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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over:
Speaker 2:Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Okay. We need to talk about something we have experienced three different times this year. I think it's more unsettling and shifty than that, but it feels like I can think of three specific examples this year, maybe more if I really started brainstorming. The first time I started noticing it was when we were trying to talk about relationship things in therapy and with the husband and in real life, not because we meant to cause any problems for the podcast or for listeners of the podcast or to be confusing or inconsistent. Hello, DID.
Speaker 1:But as we progress in therapy, the question becomes, how do I, whoever I am in now time, include and embrace the pieces of me or parts of me or aspects of me from memory time or in my system those experiences and integrate not people, I'm not trying to get rid of anyone, but how do I include all of me in now time? How do I make space for all of who I am in now time? This gets really tricky for me because I don't know about everybody else, and I can't speak for anyone else. I'm only speaking for us. But for us, our life has been set up in such a way that what I I don't think it was even intentional, but I can look at how parts of us set up our life, which makes sense.
Speaker 1:It makes sense. I get it. But set our life up to be as safe as we could get it to protect the most pieces of ourselves based on what we've already learned. Right? And so I talked about this.
Speaker 1:I think I talked about this maybe with Shana's, but when I was in a relationship as a young adult and it was terrible and I learned what was terrible about that, then in the next relationship I was in, it was safer because I made sure it did not include that terrible piece. But there were other terrible pieces. Right? And so I climbed my way out of domestic violence really one relationship at a time. And this is so hard and so difficult and scary and really was painful because, like, there were some people like, I really love people.
Speaker 1:Right? Like, I I'm an all in kind of person, and it is really hard to be all the way in with so many parts and then have that taken away from you or have that be violated by it not being safe. And it's so painful even when it's with other people's trauma, and so they are just trying to take care of themselves as well. I don't even mean every person I ever dated was bad. Like, this is not that kind of show, you guys.
Speaker 1:I just mean as I progressed and as I learned and now find myself in a very safe light that is good and beautiful in all these ways, but also now addressing new layers like religious trauma that we're starting to get into and all these other layers of things going on, how do we include that? And, again, maybe that's just easier language. Think we've talked about this already. Maybe that's just easier language for us because of our hearing loss or because of the special needs of our kids, and they still say special needs. I know.
Speaker 1:I know. I've heard about it, but that's still what they say, and I'm respecting their language. With their disabilities and their needs, which are human needs. Right? So learning to apply that to myself and think, okay.
Speaker 1:If I'm human and part of being a human is having needs, and so therefore having a right to have my needs met, what does that even look like? How do I accommodate for those needs? How do I meet those needs? How do I tend to those needs? And how do I include all of me in that?
Speaker 1:Even with seasons of love, that's all I meant to be saying is I'm recognizing this and I'm recognizing this and I'm recognizing this. What do I do about it? How do I tend to it? Okay? So when we started having those conversations, it was the first time we kind of experienced some blending and what I mean by that.
Speaker 1:I know there's lots of different kinds of therapies and lots of different experts who all mean different things. And so I'm not, like, touting any specific thing. But what I mean by that is the kind of co consciousness, if you will, but also I hate that word too. It's really hard to talk about these things when we're rejecting all the words. So part of that's a personal problem.
Speaker 1:But the first time I really started feeling that is with this. If I'm holding space inside myself, we together are holding space with each other, there's this blending that happens that can get kind of blurry where you're feeling this and that. And I don't just mean trying to see between the black and white or see the gray or hold space for both or hold pieces of both or hold both at the same time, I mean experiencing and presenting and feeling and sharing what it means to be in the body, to think, to feel, to be alive, and what is that? Because it is like therapy in three d. I don't even know what to tell you.
Speaker 1:But that's when I first started noticing it was at the same time as all these big questions were coming up of how do I include all of me and how do I respond to all of me in these ways. The second time it came up was in the context of relationship where specifically we kind of had the same goals about something and we're trying to share something and trying to experience something and how do you do that? The same thing is happening with the children as we try to be so I guess that's another example. But as we try to be present with them as they are older now, and so it's less about, like, cutting their food and tying their shoes and all this subservient ends kind of stuff that is subservient was really rude. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:I mean that service she offers the children as a parent and a good enough mother. Can I say that? Is that overly fake? But as we try to, like, help develop these adolescents, there are things that part of me knows about social skills or adolescence that is not about tying shoes or cutting their meat. And so trying to hold presents for let's care for the children and also I have the skills for what you're looking for for that developmental age because I am that developmental age.
