the forest temple. Really? So the geometry of going up and down the stairs and the pictures the ghosts in the pictures and then the final battle and that the literal going up the stairs into with the rope around the thing Yeah. Was originally built to be part of the hub world. And then they repurposed it as the forest temple, which is super cool.

David Geisler: 01:43:52

I also think forest temple is one of the most well realized environmental, dungeons.

Kady Roberts: 01:43:58

It's really good.

David Geisler: 01:43:58

The moss hanging down everywhere. You know what I mean? Vines hanging everywhere. Like, you really feel like you're in a lived in area. You don't feel like you're just necessarily moving through squares and rectangles.

Kady Roberts: 01:44:09

I will also say, with me constantly being, like, I recognize this from Breath of the Wild or Tears. The Phantom Ganon outfit, you can get in tears. I never knew what that was until I went to Zelda Dungeon marathon stream, saw that. And I got talking with one of the guys there being, like, I had no clue that this was from something. Yep.

Kady Roberts: 01:44:30

Yep. So that was a really cool moment too.

David Geisler: 01:44:32

It was the first time we really had a phantom Ganon, to my understanding. Phantom Ganon will come up later. Obviously, there's a phantom Ganon in Wind Waker and all that kind of stuff. Alright. Let's move on.

David Geisler: 01:44:40

Fire Dungeon. This is the one that, I I will forever have nightmares about just because it took me 1 month to get through because I kept getting because I kept restarting.

Kady Roberts: 01:44:47

You'll probably remember it way better than I do.

David Geisler: 01:44:50

Well, it's the one where you're saving all the Gorons Yeah. You might remember.

Kady Roberts: 01:44:52

I do I do remember the dungeon very well. Yeah. Saving all the Gorons is fun, and they all give you, like, a little tidbit or, like, a little piece of advice Yep. Which is fun. Just getting to sneak around.

Kady Roberts: 01:45:01

And also, they have a little, maybe I'm making this up. Don't they have like the little the little guys that pop up out of the ground?

David Geisler: 01:45:10

The little guys that pop up out of the ground.

Kady Roberts: 01:45:12

That help you? Am I making that up? They're like little badger looking people?

David Geisler: 01:45:15

Well, that's Skyward Sword only.

Kady Roberts: 01:45:17

Okay. So the Skyward Sword's, 1. Okay.

David Geisler: 01:45:20

Dungeon yeah. Fire Temple area. Yeah. You might be you might this happens to me sometimes. You might be playing too many Zelda games at once, and then sometimes I accidentally conflate memories of 1 game into

Kady Roberts: 01:45:28

another. I couldn't remember, because that is also one where they help you getting Gorons. So

David Geisler: 01:45:34

Yeah. And I felt like Skyward Sword was referencing Ocarina a little bit when they did that. This dungeon for me does have some really fun proper geometry puzzles, proper mazes. You know what I mean? Sometimes it's the firewall mazes.

David Geisler: 01:45:46

How were you with, running around the tower to get the the was it the arrows in that one? No. It's the hammer.

Kady Roberts: 01:45:52

Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:45:53

That how did you do in that room, the hammer room?

Kady Roberts: 01:45:55

I think I did good. It's the one

David Geisler: 01:45:56

where you run up on a spiral, and it's very, very difficult. You have to do the narrow part. And if you miss, you fall all the way down to the main room.

Kady Roberts: 01:46:02

I did fantastic on those.

David Geisler: 01:46:03

Okay. Cool. I'm happy to hear that.

Kady Roberts: 01:46:05

So good on that one. I I thought that was a breeze. Cool. Yeah. I really liked the fire temple, Pardon my, like, one memory conflict, but I do remember.

Kady Roberts: 01:46:15

I really enjoyed it. I loved all the different levels and kind of figuring out, okay. This clearly shows, like, a trap door above me. So at one point, I'm gonna have to come up there, do something, and come back down. And this, I can't go up the stairs here yet, but if I go up around, then I can pull this out of the way.

Kady Roberts: 01:46:31

I really liked it.

David Geisler: 01:46:32

100%. That's I was about to say a similar thing that this is one of the first dungeons in my opinion that I mean, Forest Temple had a little bit of verticality, but this one really had you thinking about the different I think there's, like, 5 floors in this dungeon.

Kady Roberts: 01:46:44

It's crazy.

David Geisler: 01:46:44

And the fact that you smash a pier a a pyre to fall down to the 1st floor to do a thing so you can go another area. Tons of fun.

Kady Roberts: 01:46:51

I love it. I loved it so much. The fire temple I feel like the fire temple in almost every Zelda game, if not every Zelda game that I've played, has always been really solid and really fun to play for me.

David Geisler: 01:47:00

That's cool. How did you feel about the dragon battle at the end?

Kady Roberts: 01:47:03

The dragon battle was fun. I thought it was neat. Challenging.

David Geisler: 01:47:05

Yeah. A little bit of whack a mole.

Kady Roberts: 01:47:06

Yeah. A little bit of whack a mole, which I, am a huge fan of. I know I like just getting to hit dragons over the top of the head.

David Geisler: 01:47:13

That was another one where in the intro cutscene when the dragon comes out and flies around, I 100% was like, there's no way. There's no way to fight this thing.

Kady Roberts: 01:47:20

Because at the point in time, obviously, you you know in the back of your head you're gonna use this hammer. Yeah. But when you see it come out, you're like, okay. I have my girls. Like, what am I gonna do against this thing?

David Geisler: 01:47:31

Yeah. Yeah. And it is I remember once he started popping up out of the holes, I was like, oh, okay. Okay. A lot less scary now.

David Geisler: 01:47:36

A lot less scary now.

Kady Roberts: 01:47:37

But that first minute, you're like Yeah. What am I doing here? Mhmm. Just leave.

David Geisler: 01:47:42

Totally true. Well, let's move on to the water temple.

Kady Roberts: 01:47:46

Uh-huh. I

David Geisler: 01:47:47

I was someone who I'm I I wouldn't say that I loved the water temple the first time I played it, but I never had a problem with it. I kind of enjoyed

Kady Roberts: 01:47:55

I love water puzzles. Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:47:55

I love the whole, like, raise water up so you can go somewhere, raise it down. Super Mario sixty four had a puzzle like that, level like that. I I think that's just a really fun way to, navigate 3 d space. It really gets you thinking vertically. And I just realized maybe the whole all the vertical puzzles in the fire temple are maybe that's by design that you're kind of ramping up the the the your contextual awareness of a of a dungeon is getting more and more needed

Kady Roberts: 01:48:17

Mhmm. As

David Geisler: 01:48:17

you go through these dungeons. They're getting more difficult in that way. Yeah. The water dungeon famously designed by, Eiji Aonuma, the the now head of the Zelda games. Yep.

David Geisler: 01:48:28

He did a couple of the dungeons in Ocarina of Time. He was a co producer, and then he got Majora's Mask as the main director. That was his first proper Zelda game. Awesome. But in the beginning for Ocarina of Time, he was he was set up for dungeon design, and he probably obviously with the team, but, like, he did the water temple.

David Geisler: 01:48:43

So he's really known for these puzzle box dungeons. A puzzle box dungeon is the idea where the entire dungeon is a puzzle. Yeah. You gotta remember what's in this room to change a thing in that room to move that thing around. Fire temple has a little bit of that with the knocking the piers down and stuff like that.

David Geisler: 01:48:57

There was a level or 2 in Link's Awakening, I actually knew, had nothing to do with it that I felt were kinda puzzle box type dungeons. So I know that everybody talks about water temples being the hardest, and I think they can be and are. I remember the first time I played it. Sometimes you just keep looping through the dungeon until you find the thing you need to find, and that's a lot of maybe wasted time. There was a couple differences with this one.

David Geisler: 01:49:21

I mean, it's famous at this point, but in the original Nintendo 64 version, to put your boots on and off, you had to go into your pause menu and unequip them and then go back out. So anytime you wanted to go up or down, you had to go pause, turn the boots on, turn the boots off, go back in. And very smartly, this version just maps them to a button, essentially. I think they are an item, essentially.

Kady Roberts: 01:49:41

Yeah. They they operate exactly like an item.

David Geisler: 01:49:44

I love the meme where it's like, Link wears iron boots, sinks to the bottom. Links takes them off and puts them in his pocket and can race to the top.

Kady Roberts: 01:49:50

That is very funny.

David Geisler: 01:49:52

And also there was a lot more graphical cues, in this water temple. I noticed that there was, like, colored paintings on the walls to kind of help you see the circuitry of where the different switches were and what water level they would take you to.

Kady Roberts: 01:50:06

See, you're smarter than me.

David Geisler: 01:50:07

Well, none of that was in the first one. It was just blue walls everywhere, and you just kinda had to remember the tunnels

Kady Roberts: 01:50:13

That's cool.

David Geisler: 01:50:14

The first time in the Nintendo 64 version, rather.

Kady Roberts: 01:50:16

Yeah. I didn't have an issue with this water temple, surprisingly. Yeah. Because I will say it was the hardest one for me Yeah. Still.

Kady Roberts: 01:50:27

The complexity of the fire temple is about where my brain stops working. But I didn't have too much of an issue figuring things out. I had to refer to the walk through a couple times Sure. When I'm, like, I'm missing a key, but where am I missing it from type thing.

David Geisler: 01:50:41

And there's that super fun one where you actually have to get it while you're half sinking down. There's that middle spot, which is cool.

Kady Roberts: 01:50:46

One of those things. Yeah. It's, like, one of those things where it's, like, okay. I have everything except this one thing. I have to backtrack and figure out which one I'm missing because I can't remember which ones I got.

Kady Roberts: 01:50:55

Yeah. But the Amoeba, the boss fight with the Amoeba, which you say you claim was so easy compared to the original version, way nicer, that thing, I have a vendetta against.

David Geisler: 01:51:09

The Amoeba didn't didn't was it just because the hook shot kinda trails behind? Or what was it?

Kady Roberts: 01:51:14

I was having a lot of issues grabbing it with the hook shot, and I kept grabbing it. And then it would, like I don't know if it would glitch or wouldn't come all the way, and it would fall right back into the water.

David Geisler: 01:51:23

If it hits the side wall, it does fall back into the water.

Kady Roberts: 01:51:25

Yeah. I kept struggling with that. And then I over and over. And it took me so long to beat this thing. And when it was done, I got to the point where, like, I wasn't even, like, yippee.

Kady Roberts: 01:51:35

I won.

David Geisler: 01:51:36

I was just, like, thank

Kady Roberts: 01:51:37

god. This is over. Nothing against, Eiji Anuma. Eiji Anuma, if you're listening, I love you very much. You did a great job.

Kady Roberts: 01:51:44

I'm just not the greatest with these kind of things. Water levels always give me a little bit of issue with the bosses.

David Geisler: 01:51:50

I think and hope that you'll enjoy the water temple in Twilight Princess. It's a nice mix of the 2 where there's some water going up and down, but there's also you're not just always trying to float through some kind

Kady Roberts: 01:51:58

of Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:51:59

Liminal 3 d space. The things are informed, and it's kinda cool. I hope you enjoy it.