Speaker 1:How do we put that together and offer this to them, especially when especially when we did not have a parent ourselves at this season of life, which is the whole reason we've been talking about eighth grade in therapy. Like, who wants eighth grade to be their starting place in therapy? Well, we needed it to be as a matter of survival for parenting these outside kids. So that's where we have started. It's what we've been working on.
Speaker 1:But that brings up the most recent time, which we referenced and talked about a little bit in the previous episode, was how this moment in, I don't know, memory work or whatever, like during eye movements, during therapy, when talking about this moment in the principal's office, but also reaching out to that part of me from now time, staying in now time, but going into memory time and tending to that part of myself or to that experience or to that memory, whatever way you wanna say it, and not just bringing them into the present, which is kind of what we were trying to do before that I think maybe was too much, but to tend in presence. This part needed a hug. This part needed presence. This part needed help. This part needed tending to.
Speaker 1:And to not just work through shame and not just work through sadness or anger at the injustice of it all, not just work through the overwhelm of being so lost on that on our own as a child, but also to then experience the tending that we ourselves are giving ourselves. Does that make sense? Like I don't even know how to talk about it. So because it's a thing and I'm not even sure I want to talk about it out loud because I don't want anyone to mess it up. I don't want trolls or haters or therapists who don't know better or listeners who don't understand or don't like it or plurals who don't want me to do it.
Speaker 1:Like I don't want any pressure from the outside so I waited all this time. Like at the time of recording this it is the very August and I don't want anyone to mess it up. So I've waited all this time to talk about it all year and then there'll be more time before it airs because I need to solidify my own experience before letting everyone rake the crows over me. Wait. You don't rake crows.
Speaker 1:What do the crows do? I can't remember what the crows do. Anyway, whatever you do with the crows, please don't do it to me. And so I want to I want to be really careful here. I want to be really sensitive.
Speaker 1:I'm only talking about my experience. I'm not talking about what you should do or need to do or ought to do or what I think is best. I'm only talking about my experience that has happened over the last year very naturally and without prompting or effort and accidentally even if I can say that. Does that make sense? So that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:I don't know how else to describe it, and I am reflecting on the last year. So I'm not even like, oh, this is something I want to do. I don't think it is something I want to do. Scares the living daylights out of me. Okay?
Speaker 1:It makes me super nervous. I feel super dysregulated about it except that because of it we have been able to do things and experience more than we ever have before. And so in that way, it feels good and right, especially because it is my brain doing it to itself. Medicine, my brain is offering myself. It is not someone or something externally that is being forced upon me.
Speaker 1:Does that make sense? So I wanna be very clear about that. But I only recently heard the word blending, and I don't know what you mean by that, but this is what I mean by that because I have learned about it. So because of that, I wanna learn more about that. So I am going on the Internet, which is where everything is.
Speaker 1:You guys don't believe anything on the Internet. Okay. So if we go to did/research.org, they have a lot of information with references, which is why it's one of the places I like to look if there is something specific I need to look up. And on their website, they have a page that's called switching and passive influence. And in that page, it talks about coconsciousness a little bit.
Speaker 1:And what it defines coconsciousness as is both people or alters or parts, whatever words you wanna use, choosing to remain at front or actively aware of the outside world even after the switch. What? So then it's also talking about how it's really important to be consensual about that, and you can undo it when you need to undo it. So that's interesting to know. So I think so just this little piece, I feel like, is partly helpful because part of what has happened is I think we're just as we communicate and cooperate and collaborate, I feel like we are in some ways starting to get on the same page about things.
Speaker 1:And these may be small things. Like, for example, that we do have friends. We have said for so long, we try to have friends, we keep messing up with friends, or we don't have friends, or no one wants to keep us. And it has felt like that for a long time. But also, even though it's messy, I don't think it is true anymore because now we've had enough years with enough people who are still our friends that I feel like that's something valid we can say is that, oh, even when we mess up or even when we make a mess of things or even when we're still learning or even when I have terrible social skills, we are still friends.
Speaker 1:And the evidence of that is consistent enough, long enough, that I think we're starting to believe it. So that is one piece we can be on the same page about even though it's new or hard. There are other things we have gotten on the same page about in ways we never have before. So for example, one is that what doctor e, as you call her, works too much, and I don't like work, I hate work, and I've always been against the work, sometimes made work very hard for her. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Okay? But, also, this summer, because we lost that contract and are waiting for the new one to start in September, we have not had work. And at first, I was like, this is the best summer ever. And let me tell you, I had fun this summer, and that's all I'm gonna say about that. But by the end of the summer, also, like, my phone was cut off because you have to pay the phone bill, and you need work for that.