Kady Roberts: 01:52:02

Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:52:03

It's a little more like waterfall y. It's more like, oh, move the waterfalls to do different things and try the princess, which is a lot of fun. But, yeah, this one's cool. And, I have no idea if Eiji Aonuma actually did the boss design, come to think of it. You know?

David Geisler: 01:52:14

There could be entire teams that just do the the boss designs.

Kady Roberts: 01:52:17

But, the the dungeon itself, very solid. I really enjoyed it.

David Geisler: 01:52:24

Yeah. Absolutely. Wanna do Shadow Temple? Yes. We're skipping some of the little tiny temples.

David Geisler: 01:52:28

I just looked at my notes. We're skipping the ice cavern. We're skipping the bottom of the well. There are other little moments, but we have gone a little long in this episode. So Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:52:34

But I wanna talk about Bongo Bongo. Spirit temple. Let's do it. Spirit temple was

David Geisler: 01:52:38

like spirit or shadow?

Kady Roberts: 01:52:40

Shadow.

David Geisler: 01:52:40

Shadow. It's your shadow temple.

Kady Roberts: 01:52:41

Shadow temple was my favorite temple.

David Geisler: 01:52:43

By the way, allegedly, I don't think I've ever done this, but allegedly, you can play the spirit temple or the shadow temple in either order.

Kady Roberts: 01:52:49

Really?

David Geisler: 01:52:49

Mhmm. I think a lot of people go to shadow next because the story kinda leads you there. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:52:53

But I

David Geisler: 01:52:54

think there's nothing stopping you to go to spirit. But anyway

Kady Roberts: 01:52:56

That's kinda cool. Mhmm. Yeah. No. Shadow temple, by far my favorite.

Kady Roberts: 01:52:59

I think it was very creepy. The vibes were, like, really good. I like the constant, like, dropping. Like, if you do something or go the wrong place, you can drop down to that breeded area. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:53:10

I like the creepiness of it. And then especially the final boss with Bongo Bongo. He's my favorite boss. He wasn't hard, but he was fun.

David Geisler: 01:53:18

This was the origin of the kind of big hands boss that starts happening in Zelda games. It's the first time we got one of those. A lot of people feel that tonally Bongo Bongo didn't really match the aesthetic of the dungeon, but I don't know. He's a trap spirit. And one thing is close I would disagree.

David Geisler: 01:53:32

Well, please, I'd love to talk about it. I would did wanna say one thing that I think is neat is that in the music, and our some of our listeners have pointed this out in the past, you can hear the drums come in and out sometimes, which is neat.

Kady Roberts: 01:53:43

No. I see, where I would disagree with that is and this might just be me, not speaking truth and just referring to Demon Slayer, the anime. But, if what I've seen in this anime is correct in Japanese folklore, a lot of spirits are tied to drums and tied to these kind of this kind of music, and, like, changing in these liminal spaces. And so seeing Bongo Bongo, my mind instantly just clicked. I'm like, oh, this is a big, like, Japanese folklore spirit playing these little drums, messing me up.

David Geisler: 01:54:15

Oh, interesting.

Kady Roberts: 01:54:17

So I I don't know. For me, totally, I feel like it fit in very well with everything else in the dungeon.

David Geisler: 01:54:22

I love the hover boot thing. I thought it was cool.

Kady Roberts: 01:54:24

Very fun.

David Geisler: 01:54:25

I thought that it was it was really well balanced in that cool you can walk further, but while you're walking, you're kind of walking with ice mechanics. It's, like, slippery Yeah. Which is a really nice balance of the thing. You don't it's not just like a magic wand of a of a bridge that brings you somewhere. You still have some, some control.

David Geisler: 01:54:40

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Technical ability. And then, of course, how it helps you when the drums are bouncing is really, really fun.

David Geisler: 01:54:45

Mhmm.

Kady Roberts: 01:54:46

No. I yeah. I I could talk about Shadow Dungeon. I love that thing. With especially with the lens of truth that you get.

David Geisler: 01:54:52

Yes.

Kady Roberts: 01:54:53

Being able to see all these different things that aren't there, which even the dungeon to get the lens of truth was really fun. I don't know. Everything about that, I just really enjoyed it.

David Geisler: 01:55:01

Well, basically.

Kady Roberts: 01:55:02

I think so. Yeah. I'm checking my

David Geisler: 01:55:03

notes here. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:55:04

Yeah. And that was another one where you could, like, fall through if you weren't, like, looking carefully enough or get grabbed by things.

David Geisler: 01:55:11

That's right.

Kady Roberts: 01:55:12

Yeah. I I love when Zelda gets to, like, delve into the creepy side.

David Geisler: 01:55:16

I am accidentally mixing this one with spirit. Is this which one is the one that has, like, frankly, like, the torture machines and stuff? Was that this is that the spirit temple?

Kady Roberts: 01:55:26

What do you refer to as the torture machines?

David Geisler: 01:55:27

Like the big spinning blades and stuff. No. That was this one.

Kady Roberts: 01:55:29

Yeah. I think that was this one.

David Geisler: 01:55:30

Yeah. Because you have to use the lens of truth to see where they are sometimes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 01:55:33

No. This one was insanely well built.

David Geisler: 01:55:36

Well, also maybe yeah. I guess maybe some of it was changed. I have to I have to go back and do, like, a shot for shot. But I remember in the 64 version, there was, like, literal blood on the ground and stuff like that. There was, stock stockades where you could see, like, torture devices where people were.

Kady Roberts: 01:55:51

See, I think they might have changed it. I don't remember that.

David Geisler: 01:55:54

Maybe they pulled some of that down.

Kady Roberts: 01:55:55

I wish they kept it because I love that tonal darkness.

David Geisler: 01:55:59

I'll do a little more research. When I was I remember when I as I was playing, I was kinda thinking, okay. Yeah. This is the thing. This is the thing.

David Geisler: 01:56:04

But, the where that comes to from a lore point of view, it's a little dark. And I don't know if it's fan fiction or fan theories or actual lore, but I think it's been kind of confirmed

Kady Roberts: 01:56:14

Mhmm.

David Geisler: 01:56:15

Is that this is where previously the the reason the Sheikah have such a difficult time with Hylians

Kady Roberts: 01:56:22

Mhmm.

David Geisler: 01:56:22

Is because a little bit with the Breath of the Wild storyline, as the Sheikah became more powerful, the Hylians, admired them but also feared them.

Kady Roberts: 01:56:31

Yeah.

David Geisler: 01:56:31

And so this is where they would this is where the Hylians would torture the Sheikah, and that's why the Sheikah split into their own society. And if you take the birth of the wild storyline, that's why some of the Sheikah get really, really mad and become Yiga.

Kady Roberts: 01:56:43

That is fascinating.

David Geisler: 01:56:45

So the Hylians in general, like, you know, it's a little bit dark, but if you go into the Hylian history for Ocarina of Time, it's thought that this was a place where, you know, not good acts were were were were done were performed on the Sheikah.

Kady Roberts: 01:57:01

Yeah. And that goes back to what I was saying about what I love about this game is them actually talking about, like, foreign policies, but, like, actual, like, politics between the kingdoms. And Hylia is a kingdom. Like, there's they aren't always good. And I feel like breath didn't fully touch on that.

Kady Roberts: 01:57:21

It was, like, under the surface of your, like, why is this one kingdom ruling over all of them?

David Geisler: 01:57:25

Yeah. There really there weren't other kings.

Kady Roberts: 01:57:27

I mean,

David Geisler: 01:57:27

there's kind of the king Zora, but even that's

Kady Roberts: 01:57:29

like chiefs.

David Geisler: 01:57:31

The Zoras are famously always kinda off doing their own thing. And by the way, I earlier, I said that Zoras were an invention for Ocarina of Time. Technically, the the sea Zoras were.

Kady Roberts: 01:57:41

But

David Geisler: 01:57:41

there's river Zoras in the Super Nintendo game, and there's technically, river Zoras in the very first Zelda. But there is, like, a Zora's river in the Super Nintendo game.

Kady Roberts: 01:57:48

And

David Geisler: 01:57:48

so in some ways, going up Zora's river in Ocarina was like a kind of a callback to that.

Kady Roberts: 01:57:53

I will say going up the Zora's river in Ocarina was a great experience. I really enjoyed it.

David Geisler: 01:57:57

Yeah. It's a full on adventure. It's so cool. You're kinda figuring out water if you can walk through these different water depths. And then when you go back as an adult and some of the stuff that was, like, thick water that would sweep you away is just up to your ankles, and it's no problem at all.

David Geisler: 01:58:08

Yeah. That was all cool. Alright. So let's do our final let's do our final dungeon. Get how did you do getting through the desert?

Kady Roberts: 01:58:15

Getting through the desert.

David Geisler: 01:58:18

Yeah. Because it's called the Gerudo stuff. Right?

Kady Roberts: 01:58:21

Oh, yes. Thank you. Yeah. So getting through the desert Lens of truth. I'm sorry?

David Geisler: 01:58:27

Use the lens of truth, don't you?

Kady Roberts: 01:58:28

I think so. My brain is so scrambled by this part.

David Geisler: 01:58:33

So I often blur these 2 dungeons together. Yeah. Like, I just played them. But I'm,

Kady Roberts: 01:58:36

like, trying to think about this dungeon. I'm gonna be so real with you. I remember Twinrova.

David Geisler: 01:58:42

Mhmm.

Kady Roberts: 01:58:42

I I really enjoyed them. They're my favorite song probably in all the Zelda games.

David Geisler: 01:58:47

The one one standout is I really enjoyed that, there was portions of the dungeon where you actually go outside of the the statue. You go on from hand to hand, jump from hand to hand, Yes. Yes. Yes.

Kady Roberts: 01:58:55

Bring some

David Geisler: 01:58:55

of it back.

Kady Roberts: 01:58:56

This is bringing it back.

David Geisler: 01:58:57

You're helping there's the one Gerudo that she needs your help getting through the dungeon. This is the one where you actually have to go back as a kid and go back and forth. And I know why I'm having a hard time right now. I did not play them in the sword. I did the Gerudo dungeon before the shadow dungeon

Kady Roberts: 01:59:09

No kidding.

David Geisler: 01:59:10

When I played even just most recently. I think I've always played it that way. So I was looking at my notes, and I was trying to go with the flow here. Uh-huh. And I was trying to be like, yeah.

David Geisler: 01:59:15

Yeah. Cool. That's the next one. But I was like, I don't know if that's the next one. That's why I got confused, you know, about Lens of Truth.

David Geisler: 01:59:20

I always play spirit temple first, and then I do shadow last.

Kady Roberts: 01:59:24

Okay.

David Geisler: 01:59:24

I I don't know. But, anyway, yeah. Go to shadow. Help the Gerudo.

Kady Roberts: 01:59:32

Yeah. I mean, there's so much to say about it. Right? Like, you go through. You get the little mirror shield thing, which is kinda cool and it is really fun in the boss fight with the twin rova.

Kady Roberts: 01:59:42

It's the

David Geisler: 01:59:43

first time they're kinda doing, like, light. Oh, no. Maybe there was some light in the Super Nintendo game. But anyway, let's keep going.

Kady Roberts: 01:59:48

Yeah. Being able to, like, kind of reflect their own elements back at the other one Mhmm. To, like, kind of fight. You got the epic theme for them. I cannot express enough how much I love it and how excited I was to hear it again in Majoras.