Speaker 1:And if you wanna start a community and keep it going and everyone else in the community is a survivor like yourself and no one has money, not because we're bad, but because of this system of trauma and the ways that that impacts you even financially that no one even talks about. Like, none of us have the resources, so it puts the community at risk. So okay. So what I learned is that even though I don't necessarily like it, I am on the same page about that she needs to work because I like having money, at least enough money. Like, I don't mean I'm a snot.
Speaker 1:I just mean I would like to be able to use my phone. I would like to be able to keep the community without people being afraid. It's going to disappear. I would like to be able to send workbooks to people. I can't do any of those things without money.
Speaker 1:I don't even have an allowance. Right? So it became worth it to get on the same page about this. But I don't mean it's that easy all the time. There are other things we are still wrestling with.
Speaker 1:Sexuality is one piece. There is religious trauma is one piece. There is parenting, like all these things. I don't mean we're gonna get rid of the children. We are not going to get rid of the children.
Speaker 1:The children are safe. Everything is okay. I promise. But I mean, like, I don't care if they go to bed and very much cares if they go to bed. Right?
Speaker 1:Like, there are things we still need to get better at being on the same page about. Does that make sense? So just because I say that we've made some progress, I do not mean to say we have it figured out. We don't. I don't mean to say that it's easy for us now.
Speaker 1:It's not. But if we could get better at it enough that we become aware of, like, even positive triggers. Right? Like, I just learned this was a thing. You can have positive triggers.
Speaker 1:So, like, Jean Marc and Salsa. Right? Positive trigger. The puppy that is beyond adorable and squishy and you can hold and loves you no matter what, that really helps with big feelings, I have found. Not that I want to admit to having any big feelings, but I'm just saying.
Speaker 1:There can be positive triggers. Right? So if we have more co consciousness or more blending or more experience or skills, I'm not saying it has to be forever, I don't mean I have to be stuck. Right? That's not what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:I am talking about consensual exploring, trying, experimenting, more sharing experiences so that I get the positive triggers too, for example. Okay? So so then I wanna know, is this actually a thing, blending, or are they just talking about it? So I went to ResearchGate because I know about that blending. Thank you, blending, from doctor e's article.
Speaker 1:And when I searched for blending, what came up, of all things, was this random list that is called, and I quote, rules for blending by Steven Frankel. K. First of all, I don't like how that sounds. Rules for blending. That just feels gross, but it actually has some helpful information.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to read you some quotes from this. It's just a few pages long. I'm not reading the whole thing, but it explains a lot, and I wanna talk about this with my therapist if we ever graduate eighth grade. So here's what it says. It says, I teach blending as a skill.
Speaker 1:I want my patients to learn how to do it and undo it so they have control over whether, when, and for what purposes to do it. Now see, I like that. I like the consent. I like thinking about it as a skill rather than as something that happens to me permanently or without my awareness. I like that I can do it intentionally.
Speaker 1:This is really important to all of us. It's one of the things that we agree on right now, that the choices we make, we wanna be intentional about them. That doesn't mean we always get them right. It doesn't mean it's not messy. It doesn't mean we're not human and won't make mistakes, but we want to be intentional in our efforts.
Speaker 1:And I like that how his rules, so to speak, are intentional. That we have control over whether, when, for what purposes to do it, and that we can do it and undo it. I will try to post the link of this article in the description of this episode. Okay? So he also says, it happens to be a skill that provides experiential learning of what fusion feels like.
Speaker 1:Now see, I think if I can get better at this, I don't even need the fusion. I really don't like fusion and integration in the words. It has become such a theme with such connotations that are intended or not intended. At this point, it's just too and so maybe I'll change my mind in the future. But where we're at, I don't even like it.
Speaker 1:I don't even need to know that this helps me practice for fusion. I just need to know that this is a skill I can develop, period. Like, full stop. Right there. Okay.
Speaker 1:So I'm gonna skip a little bit. It says, oh, well, but also that's kind of his point, that you can do this without anyone dying or disappearing or anything like that. So I get that he's trying to reassure things, so I'll accept that. But it says, blending also gives them, meaning us, I guess, those people, minions with DID, an experiential lesson in the difference between being not alone, like blended, versus being alone unblended. I guess he means internally because that's not about external people.