Kady Roberts: 02:00:03

But yeah. It is How do

David Geisler: 02:00:04

you feel about Kotaki and koume being Ganondorf's mothers?

Kady Roberts: 02:00:07

I love I was just about to bring that up. It's such a fascinating, like, thing to think about of, like, did they did is he adopted? Was he spawned somehow? Was he made with magic and that's why he is the way he is? It's like but it's also one of the things, it's very clear that they care very deeply for him.

Kady Roberts: 02:00:28

And there is that love there. So it's kind of this weird twisted thing going on of like they're trying to protect their kid and also trying to make him the ruler, but that's not good. And then you get this big fight with the 2 sisters, and it's fun. It's really fun.

David Geisler: 02:00:46

I remember when we did our first Ocarina of Time episode, Kate, my cohost from back then, pointed out that it was a little weird that the witches, when they die, they have halos, and it's implied they go to heaven.

Kady Roberts: 02:00:58

Oh, I forgot about that.

David Geisler: 02:00:59

I don't actually think I think that that iconography does imply that. I don't think that's what Nintendo was thinking about. I think Nintendo was just thinking, like, yeah. This is the symbol for death ghosts. You know what I mean?

Kady Roberts: 02:01:09

Oh, yeah. Because you don't want to, like, animate them going down. That's a little a little dark.

David Geisler: 02:01:15

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 02:01:16

But I you know, I can subscribe to that theory of them going to the the great beyond, whatever the Hylians believe Okay. The goddesses beyond. Because you know what? They were just trying to do what they thought was best for their son. And they Alright.

Kady Roberts: 02:01:29

They were, trying to protect him.

David Geisler: 02:01:31

Well, speaking of their son, let's, talk about, you know, having the rainbow bridge be complete and going to Ganon's castle.

Kady Roberts: 02:01:37

Yeah. So Ganon's castle was really cool. I love all the different sage rooms you have to go through.

David Geisler: 02:01:44

Yes. Okay.

Kady Roberts: 02:01:45

That was so fun and so cool.

David Geisler: 02:01:48

Wow. Cool. I did not love that part. Yeah. I feel like Ganon's castle kinda starts weak and then picks up.

David Geisler: 02:01:53

But but let's talk about all the different rooms. Let's do it.

Kady Roberts: 02:01:56

Yeah. I there was something about the fact that, you know, you go in the circle, and it kind of implies to you that you wanna do, like, the shadow and stuff kinda last because they were you kinda go in the order that you played them in almost.

David Geisler: 02:02:08

You kinda go left to right.

Kady Roberts: 02:02:09

Yeah. And each one, it was like you're going against the enemies and in the, kind of geography of where you were. They all feel like their own little self contained mini dungeons.

David Geisler: 02:02:22

And they re they do remind you of the mechanics you used in those dungeons. You have to use them again and stuff like that.

Kady Roberts: 02:02:26

Yeah. And it's like a really good, final review or refresher before going against Ganon. But, yeah, there was just something about being able to go back and replay through the because I chose, like, the best parts of those dungeons.

David Geisler: 02:02:41

Yeah. That's true.

Kady Roberts: 02:02:42

Them. So getting to do, like, a last hurrah of, like, oh, yeah. This this was all that I've done so far.

David Geisler: 02:02:49

Yeah. I forgot to mention the wind mechanic too with the hover boots is cool, which this there was definitely in this the little room for this in this castle, which I thought was kinda cool.

Kady Roberts: 02:02:57

Yeah.

David Geisler: 02:02:57

So then we're we're starting to go up. We fight some dark knots or dread knots, dark dark knots. We get to the we get to the staircase.

Kady Roberts: 02:03:06

Mhmm.

David Geisler: 02:03:07

I don't know. Thoughts, feelings?

Kady Roberts: 02:03:09

I was excited and nervous, because I didn't know how hard the battle was gonna be. Then I went up, and I was like, oh, this was easy. And then he dies, and I'm like, that was it. Did you know

David Geisler: 02:03:21

you did you know that Danon was coming?

Kady Roberts: 02:03:24

I didn't know he was coming back.

David Geisler: 02:03:26

You really did. That's awesome.

Kady Roberts: 02:03:27

I I beat it. I was like, oh.

David Geisler: 02:03:29

Maybe that's what what games were like

Kady Roberts: 02:03:31

that day. I was like, that's kind of anticlimactic. Maybe that's just how it how it was. I don't know. You know, you get Zelda.

Kady Roberts: 02:03:36

I was like, okay. Let's finish the game. And then he comes back. And I was like, I knew I knew there had to be something more that was way too anticlimactic of an ending. And then you do the second fight,

David Geisler: 02:03:46

and

Kady Roberts: 02:03:47

it's way harder Yes. And way more intense. And then you finally beat him. And I'm like,

David Geisler: 02:03:52

now I am satisfied. I love the castle falling apart, Zelda helping you through the doors going down. Maybe that's when you actually fight the the Dreadnoughts. But, anyway, it was the first time in a video game for me where there was kind of like an action set piece where things were being triggered as you ran. Yeah.

David Geisler: 02:04:08

And you kinda did feel like they put the timer in there. If you really just keep moving, it's very easy to get down in, like, 3 minutes or whatever it is.

Kady Roberts: 02:04:14

So stressful, though.

David Geisler: 02:04:15

It did. I know. It's great. It's so much fun.

Kady Roberts: 02:04:17

It's really cool.

David Geisler: 02:04:18

And then you get down. Okay. The whole castle falls. Everything's done, And then we get the famous shot. At this point, it's the famous shot from this game when Pig Gannon and he's technically Pig Gannon,

Kady Roberts: 02:04:28

if you

David Geisler: 02:04:28

look closely, does his, like, double ax, arms out kind of pose, and you don't even see him. He's in silhouette. The lightning flashes behind him, and it just says, you know, and it just says, Ganon.