Speaker 1:Right? So for many who have not already had spontaneous blending experiences, this oh, so that's what we had. We had accidental. We had spontaneous blending because it happened naturally. We didn't mean to, but bam, there it was.
Speaker 1:Okay? And and he talks about how it feels more dimensional when you do that, which I have also experienced. So I'll agree with that. Okay? So then he goes down and he talks about reasons or times that that can be particularly helpful.
Speaker 1:So times he says that blending can help with problems that we face, it says like number one, for conflict resolution, when we don't have empathic connections to talk through solutions or accommodations. Oh, like they says accommodations. Oh, wow. Okay. So he jumps all in there.
Speaker 1:He's talking about parts that love your caregiver and also are endangered by your caregiver or parts who are loyal to your abuser and parts who have been hurt by abuser. That is way too much than I'm ready to see, so be careful with that. But for me so if I just take the information from that and then don't read any more that he wrote because that was that got too much too fast real quick. So please, if you look up this article, be careful. It's from 2006, by the way.
Speaker 1:If ah. Ah. See? Okay. That was a lot.
Speaker 1:I really wish I had not even laid eyes on that. Okay. Let me just wave you my hands in front of my face trying to shake that off for a minute. Okay. So a more neutral example for me is like the work situation.
Speaker 1:I have no empathy for her that she needs to work when I wanna have fun and play. Right? But at the same time, I have since learned empathy for myself who does like to have an allowance to be able to play. Right? Like, now, I can't even go get my kale drink down the street to get some vitamins in me and feel better in my body so that I could play if I wanted.
Speaker 1:Like, I get it now. Right? So that is an example of empathy. Well, maybe it's not an example of empathy, but it's an example of cooperation. So in that way in that way, I can feel it.
Speaker 1:So we're just gonna go with that for now because the idea of empathy with those who have been I oh. Oh. Wow. That leveled up faster than I was ready to go. So I'm just gonna come back down on the elevator, drop it a level.
Speaker 1:Okay? Okay. The second time it can be helpful, he says, is establishing teams of alters for the purpose of solving life task. Oh, that's what he's talking about. So in this example, church molesting.
Speaker 1:Too much. Okay. This is why it's for clinicians and not for people. I can't even read the examples. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:We're talking about that exact kind of thing in therapy right now, and I just can't even life tasks. Okay. So let's go back to neutral. For life tasks, that's the example I was thinking about with, like, oh, okay. I need something super safe.
Speaker 1:Jean Marc. Jean Marc. So Jean Marc likes to eat and does the cooking. So M and Jean Marc could blend a little bit to do some cooking and also enjoy the eating instead of one having to cook and one getting to eat. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:We're just gonna keep things super simple. You guys, this is like a level three phase 5,000 article, so be careful if you read the article. That's all I'm gonna say. Okay. So it talks about how sometimes we can't do tasks because we're used to it being someone else who can do that.
Speaker 1:So so in this case, you can use blending to get the tools you need to accomplish whatever needs to be done without losing yourself or losing presence or even having a full switch with you gone. You can just stay, get it done, that information is part of you, and then either keep that or unblend it. That's up to you. Right? So then classic to the rest of us.
Speaker 1:When he talks about how to approach talking about this, he gives the example of The US space program and the Soviet space program and how they had to work together to accomplish the International Space Station. And sadly, that feels like it's kind of falling apart in the sky right now. So I don't know if even that would work. And that's so sad, really so sad. But then he says there are some things about blending that are nonnegotiable, and I actually like this.
Speaker 1:Number one, it has to be consensual. If one or the other says no and you can't figure out, like, why their objections are or if you can meet those needs or negotiate that, then you cannot do it. It is not something to force or to make happen. And nonnegotiable rule number two is willingness. You've got to want to do it and be willing to do it.
Speaker 1:And he says, quote, no one gets dragged kicking and screaming into a blend, end quote. And I think this for us is exactly why we have not really experienced this until this year. Now I will say we have for longer than that, since everything fell apart with our previous therapists actually, we have stopped saying who was on the podcast. Now some of you just know, and if you know, you know. That's okay.
Speaker 1:But we have stopped saying in the descriptions or on the website who was in which episodes because we want to get better, and reinforcing roles of who does what makes it harder to do things like blending. And I don't want more of us more separate. We want to heal, and that includes not ignoring what everyone is good at. Like, I'm not gonna fake that I'm really good at doctor e's job. That's not gonna happen.
Speaker 1:But I will tell you I make her presentations more interesting. So rule one, nonnegotiable consent. Rule two, nonnegotiable willingness. So there you go. He also recommends that when you're talking about blending intentionally, that you leave anything that is toxic or traumatic behind.