Kady Roberts: 02:04:41

That was, like, the epic moment for me. I just got chills. The epic moment for me of, like, going out to Ganondorf, But this is Ganon. This is the spirit that has been haunting you through the games. And that's why he's in this, like, original pig form.

Kady Roberts: 02:04:54

He's in all this it's so good.

David Geisler: 02:04:57

I think he's a I think he has 4 legs. I think he's a little bit of a Like,

Kady Roberts: 02:04:59

he's he becomes a monster.

David Geisler: 02:05:02

Yeah. Yeah. Man. Another one of those where I was kinda like, I don't know what the heck I'm gonna do. You know, in the beginning, there's a lot

Kady Roberts: 02:05:08

of depressing.

David Geisler: 02:05:08

Running around and trying to get away from those big blades. And you kind of say, maybe I can get around behind him. You start slowly figuring it out. But, oh my gosh, the and his eyes glowing.

Kady Roberts: 02:05:18

Everything at him. I'm like nothing is working. I don't know what to do. I'm panicking because he's got such a long range and does so much damage. And you're trying to dodge and trying to, like, learn his move set.

Kady Roberts: 02:05:28

But then as in most Zelda games, once you get him down to a certain amount of health, then they switch to phase 2 and phase 3 and whatnot. So then you have to completely relearn and figure out what you're doing. It was so fun.

David Geisler: 02:05:39

Mhmm. We also have Zelda helping out a little bit with the light arrow. This is the first time that kinda happens.

Kady Roberts: 02:05:43

Yes.

David Geisler: 02:05:44

I think you're gonna very much enjoy how Zelda helps with the light arrow in Wind Waker when you get to that point.

Kady Roberts: 02:05:48

Oh, I'm so excited.

David Geisler: 02:05:49

She helps in a different way slightly different way. Yeah. And then and and there it is. I mean, there's I mean, there's the game and then, of course, the ending. We go back in time and all the rest.

David Geisler: 02:05:58

There's there is not a Link, thank you for saving me, the princess of Zelda.

Kady Roberts: 02:06:03

She doesn't know.

David Geisler: 02:06:04

Yeah. She

Kady Roberts: 02:06:04

doesn't even know what happened.

David Geisler: 02:06:05

Well, as a kid, but even even as the adults, I kinda went back. Oh, one thing that's a little weird that I think Celeste and I pointed out a few years ago is that the cutscene at the end is a little loosey goosey with the lore. Mhmm. Like, the Kokiri are outside of the forest as part of the celebration.

Kady Roberts: 02:06:20

Yes.

David Geisler: 02:06:21

There's a few things that are I think there's one thing that implies that really shows you that the all the Guardians probably are dead because they're, like, up on a hill looking down. Yeah.

Kady Roberts: 02:06:31

You know,

David Geisler: 02:06:31

but it's I don't know. I don't know. I was just so excited to see all the characters together and celebrating that. As a kid, certainly, I didn't even consider all of those lore implications.

Kady Roberts: 02:06:38

I was gonna say what I saw, I was just like, oh, I haven't agreed to them. They're all alive. But, yeah, now that you bring it up. But I think that also might go towards what we were thinking with the Saria saying goodbye to Link when he leaves. Maybe they can leave and maybe they just they don't because of, like, growing up and the Deku Tree is, like, don't do it.

Kady Roberts: 02:06:58

Like, it's against the rules type thing.

David Geisler: 02:07:00

Maybe they they grow if they leave.

Kady Roberts: 02:07:02

Yeah. If they leave. If they

David Geisler: 02:07:03

stay it's perfect. It is never Neverland, isn't it?

Kady Roberts: 02:07:05

Yeah. It's it's Neverland. If they leave but if they come out for the celebration, go back. They're still kids. But it's that moment for Saria where she, like, she knows what's gonna happen.

Kady Roberts: 02:07:14

She's like

David Geisler: 02:07:15

Well, another little fun fact about lore is if it's at least if you go if you follow the manga of Ocarina of Time, if any and I think actually this is true in the game if, I'll say, a Helion or humanoid or human goes into the forest, they actually die. They actually can't survive in the forest. And there's a few there's a few references of that in the lost woods where the the the sad guy with the sad man that you see for a while, he ends up passing away and he becomes a tree, stuff like that. So you die and become a tree. There's a whole another story line where Link's mom this is all, like, part of the the manga.

David Geisler: 02:07:52

I

Kady Roberts: 02:07:52

need to read this.

David Geisler: 02:07:53

Link's well, maybe we do I don't honestly, we've never done this yet, but I I have some here. I've got

Kady Roberts: 02:07:56

I was

David Geisler: 02:07:56

gonna say There's Majora's Mask. There's actually there's actually a time right there. And the Twilight series, we should start doing, like, reviews of the books.

Kady Roberts: 02:08:04

Love that.

David Geisler: 02:08:05

So Link's mom brings him there's a battle. The dad goes off to battle, and Link's mom brings him to the forest. She's fleeing. She doesn't know what to do. The Deku tree says, it's fine.

David Geisler: 02:08:14

I'll put a spell on him. He won't die here. But the mom does grows into a tree and some feel that that is Link's house.

Kady Roberts: 02:08:24

I love that. I love that.

David Geisler: 02:08:26

I don't think the manga explicitly says that the tree that becomes his tree house or whatever is his mom, but but in the manga, which is lore adjacent, which is canon adjacent. It's Yeah. It's kind of considered canon, but you know what I mean? Like, Nintendo

Kady Roberts: 02:08:39

every Zelda game.

David Geisler: 02:08:40

Well well, there's all that too. Yeah. But anyways, all the things. We it is it has been now an hour for this half of this episode.

Kady Roberts: 02:08:47

Goodness. This is gonna be a long one.

David Geisler: 02:08:48

We it is impossible for this this podcast to have an episode about Ocarina of Time that is not 2 hours long is what I've realized. It's just absolutely impossible. Even our music episode was super long when we did it. Maybe we'll have to do another one. But, anyways, just to keep things moving because we are also, from a production point of view, recording our echoes of wisdom Yes.

David Geisler: 02:09:07

Episode tonight, which will be our 2nd episode of the season. I can't wait to talk about it. Any any final takeaways or final thoughts about finally let me phrase it phrase it this way. I'm kinda setting you up here. I understand.

David Geisler: 02:09:19

But, like, hey, as someone who only saw, Star Wars 7, 8, and 9, and now you've gone and you've seen Star Wars 4 You know what I mean? Like, what was it like for you to finally experience, not even necessarily the best Zelda game. I think it's absolutely up there. Everyone has the right to think whatever Zelda games are, good, bad, or otherwise, but certainly the one that really is the core of the of the franchise, the one that really set up a lot of the staples. What was that experience like for you?

Kady Roberts: 02:09:46

Well, someone who still needs to watch Star Wars. Oh my god. I know. I didn't know that was gonna kill you, so I had to put it in there.

David Geisler: 02:09:52

You're like, I don't episode 8. What are you talking about?

Kady Roberts: 02:09:54

Yeah. I'm like, I I yes. I follow.

David Geisler: 02:09:57

I'm so sorry. But you know what I mean? Like, this

Kady Roberts: 02:09:59

is I I do. I do. I'm just playing with you.

David Geisler: 02:10:00

You know, 20 20 Zelda games out there, 25 Zelda games out there, depending on how you count the remakes and stuff, this is the this is the one. This is the one that Yes. In in many ways started it all as far as, like, the what the what the actual what a Zelda game is.

Kady Roberts: 02:10:13

Yeah. I will say it has completely changed the way I not only play Zelda games, but how I play games as a whole now and the sense of actually taking the time to appreciate all the small things, sitting down and reading all the dialogue, feeling the story, kind of putting myself into the game and taking good time with it and learning to be more patient without limit with the game but also with myself. And, yeah, it just kind of gave me an overall new appreciation for Zelda games. Because after beating Ocarina is when I went to Majoras, Wind Waker, and Echoes. And all three of those games, I never had that initial issue getting into.

Kady Roberts: 02:11:02

Yeah. All of them, I jumped straight in and I found myself when I was playing Wind Waker sitting and slowly reading through all the dialogue and starting to really fall in love with the characters right from the get go. And so, yeah, Ocarina has done a lot for me, I think.

David Geisler: 02:11:16

I think that in another 10 years, Breath of the Wild will probably be kinda considered a quote, unquote ocarina in that it was the next time the franchise really took a step in a different or really kind of redefined itself. And I I feel that Breath of the Wild is a very special game for that reason, but Ocarina was the first time that happened for the franchise.

Kady Roberts: 02:11:33

Oh, it's huge. And it was one of those things when we started at the beginning, I had no clue it was the 5th game.

David Geisler: 02:11:39

I know. I know.

Kady Roberts: 02:11:40

Because it it feels so good. It plays so well. It looks amazing. So it for me to hear it's the 5th game in the series, I'm still thinking, okay, this might be clunky. This might not look the best.

Kady Roberts: 02:11:50

But it was incredible.

David Geisler: 02:11:51

Maybe what we do maybe we do for towards the end of this season is is one of our episodes

Kady Roberts: 02:11:56

Mhmm.

David Geisler: 02:11:56

Is we have you just hear me out. We have you with the Nintendo 64 controller. Just at least play maybe the first 3 gems or something. There are the, you know, the first 3 spirit stones on NSO, with with the, quote, unquote, bad graphics, the original graphics. Because you said it's still a beautiful game, and you're absolutely right.

David Geisler: 02:12:15

And I honestly think that there that Grezzo did a phenomenal job kind of redoing the graphics. Mhmm. By the way, the Grezzo's version of Majora's Mask is almost Twilight Princess level graphics. The Majora's Mask graphics are wonderful, all the, like, trees in the background. Mhmm.

David Geisler: 02:12:30

The Nintendo 64 version, it's more like a wall with trees painted on it. There's no actual trees. You know what I mean? Mhmm. Just as an experiment.

Kady Roberts: 02:12:37

Not not I would love to.

David Geisler: 02:12:38

That I would want you to say, gosh. This is so ugly, but just to, have even to even further your palette of

Kady Roberts: 02:12:45

of what Ocarina

David Geisler: 02:12:45

of Time can be.

Kady Roberts: 02:12:46

No. I would love to do that. I

David Geisler: 02:12:47

think we do it. I think we throw you on a Nintendo sequel. We don't make you play the whole game or anything. And I could I could even replay the first three stones again.

Kady Roberts: 02:12:54

Okay.

David Geisler: 02:12:54

And, well, you know what? I just thought of something, and we'll get let's finish this episode up. I'm also working with, a streamer. His name's Steve, and he has never played a Zelda game. And he and I have been having meetings for the past couple months.

David Geisler: 02:13:09

I I don't even have his YouTube channel memorized right now, but we are gonna have him play through Ocarina of Time, Nintendo 64 version. He's gonna stream it as a as a AZP partner, and then I'm gonna have him on the show to talk about it. That's cool. It's gonna be towards the end of the season. He's gonna be playing this for the next 5, 6 months.

David Geisler: 02:13:28

Months. Mhmm. What if we also have you on that episode and we'll just have you at least play the first 3 dungeons? We could Oh, I would love that. Figure this out 6 months from now.

David Geisler: 02:13:36

Yeah. You know what I mean? But if the 3 of us could talk about it and and have a have an informed conversation from 3 different points of view, I think that would be phenomenal.

Kady Roberts: 02:13:43

No. I would love that.

David Geisler: 02:13:44

Cool. Cool. Well, I'm so happy that you now have this in your brain, this game in your brain. I'm so happy that in a weird way, you've been experiencing the references in reverse. That's actually kind of a really cool, weird magical experience.

David Geisler: 02:13:59

Yeah. Cool. I certainly enjoyed playing it again. I enjoyed it in 3 d. I I did.

David Geisler: 02:14:05

It was kind of fun to see all these areas that I had always experienced just on a television screen kind of in 3 d. It was super fun to see a spiritual stone pop up on the screen and kinda feel like it was actually sticking out. I could almost touch it. I I was in. I I did like it.

David Geisler: 02:14:20

I was less inspired by the button layout, but probably because I'm just so in love with the 64 button layout because that's what I've been playing for the past 20 years. But I do think that Gresham made the right choices and interesting choices bringing it to the 3 d s.

Kady Roberts: 02:14:32

Absolutely. I agree.

David Geisler: 02:14:34

Cool. Well, there it is. Katie, let's, let's wrap this up. And you're you're hosting the next one. You're hosting Echoes.

David Geisler: 02:14:39

Yes. And you've played the whole game.

Kady Roberts: 02:14:41

I played it. I got it the day it came out, and I played it within a week.

David Geisler: 02:14:46

Within a week. I am 3 dungeons in. So I've I've done Okay. I'm I

Kady Roberts: 02:14:49

will not spoil anything.

David Geisler: 02:14:50

You know, and we could talk about this on the episode. I'm cool if we talk about some things, but, but I'm basically I think I'm through, like, the first act. I'll well, I'll save it for the episode. Cool. Let's get out of here.

David Geisler: 02:14:59

Katie, have a great, couple weeks. I'll see you in a few seconds.

Kady Roberts: 02:15:03

Yeah. I'll see you.

David Geisler: 02:15:03

Alright. Everybody, thank you so much. You can find another Zelda podcast on X and Instagram and Facebook and all the things just by searching another Zelda podcast. We're another Zelda pod on X. We're another Zelda podcast on Instagram.

David Geisler: 02:15:13

We don't yet have a TikTok, but I think I'm gonna build 1. Days. And I'm gonna start putting video content out on that as well as doing our Instagram reels and other YouTube shorts and all that. I think it's gonna be a lot of fun to take little excerpts from our episodes and and share them in that way. Also, if you really just the easiest thing to do is just go to another Zelda podcast.com where you can find links to all the services where the show comes out.

David Geisler: 02:15:34

And, also read a couple blog articles we've got up there and just see the other 6 seasons of this show. This show started at the end of 2017 is when this show started, Katie. How? And now we're kind of we're kind of in our 3rd wave right now here with you as this this this staple of a cohost. I'm really looking forward to season 7.

David Geisler: 02:15:50

I can't wait. And, thanks for being here.

Kady Roberts: 02:15:53

Where can I find you, though, David? Oh,

David Geisler: 02:15:57

you can find me on on, insta all the all the things. I'm Raptor Paint. I'm just Raptor Paint on all the things.

Kady Roberts: 02:16:02

There you go.

David Geisler: 02:16:03

And if you if you're inclined, I also make another show called Returning Student. I've talked about it on this show in the past. You can find that on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and all the places. And then this kind of weird, artificial intelligence podcast that I'm doing, called an artificial podcast. Even the name of the show is a bit of a joke because it's like, is it a podcast if one of the cohosts is a computer program?

David Geisler: 02:16:24

And so I'm kind of deconstructing how podcasts work. I'm deconstructing how human nature works. I'm trying to deconstruct how computers

Kady Roberts: 02:16:34

might think. And, and we

David Geisler: 02:16:34

go in both directions. We talk about the pros and cons of AI, including the amount of energy that AI consumes from a from a natural from a global point of view. Mhmm. We actually have one episode that's literally titled environment, and we talk about, like, what that what it's doing, you know, what AI is doing on a from a physical point of view to the Earth. But, anyway

Kady Roberts: 02:16:49

That's awesome.

David Geisler: 02:16:49

An artificial podcast. I'm having a ton of fun making it. We'll probably do a second season, but there it is. Katie, where can people find you on the Internet?

Kady Roberts: 02:16:55

I don't got much. You can find me on Instagram at mind of kady, k a d y, or my website kadiroberts.com.

David Geisler: 02:17:01

Is could you wanna what what when can they listen to the show you're you're that you're, working on as a producer for Iheart?

Kady Roberts: 02:17:06

Oh my god. Yeah. If you can't if you're not in the Chicago area and can't tune in, you can download the Iheartradio app. I am on well, I'm working for rock 955, FM. Like, it sounds they play rock music, and they play, from 6 to 10 Chicago time.

Kady Roberts: 02:17:25

It's the Angie Taylor morning show, and it's a blast. I highly recommend you tune in.

David Geisler: 02:17:28

Yeah. It sounds like a good, like, driving to work kinda show.

Kady Roberts: 02:17:31

Yeah. It's so funny. Everyone on it is amazing.

David Geisler: 02:17:33

I will I will look forward to checking it out.

Kady Roberts: 02:17:35

Yeah.

David Geisler: 02:17:35

Awesome. Alright, Katie. See you in the next episode. See you.

Kady Roberts: 02:17:48

You.