Speaker 1:Like, you pause it, you fold it, whatever it is you do, which makes sense that it's not like a level one phase one kind of skill. Right? Because you have to be able to pause it. Like, if you're watching a movie and you use the remote to pause it, you can do that with really hard memories, but it takes practice. It's another skill.
Speaker 1:Right? You can also contain it, like put it in something and wait until another time or for therapy. We use a folding where we literally use origami or other things and fold things up and put it in the container like an actual container. And so it's like real folding and real container because we need it to be that tangible for some parts of us. So we've learned that kind of in a phase two sort of way, more advanced skills, but also more simple too depending on how you're looking at it.
Speaker 1:We just really it was important to us to include our body as part of the process. So we wanna do it in a tangible way and so do actual folding in an actual container. So, basically, you've gotta be able to do that before you can do this intentionally because you're not bringing the trauma and the toxicity and the terribleness of it together. You are bringing healing and skills and tending to. That's what's coming together.
Speaker 1:Does that make sense? So that's my understanding of what he's talking about in that part. Then he talks about, like, really literally walking someone through it. Now my experience of blending is not this because he was not our therapist. That doesn't mean that doesn't work or your therapist couldn't help you with that, especially if this particular guy uses some hypnosis.
Speaker 1:And so if that is helpful, then do what is helpful. But for us, it was just a spontaneous thing and a natural thing. So we didn't feel all of these steps or experience that. So that kind of ends with that, but this is what we're talking about, this new experience of working together intentionally and how and when do we want that to happen more. There are also boundaries for that.
Speaker 1:Like Kim says, you don't need to be talking about your sex life on the podcast. Okay. I get it already. Okay? Finally, it took me a year to learn that lesson, but now we know.
Speaker 1:Okay? So I can unblend that and not do that here or be intentional about it because I'm having the boundaries between. Right? That's why it's all of us. It's not a going away.
Speaker 1:The part of me that knows Kim taught me that can also help the part of me that just runs my mouth in the public on the podcast. So blending that together gives me the skills to be more socially appropriate. So there's that. The other thing that I found that I went to immediately when I wanted to know more about a word was pluralpedia, which has a lot of very specific information, and their entry for blending is pretty short but that's okay. It makes sense.
Speaker 1:It says quote, and I put this link in the description as well, but it says quote, blending is when the boundary between headmates becomes blurred, and it can be hard to tell them apart or even who is present. This can happen to the active fronters or to anyone else who is coconscious at the time. So for me, I'm only speaking for me, I don't think blending is the same as coconscious, but I don't think you can blend without without being coconscious. Does that make sense a little bit? So I don't know what this looks like going forward, but it's something we're trying out a little bit here and a little bit there.
Speaker 1:Like, how do you want to mix things up? When would it be helpful to mix things up? Is it something even others are interested in? And at the same time, it makes me really curious. So for example, we have this whole phobia about littles, right?
Speaker 1:And I don't even know if phobia is the right word. I guess it is, avoidance for sure. But also, Molly is the one that tends to them inside. So if I don't wanna deal with littles and just let her do that, that's fine if that's what keeps me safe. But also at some point in therapy, or if there were some reason in real life, I don't know, I mean, I don't wanna know, that's the avoidance part.
Speaker 1:Right? But if it were ever useful for me to have to interact with the littles like, for example, I will tell you something that is motivating me is that learning about reenactments and realizing me abandoning my own littles is doing to them what was already done to me, except it makes me the perpetrator. Right? I don't wanna be the perpetrator. So how can I tend to my littles without being overwhelmed?
Speaker 1:Because it is so hard and it is so scary. But that's when blending with Molly might work. Except that also freaks me out in other ways that makes it weird, but maybe it's not. I just need to negotiate some things with her and talk to her about some things. So we need to stay in therapy for that.
Speaker 1:But do you see what I'm saying? So I don't know what that looks like going forward. I don't know what that looks like for you. I don't even know that I'm recommending anything specific, but I wanted to actually define it and talk about it out loud because it's happening whether I want it to or not, like, naturally in a way that does not feel bad even before I'm trying to do it intentionally. But I do wanna be intentional about it, so it's going to be something we continue to explore.
Speaker 1:So that's why I wanted to share that with you, and I hope that made some kind of sense because it feels like an awful lot to me.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for listening to us and for all of your support for the podcast, our books, and them being donated to survivors and the community. It means so much to us as we try to create something that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing.